MICRO HYDRO GENERAL:

>>1090354

Any chance you studied mechanical engineering in the nyc area? Some dude in my program built a micro hydro turbine like that for his senior design work. If you're not him, then that piece of shit literally copied plans off the Internet.

I'm glad I went to grad school to distance myself from that trash college.

>>1090354
It works as a short-term low-power emergency backup. If the power goes out and you need some emergency LED lights, it'll help. If you want your refrigerator to stay on, you're shit out of luck.

>>1090377
You have no concept of compound interest and the free potential energy of rivers

>>1090386
Rivers dry up
They freeze up

The other poster is right, its a nice sorta low-power emergency setup, but I wouldn't rely solely on it. Add solar+wind setup along with it and you have a good system. Maybe a gravity system for some energy storage.

>>1090354
>>1090386
>You have no concept...

Just stop.

http://www.homepower.com/articles/microhydro-power/design-installation/microhydro-myths-misconceptions

Also, the dumbfucks like whoever made the OP picture need to stop using 3D printing as a solution for everything. The longevity of those turbine blades will be absolute shit if they're anything like the ones I've interacted with before.

>>1090398
Just print more

>>1090354
Only if you can get a lot of head.
>>1090386
Low head is shit.

>>1090400
>low head is shit
you just have to get a meme generator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo_mP18IXMo

What about steam turbines

https://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
By far the best diy project for micro hydroelectrics
tl;dr Chilean (electrical?) engineer builds his own hydroelectric generator for his remote paradise home

>>1090428
You need to supply the energy to vaporize the water and you also need to transport it from the vaporization site to the turbine. Thermal energy derived from nuclear fission would be the most efficient source of energy but it probably isn't an option for you. Sunlight is a good alternative source of thermal energy. IA large wind turbine could be useful, even if it is just to help power the movement of water.

>>1090375
That's a Pelton wheel. Nothing new

>>1090354
Some local indian tribe is going to claim that you are disturbing the spirit of the fish spirits in that creek and you will be made to stop.

Never mind that they were moved 500 miles here from their traditional home lands to the reservation. And all they know is where the casinos and liquor stores are.

>>1090387
You can also use the energy when you have it to separate water into hydrogen for storage.

>>1090398
>>1090399
3D printing is more useful for quickly churning out prototypes to try out before using better methods for a finished product, it's how big companies like shoe manufacturers have been using it.

micro hydro is a really niche application because you have to have shit tons of water + elevation + temperatures that don't do what >>1090387
said.

even with really elaborate set ups most guys are only getting ~3 kw

>>1090387
>Rivers dry up
>They freeze up
not where I live they don't - Australia, drying out is possible but not likely

>>1090375
nah not me.

optimally, micro hydro is best suited to agricultural use because of the vast land and water requirements. if you have a fuckton of land and water, you are probably already growing stuff.

"micro" hydro is retarded. Power generation completely depends on the difference in height between the turbine and the intake pipe. Head makes power.

Pelton wheels are cool, but unless you have 500+ feet of stream it will be useless since most streams have very gradual slopes. Pmax = ρghQ

h is head.

feed the generator with a ram pump?

>>1090789
Thermodynamics is paging you to the main conference room

>>1090714
>hydrogen for storage
Hydrogen is much less dense than water. Why would it be useful to store it?

>>1090913
You can use it as fuel.
As people in the thread have said, water can dry up or freeze, there can be cloudy rainy days, or days without much in the way of wind when alternative energy won't deliver. Battery technology is pretty shit today, it's very expensive and inefficient and probably not worth it for any significant power for small setups like what are being discussed.

The idea is that when the water is flowing, the sun is shining, the wind is blowing, rather than just using all the power, selling it to others at a loss, or struggling to store it in a battery, you use the energy to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. This costs energy but transforms the energy when you have it into a state that can be stored and used when you don't have power otherwise.

I hope that helped you understand.

>>1090934
It isn't practical to store hydrogen instead of water. The amount of storage space you need is very large and because it is a volatile material you will need to safely store it. Hydrogen is not a viable source of fuel for a small scale power plant. You will use more energy than it can produce.

>>1090934
I don't think you understand hydrogen storage problems. Imagine a molecule so small that you can make the best jar you possibly can to the highest tolerances. You close it tight. Then the molecule just falls out of the solid bottom. Oh, and it made the bottom brittle when it did that so the next time you fill it, it's going to shatter.

