What did /co/ learn from Secret Empire?

That Nick Spencer is a ___

I learned that Marvel's actually going to fucking do it again. They're going to crash the industry AGAIN, just like in the 90s. It's disgraceful. And they'll feel no shame in it, either, just like they didn't feel shame the last time.

>>95140391

Nothing, because i will never read it

>>95140391
That /co/ will shitpost about just anything

>>95140391

To not buy Marvel even if there's a few titles I enjoy

>>95140391
to thank god I finished buying the Punisher MAX and Black Panther complete collections before I read this shit so I don't have to give Marvel money anymore

I learned from Natasha after years of intense CQC super spy karate training that the best way to stop an attack is to block it with your neck

>>95140423
If only DC wasn't shit enough to stop it

>>95140391
Marvel are a fucking joke, also cosmic cubes save the day yet again

>>95140391
I learned Frank would betray all his values and the very core of his being to work for a supervillain because they promised to bring his family back.

>>95140391
That event can't not only affect the quality of all the books involved, but also of the board.

>>95140391
That annual events are fool's gold and an outright repellent to new readers and demographics which are desperately needed to keep the industry afloat

>>95140423
Marvel can't crash the industry by themselves.

Marvel can only crash itself.

>>95140847
if Marvel crashes, stores crash, and if stores crash, the industry as we know crashes

>>95140871
Stores aren't solely dependent on marvel, and have been less so in the last few years as everyone else has gained marketshare while marvel has been shedding readers.

>>95140913
I don't think you quite grasp how catastrophic losing 40% of your business would be, especially for comic stores with razor thin budgets

>>95140760
Fucking kek, every single scene of this mess is so goddamn half-assed it's unbelievable.

>>95140391
I don't get upset over shitty events if I don't read them.

>>95140391
I would say the biggest take away from all this is don't insert your politics into escapist fantasy, but anyone who isn't a retard already knows that and Marvel will never stop doing it.

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>>95140391
That captain falcon should have beaten Captain hydra.

Fuck this timeline.

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>>95140786
But only for Steve-sempai

>>95140925
You realize that when marvel "crashed" before that they didn't stop making books, right?

>>95140977
You realize the 90s crash basically killed the industry and it's been limping along to a slow death ever since, right?

I learned not to care. About anything.

>>95141001
I actually don't think you have any idea what the comic crash of the 90s was, how it came to be, or what the industry was like prior to the bubble that precipitated the crash.

>>95141014

He just wanted to crash because he hate comics.

>>95141001
>Comic industry sales grow year to year steadily
>No the industry has been slowly dying ever since the 90s!
Okay.

>>95140391
Pass the Ike.

>>95141043
>individual issues were selling in the millions and the hundreds of thousands regularly
>now it's a good month if the #1 comic breaks 100K

>>95141051
During the bubble, that was unsustainable and fueled by a mad influx of idiots thinking every comic was going to be worth thousands in a decade or two.

You know that that period was literally a blip on the entire comic industry's timeline, right?

>>95141051
X-Men #1 sold in the millions, nothing else really did, maybe Death of Superman and some other stuff.

The crash was due to spectators and Marvel thought it would continue. DC's Vertigo books continued selling more both during and after the crash cause those books cared about story not gimmicks. Marvel hasn't given a shit about story since 1989.

>>95140391
That all problems can be solved by a cosmic cube.

That civilian lives aren't important if it makes you look like a liar on twitter.

That no matter how hard yiu try and force a successor, the original will take back it's mantle.

Not every story needs to be made into a big event (I'm looking at you Brevoort).

That you can firebomb a bank and almost kill people and be rewarded with a superhero identity (as long as you're black).

That comic writers and editors should be banned from twitter.

That Narration boxes can be annoying as hell.

>>95141537

If I ever make it successful as a writer I am flat out avoiding social media like the plague. Well Id be staying the course I guess but you get my point

>>95141537
>That you can firebomb a bank and almost kill people and be rewarded with a superhero identity (as long as you're black).
I didn't follow this dumpster fire, what's the background on this?

