We will know truth

Neat. I wonder what else has DC planned for NYCC

>>95123116
Okay seriously can someone go and burn DC the fuck down? There's a wildfire right now can they direct it to hit DC and hell have it hit WB too just to be sure

>>95123116
>Batman gets redpilled by Rorschach's journal
do it Johns

>>95123183
I never understood this reactions towards the book. Why is Watchmen treated with such regards that not even DC (the company that made the book and basically owns it) can do anything with it?

>>95123198
I wonder about this too. Why some people are so bitter about this?

>>95123237
People treat it like the Quran.

>>95123198
Because it is literally the greatest comic in the history of the medium.
It's the Godfather Part 2 of comics but even more valuable as there hasn't been half as many great comics as their has been great movies.

>>95123116
At first I thought it was just gonna be Superman meets Manhattan but it's clear now that it's more than that.

>>95123183
Fuck off Outhousers

>>95123198
>>95123237
muh sacred cow

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>>95123247
>Because it is literally the greatest comic in the history of the medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL6cJPz3Nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnYdteja7Y0

>>95123198
It is peak artists expression of this genre. Calling it a genrefiction is actually disingenuous to the piece and to Moore.

>>95123183
>wah wah my precious watchmen wah
Go home alan moore.

>>95123183
>NOT MUH

lol

>>95123198
probably because Watchmen is supposed to be self contained, its a world without alternate universe copouts,character revivals or ultimately a perfect resolution and Doomsday clock is going wel against that
that and DC screwed Moore out of the rights

>>95123247
It's not even the best Moore comic, casual

Never understood why people get so salty over stuff like watchmen getting expanded on in other properties when A) the original run still exists and dc is never taking it out of print so you can always read it again and B) the die hard fans who "not muh" over everything have already consigned themselves to only reading the original because future works won't be by the creator who made the original so they shouldn't care about how future iterations turn out.
Get over it tards, you still have your precious original watchmen to glue the pages together over.

>>95123237
Because it is a stand alone piece of fiction.
It has nothing to do with the quality or sacredness of the book it is because it is a stupid idea.
It would be like putting Frodo,C3PO, And Roland in the DC universe because...reasons

>>95123591
>Because it is a stand alone piece of fiction.
It still is.

>>95123591
and so they still have their stand alone book and can consider doomsday clock non canon and put their fingers in their ears.

>>95123591
But until you read it you don't even know what those reasons are yet.

>>95123183

I think DC is doing the only thing that is left to do with superheroes, because every story has been told. That last thing is prosecuting hypertextuality to the full extent of the law. Have two Supermen from two different continuities collide and have people deal with it. You know Watchmen? Well, now they get to know Batman! It's a wild clusterfuck and I love it.

It feels a bit like early DC where they just would put popular heroes from their lineup in books together. I mean, isn't that how superheroes as a genre evolved to what it is? Just put all the shit you got in your lineup in books together, even if that shit shouldn't fit tonally (like Batman and Superman).

>>95123591
Marvel had Conan on super-ancient Earth-616 and Elric in the Multiverse years ago because they owned the comic rights. Same here.

>>95123574

People just want something to rage over, because it's nice to worry about trivial shit more than you should when you have much non-trivial life turds to worry about.

>>95123662
Also Godzilla on present-day 616

>>95123574
>the original run still exists and dc is never taking it out of print so you can always read it again
That's my stance but Watchmen and its subsequent affairs very much stand for the disingenuous practices of capitalism.

>>95123697

But capitalism is what made the superhero genre possible. It would literally not exist if it wasn't for ruthless capitalistic practices, not from a sales standpoint and not from a content standpoint.

I'm not saying that capitalism and its focus on revenue is a good thing, but in this case the genre would not have been possible without it. It would just have died out after the first few vigilante dailies, there would have been no reason at all to make superhero universes etc..

Which doesn't say that Watchmen is "wrong", and while putting Watchmen in other DC properties is very much motivated by profit, this is the same kind of process that made Watchmen itself possible. It's greed mixed with creativity.

>>95123574
Because Watchmen is treated as some kind of sacred cow by people who really need to read more comics, and ideally not capeshit. Exploring European, Japanese, etc content uncovers things that absolutely put Watchmen to shame in terms of craft, character development, storytelling and ideas.

I also have to suspect people so utterly awestruck by Watchmen must be fairly young. All the references to historical events, literature, music, etc seemed like genius to my sixteen-year-old self but now a decade later it all seems quite trite. Moore doesn't have anything to say about these things, he offers no deep insight or analysis. They're simply peppered into the story to signal that the author assumes he's more literate than the majority of his readership.

Honestly, the older I get the less I like Watchmen. I don't think it's even Moore's best work, let alone the best comic ever created.

>>95123790
what would you consider his best work?

>>95123790

I think From Hell is his best work, where he really shines from a narrative perspective. From Hell has a lot of references, but certainly doesn't need them. I don't think he puts them in there because of vanity, but because he likes putting in stuff he likes or finds interesting. He's no grand master of philosopher, but sort of a fan boy for all things curious historical or literary events and wants to put them in his work, so that they appear in a new distorted light. Gaiman is like that too, though instead of Lovecraftian he's more Shakespearean and "poetic".

You just gotta take them for what they are: fanboys of culture with a knack for storytelling.

