Mister Miracle #2 The Second Clash Begins.

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And here we go...

Also, sidenote, I hate it when they make the interior artist covers into variants. Shit should be main covers.

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Huh

link?

>>95305823
First for Kingautist is a massive homosexual.

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>>95305855
Just hit the win-o

After Venditti setting up Hal to outrace the Omega Sanction, the death that is life, you gotta take what you can. I'm starting to like King's Mr. Miracle more each day. At least he's trying.

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>I'm too tall

Oh

>>95305823
>the best superhero story of the summer
>one issue

I mean it was a good issue but come on!

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Really? King's going with this? This?

>>95305904
Gerad is the highlight. King is weighing him down here.

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It's like Cosmic Odyssey Orion is the only one that matters.

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>that sneer

>>95305913
I dislike the dialogue a lot but he's doing some good stuff, especially since I'm gonna credit all the interesting visual stuff to King. I'll give Gerard credit for stepping up, this is far better than his usual shit. He's come a long way since tracing on Punisher.

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They keep using the word "God" with a capital G.

>>95305823
What was DC thinking putting this out the same week as metal. It's just gonna keep getting canibalized by it.

>>95305924
I hate how Starling's garbage gets directly referenced and followed up on more than Kirby's stuff.

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>>95305973
Right?
It's even the basis of Bug: The Adventures of Forager.

And Orion is this prissy asshole in it.

>>95305988
Oh, I lost a lot of respect for Allred with that one.

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Now that is a panel I find way more effective than the spamming in the first issue.

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Woah...oh no...

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This is silly, really really silly.

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And that's all for this month

>>95306004
King is truly elevating the medium with his high minded style of writing. I feel embarrassed for those too simple to understand the esoteric literary allusions at play in his work. The intentional misspelling will clearly be misinterpreted as cutesy bullshit instead of an ode to the origins of onomatopoeia but we discerning readers know better.

>>95305906

hnnngggg

>>95305913
at least this is thought provoking and interesting

>>95306149
GQ certainly thinks so.

>>95306116
You know the problem isn't with King but with you right?.

>>95306280
Ignore Kingautist.

>>95306048
Thanks Dave.
I'm actually really liking this book so far. King clearly hasn't lost it after all.

>>95306031
>this is silly
Well yeah, the new gods were always the silly out of place space opera that never knew to end.

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>>95306359
Yeah, sure, that's what I meant...

>>95306116

Ok that entire post is pretentious wannabe intellectual retard nerd autism. But this is a fun cape comic book with an evil old lady getting her head bashed in by a BBW. So yeah another hit from King.

>>95306031
so edgy

>>95306401
How the fuck is that edgy?

>>95306372
It's what I meant. The fourth world to me is characterized with silly costumes and names talking about the horrors of war and tyranny while the writer plays mad lib trying to come up with something new.

>>95306436
I mostly just used the word silly because I mean...."Is Orion Darkseid's son? Or are you?" is pretty dumb.

>>95306447
All of this is happening in Scott's head, so being Darkseid's real son and the one destined to kill him is probably one of his subconscious desires, like being really loved by Granny.
They are just dreams of a kid who had an awful childhood

>>95306588
I hope that comes to the forefront soon, cause this shit is twelve issues and it's already getting tiresome.

>>95306598
Nah King can't help but write in the nine panel grid so it'll probably take until the last couple of issues for them to break down and for everyone to act like he's reinvented comics again.

>>95306588
Or it could actually all be in Orion's head.

>>95306670
Oh fuck, shit got real

>>95306004
cute

>>95306588
I don't think it's all in Scott's head, but this isn't happening like this issue presented it to us. It may be that Scott is dead and this is his journey to Rebirth or something, he could still be escaping his suicide.

I really hope it's not so stupid as a dream

>>95306670
you, I like

>>95306680
>Scott becomes Darkseid's son
>which means Orion is no longer bound by prophecy to kill Darkseid

>>95306727
>Orion is becoming a despot
>Scott kills Orion

>>95306447
Would manipulation like that be past Granny? Leading one of her 'children' on, by something that does not exist? Or maybe -- Darkseid is?

this whole thing is weird, why is Orion the Highfather? Why is Izaya even dead? What on Earth is Darkseid doing here and what effect does it have on Scott? I actually like how confused I am, given there's 10 more issues

>>95306764
Just feels compounded by the idea that Orion is a sneering douche.

>>95306763
>orion becomes Scott's dad and Big Barda his mother and this turns out to be a retelling of oedipus rex
>Rex=King
>Tom King
oh dear god...

>>95305975
Bendis?

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>>95306832
Motherfucker!

>>95305840
Edgy

Well that... sucked.

>>95305906
>you're beautiful

Barda a trap confirmed

>>95306934
War is edgy.

>>95306447
Is it? Don't you like Simonson's run that starts with "Orion, you are not actually Darkseid's son"?

>>95306944
I'm gonna have to disagree with you anon, this was interesting.

>>95305904
is Venditti 's Green Lantern any good? they're story timing Venditti's fall of the gods part 3.

>>95305924
>>95305973
please explain Cosmic Odyssey Orion. haven't read it. I'm barely getting into cosmic DC.
>>95305988
I picked up Bug and it did have that panel page reference. was Cosmic Odyssey that important that they'll gloss over Kirby's original stuff?

seems to me that most don't get Kirby. even Mark Evanier has missed the mark on how to write Darkseid and the New Gods. Only Shane Davis has gotten it right this year.

>>95307056
I like the run, but that plot point is eventually forgotten. And I thought it was dumb then.

>>95307087
Cosmic Odyssey Orion is an upperclass prick.

>>95305823
"let's see how long I can Bendis the readers before they stop sucking my dick", the comics

>>95307087
>is Venditti 's Green Lantern any good?
No.

>>95307120
Orion is always a dick except for Kirby's New Gods.

>>95307156
He can be a dick in Kirby's stories too, but it's much more fleshed out and played with.

>>95307093
It was handed terribly while here we just get Granny Goodness trying to manipulate Scott's already broken mind.

>>95307174
I wouldn't say he's a dick there, he just has a short temper... sometimes.

>>95306764
Everything feels off like if something was wrong with reality. It's why most think he's actually dead or got omega sanctioned.

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>>95307121
>"let's see how long I can Bendis the readers before they stop sucking my dick"
tip top kekz, bendis does it better

>you mean the comic book writer, brian michael bendis?

yes, that bendis! the one true michael bendis who writes comics over at Marvel using nothing but bendis-speak.

>art thou speakth in thy bendis-tongue?

yes that bendis and king is a pretender of panel wasting like my post

>>95305988
Man only other guy who got Kirby's Orion was Simonson in his series. Which makes sense considering he wrote one of the best Thor runs.

