Woodworking Tools

>>1096406
Table saw is the most versatile and essential power tool you can get for woodworking

Get one on craigslist, dont buy a shit tier one at the hardware store.
Find a 113 or 315 series Craftsman table saw for $100-150 and youll be golden

>>1096408
Crap I want a cheaper table saw. Craftsman and Ryobi both make a $150 table saw, but they feel really unstable and plastic.

>>1096406
a saw and some glue will get you through the most basic of projects

nails and hammer optional

if you have to ask, you shouldnt buy anything, just buy when u need it

Don't compromise on the table saw. If you do, you will not be able to trust the cuts it makes, and it may frustrate you right out of the hobby.

The better ones are much more stable and accurate and have much improved rip fences.

>>1096411
Seriously, hold out on craigslist and get a good one

The 113 and 315 craftsmans have
>cast iron top
>metal body
>belt driven
And can be had for very cheap.

And be weary of other cheap shittier craftsman saws, they sold a lot of different ones. Belt driven contractor saws are the only worthwhile ones.

Itll cost you 7-800$ plus tax to get anywhere near the old craftsmans (because they were 900$ saws 20 years ago)

>>1096406
buy used (pawnshops & craigslist). buy new after you break it and only if you really use it a lot.

it takes time to build a good kit for yourself, but a table saw, a hand drill, some chisels, and a few clamps will get you pretty far.

>>1096406
Don't forget a router. Aside from a circular saw or a table saw, a router can do pretty much anything. You'll go broke once you start buying bits for it, because that damn thing is so versatile.

But the most basic of tools? Good chisels, sharp marking tools, a good tape measure, an a carpenter's/framing square. Everything in your picture is the most basic of essentials.

>>1096411
Im going to hammer the point home, because in the last thread someone posted about a cheap table saw, and of course they fucking ignored everyone and bought it anyways.

I bought a 200$ skil saw (50 extra bucks to have an extending table for larger cuts)
The aluminum top over the course of a few projects literally BENT to where I physically couldnt get the blade to cut square.

The aluminum top has some stupid grey coating on it to make it look like its cast. It actually causes friction and makes it dangerous to cut wood.
The motor is loud, it vibrates hard, and now it starting to make rattle noises when it winds down.

They dont give you long enough arbors to use Dado blades
They use non standard miter slots so making sleds is very difficult
Non standard miter slots means you can buy a decent miter gauge, you cant use featherboards or any other standard attachment.

The slots and arbor ruins the versatility of the table saw.

Go on youtube and look for table saw sleds or table saw jigs. Youll truly see how awesome a saw can be. Just realize youll be stuck not being able to do that on your crap saw.

You will regret it

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>>1096427
Pic related
These are the slots on my skil saw
You have to take an angle grinder to your brand new table top before you can even use a sled

Also see how nice and thin the whole top is

>>1096406
>nothing to cut with
>nothing to drill with
>nothing to sand with
>nothing to fasten i.e. glue/screws
Tons of shit to clamp with. Not much of a beginner kit.

>>1096406
If your table saw does not have a cast top it is garbage. Extruded aluminum and stamped sheet steel tops are worthless. It doesn't matter who's name is on it or how much you paid for it, its is shit. >>1096429 is proof of this. Do not buy table saws with

>But, but, its light and portable!"
Portable garbage.

"But, but, I got a really good deal on it!"
Congrats on throwing away $50 less than you would have.

"But, but, it does a really good job cutting plywood on the construction site, so accuracy doesn't really matter!
Hey, you found the only thing it will ever be good for! Here is a cookie!

>>1096406
>In order, what are the basic tools I need to buy to complete basic woodworking/carpentry projects.

What hand tools do you already have.
Im sure you had already figure out you probably want a router and table saw.

>>1096406
1. Marking Gauge
2. Try Square
3. Tenon Saw
4. Mitre Block
5. C clamps
6. Wood glue
7. Assorted Sandpaper

With these basic tools you can get started, I suggest looking at a good drill next. You can make a variety of jigs and clamps to get yourself through projects until you can get many various clamps.

