Feeling like an idiot

>>1108952
Layout technique depends on the parameters of the number and spacing. I'd use a drill press to actually drill the holes once they're marked and punched.

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>>1108952
In metalworking, we use a rotary table

>>1108952
are you asking about how to mark the holes or how to actually drill them?

>>1108956
How to mark them

>>1108960
So how many do you want to mark, and how do they have to be arranged?

>>1108960
>>1108962
Also, what are the tolerances?

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>>1108952
What the fuck OP

>>1108963
>plywood
>tolerances

>>1108964
Did you even read the OP?

>>1108965
If it didnt matter somewhat OP would have just winged it

>>1108962
I need to make holes the entire way round. The circumference of the circle of holes should be ~120 inches, so 60 holes roughly 2 inches apart. Not certain what you mean by tolerance.

>>1108968

Tolerance is the accointable allowance of inaccuracies.

Ehh, OP here, I think I have a solution. If I drew the circumference of the hole-circle and just used a ruler to mark every hole 2 inches apart, that should work. But since the circumference is a curve, not a straight line, the holes would be shorter than 2 inches around, right?

>>1108970
Then I guess tolerant enough that it would appear symmetrical to the naked eye.

>>1108968
Circle has 360 degrees. You have 60 holes to make. That gives you 6 degrees per arc. Print out on a paper a circle with a 6 degree sector. Put it on the center(literally) of your plywood. Take a ruler and extend the radi of the circle onto edges of your plywood. Now you have a 6 degree arc on your plywood. Mark the edges. Borrow a compass from some highschool kid. Take a measure between those marked points on edges of your plywood. Continue to mark you plywood around 58 times. Connect the marking with the center if necessary.

>>1108968
>Not certain what you mean by tolerance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_tolerance
How precisely do the holes have to fit a circle? How much can their linear or angular spacing vary?

>The circumference of the circle of holes should be ~120 inches, so 60 holes roughly 2 inches apart.
Use a compass to draw a circle with a radius of 19 3/32". Then use the compass to construct a regular hexagon, the corners of which will mark every tenth hole. Mark the midpoints of the hexagon's sides and draw lines through those marks connecting the center to the circle, which will now have every fifth hole marked. Get a smaller compass and set it to 2". Mark four additional evenly spaced points between each of the twelve marks. For extra accuracy, work your way from each direction and split the difference. Poke each mark with an awl, and drill.

>>1108974
>>1108973
Not op but jesus
I never learned this shit in math class

>>1108975
360 degree in a circle is like really really basic maths

did you go to school at all?

>>1108980
It's very common for Americans to go to school, graduate, and never learn a thing. Granted math education is abysmal, but most people regard it as the realm of smart people and nerds of which they aren't.

>>1108981

The biggest downfall of the American education system is they insist on teaching the imperial measuring system then expect people to flourish and move into engineering on that basis.

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>>1108975
How to construct a regular hexagon: the way you probably won't find in YouTube videos, but which will minimize errors if you're not that good at construction:

So you have the circle drawn, and the compass is still at the 19 3/32" span. Pick a spot (any spot) on the circle and mark it (we'll call this point A - if it helps you keep track, you can mark it on the plywood). Pivot the compass on that spot to mark two more points on the circle (these will be 1/3 of the way around the circle from each other, points B and F). Pivot the compass on B to mark another point a third of the way around (D), which should be directly across from A. Pivot the compass on F and mark D again. If you did it right, the two marks will cross exactly on the circle. If they don’t, put a mark in the middle and use that as D. Using the same procedure, use points B and D to mark point C between them, and use F and D to mark point E between them. If you did it right, you now have six marked points on the circle that form the corners of regular hexagon ABCDEF (the points should be in that order as you go around). Draw lines to see the hexagon.

Now measure the sides of the hexagon (they should be 19 3/32”) and mark the midpoints. Use a straight edge to draw a line from the center of the circle through each of the midpoint marks to the edge of the circle. The twelve marks now on the circle are the positions of one fifth of the holes to be drilled. Now set a compass to 2” and make four evenly-spaced marks between each adjacent pair of those twelve previous marks.

Any questions?

>>1108983
I don't know about that. Most of the people here failed out because they were wasting time on math. Instead of learning new concepts in physics, chemistry, biology, etc. and then learning to apply them in engineering courses, they devoted a lot of time to math. This is because they didn't have a solid foundation before starting. So instead of applying new concepts in calculus, they would be making algebra mistakes and end up confusing themselves. With each sequential math course, they would just get progressively worse and all their other coursework went to shit. It would really help if students were taught math with proper rigor instead of dumbed down plug and chug because the physics department can't be assed to have their precious students' time wasting with making sure that their math is sound. Honestly, formal logic and proofs should be taught in high school. Even Princeton offers their first analysis course for freshmen with the option of no proof based mathematics. The state of math education in the US is embarrassing. It would be like the English department allowing their students to use pictographs, smoke signals, semaphores, etc. if they didn't know how to read or write.