>>95307121
>>95307222
Look at the panels in this issue though. None of them are ever repeated or recycled like Bendis panels.

Okay, call me dumb or whatever but I really just don't get this. I THINK I like New Gods but I can't tell if I actually enjoy it. I read Darkseid Special, MM #1 and #2, I knew Orion from Azarello's WW. And I read like 7 issues of Kirby old stuff.

That feels like a pretty good amount of exposure to not know what the fuck is going on. Can someone spoonfeed me? From what I glean from this thread New Gods is this big silly overextravagant space opera with silly costumes and concepts, but I can't follow this story at all.

Scott killed himself in issue 1? He's married to/bf+gf with Big Barda. Now he's fighting a war. But it's all in his head? Help pls

>>95305899
>>95305906
I love this sequence

>>95305913
>>95305924
>>95305935
>>95305947
This is just lame. I always disliked the idea of Orion becoming the new High father. I much prefer
>Orion, we need you. You must become the new Highfather
>No. I am a DOG OF WAR, my place is on the BATTLEFIELD. I nominate Lightray as the NEW HIGHFATHER!!!
Besides, it's silly to have the best New God warrior sit out the war.
Also, they talk about formalities but Lightray is just Lightray and not General Lightray?

>>95305954
Eerie, another great page

>>95305962
Another good page. Granny breaks minds, she doesn't just whip niggas.

>>95305975
I hate copy paste panels

>>95305996
King, you idiot! They're gods, not aliens. They don't age like people.

>>95306004
Cute

>>95306014
>>95306025
Scott's mind is so fractured that he actually buys this bullshit.

It's interesting enough as a whole, especially in this bland period for comics.

>>95306041
>leaving without Stormforge
dick move Barda

>>95307380
we don't really know what is happening yet. This IS a lot of setup and he will have to stick the landing for this cause otherwise it's just a bunch of disconnected shit. Hopefully next issue starts to give us some clues as to what's happening

>>95307380
>Scott killed himself in issue 1?
He attempted suicide but he didn't die.

>But it's all in his head?
It's currently ambiguous. No one knows if this story is really happening to Scott, or if this is just part of Darkseid's fuckery.

>>95307393
>mass quoting
Fucking retard.

>>95307280
It was short but I feel Len Wein got the feel of the New Gods in DC Universe: Legacies. In issue 8, he retells the first issue of the New Gods but from the point of view of Claudia Shane when Orion saves them from Apokolips. Len got down Orion and got his tragic side as well. Frank Quietly does the pencils.

It would make sense for Orion to be hated by the others from Apokolips. He got a silver spoon placed win his mouth, the better end of the deal as oppose to Scott. Some resentment should be there. It's a Kirby trope to begin with. He had it with Thor and Loki. I thought it was a good line by Barda in issue 1 to allude to this fact, calling Orion soft for living in New Genesis. That's something that should trouble Orion because a) he seems himself as this vengeful Dog of War macho type and b) he feels alien to New Genesis, as he doesn't belong there because he really is from Apokolips but he can't accept his lineage because it's evil and the conditions on Apokolips are horrendous. Orion rejects his shadow self and his culture, something truly tragic and it feels his anger. It's only cooled down with his acceptance of his present adopted home world. Something he'll protect to the very end. Kirby hinted at this with Superman in Jimmy Olsen's title. He made Superman feel like an outsider because he was one. Kirby and most of New York had to live with this immigrant mentality. To make a home in a new world where most don't accept you. Powerful stuff.

>>95305906
>"You're beautiful" done in the exact same pose.
>Next panel focuses on Barda's crotch.

THE MEMES HAVE GONE TOO FAR!

>>95307380
>I THINK I like the new gods
Ain't that just the truth.

>>95307540
Contain your autism. I just have mixed opinions on the issue as a whole and commented on the scenes individually.

I will say that even if this Barda is actually under Darkseid's control that I still love her and Scott's relationship.

>>95305906
Would you guys have been okay if they showed full nudity here? Maybe steamy stinky sex?

>>95305975
>>95305988
I like it when Granny acts like a granny.

>>95307600
>Frank Quietly does the pencils.
I thought that was just a straight redrawing of the second issue, didn't remember it being different.

>>95307758
Me? Yes. Majority of readers? Probably not.

>>95307087
Venditti's GL is great.

>>95307772
I hear Edward Asner's voice while reading Granny's lines

>>95307778
Well ready it's a synthesis of both issue 1 and 2.

>>95307805
Yeah I forgot, majority are faggots here.

>>95307842
I mean... Everyone's trying to push their dickgirl fetish on that page, so...

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>>95307660

>>95307758
this is a mature title, there should have been casual nudity. A sex scene would ruin it.

>>95305830
DC ships them 50/50 on orders. Just grab it over the other anon.

>>95307858
>>95307917
God dammit.

>>95305913
>Asshole Orion and Asshole Lightray

I get King is going for a "Darksied is inner corruption" thing but even if this is Scott spazzing out in Omega Sanction fuck you King.

Orion becoming Highfather was always a great idea because his arc in the original Kirby cycle was the exact same as Izaya's. They were warriors who traded the sword for the shephard's staff.

It's such a sadness the first time we see it happen in comics its in this way.

>>95305924
Fuck you King.

>>95305935
Fuck you King you CIA Hillary shill.

>>95305947
Fuck you King you CIA Hillary shill who can't write anyone besides the same slubby depressed suburban dwelling outsider.

>>95305973
It's such a sadness that Jack Kirby loved writing intelligent warrior characters like Orion and Thor and Ikaris and EVERYONE writes Orion as Starlin's prissy prima donna asshole when he should read like Marvel's Thor.

>>95305996
Well, King gets Granny and Darksied right even when he can't get any of the New Genesis characters right.

Am I the only one that hates that? That no one can write the good guys of Kirby's great work, only the bad guys?

Another did from King. He should've stayed at Marvel and put out kino after kino like Vision. He could be writing Captain America, Thanos and Dr. Strange and they would all be in the top 25 unlike now where he's only got Batman as a top seller because it's Batman while this is going to end up selling 20k at most.

>>95308012
>mass quoting
Fucking retard.

Christ why does everyone at DC hate Orion?

>>95307380
The New Gods are God Sphere beings. They live in eternal story cycles.

The Kirby stuff that ended with The Hunger Dogs was one cycle. seven Soldiers+Final Crisis was another.

King's stuff is yet another and it mayyyyyy just be Scott suffering Omega Sanction like his sidekick Shiloh did in Seven Soldiers.