It'd be a lot more fun to Diy a bank of lead acid batteries.

>>1090938
The point isn't to store hydrogen instead of water, but to turn the energy of moving water, or wind or sun, into a form that can be stored and used whenever you need it.
There would be a cost for containment but while I don't have numbers in front of me I'm pretty sure it can be at least as cost efficient as a fuckload of batteries that pose their own issues of chemical leakage and fires and efficiency loss over time.
Another option is gravity batteries, using energy when you have it to lift water or something else to create potential energy that can be released when needed. Really when you're talking about small-scale alternative energy diversification is good.

The whole point is that with wind and hydro and solar it's great when you have it, but you often don't have it all the time and you can either just try to use as much as possible and let extra go to waste or sell it to other people at a shitty price, otherwise you need to store the energy somehow.

>>1090941
Well of course you shouldn't use a fucking jar but I have seen diy setups and consumer fuel cells and related tech are slowly coming down in price.

By all means do whatever you think would be more "fun" for you but that's more an opinion than some technical argument against hydrogen.

>>1090943
>Another option is gravity batteries, using energy when you have it to lift water or something else to create potential energy that can be released when needed.
That's how a water reservoir works. Excess energy is taken from the grid to pump water up the gradient to store energy.

>The point isn't to store hydrogen instead of water, but to turn the energy of moving water, or wind or sun, into a form that can be stored and used whenever you need it.
It would be more energy efficient to melt ice than create hydrogen gas.

>>1090428

At smaller sizes a steam engine will be better. Turbines have a good isentropic efficiency when they are about >200 kW (this may vary). Isentropic efficiency denotes, in laymans terms, the ability to utilize the "energy" difference (between the boiler and the outlet/condenser) you have. Of course, I should clarify, it is that difference in parameters (pressure, temperature) that is the actual thermal efficiency of the overall plant depends on. So at a small scale, when you are confined to low parameters (after all, you won't likely build a very high pressure, highly superheated system in your garage), you will be confined to about 20% thermal efficiency, even if you had the best expander possible (100% isentropic efficiency). But - if you can use the waste heat, for heating your house for example, you will have an economically viable system. For example having 2kW of electric power and 8kW of heat seems reasonable for a household. So it makes perfect sense. If you have cheap fuel, you are set.

I have been personally built a steam boiler that I have in a shed, that produces steam at 7 bar and additionally has a superheater that superheats this steam to abou 350 C, depending on the load. I built it because I was planning a steam boat, but I could not be bothered about the boat part. I have been collecting small steam engines for some time before, so I have been using it to run those, just as a relaxing hobby, but I have been working on designing a larger one for such a co-generated heat and power system. That is to say, I have designed it some time ago, and done all the calculations (there is a load of things to calculate if you want it to be efficient), I just need to save up to have the parts made.

>INB4 your boiler will explode
I'm a mechanical engineer, I have designed it properly, done all the necessary testing, and most of all i have reliable feed water apparatus and a brain

>>1090400
You strike me as someone who gives a lot of head.

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>>1090439
>paying those people to dig that trench

Holy fuck he could have rented a digger or something.

>>1090375

it's just a pelton wheel...it's been around for a very long time.

I live in Scotland in the countryside.

My neighbour built a hydro system himself.

He was generating enough excess power to build a 3/4 olympic size pool and heat it.

I am planning to build my own version in the future.

I dont know the exact details but I know that he built a small dam upstream.

>>1090439

oh man this is neat, I know half a dozen stream in town I could do this to if I were given permission by the city!

I mean, it's northern British Columbia so there are stream everywhere

This loots like lots of effort but not necessarily huge amounts of monetary investment.

How soon would a mini-hydroelectric setup pay itself off if I had the ability to divert as much water as necessary very easily (by hand) and I was using it to heat a medium sized home? How easy it it to sell power to the grid?

>>1091315
Where roughly do you live, we would like a wee look.
-SEPA

>>1090946
>Well of course you shouldn't use a fucking jar

You literally have no concept of an analogy, do you? Wew.

>>1091099
>renting a digger

He did. He hired two of them.

>>1091322
Why ask all those questions? You wont get permission.

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>>1090400
>Low head is shit
>>1090712
>disturbing the spirit of the fish spirits in that creek
How about this pic related?