>That comic writers and editors should be banned from twitter.

No one in a content creation capacity should use social media for anything but promotion under their actual name.

I am AMAZED so many people don't get this.

>>95140391
I only read a few issues towards the end but I learnt marvel is a joke.
I should read the rest.

>>95140391

Fascism is cool.

>>95140391
nothing

If Marvel bombs wont stores start selling more gook oriented stuff?

>>95140961
>Even Rick 'Frankencastle' Redemer gets Punisher better than the nu-writers at current mavel

>>95142016

No. If they thought they could make money from that they would already be doing it. I'm shocked that /co/ doesn't realize the majority of comic readers are massive character fags

>>95141919
Its been like ten years since social media became a thing. I still don't understand how after all this time big corporations don't have "don't talk about shit on social media or your fired" clauses in their contracts. I have to sign stuff saying I can't say so and so every-time I get a new job. Why doesn't Marvel?

>>95140961
Context?

>>95142033
Weird.
Oh well, here on Balkans we dont have comic only stores,we simply hold 1 wall in book stores for comics and mangas.

>>95142039
you only notice because they post leftist shit, Ethan Van Sciver is just as bad but he's a conservative.

>>95141001
>Nobody buys car A anymore
>Market for cars B C D through Z collapses

>>95142056
if car A is 40% of every car dealership's business, yes.

>>95140391
/co/ doesn't know what it wants

>>95142065
Don't start this up again. We don't need to go through and tell you how you don't even know what the last crash was or how it came to be, or the effects of the crash itself, again.

>>95142080
Yes it does.
It wants good comics.
But Marvel keeps handing it shit and saying "this is gold."

>>95142065
If nobody has been buying it all this time than it doesn't make a difference. There's no sudden drop off from 40% to 0. That 40% of comic buyers aren't gonna vanish off the face of this flat earth.

>>95142051
I do notice conservatives doing it, I'm talking about all of them. Like how are these PR departments so bad at keeping their employees from offending customers on twitter?

>>95142089
>Marvel forces you to read it's comics

>>95142121
it doesn't, which is why /co/ knows what it wants: Not Marvel

Is crashing the industry next step of Marvel's master plan?

>>95142132
>DC can't beat our market share if there is no market to share!

>>95142121
It does not force anybody to read.
They do force lcss to buy them to inflate sales numbers.

>>95140773
You underestimate the autism of cape only plebians. Just look up the current shitstorm around the Mosaic writer.

>>95140391
I learned that only shills tried to defend Punisher joining Hydra, and they didn't even do a good job of it.

>>95142158
remember that time they used The End as justification for why he would join Hydra

Politics has no place as a centerpiece in comics. Fuck pushing your ideology, just make good stories.

>>95142132
>DC only makes decent comics and flops in the theatres
>Marvel decides to crash the comic scene and leave DC with It's failing movie industry holding on to Wonder Women 7: The search for Equality

>>95142172
That just tells me they didn't get the point of The End.

>>95142147
LCS arent forced by marvel to buy their product. That's not How the free market works.

>>95142182
T. Newfag

>>95140391

Nothing we didn't already know: Marvel events tend to have a strong start, but end feebly.

Kind of like a booger.

>>95142206
Not him, but because of the diamon distro monopoly marvel has been strongarming shops to have to buy more of some things to get shit they actually want.

Some shops have put their foot down and abstained, but others fear shedding customers to competition.

They recently did a deal where in order to get some special books stores will have to double their standard orders of the regular books, which has my LCS super pissed off.

>>95142228
>They recently did a deal where in order to get some special books stores will have to double their standard orders of the regular books, which has my LCS super pissed off.
Haven't they been doing it for a while for variants?

>>95142280
nothing on this scale

>>95142280
Some stuff, but if I recall correctly they haven't outright demanded you order double before. I think this is like a new high for the demand, which isn't sitting well because people weren't moving books at less than those quantities anyway.