>>95307671
Just die. New Gods is great with the right writers.

>>95306359
>Never knew where to end

It ended several times you casual.

>>95308109
Choke yourself Kingfag.

>>95308241
>The New Gods are God Sphere beings. They live in eternal story cycles.

>tfw some fag references retcon bullshit

>>95305988
darkseid wanting orion dead? fake.

>>95305906
Dat nice big Barda booty.

>>95308289
>Not wanting the New Gods to be on the level of Vertigo YHWH and Zeus and pals.
>Wanting them to just be aliens who try to invade Earth

You are what's wrong with comic "fans".

>>95308313
>Wanting them to just be aliens who try to invade Earth

>tfw some fag puts words in your mouth

>>95308012
>this is the kind of people who hates King

>>95308328
Alright. Find a way to reconcile Hunger Dogs with Simonson and Final Crisis without putting them on the god sphere with the other gods. Please tell me your great vision for New Gods continuity.

>>95308313
Zeus, Jupiter etc are just earth gods. They're only as old as civilization.

>>95308357
He's not wrong. King threw Orion's characterization under the bus so Scott can have someone adversarial in his story.

>>95308378
>tfw some fag cares about anything post-Kirby

>>95308313
Isn't Zeus and Odin kinda smalltime compared to YHWH?
I mean Highfather and Zeus are part of the quintessence but so is Ganthet and the Phantom stranger and Vertigo YHWH is several orders higher above those guys.

>>95308386
>Only as old as civilization

That hasn't been true since the Godwave.

>>95308386
I think that making the New Gods into metaphysical keystones of reality or something is just a bad move overall. They should just...be. Making them too important is inviting disarray.

>>95308391
And characterfagging should matter for what reason?

>>95308420
Because the New Gods is explicitly a mythos in its own right. It'd be like making Peter a complete jackass in the gospels.

>>95308396
>Several orders above

This might have been true in Vertigo era DC but YHWH and friends have been nerfed since Final Crisis, or rather the various pantheons including the New Gods got buffed and the Monitors got way-the-fuck-buffed compared to how they were depicted in Identity Crisis.

>>95308438
>New Gods is explicitly a mythos in its own right
Anon I won't disagree that New Gods isn't a mythos but wiser men than you, me and King have all accepted the death of the author. REEEEEEing over it is quite fruitless and stupid.

>>95308475
It's less reeing and more that King has said that he's put the legwork in with researching these characters, so it's not like an Elseworlds or a completely new take...so where is that research showing in the product?

>>95306031
Darkseid never raised Scott, it makes no sense for Scott to be Darkseid's son.

>>95308492
It's always lip service for one, for another his interpretation of what all of this is should be allowed to be different and his own.

>>95308532
Again, it's allowed to be different, if it's intended to be different - but in his interviews he's quite confident he's captured the spirit of these characters.

Which he hasn't.

>>95308391
Nah, this is just how Orion is portrayed under everyone other than Kirby. Its how DC views him, not King.

>>95308466
>Morrison's meta-monitors
Ugh no thanks.

>>95306280
>>95306310
I don't have time to fite with you.

>>95308396
>quintessence
That was, thankfully, abandoned and ignored.

>>95308411
I from nt know, trying to imply that they aren't above earth gods is... pretty stupid. Then again I always gate the whole "earth is the bestest" thing.

>>95308514
King is going for a "Darkseid IS the corruption within all things" approach. It's why you haven't seen Darkseid yet.

>>95308532
His interpretation stinks though. I don't like the idea of the guy Izaya saved from the corruption of his father turning to a dick. I like it when the hero wins.

>>95308541
Simonson also wrote a good Orion. And whoever wrote that Orion one-shot for Kirby's anniversary did a good job.

>>95308558
It really was the only thing he could do to explain how a single one of their race curbstomped the multiverse during the first Crisis.

Morrison's ideas prevent DC's cosmology from becoming the horror show Marvel's is.

>>95307758
what would that add?

>>95308601
Them and Earth Gods shouldn't really have parlay. I know it's embedded in their publishing history that they are connected to the overall DCU, but they work vastly more disconnected from it.

>>95308601
They sort of are above Earth gods because they're the only ones aware of the source that lies beyond the monitor sphere and are the only ones who have created mother boxes to draw power from that source.

They're above ancient gods the same way modern man is above ancient man. They know what they are and how they were created.

>>95308608
>Morrison's ideas prevent DC's cosmology from becoming the horror show Marvel's is.
Yeah instead he made it into an altogether different horror show.

>>95306588
Pretty Trite Storytelling Decision if you ask me.

>>95307459
Or did he???

>>95308012
Autism the post.

>>95308539
>but in his interviews he's quite confident he's captured the spirit of these characters.
Not really. He explicitly said he's trying his own thing because trying to out Kirby Kirby is an automatic fail.

>>95308608
>Simonson also wrote a good Orion. And whoever wrote that Orion one-shot for Kirby's anniversary did a good job.
Agree to disagree. Better than Starlin Orion though, sure.

>>95308657
Or is it?

>>95308704
And his own thing is having them eat jello and bludgeon each other to death while they go crazy via Darkseid metaphors, i.e. fucking terrible.

>>95305851
I read it as "dick lasers out for Mister Miracle"...

>>95308781
>i.e. fucking terrible
In your opinion.

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>>95308514
His trying to do a James Earl Jones' Thulsa Doom to Schwarzenegger's Conan because he gave Conan purpose in life. Essentially being sort of the father of his pain/accomplishments. Now Darkseid is Thulsa and Scott is Conan.

In a runabout way Hypercrisis worked itself out. James' Darth Vader was influenced by Darkseid (really all of Star Wars was New Gods material) and by having Darkseid act like Thulsa from the '82 film we have a nice connection.

>>95308608
>And whoever wrote that Orion one-shot for Kirby's anniversary did a good job.
That would be Shane Davis. If Byrne's run didn't lead up to Genesis, it would be hailed to be up there in New God mythos. Just like he did with Superman he played fast and loose with ideas. Some were good and some were ridiculous, but I never got the impression he didn't understand Kirby's mythos. Underrated but he tried too hard in the end and failed.

>Morrison's ideas prevent DC's cosmology from becoming the horror show Marvel's is.
please explain.

>>95308804
With Morrison you got a mandala map balancing several generations of ideas across several writers.

With Marvel you get cosmic ideas being flushed down the memory hole so the new threat on the block can run wild on everyone like a Roman Reigns push before jobbing to the heroes.

Morrison atleast takes a stab at making everything work from Flash of Two Worlds onwards. Marvel just throws its hands up and goes "lol sliding timescale whatever".