Goddammit it my grandfather had an old craftsman table saw that nobody took when they sold the house. I didn't have any room for it at the time and the assholes that bought the place probably threw it out.

>>1096406
What KIND of woodwork? It matters. A lot.

Generic list, Minimum Version:
>Bench Top
>Sawhorses as needed (good first project)
>Tape Measure
>Square of chosen flavor(s)
>Clamps of chosen flavors
>Ripcut Saw
>Back Saw
>Set of chisels
>Marking tools (pencils, knife, etc)
>Wood glue
>Sandpaper appx 100-320 grit (preference)
>Drill and bits
>Mallet
>Sharpening stones, coarse + fine
>Safety glasses and dust mask.

Improved Version:
>flat jaw vice, bench mounted
>full selection of clamps (bar, pipe, C, hand, etc)
>Full selection of saws (ripcut, crosscut, coping, compass, back/tenon)
>Table Saw + homemade accessories (x-cut sled, etc)
>Drill Press + Forstner bits
>Circular saw
>Smoothing Plane
>Spoke Shave
>Files and rasps
>Finishing sander
>Shop Vac

DAG YO Version:
>Band Saw
>Compound sliding miter saw
>Router
>Thickness planer
>Scroll Saw
>Belt Sander
>Spindle Sander
>Card Scrapers + burnisher
>Dust Collection System
>Full selection of hand planes (Block, Jack, Trueing)
>Diamond plate sharpening stones
>Lathe
>Turbo-encabulator with nofer trunions.

GTFO NOOB Version:
>pocket hole jig

a square
dozuki saw w/ rip and cross-cut blade
a utility knife
#4 plow plane
clamps
wood glue

That's all you need to fine woodworking by hand. Google "Paul Sellers woodworking"

Why are saws so fucking expensive? It's just a flat piece of steel with some notches cut into it.

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>>1096417
>Don't compromise on the table saw. If you do, you will not be able to trust the cuts it makes, and it may frustrate you right out of the hobby.
THIS
I should have gotten a nice used table saw, but I got the second cheapest Ryobi, and it's made things very frustrating at times.
pic unrelated

>>1097714
>That's all you need to fine woodworking by hand.

...forgot...

chisels
sharpening stones

>>1097644
nothin wrong with some poket holes

I picked up the Porter Cable jobsite table saw (PCB222TS).

Space is very limited for me now so i need to save space whenever i can.

However i will second the opinions that you should get a solid table saw. While this one suits my needs i just totally ignore the cut guides on the machine and measure from the guide to the blade with a tape measure every time i need to make a new cut.

Like its just a sticker... and mine is off by well over an inch. its enough to get me into the ballpark of where i want to be but i still measure my cut to fine tune it.

After the table saw i say get a good sliding compound miter saw. Picked up a newer craftsman 10 inch one and the bit that holds the angle set knob broke the first time i used it. plastic garbage that i have to tip toe around when i want to make a cut. more stickers that dont line up. though it dose have some machined grooves for 0, 22.5 and 45 which are accurate so thats nice.

>>1096406
Skip the tablesaw. The minimum saw you want to buy us the Delta portable that is $500.

In the mean time, get a good circular saw and track guide setup.

For $150 -200 you can make a killer track saw.

Tools needed.
Hand saw
Plane
Wet stone
Chisels
Drill/drill press
Clamps ( cant hqve enough)
Vise
Router

Down the line
Band saw
Plainer
Shaper
Router table
Cabinet saw

>>1097734
Same reason properly sharpened knives are expensive. Check out saw sharpening on youtube, it is labor intensive.

>>1098279
>properly sharpened knives are expensive.
But I can buy a shitty knife at the dollar store, hone it before use, and it'll serve me just fine in the kitchen the same as a 1000$ ginsu knife would.

Why can't I find similarly shitty low-priced saws? Even shitty saws are hundreds of dollars unless it's a lucky CL find.