>>95123790
by comparison Hiriko Arahki does a better job at snipping in references to pop culture and historical periods. His jojo stories are a good example not counting how every character and their psychic ghost pokemon are named after rock songs. I'm talking more about how he'll mention a specific historical event that happened during a jojo part and then shuts up and gets on with the story. Doesn't milk it, just writes plot.

>>95123760
My statement was more of an observation with some level of critique. I know and understand the reality and when it comes to Watchmen, I really don't give a fuck because I can appreciate it just as much after the corporation is done vandalizing it. People should still call shit out though. And I'm not passing my remark because its Watchmen like a lot of people would, rather because I hate these practices and I would still call them out. One has to wonder and wonder we all should, that how much of this Doomsday Clock is because of creative liberty under capitalism and how much of it is capitalism driving the creative liberty and creatives and when you see DC's track record of doing sequels and prequels to these evergreen stories this decade, you have to at least sneer at it.

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Is this the endgame of the DCEU?

>>95123116
I understand now. Watchmen took place in the rebirth universe past.

>>95123790
>exploring European, Japanese content
Pleb taste

>>95123790
>Exploring European, Japanese, etc content uncovers things that absolutely put Watchmen to shame in terms of craft, character development, storytelling and ideas.
Like what? Not arguing, just looking to branch out

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>>95123790
>Exploring European, Japanese, etc content uncovers things that absolutely put Watchmen to shame in terms of craft, character development, storytelling and ideas.

Watchmen was already ruined by the shitty movie and side-stories.
At least we'll get something fun out of this dumpster fire.

>>95123814
I'm going to agree with >>95123877, I think. I was thoroughly engaged by From Hell when I read it a few years ago. The scratchy period-appropriate art and apparently huge volume of research really shine through in that one. Moore's propensity to regurgitate obscure facts with little slant, bias or analysis actually serves the purpose of the book rather than harming it.

I also think Tom Strong and Top Ten - most of the ABC stuff, really - is very underrated. Granted it doesn't have the cerebral cache of Watchmen but in some ways that's why I like it more. It's unpretentious, just solid storytelling and playing with classic pulp/comicbook archetypes.

I also think for something he considers his worst work, taken in isolation Killing Joke is a pretty excellent piece of storytelling and dissection of character psychology for both Batman and Joker.

>>95123914
IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING JOJO'S REFERENCE?!

I like Araki, but I think his biggest contribution to the medium is having fights that play out more like a chess game than a bar brawl, which is pretty unusual for shonen. I wouldn't consider his work "best in field" or anything like that.

>>95123963

Are all those clock pieces flying into Supermans crotch?

>>95123877
From Hell is my favorite Moore work as well.

Watchmen is good, but there's no reason to act like it's untouchable.

>>95124101
>Doomsday has arrived

>>95124040
>Johns
>fun

>>95123914
>Jojo
Fucking Jojo! Only on /co/ will you see fags who think Shonen thrash like Jojo is some higher writing. No wonder you guys are excited for Doomsday clock.

>>95124007
Read Tatsumi's Good-bye and Tezuka's Message to Adolf.

>>95124162
If you don't think Steel Ball Run is the hypest shit then stay the fuck outta my face.

>>95123678
Weren't the Transformers there at some point too?

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>>95124184

>>95123116
You know what? I don't even give a fuck at this point. Never liked Watchmen, and the heroes of the DCU potentially revealing the Pyrrhic tone of its resolution sounds like the sweetest chocolate brownie I've never had.

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>/co/mblr shits on Moore for years but gets upset because Watchmen is sacred now and can't be intermixed with current DC
>mfw these are the same queers crying because capcom and star wars won't cross over with marvel

This board is such a joke it's sick

>>95123697

>a publisher making books is disingenuous

Ok pal

Cool, he is going to bring Ozy to jail for his crimes, oh wait, he doesn't exist, better bring Grail back.

>>95123183
Outhousers on suicide watch.

>>95124007
I'll give you five from each that I think would be good starters.

Japan:
>Domu
>2001 Nights
>No Guns Life
>Vagabond
>Crying Freeman

Europe:
>Bad Company
>The Incal (I'm recommending this above things like The Deviation and The Airtight Garage because it's still in print, good luck finding copies of Moebius' other work for sensible prices)
>Sharaz-De
>Ranxerox
>Nikopol Trilogy

This book encapsulates Johns' entire career.

>>95124169
Weak ending for a retread of fanservice
Wasted characters who die in the lamest Boring first quarter

>>95124307
>The Incal (I'm recommending this above things like The Deviation and The Airtight Garage because it's still in print, good luck finding copies of Moebius' other work for sensible prices)

Is it like that in the US? I'm in Germany and over here you can get e.g. the Airtight Garage for 10 euros in some comic book stores. There are old Moebius editions everywhere. Well, not everywhere, but it's not hard to find them for a reasonable price.

>all these "m-muh sacred cow" autists
Just end yourselves now, cucks. This is going to be fucking epic.

>>95123591
>It would be like putting Frodo,C3PO, And Roland in the DC universe because...reasons
>implying I don't want to read that

>>95123591
>Because it is a stand alone piece of fiction
>>95123534
>Watchmen is supposed to be self contained

How do people say this without a straight face about the guy who wrote League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

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>>95123183

>>95124492
It's okay when Alan does it, but don't you ever touch his work.