>>95308804
Byrne is hands down one of the worst New Gods writers but at least its understandable since he had beef with Kirby. DC are the retards that put him in charge.

>>95308836
>If Byrne's run didn't lead up to Genesis, it would be hailed to be up there in New God mythos

What plane of existence are you even on?

>>95305988
Who else /hearingEdAsner/ right now?

>>95308539
The work speaks for itself, anything else shouldn't matter. Authors can always bullshit around the idea of what their work is, work is what should be judged and if you let author lead you around willfully, you'll end up judging the author and not the work. How are we looking at the work in an objective and meaningful way if our interpretation of the work is wholly inspired via external sources?
>>95308608
>His interpretation stinks though. I don't like the idea of the guy Izaya saved from the corruption of his father turning to a dick. I like it when the hero wins.
Not to be rude but that sounds like you expect the text to go through what you consider is good for it.

>>95308608
>Morrison's ideas prevent DC's cosmology from becoming the horror show Marvel's is.
Vertigo already did that. I'll take the Endless over the monitors any day.

>>95308938
>The work speaks for itself, anything else shouldn't matter.

The work is speaking for these already established characters, however, unlike say - an elseworlds or an out of continuity work. And King has gone on to say that this is in continuity and will have "consequences", which honestly...should factor in if you are a fan. And it's pretty dire so far.

>>95308986
Both can function just fine. And I don't like The Endless interacting with superheroes in long term stories. Cameos and stuff are fine.

>>95306116
why are you so upset? it's a fine page

people are deeply triggered by king and i wish i knew why.

>>95309010
Again I don't think you are refuting death of the author or that external entities shouldn't really affect the understanding of the text, at least you haven't yet and still your criticism is lead by interpreting the work with these two basis.

>>95307758
Sure, whatever.

>>95306401
>I have no idea what edgy means.
It must be hard being this stupid.

>>95309010
>And King has gone on to say that this is in continuity and will have "consequences", which honestly...should factor in if you are a fan
Why does this bother you so much? Are you okay with Grail and Baby Darkseid but asshole Orion is too much for you?

Can someone explain Shilo Norman Mister Miracle vs Scott Free Mister Miracle? Are they the same/different person/people? Why is there both of them? I read Morrison's Seven Soldiers a decade ago it seems, but did so when I was still new to Morrison as well as the Fourth World.

>>95309097
Of course, it's less refuting death of the author and more just saying that these are company owned characters and the perception of them in a continuity sort of sense has to come from a communal background. Especially if you're going to be extrapolating this much into their scenario.

Of course this is all forfeit since it's likely an Omega Sanction/Darkseid thing, but even then I think it could be done a bit more interestingly.

>>95309116
Who said I was okay with Grail and Baby Darkseid? I freely said that Darkseid was was complete shit when it was coming out. Point out where I thought those were okay things.

>>95309149
>Darkseid was
Darkseid War, excuse me.

>>95309144
Shilo was his protege,

>>95309144
Shilo Norman was Scott's apprentice. Eventually he ended up taking Scott's place as the third Mr. Miracle(Scott took up the mantle from a human escape artist)

>>95308420
>characterfagging
First off, that's not what characterfagging is faggot.

Secondly, just because you're the type of faggot who "generally dislikes big 2 comics" but "give king a try because he writes interesting stories instead of the same old thing" doesn't make it good or your opinion superior. Writing out of character is lazy. "Muh story" shouldn't have been a story with that character if it requires a complete change.

If I tried to change Batman's back story into fighting crime because he has Dexter-like urges to kill or rape people and it was the only way for him to repent for his inner guilt and release his urges I would deserve scorn. It doesn't matter if you think that's a good idea, interesting or fun. It's a best a what-if, but really it's a never should.

Writing for capecomics isn't writing within rules and confines. I bet many interior designers wish they could go crazy with every space they work on. But there are budgets and utilitarian constraints.

People who push against this simply don't like capecomics. It's akin to asking why they don't change NASCAR into F1.

>>95309210
>Writing for capecomics isn't writing within rules and confines.
is*, I had originally intended to say it's not free rein.

>>95309046
>Both can function just fine.
But The Monitors suck and The Endless are just so more poetic.
> I don't like The Endless interacting with superheroes in long term stories.
Well I do because the endless put Superheroes in their right perspective and reminds me everyone that DC is more than Silver age superhero antics.

>>95309160
>>95309186
Ah. Thanks guys.
Within the context of SS then, was Darkseid fucking with him because he was elevated as a new god when he took over for Scott, or just because he used the Mister Miracle mantle at the time? Just fucking with a lowly human seems beneath him despite the fact that he is.

>>95309210
I think comics would be a lot better if writers were allowed to write whatever without rules and confines.

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>tfw actually feeling bad for fucking Granny Goodnes
This issue has really won me over.

>>95309291
There are comics like that which already exist.

>>95309149
I'm saying that a lot of people have taken liberties with these characters, from Orion not being Darkseid's son, to Cuck Scott and the Barfa/Superman porno, to Takion, to New Genesis and Apokolipd being planets you can reach by flying, and humans like Cyborg being able to reverse engineer New God tech and create boom tubes. Things come and go and stuff gets ignored. I don't have a problem with you olnot liking it but I think King has some good ideas and moments mixed with shut ideas and shit moments. His Orion sucks but I think he does a good job with Scott and Barda.
King took liberties on Omega Men and Vision too.

>>95309291
this: >>95309309
Did you misunderstand my NASCAR/F1 reference?

It's like a NASCAR fan saying auto-racing would be better if they did more than turn left (sorry nascar lurkers I don't mean to shit on your sport).

>>95309310
>from Orion not being Darkseid's son, to Cuck Scott and the Barfa/Superman porno, to Takion, to New Genesis and Apokolipd being planets you can reach by flying

Now which of these has lasted or become iconic on its own right outside of mockery?

And honestly, I think the comic overall had moments, but those moments - in the brief pauses work without King's writing at times.

>>95309259
Don't talk shit about my nigga Nix Uotan, bitch.

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>>95306004
>making Mister Miracle look like r/rarepuppers
King wants to become an ultimate meme writer

>>95309290
He inherited Scott's motherbox and godhood. Its actually a bit more complicated than this but basically Shilo just became the new avatar of freedom.

>>95309259
And the Monitors put the Endless in their right perspective and remind everyone that DC is founded on Silver Age superhero antics.

>>95309401
Alright. Awesome. Thanks again.

>>95309365
I think the moments are King's ideas. Anyway, what I'm saying is that you shouldn't dislike it just because it's not the New Gods you want, especially since DC has decades under their belt of misusing and don't be too concerned with canon because there's a far higher chance if Johns garbage becoming THE canon for the next decade over what King's doing.