>>95140391
That it's one of the last nail on Marvel's coffin.
Personally, I feel the writing's on the wall for the comic book direct market - sales have been lousy for years, nobody gives a shit about reading capes when they can go see a cape movie instead (cape movies being arguably better than most cape comics, too), and the money is in merch now. If Marvel goes in any meaningful way, LCSs will be reeling even more than normal, Diamond will be reeling, and creators will be reeling too.

I could talk about this for a while, but suffice to say, comic books have little place in a world where production is expensive. It got its subsidies from the 30s-70s from cheap production from the economy boom, and now that those subsidies are starting to run out, nobody can afford to pay creators, consumers can't afford to to keep up with floppies, and comic books stores can't afford to keep the lights on. It's a doomed industry, and we're going to have to learn a thing or two about the post-Napster collapse of the music industry in order to make it through the years ahead. That, or just accept that comics will increasingly become a labor of love and nothing more - settle for breaking even and then maybe the medium (not the industry) will finally be able to revitalize itself into being something respectable again.

>Inb4 "Just Because the grand super event #139 Marvel shat out is bad, doen't mean all marvel comics are bad."

I'm sure a handful of them are good, but most of it is actually pretty terrible. And that's not necessarily the fault of any particular writer or artist, it's just the nature of the bloated beast that is modern continuity. There's no stories for story's sake anymore - every new thing has to be internally consistent with 1000's of other books made by 100's of other people, it has to reference events and characters in those 1000's of books, all while trying to do the impossible and inject some kind of novelty into every new issue.

>>95142310
America is a story for story's sake with little relation to continuity and it's awful

Al Ewing's works are absolutely riddled with continuity, and they're great

>>95142310
The blame for this is on the cape industry, but it also falls squarely on the diehard fans too. They're the ones that wanted continuity, they're the ones that kept artificially inflating sales every time universes rubbed shoulders in the early days, and now it's all just one big morass. Without being chained to canon, cape stories would have had the flexibility required to remain relevant.
But when MCU fans come walking into a comic book shop for the first time, what do they see? T
hor's a woman, the Hulk is dead, Captain America's been turned into a goldfish or some shit, and the only way to make sense of any of it is to buy $100 worth of trades, or hunt down backissues, and who wants to do that?
The landscape as it exists right now caters exclusively to those people who have no problem dropping 30 bucks at the LCS every wednesday, who have longboxes at home, and who can quote you a series and an issue for any given event like an evangelist can quote the bible.

I gave up on reading comics about 3 years ago because of it, and frankly, I cannot wait for these publishers to learn this the hard way.

>>95142280
It's worth noting that this is being done simultaneously for DOZENS of books, like 50 plus, for the legacy relaunch, so marvel was demanding a HUGE order increase knowing stores won't be able to move the product all so they can claim their sales went up 100% on the relaunch and claim they beat DC rebirth sales.

>>95142310
>And that's not necessarily the fault of any particular writer or artist, it's just the nature of the bloated beast that is modern continuity. There's no stories for story's sake anymore - every new thing has to be internally consistent with 1000's of other books made by 100's of other people, it has to reference events and characters in those 1000's of books, all while trying to do the impossible and inject some kind of novelty into every new issue.

Horseshit. The problem isn't continuity since they barely have continuity as it is for the last five or so years.

>>95142338
Coninuity, as long as it's handled by one or two writers can be perfectly fine. When a character has been written by 12 different people and everyone has a different idea how to make his run "special" or "unique", is fucking cancer.

>>95142310
>>95142341
>continuity is the problem
>not terrible writing and editing, overpriced books, and general quality control

>>95142365
It's the soap opera problem: The series is never allowed to end, so it twists and turns in on itself to try and keep things going long past the end of the story. Then you have what looks to me like desperate attempts to stay relevant by appealing to demographics or a game of one-upmanship over previous writers.

>>95142228
>others fear shedding customers to competition.
So it's a choice and they aren't forces to do shit.

>>95140925
Just so you know, it's more than 40%.

From the dedicated Marvel fans, some of them will go to their LCS and pick up a few DC titles along the way. DC sales drop with Marvel sales.

>>95140420
hack

>>95142556
Paper media has been dying for years anyway.

>>95140391
nothing that hasn't already been learned

i feel like changing the ending of SE & the resurgence of X-books are probably signs of disney stepping in and if legacy flops we'll definitely be seeing a shakeup to some degree in marvel's corporate infrastructure.

>>95142608

at 4 to 5 bucks for an add filled 20 page rag I understand why. When I can get the trade for 10 to 15 bucks when Im patient I see no reason to buy floppies

>>95142039
I work in local government(I work at a city library) and I'm so constrained in what I can post on public social media it isn't funny(I'm allowed to post privately of course).
I've basically given up on social media because of it, I can't imagine why Marvel and other companies let their people post like that.

>>95142946
Because they value their employees ability to express themselves

>>95140391
Nothing because there was nothing presented to be learned. It was empty.

>>95140391
What I learned from Secret Empire is
A) Spencer again is great writing ground heroes and villains, not so much write a goddamn event.
B) Don't insert your politics into escapist fantasy, because it doesn't work that way in a 75+ years publishing comic industry.
C) Kill Ike The Kike
D) Never actively provoke people with a "revelation" if you aren't prepared to handle the bantz.
E) Steve Cap best and (after all the shitfest with Sam and how he was handled) only Cap left, thank goodness.

>>95140391
That Nazis are the strongest and best ever and they only ever lose because weak losers ask god to cheat for them. That was the message of this book.

>>95140391
Let's not forget that /co/ was sucking Spencer's balls until the "Barfina" incident.

HydraCap was called "the best written Captain America" and Secret Empire was called "the best written event" by people here.

People here were saying that a liar and backstabber is totally worth of Mjolnir because worthiness is just a matter of self-esteem.

People here were saying that Frank Castle would totally work for mass-murderers if they give him the means to hunt small-time criminals.

All things considered, I learn not to trust /co/.

>>95143249
/co/ loves alt right fantasies where Nazis take over the world. That's all that is, wish fulfillment since it'll never happen irl

>>95140391
Beneath every white man lurks a fascist

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>95143343
>/co/ loves alt right fantasies where Nazis take over the world.
Nah, /co/ loves stories where the villains are presented as more human-like than your casual comics, you'd understand this if you weren't such a faggot, baiter-kun.

>>95142049
Same in Poland. Well, it's like one long shelf for comics and mangas. SOMETIMES it's separate small self for mangas. Sometimes half of the long shelf is issues of Thorgal.

>>95142182
Comcis are inherently political. I mean original 40's Captain America, Superman and Wonder Woman were political, X-Men were political many times, Green Arrow and Green Lantern was political, Watchmen was political, Ultimates was political, I could go on and on.
The problem in Secret Empire is that the ideology wasn't pushed well - it took backseat to the wanking over Steve to the point it flipped message on it's head.
Spencer wanted to be all "inspiring book to stood up against the nazis" and shit but kept masturbating and it turned into "Nazi strong, remove Juden!".

>>95140391
Honest question, do SE or CWII deserve the title of storytime of pain?

>>95143478
Thorgal is bretty based.
We also get Italian Boneli comics.

>>95142359
The Hulk solo series is a real victim of this.Just look at every run he's been in for the last ten years and see how convoluted and nonsensical it all is.

>>95142016
In Spain we have comic shops, less every year, but my shop has a floor for comics, a floor for warhammer and similar board games and a wall with manga, aside from figures and all kind of geeky merchandising.
The shop actually won an award for either the best comic shop of Europe or the world a few years back.

>>95140391
Captain America is stupid and Miles pandering was for nothing.

>>95140391
that marvel will never learn, therefore their days are numbered, and no one will miss them when they are gone

>>95140847
Marvel is 45% of the industry, dipshit.

>>95140391
Nick Spencer ever being good was a fluke.

