>Go to the hardware store for an adjustable wrench >Crescent

I've got an old Crescent from Jamestown, NY, and a Ridgid one from Ohio. I notice little difference to a shitty Westward one that I'm sure is Taiwanese.

I'm a welder, though, not a mechanic, so grains of salt.

>4 in.

>When did tools start getting so shitty?

When American labor and unions made goods prohibitively expensive to produce in the US. Since making and shipping a few million pounds of steel elsewhere is cheaper, why would an American company make it here?

Your $9 nut-fucker wrench would be on the order of $30 if it were American made. The average consumer looking at itemA and itemB of seemingly similar quality, why would you pay more?

Taxes and EPA and government regulation is much more lenient in Asian countries, labor is much lower, so production costs are much lower. Its like if your iphone or TV were made in the US, it would cost as much as a used car.

>>1042142
I've seen some Chinesium adjustable's that weren't terrible. They are a tiny minority, to be sure. I forget what bands they were, though.

Proto used to be good and many of their tools are still made in the USA. I've got an old one that is as good as any nut rounder can be. Amazon has them for about $15-$25 depending on size and finish.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/159-2940927-3514744?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=proto+adjustable+wrench

>>1042154
Taxes and regulations aren't nowhere near as relevant to end price as material and labor costs.

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>>1042142
I think Craftsman branded ones might still be made in USA by Western Forge, but it's possible they started sourcing from China since I last checked.

Williams still has USA-made adjustables and they're not very expensive.

There are plenty of good tools still in production, they're just not in mainstream stores any more with few exceptions.

If your area has them, you could try looking for decent old tools at Flea Markets. If not, there's always eBay or other websites for used/new USA-made tools.

>>1042163
>Proto used to be good and many of their tools are still made in the USA
I just got this Plomb (which is Proto before they became Proto) 10" with a 1947 date code yesterday for a few bucks.

>>1042154
>When American labor and unions made goods prohibitively expensive to produce in the US
Combined with the US Government being run by Globalist fucknuts who wrote the bad trade deals, such as NAFTA, that made exporting jobs from the USA possible.

Henry Kissinger should go down in history with the likes of Hitler for how he "opened" China to the West.

>>1042147
I live very close to Jamestown (within a half hour) so I'm curious where was it made

>>1042186
So by your logic Commodore Matthew Perry must have been Satan himself for opening Japan.

>>1042154
China sounds awesome, I wish I lived there

>>1042142
get a knipex pliers wrench.

thank me later

>>1042142
>When did tools start getting so shitty?

When your father started buying cheap imported tools 35 years ago.

>>1042142
Just because a tool is made in china, doesnt mean its shitty.
The #1 producer of goods in the world, with the newest factories with the least EPA control.

Their chrome is better than USA made tools chrome, because in 2008 the old chroming techniques became illegal in the USA.

>>1042142
When people started being cheap fucks.

>>1042186
>Combined with the US Government being run by Globalist fucknuts who wrote the bad trade deals, such as NAFTA, that made exporting jobs from the USA possible.

NAFTA doesn't have anything with tool manufacturing going to China, it was the North American Free Trade Agreement.

>>1042259
Well, as long as there were no tarriffs or taxes on foreign produced goods, then yes, cheaply produced items does have to do with the trade agreements forcing jobs overseas.

While we're on the subject, there is a market for cheap shit. Americans are content with buying a tool, using it once, then putting it away for 4 years. When they go to use it again, it breaks, so they buy another cheap piece of shit because they don't want to spend $200 on a wrench set, or $300 on a power tool. As long as theres a market, companies will continue to produce cheap shit designed to last a couple of uses knowing when it breaks, a replacement will be purchased. They're producing disposable tools just like so many of the other goods are disposable including cars. Its how toyota and honda got their foothold.

there are tools made in china better than you'll ever need, if you can't buy them at the hardware store that's a problem with your hardware store, not china

>>1042261
>as long as there were no tarriffs or taxes on foreign produced goods
Tariffs go both ways mate. The reason we got rid of them is because most of the things we make go to the export market, not domestic. We drop our tariffs and they drop theirs. It's also real hard to make something if we've pissed off our trading partners and they decide to stop selling us steel, or rubber or oil.