>>95309149
>more just saying that these are company owned characters and the perception of them in a continuity sort of sense has to come from a communal background
I don't think that's some sort of rule of how you interpret an art. If, say, Mr Miracle was individual owned entity where Kirby started it and couldn't finish that story and then the responsibility of true continuation falls on King's shoulder, you could easily make a point of how for the sake of coherency, King's work is a definite extension of what came before and work should be looked at judged as a whole. This argument would make sense there and still function as an objective way of looking at it. But with how these entities work under capitalism, that just sounds like pure relativism and functions as some faux authorial lens of looking at work and my dude I don't think that's meaningful way of looking at something.

>>95309483
It's not that it isn't the New Gods I want, like you think Forever People was the New Gods I wanted...nah, but it rang true in execution and at the core. Which was fine by me and it was light fun.

This, again, is about having to ring true. And it just don't. Just because bad things have happened before ain't going to mean I'm going to accept bad things now in case of worse things. Hell, there probably WILL be worse things.

Man I hope our Z-boy is going to be happy, as I was. Can't wait for a review on D&C.

>>95309210
>Writing for capecomics isn't writing within rules and confines.
Those rules that limited the artistic merits when it came to writing capeshit were thrown out the window long time ago. Also I'd love to hear how you define in character and why it matters so much instead of trying to tell a story.

>>95309511
The recent Forever People ongoing? Didio and Giffen really dropped the ball on that, I think I stopped around issue 7. I hated the fuck out if 3(?) the one with Starlin. See, I don't think that rang true but it had a few moments that I really liked.

>>95309410
But DC was founded on Golden age Heroics and comic diversity like War and Horror comics which is why the monitors suck.

>>95309567
>>95309567
>trying to tell a story
Arguable

>>95309210
Frank Miller completely changed Daredavil when he came on.

>>95309600
Not really. DC multiverse began with Flash of Two Worlds and (I might be wrong) but DC didn't start creating genre titles like House of Mystery until the Silver Age.

>>95309593
I dunno, outside of the Starlin issue it was quite an interesting way of reconciling Johns' bullshit with the outer themes of the FW. That was interesting, and while it wasn't perfect in the least...it made some connections that I thought had effort.

>>95309367
I actually torn on Good ol' Nix. I like him as an individual character but I still don't like The monitors acting as a story vampires and the stories that I'm reading is just bacteria.

>>95309603
Dude don't move the goalpost, that wasn't what we were discussing.

>>95309622
The Silver age killed Horror comics.

>>95309367
Nix Uotan is just Morrison's self-insert and a particularly egotistical one at that.

>>95309365
New Gods invites different takes on the concept by the various writers, almost none of the elements introduced by later writers stick around.

>>95309749
>Egotistical
>Needed Metron to save him during Final Crisis and Red Racer to save him during Multiversity

>>95309083
It's a fine page for the Sunday funnies staple Family Circus. But people don't blow Family Circus for being brilliant.

so is this before or after darkseid war cause Manhattan killed Metron ? or is it non canon and just a story for the sake of telling it

>>95310179
>or is it non canon and just a story for the sake of telling it
King has said that this is canon

>>95310179
>cause Manhattan killed Metron ?
Hey, that's interesting. Maybe Metron could contact Scott because they're both dead.

>>95310234
>>95310179
The New Gods are story beings that live their lives like stories.

This is happening right now while Hal hangs out with Lightray and Highfather over at Hal and GLC.

Death and rebirth are just parts of life to them.

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>>95310281
Morrison gave an explanation to explain all the inconsistencies that will probably never go away.

>>95310353
It's funny because of how badly that devalues every new gods story

>>95310365
>devalues

Not at all. I like that it makes them a living mythology. And it allows for stuff like Hunger Dogs and Final Crisis to exist side by side and even this weird take by King.

>>95310275
that makes some sense and would be interesting

>>95310425
You know what else lets them exist side by side? Them being comics.

>>95310427
Yeah, again, my main concern is with how bluntly "off" is, that if the Metron thing does have that angle to it - it gives me hope they'll pull the trigger on it soon for whatever kinda death/omega/corruption thing it is and we can get into meatier stuff.

>>95309794
In both cases they're representations of Morrison's belief in the idea of superheroes saving us in a metatextual sense. Basically it's all of Flex Mentallo presented in a few panels; Nix Uotan's story in Multiversity in particular is a truncated retelling of Flex Mentallo.

The authorial egotism in Nix Uotan comes from his relation to other story elements, particularly his relationship with the Monitors and the superheroes themselves.

>>95310449
Exactly. That's why Morrison's take works. It's truer to the medium than trying to fit everything into one single story. All the different versions from all the different stories exist side by side like the comics do.

>>95310365
As opposed to Darkseid being an alien invader and a jobber.

>>95310652
Two wrongs don't make a right

>>95309210
Yeah, it makes it good. Rebirth is unreadable because it's the same thing all over again. I'm glad there's some DC writer who doesn't have to suck Johns' cock.

>>95310690
>Yeah, it makes it good

>>95310514
Sandman and Norman Osborn have the same kind of hair texture because they're cousins. It's the same kind of pointless explanation. Of course they're different stories existing side-by-side, it's pretty fucking obvious when Batman has something like seven books he appears in right now. Anyone who doesn't have brain problems can figure out how fiction works.

>>95310685
We're talking multiple wrongs here. Farmerseid, Earth 2 Barda...

>>95310935
Final Crisis...

>>95309567
>>95309679
that wasn't me who responded faggot. And since you quoted the one part I said was a fuck up I'm not really sure how to respond.

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>>95311127
>Final Crisis
>Bad

>>95310365
wait, what part is the devaluing coming from? is it the many faces quotes?

>>95308875
>he had beef with Kirby
what beef?

>>95311179
The question I asked if you will.

>>95310365
Right after Multiversity, we started getting things like some of the new Gods that popped up in Earth-2 not matching their main Earth versions, even though initially it was said they were unique.

I'd guess when Morrison wrote that he already knew that the editorial directive to keep a single version of the New Gods in the new multiverse was falling apart.

>>95311303
It makes sense out of the confines of comics as well in any case.

Like Smallville's version of Orion and Highfather, who died of old age. I want to see THAT story,

>>95311303
whatever happened to his fifth world?

>>95311337
It was dumb bullshit and everyone rightfully ignored it.

>>95311189
Morrison has an incredibly simplistic take on the New Gods mythos that is directly counter to Kirby's and is a strong proponent of the "Darkseid is a Superman villain" mentality. I'd go as far as to say that Morrison is mostly uninterested in the New Gods outside of Darkseid, Metron, and, to a lesser extent, Shilo Norman.