>>1108952
If you already have the piece cut as circular, then:

1) Wrap a tape around it (or cut a piece of rope, but be careful of stretch)
2) Measure out how long the tape or rope is
3) Divide that measurement by the number of holes you want to drill
4) Wrap the tape back around the edge and mark off your increments
5) If you have an even number of holes, you can draw diagonals that pass through the center of the plywood. This will give you a diameter and you can measure mark a place to drill a hole along any radius.

If you're really concerned with precision, then there are all sorts of things you can do, but this is quick and dirty and it'll get you close.

>>1108973
>>1108974
>>1108985
>>1108989

Thank you all for the advice, not sure yet which of these methods I'll use. I'll have to go back to my shop and stare blankly at my project until inspiration hits I guess.

>>1108952
nigga you best be staring at a clock until it hits you

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>not being able to do basic math, algebra, or use a protractor

>>1108964
This is the correct answer

>~120 inches, so 60 holes roughly 2 inches apart
This would be about 6.26 inches apart
(120 * PI) /60

Since you haven't decided, I'll use 64 holes because it's easier to get accurate
-First draw a line all the way across, through the center (I'll call this 0 and 180 degrees)
-measure to check
-using dividers, measure from where the lines intersect the circle to the 90 and 270 points, draw a short arc.
-visually verify the marks at both places look the same
You now have it accurately divider into 4 quadrants, now you have to divide the quardant into 16 parts
-divide each quadrant into 2
-keep dividing down until you have 64 divisions
This method is kinda self correcting too, if theres an error, it will show by marks looking different when you divide it further.

I used to layout large bolt circles in steel flanges for a living, and this is the ONLY way to do it accurately by hand.

This is similar but a little different. They went outside the circle for more accuracy but doing that makes it harder to visually verify previous marks when making further divisions.
>http://www.lsirish.com/tutorials/woodcarving-tutorials/woodcarving-fundamentals-techniques/working-with-your-patterns/dividing-a-circle-relief-wood-carving/

Also, with a 10 foot circle, you'll have to use a tape measure instead, or make a large divider with a piece of wood with holes in it or something.

>>1108973
This is the only one that is going work. OP can choose his own fate

>>1108968
>all these retards
>all this math

OP mark out your circumference at a radius of 19.1" or 485mm if you dont have a decimal inch scale.

You have a circ of 120" now.
Pick a point. Mark it.
Now use a ruler and find 2" on it. Mark.
Repeat.

This will work because you need to subtend your circumference into 60 arcs with a length of 2" each.

>b-b-b-but anon! You're marking the two inches off with a fucking straight edge, not a curved edge!!!
Well, pull out your law of cosines and find out what the base length of an isosceles triangle is with hyptonuses of 19.098" and an angle of 6 degrees.
>1.996"
FUCKING CLOSE ENOUGH

>>1108983
Well, it's started, I'll take the bait...

So you're saying pi centimeters is a neat, easy to find or figure measurement, as opposed to pi inches? System of measurement really doesn't matter here, anon.

>>1108983
Whats the radius of a circle with a circumference of 120"?
Whats the radius of a circle with a circumference of 120mm?

>>1109051
>This is the correct answer
The fuck it is!
120*pi/60?

The OP wants the CIRCUMFERENCE of the circles to be 120", not the radius you fucking putz

>I used to layout large bolt circles in steel flanges for a living
>used to
Figured out why you were fired

>>1108981
>Granted math education is abysmal

Sent my kid to a Catholic school. At the end of the first semester, his math scores had increased markedly. I asked him what it was about that school that had made the difference. He said, "When I walked in on the first day and saw that guy nailed to the plus sign, I knew they took their math seriously."

>>1109073
>FUCKING CLOSE ENOUGH
Sure, if you want the last gap to be off by a quarter inch GRANTING THAT OP CAN REPRODUCE SIXTY MEASUREMENTS TO WITHIN A THOUSANDTH OF AN INCH. There are reasons to bother with geometric construction.

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i can't believe you retards still doing rocket science on this

>>1109137
Copied so I can tell this story in the future as if it was my kid.

