Which joint is stronger?

The one on the right, shorter lever from the weak point.

On the right. You're basically relying on a pinch point and wood glue in the joint on the left.

>>1065391
The one on the right. The left one won't even work without glue.

>>1065391
Utterly depends which way the pressure is applied...

>>1065419
And you dont think the weight shown exemplifies this?

>>1065420
No, I thought that was a cowbell.

>>1065391
How is it joined? Glue, nails, screws, press fit, cum dripped out your ass?

>>1065391
Gut feeling says the right one because the leverage might be slightly different, but i have no idea.

>>1065391

The one I just hit.
Check'em.

Neither of those is the right joint for that application

they are both quite shitty if not joined at all, but the one on the right is stronger

>>1065391
If they are glued properly, they are the same strength.

>>1065391
Make one of each, hit each with a hammer where the weight will lay. Whichever breaks first is weaker.

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When failure is simply not an option.

>>1065546
>pocket hole joinery
NO

>>1065489
>>1065491

The one on the right could be highly sufficient if the joint is made correctly.

>>1065536

The left one is weaker. No need to fanny around.

>>1065546

My sides are gone.

>>1065422
Seconded.

Both fall to the ground at the same rate. The one on the left would survive the ground impact better.

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>>1065546

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>>1065546

>>1065557
It's a concrete meme.

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>>1065422

>>1065391
practically the same i should think.
in practice there will be a large enough variation in material and build that the difference in orientation will be insignificant

isn't it the same joint rotated? according to the drawing if you place the weight on either piece it doesn't matter because an equal force will counteract it on the other end

what is the context of the joint? What is it fixed to? is it a drawer?

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>>1065546

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Not OP, but have same question about this for mortise/tenon.

>>1065970
top is stronger

>>1065970
They are effectively the same.

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Now which is stronger?

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>>1065391

This one

>>1065929
On the left the piece bearing the weight has the mortise.

On the right it has a tenon.

>>1065557
>>1065558
>>1065655
>>1065747
>>1065943

Every time I've seen a pocket hole joint fail the damage to both mating surfaces is catastrophic. If it's too heavy for pocket hole screws, it's too heavy for the wood. Don't confuse them with just drilling into the end grain like normal screws. Pocket hole screw joints are much stronger.

>>1065546
Lost.

>>1066013
The one on the right is now bankrupt.

>>1065546
look ma i replied

>>1065391
left

>>1065970
top

>>1066013

depends if either was made by rapists

>>1066064
legit q, which is stronger, pocket hole or biscuit joint?

>>1066238

You wouldn't use them for necessarily the same thing. I only use biscuits for lining up boards when gluing. You can add them to joints for some benefit but not massive benefit.

Pocket holes are good for concealing screws but they have no real strength.

The strength in both is down to the glue joint.

>>1066274

matthias confirmed glue doesnt make a pocket hole stronger

>>1066275
Well looking at his results the averages without glue were 99lbs and 111 with glue so it made a difference.

His conclusion, or as you incorrectly put it "confirmation" was that adding glue to an already weak as fuck joint isn't going to play much part in its strength when you apply 100lbs of pressure to it. It will make a difference at the back of a crappy IKEA grade cabinet.

I personally think it's a shit joint regardless so I don't use them.

>>1065391
Is it sitting on the ground? Is it screwed to a wall? Is it falling through the air? Is it in a perfect vacuum?

From the picture its the same joint rotated and with no indication where the force will be concentrated no judgement can be made which is best.

>>1066333
One is in 4 dimensions, one is in 7, which one is stronger?

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>>1065391
>Which joint is stronger?
that one that can withstand a Mathias thump.

>>1066274
>Pocket holes are good for concealing screws but they have no real strength.

You are legitimately retarded.

>>1066467

Explain how. You're not on /b/ or /pol/ now, if you're going to come out with spurious claims you at the very least need to explain why.

>>1065970
same

>>1066489
Pocket holes only really have shear strength

>>1066489
>/pol/
>spurious claims

choose one

>>1066798
>Imply Pol is not spurious

>>1066805
>Australians on /pol/

>>1065391
The one not done by a woman

>>1066333

Even autistic engineering students look at that and all come up with the same conclusion that the upright column is static while the lateral beam is hanging free and the mass is being it's massy self

>>1066846
kek

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>>1065391
This one.

