Why isn't Steve here when he helped save everyone?

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Because Marvel Comics is a dumpster fire. That's why.

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Steve isn't the REAL Captain America.

>>95127769

Because these are the new brave heroes. Same brave heroes that raise their arms in triumph when millions of people in Vegas are still dead. Why bother bending reality and bringing them back too?

>>95127801
Then why is Steve becoming Captain America and Sam going back to his Falcon title in Legacy? Why prop up Sam Wilson so much as the one true Cap then backtrack on it after the event is done? It makes no sense?

>>95127769
because he is a white patriot. Patriot is just another word for racist fascist fuck.

>>95127769
>>95127860
Now you understand that these things were probably last minute decisions

At least new Patriot is there.

Why is Sam standing triumphant when he's giving up on being Cap again?

Because Mcniven already drew the splash page before it was decided hydra cap would be beaten by regular cap,be glad sorrentino wasn't tasked to redraw it

>>95128066
I don't know Anon, why was the entire SE event basically just a big mantle passing to Sam even though he's going back to the Falcon persona?

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>>95127769
He didn't save nobody. He just beat up the big boss.

Ant-man/iron-man/bucky/captain falcon/magneto save everybody

>>95128103
Also the inhuman too.

>>95127860
spencer probably wanted to keep writing captain america after this

>>95128072
This

>>95128103
Why did Hydra Steve lose to Normal Steve? Hydra Steve has the same experience/skills normal Steve had, and he had the ironman suit and the shield (which he threw to the one guy who can also use the shield proficiently).

>>95128088
I don't think marvel legacy was planned and marvel panicked when people thought Steve wasn't coming back ergo while spencer was talking about how important his event was and how it would change things,Marvel published statements assuring people Cap would come back to normal before issue 0 even dropped

It looks to me that the original plan was for Sam to fight Steve,Steve to try to use the hammer and fail leading to him realising he was wrong and unworthy leading to surrender similar to what Steve did at the end of civil war

I imagine the fact that secret empire was so hated by normies the ending had to change to put Cap back in the heroic light but it was already mostly done so that's why Steve's fight with Stevil feels so tacked on

>>95128195
Because he made by a reality warper. He is 10 times stronger than the original cap by birth.

>>95128259
>>95128195
can someone explain why there are two Captain americans running around?

>>95128249
I just feel like SE accomplished nothing besides killing Rick ( let's be real Black widow and Vegas will be reborn give or take a few months ), Steve will go back to being Capt and the big Sam push was nothing. Are the people who joined Hydra gonna get the punishment they deserve like deadpool, Hank and Frank?

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>>95128195
>>iron man suit
>>doing anything to Cap

Steve's Murica powers trump armour everytime the writers get a patriot boner,plus they pretty matched till Steve got the hammer to KO hydra Steve

>>95128292
Kobik literally pulled an ideal Cap out of her ass, and then he beat HydraCap down

>>95128293
Frank will become War Machine at least briefly.

I still don't get why anyone thinks Frank would join Hydra. And if anyone uses "because he was a Captain America fanboy" then I'll know you only started reading Marvel comics in the 00's or 10's.

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>>95128293
Deadpool definately he murdered two close friends,is an enemy of shield,hated by his daughter for supporting Hydra

>>95128363
Probably because they allow him to kill more criminals.

>>95128292
It looks like Falcon was originally meant to BTFO Stevil. But with the outrage, it looks like they changed it so that "real" Steve is cosmic cubed back to BTFO Stevil who ironically even though much of the history was retconned via cube is still technically "real" Steve in existence.

>>95128310
It wasn't that evenly matched I mean Hydra Steve knew he was losing that's why he made a dash for the hammer. The fight made no sense, it was anime tier power of friendship wins the day shit.

>>95127769
Because they had already paid for this big splash before the rewrites were mandated and Marvel ain't gonna pay for shit twice

>>95128373
I'm still 50/50 on wether Coulson is alive or not. I mean, he shipped Perston's body to someone. Couldn't have been Adsit, Adsit is in Nova corps for some reason now.

>>95128072
>before it was decided hydra cap would be beaten by regular cap

I know this seems obvious, but is there an actual source or leak that confirms the theory? Or are we just assuming this is what happened?