>>95311354
You forgot making Batman the analogue for Orion.

>>95311332
they what?

>>95305899
>>95305906
This was sweet.

>>95311568
Yeah, in Smallville Orion still existed and was taken in by Highfather and saved ancient Earth from Darkseid/Apokolips....and I guess they just died of old age.

Like, that's incredible and that we never got more info is criminal,.

>>95311213
Kirby spoke out about how Marvel screwed him with their work-for-hire contract, Byrne wrote an open letter saying that he shouldn't complain, and that he was a proud to serve as a company man. Kirby's response was to depict Byrne as a "Cogburn" the ultimate spineless, dickless company man in Gerber's Destroyer Duck. Byrne countered that by calling Kirby's wife a whore by proxy of mind controlling Big Barda into becoming a porn star.
>>95311354
otoh Morrison was so angry over Darkseid serving as Superman's punching bag in Loeb's Supergirl arc that he wrote Final Crisis as a response, saying all previous Darkseids were only a shadow of the real thing.

>>95307716
Not that anon but with mass quoting, I don't care what you say because I'm bored to take the time to see the numbers for the posts.
AKA the majority said "Fuck you" and didn't care a bit on what you have to say to your blog post.

>>95305823
Very cool. Thanks anon!

>>95306116
what's next, complaining about Incredible Hercules? Is this how far we've fallen as a board?

>>95308608
>Morrison's ideas prevent DC's cosmology from becoming the horror show Marvel's is.
i don't know. it usually takes for a new regime of editors to screw that up and dc cosmology always had me confused. like what the fuck is up with the maltusians, they become the guardians of the universe, the controllers and the zamarons?

>>95311973
the Controllers were just Guardians who wanted to keep using the Manhunters

the Zamarons were just the female Maltusans left behind by the all-male Guardians

>>95312184
except Guardians weren't all male, Sayd and the Black Lantern one were definitely female

>>95306031
Reading this place, feels like Scott is hearing all this stuff from afar in a dreamlike condition. All of it.

>>95312207
the original Guardians were, but they became mixed-sex when Kyle restored them after Parallax fucked everything up

you casual

>>95311604
>Smallville
I knew you were a faggot Dave

>>95305996
>jello with a knife and fork
hee

>>95312336
What can I say? Lois and Clark were excellent.

>>95311643
You sound autistic.

>>95306031
This is garbage.

>>95305823

Mister Miracle 001 (2017) (digital) (Oroboros-DCP)
http://www59.zippyshare.com/v/PveCZf1Q/file.html

Mister Miracle 002 (2017) (digital) (Oroboros-DCP)
http://www36.zippyshare.com/v/uxgtUVLB/file.html

>>95309690
>The Super Hero killed the monsters

Makes you think.

>>95314620
H Y P E R C R I S I S

>>95310863
Then why are you having such issues understanding something so simple?

>>95311632
>Kirby's response was to depict Byrne as a "Cogburn" the ultimate spineless, dickless company man in Gerber's Destroyer Duck

Welll, he is the ultimate dickless company man and a huge autist.

>>95311337
Flashpoint

>>95305830
>I hate it when they make the interior artist covers into variants. Shit should be main covers.

I mean Nick Derington is the better artist, maybe it's a trick.

>>95314793
>Kirby
>Happily married until his death
>Tentpole creator of Marvel Comics
>Eternals and New Gods were GOAT series
>Fought in WW2

>Byrne
>Unhappy divorce
>Marriage lasted only 10 years
>Raised the son of a previous marriage (So he's a literal cuck)
>Stories about being so autistic him having a mental breakdown and breaking a phone didn't surprise his coworkers


Like daylight and dark.

>>95314930
>him having a mental breakdown and breaking a phone didn't surprise his coworkers

That was Mark Waid

>Kirby happily married
>Morrison happily married
>Simonson happily married

I'm noticing a pattern with writers that get the New Gods.

>>95315043
but I thought Morrison's waifu was the DC universe

>>95315097
Waifu is not the same as wife anon.

>>95305823
this book is awful

>>95311604
Gods dying of old age... Yes, because that';s what we need more of, New Gods portrayed as stupid aliens.

>>95315311
Could be fun, I envision that Orion as being a sort of barbarian warrior

>>95315043
King is, ostensibly, happily married

>Big Barda has a height complex
Really?

>>95315450
THIS.

Why has NO ONE FUCKING MENTIONED THIS SHIT?

Barda being insecure about her height is fucking retarded.

>>95315417
>Ex-CIA
>Happily married

Doesn't exist.

Didn't he mention somewhere that he put his own family issues into Vision and Mr. Miracle?

>>95315468
What, Orion can suddenly start acting evil with Lightray as his loyal smiling gestapo aide and that doesn't seem at all out of character but Big Barda worrying about her height does?

>>95315468
>>95315505
OMEGA
SANCTION

>>95315505
I mean - having family issues doesn't mean he's not happily married? I think he just includes some personal feelings/hang ups in his writing.

>>95315623
Oh so it was all just a dream then?
What hackery.

>>95311947
Does Incredible Hercules have fiteing?

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>>95315676
and how

>>95315505
>>95315468
>haven't seen darkseid yet
>Barda hardly responds to Scott
>Oberon's dead
>Orion's being corrupted by power
>Lightray's non-interventionism/rule following at an all time high
>Granny appeals to Scott's stockholme syndrome for her
>Scott tries to kill himself in the first issue

Scott's attempt at suicide is him initially giving into Darkseid allowing him to construct a false reality that contains all that he fears. He escaped life into a simulation rather than into death.

>>95311354
Morrison loves the New Gods, you can find aspects of the mythic in nearly everything he does, and he's one of the only authors to do them justice outside of their original incarnations. You couldn't be more wrong.

>>95315749
>kill them all offscreen
>have the justice league fight Darkseid instead
>Batman is Orion in the Fifth World

Yeah he loves them alright

>>95315342
>fun
When did this word become synonymous with shit?

>>95315791
Sometime around the mid 80's

>>95315772
Read one issue of his JLA and get back to me. Or really anything he's written.

>>95315833
I read final crisis.
Refer back to my last post.

>>95315772
Having the big fight on page is hackery. That right is reserved only for Kirby. Otherwise, no spectacle will be grand enough.

>>95315855
Not that I minded not seeing the fight, but
>all died off screen

>>95315846
So you're familiar with his usage of the New God Darkseid, how Final Crisis is a continuation of the themes found in his Mister Miracle mini, and that he viewed the New Gods as being on a level akin to the next stage in evolution for the trinity? Or did you miss that?