>disposable
>Its how Toyota and Honda got their foothold.
Right. Because companies in the US were making SHIT cars and got their lunch ate. Ford, Chrysler, GM, AMC, all made fucking garbage cars for decades. They were the kings of disposable cars. Then Japan and Germany showed up with cars that had 6 digits on the odometer, were well made, got good fuel economy and could pass emissions without having a 400 cubic inch engine that only produce 120 horsepower in 1980 (I'm looking at you, Ford). Honda designed a 12 valve, 4 cylinder engine so fuel efficient and clean burning that they didn't need to install catalytic converters into their cars until many years after they were required elsewhere. We don't even need to talk about the reliability of Toyota.

>>1042271
>reliability of Toyota.

They were great back the why are the cars they making shit now?

What happened?

>>1042276
What makes you say that?
Cars as a whole have gotten much more reliable.

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>still using adjustable wrenches
>being surprised that everything is made in china
>current year

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>>1042142
I've got a couple I bought 25 years ago before I knew anything about tools or how to use them properly, I honestly try to avoid using an adjustable wrench as much as possible, if I must use an adjustable then I try to use one like the one pictured.

>>1042154

Dont forget when CEO's decided that making more then everyone was just not enough and they needed to make more in a month their their grunt workers could ever dream of making in their entire lives.

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>>1042400
One of our best tool manufacturers in Australia (Sidchrome) was bought by Americans in the mid 80s, within 3 years all the shit was shut down and being manufactured in China :(
Think the only one left which is local (http://www.suttontools.com/) still manufactures here, we've got a handful of other specialist groups that do premium power tools, but that's about it.

>>1042142
When we wanted Barney's of New York, but only want to pay Walmart prices. This is true of everything. You want quality, you had to pay for it. Most of the burgerfuckers around here don't want to pay money for anything.

>>1042237
if you need to use them often, then yes.

>>1042142
Says made in Germany on mine.

how do you tell the quality of a tool from another?
I usually get cheap tools at LIDL (http://www.lidl.de/de/powerfix/b1746) they look good for the price, and I don't know if todays tool is all made in china anyway.
there's a good brand here where I live, but they seem to overprice the products

>>1042142
shit tier tool for noobs and the desperate.

>>1042259
>NAFTA doesn't have anything with tool manufacturing going to China, it was the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Still fucked American labor by allowing companies to easily outsource everything to Mexico.

>>1042154
is that why intel is so fucking expensive?

I've got a bunch of older tensioners and wrenches that were made in West Germany. Good shit

>>1042367
That's hot

>Americans
>don't make any goods
>don't make their own tools

>China
>makes all the goods
>makes all their own tools
Hmm who should I trust, some fuck that says "buy American goy!" whose tools have never been used for anything or the chink who has to use a tool 1000x a day because he's making furniture for everyone on the planet by himself

>>1042569
>is that why intel is so fucking expensive?

Monopoly on the market is why Intel is so expensive.
I mean they manufacture their shit in Costa Rica and Malaysia

>>1042142
>When did tools start getting so shitty?
At the point when the manufacturers noticed that producing too good tools decreases their income, as people buy a wrench every 50 years instead of every 5 years.

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>>1042142

>>1042400
Oh boy here we go with executives getting paid more than the manual laborers argument.

The executives come up with the ideas and methods of increasing profits to the owners including shareholders. If they can bring in an extra million in profit by firing all the American workers and sending production to china, then the owners reward the CEO who figured that shit out.

>hurr durr thats greedy corporate money in front of murican workers!

Spoiler: Companies exist to make money. It isn't about pride of being an American company, it isn't about making American products, it isn't about employing Americans, the company exists to make a profit. So if they can reduce input costs of labor and materials, of course they will.

>>1042186
Sorry about free trade? It's the natural result: Educated and developed countries do the complicated stuff and come up with new ideas and such (due to the fact that by having plenty educated and highly trained workers, a developed nation is suited for this kind of work) and the less developed countries take over the less complex work. In general at least.

>>1042620
Its still greedy and morally corrupt to profit from the suffering of others. But thats how it is, thanks globalist jew.

>>1042655
>suffering of others

They signed up for that work willingly.

>>1042276
>They were great back the why are the cars they making shit now?

increases in safety and emission standards.

