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Electric motor simulations

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Hello /diy/. What exactly goes on under the hood of computer software designed to simulate electrical machinery? I'm guessing it has something to do with calculating the magnetic field and moment at millions of infinitesimal volumes, then somehow deriving a force field, and then finally perhaps the torque on some central shaft?

But I really am clueless. Suppose that my only initial variables are the permeability of my materials, the geometry of the rotor and stator, and the current and voltage I wish to apply to the windings. How do I go from that to actually knowing the torque the motor can deliver? And what about the windings? Do these complex items actually get modeled according to their true geometry, or is there usually some kind of simplification like in pic related?

Thanks to anyone who answers. I just need some idea of the learning gap between knowing a bit about electrodynamic theory and actually designing my own motors.
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>>1048882
Time to go to university and do a PhD my friend.
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>>1048882
>something to do with calculating the magnetic field and moment at millions of infinitesimal volumes
what you do is generate a 'mesh' which is loads of polygons. for each polygon you then calculate the fields. there are algorithms for this you can look up but i can't remember the names its been a few years. then you look at whatever output you want say in your case the torque but thats quite specific and complicated to work out, usually the target is the current or voltage in some place.
then you make the mesh smaller and you start again. then you compare the results, if they are very different you make the mesh smaller and start again. and over and over and over and over until the difference between runs isn't that much, your 'delta' is small enough, and you can then say ok my mesh is pretty much small enough it won't get any better, i am pretty sure thats how the fields will behave.
I'm pretty sure you can get an old copy of maxwell (before it was ansys maxwell?) field simulator (in 2d though not 3d) for free because the licensing was a joke if you want to play around.
but i would say don't bother, the software will cost an arm and a leg and its probably all subscription based now anyway and its super shit and buggy and picky about how you define your surfaces and shit, you can draw things in 3d and get totally different results based on the order you draw them even though the final model is exactly the same. the longest simulation i ran took 2 months to run on 8 i7 cores and used over 256gb ram, it had to swap out into hdd space. the model was only about 20cm3.
you can get a good enough idea just by running the basic current/force equations and simplifying everything down.
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>>1048882
>electrodynamic theory and actually designing my own motors.

first of all, it's generally referred to as electromagnetics.

secondly, why do you want to design a motor?

finally, it is very expensive to make one custom motor. You will have to pay for tooling to make the laminations for the stator, and you will have to machine the stator and rotor to precise diameters to have a decent motor, and you will probably need custom shaped magnets for the rotor.

and as for that simulation crap. you have weeks if not months of studying motor design before you should even think about a 3-d magnetic simulation. Learn how to place windings and how to energize them. If you are just going to make a crude motor you are wasting your time in several ways. If you are going to make a sophisticated motor, you need to learn many concepts before you have anything to simulate.

I designed motors for about a decade, for satellites, the shuttle, and the space station. Once you have experience, you will have people from all over trying to hire you, because very few people in the world actually design motors from scratch. The flip side of this is that rarely will anyone want to teach you these skills.

To put this in perspective, you can make your own transistors at home far easier than you can make any decent motor.
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>>1048910
To be fair, your standard for "decent" is pretty high, probably referring to professionally made stuff.
Maybe OP wants a motor equivalent of that diy transistor you mentioned and just wants to play with simulation.
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Not OP, but I've had this dream for like 10+ years, to design electromechanical devices with motors and other actuators integrated in the body, like a robot arm where all the load bearing metal also has a electromagnetic function in the motors.

I guess I will have to wait a few more years for software to get better though.
Thread posts: 6
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