>>95316018
Wow, that sounds like a lot of work to subsume the New Gods with the Justice League

>>95316044
would you rather he just did it with no build up?

>>95316044
Clearly his entire career has been dedicated to tearing down Kirby's legacy instead of honoring it at every turn. You're pretty sharp.

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>>95315772
>Kill them all offscreen

By this you mean have them incarnate into human forms on Earth, which was a very Kirby touch and reminded me of the O'brian Mob storyline in New Gods.

>Have the League fight Darkseid instead

In a way that involved Orion, Metron, Dan Turpin and Black Racer and included everyone having to go to the limit to stop him

And then Sonny Sumo and the new Forever People help in fighting Mandrak.

>Batman is Fifth World Orion

Which works extremely well, far better than Johns trying to make him into Metron.

>>95315855
>Big fight

Kirby never intended for the big prophecy fight to actually happen. Read Hunger Dogs.

>>95316018
>Next stage in evolution for the trinity

Who are Wonder Woman and Superman supposed to be? Barda and Scott?

>>95316044
>Subsume the New Gods with the League

No. That would be Johns. Pic related, you didn't actually read Final Crisis. Go meme alone to yourself and come back when you've actually read what you shitpost about.

>>95316192
>Which works extremely well

>>95316210
It does. Orion's entire arc under Kirby was about following Izaya's path instead of Darksied and constantly grappling with his inner demons.

Batman is the same way. He carries darkness and violence into battle with him and uses it as a weapon but he is NOT darkness and violence.

His relationship with being "born of darkness" makes him microcosmic Earth image of Orion.

There's literally nothing wrong with him being 5th world Orion.

>>95315722
sounds like Dr. Doom's plan in Fantastic Four 1234

>>95315772
Well it was Starlin that got his hands dirty actually killing the New Gods but Morrison only killed them to rebirth them as humans to help usher in the new Fifth World. The editorial staff didn't back him up on it and it failed. Having Ben Boxer become BiOmac was next level Kirby though.

Also Simonson was based in both Thor and New Gods. You can count Manhunter since that too was a Kirby property.

Would love to see Gaiman write the New Gods. He hinted at them in Sandman Overture.

>>95307600
yeah Wein RIP also got the New Gods. He co-wrote Legends with Ostrander. Everyone in this board hates and bashed Byrne lol but he drew the book. The actual book was meh it was mostly there to recon but I liked Darkseid in it. I think this book might have influenced Morrison the most in his take of Darkseid. In Seven Soldiers he said Wein was his favorite writer. Only The Great Darkseid Saga by Paul Levitz has the GOAT take of Darkseid next to Kirby's Tiger Force.

>>95316281
>Orion's entire arc under Kirby was about following Izaya's path instead of Darksied and constantly grappling with his inner demons.

>Batman is the same way. He carries darkness and violence into battle with him and uses it as a weapon but he is NOT darkness and violence.

>>95316282
>Morrison only killed them to rebirth them as humans to help usher in the new Fifth World. The editorial staff didn't back him up on it and it failed.

So it was a failure? Like I said.

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>>95316210
>>95316317
>

>Implying

>Green

>Text

>>95316340
His writing and ideas weren't a failure. It was the lack of push by the office that failed.

If you're general and vague enough, you'll always be right.

>>95316282
>usher in the 5th world

He actually intended for that to happen? I mean like immediately?

He's hinted at Earth having the potential to the 5th world as far back as Rock of Ages but he actually intended for Earth to go full New Gods? I don't see how that would work. The Status Quo at DC has always been to have Earth be more like our own than not.

>Ben Boxer as BiOmac

I'd love to see more of Earth Kirby. It seems like one hell of a fun Earth.

I long for a real Omac in Prime Earth. I hate that Brother Eye has been reduced to being Batman's Sentinel program. Omac is too cool for that.

>>95316317
I'm not sure what you're trying to say by greentexting Anon. Care to provide context?

>>95316402
>but he actually intended for Earth to go full New Gods?
if you tie it in to his mega-narrative of all his books then yeah Earth would be full of gods. That's what he likes to write about, see Flex.

>>95316402
I might lose some face here but goddamn it I loved Didio's Brother Eye. It was such a disappointing turn of events when he was reverted back to Infinite Crisis crap.

>>95316402
It was for a new status quo, allowing for mantle passing while the originals were still around.

>>95316463
Well yeah, but I always thought that the 5th world was an endgame that would never actually be shown. Sort of like Batman actually getting old or dying. It would be something that'll happen eventually but in the context of the stories in the setting it never happens.

>>95315722
I feel like it's clear King was going to do this even before the first issue came out, but I still don't find it enjoyable to have this stretched out issue after issue and see this highly negative portrayal of the characters.

>>95316625
I feel the same way. I don't like watching all these characters be either weaklings, evil, or dead just for the final two issues or so to go SURPRISE! IT WAS OMEGA SANCTION!

>>95316658
Especially when it's so obvious

>>95316192
O'Ryan

>>95316625
Agreed. That's the thing that bothers me the most about this book. Everyone is out of character and it's stretching out the whole Scott being trapped in either the X-Pit or some other Apokoliptan plot. I'm kinda worried King is making it that he isn't trapped and this is the new Scott Free. This book isn't in DC's fucked-up-baby-darkseid-main continuity, right?

>>95316192
Hunger Dogs is not what Kirby intended to do.

>>95316672
Probably not obvious if you never read Morrison do it and don't know the characters though.

Anyway as ever capeshit is overrated and doing something sincerely is underrated. Critics will eat up Mr. Miracle, just like whatever cape book was 10/10 last year. Omega Men, I thought, was actually genuinely very good.

>>95305954
>it's a proper noun in this context
>all of the letters are capitalized anyway

>>95316672
>>95316658

>Hey guys, I'm going to show you this DEEP and MEANINGFUL exploration of depression

>Mr. Miracle, god of escapism, tries to kill himself
>Orion, god of controlling the evil inside oneself towards positive ends, is new Darksied
>Lightray, god of optimism, is his sneering vizier
>Highfather is dead.
>Barda can't get over the abuse Granny inflicted on her and is reduced to a self-conscious shell in her presence.

>BEHOLD THE DEEP! DEEP IS MY STORY!

Anyone else hate that the Motherbox is actually talking instead of ping ping ping? That shit is driving me nuts.

>>95316838
He didn't want to have to wrap everything up in a graphic novel but the story is still his and Orion defeating Darksied by not fighting is still his resolution (and a great one at that for the entire New Gods saga).