>>1042259
It wasn't NAFTA, it was the (N)orth (A)merican (F)ree (T)rade (A)greement? Intadesting.

>>1042659
Emphasis on North American. It was an agreement between the US, Canada, and Mexico. It didn't have anything to do with China.

buy used tools
when they were made with real steel

> toyota being a "disposable" car
i guess all cars are, but at what time is the the question
toyotas and WV's ive seen with over 500,000km farrrrrrrr surpass any domestic brand

but its also funny you would bring up toyota and honda

because for a car to be considered domestic, it needs to be 75% of its shit, made in america
this is called the AMI or american made index

and the top producers of the most american made cars, aswell as employing the most american workers in their respective plants are as follows
this is the 2016 list of most american vehicles

1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Toyota Sienna
4. Honda Odyssey
5. Honda Pilot
6. Chevrolet Traverse
7. GMC Acadia
8. Buick Enclave

america did it to themselves
america is decadent and wasteful

>>1042664
Ahh, gotcha. I'm literally retarded, just ignore me.

>>1042142
I bought a Craftsman adjustable wrench set in Sears about a year ago. All made in the USA. I've been very satisfied with them. The jaw doesn't wobble nearly as much as most other brands. I'm an inside wireman mostly working in industrial and large-scale commercial settings -- I haven't the Craftsman wrenches rounding out bolts and nuts (like adjustable wrenches are known to do).

On the topic of shitty tools in stores, here's my advice:

Go to yard sales and estate sales every weekend. I've gotten most of my hand tools from these places (all of which are American made), for dirt cheap. The crazy thing is: they're oftentimes better than what you'll find at the store these days. Stuff like linesman's pliers and wire strippers (basically anything that cuts) is iffy and hard to find -- mostly due to the fact that these tools wear out rapidly over time. But I've found some fantastic saws, pliers, and wrenches that I still use daily. Oftentimes they just need a good cleaning and a spray of oil, and they're good as new.

I don't know what it is about tool manufacturing today, but it seems like the quality has become worse, no matter the brand. Even Klein has begun to disappoint me. When you're out at those yard sales, keep an eye out for the following brands: Diamond, Vulcan, and Trimont. All of them have become part of the Apex Tool Co. blob, but I guess they were top brands back in the day. I rely on my flea-market-find Diamond adjustable pliers more than my Channel Locks.

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>>1042665
>That feel when my Ford focus, my e250 and my transit were made in mexico

>>1042667
Yea, but it's made of materials made in China. There is no avoiding this anymore. Even raw materials come from China. I'm not saying the product has any less value because of that, but that even 'made in America's things are made of Chinese companies materials.

>>1042410
Finkal punches I think has gone over to Taiwan. All of Suttons entry level lines are made in asia as well.

Dawn vices restarted in Aus, but they charge like $400 dollars for a 100mm vice.

Masters is selling some Crescent branded tools that are "made in Aus" but part of me suspects that sticking the handle on chinese parts counts as made in australia.

Stanley also killed the Turner group which made good screwdrivers and hacksaws etc.

Make sure you support your local manufacturers and fuck Stanley.

>>1042665
>farrrrrrrr surpass any domestic brand

I dont like this meme, mostly because its just not true.
The people who hold this idea also think that 150k miles is a "lot", and that 300k miles (your 500km marker) is wholly unobtainable by the vast majority of cars.

Some cars are inherently shit, but most are not maintained correctly.

Doesnt change the fact that I had a dodge caravan with 320k miles that I slammed into a deer.
I lived in a place with a lot of highway driving, nobody I knew had a car with less than 200k miles. And NOBODY drove anything but GMs and Fords.

>>1042665
>implying any of those leaps in reliability were because of japanese ingenuity

it was an american who came up with a really novel quality control system for manufacturing. when he pitched his ideas to Detroit they told him to get the fuck out. he did. to Japan. the japanese went bonkers for that guys ideas and so began the reign of Japanese reliability.

>>1042673
Highway driving does not stress cars as much as stop-start driving for the same distance traveled. Secondly a domestic car will likely have cheaper parts so even if it is less reliable it can be more cost effective to run it for higher kilometers.

Also everywhere else in the world thinks that american cars are almost overwhelmingly shit.