>>1091431
More on this?

>>1090452
You don't need to transport steam. Pressure differentials create steam movement. The "vaporization site" in a power plant model is a boiler and the pressure drop through the turbine to a low pressure exhaust creates flow.

>>1091076
I assume you included pressure safety devices as well as just having a reliable feed water apparatus and a brain? What parts do you need made out of curiosity?

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>>1090729
>even with really elaborate set ups most guys are only getting ~3 kw

That's pretty good and equivalent to pic related.

Q:
What types of appliances will a 3,000-watt generator run?
A:
QUICK ANSWER

A 3,000-watt generator can run a large range of home appliances, including heavy-duty things such as a refrigerator, an electric furnace, a microwave and a television. In general, appliances require a higher wattage amount when they are first started up; during operation, the running wattage typically drops significantly. Theoretically, a 3,000-watt generator can run many appliances simultaneously, though each needs to be activated separately.

When using a 3,000-watt generator, balancing wattage requirements is important. While it is theoretically possible to run most, if not all, of a house's appliances on 3,000 watts, spikes in watt usage may sometimes cause the whole system to short and turn off.

>>1090758
If they don't ever dry up then odds are it has weirs along its length. So ignoring the potential for the local water authority to get mad at you, at some point the flow will drop to practically zero during a drought.

>>1090946
Rutherford is spinning in his grave so fast from that comment we could just attach a generator to his body.

>>1091645
I have a safety valve. What I need made for that engine, is, essentially, the whole thing. That is, I would need to get someone to machine the cylinder and cylinder sleeve, the valve blocks and the piston, because those parts are too big for my lathe. A lot of parts are also designed as laser cut-outs so it will be outsourced, but I have some cheap laser guys. Those will need finishing, but I can do that by hand. For now, I have other stuff on my mind, and my other, smaller engines to play with so it is not a priority.

where can you get these from??

do they come set up?

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>>1090354
in absence of water, could you DIY a sterling engine? all you would need to supply it would be hot embers and snow, but could someone actually build one out of scrap?

>>1092145
>where can you get these from??
an engineer.

>>1091843
Cool. Best of luck with that. Where about do you live? Have you ever been to the great oregon steam up? I work on boilers in the north west. You'd have plenty of friends there.

>>1090759
Could it be feasibly applied to a suburban household somehow? One with a pool?

>>1092155
For any reasonable power generation, they need to be pressurized, so no

>>1091843
Can't you just make the engine smaller to fit on your lathe? What pressure did you test your pressure vessel to? Pics?

you should check out nikola tesla water turbine

>>1093135
Nice. Where can you buy these?

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>>1092219

Poland. But I know some people from the US, and they tell me it is not a very steam friendly country. And that when it comes to older "steam people", they are very un-accepting of newcomers, that there is some nepotism going around. Plus safety and liability concerns, all that insane stuff. So the picture they give me is quite depressing - yet they do get a lot of stuff done it seams. So, tell me, how does it look from your point of view? Those folks are on the east coast, and you are from the west - and I have hear a lot of good things about the west. So, what sort of boilers do you work on? Is it true that there still are a few stationary steam engine plants in some Oregon sawmills?

>>1092908
If I make the cylinder smaller, I will have less power. I already have a few engines that size. I would need something bigger now. Working pressure is 8 bar maximum. I have tested on up to 20 (hydro). The pic is the only one I have on this computer, boiler in the background, a large steam pump I have restored in the foreground. I will get some pictures of the boiler from my other computer tomorrow.

>>1092908

>>1093574
Bump for steam

hook it up to a toilet
shit all day
?
profit

I've seen some remote ass cabins for sale in northern as fuck Canada with their own micro hydro setups. They only need a little stream with enough flow to fill a ~1-2'' pipe. Sure it doesn't generate enough to run an arc furnace but it'' generate enough to keep your batteries topped off.

>>1094693
Link to the properties?

>>1094793

I haven't looked in a while. Search for "Micro Hydro" on Kijiji.