>>1098100
>Like its just a sticker... and mine is off by well over an inch.


If the tape measure is off by that much I don't want to know what the rest of the table saw looks like, must be a wobbly piece of shit. You did follow the instructions when putting it together didn't you? You do know you can adjust it so the marker for the fence guide.

>>1098144
Dude there's a delta for sale on offerup near me for only $60. I almost went and bought it because why the fuck not? You can still find a decent one on a budget, it will just take a few months of checking listings.

>>1097644
>pocket hole
Goddamn americans and their garbage joining

>>1096408
Why tablesaw? Why not radial armsaw? It's like you don't want to do milling and sanding operations

>>1098473
>Why tablesaw? Why not radial armsaw?

Because you cant safely rip with them, and their singular purpose can be replicated on a miter saw or a table saw sled. Not only that they are inaccurate and extremely dangerous

>It's like you don't want to do milling and sanding operations

Elaborate.
They are dirt cheap on craigslist. While I would never actually use if for its intended purpose, I might pick one up if there was some other cool shit you could do with it.

>>1098463
>when just slapping wood together everyone just glues and screws something together
>nobody cares
>you use a jig to do it
>people lose their fucking minds

>>1098491
You can put a chuck on the back end of the motor arbor and run sanding disks or some milling tips in them.


and as long as your careful you can safely rip with one. Just remember to crank the blade down into the table abbot and don't be a fuckstick and feed from the wrong side...

I'll grant you that for ripping they're not as accurate as a good table saw, but they're at least as good as a mediocre one and you can do a lot more with one in my opinion. And yes you can crosscut on a table saw with a sled but that gets an it unwieldy when you start dealing with longer stock.

>>1098501
Nobody imagines that 2x4 + screws joinery is any good. It generally does it's job for as long as required then falls apart. This is what it's for.

Pocket hole jigs are marketed as strong, easy to make joints. They are not. They are no different then 2x4 + screws, only slightly prettier. They have their uses, but what they are promoted for and what they are suited for are not the same.

>>1096408
>>1096418
Not OP, just a guy lurking but I saw your comments and hunted down a 315 on Craigslist and I'm buying it.

>>1098303
What part of labor-intensive do you not understand? It takes a lot longer to put an edge on a saw then it does on a knife. Google it.

Or you can be like me and buy old Disston hand saws for $5 a pop at estate sales.

>>1098604
Might as well turn the old blade into some knives and sell them to buy new blades.

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>>1098491
>and their singular purpose
The whole point of a radial arm saw is it doesn't have a single purpose. They have a shitton of accessories that allow you to do just about anything. It's like saying a Shopsmith is just a lathe.

>Not only that they are inaccurate
Shitty ones are inaccurate. Like those garbage Craftsman saws made by Emerson and every radial arm saw Ryobi ever made. Delta and DeWalt saws are rock solid.

>extremely dangerous
Every power tool ever made, with a possible exception of the scroll saw, is dangerous in the hands of an idiot. It boggles my mind that anyone is ever injured by a radial arm saw. You cut with the wood stationary. Tables saws are legendary for shooting wood into people because you have to push it through the blade. The blade is on a carriage that only moves along a fixed track. If you keep your bits out of the track, you will never be cut, even if it kicks or catches the wood. Good radial arm saws, unless we are talking super old ones, came with blade guards and kickback preventers. Picture related. Even old ones can easily be retrofit. Only the Craftsman garbage saws were really dangerous, which is why they got sued and had to recall all of them.

>Elaborate
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=7345
That's the manual for a mid-60s DeWalt consumer level radial arm saw. It can tell you better than me all the things it can do.

>>1098619
...never saw that saber saw attachment before... that's some slick shit.


Out of curiosity why were the craftsman/Emerson saws recalled? I got one at a garage sale and while it's not perfect it's not terrible.. going through the full setup to square it all up helped immensely. The only recall stuff I could find was about idiots feeding stock backwards while ripping...

>>1098675
Also worth mentioning mine has the splitter and anti kickback tabs retrofit on it..