>>1066879

Where is the grain to show if it is forged or machined?

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>>1066881
Right here.

>>1066883
thanks

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>>1065391
>>1065546
>>1065970
I'm sorry.

>>1067122

beat me to it

>>1067122
I love this place.

>>1065465
I'm going to need you to elaborate for... scientific reasons.

>>1066853
No they wouldn't unless they're piss poor students or in a country where they're not taught to draw proper fucking diagrams. Ambiguity is not something you want in engineering.

>>1067223

Agreed.

The ideology of "good enough" kills people.

I, for one, would not sign-off on something ambiguous.

>>1066041
the weld on the bottom is not going anything.
omit it

>>1067223
>Ambiguity is not something you want in engineering.

>>1067278
>The ideology of "good enough" kills people.


non-engineer detected. engineering is handwavy as fuck and entirely based on empirical "good enough" formulations.

>>1067304

CAD/CAM Technician. Plan on being an engineer in the future.

I like a generous safety factor on everything I make. Coworkers laughed when I talked about safety standards until a product came back covered in blood because it chopped off a client's finger or two. Biggest "I told you so" I ever gave someone.

>>1067317
>Coworkers laughed when I talked about safety standards until a product came back covered in blood because
speaking of safety standards
>Biggest "I told you so" I ever gave someone.
you're going to get pranked with a tire iron

>>1067322

If she wasn't a giant cunt about it for several months leading up to it, maybe I would have bit my tongue. Wasn't feeling too charitable.

On the plus side, the quality of her work improved after.

>>1067324
she or someone like her is going to get promoted over you and you're never going to understand why

>>1067327

She actually ended up getting moved to a different department where she could do less damage. She was lucky she didn't get fucking fired.

When I left the company, they offered to nearly double my salary for me to stay.

I might be a dick, but I get shit done.

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>>1065391
I'm tempted to try some mechanics of materials type analysis on this to settle the debate.
What sort of assumptions should I make for the joint that'd make everyone happy? Is a simple wood-glue connection sufficient?

What bizzaro /diy/ is this to have produced such fine memery and humor?

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Now which is strongest?

>>1067304

I think you mean

Good enough x 1.3 = goodest

Now you can submit the design poposal

>>1067324
>she
That explains it.

What was it that came back?

>>1067187
It's the little things. Chink moot better not bankrupt this place. He said this place needs more money to cover operating costs.

>I'll have nowhere to go if that happens. I rely on this place too much.

>>1067414
Which DUMBell is heavier?

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>>1065391
like this
the green one works too.

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>>1067937
>What was it that came back?

A store fixture. It had a little wing (red) that you could flip up and lock into place. It had a piano hinge (green) on the end with a rectangular steel tube (blue) welded onto it which would swing down and act as a foot. The manager of the store where it was installed wanted to lift the wing, so she grabbed the edge and started lifting, not realizing that her hand was right where the tube was going to be. As soon as she started lifting it, the steel tube quickly swung down (since there was nothing to stop it from doing so) and the edge of the tube took off her finger(s).

The person who "engineered" it was one of the team leads in the engineering department because of seniority and nepotism. She would fight tooth and nail against every effort to improve department processes. She'd scoff at QA/QC, get into shouting matches with basically everyone else in the engineering department, including the manager, and was an all-around cunt. Once the manager implemented performance metrics, she was consistently the worst or second worst performer in the entire department (the only one who'd perform worse was someone who worked directly under her).

And it's not even a gender thing. We had two other women in the department. One who had been there almost as long (~15 years instead of ~17) and one who was my junior by about 10 months. Both of them did consistently high quality work. The senior of the two was put in charge of all training of new employees and was the most stringent person in the department when it came to QC, barring myself. Both were very driven to improve the quality and efficiency of our department's work and I respect them both.

>>1065391
There's no difference between the two.

>>1068090
so how did ur company not get sued

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>>1066061
You're disregarding physics. In this situation, the force being applied to the joint is the same in both scenarios. The force of the weight is being counteracted by an equal force holding the other board vertical. Basically, a force is being applied that is pulling the two outer edges apart about a hinge point (the joint). The result is both images are showing the same situation, and the direction of the joint is irrelevant.

