Could a Batman Vidya Stealth Mechanic work without Detective Mode?

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>>95247709
Cont'd

Kind of puts me in a love-hate relationship with Detective Mode. On the one hand, I want to avoid it, so that I can feel like Batman, taking out mooks with my wits and observational skills alone. On the other, it's too useful not to use.

Is there a way to make a game with just as great a stealth mode while still giving you the feeling that you're doing things the way Batman would, with plausible technology? Any level design that would allow you to view the whole room at once without thermal/X-ray/sonar/whatever-he-uses would lack the terrain and vertical design that actually makes the levels fun and not just moving around an unfurnished box. Maybe you have to hack CCTVs, use recon drones, spy through keyholes before entering rooms, etc. to scope things out, instead of everything glowing for you? Maybe you do have augmented vision that can see through walls, but it doesn't distinguish between enemies and civillians, not highlight weapons, and you have to gauge this through context clues, like posture and audio? Maybe being wrong sometimes is just part of the gameplay?

>>95247709
it would work even better

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>>95247709
Yes you could just make it like splinter cell

>>95247731
Honestly I feel that for all MGSV's issues it had one of the nicer ways of tagging enemies, Batman could believably predict a henchman's patrol route, until you pass a certain distance.

So basically some sort of ocular gadget to tag enemies, heck even the ability to use the remote Batarang to tag and record further away henchmen.

Also isn't this vidiya?!

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>>95247709
that much power woukd corrupt a man.

>>95247709
>>95247731
3D movement hasn't exactly been perfected at this point. There's still going to be a situation where a character you couldn't see was hidden behind a wall or something. That isn't so much a problem in a 2D video game because you could just place the relevant characters on the map as needed, even when it is outside the character's view. But as long as you're talking about a first-person or third-person camera, there will be some things which a character "should" be able to detect but the player simply will not.

Plus, lock-on is still a concern, hence why specific characters and objects glow a specific color. Humans have depth perception and so can easily tell a flagpole from a painting of a flagpole on a building, but that's very difficult in a game projected onto a flat TV screen at a constant set difference. The same thing with identifying and targeting enemies: Batman would certainly know a cop from a thug, but the player might not be able to make that distinction, hence why so many games just color-code things or make them glow the appropriate colors, so a player doesn't mistakenly beat up the cop and get surprised when they fail a mission for unknown reasons.


Ideally, the best way to handle a "detective" game like Batman might be the Hitman method. However, that has its own problems, specifically that you are expected to play through (and fail) a mission repeatedly until you learn the map well enough to get through it as easily as you'd want to. I can understand the developers not having the skill to pull that off, not wanting to be limited to the mission-based game that Hitman is, or just not wanting people to play a Batman game where they get beat up 90% of the time. Most people playing a Batman game are probably looking to "feel like" Batman, not necessarily feel like they're playing a detective game.

Wrong board ya dingus

>>95249375
I think that video games have developed a design language for letting players intuitively know what's interactive and what's just scenery, and if is often more subtle than something glowing yellow when you push a button. Things like more sheen, contrasting colors, objects that just look more "interesting" than other objects, etc. I think using this subtly would let players feel more like detectives when looking for clues, rather than the game just pointing things out for you.

I agree about the limits of 3D tech for letting the player see everything their avatar would. Seeing as you can't have the peripheral vision and environmental awareness on a screen that we enjoy in real life, I guess you need some sort of mechanic like DM or a radar to compensate.

I agree with you about not making the games a "trial and error" thing where Batman is getting his shit pushed in by mooks left and right. You want to feel like you're a vulnerable man, but with more training and expertise than some guy with a baseball bat.

>>95251050
>I think that video games have developed a design language for letting players intuitively know what's interactive and what's just scenery
Now you are just sounding like dozens of articles on the subject.

I should note that, while video games do have a sort of "language" for highlighting important bits, I don't think that all (or even most) video games are making good use of them. Most video games seem more interested in marketing than anything else, so even when they have the option, a lot appear to choose not to and instead pick something that looks good in screenshots. Batman picking up a random photo and saying something about a clue looks far better in a Youtube video than having something shiny which might attract the player's attention, and so you'll frequently find objects which blend into the scenery with a "Press A" when you get close enough to pick it up, as opposed to shiny reflective bits.

Or, even better, backgrounds intentionally designed to draw the eye to a specific spot. That's something that's utilized even less.

>I agree about the limits of 3D tech for letting the player see everything their avatar would.
I'm not too sure they are limits, as opposed to just limitations that people have accepted because they haven't wanted to do something more experimental. Something strange like highlighting "echoes" around a corner would likely confuse a new player, unless the whole game is designed to show off "echoes" of everyone's footprints as they move around. Even something as simple as having the camera further drawn back rather than an over-the-shoulder view could work, although again, the industry is currently very stuck in its way of currently doing things and so every game "must" have that kind of viewpoint. Even when it doesn't complement the game at all.

>>95251050
>>95252355
Two other things to note.

Your mention of video game design language can help with the whole cop/villain divide. Putting the cops in bold blue and the villains in some sort of distinctive red would make them clearly identifiable at just a glance. Perhaps a Red Hood gang, or something similar. This probably works better in a more cartoony setting, as the insistence on more realistic graphics tend to turn the cop uniforms into a dark blue/greyish color during night. And any colored clothing on thugs is just going to be reduced to a bandana or sash. Again, it's the problem of many developers too stuck in their own ideas.

There are some interesting detective games out there, but here's the thing: they don't feel very Batman. Sure, you could have a great game about using reason and detective work to figure out the bad guy. You could even split it up with the occasional fistfight. But really, it's a different experience than reading or watching Batman. The Bat just stops at a few places, picks out a few key clues, and manages to arrive at the correct conclusion in the end. You might be better off trying to work that into a game rather than trying to make a "Detective Batman" title.

There's an old detective VG resolution mechanics (I think that Taletell likes using this one) where you answer a series of questions before the final stage. I think that that, most of all, would apply best to a Batman game. Beat up some thugs in the first few areas, collect some clues, and make the player pay some attention to the areas when they are done. Then the final question leads to the place they need to go for the wrap-up of the case. Yes, that is silly and cheesy as fuck. But is also feels like Batman, because while it really isn't detective work, it is the whole "well this and this and this leads to the final conclusion" that Batman honestly loves pulling out of his ass most of the time.

>>95249157
I hope they remaster this so I can play them