>>1096406
i just want to make a bookshelf and two simple computer desks. what would i need for that?

>>1098619
Hmm, I didnt realize that the spindle moved all the way vertical.
The sanding drum looks like it could be pretty cool.

Im not sure I would replace a table saw with it, but it looks more versatile than at first glance. Maybe ill make some room in the garage and get a cheap one and throw some drums on it

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>>1098675
>>1098677
>mine has the splitter and anti kickback tabs retrofit on it
Because they originally didn't come with much in the way of safety features and they lost a lawsuit. You can either pull off the motor and carriage and send that in for a cash payment or request they send a replacement blade guard that is better than the stock one. IIRC they ran out of replacement guards a few years back.

Their saws also kind sucked and got worse with time. Their first generation of radial arm saws were solid. Not as nice as DeWalts or Deltas, but solid. Picture related, it also came in gold. Their 70's and especially 80's models were pure trash. They would lose their zeroes if a mouse farted near them, were very overrated (claimed 2+ HP on 110 volts, 15 amps) and not as well put together.

>>1098680
If I could only have one tool in my shop it would be a toss up between a Shopsmith or a good radial arm saw. Probably the latter since you can get even really nice ones dirt cheap. My #2 tool would always be a table saw though. While radial arm saws can do ripping they can't do it as nicely as a table saw. Just about anything else is is better on a RAS, like dados for example, but not ripping.

>>1098679
Cheap circular saw and straight edge

>>1098601
As long as its not been abused, you wont regret it.
The 315 should have an Align a Rip fence on it, they are pretty good fences in their own right. Especially when you consider you are buying a used older table saw.

Some of the old but solid table saws came with pretty mediocre fences.

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>>1098705
Pic related is the one I'm buying. He's asking 350$ but I'm working him down. He has all the original manuals for it and everything and said he's the original owner

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>>1098706
Way too much plastic on that thing. It needs to look more like my picture. You are also overpaying by about 150-200 dollars. The saw in your picture is from like 10 years ago. You need to at least another 30 years to is age.

Those Japanese pull saws are great for hand work with thin wood

>>1098814
Really?
Most of those 1940s era benchtop craftsman saws like your pic related are 103s, not 113s. 103s are 8 inch saws and not worth your time.
The 113s are harder to find and people want way too much for them.
Not only that they lack basic splitters.

The vast majority of 113s youll find for sale are 70s-80s saws that dont look anything like that. Since they have that awful 80s look people dont value them as much while being identical saws.

Thats where the 315s come in. They are from 1997-2004. They are built very similarly to the older 113.
They slightly changed some of the castings, but they are very close and function about the same

The big difference was making them in Taiwan while putting a vastly improved fence on it. But lets be honest here, by the 80s everyone was assembling chinese parts in a factory and labeling it made in USA. I mean fuck, they say 3HP on the front of the saw when they were about 1.5hp

You can improve the 113 easily by getting a good fence. The 315 has a good enough fence its less of a deal to upgrade it.

I currently own a 315 (paid $80 for) and I owned an 80s 113 (paid $25 because it had a bad motor)
The 113 was a slightly nicer saw, but it wasnt a huge difference. I gave it to my brother and he fixed it up. Ive used it at his house and they dont feel all that different when using them.

Its why I have no issue recommending either the 315 or the 113. They are both reasonable saws that can be had for cheap. The 315 has a nice fence but arent plentiful like the 113s are. Get what you can find cheap.

Also the only plastic on the whole saw are the crank wheels, the grip on the all metal fence, and the switch on a metal box.

>>1098706
These saws are very capable, but they arent some real amazing fine woodworking tool.
Going past 150 to 200$ is getting mighty steep.

Their cheap price is what makes them a worthwhile buy.

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>>1098941
>103s are 8 inch saws and not worth your time.
It's a 113 made by Emerson Electric Co., not a 103 made by King Seeley. That specifically is the Craftsman Model 100 table saw. It is a 10 inch saw. I bought one about 6 months ago for $50. It came with an original 1 HP motor (which is about 400 HP in modern marketing ratings), 2 fences, 3 wings (cast) and a home made stand.