>>1068101

Legal was not my department and it wasn't my fuck up. I gave feedback on methods to fix the design, but had very little involvement beyond that.

>>1068103
you forgot gravity

>>1068103
If that is the entire structure, you are correct and I am amazed by the fact that you are the first to have this insight. However, if there would be a wall behind the vertical one, I would say the situation is different, since the point the torsion acts on will be different? It's been a while since my last engineering class, so please explain why I am wrong if I am.

>>1068090
>team leads in the engineering department because of seniority and nepotism.

I HATE this shit. I can't stand when people get promoted just because they've been there forever or have an "in" with the boss.

>get into shouting matches

Unacceptable. Once is a write up, twice you're fired. This is poor management from her superiors. A stressful environment is unproductive and this type of anger can lead to workplace violence and even escalate to a shooting.

Yes I'm mad.

>>1068152

The bitch actually got that other female team lead (who was awesome) to tears a number of times because of how she acted. We'd go into engineering meetings with a dozen subjects to cover in 30 minutes and then we'd have 25 minutes of her bitching about how CHANGE IS BAD!

I remember handing her a project for her to QC and she literally took the QC checklist, put a check mark next to each box without even reading what the text said or looking at the model/drawings. The engineering manager was NOT impressed when he saw she had checked-off fields that didn't even apply to the project.

>>1068149
If the entire vertical section was attached firmly to a flat surface I'm sure it would effect one differently than the other, but only slightly. Maybe not even enough to go outside the range of joint strength caused by variances on different pieces of wood.

>>1068145
I didn't. Gravity is pulling down on the horizontal board just like the weight is pushing down on it. It doesn't change anything in the scenario.

>>1068157
>The bitch actually got that other female team lead (who was awesome) to tears a number of times

This pisses me off. That's not right. I know people that have been reduced to tears because of workplace bullies. I'm fuming.

>>1065391
Depends on the application.
In set construction we will always use left.

Because on the right one, the vertical will split when dragged on the ground.

>>1065391
Needs more cow bells.

Mfw not fingr joynt i haev nu feac

It's literally the same joint just turned..

>>1068790
That's the joke

>>1068790
>>1068944
plebs detected

>>1068025
The green one works much better.

>>1065391
If joined properly and the left can't slip out they're both equally strong. Literally the same joint.

>>1065546
why do i see tons of americans use pocket holes .
its a big ass no no in most places.

>>1071117
americans are stupid

>>1071117

Honest to god question here:

Is there any actual evidence as to why you shouldn't use pocket holes, or is it the wood version of "GORILLION TIMES FOLDED NIPPON STEEL"

>>1071161
it creates more weaknesses

A pure big fat joint is strongest

>>1071169
>>1065465
DUDE WEED LMAO

>>1067506
>1.3
Why not 1.5?

>>1071171
420 BLAZE IT

>>1071171
>>1071261
AYYY LMAO

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>>1071251

The safety factor should be adjusted based on the type of stress that it is likely to have. If the stress is consistent, then you won't need as high a safety factor as if you had a wildly fluctuating stress amplitude.

>>1071278
Fair. I spent a while sizing beams for households, and a typical factor of safety would be something like 1.5 when considering live loads but 1.25 or so when considering dead loads. It's been a while but that shouldn't have slipped my mind. Cheers!

>>1071280
Left if done with a nail I think.

On the right your force is perpendicular to the little wooden piece, so it's like shear force or something.

Wheras on the right it's trying to pull it out of the wood so it's tensile.

Tensile is usually a lot larger than shear. (strengthwise).

This assumes your nail or glue or whatever is infinitely strong.

Also you've got to take into account the grain of the material. (especially wood).

>>1067303
>>1067303
> not welding both sides to avoid ingress of water

>>1071117
Pocket holes make production helluva fast. You don't have to spend time learning and doing joinery. You don't have to wait for your glue to dry. Just drill, screw and you are on to your next step. This is the ONLY advantage of pocket screws.

>>1071818
>This assumes your nail or glue or whatever is infinitely strong.
Modern glue is stronger then the wood it's binding.