Did nihilists ever find a good retort to this?

They didn't buy the comic.

There are none.

Pretty sure nihilists would agree... Even Nietzsche thought that nihilism was poison for the soul. The true, absolute nihilist just commits suicide. Otherwise, he admits that he perceives and seeks value, which makes him a hypocrite.

>>95228205
Given they're nihilists, what makes you think they feel the need to?

You could say that "right" and "good" are subjective artificialities and so there is no intrinsic value in making things right for anyone other than yourself.

>>95228205
What run is this from?

>>95228439
this

>>95228205
THAT TRYING TO MAKE THE WORLD GOOD IS DUMB BECAUSE NOTHING MATTERS

WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB

>>95228920
>there is no intrinsic value in making things right for anyone other than yourself.
Isn't that all that matters? Bill does "good" to feel good.

Nihilism isn't the belief that nothing matters, it's the belief that nothing inherently matters.

Nihilists would agree with this

>>95228920
>You could say that "right" and "good" are subjective artificialities
You could but you'd be mostly wrong. "Good" is generally agreed to be something that eases or causes the least amount of human suffering.
Unless you're psychotic you know that it's not good to shoot someone for no reason.

>>95228205
A good retort to the last panel is "but why?'. There is no point in being good if you are spiraling inevitably towards the void. Might as well amorally extract as much pleasure out of this joke of a life as possible before your body chokes out it's last breath and becomes a lifeless husk.

Every time with this shit. /co/ can't into nihilism.
If things doesn't matter than it's all the same if I'm alive or dead, however I only have perceived knowledge of life and none of death, so there's logical incentive to live until we're dead.

>>95229153
What if you're in Reno?

>>95229210
Because it's what he wants.

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>>95228205
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-uQWNd540I

>>95229153
Those are human abstractions, saying they are subjective artificialites is far from being "mostly wrong".

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>>95229153
but what if I shot someone like Hitler?

>>95229210
In the absence of objective order, one must think what is subjectively important to himself. I find the act of harming or killing another human being to be basely repugnant, so I abhor that sort of thing. I find that frustration is the root of many of the ills in our world, so I abhor anything that causes frustration without yielding peace as well. In the end, the nihilist must ask "what is important to me?" And in this, his philosophy falls apart

>>95229153
I suppose you can define good but the point is that, objectively, doing good is not in itself beneficial to the one doing the good.

Now keep in mind I'm not endorsing this. But the idea is that John Xeno on planet Buttfuck IV starving to death does not negatively or positively impact me in any way, therefore according to nihilism I shouldn't care about it. Bill has a moral code saying that if you can stop John Xeno from starving, you should.

The point is that Bill and a nihilist still could not reconcile their ideological differences here.

>>95229370
What... are you retarded? You just justified nihilism but then you said that by doing so the nihilist philosophy will fall apart.

>>95229432
Did I? Sorry, I've had a few beers. Can you explain how I justified nihilism real quick

>>95229365

That's only a good thing to people who like the Jews and Poles and Gypsies and the gays and the left.

>>95229365
Then you'd have killed a man. You can ask the same question replacing the subject with any other male and it does not change the fact that you committed cold blooded murder. I'm not saying you shouldn't but there should also be no illusions that the act is still "wrong".

>>95229451
You said that someone does something merely because it's what he desires, disregarding completely any supposed "universal value".
You refrain from killing not because it's an inherent value that killing is objectively wrong, but because you are satisfying your own selfish ego since you don't like killing. Also you are self preserving, because a society functions as a unity and if you harm part of it then society will retaliate, so by staying "in line" you are preserving your own physical integrity.
Basically everything we do is motioned by our selfishness.

In the same way Bill knows there is no meaning and nothing above, but he wants to do good because it feels good to him, not because it's "the right thing to do".

>>95229365
You could follow the belief that killing is wrong, but is justified because it would prevent large amounts of human suffering.

>>95229365
the nazi war machine owed its existence to U.S. corporations. you would be doing a good thing but only if someone didn't take his place. the first three answers you got were shortsighted because they don't consider utilitarian arguments.

the stress of being at the bottom of the economic ladder causes health problems in human beings. stress kills and it can damage your sperm/DNA. by not trying to make the world a better place, you may be contributing to the genetic weakness of your species while capitalists destroy the planet with externalities like pollution.

claiming that things don't matter is also a belief. nihilism is self contradicting, much like buddhism. the goal is to achieve nirvana, which is the absence of desire, but you have to have the desire to achieve it.

