Now that the dust has settled...

No, he was kind of an idiot once he got underway. Inhuman torture camps, trafficking with eldritch horrors, hiring genuine monster criminals for his administration, etc, etc.

Should have just stuck with best boy Zemo and he could've really done it.

There's one thing I don't get... He left the US very early on, and was indoctrinated by HYDRA, who had plans for world domination. He spent all of his youth in that weird island/remote location/whatever. So why did all he talk about during his tenure as SHIELD Commander/HYDRA Supreme was the US? "This country" this and "this country" that. Wasn't the whole point that he wanted to remake the world in HYDRA's image? Why was he so fixated on the US?

No. His dream could never have come true, even with the Cosmic Cube. The whole story he kept being in situations where he would say "just this one more immoral thing and then things will be fine", kept having to make moral sacrifices for the greater good, kept having his allies pursuing their own agendas.

See, on the basic level, HydraCap is still the same as regular Cap; he believes people are basically good. He's idealistic. He doesn't want to believe that no matter what he does, there will always be dissenters and pockets of rebellion popping up, there will always be people more interested in serving themselves than serving the greater good, and the only way to reduce that is by taking away further liberties.

That should have been how he failed instead of the Avengers winning through deus ex machina asspulls. As it is he outsmarted and outgunned the good guys at every single opportunity and STILL lost, which is not a satisfying story.

>>95357128

Who cares.

>>95357547
People.

>>95357156
I guess.

>>95357327
Pretty good analysis anon.

>>95357224
Interesting observation.

/ourguy/ is either Hellboy or white Nick Fury

>>95357128
I'm not going to be detail with this post because other anons did that already so all I'm going to say is, 'NAH DOG. That bitch bout "/ourguy/" as not "/ourguy/" at all'. Then I'm going to follow it up by calling you a rude name 'You fucking retard for thinking so'. Lastly I'm going to state my opinion on this comic 'Cuz it fucking suck ass'.

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>>95357737
I vote Hellboy

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>>95357128
No.

>>95357899
>DRUMPF BTFO

Can somebody tell me what the hell his government plan was past "HYDRA"? Was it State-Regulated Capitalism? Fascist Communism? What?

>>95358255
I'm guessing having his shit promoted from crossover to full event, and the pushback from nazi cap fucked with spenser's plans.

>>95357128
No. He's a goddamned Nazi fuck.

>>95358421
>HYDRA
>Nazis

Pick one.

>>95358444
Fuck no. Hydra is a subset of Nazis. I used the broader term and not the narrower one.

>>95357128

Not my Cap.

>>95357224
uhh, bad writing probably.

>>95359118
I'd blame it on editorial. What started as a classic "world domination" story, just HAD to be tied down to US politics. Considering HYDRA!Cap's origin, he shouldn't give much of a shit about the US in and of itself.

>>95357721
>People.
No, vermin.

>>95357224
>Why was he so fixated on the US?
If I had to guess, it's because he still had all of the original Steve's memories.

>>95357128
As much as I hate to say it, Hydra Cap had a point. After years as fan of comics, I can't avoid to see his point. I mean, it's over and over the same thing in comics. Heroes and Villains battle, heroes defeat villains, villains imprisoned, villains escape and they star over again.

The only way to put an end to this insanity would be eliminate the villains once and for all. But heroes avoid that because of morals, so they perpetuate the endless circle of violence forever.

Batman's refuse to killing the Joker is an excellent proof, after all the people he have cripped, tortured of killed. And Injustice 2 proofs that point, with Batman wanting to perpetuate the chaos while Superman wants to put an end once and for all.

>>95357224
He was suppose to be Steve. That's what I thought this whole thing was about that he still did everything as Steve Rodgers.

>>95357128

>Was he Right?

No.

>Could he have created a better world?

No.

>Was he /ourguy/?

This is /co/, not /pol/.

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right about what exactly? and yeah he could have made a better world with his easy Do over cube much like president stark

>>95357128
He's the hero we need, but not the one the writers think we deserve.

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>>95357128
No, dictatorships and such while they might force stability for a while only end in a dismal existence, just look at Russia. All the power one could hope for in a central government and they're always a few steps away from being a third world shithole.
All the little things you enjoy just doing because why not, pigging out on fast food, dicking around in some random park, does it seem like an oppressive regime would let you do so?
I am sort of /pol/ing out with this stuff, but honestly I don't see what such idiots think is going to happen after they reach the top. Congratulations, everyone fucking hates you, enjoy living the rest of your life in extreme paranoia about who's trying to poison your food or whatever else.

>>95359987
>The only way to put an end to this insanity would be eliminate the villains once and for all. But heroes avoid that because of morals, so they perpetuate the endless circle of violence forever.

That argument would work a lot better if it weren't for the fact that killing villains usually just has them coming back to life later even more pissed off, or someone comes in and replaces them and creates just as much trouble, if not more.

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>>95361563
>there is a universe where Carol kept wearing that outfit

>>95364755
It doesn't help that villains have to keep coming back to sell issues, so moral preaching or whatever the fuck it is don't really mean shit, they are all even less than pawns on a chessboard.

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>>95357128

Don't care. Looks like someone's picking her nose.

>>95357128
no.
he didn't even night of long knives the batshit radicals he knew would betray him if he didn't do what they wanted

Is he still alive?

>>95366703
Yes

>>95357128
I think he needed a better Council. His "comrades" were incompetent morons.

>>95357128
Hey Nick Spencer. I see you're shilling for your book a little late. Next time use your twitter to advertise your books, instead of bitching about yet another dumbass president.

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>Cap gets memories altered by Red Skull via Cosmic Cube
>Red Skull specifically says he altered Cap's memories
>part of Cap's memories includes some woman
>woman kills his parents
>Cap KNOWS she killed his parents
>does whatever she says
>Zemo is his best bud in altered memories
>Zemo believes every bit of Cap's memories and teams up
>rando woman who killed Cap's parents from the falsified memories shows up out of no where
>she's a witch
>she revives Cthullu?
>Zola buys into Cap's story
>not one telepath is around to scan Steve's brain, espeically not Emma who is in the same room as him multiple times
>Kobik brings to life a second Cap who fights Hydra Cap
What the fuck was this event? Did the Cube change his memories as Skull said or did he actually just rape the timeline and create a witch to kill Steve's parents? I don't even remember if that Cthulu beast was explained. We got two Steve Rodgers hanging around now too, so what the fuck is up with this? The 'hero' cap is still just some figment of the true Steve's mind isn't he? God I'm so confused.

>>95357128
Considering Hydra supposedly valued strength and human spirit, they really hid behind advanced weaponry and keikaku bullshit.

I never got why they had Good Steve to beat up Evil Steve if the event was to cement Sam as the one true Cap.

>>95369847
That got called almost instantly after the reveal of hydracap. They changed the story in response to avoid looking like hacks.

>>95369847
because sam sucks

>>95369918
I'm not arguing that, it just seemed off to have an event stroking Sam as THE CAP when they had the original Cap show up in the last second to beat up the big bad.

>>95369875
Anyone know what the original ending was supposed to be?

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>>95357128
He has valid points. Doesn't mean this event is worthwhile. You could easily change him out for Red Skull, Zemo, or Zola and still have sent the same message.
That said, I sincerely believe this to be Cap's best look. Give him back the shield and it would have been legendary. Fight me.

>>95370028
what a spooky skeleton chasing after him.

>>95370048
How come Sharon looks awful now?

>>95357128
No

No

Not unless you're a fascist.

>>95359987
>The only way to put an end to this insanity would be eliminate the villains once and for all.

But it doesn't stop new super villains from being born. And if you kill every villain you encounter, you just make villains more unhinged and reckless since they know they have nothing to lose if they are defeated so might as well be as reckless abd destructive as possible.

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>>95358444

>>95368569
>or did he actually just rape the timeline and create a witch to kill Steve's parents?
Well that is what a Cosmic Cube should do. It doesn't make you think change happens, it makes it a reality. Falcon doesn't think he talks to bird, it didn't cast a magic spell or make him a mutant that talks to bird. It rewrote him to be a normal everyday human that talks to birds. So the idea with this is that Cap has broken out of every mind control Red Skull has done to Cap. So if he instead rewrote reality then it wouldn't be mind control so Cap wouldn't be able to snap out of it.

Then the Cosmic Cube was a broken one who was a crazy little girl, so who knows if she did it right at all.

(Obviously) NO

>>95370134
Spent like, 10 or 15 years in an alternate dimension. It was only a minute of real world time, but you know, dimensions be tripping.