>>95127769
Fuck, I loved Thor and all but why is he even in the splash page? He acted like a little bitch for the whole event.

>>95128397
It would better if Falcon beat captain hydra. But you know... sjw white man thing.

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>>95127769

Why is ANYONE surprisoed when Secret Empire was a dumpsterfire trainwreck from start to finish?

>>95128435
Mostly assumption,the fact all the past Steve stuff was done by an uncredited artist in solicits till issue #2,the dramatic shift from conflicted hydra cap to literally calling himself Supreme leader crazy Steve in the tie ins,the extra issue + delays after marvel announced everything would go back to normal after the event at least imply there was some changes happening behind the scenes

>>95128435
So far we're assuming that's what happened. But it's pretty obvious considering Steve isn't in that splash page and the final panel when they're talking about a Captain America action figure it's Falcon, and how Sam will go back to being Falcon.

>>95128396
Why would that even matter?

>>95128548
>More hyrdras expose in the open.
>More guys to take out.

>>95128520
I'm surprised it sold quite a bit of copies.

>>95128524

God I wish Spencer would stop throwing bullshit on twitter and just admit to this.

>>95128397
>>95128336

what about spiderman killing steve that was foreshadowed? It would make sense while steve is hydra. They forgot it?

>>95128661
Why admit when he can just blame DC?

>>95128737

Or evil hetero white men that are the comic book readers. They are always guilty of everything when Spencer is asked.

>>95128396
When given the chance to shoot Bin Laden on behalf of criminal drug runners in the CIA, he shot the drug runners.

>>95128524
Either spenser had gone completely bonkers at the last second, or your theory is true. I think both are plausible.

>>95128595
WEAK

>>95128701
>what about spiderman killing steve
Uhh...

>>95128701
Turns out Ulysses visions aren't accurate although because of that vision thing Miles was able to escape a prison van.

>>95128600
Because of shock value.
It was still political opinions about "omg, Nazis are now ruing US" crap.

>>95128103
I didn't read the tie ins, what did Magneto do?

>>95128701
Wasp told him that if he kills him, he won't be any better than him somehow.

>>95128661
Why would he publicly blame the company that signs his checks? At the end of the day if he truly had any artistic integrity he would actually stand by what he wanted to say with his shitty story and call marvel out on their shit

>>95127769
he left with the X-Men.

>>95128957
Magneto showed up in issue 9 and in one page single handedly destroyed all of Hydra's crap spaceships and shit

>>95129083
>Magneto showed up in issue 9 and in one page single handedly destroyed all of Hydra's crap spaceships and shit
Oh, yeah, that.

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>>95128600
It sold, but also sold like shit compared to other Marvel Events.

>>95128310
I love how all these years of Steve and Tony relationship ended with them fighting to death while world was just about to blow up

>>95129316
It was Superior Iron Man made evil by the Axis, it's not real development.

>>95129316
I'm surprised no one even bothered to change that and it got published. Some day someone will point out how fucked Marvel's comics were in the 10's storywise.

>>95128310
Isn't the Endo-sym supposed to besemi-sentient liquid metal and not an actual mechanical armor?

Do Marvel writers even TRY to take notes from each other?

>>95127769
Because he's a FUCKING WHITE MALE.

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>>95129380
yes

>>95129442
I miss superior iron man, he was the best superior.

>>95128259
>>95128336
Wait, wait. I know I'm late but.
Does that mean that the Steve we're going to follow now is a fake clone with Steve's memories?
What's going to happen to the real Steve (hydra cap)? They will never acknowledge he's the real one that saved the world in the past so many times... right?
This is as fucked up as the real Peter Parker being dead after the events of Superior SM.

>>95129380
Hickman is notorious for ignoring/not-knowing continuity. He does this all the time. He even forgot when a character had kids.

>>95127769
He's fucking riri
what the fuck did little firebomb thrower do this event?

I still can't believe the gall of Spencer to invoke that infinity gauntlet scene. To compare that with his bullshit asspull of a story should be some kind of crime.

In the one case you have a mortal standing up to and unbridled god of death and the other you have an asshole getting tricked by another asshole

>>95130380
>another asshole

That asshole got the power of a god.