>>95229575
I guess what I'm saying is that there is no objective morality, but that it ought to be obvious to us as organisms that there is no profit in killing someone "just because". If we must perceive value in the world (and we must), we have, I believe, an obligation to our fellow man to perceive and generate the value which generates the least frustration and unhappiness among our fellow man. On a base level, aside from morality and ethics, life SHOULD feel good, and it should feel good for as many people for as much of the time as possible.

>>95228439
>The true, absolute nihilist
What, pray tell, do you think a true nihilist is?

>>95229741
Right, because "God Is Dead", he can no longer serve as the guide for our morality, thus, we must create our own morality, becoming the Ubermensch.

>>95229223
This. It's just astounding how little /co/ understands the shit it makes 50+ threads to complain about

>>95229830
i have always hated that phrase. there was never a god in the first place

>>95229978
That's because you're still looking at it in the most simple way possible.
A god is little more than an idea given meat.
So, for God to have died, it is the idea and faith behind it that is dead.
When a construct that asserts itself to inform us of how to live our lives has failed, we must shuck it and forge our own paths.

Like that moment when you realize that your parents don't hardly have a clue more than you do, you stop being a child and take the first steps into adulthood and making decisions for yourself.

When the All-Father can no longer guide you, you must become your own guide.

>>95230160
but no one is born believing in god. faith is forced on children by insecure adults. one of the reasons i'm an atheist is because i never truly believed adults in the first place. this is probably ad hominem, but isn't it the case that what your saying implies that nihilists are people who once believed deeply and then lost their faith? i'm skeptical of the validity of a sentiment concerning something imaginary that is contradictorily a posteriori

>>95229365

Stalin and Mao would still have killed 100mil ppl between them

>>95230448
>muh 100 gorillion

guess what, genius. famines happen literally all the time, especially throughout imperial history and at the present time. the focus on famines under Lenin, Stalin and Mao are all examples of selective outrage.

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>>95228205
>I look at the heavens and think them empty.
>In a universe where magic, ghosts, angels, demons and cosmic entities are commonplace
>In a universe where the existence of gods is part of my origin story

What a retard.

>>95230562
He doesn't consider Thor,Odin and the rest of the asgardians as gods.
>>95230323
>but no one is born believing in god. faith is forced on children by insecure adults.
That isn't belief in God or faith then. Faith is created by the believer.

>>95230562
>Beats up a god.

Then is it a god?

>>95229233
Cash had a reason. He says so in the damn song.

>>95230663
>created

coerced

>>95230562
>commonplace

you're right. it's not that fantastic if it's commonplace. if it happens all the time then that isn't FAITH. faith is the opposite of knowing.

>>95229714
>the nazi war machine owed its existence to U.S. corporations
>the US is responsible for Nazi's now

>>95230719
Then it isn't Faith.Its indoctrination.

>>95230758
yup. that's correct.

>>95230798
yes. there is no such thing as religious belief.

>>95230818
True religious belief would be crazy people literally imagining things or ACTUALLY god appearing to someone

>>95228205
but this is nihilstic optimism

>>95230818
>yes. there is no such thing as religious belief.
> I don't have it so one else does

>>95229000
don't remember the exact name but Secret Invasion Beta Ray Bill. It's one of the epilogue stories to the event and it's fucking great

>>95229210
>>95229370
Being moral also fits in with instinctual selfishness. Committing immoral acts negatively impacts you socially (most people don't want to hang out with someone who might murder them), which can lower the enjoyment you get of life. As many here are quick to point out, the civilization that created the devices we are wasting our lives on right now couldn't exist unless enough people agreed to behave largely within certain limitations, which might be reason enough alone for morality.

>>95229153
you are arguing for Sam Harris's The Moral Landscape. I think the idea has merit but it holds many flaws. an inherit one he acknowledges is that it's impossible to know whether you are climbing a good part of the landscape, one that leads to the most good, or one that plateaus very early and leads to no pay off.

There are clear good and bad in some circumstances but in others it's impossible to decern.

>>95229000
>>95230890
God Hunter or God Killer, something like that.

>>95230870
The point being is that not a single person is a christian, muslim, buddhist, etc without them being exposed to those beliefs by someone else.

>>95230562
>proves himself better than a god
>doesn't worship said god

seems legit

>>95230870
>strawman argument

>>95230996
Then what is the origin of faith?

>>95231136
I meant in modern times, otherwise refer to >>95230845

>>95230494
Name a single famine that competes with any socialist one, even in medieval times.
More importantly one that was also directly caused by government decisions.

>>95228205
good is relative

>>95231101
If he's going to be so presumptuous as to say that it's impossible for it to exist simply due to him not being a witness to it, then yes I'm going to try and refute his arguments at his level.

>>95231234
The Aztec one. It was an Autocrasy.

>>95231157
>came from crazy people

There were also probably some percentage started by people with the intent to spread something they themselves didn't believe.