>Thats where the 315s come in
315s are made by Ryobi. They are shit.

>and I owned an 80s
Too new. Craftsman tools took a dive starting in the 70s. You want stuff older than that. Hence why I said you needed a tool that was 30 years older than a 10 year old saw.

>>1098706
I'm this guy

>>1098814
That machine looks amazing. I have serious doubts that I'll find something like that on craigslist. I'm in Louisiana and searched the entire state on Craigslist

>>1099080
That one has been restored, most look more rough. That said, since everything is metal, as long as its all there it's very easy to get back into running condition even if it's a rust bucket. The one I paid $50 for was a little dirty but rust free and totally usable out of the box.

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>>1099080
I was curious so I had a look. God damn your state is a wasteland. I thought the guy I tried to help in Florida had it bad. I'm in the middle of bumfuck California. The largest city in my CL area is 80k people and there are more people selling tools here than in your whole state! What a sad selection it was, too. Maybe a half a dozen decent, professional level tools. I saw one Unisaw, one Walker-Turner, and an amazingly overpriced Altas table saw. One guy was selling a nice Delta band saw for $100 though. That's a good price. Anyway, I did find one gem in the rough...

It's in Jackson though. I don't know how close that is to you but if you were willing to search the whole state going the next one over might be inside your bailiwick.

https://jackson.craigslist.org/tls/5854021004.html

It's got a Craftsman motor, so it will be 3/4th or 1 HP. The fence is missing. Replacements can be had on eBay or you can build your own or a sled (which is the best option anyway). Use that to talk the price down. It's got some surface rust on the table but it's not bad. That will come off with some work. The body of the saw is solid, though and it's got a factory stand.

The list has been up for a month. I'd offer $100, if it's still available, and not spend more than $150 on it. If they won't budge call back in a week.

>>1098319

>If the tape measure is off by that much

Its not. The stickers for the table saw measurements are. Have not looked into trying to adjust things so they are right but im gonna loook into that now.

Also the fence that came with the table saw likes to lock at an angle. A quick check to make sure its square. but annoying to have to do it for every single cut and not be able to trust it.

>>1099046

>Craftsman tools took a dive starting in the 70s.

Every time i see it this number gets furth and further out.

At first they took a dive in the 90's. then it was ok to buy 80's tools but the 90's ones sucked.

Now its gone as far back as the 70's.

>>1099046
I didnt say it was a 103, I said you are going to find a whole lot more 103s than 113s and that they arent worth the extra money over an 80s model.
Can you give me a tangible reason why its better?

>315s are made by Ryobi. They are shit.
Can you give me a tangible reason why the Ridgid Rypbi made saw (to almost identical functional specs) would be shit too?

The conventional wisdom on woodworking forums all across the internet is that these saws are very capable at a beginners price point.

If you have some crazy knowledge that proves it false, then enlighten us.

>>1099131
I have a King Seeley made craftsman bandsaw from the 40s. Its stamped steel body and hardware isnt all that much nicer than the 80s table saw I had.

Craftsman has always been weekend warrior tier tools. Going back 80 years where they would chrome plate stuff for looks whereas they cheaped out later on isnt going to actually change the functionality of the saw.

Its just a guy getting a hard-on because "they dont make em like they used to!"

>>1099131
It depends on the tool. Craftsman is not a company, it is a brand owned by Sears. Just like Kenmore. They have never in their history made a tool. They hire other companies to make their tools. That is why we are talking about companies like Emerson and King Seeley and Ryobi in reference to Craftsman. Up until the late 60's/early 70's they generally went with good quality tool makers all around. After that period they started going with cheaper products to stay competitive.