I don't see how this event magically tarnishes the image of the original in any way. If people are really up in arms, you're a bit late, the movie kind of did that already

>>95124421
English language editions are like gold dust. Scuttlebut is it's because Moebius' second wife/widow is a huge cunt who wants vast sums of money for the rights to his work, and won't negotiate at all with English-language publishers because she doesn't speak English and worries she might leave money on the table.

An English copy of Airtight Garage is at least a £100 investment here in the UK.

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>>95123116
Wait a min....is the tone gonna be like watchmen? Is there gonna be pirate comics? Is silk now in her late middle ages?

Did Dr.M blew up his earth many times creating DC characters there? The Mars and debris suggest so.

>>95124492
>writer takes Jekyll and Hyde for new book
GENIUS!!!
>DC takes Watchmen characters for new book
BLASPHEMY!!!

>>95124511
...you being serious right now? I honestly can't tell anymore.

>>95124516
The movie was a shitty adaptation, but this is sort of a continuation. Honestly I don't care. I like watchman so I will pretend this doesn't exist.

>>95124573
Watchmen*

>>95124573
Right? Watchmen is still very self contained, and worst case scenario you treat this as non canon fanfic or whatever.

>>95124573
It's not, though.

This is just "wouldn't it be cool if we put Watchmen characters in the DC verse?" ... it's the exact same as what Moore did for LoEG. I dare you to find a difference.

>>95124007
Don't ask /co/ for Euro comics recs. Most of it will be shitty Sci fi. Just have a look at any /euro/ thread to know how shitty /co/'s taste is.

>>95124561
I'm being facetious.
Also remember that Moore wrote a "What if Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, and the Wizard of Oz were just allegories for women going through puberty and all these girls had sex with a bunch of guys and each other?"

>>95124614
>Also remember that Moore wrote Lost Girls
...I'd rather not

>>95124492
It's sort of how Neil Gaiman doesnt want dc using sandman material despite the fact that it immediately includes the justice league and john constantine. Basically Moore and Gaiman are just petty hypocrites.

>>95124521
I don't know why people are so adverse to Diana wearing pants
I think it was hot as cakes and makes her more attractive, not to mention avoiding the old bikini armor argument

>>95124646
He does allow it, he just wants approval. Weisman and Bates getting Death wrong really miffed him.

>>95123116
Batman reading Rorschach's journal with a mug of coffee is fucking hilarious.

>"Wait a second, this isn't Harry Potter"

>>95124611
Is it really just that? I tough it was a direct continuation from watchmen's end. I don't see what's the fuss about then.

>>95124611
Because LOEG was Moore using characters that would be guaranteed to sell.

>>95124696
It is, but LoEG also takes place after all their respective characters' books.

>>95123534
The Watchmen characters are just Donut Steels of the Charlton characters because DC didn't want Moore to go batshit crazy with a property they had just bought.

>>95124688
What's funny to me is the idea of Bruce reading it and thinkning "Man, this guy sounds nuts"

>>95124647
She never wore pants costume wise historically. Plus amazons didn't wear pants either.

>>95123790
>the author assumes he's more literate than the majority of his readership.

The irony is palpable. At least Moore's presumption is in a published work instead of a bathroom stall on the internet. But you sound like a super smart 26 year old, props.

>>95124611
You'd be retarded to think that they're the same thing.

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>>95124742
Of course decades later, it's okay if Morrison does it.

>>95124711
>Because LOEG was Moore using characters that would be guaranteed to sell.
...so it's EXACTLY the same thing, then?

>>95124766
Ok then, explain why they're different. I'll wait.

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>>95124688

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>>95124812

>>95124789
Not him but if you don't see a difference in the quality and imagination of Geoff Johns and Alan Moore then you're being deliberately obtuse. But then again that's this whole thread.

>>95124764
Condescending and with no actual substance. More irony in this reply's resemblance to a Moore comic, honestly.

>>95124723
But I don' think more intent to pass LoEG as an official continuation to all the characters he borrowed unlike this.

>>95124775
>property they had just bought
Because decades later they hadn't just bought it.

>>95124824
>moving goalposts this much

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Fucking disgusting.

>>95124743
>Bruce turns out to be Rorschach, the DC universe was created by Manhattan to give him a happy ending of sorts

>Talented writer makes something
>Hack grabs it a few decades later and craps all over it
>There are people in this thread autistic enough to not understand why people may have a problem with this

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>>95124822

>>95124831
Well, nothing can be "official" with public domain characters whose authors are long dead. It's not like DC is going to start reprinting Watchmen trades with added material, it still stands as a complete work.

>>95124828
So you don't see a difference then? You equate Darkseid War with From Hell?

>>95124844
>that writer's biggest works involve using other people's characters
You left that part out

>>95124831
Moore*

>>95124855
Meant for>>95124839

>>95123116
Hey,i dont read modern comics,but i know the basic stuff about the characters,and i have read watchmen.
Im actually excited by this. Its probably gonna be shit,but the premise is interesting,and they can go places with it.
What i dont understand is how batman finds the diary of a person who i thought lived in a separate universe. I can understand manhattan since hes god but not rorscroach. Anyone care to explain that?

>>95124789
Doomsday clock is just bait for luring in casuals and for more sales, following the "shocking" reveal from DC rebirth. It's more similar to Marvel's latest Hydra cap events than LOEG.

>>95124824
Johnsfags are mentally retarded. Most of them come from plebbit or Cbrforums. There's no arguing with them.