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>>1042682
>tfw all the best american cars aren't sold in america

also, why the fuck can't you get a good small truck anymore? the mazda B series were great. why does nobody make them anymore?

>>1042682
>Highway driving does not stress cars as much as stop-start driving for the same distance traveled.

Nobody said it was, yet everyone clamoring about how many miles their car has, has a long commute.

The rest is just conjecture you are making up based upon your biases.
>wear parts are cheaper for a certain car so they are more unreliable!
>at the same time giving me a list of cars with "most american cars" with domestic parts filled with "import" cars
Which is really funny because you are talking about how great VWs are... Biggest piece of garbage money pits out there.

You make a real compelling argument, surprised you didnt call them amerifat cars, or burgerland cars. As if it has any bearing in reality.

>>1042686
they barely made them in the first place, but yeah rangers / b series were nice little trucks, just get a toyota tacoma

>>1042678
do not confuse reliability with quality control. they are not the same thing.

toyota and honda, do not use six sigma either , because its a faggy management tool

>>1042673
well, it is a thing, and it is true weather you like it or not. 500km shouldnt be a lot but when you live in the rust belt and specifically where i live, which is highly corrosive in the winter, it becomes plain as day who makes top car. you obviously live in a rural ass area that probably doesnt get salted or sprayed. maintenance is one thing, but not the only thing. because DEX-COOL, bail-outs, and china/mexico,

gm has been making shit cars since the early 2000's

>>1042691
>you obviously live in a rural ass area that probably doesnt get salted or sprayed.

I live smack in the middle of the rust belt.
You either hit a deer with your car or it succumbs to rust. You dont retire a car because of an engine failure.

>still crying about dex-cool

Dexcool was NOT a problem, people not doing coolant changes was the problem.
We still use a coolant very similar to DexCool in every single car made today.

And
>muh bailouts

While every other car manufacturer took money for "green initiatives" and other horse shit. The government handed EVERYONE stupid amounts of money.

>>1042686
>why the fuck can't you get a good small truck anymore? the mazda B series were great. why does nobody make them anymore?

Laws about fleet MPG
Bigger vehicles can get less MPG without a penalty.
Its why all trucks are getting larger.

You cant even get a regular cab full size truck anymore

>>1042688
thats not me, i dont use capital letters

Vw's are nazi shit and i hate them, and i hate working on them. german engineers are assholes. but the fact is ive seen way more VW's with over 500km than "domestic" cars


>at the same time giving me a list of cars with "most american cars" with domestic parts filled with "import" cars

i dont get what you are trying to say here. but what i am telling you is, all those cars i listed, 75% or more of the car were made/manufactured in north america
so, those cars are more domestic than anything else made this year

and the only 3 american company vehicles, are all made on the same platform

cost of operation is factored into what makes a good car. if a car is domestic, and parts are cheaper, the cost of operation becomes lower. im not contesting that.

>>>1042692
>While every other car manufacturer took money

im not that short sighted. im not talking recently. in the past 100 years GM and crystler took more government bailouts than ford, who has taken no bail outs.


and dont tell me dex cool wasnt the problem
yeah, not changing the coolant was the problem, not changing it back to the green was the problem.
yeah, we do use HYBRID OAT coolant.

when a auto maker makes a fucking product for 10 years, that literally destroys nylon and rubber seals, and is found at fault in an international lawsuit, and dodged paying out that lawsuit because they filed for bankruptcy

but yeah GM DINDU NUFFIN

>>1042695
I was pointing out to the guy who said
>a domestic car will likely have cheaper parts so even if it is less reliable it can be more cost effective to run it for higher kilometers.

Funny how all the "import" cars have domestic parts in them.

>and dont tell me dex cool wasnt the problem

It wasnt the problem.
Not changing the engine seals to accommodate Dexcool was the problem.

There was only a 3 year period where the seals were failing. Dexcool was introduced in 1995, by 1998 the seals were all switched over.
And remember, it ONLY made seals fail if you were running your coolant low. If your coolant was topped up, you didnt have a problem.