Craftsman hand tools continued, in some cases, to be USA made and high quality up until the 90's. Power tools were a mixed bag but started to slip in the 80's. Their shop tools started to suffer earlier. Part of that was also the fact that quality shop tool makers were also having a rough time. Rockwell/Delta's quality famously started to slip in the 70s before they sold the whole woodworking side of the business in 1980. Black & Decker did the same thing starting in the 80's with their power tools. They so thoroughly ruined their brand they revived the DeWalt name as their 'quality' line of tools in the early 90s and slapped it over the B&D "Professional" line.

>>>1099145
Old King Seeley and Emerson saws were better quality than later saws. They are more stoutly built. They vibrate less. Their motors were higher quality and accurately rated. They were always belt driven. Some later table saws were direct drive or, god forbid, flex drive. I don't think that is the case with those Ryobis though. You are more likely to find models with unbroken adjustment wheels. They are also often cheaper than later saws. Many sellers think older saws aren't worth as much. I see stuff like the Ryobi going for $350 and older saws going for <$200 all day. Just check out the Sacramento CL.

Anyone here own the harbor freight 14in band saw? Ive been collecting harbor freight gift cards for 2 years, all i need is $50 to buy it, and im sure someone will get me at least half that for christmas. I need a bandsaw, and even if i put $200 thats only a 3rd of the cost of the grizzly i was looking at.

>>1099548
Delta bandsaws from any era are rock solid. Post your local Craig's List and I will check and see if they have a good one. The HF one is $280 with a 25% off coupon. I bet you could beat that.

>>1099607
I wouldnt. Ill be using $300 worth of gift cards. Ill be walking out the door with a full wallet.

But, if i culd get a nice delta for under $200 id consider it.

http://detroit.craigslist.org

I used to check pretty frequently, this area is horrible for wood tools, everyone is a mechanic or pissbroke(usually both).

>>1099785
>used to check pretty frequently, this area is horrible for wood tools, everyone is a mechanic or pissbroke(usually both).
There is a nice selection of tools in your area. Certainly more than mine. That said, I didn't see any decent band saws under $200. Sorry. Still worth keeping an eye out for other tools at least. There were some good quality machines for sale on there and in the other local CLs.

>>1099796
Everyone is selling everything for christmas money. I havent checked for that reason, i know ill see something worth getting and i dont want to spend money til i get my gift buying done. Usually its ryobi, vintage or rusty and its all over priced.

Appreciate you taking a look though.

>>1096406
good thing you put a mechanical pencil on there. god forbid anyone use a #2

>>1099889
Then you have to carry around a pencil sharpener

>>1097734
Gyokucho blades are like 14 quid a piece + the same for a handle, that shouldn't be much of a problem, cheaping out on tools means buying a few times.
>>1099962
>not having a chisel on you at all times
Bloody amateur

>>1100127
>Bloody amateur

I suppose wasting time is a professional trait?

>>1100136
>10 seconds of sharpening every 2 days is wasting time

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>>1100137
>only sharpening a pencil every 2 days
>stopping everything you are in the middle of to sharpen a pencil is not a big deal
>a woefully inconsistent tip size from sharpening with a knife is adequate
>inconsistent tip size from use to use as it wears

Maybe you are right, there is absolutely no reason a hard working professional cant deal with a regular pencil

>>1100150
How often do you need a pencil honestly? you scribble stuff for your client, write a list of parts/measurements and maybe every few weeks mark something on wood. For freehand drawing a normally sharp pencil is enough, for anything more detailed you use CAD. every other thing pencils were used in woodworking before is taken over by machine measurements, cnc and templates.

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http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5909657594.html

Would this old Delta be worth the $150?

>>1102056
You see how it has a 7 inch circular saw blade on it?
See how he doesnt mention the blade size?
Its an 8 inch saw.

It may be worth it for the jointer though, keep a dado blade on it.

You have a ton of cheap craftsman saws near you.
Just because some other anon called them shit without giving any real reason why, doesnt mean its actually so. They are widely regarded for the price on every actual forum out there.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5877679196.html

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5924271881.html

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5923390906.html

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5921890708.html

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5901373458.html

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5903971701.html

>>1102062
thanks guy