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Have thery ressurected Rorschach already or is ti yet to happen?

>>95124881
The Comedian's button ended up in the Batcave when Wally showed up out of the Speed Force. I'd assume it'd have something to do with that.

>>95123198

Because Watchmen deconstructed and mocked the comics of the day and the trends they were moving towards.

By linking it to main continuity DC and just making it yet another universe, it completely defeats one of the main points of Watchmen, which is taking the piss out of this sort of book.

>>95124855
>>95124870
No, I don't think they're the same in terms of quality, but the concept is exactly the same.

>>95124828
Shitting on people for hating an objectively terrible cash grab from a company who was been rudderless for a decade so you can feel superior is the height of substance. You're really winning hearts and minds with your superior intellect, thank God you deigned to shout down from your hipster nest that people need to read more foreign language comics.

>>95124516
It doesn't tarnish the original, but it exposes the creative bankruptcy of the big two(once again).
It's like defending Secret wars or civil war 2 because it doesn't tarnish anything.

>>95124844
>writer known for using and shitting on other people's characters gets his characters used in a respected manner by one of cape comics' best writers
>writer gets mad
>autists defend the crotchety old man because "m-muh sacred cow"
wew

>>95124946
Except it doesn't, because one's called Watchmen, and the other's called Doomsday Clock. They're separate stories, you don't HAVE to acknowledge the existence of one to benefit or hinder the other.

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>>95124971

>you don't HAVE to acknowledge the existence of the original book

>the entire impetus of this whole arc is a result of the original book

>>95124993
And they'll indefinitely cover any necassary ground in Doomsday Clock so people aren't confused as fuck.

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>>95123116
>Batman meets Rorschach
>Not the Question meets Rorschach
I fucking hate Batman.

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Do you guys love Alan Moore's masterpiece, "What if superhero comics had rape and gore?" I sure do!

>>95124955
Classic characters from literature teaming up is a far cry from exactly the same as a company lazily playing recognizable property battle royale.

>>95125090
>characters teaming up is different than characters teaming up
k

>>95124007
Ignore the other fags, read Gekiga, start with Yoshihiro Tatsumi. Japan and Euroshit have its own language when it comes to graphic fiction and nothing is some high art, most of mainstream shit is nothing more than genrefiction faggotry and when you consider Watchmen was/is so close to being considered genuine literature, you would realize how shallow the people and their recommendations are. Not saying all of mainstream Manga/Euroshit is garbage but almost all the recommendation here will be garbage.

>>95125096
>public domain characters teaming up is same as characters of privatized intellectual property teaming up
If it's same, I should be able to publish my works on Watchmen, right?

>>95125096
>Johns is Moore's conceptual equal
k

>>95125096
Don't even bother. The Moore-purists are just autists that are physically incapable of having fun. Trying to argue with them is just a waste of time. We should be discussing and speculating the comic itself and what we hope to see.

I'd love to see a Batman vs. Rorschach fight. They've always been my favorite characters and I think it'll be a really interesting match up. Batman may be more skilled in a fight but Rorschach is unpredictable, like a more physically capable Joker.

I can't wait for this. Johns is my hero for finally making this happen.

>>95125142
Kind of irrelevant when you're talking about the company who owns said IP, so I'm not sure what your point is.

>>95125088
>Have the wish I wish tonight
geez that's as bad as "get a feeling so complicated" tier engrish

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>>95125159

>>95125152
Well Johns has more skills as a writer than just "take wholesome comic and make it edgy." There's a reason Moore is washed up and relegated to working on Crossed and shitty Lovecraft adaptations, while Johns just keeps rising in the industry and is now advising the DCEU films. Moore had a good gimmick 30 years ago but has done nothing interesting since driving that gimmick into the ground while Johns keeps innovating and striving to new heights.

>>95125152
>I literally don't know how to read

>>95124956
>M.. muh Watchmen: the post

>>95125196
>being this retarded
Moore may be washed up now, but he was hardly a one trick pony

>>95123247
It's not that it's so great , but that the story is self contained and complete on it's own. and a lot of people feel like to do anything else with it is to change it.

>>95125103
This tbqfh. Its laughable when a Euroboo claims superiority when they consider shit like Incal as a literary masterpiece.
Not to mention that American publishers like D&Q and Fanta consistently BTFO Eurothrash.

>>95125222
Call me when DC stops publishing Moore's Watchmen.

Until then, anyone complaining that a comic from 30 years later changes the original is as autistic as it gets.

>>95124646
I think Gaiman actually has the best method for others using his characters, desu. He says in the preface to the recoloured Sandman trade that the JL crossovers in the series may have actually hurt the series instead of helping it, while I assume he thinks Constantine fits in there rather naturally, given that he had John and Dream both appear in Books of Magic.

He allows others to use the story basically as he deems fit, which so far has been, what, the Lex Luthor one-shot that was neat as fuck and Batmetal, which I don't understand at all but whatever.

>>95125178
I didn't see the whole thread but one of Moore's argument against using Watchmen characters is that when he's using pre existing characters, they are in public domain.

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>>95124843
>becoming Batman
>happy ending

>>95125226
My man.

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>>95125103
>Watchmen was/is so close to being considered genuine literature

>>95125199
Different concepts, different levels of thought put into them, different executions. Please explain how that makes them exactly the same.

>>95124613
>shitting on l'Incal

Whatever, man.

>>95125288
I mean, it would be for Rorschach.

>Gets to spend time with a loving family
>Gets legitimate motivation for his autistic crusade against street level crime
>Gets enough money to live off in absolute luxury for several lifetimes, enabling his one-man war against crime
>Full support of local law enforcement
>All the other heroes like and respect him instead of treating him like a stinky ginger schizophrenic

>>95125272
>it's ok when I do it

>>95125350
He loses his right wing ideology though.

>>95125334
I don't hate it; It's actually quite the opposite. but I wouldn't consider it as exceptional or GOAT like a lot of people do.

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>>95125272
But they're not whenever he's used company-owned characters. Marvelman was created by Mick Anglo, but Moore sure put it through the meat and rape grinder.

>>95125328
People are bitching about Watchmen being used at all.

The concept is just that characters from one book show up in another book.

>/co/mblr spends years shitting on Moore because they're triggered by all the rape
>start losing their shit when Based Johns decides to homage the comic they hate
Pathetic. This is why none of the other boards takes you seriously. I bet Doomsday Clock is going to get adapted into a movie and blow the fuck out of your precious MCUck films.

>>95123237
Alan Moore is creating a hive mind, with himself as king.

>>95125318
>academia sucks its dick
>mainstream appeal
>being taught at universities
Keep living in denial though, dumb jojoposter.

>>95123591
>Still no Hobbit 4 movie where Bilbo teams up with R2D2, Spider-Man and James Bond

>>95125398
>Based Johns
Stopped reading right there.

>>95125405
Y'know they teach Marx and Hunger Games at universities too?

>>95125423
>the man who single-handedly saved DC
>not Based
Like I said, pathetic.

>>95125430
Maxism is an ideology and Hunger Games isn't academia approved, what's your point?

>>95125453
> academia approved
wtf does that even mean?

>>95125388
In the laziest most desperate way imaginable.

>>95125405
>>95125430
Bendis is a college professor too.

Bendis is literally on an equal field as Moore if this is your metric.

>>95125560
If enough English professors meme that something has literary merit, it's academia approved.

>>95125586
Is there any actual list of what's academia approved, or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

I already know it's the latter

>>95125560
You must have been a third worlder or studied at shitty community college if you have no familiarity with academics, assuming you aren't an underage, which is quite probable.
>>95125585
What? How does that comparison even make sense? I'm not judging Watchmen based on if Moore's a professor.

>>95125660
>academics
You're just using that as a buzzword.

You said that Watchmen has merit because it's taught in universities. There are entire classes built around Harry Potter at universities too. So that means they're on an equal playing field, right?

>>95125159
Rorschach is dead

>>95125684
No I said the merits of Watchmen are recognized on multiple levels, academic studies is one of them and probably the most important. Ever wonder why genre fiction of early to mid 20th century is considered literature now and it's on syllabus of some university?

>>95125785
I still fail to see your point. Harry Potter is far newer than Watchmen and is already being taught all over the place.

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>>95125772
Not him, but you know damn well Rorschach is going to come back at some point. Hell I wouldnt be surprised if he became a staple of the DC universe after this entire thing. Why? Because Rorschach sells

>>95125820
>Rorschach sells
Is there actually any evidence of this?

I feel like the people who love Rorschach are mostly the hot topic kids who don't read comics and wear deadpool t shirts.

>>95125820
Johns already said he's not treating it as Watchmen vs Justice League. His statement on "A Battle Between Two Of Their Respective World's Smartest" will obviously be Jor-El and Lex considering the former has already been confirmed to be Mr Oz. Remember the fucks that kept insisting Gotham Guy and Girl were Nightowl and Silk Spectre? You're one of those retards.

>>95125805
>A C A D E M I A A P P R O V E D
You're not reading, maybe that's why you're excited by tripe like this.

>>95123184
>Don't you see Clark?
>It's the Jews.
>It's always been the Jews.

>>95125850
Im mostly saying this because casuals adored him from the movie
>>95125856
I never said it would be Rorschach vs The Justice League or anything like that, only that we would see him brought back. And no, I never thought either of those Gotham fags were from Watchmen either

>>95125850
>deadpool t shirts.
You misspelled belt buckles, anon.

>>95125869
>B U Z Z W O R D S
Harry Potter, by your own definition, is academia approved.

>>95123198
Imagine if they started having Batman guest star in random kid's cartoons.

OKAY BAD EXAMPLE.

Imagine if they did that, but, like NOW, when we know better.

>>95125898
You're right, it's the Joker on their t-shirt.

How could I fuck that up?

>>95125932
There you go. Now that big brain of yours is firing at full throttle.

>>95123591
>It would be like putting Frodo,C3PO, And Roland in the DC universe because...reasons
It isn't anything like that. And you fucking know it. Otherwise you're simply pandering memes and bullshit you read in blogs and their comments sections.

>>95125805
And academia considers stuff like Harry Potter and Hunger Games as YA trash, not literature.

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>>95124007
Only available in Czech, German and probably also French and Polish.

While not strictly superior to Watchmen, it does some things better.

>>95125987
>[citation needed]
Do you just call yourself academia in the third person or something?

>>95125912
No it isn't faggot. It's approved by fucking grammar school broads who create lesson plans while sipping boxed wine and watching FRIENDS for the hundredth time.

I think Watchmen is great, maybe not worth an entire course (though if a reader is new to comics it may), but to compare collegiate study to popcorn-reading story time with thirty 5th graders is incredibly disingenuous.