>>95229789
someone who thinks there is no value in anything, including their own life

anyone who calls themselves a nihilist but doesn't commit suicide isn't really a nihilist

>>95231354
That isn't what nihilism is

>>95231299
How very selective indignation to curse socialism for it's kills while constantly praising those Aztecs, right.

>>95231354
You are fucking retarded. There is no value in death either, moron.
Why would a nihilist go through the effort of killing oneself?

>>95230704
yeah, why not? Gods used to get beat up by exceptional mortals all the time.

>>95231354
what's the point in suicide?

>>95231354
Not really because the act of sucide would be a waste of time if said person didnt value death

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relevant

>>95228205
defeatist cucks don't read comics

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>>95228205
Beta Ray Bill is the best Marvel characters of all time. Even in universe, he is one of the millions of best on the planet to be put through tests that kill most of them, he comes out alive as the best of his entire species. Not good enough? Fucking genetically modify and cyborg him so he is no longer recognizable and send him into space.

Based Ray Bill

>>95231792
source please

>>95231234
are you fucking serious? there were famines under the czars alone. read some fucking history holy shit. there are books that are over a thousand pages long on poverty in the middle ages. holy shit you can't just say "oh well that famine under Lenin and that famine under Stalin were the worst" when the 20th century was the most populous of history and you aren't considering the total lives lost from famine in the centuries before.
>caused by government decisions
the states are usually controlled by capitalists. governments are far and away controlled by capitalists throughout a majority of history. any governments that weren't were probably invaded by other governments and their histories destroyed. because that's what conquerors do.

>>95231402
the fuck is wrong with you. no one praised the aztecs. stfu

>>95228205
I like weird horse thor

>>95231463
>Why would a nihilist go through the effort of killing oneself?
Why would they go through the effort of living?

>>95234075
same as OP, Secret Invasion Beta Ray Bill story. It's pretty good

>>95234186
cause I have been programmed to live. It's harder to break certain programming than others. I will eventually kill myself, but only after all my affairs are done and I leave only the mark on the earth I want to leave. No kids of course to worry about, only my personal legacy

>>95229153
There's a big difference between not causing suffering and actively doing something good.

>>95234232
>nihilist caring about personal legacy
Alright, now I'm even more confused.

>>95234198
thanks. i've always wondered but didn't think to ask until now.

>>95234198
is it a volume TPB or a single issue?

>>95234299
no, I am not a nihilist. I just understand their perspective. I guess I fit best as a Naturalist

>>95234344
here you go anons

http://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Secret-Invasion-Aftermath-Beta-Ray-Bill-The-Green-of-Eden

>>95228205
But Bill is being a nihilist here. This entire interaction is nihilism in a nutshell. Only people who watch Bojack or Pickle and Morticia think nihilism is about depression and loneliness.

>>95234368
but nihilists were saying there's no value or meaning in morals. BRB is placing value in "good". Either good has objective value (and i think it does) or nihilists must also acknowledge that their value system is just as sollipsistic as everyone else's which is completely absurdist. And if it's absurd, their nihilist value systems themselves implode.

>>95234363
thanks again /co/mrade

>>95234437
no INHERINT good. Bill says there is nothing good that is born good, only the work towards good is something worth while. Nihilism says nothing against that, work is worthwhile, just something being there is NOT worth anything

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ill try

>>95234437
Again, you're leaving out the most important word in nihilism: "inherent." There is no inherent morality. There is no inherent good. When Nietzsche wrote "God is dead" he wasn't abrogating morality, he was only saying that morality wasn't a universal concept like, say, gravity.

All value is assigned by human beings. This is not depressing or hopeless, it's quite the opposite.

>>95234478
>nihilism says nothing against that

okay, so i think you're trying to obfuscate. there IS inherent good, because striving for excellence and self improvement is a reflection of survival. many organisms' survival rate is higher when in social and cooperative settings where collective labors are greater than the some of individual labors' parts.

"Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution destroys that premise. Life, as in the literal phenomenon of life has meaning for those organisms that live. Humans are not the only things alive. Just because organisms (vertebrates for instance) don't question the meaning of life does not mean that animals don't instinctively resist death. Their bodies have intrinsic value to them on an unconscious level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

>>95228377

FPBP

>>95234604
*greater than the sum*

>>95234368
>in spite of the hollowness of life, he doesn't sit on his ass and succumb to concrete pleasures
>instead hopes to go forth and immerse himself and others with hope despite the futility of life
>yet he's a true nihilist
Go home.

>>95234654
>I have no idea what nihilism is or means and I get my philosophy from Bohorse and Rickle

Reading is hard, I know.