>>1108952
> feeling like an idiot

It's not just a feeling :^)

>>1108983
The biggest downfall of the american education system is that there are no set standard curriculums from state to state.
Common core is supposed to be that, but its been battered, beaten, and diluted down to where its damn near useless. Then the people who destroyed it yell and scream that its shit and it should be revoked. Fucking politics

I passed high school never learning one bit of algebra. Im now just learning menial algebra in college because I was a shithead and didnt take it.

Ive talked to others about it, and a few came from states requiring several years of algebra to pass high school.
Its a total crapshoot.

Yet you try and force better curriculum requirements on kids in mississippi, people will yell and scream about muh regulations and muh big government.

>>1109141
No. 12 evenly spaced out holes are marked out first. Then the 4 in-between are marked using this method.

>>1109166
>Common core is supposed to be that
instead it is basically "hey let's try and make a new way of teaching math that's so over complicated that even parents with a college education cannot understand it let alone the kids"

>>1109259
>country has had decades of piss poor math education
>using new visceral methods that make sense in the real world is somehow bad

The kids dont have problems learning it. There is increased comprehension and SAT scores attributed to it.
But oh no, the parents who havent touched a math problem in 20 years have a problem with it so its bad!

Lets go back to our antiquated ways of teaching that have been shown to have poor results!

>>1109259
Also you have to understand they did not usurp the standard repetition and memorization of math. Its still there.
They just added a hand on visceral way to visualize the math using a number line and such.
Its literally just another tool to help those understand what they are learning. Its not some big crazy change that nobody can understand.

It boggles my mind that people complain about it

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>>1109055
the one solely using a compass
>>1108974 (this one)
will work too and it will work better.

You will not need a printer, you will not need to run 60 (inaccurate) lines with a ruler from a center that OP will probably shift. And for the printer method you will need a compass too so why not do it right in the first place.

With the hexagon method you will divide your inaccuracies among the points and it is easy to see when you will make them in the first place. It also allows for a varying number of points on the circle although certain numbers will be easier than others.

Also, OP make a compass, pic related.

>>1109263
>The kids dont have problems learning it.
but they do, I had to try to help one and I could barely make sense of what it was expecting them to complete

>>1109259

>dumbshits spreading the "new math" meme

Lemme guess, you saw a Youtube video of "My kid's crazy 3rd grade math homework!!" and thought that was muh Common Core? Go do a bit of research and dispel your ignorance, please.

>>1109341
>I could barely make sense

Huh, wonder why the kid wasn't doing well when his teacher didn't understand what he was teaching!

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>>1109278
One could probably cheat using one of these. But OP seems pretty potato, so he'd probably not be able to figure it out

>>1109359
>when his teacher didn't understand what he was teaching!

This is one of the big issues with common core stuff, since it isnt a federal law and werent allowed to make an official curriculum just a set of guidelines, incompetent teachers fuck it up for the kids.

Though it might just be that math isnt always easy and it takes effort to learn for everyone. Not because the learning methods in common core are bad.

>>1108983

That doesn't affect trigonometry/geometry, fortunately.

Take the circumference at the diameter you want the holes. Divide the circumference by the amount of holes you want. Mark a point anywhere, then set your calipers to the divieed measurement. Finally use your calipers to mark each consecutive point. You guys are making this way too complicated..

>>1109408
How similar are these metric triangles?

>>1109407
I think the biggest issue with common core is that it's trying to be standardized in a field where different people learn and do things in radically different ways. Some things from CC make sense when dealing with large numbers, but are pants on head retarded when dealing with normal day to day math. Some people just learn things better by memorization, and some don't. Having any hard standardization in education beyond basic grading/scoring is retarded.

>>1109358
no....the homework said common core something right at the top

>>1109359
not a teacher

I only had to try and help because the teacher did such a bad job of trying to explain their madness

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>>1109359
>Huh, wonder why the kid wasn't doing well when his teacher didn't understand what he was teaching!
I don't think you understand. The actual course material is incomprehensibly stupid. For example...

I've a god damn PhD, it took me 5 minutes to figure out what this question wants.

>>1109432
I invite yo to look at these sample problems...
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2629356/Satans-handiwork-Parents-rail-against-controversial-Common-Core-math-standards-confusing-frustrating.html

In response to the failures of some they rewrote the entire curriculum to be this incomprehensible garbage to make it easier somehow.

>>1109432
I saw my cousin's homework, it was like dots and lines and shit and you had to circle groups. Basically drawing out normal math I guess. When I tried asking about it he said I was wrong though. Then he got uppity so I let him read my algebra book and he gave up to go play.

>>1109432
that took me forever to comprehend. this is concerning.

>>1108971
Better solution:
Draw a circle of radius equal to the desired distance of the holes from the center. This circle is centered.
Choose a point on the circle to start
Draw a small circle around that point of radius equal to the spacing of the holes (as the crow flies)
Go to the point where that small circle intersects the big circle
That point is a drill spot. Repeat the process starting at that new point.