>>1094793

Here's one.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-land-for-sale/nelson/nearly-off-grid-with-micro-hydro-and-cedar/1062786793?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

>>1094797
Awesome. Thanks

Did a lot of research into it. The epa can be a problem and state water laws. Depends on where you are. The advantage of the kind of system you posted is it can all be buried water line. Almost 100% hidden. Inside a locked shed, the only visible parts is the intake and outtake which can be hidden. Intake can be put in rough waters behind a large rock on the bottom side with a screen and large rocks on it. Same for the out take. The rough water will cover any disturbance. With proper burial and placement, you could be right on top of it and not know it. Also lots of bushes and thorny shit around the creek.
I would go with a waterwheel though. Its more stable in the rpm, cheaper and would not require expensive resistive brake loads. You can buy a SCR crowbar online from hydro companies for about 150 bucks. Its like a voltage circuit breaker. if it exceeds so much voltage it disconnects and shorts the leads. Protects your charge controller. You could do a hydro set up for as low as 1000 dollars with good output, like 500 watts and up.
Even 100 watts 24/7 is a lot. A dual system would be useful. Hydro and solar go together really well. Most creeks won't have the flow you want in the summer but thats when solar does its best. A midnite classic charge controller would be a good bet. Like the 250 volt model for extra safety room. Run the water wheel unloaded to find the maximum rpm. Gear it up to somewhere around 100 volts.

>>1092155
Considering almost no commercial versions exist or they have gone out of business no. The largest version I have seen DIY was professionally machined, driven by a propane burner and it put out 500 watts. I would give my left nut for the older phillips stirling generator.
Straight wood fire driven engines. The best for off grid. Stirling engines of any HP tend to be larger than anything. A 10 HP stirling engine would be the size of a large motorcycle.
Your best bet is wood gas. A charcoal gasifier is cheap to build and bullet proof. Straight forward and as long as you feed it good charcoal it won't damage the engine in anyway. Easiest and most reliable of the gasifiers. A gas engine is easy to convert as well. 1800 rpm engines work the best. Cheap 3600 gensets work but they tend to outrun the flame speed and run a bit weaker. If you recycle some of the exhaust from the generator into a charcoal gasifier it will cool it down to an optimal temperature as well as produce more burnable gas and slow down consumption.

>>1090390
What?

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>>1090439
Very cool project, reading the whole site now

>>1094622
could you actually hook one up to your toilet for when it flushes (i realise it wouldn't give out much power, but over time it could add up if you linked it to a battery)

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Best way if you have volume and not much head is definitely an Archimedes screw.

My neighbour built one three years ago and is selling power back to the grid. Including the sluices and repairing a weir, it cost £100,000. He can only generate power during the winter, but even so is on track to pay that off next year, leaving all future years as pure profit.

>>1097720
Have to be a piss only toilet .

>>1097720
You aren't going to charge even one AA sized battery in a month at normal flush rate.

>>1090354
My dad made the plans of a farmhouse once and in the same plot (it was very big) they were building a small hydro similar to pic related. Totally worth it and very green. It made a couple megawatts.
>>1090387
The whole world doesn't freeze in winter american, and because he is speaking english in english speaking imageboard doesn't mean he is burger
>>1090398
this too. They are pretty flimsy.
>>1098330
Are you/him retarded? You can make Run-of-the-river dams and they'll make much more power.

>>1098458
Fucking hell, my dad made the project of a farmhouse*. Apparently 4chins is having trouble allowing me to post images so here is the link to pic.https://energya.ntcbrasil.com.br/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/11/usinas-fio-dagua-vantagens-1.jpg


I would post the pictures of the small hydro they did but it's on another computer in another house. It's a bigish project for a lone guy but he was a rich farmer and got state funding and support.

Neither, it's a success.

Unless you're in bumfuck nowhere, you have to consider local geography and fall - archimedes works very well with just a few feet of fall. If you don't own much more or the gradient is low, you have no other option other than flooding the valley, which tends to upset people.

It also negates the need for fish migration laws as you're not interfering with the main flow of the river.

This shit works and works really well. Try and get it into your brain that there are multiple solutions to any given problem.

>>1098723
Not him but run out of the river dams do not flood and IS for low gradient and high volumes in water. He is probably Brazilian and there they have some amazon dam projects in places with little gradient that just work because of the massive amounts of water.

>>1091489
Google search query:
gravitational water vortex power plant

>>1093320
http://phoenixnavigation.com/how-to_plans.html#CD-ETT
Closest i found to 'buy' and better suited to this board at any rate.

>>1098780
awesome