>>95140847
Incorrect. If you blow up like half an industry, it is really, really bad for the health and stability of that industry.

>>95143532

No, cause they're both just too boring. Ultimatum is a garbage fire but it's the kind of fun garbage fire which will keep you warm after the sun goes dark and you reminice about humanity with the last of mankind and there's a smile on your face for it.

Civil War II and Secret Empire are just dull.

>>95143724
I really do like The Fix but Secret Empire was just trash.

>>95143736
Partially incorrect too,it depends on the industry.
In comics thing,yes.

>>95143532
Those two hit a level a bad that isn't far enough. It's bad, but not fun or interestingly bad. It's more boring bad. I would much rather read Illuminating comics storytime of CWII if I wanted to be entertained. Is there anything else like Illuminating, because I'm starting fun the beginning and it's pretty good so far.

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Honestly, I'll read fucking anything. I won't like it, but if it's got pretty art I can usually at least read it. I've read every Marvel event and partially enjoyed some of them, even those by Bendis. Secret Empire is obnoxious and uncomfortable to read.

>>95142182
Spencer has no concept of how allegory works.

Any politics should be a subtle undercurrent behind the story, not shoved into the reader's face.

>>95142228
I talked to the owner of my LCS. If you want the lenticular legacy covers you need to purchase 100 comics for 1. Can you imagine buying 100 of any comic for 1 shitty lenticular cover.

>>95140391
That Marvel needs to stop doing events. Especially ones that tie into synergy in the real world. Civil War 2 exits only becuase we had a Civil War movie. All these Inhumans and Imhuman-based stories are becuase Ike can't shut up about his new favorite toys being on the silver screen. And while IVe gotten used to having the big man in charge of our country, this whole event exists because everyone at Marvel is still throwing a collective temper tantrum.

>>95143249
Barfina incident?

>>95140391
Never ever trust Marvel to make anything good ever again. How to you make the two worst events in the history of your comics properties back to back like this.

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>>95143957
A new amazing Inhuman character, "Barf", that has the power to barf what he visualizes if he is feeling altruistic.

He barfed a part of the cosmic cube to the heroes when all seemed doomed.

>>95144067
Oh yeah, that guy. Also was SE really said to be the best event on /co/? Everyone was raging about it on the storytimes.

>>95144119
He was lying about best event but people did ride Hydra Cap's cock like they did the Maker, Rightclops and other "heroes become the antagonists" deals.

>>95144222
Are you implying rightclops wasn't right? Eh, it's because Hydracap still wasn't "fleshed out" to have a real opinion on him.

>>95140391
The buildup was really, really good. Everyone loved Hydracap. Then the event started and it seemed rushed as fuck despite it being one of the longer events that Marvel had.

>>95140391
That events shouldn't exist if they don't serve a narrative purpose or emerge organically.
Marvel basically forced this event to happen like the last few dozen events for no reason other than to have "an event".

Also I'd love a fun event again, not these dour miserable affairs, just give us an alien invasion where everyone on Earth chips in, good and bad to fight the enemy and then have a follow up where some bad guys are on the run having escaped in the chaos, some are just going to go bad as always, some might try to turn good because they understand the value in helping others after the invsaion and maybe have a few good guys turn darker because of what they had to do during the invasion(not evil but maybe less willing to help out because of guilt/ptsd and their friends have to snap them out of it) and then you can spin off a few mini-series from that.

Instead we get Heroes vs Heroes again.

>>95144279
>Are you implying rightclops wasn't right?
He hasn't been right since 1989 and you know it.

>>95144279
>Are you implying rightclops wasn't right?
I'm stating that Cyclops becoming Magneto is a retarded as Wolverine becoming Prof. X.

>>95144454
Except Xavier deserved to die and Cyclops never killed anyone after that.

>>95141465
I've been glancing at old numbers, and it is surprising just how "low" Vertigo numbers were for most of their life. Hellblazer in the mid #150s was selling around 12,000 units, which would make it a high Image book today. I wish we had the real numbers for Sandman.