>>1042697
>Funny how all the "import" cars have domestic parts in them.

welllllll, not really. there is no "domestic/import part" part manufactures just make parts. they have no boarders Denso, bosch, valeo,magna they all just make parts, anywhere in the world, for any automaker

but "domestic parts" are not the same as parts made domestically

import cars with domestic parts in more like mazda

import cars with parts made domestically is more like toyota honda


>Funny how all the "import" cars have domestic parts in them.

its more the opposite that is true and funny, but also sad.
and GM isnt GM anymore. GM died a long time ago, but it officially died in 2009

>>1042670
If you look up FTC regulations when it comes to "Made in USA" labeling, they're actually pretty strict. For something like a tool in which the quality of the metal is an integral part of the product, the metal it's made from actually has to be made in USA as well in order for the tool to be labeled made in USA at all.

You can argue that companies might be disregarding the law and getting away with it, and I really don't have any evidence to the contrary nor would it surprise me at all, but I just want to believe that's not usually the case.

>>1042709
Forgot to mention I think they made these laws stricter in more recent years (maybe sometime in the 90s) or at least started enforcing them more strictly. From what I've read there was actually a lot more false or questionable "Made in USA" tools and other stuff in the 80s/90s than there is today. There was a whole thing about Stanley getting in trouble for labeling tools as Made in USA when they were barely doing anything to them in the US.

just for the record, the US still has more manufacturing output than any other country. its the manufacturing jobs that aren't there anymore.

Does anyone else see "Made in America" as a negative?

Whenever I see this touted on a product, I immediately know that the price is going to be at least ~30% higher in price, but with the exact same Chinese quality that you get from less expensive.

Lots of little loopholes allow companies to label certain products as American made as long as they are simply assembled in the US.

I also love it when I buy an American made product, and they inevitably have a customer service center full of poojets outside of the US.

>>1042584
They do part of the work in america

>>1042717
The key is simply to not be blinded by country of origin no matter what it is. COO is important to me but "Made in USA" is far from the only thing I look for when purchasing products. I will only buy USA-made when the product is actually good and priced reasonably, but if that's the case then I definitely prefer to buy USA-made, or second to that from other countries that have more fair trade and environmental regulations than places like China.

I also buy a lot of old/used stuff so I know I'm not really supporting current American or other jobs by doing that, but it is also very important to me to respect the Earth and try not to encourage wasting resources making unnecessary new stuff, especially cheap stuff that will end up in landfills after a year.

I just wish we could stop with all this greed and "muh jobs" and just all work together to try to live decent lives while minimizing our damage to the planet.

>>1042722

I buy almost all of my tools at flea markets.

You can get entire sets of brand new tools, like Knipex, for pennies on the dollar.

People will sell old video games and other vintage things for more than it cost when it was new, but tools seem to hold no value to the majority of people

>>1042725
I've found a lot of good stuff at flea markets over the years, but unfortunately at least in my area "pennies on the dollar" scores are extremely rare and overpriced tools are common. Still, I'm always happy to get a few nice USA tools that I have a use for for far less than brand new or even used eBay prices.

>>1042717
No. I see it as "its not chink shit, probably has a life time warranty, has that warranty for a reason, and its good that there are still real jobs in america"

>>1042725
Nice.
Fleamarkets here are more like industrialized yard sales with the same people "trynna make a livin ya no". They think ever peice of shit they bought at an auction should sell for however much its going for at lowes.

They also try to jew you hard. Once tried to sell an item at a flea market, it was valued at about $200 used, guy price checked it infront of me and then offered me $15 for it. Went somewhere else and they tried the same shit.

>>1042725
Estate sales my friend. That is where the good stuff is at. Flea markets, at least in my area, tend to be for whatever is left over. I know a guy who runs estate sales and he literally sells everything left over in bulk to some people that are in the local flea market circuit.

>>1042739
For goods that are not priced my general guideline is 50% of retail or less. If something sold new for $100 and it's still in good shape I will offer $25. Maybe haggle a bit but I would top out at $50. If they want more than that I will walk away. My reasoning is I can get brand new tools at 50% off if there is a killer sale going on, so I'm not going to offer more than that for something used.

>>1042737
Harbor Freight hand tools also have a lifetime warranty. So it's not worth what it once was. Especially since Wards went under and Sears is looking to go the same way if they don't get their shit together.

>>1042686
You can, just not in the US.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/

>>1042657

And then globalist fuckwits made sure they got a 10 foot iron stick shoved up their ass and shipped those jobs off to china.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw