Which one is better?

Better at what?
Being an asshole?

Show? Character?

They're both villains. Bojack is a more mature exploration of depression and self-destruction, and a character that actually has the desire and (debatable) capacity for change.

>>95320670
>They're both villains.

They're both protagonists.

>>95321389
those terms aren't mutually exclusive

>>95320529
Between the two? Bojack.
If not forced answer, then XRA.

>>95321477
Except they are. Antihero is the word you're looking for.

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>>95320529
Goddamn it.
So I found a picture fucking ages ago that someone made of combining these two characters into "Bojack Rickman" and I can't fucking find it to save my life FUCK.

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>>95320529
Bojack Horseman is a better show and Bojack is a better written character

>>95321389
Villains can be protagonists, "protagonist" does not indicate morality, just that they're the active force in the story that is opposed by the antagonist (who antagonizes them).

>>95321389
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhzN7SfnNeY

>>95321552
That is incorrect. For a character to be a protagonist, they simply have to be the main character of their story.

>>95321608
this

>>95320529
Bojack is an actual character, Rick is just the animated embodiment of the creators inflated egos.

>>95321603
this

>>95320529
You're willing to give either of them the title of, "better"? That shows how little you know either of these characters. They both are at the very bottom of the barrel, they're both just occupying different sides of it.

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>>95321603
Yeah.

>>95320529
Better show?
Better character?
Better villian?
Better protagonist?
Come on anon be specific

>>95321752
>they're both just occupying different sides of it

What does that mean?

>>95321773
They're two different characters with different problems, yet no better than each other in terms of being a broken, unfixable person.

>>95320529
Bojack

although honestly I think its fair to say Rick and Morty has better individual episodes and Bojack has better overall seasons

Bojack is a better show

>>95321832
>>95321758
>>95321603
Then explain how an entire season of Bojack getting dropped has a handful of threads but each week's Rick and Morty episode results in /co/ getting swamped with threads?

>>95322050
argumentum ad populum

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I think R&M is probably the better comedy, but BoJack is the better show overall. They both do the "irreverent humor with a dark undercurrent" thing, but with R&M, that dark undercurrent is just there. Sometimes it's prominent, sometimes it isn't, but it's rarely meaningful in any way, unless you count acknowledging nihilism as insightful in and of itself. When BoJack gets bleak (and to be fair, it does this far more frequently than R&M, to the point that I'd almost say BoJack is a drama first and a comedy second), it actually has something to say about it. It's not empty cynicism, but it's not the other side of that point of view, either. It's complex.

Also, BoJack had that great All Rings Considered joke this season, that puts it over the top for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGalix-sVXs

best scene of the new season, I love that thought bubble artstyle

>>95320529
I prefer Rick and Morty. IMHO the humor and animation are both far superior and Bojack goes way overboard in trying to be depressing. Also shame on them for killing off best character Sarah Lynn.

>>95322050
popularity =/= quality

why do we still have to explain this?

also everyone can find time to watch 30 minutes of R&M a week and talk about it but if someone doesn't have the time to watch 6 hours of Bojack they probably won't be in threads until they finish it, basically the netflix model leads to people watching shows in their own time instead of everyone doing at the same time leading to less concentrated discussion

>>95320529
I'll play devil's advocate and say that I think bojack, while good, does tend to follow the same pattern every season. It's on season 4 and it's the same shit we got in season 1

>>95322204
It's shocking how depression and substance abuse can't be kicked in a single season, huh?

>>95320529
Television was the worst invention ever, it only brought out the worst in humanity.

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>>95320529
This beat pretty much everything in Bojack S4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02_1G2ABIeI

>>95322204
All the critics say it only began to get interesting at season 2. Ironically, I think the first season had the best comedy. My favorite line was "Maybe some of the troops are heroes but not automatically, I'm sure a lot of the troops are jerks; Most people are jerks already, and it's not like giving a jerk a gun and telling him it's okay to kill people suddenly turns that jerk into a hero. "

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I like Rick and Morty better overall but so far i've enjoyed the bojack s4 a lot more than r&m s3. Then again they still have 3 episodes left and if thy're all tales from the citadel-level of quality my opinion could change.

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>our marriage is a magic eye poster
>and I'm tired of staring

>>95322236
so how many seasons, in your opinion, should it take for a character on bojack to make a significant change? a decade?

>>95322372
>and I'm tired of staring

It's "squinting" you faggot.

>>95322293
Uh oh evil memey turning reddit into a DRUMPFKIN!

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>>95322050
Because Rick and Morty is today's Futurama. It's trying to elicit feelings with little to no pay off while disguising itself as a "comedy show".
The difference between these two shows is that Rick and Morty makes its viewers feel smarter than they actually are.
Where Bojack makes its viewer feel like shit and forcing them to take a look at themselves with showing how petty someone can be and never rewarding that behavior. Rick and Morty does the opposite by trying to be cathartic and showing how much can be accomplished by being a narcissistic asshole.

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>>95322405

>>95322050

Because one of these shows is a vessel for shitty memes aimed at the lowest common denominator and the other is Bojack Horseman.

>>95322236
Sad how progress made is smashed at the end of a season. Seriously, Bojack's tenancy to destroy everything he builds is grading on me. I had to stop mid season 4 to take a good long look at the Netflix mini icon for the series to say to myself, "the point is that he can't change. It's not in his capacity."

But a stone and moss, and all that. It's tiring to want someone to change and watch them time and time again fall short.

>>95320529
Bojack is a way better tv series than Rick and Morty

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>>95321570
This?

Are you a pretentious little faggot who craves edgy man-baby philosophy from a cartoon? You can get that from both.
Do you also want hyper-violence with enough zany unrestricted magical sci-fi bullshit you might accidentally have fun? Go with Rick & Morty, it's more popular specifically because of that reason.

>>95322490
>It's tiring to want someone to change and watch them time and time again fall short.
Welcome to the side-issue of depression. Nobody wants to really help you, not for long.

>>95320529
Bojack, he is an asshole but at least he is not an asshole mary sue like Rick

>>95322490
>Sad how progress made is smashed at the end of a season.
If you haven't finished Season 4 yet, let me just tell you to keep watching. You may be surprised.

I'd shoot myself at the gate of the airport.

>>95322397
Meh, maybe about six years and counting

>>95322050
Hitler was popular too, are you saying you love hitler?

>>95322554
All depends on cooperation. If you wallow, you sink. There is a healthy point where you need to stop shouldering other people's troubles, lest you develop a crippling set of your own.

>>95322593
you accidentally left your trip on friend

>>95321603
As someone who loves Rick and Morty, this is true.

>>95322616
Was meant for >>95322522

>>95322429
>trying to be cathartic and showing how much can be accomplished by being a narcissistic asshole.
But every time Rick's assholish narcissism gets the better of him he gets fucked up hard, like the Unity episode
The Toxic Rick episode flat out stated that his toxic side keeps bitching about not being in charge all the time but both healthy and toxic rick know if toxic rick was in charge they'd be dead in 5 minutes

>>95322643
But Rick still gets to be a huge badass hero beloved by his family even though he's an alcoholic asshole. Bojack doesn't get that. Bojack just gets to be sad. Then he has to change.

>>95322522
>>95322566
i'm getting some hints here, anon
my point still stands, it's not very interesting to watch and that's why so much time is spent away from bojack in the show

>>95322617
I'm shitposting on purpose so I can get banned.

>>95322675
Jerry tried to murder him, Beth is a co-dependent daddy-issue cass, Summer is using him as a vehicle for escapism, and Morty, while half-willing and half-kidnapped each time he goes with Rick, also has to adapt to a whole slew of bullshit just to survive

None of them have a good relationship with Rick

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Bojack Horseman
>Characters have depth, develop through Arcs and are always changing
>Humor is a mixture of puns, subtle wordplay, call backs and character humor.
>Actually engages in existential philosophy. Doesn't boil it all down to LOL LIFE IS MEANINGLESS XD
>Characters are lovable because they're relatable, not necessarily because they're cool or do "awesome" things
>Episodes can be very experimental and fresh
>Audiences can expect pay offs to plotlines
Rick and morty
>Characters have no depth, and if you think they do you're wrong. CHARACTER DEPTH IS STUPID ANYWAY LOL
>Same jokes over and over and over.
>Nothing experimental. Recycles the same Episode tropes like going inside someone's body or "marital troubles" ad infinitum
>Thinks equating love to chemical reactions is the height of intellectualism
>Audience is constantly betrayed by having interesting character moments be revoked at the last moment. Can't take itself seriously at all
>BURRRP MORTY AD LIBBING IS SO FUNNY SHWING SHAWNG PLUMBUS DOOPY DOO

>>95322685
>it's not very interesting to watch

Disagree with you there. I would be disappointed if the show just had an upward trend of improvement from beginning til end.

>that's why so much time is spent away from bojack in the show

That's one part giving the side characters more screentime since S1 and also to show how each of their lives don't go perfectly without Bojack in their life. In fact, it's a bit of a reversal with Bojack seeing positive growth while his friends' lives have gotten worse.

>>95322787
And yet they all love him and don't want him to change, Jerry notwithstanding. Seriously, all of them except Jerry are willing to sacrifice their homes and lives to protect Rick from the federation. Jerry is the LOSER because he is anti-Rick.

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Both are boring and terrible representations of """Nihilism""" catering to dumbass millennials

>>95322643
>Unity
She's a one off character. It would of have had a real impact if the character was built up. But that's the real problem with the show is that any character that isn't Rick or Morty is really just there to serve as development for Rick and/or Morty. All I can say is I really hope Jerry gets an actual arc going, he's really the only other character that gets any real screen time in comparison to the rest of the family.

>>95322796
>Can't take itself seriously at all

That's my problem with the show. They want you to not take it seriously while simultaneously pulling a switch and begging for feels when shit is 'so sad man'. It's completely inconsistent. Rick and Morty would benefit from being a whacky sci-fi adventure in its entirety.

>>95321773
Bojack sees that he has problems and wants to fix them, but subconsciously sabotages himself every time. Rick doesn't care that he has problems and actively tries to continue them, but his subconscious compels him to be better.

>>95322980
>but his subconscious compels him to be better

We never see this. The only indication that he has any feeling whatsoever is when family is in immediate danger (and not even that qualifies all the time, he left most of his real family to rot in a monster filled world he created and those flashbacks of R&M adventures show Morty in real danger while Rick is sleeping or flirting).

>>95320670
I'd say Bojack is an antagonist while Rick is a villain.

Just because Rick is "okay" (not nice...) to his immediate family doesn't mean he hasn't also maliciously committed atrocities against others. He just has an infinite universe and gadgets to escape the consequences. He's evil, and the running gag is that he's a caricature and edgelord who appeals to peoples' dark egos.

Bojack deep down actually wants to be good and tries to do the right thing while being self-aware and guilty of his past actions. Yet he is aggressive, hostile, and caring to people he sees as disposable and not worthy. He's vengeful, but often with what he feels is justification. He's not willfully evil like Rick is, Rick fucks with shit just for fun.

>>95320529
The humor on Rick and Morty hits more often than Bojack. There's no character as annoying as Todd on R&M.

With that said, both are good shows. R&M is just more consistent.

>>95323099
I'd say it's even worse then Rick only caring when the family is in immediate danger - he only seems to care when the episode requires him to. That's the biggest issue with season 3 - any hints of Rick being any deeper then a puddle is immediate revoked the next episode.

This wouldn't be an issue if it simply remained an sci-fi comedy but they keep pushing for this artificial drama. The last episode was good but I'm dreading the episode that focuses on Beth because I know it'll be another meaningless episode where you are left to wonder if Rick cares or not while people fellate the writer like it's award winning shit.

>>95323278
I agree on R&M being more consistent, but when Bojack reaches its highest highs, it's near unparalleled. Ricklantis is the only R&M episode that even compares to episodes like Escape from LA, That's Too Much Man, and Downer Ending. And then there's episodes like stupid piece of shit and times arrow that are on a whole other level. The majority of Bojack is really just an average animated comedy but its peaks are more memorable than Rick and mortys.

>>95322050
Because a lot of Rick and Morty threads are shitposting.

>>95320529
Bojack because at least he tries to get better, even if it's rare and he gives up quickly.

>>95320670
I wholly disagree with everything in this post.

>>95322920
Neither shows have a nihilist message. The main characters are both nihilists and are portrayed as whiny, egotistical bitch boys knowingly.

>>95320529
Bojack is more obscure so it's better

Bojack, although less bombastic than Rick & Morty, makes me feel a lot more. I get pay off for plot lines. I care about the characters more. I want them to succeed, unlike in Rick and Morty where every character is vile in their own special way.

>>95323848
>unlike in Rick and Morty where every character is vile in their own special way.

BH characters have plenty of flaws.

>>95320529
Bojack. As a show and character. The quality is just generally a fuckload more consistent and it's way better at mixing drama and comedy.

With Rick and Morty you get something resembling drama but there's always the worry that the writers will just give up and say
>lol who cares it's just a cartoon I'M BLUEBALLS RICK
Bojack takes its audience a lot more seriously. They never try to pull the rug out from under you in a poor attempt at meta humor (that's really just covering up the lack of writing talent). That's not to say Bojack is perfect, it doesn't know what to do with some of its characters (especially Todd), though that applies to R&M as well (Beth).

Also comedy-wise Bojack does more with less. There's some more elaborate jokes but it also has a lot of simple stuff that I chuckle at. Whereas R&M tries much much harder to make me laugh in often more spectacular/creative ways but I don't even smirk. I'm mostly talking about season 3 specifically, most of season 1 was hilarious.

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>>95320529
neither cause when bojack becomes as trendy to normies as rick and morty you nerds will end up hating it too.

weve had this exactly thread 3 times now

>>95325290
Bojack has been going for four seasons, it's about as trendy as it's ever going to get.

>>95325384
more seasons doesn't make something more trendy. gravity falls had two seasons and was trendy as fuck

>>95325431
No I'm saying the opposite dingus. If it's not as trendy as R&M now, four seasons in, it's not magically going to become more trendy later. Bojack is comfortable in its position as fairly popular but not earth-shatteringly popular. It's enough to keep getting renewed by Netflix.

Thread dynamics are different for the shows due to airing schedule.

There's a resurgence of Rick and Morty threads every time a new episode airs while Bojack threads are concentrated around the release of a season then peter out gradually.

>>95324102
Yes, but they are all genuinely striving to improve. As opposed to Rick and Morty where stagnation is the source of their humor. And no I don't consider Beth and Jerry getting a divorce and thus acting even shittier than usual good character development.

>>95325452
oh. fair enough.

>>95322204
But season 4 has Bojack legitimately trying (and succeeding) to be a good person while people around him fall apart because of their own issues.

>>95325836
>succeeding at being a good person

He's still an alcoholic and pops prescription meds.

>>95320529
As of now, Rick and Morty is the better show.

Bojack is very forgetful while Rick and Morty isn't.

RM. With Bojack it feels like the writers don't know what to do with 80% of the characters and just keeps having them repeat the exact same mistakes and habbits again and again.

RM just acts as a general comedy most of the time so my expectations of lasting change are much lower for it. Also can watch it over and over and still laugh.

Rick and Morty is typically funnier to me, but Bojack Horseman is definitely the better written show in terms of characterisation and the way in which it broaches its topics. Also, I think Bojack just does a better job of making you care about these characters and take them seriously, but that's largely due to its more grounded subject matter compared to Rick and Morty. With Bojack it feels as if they intricately construct these moments which are meant to elicit an emotional response from its viewers. There's a precedent and a set-up and foreshadowing. Theree's character development and evolution and, perhaps most importantly of all, the consequences always feel permanent and game changing. RIck and Morty's more episodic format and openly absurdist narrative means that its "sad moments" often just come out of nowhere. IT''s like if a babbling baby suddenly just started reciting Nietzsche. It happens suddenly and it disappears almost before you notice. The show refuses to take its characters very seriously and, honestly, I don't think there's an issue with that. Rick and Morty is a funny and charming show because of its improvisational tone and its willingness to go completely balls to the wall so far as absurdity goes. The consequene of this, however, is that it can never be as powerful emotionally as Bojack because it just plain doesn't want to be.

Ultimately, I think they're two very different shows outside of the themes of nihilism and depression, but Bojack is definitely more willing to engage with these themes on a deeply introspective and personal level than Rick and Morty and I think it's objectively the better written show because of it.

>>95325929

He's definitely still an alcoholic but he threw away the meds when he thought Hollyhock got into them. Bojack is a surprisingly strong person when he has someone he wants to protect.

>>95322204
But season 4 was deliberately breaking the standered formula, and was one of the best seasons for character growth particularly for bojack
Are you sure we saw the same S4 anon?

>>95325836
s1 Bojack: I'm miserable, why am I such a fuckup
s2 Bojack: I'm miserable, why am I such a fuckup
s3 Bojack: I got someone KILLED, WHY AM I SUCH A FUCK UP
s4 Bojack: first genuine smile after 4 seasons

totally same as before

>>95328742
meant to quote:
>>95322204

>>95322397
It took 3 and a half