>>1109422
>different people learn and do things in radically different ways.
>. Some people just learn things better by memorization, and some don't

This is literally the whole reason common core was created. The visual and hands on learners fail hard in math memorization.
Suddenly you give them a tangible sort of context of how and why and it makes thing click.

15 years ago those kids would have just been C or D math students who just barely got by.

>Having any hard standardization in education beyond basic grading/scoring is retarded.

This doesnt make any sense. You cant let a teacher pick and choose. They have to teach a whole class with different types of learners.

It doesnt hurt the kids who would excel at your normal memorization teaching methods (that are taught along side). But it immensely helps out those other kids who inherently have a tough time.
How is this a bad thing?

>>1109433
>>1109432
You havent been taught whats expected out of the questions, or the methods on how to get the answers.

This is the problem, you dont understand it because you werent taught the methods so you discount and call them stupid. Thats being wholly shortsighted.

>>1109447
>Basically drawing out normal math I guess.

Its visually breaking down numbers, showing how and why different operations work as opposed to just teaching the memorization of those things. When they finally do get taught the standard memorization methods, it makes it click in the heads of the visual learners who otherwise would have struggled.

>>1109450
You shouldnt expect to comprehend something you were never taught. Its extremely easy and understandable once you understand whats going on.

>>1109432
Took a few minutes to figure that out because I view 10's as complementary pairs of arabic symbols organized at an 80 degree incline to the horizontal as opposed to horizontal rows of 5.

Also it's counter intuitive to make the 14 white (negative space) and the 8 black (positive space).

It looks to me that the curriculum was designed to be taught with coloured blocks and shit. Common core can't be forced because there are so many ways to "get it". You can tell kids how to think about these "shortcuts" but not how to visualize them.

>>1109433
Instead of clickbait with the title "satans handiwork", how about watching a video laying out a few of the actual methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_CK1e0Lmxw

>>1109463
>Common core can't be forced because there are so many ways to "get it".

Its pretty cut and dried on what they teach and how they present it. Math on the whole is infinitely flexible, especially as you get into hig levels of math.

Whats counter intuitive is how we pretend that math is extremely rigid all the way until high school.

>>1109457
>You havent been taught whats expected out of the questions, or the methods on how to get the answers.
>This is the problem, you dont understand it because you werent taught the methods so you discount and call them stupid. Thats being wholly shortsighted.
No fuck that, this system is incredibly stupid and will definitely make kids dumber as a whole, even if it's slightly more accessible for the tard kids. It's not a reasonable way to approach math and will not carry on to real applications.

>>1109464
The problem is they teach common core as the foundation instead of a holistic way of viewing number clusters, and they show it using limited methods. That doesn't work as you said because math is infinitely flexible. Dumber kids will think that's the only way numbers work and clever kids will be told they are wrong because the teachers are forced into enforcing whatever is in the curriculum. A private school or tutor would have no problem appreciating a child's own method of organizing numbers.

>>1109457
Introducing new and frankly almost comical systems of numerical expression cannot be healthy. Math is self evident, these types of problems abstract it and then expect students to work within these artificial frameworks, the kids who already understand are held back, and the kids who don't intuitively grasp concepts are going to grow up with the equivalent of taking your shoes off to count.

>>1109464
That video has nothing to do with the psychotic visual based questions that barely translate.

>>1109468
>this system is incredibly stupid and will definitely make kids dumber as a whole

Id love for you to explain that to me

> even if it's slightly more accessible for the tard kids.

Well I guess we are a nation of "tard kids" and have been for decades. Unless you think that being around 30th in 1st world countries in math comprehension is an ok thing.

> It's not a reasonable way to approach math and will not carry on to real applications.

Its a teaching aid to help reinforce standard math memorization. Its nothing more than that.
Its like the shortcuts and tricks your teacher would teach you for a few days, and then you would never hear about it again.

>>1109469
>The problem is they teach common core as the foundation instead of a holistic way of viewing number clusters, and they show it using limited methods.

But that isnt true and this is where the big misunderstandings are. Its not suddenly the new foundation of math. Standard math algorithms are still there. These are simply teaching aids to reinforce them.

> Dumber kids will think that's the only way numbers work
As opposed to having literally no math skills at all?

>clever kids will be told they are wrong because the teachers are forced into enforcing whatever is in the curriculum.
These kids are clever, but cant read the assignment that says "use this type of algorithm in these problems" for a test?
They can read "show your work" easily enough right?

