Box joints in hardwood

>>1087934
Get more accurate then.

>>1087936
>Get more accurate then.
Anything more specific?
I'm currently using a jig that attaches to a very accurate sled, but the "teeth" it makes aren't consistent in size.
There's a tiny difference no matter what I do.
With pine it's close enough, but oak is like working with hardened steel.

>>1087951
It them with a mallet. Hitting things with other things solves almost all problems in carpentry .

>>1087951

Either this

>>1087955

Or build a more accurate jig. You seem to be aware of the issues so i dont know what you are looking for

Make sure you're using the appropriate toothed saw blade since it sounds like you're using a table saw. Some have a nasty set to them and will never cut square by design. Also go to Rockler or w/e and get one of those 2" fatass arbor washers for the blade to minimize wobble.

>>1087960
>Or build a more accurate jig.
The sled is ridiculously accurate, and there's no play in the jig.
It should be perfect, but it's just not.
And this is my 5th or 6th jig.
I've tried using the "one pin" style, and that's fine as long as the fingers are one blade width, but for bigger joints I've built a "domino" style jig, but it's just not working the way it should.

>>1087965
>that's fine as long as the fingers are one blade width,
p.s.: it's fine for pine, but still doesn't work for oak.

>>1087965
Show us pictures of the pieces you're having trouble with. Maybe there's something you missed?

>>1087969
>Show us pictures
I'll post some after lunch. Stay tuned.

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>>1087951
Get a good miter saw and a proper set of chisels.

>>1087978
I have chisels, but why a miter saw?

>>1087934
Built a screw advance box jig from Matthias' video and I havent looked back. Flawless joints every time

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>>1088018
>Built a screw advance box jig from Matthias' video
I hate to say it, but this may be my only hope.
It *seems* like a lot more effort than should be required, though.
My jigs work fine with pine, there's just no wiggle room with oak.
Here's my domino jig.
It's simple, sturdy, rugged.
By comparison, a screw-jig seems really complex and probably takes forever to build.

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...here's a joint with the allen key turned to "tighter"

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...and a joint with the key turned to "looser".

do it by hand

>>1087934
If you can cut them too tight, then finish them with a sharp chisel and/or a rasp. Hand fit that shit.

>>1088105
The problem is they're not consistent.
If most fit, or even almost fit, there' will be one that's too loose.
I've also tried using a file, and it tends to round off the internal faces. A chisel works better.
I'm going to go re-build my sled with hdpe runners instead of oak.
The sled seems super accurate, even with the "5 cut" test, but apparently that's not good enough.

>>1088116
Without knowing how you constructed your jigs and how your whole setup works, it's hard to diagnose where the issue is. My guess is that there are many issues and errors that add up.
It's not necessarily only an issue with the jig; the saw might be inaccurate, or the table wonky, or something out of square, and so on.

>>1088118
>the saw might be inaccurate
I thought this too, so I've put a 7 1/4" blade in instead on the theory that if my regular blade is bent even slightly, that might be part of the problem.

>>1088118
>something out of square, and so on.
I'm leaning his way too, but the results are inconsistent, not consistently out of square.

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OK, Jesus F-ing Christ...
Apparently I just can't do anything.
I just wasted most of my remaining HDPE trying to cut two new runners for my sled.
I can't even do that.
I cut one runnier a tiny bit too wide, then put it snugly between the fence and the blade.
Now when I turn the saw on, and pass the runner through, it shaves about one-two molecules off the width.
Seriously, not even close to a blade width.
But now the runner is waaaaay too narrow, and wobbles like crazy.
It looks like I cut 1/8" off, when I know damn well it was less than 1/64th.
So I put the piece back between the stopped blade and the fence.
Still fits snugly.
WTF?????
Anybody got ANYTHING like this happen to them???

>>1088131
...it just gets worse.
I can pass a piece of hdpe through, and the cut piece fits on one end, but it's too wide on the other end.
How does that even happen????
So i pass it through again, and it cuts the whole thing again, like I didn't just cut it with this same fence setting.
And not a tiny little bit either, more like it's taking 1/16" off.
Like the fence moved that far between cuts.
But it's still at the exact same spot on the built in ruler.
So I cut a second runner, and get the eact same result.
Like the fence magically moved back to the same original spot, then magically moved again between the first and second pass through the saw.
I've been working with this saw for months, and I've never had this kind of problem before.
I could understand if the fence was just drifting further as I use it, but it's more like it moves (consistently) back and forth between cuts.
I'm going to go check out the hardware under the table.
If that's no good I'll throw all my tools away and just get drunk and play video games.

>>1088137
one advice:
>take a (metaphorical) step back and look at your situation again
Take a break, and after a few days (or weeks or whatever), start from scratch. That is, throw out your assumptions and try to analyze the problem from the ground: reduce complexity and start with the most basic setup. Analyze all parts and do simple, reproducible tests until you're certain everything is satisfactory. Then add things one by one, repeating tests.

>>1088137
Ryobi table saws are shitty

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>>1088141
>and after a few days (or weeks or whatever), start from scratch
I've been doing that for about a month now.