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>>95124843

Nah, Jason bro.

>>95124007
>Blast
>Ordinary victories
>West Coast blues
>Irmina
>Goddamn this war

>>95125987
>>95126049
If I may put my 2 cents in, Harry Potter is literature, just trash literature. Whats worse is the classes full of Potterfags (mostly women) who get all up in arms once you tell them how fucked the Harry Potter universe really is

>>95124171
Yep. Spider-Man guess starred in the 3rd issue. In fact, IIRC, GI Joe was apart of SHIELD.

>>95123183
it's best to let plebs gobble up trash in peace

>>95123247
>>95125222
It has more to do with the fact that it's an author work and it's complete. Anything else feels like a shitty fanfiction or cash in.

>>95123116
wow so intredasting

>>95124844
It's not even the work of a hack but at least that could have some love in it even if it's objectively crap, see the average fanfic. This is an editorial mandate and Johns is a company man doing the job. Of course Johns is a hack but he's into the project for following orders. And just like Johns was enthusiastic about gore and edgy shit some years ago, now he's all about hope and inspiration because that's what DC think the nerds want.

>>95124881
>Hey,i dont read modern comics,but i know the basic stuff about the characters,and i have read watchmen.
>Im actually excited by this
This is the reaction DC actually expect

>>95124970
>johns
>one of... best writers
capes are not in a good state right now but that's really pushing it

>>95126246
>It's all about hope and inspiration.
They need to stop focusing on Supesfags.

>>95125069
>It's not Charlton characters meeting their expies
Fuckkkk

>>95124858
>The writer is a capable one, and isn't a big mindeless corporation.

You left that part out.

>>95126049
Read academic works maybe? I'm not going to cite you every journal or book or individual essays that don't give a fuck about Harry Potter or criticizes it. Academia doesn't really care for most of modern fiction or author or writers like Steven King, they especially don't care for YA stuff. Only YA stuff you'll find analyzed there is classics like Hobbits or Narnia or Alice.
To be honest I don't blame you or anyone for not caring about academic studies or not being familiar enough with the trends, as much as I would like to meme about here, I know about it because of my career choices. For further inquiries visit >>>/lit/.
>>95126126
Correct term for what I'm describing literature is literary fiction or literary works. They're all literature, Tolstoy's work would be literary fiction and Harry Potter would be Young Adult literature. Watchmen isn't quite literary fiction but as its popularity within these circle grows and people become more willing to accept graphic fiction as serious piece of art, I think it would definitely be considered one.

>>95125196
Hey, I like Providence.

>>95126049
>>95126126
Harry Potter is not literature. Holy fuck. Do you think Stephen King is literature as well?

Jesus christ get off /co/. Even the autists (actually especially the autists) on /lit/ will tell you how silly you are. Holy fucking hell I'm actually surprised people think this.

There is no merit in a Harry Potter book. Even though I've read most of them more than I care to count. It's purely for leisure, there is nothing academic about it. Anyone studying Harry Potter for it's themes and characters past middle school needs to grow up. After that point it's best to look at the series from a marketing stand point and learn what it and the various series that followed it did to tap into the general market and gain recognition from fools as being literature while being a simple YA series.

>>95123116
If there's one thing capeshit writers should learn from Watchmen it's that you can't have a great story without a well thought-out definitive ending. End yourself Johns.

>>95126071
>>95126126
>>95126396
>>95126440
I never said I think Harry Potter is great literature. I read it when I was a kid and left it at that.

But my point was that if Watchmen being taught by universities is what gives it merit, then Harry Potter has that same merit.

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>>95125196
nearly got me

>>95126387
>The writer is a capable one, and isn't a big mindeless corporation
Yeah, if only DC would have the artistic sense to publish something like Watchmen. But they would never do that, because they're just a mindless corporation.

>>95126440
I never agreed by the classification of it being literature, but for whatever fucking reason my college class thought it was, and I fully disagreed. It has ZERO fucking value to it, but that doesnt stop modern fucking education from trying to pick it apart and trying to sell it as something worth talking about on commentary that isnt fucking there. I just said it was trash, how about calming the fuck down you autist.

>2017
>people still believe that Watchmen is peak comic book
What is wrong with people?

>>95126673
good artistic taste

>>95123116

This could give batman and DC characters in general some background and context on Dr. M. Knowing where he came from, what he experienced. Could prove a useful advantage to take him on. Especially when it's been said that it won't be a punch-out situation.

>>95124519

Well, that sucks.

>>95126646
fuck I hate the kind of snobs that prop up their shitty novellas and their medium-wise equivalent, but dismiss something else because x genre or y medium cannot be taken seriously

>>95126673
so tell me anon, what's the peak of comic book?

>>95126673
They aren't autistic.

>>95123183
Casual.

>>95126782
Doomsday Clock

>>95126782
I'm not sure what the peak is, to be honest. I haven't read a lot of stuff that deserves to be in the conversation. My picks for personal favorites probably wouldn't even be near most people's tops.

But as many in this thread have said, Watchmen probably isn't even peak Moore, let alone peak comics. It's great, don't get me wrong, but it's just such a lazy answer.

>>95123183
>>95123198
sacred cow

>>95125405

Academia is obsessed with literary canon and you won't get an actual literary scholar to admit that comics can even compare. Those fucks are too snobbish. I know because I work with them.

That said, the comics courses taught at universities that are not exclusively about the form and narratology are the worst. Literally just a way for teachers to have a lax semester. Mostly its just "apply the literary theory of the week to this comic" or gender studies.

So the word of academia means nothing in the field of comics.

>>95126902
This is why it makes me laugh when people bring up Watchmen having a presence in academia as some kind of validation that it's the greatest thing of all time.

Most likely academia saw it gained some traction as being regarded as "the best comic" and didn't look into the matter any further. It's being discussed in classes related to sociology and narrative, not anywhere near actual literary discussion. Wanting comics to be discussed in the same vein as prose literature is a foolish endeavour anyway, comics are every bit as much about art and visuals as they are writing - the best avenue for real discussion of the merits of comics as a medium would probably be a course on semiotics, or art and design.

>>95126508
My man it's like you are intentionally misreading my point and then attempting to call me a fool. That wasn't my whole argument, read the thread again.

>>95127025
First post: >>95125405
>being taught at universities

What was that again?

>>95126902
>I know because I work with them.
Same here, I know, that's why I later clarified it as almost being there. I've seen few professors saying that it's like good genre fiction that transcends the local traps of narrative genre but not as good as any of the literature. Then there are those that believe less and less about the hierarchy of art and think it's a masterwork. Academia will always be split on whether pop/low art can be considered serious art but Watchmen is as close as it gets and it is very much"academia approved."

>>95127052
>academia sucks its dick
I wonder.

Doesn't matter how contrarian you are and how many indie/weeb books you've read, Watchmen is a peerless example of comics storytelling.

>>95127192
That statement means NOTHING. You're literally saying "some smart people I know think it's great."

>>95127194
>if I insult people, my opinion counts more!
Watchmen may be amazing, but it's not peerless. There are lots of great comic books with amazing storytelling.

>>95123614

Fags like you are why Tracer is gay now

>>95127209
That's how russian literature, PKD or so on were recognized ma dud. Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean it holds no actual value.

>>95127284
It's intangible though. You're just making up arbitrary definitions of acedamia.

>>95127229
Amazing art, great use of panneling, storytelling techniques that are exclusive to the medium? Sure, you can find gems like that.
Well executed interesting and multifaceted story? Moore himself has more ambitious works.

Combining all of the above in a perfect collaboration? Hardly anyone compares.

>>95127229
I agree. I won't call it close to being the best comic, but it's still far better than Euro Scifi thrash and Jojo.

>>95127381
Are you sure the problem's with me and not with your uneducated self about what academic studies and academic works are and how they appropriate a piece of art? Must be me, sorry for wasting your time, you are right about everything.

>DC: Before Watchmen
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Johns: After Watchmen feat. Justice League
>Based Rebirth

>>95123183
Look at every cape hero made by the big two
you think any of them have done well being constantly inflected with crossovers, other writers visions and community in the long run?
Watchman was spared of that for almost 3 decades.

>>95127536
One was meant to be a canonical prequel to Watchmen

One is using the Watchmen characters in a completely new setting.

See the difference?

>>95127522
My point is this, and you seem to be missing it: Why does it matter?

Why does it matter if a bunch of professors think that Watchmen is worth teaching? Is that how you shape your opinions?

>>95127571

But this new stuff is the canonical sequel to Watchmen

>>95127605
Only in the sense that someone else says it is. If you want Watchmen to end at #12, that's where it ends.

Same with BW. If you want Watchment to start at #1, that's where it starts.

Anyone who thinks either series affects the original is fucking stupid.

>>95127605
Not really. No one is ever going to say "now that you've finished Watchmen, go read the sequel *Doomsday Clock*!" outside of maybe some bullshit marketing for this event.

And the fact that Rorschach is possibly going to appear makes it pretty obvious this isn't a proper sequel.

what are the chances Geoff slips in an interview and refers to this as a Watchmen sequel so Moore can sue and DC will lose rights to their greatest nonBat-cash cow

>>95123183
>Implying Moore still cares about Watchmen these days

>>95127899
>so moore can sue
Why the hell would he be able to sue?

>>95127590
>why does it matter if some professors start liking genrefiction
>why does it matter if some professors start talking about foreign literature
>why does it matter if people's whose opinions are are worth something start giving opinions
To be honest my man I can definitely tell you why academia matters and why it matters in these local context but then you would find something else to move your goalposts. Why educate the unwilling?

>>95127977
the contract says if they attempt to write a sequel without his permission, the rights for republishing the original get reverted back to him
it's an evergreen book, a regular best seller decades after release, basically printing $

>>95127977
>Why the hell would he be able to sue?

He lost the rights but still retained any rights to sequels some weird legal stuff

>>95128009
>>95128007
Got a source for that? I can't find anything. And if they can get away with BW or Doomsday Clock, I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't be able to sue for Watchmen 2.

>>95125159
subtle

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>>95124007
Bokko.
Tigresse Blanche.
Takemitsu Zamurai.
Théodore Poussin.
Hunter x Hunter.

>>95124101
You mean out of.

>>95127638
>>95127690
>this level of damage control

it's literally a canonical sequel. In fact, when Before Rebirth came out, many were saying "what's next? they are going to fuck up Watchmen by making a sequel exploring Rorschach journal too?"

>>95128588
It's a canonical sequel just like LoEG is a canonical sequel to Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

I don't get the hate for this, if it's good it's good and if it's bad then just ignore it. It's not like the history of watchmen would be destroyed since it's self contained.