>>95316891
I'm going to no-prize it and say that it's actually a clue that something is wrong because wherever this is taking place is cut off from the Source and motherboxes only PING PING PING when they can connect to the source, its sort of like the sacred word OHM in Buddhism.

Is there an official reading order for this New Genesis stuff? It seems interesting, and I'm liking the somewhat aristocratic atmosphere.

>>95316952
>Aristocratic atmosphere

I never thought we'd live in a world where someone can describe an adaptation of a Kirby work as having an "aristocratic atmosphere".

>>95306381
>Ok that entire post is pretentious wannabe intellectual retard nerd autism.
Looked more like jokey sarcasm to me.

>>95316281
i would rather have orion as fifth world orion

>>95316839
King is sort of in a rut after taking on Batman, it feels like. His Trilogy of Good Intentions was much better

>>95317052
Would you have wanted Thor to have been 3rd World Orion?

>>95316526
>It would be something that'll happen eventually but in the context of the stories in the setting it never happens.
I like this.

>Mr. Miracle, god of escapism, tries to kill himself
so the only means of escaping depression is suicide? Not sure I like this book anymore.

>>95316891
>>95316940
PING PING PING

>>95309210
God, you're the reason why cape comics are so stagnant

>>95317012
I'm very new to the New Gods in general. I've known of them but they haven't caught my attention.

>>95317133
he's not escaping depression, he's escaping life

and then he'll escape death

>>95317132
i kind of went with that anyways.

>>95317178
>He's escaping life

God I hate that.

Scott has always been this optimistic guy who has had his life together. He's a celebrity with an apprentice, a hot wife, and Justice League membership.

He's got one hell of a good life, and he's got one hell of a good personality. I'm not buying he needs to "escape life".

I wish Tom King would get his Acme Novelty Library bullshit out of Mr. Miracle. Scott Free is not Jimmy Corrigan and I don't want to see him as Jimmy Corrigan.

>>95317267
Darkseid got his hands on the Anti-Life and is making Scott depressed maybe

>>95316952
Just read the omnibus order

>>95316952
there's a big fat Jack Kirby Fourth World omnibus coming out in December, that's going to be the official reading order

>>95317267
>>95317178
>>95317133
Orion would have honestly been the better protagonist for the kind of story Tom King wants to tell.

For the life of me I don't know why Tom King chose Mr. Miracle for a story about depression over the guy with has to get a steady dose of PING from his mother box to prevent him from growing the heart and face of his father, the god king of evil of the DC universe.

When you compare Scott and Orion and ask "who is more likely to want to escape from their life" the answer is Orion.

So why isn't Orion the main character?

>>95317083
>His Trilogy of Good Intentions was much better
Not at all. He took massive liberties with those characters too, and the product he delivered wasn't any better either.

I think the main problem people have with this is treating the New Gods as sacred cows, far moreso than people did with Vision and Kyle Rayner

>>95317487
Definitely. The sad part is that there have been so many terrible and unoriginal New Gods stories that holding them to such a standard is stupid. Hell, people even got mad that Morrison wanted to shelf them for a bit. How dare he take such original stories as the first New 52 JL arc from us?

>>95317372
the previous omnibus had a pretty good reading order
http://www.comicbookherald.com/darkseid-orion-new-gods-reading-order-jack-kirbys-complete-4th-world-saga/

https://comicbookreadingorders.com/dc/events/jack-kirbys-fourth-world-reading-order/

here are links to some other orders. the big debate is when Forever People comes in

>>95317487
King takes a lot of liberties with characters he writes. It's sort of clear from the way he uses the old taglines of Mr. Miracle issues in ironic fashion that he has great contempt for Jack Kirby's work. Just look how he's treating Orion-Orion was Kirby's favorite. He loved writing characters like Orion from Thor to Reject to Machine Man.

And look how he's treated.

King can say how much he respects Kirby but it's just him being polite for the press. He's got a serious case of contempt.

>>95317487
People don't like it when the your only new ideas for superheros are to make them psychological weaklings, evil, or dead.

Just look at the Snyderverse.

People were okay with King scrapping decades of Vision's character development to make him autistic Edward Scissorhands because the number of Vision fans can be counted on one hand.

>>95317487
I mean, kind of? I don't want to read a story where the New Gods are generic or clean slate comics protagonists. I'd be more invested in a story that wasn't borrowing on their history for that.

It's not like I think the story can't be good but... I'm not that interested in reading it. It's not so much a continuity or sacred cow thing as I'd like the heights of something to be respected, which I know is dumb as hell when it comes to cape comics. I suppose it just feels extra bad because normally the NGs don't get that much high profile attention and here they are but it's kinda crappy.

I am finding Tom King increasingly repetitive too, which doesn't help.

>>95317562
Stop being an idiot. Contempt? Get a grip.

>>95317372
>>95317541
Nice. Thanks guys.

The 9 panel grid fetishism is also getting to me. Even Moore only famously did in Watchmen, and this is much slower than Watchmen.

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>>95317487
Hey guys.

Guys.

I got an idea.

A million dollar original idea.

What if we took the god of escape, a celebrity with a good life married to a super tall amazon sex goddess...

...And made him suicidal?

You get me man?

What if we took this symbol of escaping your problems, of always overcoming what the world puts in your way no matter what, what if we took this hero, no, this super-hero...

...And pissed right on his face?

Gimme my Eisner.

>>95317728
The despair is gonna break. Scott is going to escape from it. That's the whole set up.

>>95317728
Do you seriously not see how retarded you sound? Is the concept of suicide too complex for you to handle? Yes, the god of freedom escaping suicide sounds like an interesting story. deal with it. There are other problems in this comic, but that is not one of them.

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>>95317777
>Take a bright, warm character and break him to the point he wants to kill himself
>"This too complex for you to handle bro?"

>>95317818
So I was right.

>>95317394
have you read king's quote on orion? he hates him.

>>95317844
>It's complex to flip a character to his opposite

Only if you're twelve and think being dysfunctional is somehow complex instead of being boring and predictable.

>>95317861
Why does he hate Orion?

>>95317777
The concept of suicidal heroes is rote even if you limit the scope to stories written by Tom King.

>>95317874
It's not complex, it's entirely common, just like you said. Then I ask you, why are you acting like this is such an unheard of thing?

>>95317894
according to king, he's a bully that lived a privileged life and his pain isn't real compared to scott's.

>>95317919
I'm not. I'm acting like this is lame as fuck story and a waste. We finally get a new Mr. Miracle story and he's suicidal.

And he didn't even check in with Shiloh after his suicide. What the actual fuck?

>>95317943
What? You can't be serious. What did he actually say?