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>>95140391
To NEVER buy or read anything new of (((Marvel))) specially Marvel Events.

Don't defend yourself on twitter when you know you won't be able to back it up.

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>>95142188
Gee I dunno company-war-kun, , awful lot of people watch DC's TV shows and play DC's games

>>95142041
Stormin' Norman ordered the Hood to deal with the Punisher. Long story short, Frank proved hard to kill, so the Hood tried to force his hand by resurrecting his family (along with Microchip and his son).

I learned this board just shits on everything and doesn't try to change its mind.

>>95140391
That Marvel needs competent villains again

I've learned that everyone that preaches love and subservience while my people are being slaughtered are really evil shapeshifting reptilian aliens
No, wait, that was Secret Invasion.

I've learned that Remender has a weird robot fetish and Brubaker has a NEVER ENDING HIS FUCKING STORYLINE fetish.
No, wait, that was Secret Avengers.

I've learned that nothing bad can ever come from using some weird goop you found in an alien laboratory as a costume.
No, wait, that was Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars.

I've learned that in mid 90s Marvel thought it could sell a shitty C-list team-up book
No, wait, that was Secret Defenders.

I've learned yet again that original Nick Fury was a stone-cold badass.
No, wait, that was Secret Warriors.

I've learned that you can make a decent movie out of a Mark Millar book.
No, wait, that was The Secret Service.

I've learned that Wolverine doesn't like being raped.
No, wait, that was Secret War, singular.

I've learned that milking a popular brand for all it's worth is most important for Marvel, even if at that point the series should've been called "Agents of SHIELD" or something
No, wait, that was Secret Avengers by Ales Kot.

I've learned that sequel events are shit like 90% of the time.
No, wait, that was Secret Wars II.

I've learned that Inhumans a shit.
No, wait, that was the new Secret Warriors.

I've learned that even with a McGuffin that lets you literally rewamp the whole universe Marvel will only use it to make more of the same shit.
No, wait, that was Secret Wars 2015.

I've learned that Nixon was, in fact, a crook.
No, wait, that was the original Secret Empire.

Oh, I've got it now. I've learned that Spencer is shit.
No, wait, that was his Secret Avengers.

>>95140391
Asking for anything from Marvel is asking for too much.

>>95140391
Nazis were good guys all along

>>95149566
this

>>95142310
>There's no stories for story's sake anymore - every new thing has to be internally consistent with 1000's of other books made by 100's of other people, it has to reference events and characters in those 1000's of books, all while trying to do the impossible and inject some kind of novelty into every new issue.
This seriously why cape comics are such a pain to read and why the story quality is so low.

I blame "muh continuity!!" fans for this.

>>95151293
I'm starting to think the people blaming continuity in this thread work for Marvel and need to keep using it as an excuse for their sloppy work. Marvel barely uses continuity as it is in the last five years. I used to believe in the idea that no continuity was a good thing more than a decade ago, but we've gotten so many increasingly subpar books over time that I think adherence to continuity isn't the problem here.

that marvel is still shit and I have been right to avoid

>>95151827
I'm not shell since I actually don't read Marvel or even care about them. Cape comics isn't just them.

I read DC and a lot of their books suffer from boring and dumb storylines because they are trying to keep with the big books that don't pay any attention to them. Not only that, but DC fans are the biggest "muh continuity!!" whiners and the reason why we keep having a recycled storylines.

>>95140961
>betray your own convictions and join a worldwide terrorist organization because sempai runs it now
>sempai still doesn't notice you

>>95153036

Yeah, your post is totally not suspect at all. Uh huh.

>>95143687
Isn't it more like 35% at this point.
Still a masdive chunk.

>>95142154
what? tell me please

>>95140786
How many times has he turned down that offer in the past?

>>95140391
Never get excited about anything ever

>>95155991
at least once recently, probably several times in the past

>>95140391

marble is shitty except for Manletman, he rocks
oh and those guardian dudes particular tree guy also rock