>A private school or tutor would have no problem appreciating a child's own method of organizing numbers.
Of course.
Too bad this is for general public school education that has to reach any and all types of kids from different backgrounds.

>>1109472
>Math is self evident
It can be, but treating it such a way is why there are difficulties in teaching it. And it shows when we have 20 something cashiers who cant give you the correct change.

>these types of problems abstract it and then expect students to work within these artificial frameworks
Oh, you mean like we do with algebra and every high level of math?
Abstract manipulation of numbers is not unprecedented, and introducing it young is a good idea.

>the kids who already understand are held back
These are teaching aids for arithmetic. The kids who understand it will be "held back" by their peers regardless.
This is why AP classes exist in high school once you get past arithmetic.

It will have literally no bearing on smart kids

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>>1109482
Fuck you and your fucking common core apologist bullshit.

Shove this shit down our throats like a BBC. Every school is following this not because any parents want it, but because fed funds are tied up in it.

Teachers can't teach shit, and have had a program in place to lower the quality of education since the 50s. It is literally a Russian communist plot that got out of control and got its own head.

Math memorization doesn't have to be standardized, who cares if the answers are the same.
>B-b-b-bu americans suck at math

Yeah we suck at fucking everything, that's what the government education system is designed to do. You think this piece of shit is fixing anything? Naw dawg.

>>1109234
>No. 12 evenly spaced out holes are marked out first. Then the 4 in-between are marked using this method.

That's not what >>1109073 said, which is:
>You have a circ of 120" now.
>Pick a point. Mark it.
>Now use a ruler and find 2" on it. Mark.
>Repeat.
>This will work

The "mark 12 even points, then subdivide" is here >>1108974 and here >>1108985. That construction (and the constructions mentioned in other earlier posts) seem to be the "all this math" that >>1109073 was saying was unnecessary.

>>1108952
use a printed piece of paper you dumbfuck is that so hard?

>get an enough size of piece of paper
>photoshop or any software to create a circle with equidistand points
>get it printed
>push holes on the points
>mark using marker or pencil

done you lazy piece of shit

>>1109510
>printing a 40x40 when you don't have to, and taking several times as long as just laying it out.

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>>1108985
why stop at a hexagon?

>>1109417
off by .0003"

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>>1109635
This is horrifying

A ruler and a protractor

>>1109635
>stop at a hexagon
That construction stops at a hexacontagon. What were you reading?

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>>1110192
didn't read the last sentence.
that being said doubling the number of sides on a regular polygon is a trivial matter

>>1110192
>>1110225
multiplying it by 5 isn't exactly though, but you didn't give a compass and straightedge construction for that (not that it's necessary for a /diy/ project and not some constructive geometry circlejerk)

>>1109801
gauss developed this at about 16 years of age

>>1109510
Good luck printing to scale

>>1108952
the distance, the wholes will be appart is given by
d = 2*r*sin(phi/2) [Isosceles triangle]
where r is the radius of the circle you want to divide and phi is the angle of one segment
so in this case r = 60'' and phi = 360°/60 = 6°
therefore d = 6.28''
now start at one point on the circle and mark the next point on the circle 6.28'' away from it
repeat that 58 times

>>1109486
>This is why AP classes exist in high school

Separating students by ability is racist. Also, Bubba will kick your ass if you make him look like a moron.

Cut it like you would cut a pie: Cut the circle in half from top to bottom, and again from left to right. Then keep dividing the resultant areas in two (use an angle measure for accuracy) until you have the same number of lines as the holes you want to drill.

>>1110275
"The circumference of the holes should be ~120 inches, so 60 holes roughly 2 inches apart"
>Let's set the diameter to 120 inches and find the hole spacing! Then subject the layout to measurement error times 59!

>>1110339
>2 holes
>4 holes
>8 holes
>16 holes
>32 holes
>64 holes
>Oops, too many holes, and they're too close together

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>>1108952
dude use dividers and trial and error. It's the simplest way

>>1110256
Well we can't all be Gauss.

Seriously, Euler, Gauss, Newton, and Fermat are the 4 dickheads of mathematics. Who the fuck invents a new branch of mathematics as a side project when they're away from school? Who comes up with bullshit problems like "I've got a variation on the Pythagorean Theorem and I've worked out a proof for it, too! I'll write it down later!" Who sits there and says, "I've got this crazy number e, and I've got the root of negative 1, and I have pi. What can I do with all three of them?" Dickheads, that's who. Brilliant dickheads that propelled us forward, but damn it!

The point being this: Don't compare 16-year old Gauss with your average human being. The guy wasn't just on a different page, he was in a different book.

>>1109432
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6OaYPVueW4