>>95128620
>artist says something
Oh well now it's 100% canon I guess!

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>>95123116
Looks like Rorschach really won the whole time.
At least that's one thing that won't push Alan Moore to kill himself.
Ozyfags btfo

>>95128688
They'll literally never understand that.

>>95128688
It's definitely going to be bad, and if you're a fan of comics and DC in particular, wanting good comics instead is not an irrational response.

>>95128793
Eh I would like to give the benefit of the doubt. It's retarded to pass judgement when you haven't really seen anything besides snippets and shit. I'm hoping its good but I don't have my hopes too high so if I get let down it won't be that bad.

>>95128419
>hiatus x hiatus
I want this meme to die

>>95124246
What the fuck did I actually read here?

>>95123183
Instead of being excited that Rorschach finally gets his revenge, you're hating simply because Watchmen isn't self-contained anymore. Hey, moron, it never was. All realities exist within the DC continuity. It was going to have consequences sooner or later.

>>95123198
Im just tired of rehashes.

Im tired of the same three 80s books, Killing Joke, Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns keeping super hero books hostage. I wanna see something different now.

>>95128945
That will only happen once those three books stop being DC's top sellers.

>>95128850
That meme is even mainstream-ish in nipland, Gintama poked fun at it multiple times.

>>95124881
>Anyone care to explain that?
Probably some parallel universe/speedforce bullshit like always.

>>95128841
DC's consistently terrible decade long track record lead by their golden boy who is directly responsible for the vapid grimdark bullshit he now claims to eschew should be all the indicators you need.

>>95123591
Except that's not true because Superheroes have crossovers with other Superheroes constantly, even from other standalone universes, and especially when one company owns them.

>>95124492
>>95123591
>>95124511
Let's not forget that the Watchmen characters themselves are all expys of Charleston characters

>>95128688
it's embarassing and stupid

>>95124521
>no classic Blue and Grey Batman
literally one job.

>>95129082
>implying Meltzer isn't the genesis of the grimdark

>>95129161
Meltzer is a good writer though

>>95124246
I thought /co/ was, for the most part, fairly fond of Moore for years but over time developed a bit of a distaste for him because of the various negative interviews he gave.

And you don't need to actually like Moore or his work to take issue with DC milking Watchmen

>>95129211
Johns has had his clunkers but he's never written anything as bad as Identity Crisis.

>>95126440
>There is no merit in a Harry Potter book.
Absolutely right, brother. That's why they sold half a billion copies. Because they were badly written.

>>95129150
How so?

>>95129387
Popular doesn't mean well-written unless you believe Twilight and 50 Shades should also be considered classic literature.

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>>95128146
Watchmen 2 already happened though.

>>95130005
>watchmex
>huh, never heard of that
>looks like probably fan art shit
>google
>find the wiki
>...wait a sec
>how did I not know about this?
>oh wait...

Yeah, I'm retarded - almost fell for that.

>>95130160
>Could have strung along the newfags for at least 50 posts with old WatchmeX covers and panels
>Instead you blow it on the first reply

This is why /co/ is no fun any more.

>>95125187
It's a nursery rhyme, you mongoloid.

>>95124605
Appropriate given that Watchmen _is_ non-canon fanfic. One of my top ten comics ever, maybe top five but still non-canon fanfic.

>>95130214
...I'm fucking stupid yet again
My bad, anon. I've fucked up.

>>95130289
Never mind, we'll reconvene and try this again next year.

>>95130005
I don't care how shit this is, that's Darwyn Cooke isn't it?

>>95130332
We can do it in 2 days and no one will even remember. I promise not to fail you.

>>95130373
It was actually the first work he did for DC, yeah. Writing's not great, but the art on the first 3 issues was killer until they replaced him with Liefield.

>>95130373
Its an edit of one of his covers for his Spirit run he did on DC

>>95130410
I genuinely have no idea if some genius came up with an idea like this so I'm happy to be stung along.

>>95130471
I should be drunk for this thread. Thanks, Anon. Maybe.

>>95123116
batman / rorschach team up when?

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>>95130410
>Liefeld's WatchmeX run

>>95124492
There's this thing called context. Blanket statements like that are stupid.
There's a world of difference between what Moore (and many other authors) have done with popular characters and what DC is doing with Watchmen, and has done with all their characters.
If you can't see that, you're probably one of those people that take pride in making money for their boss.

>>95130821
Judgement Day is actually an underrated classic

>>95123198
They don't own it!
Alan get 8% of everything and if they don't do anything with it for 2 years he get back all the rights.

>>95131385
>[citation needed]
He gets royalties, that doesn't mean he owns it.

>>95128633

Listen man, I know what you mean, it's not a sequel in my head too. But the fact of the matter is that if DC says that that is the canonical continuation of Watchmen, then it is. That's how comics canon is defined. Everything else is headcannon.

Of course it stills means nothing for the reader. Like your example you could always argue that you follow the author canon, not the publisher canon (if you felt the need to argue such things at all).

>>95131562
>if DC says that that is the canonical continuation of Watchmen, then it is
Sure (for now), but they haven't even said that yet. As far as I'm concerned, this is just an elseworld Watchmen that shares a history with the original Watchmen, and that's how I reckon it'll be.

Like how the DCU and the DKU both share Year One as Batman's origin.