What's the most overrated comic?

>>95185605
I don't think I know anyone who rates No Man's Land highly. Even people who love it admit it has problems.

All-Star Superman
It's OK but its fans treat it as the second coming of christ and it's not at all that good.

>>95185622
It's on pretty much every "recommended Batman" list. It does have its moments but it's way too long for its own good and has way more problems than good parts.

File: Kingdom_Come_2.jpg (99KB, 452x700px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 452x700px

>>95185605
/thread

File: Dark_knight_returns.jpg (27KB, 300x450px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 300x450px

I'm not trying to knock it or anything, but Dark Knight Returns is so overblown. It's important from a comic history perspective, but compared to the other really big comic that ushered in the Dark Age (Watchmen) it's a joke.

>>95185605
probably Watchmen

File: 1458716806989.jpg (34KB, 648x361px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 648x361px

Gordon and Oracle were written so fucking badly in NML. Also Superman came in and gave up immediately. And then Batman blows up the power plant because fuck people.

>>95185622
Every issue of NML that was focused on other Batfamily members than Batman and Cass (and maybe Nightwing) was dogshit. Same as mini-events preceding main event, like Aftershock or Cataclysm. If we take them out of the picture, NML was great. Somewhat believable post-apocaliptic scenario in modern continuity, with lasting consequences. That's pretty rare.

>>95186060
>Also Superman came in and gave up immediately.
I enjoyed Superman cameo. The moral of it was "you can't fix society by flexing your Kryptonian muscles". Nothing extremely original but it was realistic and quite well written.

>>95185605
I enjoyed the novelization more desu.

I like final night but people don't give it enough shit for how bad the ending was.

>>95186109
It's not like Superman at all. He doesn't give up. There's hundreds of ways to help the city but he just gives up immediately after one very small setback.

>>95186156
>after one very small setback
Batman's spotlight entitlement isn't what I'd call small, anon. Clark had no chance. The writers had no chance.

>>95185605
Morrison's X-Men

>>95186156
Why are Superfags so autistic? Everything is out of character for them.

>>95185605
Killing Joke hands down.

>>95186506
Is it really overrated? Everyone I've met hates it because of what he did to Magneto.

>>95185655
This

>>95186541
Ding ding ding
It's nice but jesus christ people.
The people who argue over which colors are best are the worst. They are both fucking trash coloring jobs.

>>95185605
Everything written by Waid, Cucka, Johns, Memender, current DC and Image.

>>95186860
All of Lemire's capeshit work too.

>>95186860
Comics you don't like =/= Overrated

>>95186884
As opposed to everybody else posting comics they like.

>>95185605
I dislike Court of Owls but I don't know if it's popular enough to be called overrated.

>>95186917
You can enjoy a comic and admit it gets far more praise than it should.

>>95186941
But the ones I posted are famous and get far more praise than they deserve.

File: 20170908_150829.jpg (282KB, 711x493px) Image search: [Google]

282KB, 711x493px

>>95186518
>whole city is completely fucked
>I'll help
>the guy I helped sort of almost became corrupted and his friends insist on basic market functionality
>oh well, guess I'll fuck off then
He didn't even try.

>>95186156
But then he returned as Clark Kent and taught them how to grow food, and gave them rain. He learned from his setback and returned with a plan that helped.

>>95185605
saga

>>95185605
No one even knows about that, it's underrated. The Killing Joke is overrated as fuck.

>>95185605
The only reason people like No Man's Land is because it inspired The Dark Knight Rises.

>>95185732
go fuck yourself

Kingdom Come is great!, too bad Mark Waid went insane

>>95187532

No, the reason people like it is it's such a baller idea for a comic arc that even a mediocre execution is enough. You can imagine the factions forming and the problems being set up in your head, and even if they fuck them up it's still a strong core.

>>95187532
>it inspired The Dark Knight Rises.
Rises was three different Batman stories mashed together and the last third was the worst part.

New 52 Justice League's first arc. I get that it's easy for casuals to get into but I just really dislike it.

>>95187347
fucking this
>whacky Joker dance number
>m-muh ambiguous ending

its essential Batman reading sure if youve never read Batman before
guess the audience was just different went it came out

>>95185605
>What's the most overrated comic?

everything ever produced by Marvel

Marvel's Civil War

>>95187699

I used to defend Hush until I realised it was a complete ripoff of The Long Halloween if it was written by a child.

I still can't believe Loeb write both.

Azz's Wonder Woman. It's alright, but too many fags act like it's the only good WW story ever written

A Serious House. Entertaining, but it's overloaded symbolism bordered in the pretentious.

>>95187699

This right here. I get that it's essentially a Greatest Hits in that it includes all of the major villains and Bat Family but it is objectively a horrendously written story. The final issue is the revealed villain recapping the entire plot to the reader and explaining every single scene and character so that it actually makes sense. Horrible writing. Plus Hush has so much potential and it's completely wasted

Mileage varies with Jim Lee's art. I've actually come around to enjoying it but I'm it hasn't aged well. I remember when this was considered the pinnacle of comic book art which is hilarious now.

Long Halloween is a 10/10. Hush is a 5/10.

>>95187878

I love Hush as a character but Heart of Hush does what the original Hush story failed to do but so much better.

>>95187699
Hush is good if taken as individual stories. Each one is really good at showcasing the starring villain and showing how each of them give any Batman story they appear in a distinct style. It's basically a mini-primer on how to write them. Taken as a whole singular storyline it doesn't hold up.

>>95187921

Hush is literally only good for the most base-tier new people getting into comics as a glorfied primer.

Which has its value, but that doesn't make it a good story. And honestly, you should just give them Long Halloween.

Watchmen/Kingdom Come
People lose their shit if you don't like them.
Anything by Clowes.

I don't really want to start a fight but anyone saying watchmen either hasn't actually read it fully or doesn't understand it's context.

I'm willing to admit that's a blanket statement and may be wrong in some instances but it's NOT overrated. It's overrated by the people who don't understand it because they don't think Gold and Silver Age comics are silly but blog about it because they know it's pedigree.

You really can't appreciate it without understanding that as much as deconstructing the ideas of capeshit it celebrates them. While doing incredible things with format.

>>95187699
>>95187720
>>95187878
I love you anons. TLH is one of the few that I think gets a perfect rating. Deserves it's spot on the top ten lists and such. Reading Hush after that was nearly impossible.

>>95188011
Most people that don't like them are the type to say "Old comics are silly, you really don't need to go back and read them".

>>95188017

>TLH is one of the few that I think gets a perfect rating

Holiday is the only interesting version of Evil Batman I've ever seen. Making it more of a general concept and building it into the themes of the character is so much better then Evil Rich Man With Power Armor #486 which is what we normally get.

>>95185732
This is probably it.

I always thought Watchmen and TDK/DKR were very overrated.

>>95187699
Everything Loeb wrote is overrated af too. He got his fame just because he started as a TV writer.

Why are these threads always filled with DC's stuff

Cataclysm, Aftershock and No Mans Land weremail brilliant, meaningful epics that show Batman battling human problems like poverty or natural disasters rather than just punching evertyping. It can't be overrated when only like 5 people on /co/ have read it.

>>95187347
TKJ is still far better than No man's land and everything Batman by Loeb and Snyder.

>>95188078
Whats the oldest comic you've read?

>>95188130
>TKJ is better than TLH
As a moorefag this is incorrect. I'd slap the fat bearded faggot myself if he ever said that.

>>95187699
It is widely considered as shit now, outside of click bait lists for people who don't read comics. So I don't think it should count as overrated.
TLH is more overrated. It was a mediocre story and a shitty mystery carried by Sale's art, and is liked by a lot of people.

>>95188179
>mediocre story and a shitty mystery
provide why you think so other than that's what you read by contrarian posters. I see this all the time and nobody can ever elaborate.

>>95188166
TKJ is a greatly executed and structured one shot, while Loeb can't even write.

>>95188232
I disagree. You could try giving some reasoning or examples.

>>95187878
>The final issue is the revealed villain recapping the entire plot to the reader and explaining every single scene and character so that it actually makes sense.
Been a long time since I read Hush. Is this true? That's hilarious. Anime-tier.

>>95188260
Of what? TKJ or TLH?

>>95188039
Source: your ass.

>>95186560
It's rubbish

>>95188219
>The story is full of filler. Loeb just decides to add Joker and other rogues to stretch it out to fill a maxi series.
>Dent's wife as the killer was dumb. Her motives were just as laughable as Hush.
>It was never a mystery story. It was Batman fighting his rogues, with the reveal at the end.
It was Hush before Hush was a thing.

>>95188403
Antone Falcone or whatever his name, being the killer was meh too. There was no punch in the entire story.

>>95188338
It's pretty clear anecdotal statement. I'm not sure why you think you're discounting me by saying it's from my ass. Just as you can't factually prove that I'm wrong, just anecdotally.

>>95188321
Reasoning why you think it's a good one-shot, both in execution and structure. Reasoning why you think Loeb can't write (only specifically in The Long Halloween).

>>95188403
>Dent's wife as the killer was dumb. Her motives were just as laughable as Hush.
I disagree. She wanted the shit to end so she could have a happy life with her husband without criminals attacking their home. Pretty damn good reason.

>It was Hush before Hush was a thing.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.
But second may be
>It was never a mystery story. It was Batman fighting his rogues, with the reveal at the end.

That's a mystery. Reading it afterwards or in trade format ruins a bit of the fun in finding out or thinking about it issue to issue.

If you're going to be contrainian, at least give an example of a better story.

>>95188483
>Tommy Elliot just wanted to live happily by enacting his life long dream of killing Bruce Wayne
"Dent's wife was a super ninja who could take out mobsters and the person who was dead was alive the whole time, and I'll do it again in Hush" is a cop out ending.

>>95188453
>It's pretty clear anecdotal statement. I'm not sure why you think you're discounting me by saying it's from my ass. Just as you can't factually prove that I'm wrong, just anecdotally
typically defensive moorefag.

>>95188546
>Tommy Elliot just wanted to live happily by enacting his life long dream of killing Bruce Wayne
this is incredibly disingenuous to prove your point. It's not really the same at all in that regard. The structure and character inclusion is the similarity.

i take it you read Hush first and TLH (maybe you havent even read TLH) after?

>Dent's wife was a super ninja who could take out mobsters
That's untrue. She snuck around and shot people at their most vulnerable moments. There's no ninjutsu involved in that.

>the person who was dead was alive the whole time, and I'll do it again in Hush" is a cop out ending.
That's "bad writing" and a "cop out" in Hush. Doing it the first time is not. It's the repeat that is lazy not the original.

>>95188559
I've called myself a moorefag above. But I'm the fucking person saying moore is a big fat faggot if he himself ever said or thought The Killing Joke is a better (by any measure) batman story than The Long Halloween (which is not a comparison I made but simply replied to. I don't think a one-shot and a maxi are necessarily comparable)

>>95185794
>>95185844
>>95185844
>>95188078
>>95185734
Shit opinions.

V for Vendetta might be one of the most overrated comics ever. Most comics I find one or two things I like in them, for this I found none.

>>95188546

TLH was never about the actual reveal. Holiday was to Alberto and Dent's wife what Batman was to Bruce, a way to full the holes in themselves and externalise their insecurities. Alberto finally got noticed by other people and Mrs. Dent had a way to vent her problems with being neglected by her husband. Holiday was a concept in the same way that Batman is.

Hush was trash because it was just about the mystery. There was nothing to Tommy as a character, and the reveal was meaningless because they were too fucking cowardly to actually make Jason Hush, which is the only way that story makes any fucking sense.

>>95188585
I read TLH first. Both are bad irrespective of him repeating it, and more because of the stupid direction and ass pull moments. A housewife sneaking up on mobsters is retarded.

>>95188637
Sounds good, I disagree. You didn't give me much but more than most contrarians give me.

I have yet to see a good reason why The Long Halloween is trash other than "Loeb wrote it and he's shit" or "It's the same story as a story that came years after".

File: dark pheonix saga.jpg (53KB, 220x334px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 220x334px

>>95185605
I don't know if I would even put this in the top 10 claremont X-men stories and yet everyone acts like it's the best marvel comic ever

>>95188667
>>95188654
I'll add, since you did, that I disagree that it's retarded.

>>95188681
It was a pretty big deal when it was happening
( yes I am that old)

>>95186927
It's been forced like Curse of Shazam and JL Origin, so you might be onto something.

>>95188653
>>95188453
The concepts were good, but Loeb can't execute shit. Both were paper thin background characters. The story overall was lackluster and doesn't come together.
Compare that to Moore's execution of TKJ. He has more twists to a simple cat and mouse story. The beginning was done great, attention to details, Joker's origin being a ruse, Batman not ultimately falling for Joker's plan, the ending pun were perfectly executed and had more weight. Moore could execute simple concepts, twists and plot points in Swamp Thing flawlessly as well. I'm not saying TKJ is a GOAT Batman comic, but it's a finely done one shot. Moore at his worst is still better than Loeb at his best.

>>95188803
>Moore at his worst is still better than Loeb at his best.
>Moore could execute simple concepts, twists and plot points in Swamp Thing flawlessly as well

Honestly we have no more to say to each other. Moore being a good writer doesn't matter. His shitty story does. It's shock value with no resolution. It had NO point.

Other than the typical batman point of "the joker wanted to do a thing and couldn't. And then Batman won."

In The Long Halloween batman very clearly lost. It's why Nolan stole from it so much.

You're evaluation of paper thin is complete bullshit if you aren't going to admit the glaring problems with Babs in TKJ ("problems" I'm usually defending from disingenuous SJW i hate that term faggots).

It seems you just don't like Loeb. Or think that since Moore is better that every story he wrote is better than every story Loeb wrote.

I sincerely think TLH would be one of the few Bat stories Moore himself would say at least tries some interesting things. TKJ, if normies didn't think it was Jokers actual origin, wouldn't be so well-regarded. Especially if it was written (exactly the same panel for panel, word for word) by Dixon or Grant.

What was the moral? Or even the direction? "Bad day turns you crazy". Well it didn't. So what have we gotten other than a wasted 40 minutes of reading.

File: 1753719-kingdomcomehd[1].jpg (486KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

486KB, 1600x1200px

>>95185605
its a good story but gets way too overblown by fans, the writing often just feels like Waid/Ross going full ''NOT MUH'' with 90's superheroes wich really dates it back, if somebody where to read this without being very familier with the tropes of the 90's it comes over as old men screaming at clouds
i gotta say i love all the redesigns everyone got

>>95188883
>Redesigns
you mean un-re-designs?

>>95188876

> Both were paper thin background characters. The story overall was lackluster and doesn't come together.

They had exactly as much characterisation as they needed to serve the story. Again, Holiday was not the total focus of the story, it's the conceit to explore the themes of the characters.

>>95188876

>What was the moral? Or even the direction? "Bad day turns you crazy". Well it didn't. So what have we gotten other than a wasted 40 minutes of reading.

The problem is TKJ has been ripped off so many times that it's impossible to judge as its own thing now, i's John Carter Disease in comic form. And unlike, say, Returns, it's not good enough to escape that black hole of ripoffs.

But the "we're not so different you and I"-esque exploration of Batman and The Joker was nowhere near as much of a thing when that comic came out. And even if you hate that, it's an important part of the character.

File: 1494576240752.png (174KB, 1584x1054px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 1584x1054px

>>95188883
I think that might be a bit of an oversimplification. I've always enjoyed this anon's interpretation of Kingdom Come's themes, but I will admit that you run into the same problem either way. Whether you take it at face value or as a form of meta commentary, it is still tied to that specific context.

>>95188876
>It had NO point
How do you not get the point of TKJ? It was that everyone could become The Joker, and that Batman most of all was another version of The Joker. As >>95189063 said, it's been ripped off in that sense so many times that it may seem a tired story now. But for it's time it was a new analysis of the character

>>95187699
Literally baby's first Batman story

>>95188093
DC has more one shots that are easier for the casuals on /co/ to read.

File: IMG_2758.jpg (629KB, 1636x2521px) Image search: [Google]

629KB, 1636x2521px

This really is baby's first evil Superman story. I've seen casuals bring it up like it's canon, and talk about how good it is
>Because people die!
It's honestly fucking terrible and retarded. Supes and Bats are both huge manchildren, WW was just evil because "lol idk". Only two in character are Barry who is a bootlicker like always, and Hal who is an idiot. I'm pissed how it made casuals think Lois dying will instantly cause Supes to go evil.

>>95189157
>It was that everyone could become The Joker,
But that's wrong you fucking moron. Moore in fact lays out the exact opposite: That there was always something wrong with Joker and maybe his "tragedy" isn't actually why he went bad. You see this with Gordon who is not broken despite the horrifying trauma he's endured.

>>95189157
>it's been ripped off in that sense so many times that it may seem a tired story now. But for it's time it was a new analysis of the character

You're not son-ing me faggot. I'm well aware. But you fucked up anons point. It isn't that they're the same, it's that they aren't so different. Which is actually worlds apart.

There's also the fact that joker's plan didn't work. And one bad day wasn't the cause. And that babs was never touched upon. And that Gordon wasn't touched upon. They were vaslty more "paper thin" than Thomas and Alberto/Gilda. And we resolved nothing at the end other than "they're not so different" and "they'll do this forever." Great. But if that's the point of a non-canon one-shot why the fuck would you even write it? Literally, hero and his villain aren't so different and unless one kills the other will continue their hijinks. That wasn't and isn't new. It was simply new for the batman and joker at the time.

In all honesty, I'd like to see this discussion turn back to a comparative one instead of me simply talking about the killing joke. Maybe tell me why you think of literally any of the other points made. It just seems like I'm, a moorefag, being told why his worst story is better than one of the best Bat stories since Moore left DC.

>>95188166
Oldest? Not sure off the top of my head. I've been working my way through Detective Comics from issue #1, I suppose that counts. I read a lot of pulps as well, although those are not comics.

>>95189326
I hate this shit more than anything ever created. I'm not lying. I see normies post it everywhere cause they played the game and "it's all based on the comics."

>>95189384
I think I should clarify since reasing it back I do seem like I'm just flat out hating TKJ. I don't. I think it's fine and entertaining enough. But when it's held up as great, or better than a legitimately great story, I get angry. It's only ever done so because of Moore's name.

When put to scrutiny it has a plethora of weaknesses. But as it stands by itself its enjoyable and interesting.

>>95189326

> I'm pissed how it made casuals think Lois dying will instantly cause Supes to go evil.

And it's infected the movies too.

>SHE WAS MY WORLD AND YOU TOOK HER FROM ME

bravo snyder

>>95189384

>But if that's the point of a non-canon one-shot why the fuck would you even write it? Literally, hero and his villain aren't so different and unless one kills the other will continue their hijinks. That wasn't and isn't new. It was simply new for the batman and joker at the time.

The 80's were a weird transitional prod of time for Batman where people desperately wanted to shake off the cornball 60's stuff and were far away from it that it wasn't editorial mandate like in the 70's. TKJ was important at that time for doing dark, edgy Batman.

I'm not saying TKJ is a great work of art. I'm the guy who was saying it got swallowed by its imitators, and also the other guy defending Long Halloween. But it's an important historical artifact.

>>95188166
>>TKJ is better than TLH
>As a moorefag this is incorrect
I don't hold TKJ in high regards but it is true. TLH is Loeb doing ripping off The Godfather and Silence of the Lambs, it has many out of character moments and some absolutely retarded twists at the end. It's saving grace is Tim Sale's art.
Dark Victory is a better written book, but since it came out after, people mostly disregard it as a TLH ripoff (which it kinda is anyway).

tl;dr version: Loeb is a shitty writer, even at his best, and Moore is a good one, even at his worst.

>>95189573

>Dark Victory is a better written book, but since it came out after, people mostly disregard it as a TLH ripoff (which it kinda is anyway).