>>1088142
>Ryobi table saws are shitty
Yes, they are.
There's a slight wobble to shaft even with no blade on.
But it's not like it's just wobbly or something.
I think I'm having a stroke.
I just went on to a different project involving my cheap-ass harbor freight router table.
I'm using a slot-cutter, and needed to move the bit, router etc down 1/16".
So I lowered the nut on the height guide one full turn.
It's a 3/8" 16 tpi bolt.
Nope.
One turn of the 16tpi bolt only moved the bit 1/32".
I think I may really be having a stroke.

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>>1088149
OK, all kidding aside, I think I;m losing it.
One hdpe rail fits snugly.
Not as snugly as I'd like, but at this point I just don't care.
I use the table router to cut the grooves for the Ryobi's retarded pressed sheet metal tabs (pic related), and now the rail is too wide.
That's right, using the router to remove part of the rail made it wider somehow.
Fuck this shit, it's tequila time.

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>>1088022
Nah, don't build that. That doesn't have the precision or simplicity that William Ng's box joint jig has.

https://youtu.be/NutwD7B6tmE

Pic related. This is the precision I achieved on my very first attempt. This is the first set of box joints I cut with the Wililam Ng method.

>>1088162
Dude, what the fuck? Is your table saw top made of sheet metal?

>>1088168
>Is your table saw top made of sheet metal?
Yes. I''m married (no money).

>>1088166
>That doesn't have the precision or simplicity that William Ng's box joint jig has.

I really didn't want to spring for the dado set, and now I think there's no point in spending any more money on tools at all.
Shit I've done well at my entire life, I suddenly just can't do at all.

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BTW, you wanna know what the 'jig' is?

It's a table saw sled, which you might already have...and a board with a nub of wood sticking out of it. That's all you need to make flawless fitting box joints every single time.

>>1088025
Square the heck out of that saw blade. Check the saw for squre, looks to be out a small bit.. Cutting on a one, or two degree mitre to me.

>>1088131
Again... You cutting on a mitre son.

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>>1088184
>Square the heck out of that saw blade.
It's as square as I can make it.
Besides, the cuts aren't consistently crooked. Instead, the width varies for no apparent reason.
(pic related)

>>1088175
>and a board with a nub of wood sticking out of it.
Yeah, yeah, I have one of those too, for smaller joints.
But I don't have a dado stack, and at this point so much shit just isn't working that I worry I shouldn't even spend any more money a hobby I just suddenly can't do any more.

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>>1088192

Look man, I understand. I'm :

>>1088175
>>1088166

I spent so much on nice tools and all the equipment to make all sorts of joinery. I don't do this anymore since I got my Kreg K4. Precision cuts that you fuss with feeler gauges and dial indicators are fun only the first few times. Now I just make everything with Kreg screws and as long as the joinery doesn't contribute to the aesthetic of the finished piece, something assembled with Kreg screws will look just as good and be just as strong for the most part. No more fuss, just stuff you dream up actually gets built that same day.

Your shitty Ryobi table saw is more than accurate enough to make awesome shit, as long as you have a Kreg jig.

>>1088199
+1 on the kreg, I Love mine
Also why does it have to be Oak OP, why not tulip, or something moderately soft but nicer than pine, I have had great success with dovetail and tulip poplar

>>1088175
If OP has a badly tuned, cheap saw he will never make a proper jig.

I dealt with that for months trying to build jigs for a shitty saw.
Low and behold, the day I upgraded my saw to a decent find on craigslist was I able to properly build a sled.

>>1088208
>Also why does it have to be Oak OP,
I actually want to work with a nice piece of cherry, but I'm trying out my jig on some small pieces of oak.
I know the cherry isn't as hard as the oak, but I really want this shit to just work right without fudging.

>>1088210
>If OP has a badly tuned, cheap saw
Cheap yes.
Badly tuned? maybe.
But that just can't explain the results I'm getting.
It's not crooked, or generally ill-fitting. look at this pic:>>1088192
All the surfaces are cut very square,,. but that one fricking tooth is too narrow.

>>1088221
If the fingers aren't the same width, you're going about it all wrong. Every cut needs to be done against a stop. There's no reason why you should settle for the results you're getting.

>>1088223
>Every cut needs to be done against a stop.
I'm using an allen key to press up against dominoes. see >>1088022

>>1088022
>>1087951
The obvious question. How sure are you that A) there's no wiggle room on the dominos/with the allen key, and B) that the dominos are the exact same width.

>>1088247
>How sure are you that A) there's no wiggle room on the dominos/with the allen key,
The key presses right up against each domino.
I'm making sure there's no sawdust, etc on the dominoes affecting their spacing. If I just wasn't pressing each one up against the domino firmly, the finger would be too wide, not too narrow. I'm not letting the key rotate during the process, although turning it beforehand lets me adjust the tightness of the joint.

>B) that the dominos are the exact same width.
Well, they're cast plastic or resin. They can't be *perfectly* identical, but they aren't 1'16" different either.

I'm genuinely worried there's something wrong with my brain. There's just no plausible explanation for what's happening, and yet it's clear something's wrong.