>>95234693
different anon here. nihilism means there's no value to life. having a moral code excludes nihilism

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>>95234604
Nihilism says nothing against science, it embraces it. it is mostly against objective value.

>"Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value."

yes, yes, Vir, you can have varying levels of belief. Just cause you believe the idea of something doesn't mean you have to make a jihad about it read it in his voice

>>95234769
No it doesn't. Nihilism only says there is no inherent value to life or anything else. It doesn't say you can't value anything.

Having a moral code that you are aware of and work to maintain is the ultimate expression of nihilism. By constructing a moral code you admit there wasn't a moral code you liked to begin with. Turn off Pickle Man.

>>95228205
Why would a nihilist try to find a retort against something he probably already believes in?

>>95234347
>I just understand their perspective
no you don't, because you believe that your legacy has some value.

ITT:

>Why should I be honest? I’ll be laid out, anyhow!
>Why should I not be honest! I’ll be laid out, anyhow.

t. literature

>>95235195
understanding something does not mean emulating it. Go back you fucking millennial.

>>95228205
Nihilism is just a gateway to existentialism, so a lot of nihilists would agree. Also the foundation of Secular Humanism.

>>95229210

The idea is to cultivate a technologically advanced society that eventually becomes "god" and resurrects all consciousnesses that have ever existed with said super technology eventually become the very dieties and meaning and eternity we once worshipped. Obviously.

>>95230562
Honestly even if there were gods that were these all powerful entities that created things, I often find it hard to understand why they'd been seen as having any inherent value that makes it meaningful to follow them, it's always done through coercion and fear. So theism is nihilistic, too. If I program VR and force the NPCs to follow me it doesn't change the universe.

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>>95228205
Good? Good? Is that supposed to be some sort of a joke?
We're monsters.
The very notion that we're somehow capable of being good or even creating good isn't even obscene, it's downright laughable.
Deep down in places that we don't even like to admit to ourselves exist, we all know the irrefutable and inescapable fact of the human condition - that evil is more primary than good.

>inb4 m-muh edgy teenager
Look at the evolutionary history of the entire planet and there isn't a single species, sentient or otherwise, that even comes close to the things we do to ourselves. Mankind's inhumanity to mankind is profoundly embedded in our very makeup that our base instinct is to destroy rather than to create, to kill rather to save.

For every act of compassion, we've done worse a dozen times over. For every 5th Symphony, a genocide. For every Mona Lisa, a famine. For every Sistine Chapel, a war. For every food parcel, a bomb. For every blanket, a chemical attack. Jesus fucking Christ, we design weapons specifically intended to slaughter as many of ourselves as possible in the most horrendous way imaginable. We poison and destroy the very Earth that provides and nourishes us just so that the people we hate can't benefit from her gifts.
And that's before we even get to the commonalities like murder, theft, slavery and every other monstrosity we've fabricated.

In our constant struggle for self-preservation, hardly ever do we stop and actually ask ourselves the hard question of whether we merit survival.

Maybe I'll just summarize with a brief pop culture reference.
Ripley in Aliens: "I don't know which species is worse - you don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."

>>95235367
People using milinial as an insult on 4chan never made any sense.
It's admitting you're 35+ and still here, which is a special kind of pathetic.

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>>95236188
fuck up cunt, you'll feel differently once you finish high school and make a couple of friends
don't be so down in the dumps becuase your mum didn't renew your xbox live membership

>>95228205
>Did nihilists ever find a good retort to this?
Yes, it's "Let us make good"

>>95231354
>assigning value to suicide
>nihilism

Stick to the funny books, capefag. It's amazing how such a simple concept as nihilism is too hard to understand for a brainlet like you.

>>95231354
There is no intrinsic meaning/value. That doesn't mean people cannot have personal meaning/value. It's pretty much impossible not to, we are only human after all and "meaning" is the only thing our minds understand.

>>95228205
What happens if we don't have the same political beliefs as Beta Ray Bill?

>>95236188
are you that guy from hatred

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>>95236188
Yes.
So what?
Before us there were only animals that would gladly tear each other's infants to shreds to feed their own.

Yes, we have done the same.
But the fact that there are some days where we don't is the best you're going to get in this lifespan.

What species of saints would you compare us to?

Your entire lineage is from adults having just enough compassion to ensure their offspring survive to reproductive age.

The machine you're typing this on
is the result of hundreds of years of cooperative effort & human knowledge.

>people hurt each other and molest children.
Yep.
This may be horrifying news to you at your age, but that's just part of growing up.
You are free to keep living.
You are free to walk away from civilization, into the woods or elsewhere.

I intend to use my finite life-hours to build a world where life is just a little easier for the children that come after me, as my ancestors did for me.