>>95129180
Holy shit what caused Secret Wars to get those numbers on the first issue

>>95128701
Better they ignored it

>>95130433
I want to say that was when they were introducing lootcrates and they added those numbers as well.

>>95127860
Because that was the original ending. Steve was never supposed to come back and Sam was going to continue being Cap America. After the backlash, they had to adjust plans but they didn't want to rewrite the ending of Secret Empire completely.

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>>95130433
It was hyped as THE END,every marvel comic ended with a teaser for the final battle at issue 1,even games like future fight used it to prop up a gaming event,everyone expected a major reboot,a change or something it was the equivalent of a major happening in comic form,then the series got delayed the story dragged on and ultimately most of the universe went back to normal,I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of why marvel isn't a successful with events anymore,if marvels equivalent of a DC crisis didn't really make a difference why would another civil war or evil Steve matter,

>>95127769
Why do comic events today feel so empty? This and Civil War 2 felt so forgettable?

>>95130770
These last two marvel events had the problem of characters telling people "look how much is happening and changing!" but the books themselves not really showing that. Barely any book showed what occupied Hydra-US life was like, and the ones that did (like the X-line) contradicted what was happening in the main book sometimes.

>>95130489
I fully believe this, but are there proofs anywhere, like a leak or something?

>>95130579
It's sad. Secret Wars allowed to perfect opportunity for Marvel's writers to do and try new ideas. We could have led to so much interesting status quos and ideas. And they all squandered it all. What did we get? Peter Parker CEO? Kamala on the Avengers (even though her street level persona is what made her interesting)?? Bendis Iron Man? Inhuman's gassing Mutants to death?? Was this all worth it?

>>95130770
I feel the ending of this event so weak and cheap that it isn't even funny nor wanting to know how the world will be after all this

>>95130579
I was hyped for shadoeline characters and classic new universe characters to show up, for nothing because the shadowline guys showed up in two pages to job to the squadron sinister.

>>95130579
I don't think i ever read a good marvel comic that used ross for the cover art

>>95127769
Spencer hates his penis

>>95127796
Sauce?

>>95127769
Why are Peter and Whor at the center when they did almost nothing?

>>95133137
Most of the people present in that picture didn't do much to contribute to anything important in the end. The people who actually stopped Hydra Cap was Sam, Scott, Bucky and Memory!Steve, and even then all Sam did was be a distraction for Scott and Bucky to go do the actual work.

The only one in that group shot that deserves to be there is Scott, who is also the same guy who betrayed the team while they were collecting Cosmic Cube fragments because he was being blackmailed.

I mean, why is Thor even there? He did more harm than good the whole event by being Hydra Cap's lapdog.

>>95133286
Oh, and Kobik too, but I keep forgetting to count her as an actual character, especially when all she did was roll back the reality change and create a clone of the regular Steve Rogers, but didn't bother fixing any of Hydra's destruction.

>>95130830
>delays
>added pages increasing price
>extra issue
>disney pushing for changes behind the scenes

Nothing concrete since Marvel is really secretive about their shit but it's obvious. They're just like Skinner during that aurora borealis scene in the Simpsons but nobody is fooled by it.

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>>95133351
I've been out of the loop but
>delays
>added pages increasing price
>extra issue
Why has Marvel made this the standard since Secret Wars?

>>95127769
It is part of Secret Empire's critique of the modern Marvel event.
Those shown in the "group photo" are based not on plot, but on characters being pushed.

The book actually has lots of satire of them, but it was lost thanks to the political statements and nature of also being an event. Other examples are enforcing event logic like introducing new characters solely to solve the plot, creation of duplicates/ideals instead of solving the actual problem, and hazy sideswitch logic/characters not caring when their friends are being altered.

Thought about this a lot when driving today. Spencer is both 2deep4u and an idiot at the same time.

>>95129316
Don't they always do that? Longest on-off marriage in Marvel.

>>95128701
its actually explained that cap had a cosmic cube fragment on him when he fought spiderman thus preventing his death

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>>95129422

>>95127769
>>95127769
disgusting Anti white/racemixing jew propaganda