Dark Victory is Long Halloween with all the themes taken out and replaced with 90's serial killer nonsense.

>>95189573
This post pretty much proves you've wasted my time.

The brunt of it is debatable and I might actually consider discussing DV to TLH. But that last sentence reiterates the true reasoning behind you view.

Why do you hate Loeb so much? Are you a Hulk fan? I've never understood the blind hate. I so completely disagree with "Loeb is a shitty writer, even at his best" it really isn't worth talking. Despite that in 90% of cases I agree with "and Moore is a good one, even at his worst."

You simply cannot accept that Loeb wrote a better story, even one, than Moore.

>>95189075
Capping your own posts.

>>95188093
Keeping well-known stories in print causes them to continue to be well-known. I find it harder to name individual Marvel story arcs instead of just Big Event names.

File: War_of_Kings_1.jpg (68KB, 300x456px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 300x456px

Annihilation was great, Conquest was good but War of Kings is boring and dull but everyone praise it just because it got on the wagon of the first 2.

>>95188093
Marvel barely have any iconic stories that enough people talk about to make them overrated. There's Civil War and House of M but most of their other stuff isn't well known in the same way as DC's is

>>95190390
wow, what a casual

>>95190440
it's easier to list well known and often recommended dc stories than it is to list any for Marvel, in particular stand alone stories and elseworlds, because their are still being published and are generally easier to come across

>>95189846
Nigga, I didn't write those posts. I figured everyone on this board had seen that little spiel by now.

>>95188093
You need to have comics before they can be rated. Overrated doesn't mean "bad," it means "rated more highly than it should be." Everyone already rates Marvel comics poorly so they can't be overrated.

>>95188602
The thing about V for Vendetta that stands out for me is how in that story V read about The Land of Do As You Please that was supposed to be about how great Anarchy is the story had a character who was taking lead. Also V had too many things go his way, the plot was on his side.

File: for asgard.jpg (162KB, 486x750px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 486x750px

>>95190674
you're too young to be on 4chan

>>95185605
Last Stand of the Wreckers.

>>95189075
So heroes are only supposed to fight other heroes when they run out of villains? Someone tell Marvel they missed a step.

>>95185605
It has problems, but it's not terrible. It's main flaw was that it went on for too dang long. I mean, there's like 6 telephone books of TPBs. Too dang much.

>>95187532
Rises was 1 part NML, 1 part The Cult, 1 Part TDK Returns.

>>95185605
this
this fucking comic, boring and tedious as fuck

>>95185732
Justice is a far better story.

>>95189771
I'm not the guy you were talking to before. And I don't hate Loeb, I think he's a shit writer although he occasionally did serviceable things. I liked Spider-Man Blue for what it is. But none of his "classic" works would be remembered if it wasn't for Sale. It's him who made those mediocre comics into classics.

>>95190440
It's true though. Marvel had many memorable long time runs, but not so many iconic stories like TKJ, TDK, Kingdom Come, etc.

File: 1477766778561.png (35KB, 255x213px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 255x213px

This thread makes me sad. Am I a brainlet for liking "Hush"?

>>95190149
I agree. I love conquest, and even the Thanos Imperative, but WoK is dead boring.

>>95185794
Watchmen was fucking shit and I feel like that one guy who knows Boo's a chicken.

>Plot could have been slashed in half
>Ridiculous characters you can't give a shit about
>2edgy4u plot that tries too hard to be a deconstruction. Attempted rape! A pedo! Excessive violence! We're a grown up comic!
>Too many pages taken up by a shitty pirate comic that's supposed to mirror the main plot SO DEEP WOW
>Ozzy's plot is literally to teleport a giant psychic space vagina into the city for world peace

It was garbage and I will never understand why people cream themselves over it.

>>95192928
What a way to miss the entire point of the comic and analize things out of context.
I hope you just turned 18.

File: 1503959800412.jpg (27KB, 395x395px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 395x395px

>>95185732
>/thread-ing yourself
Why do people do this? It's the 4chan equivalent to saying "mic drop"

>>95192928
>how to miss the point