>>95371626
How come her tits are still perky?

>>95368569
Reality was warped too. Rather than just tampering with Steve's memory, Kobik went an extra step to explain how those memories could have even existed by tweaking reality slightly in a way that wouldn't tamper with the current continuity. In this case, it was adding details like "the Allies were about to lose in WWII but used a Cosmic Cube to change reality to one where they'd win". That effectively keeps things the same, but explains how Hydra Cap's memories could have been a reality.

So the timeline was altered, but in a way where it still led to the current Marvel Universe. Hydra Cap knew all of that, and believed that the "real" reality was the one that Hydra won in. Hence him trying to use the Cosmic Cube himself to change it.

It's convoluted and feels almost meta. As if a character gained awareness that a writer changed their continuity and backstory to something else retroactively, thought that the current continuity was all wrong, and tried to take measures to restore what they knew to be the true reality again.

If you still don't understand, I don't blame you. The whole thing can get pretty confusing.

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>>95357128

Nope. You can trust in Steve for sure, no matter where he sits on the Good<->Evil scale. But to enforce his vision he had Hydra backing him up and they're as flawed as fuck. Had it succeeded the whole thing would have been already crumbling from within due to financial and political corruption, unnecessary cruelty, totalitarian inefficiency, and Otto/Modok's mad science.

Taskmaster had it right with the "Ya hear that? I know that Boom" thing.

>>95357224
>>95357721
actualy the my country thing is realy realist. think about. jews have not lived in palestine for 2k years. And still call it theirs. There were actually more generations of jews that never lived in palestine, then those that actually did.
Not a jew specific thing by the way, my dudes cry about lands that haven't been ours for 300years. Serbians happen to have the craddle of their nations history in the middle of musllim controled territory, think NY and DC suddenlly ending up in Russia.

>>95372887
I never understand the cruelity totalitarian argument. if you control everything, the whole planet then there is no place for corruption or cruelity to happen. because everyone is doing what they should be, and if they do not then the cruelity is not unnecessary. The efficiency argument is also wack. If you control the whole planet, efficiency doesn't matter as much. It only matters, if you have enemies like US or NATO undermining you.

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>USA is ruled by Nazi Cap and terrorist organisation
>the rest of the world doesn't give shit
Top tier writing tbqh

>>95357899
If he had never been worthy, how did he pick it up the first time?

Isn't Hydra Cap the original Steve while the guy who defeated him is a clone based on an ideal vision of Cap?
I'm still confused about this.

>>95373972
No, they're both Cap after being fucked with by Kobik in different ways.

The Cap who defeated him is much closer to the original Cap.

>>95373972
The Hydra one is the altered one. Kobik just kept the original's pattern/memories around just because.

>>95373902
Cheat by cosmic cube fragment.

>>95374020
>>95374043
So if I'm getting this right, the original body of Steve had his mind changed/altered, but kobik keep the original mind around and made a new body for it to defeat Hydra Cap. Is that it?

>>95374078
Kinda? The original body of Steve was altered too. He was deaged (the original aging was bullshit anyway) and had his memories changed to believe in an alternate history that never happened.

You can easily handwave it by saying Kobik swapped out the bodies, too.

>>95373863
Wasn't there a shield? Last issue showed that when the shield went down everyone came bursting in.

>>95374063
I thought the hammer can't be tampered anymore since it became sentient, even Odin isn't able to control it.

>>95374101
Man, overall I think Steve got really fucked over in this story. Poor guy didn't deserve it.

>>95374116
Odin is low tier cosmic in the end

>>95374078
Kobik alters reality. There's no original this or that. She changed Rogers's memories, and those of everyone else, and then any other physical evidence when she instituted the Hydra reality and history. She just keeps backups/restore points so she can bring it all back just as easily too. When she decided to bring Steve's original mind-self back she had it appear in another body because watching a guy beat himself up would have everyone watching thinking of Fight Club. She didn't totally restore the previous savegame though because she's let everyone remember and realise what had happened.

I've still got files in backup dating back to my first PC: a 486DX2 in the mid90s. Can't use them any more but I still keep them around because... reasons? I suppose. Forte Agent 16-bit client for reading usenet...

>>95374158
Yeah but supposedly the hammer is his creation/has his enchantments.

>>95374130
Absolutely.