Pat Mills > Grant Morrison

>>94930650
Considering Morrison's body of work, I think it's entirely disingenuous to not only imply, but outright state, that the only people who could possible prefer him over Mills are "superhero fans".

Also, no, awards never count. Though the real mistake is ever giving them apparent weight in the first place.

>>94930650
Because Mills is for metalheads.

>>94930650
99% of current comics readers only started reading comics because of the movies. Morrison is the most popular writer among modern readers because he's the one who crosses over between "mainstream superhero action" and "artsy fartsy shit" the most, so he appeals to the broadest range of people.

For better or worse, this is the current state of comics fandom.

>>94930734
Morrison has never made a non-superhero comic worth reading. He's done some impressive stuff, but he's a one-note who can only write one type of story in one type of genre in one specific superhero universe. We3 is the outlier, but even that was carried 100% by Quitely's art.

>>94930901
>Never made a non-cape comic worth reading
>What is Invisibles
>What is Nameless

>>94930650
He sounds so damn salty.

Both are shitty hacks who should kill themselves already
>>94930901
>We3
>outlier
>MUH EDGY PETA COMMERCIAL

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>>94930939

He also wrote Slaine, Marshal Law and Requiem which are hardly mediocre. Of course those all are titles the yankee capeshit plebs don't know shit about.

>>94930964
Trying too hard.
>le kill yourself maymay XD
>Muh Muh Muh
>EDGY

>>94930967
That zombie is wearing some tight fucking pants.

>>94930967
Marshal Law is kind of mediocre after the first one. But Slaine is fucking excellent and Charley's War better.

>>94930969
>implying I'm wrong
Nothing they ever wrote can appeal to anyone but white trash in some redneck shithole.
>>94930967
>which are hardly mediocre
Yeah, mediocre is too generous of a word.

>>94930986
>implying I'm wrong

Can't handle the truth. Buzzwordposter.

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>>94930974

Requiem is an entertaining read.

>>94930997
Can't handle your shit taste, subhuman.

>>94931006
In the same vein The Room is an entertaining film, yeah.

>>94931008
Big talk from a fake """contrarian""" that never read comics.

>>94931012

>t. salty DC cuck.

>>94930939
objectively wrong

>>94931012
>le contrarian meme
Lel, and this faggot harps on people for using buzzwords.
And yes, I've read that trash, unfortunately.

>>94931026
>using "lel"
>using "faggot"
>accusing someone else of calling buzzwords
>nothing to say about a comic other than calling it "trash"

Yep, it's the same """contrarian""" poster that pretends he ever read any comics at all, much less anything discussed in the thread.

>>94930929
The Invisibles is a superhero comic.

Nameless is garbage.

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>>94930974

She doesn't have a nose and even worse she's a feminist, yet I want to fuck her.

>>94930964
Like I said, only worth reading for the art.

>>94931043
>hypocritical faggot is this assblasted
Lel.
>m-muh cawtwawian
Pathetic.
>nothing to say about a comic other than calling it "trash"
Maybe because that's all it is. Since you're enjoying it, go back to fucking your cousin.
>>94931054
I'll take that.

>>94931045
>Nameless is Garbage

You are fake news.

>>94931075
>>94931026
>>94931008
>>94930986
>>94930964
Is this really how anti-cape fans argue? No wonder it's dominated by capeshit.

>>94931103
>implying I'm a genrefag
I like what is good regardless of the genre. Morrison's and Mills' shit is anything but good.

>>94930650
Zenith is better than Nemesis The Warlock. If he can't take a few booes then he should of himself.

>>94930978
Miracleman is a better satire of the superhero genre, but then again it was written by an actually good writer.

>>94931154
Agreed. ML's critique of capes was just too in your face.

>>94931172
Nope.

>>94931210
OK, prove me wrong. Post examples of in-your-face critique of capes in MM.

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>>94931138
Nemesis was good until Pat became fucking spastic in the contemporary political climate and started to insert Torquemada as less of a character and more of an avatar of religious system that he felt victimised by when he was growing up. This plus the bizarre shit such as:
>We suddenly change realities and Torquemada is evil skinhead leader in Thatcher-era Great Britain who is trying to marginalise people from other realities to become supreme dictator

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>>94931162

It did have its moments, like Marshal Law saying how superheroism is just heroism with condom on. Superheroes don't put their lives on the line like common people do so therefore they are less heroic.

The Marvel insane asylum was my favorite though.

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>>94931220

The whole religious system made Torquemada more awesome. Thats the stuff W40K stole ideas from after all. That very slogan in your image is the slogan everyone knows and loves Torquemada for. Termight were cool villains.

>>94931131
What is good?

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>>94931258
Yes I understand that. The whole shift came alter on after that as I texted in greentext.

>>94931220
>he gave up on Nemesis when it got too weird

> until Pat became fucking spastic in the contemporary political climate
>I have never read 2000AD

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>>94930650

>>94931131
>genrefag
What

>>94930650
Morrisons comics are junkie trash, of course his fans are retarded

>>94930650
Morrison's fans are as pretentious and childish as his later works.

>>94930901
New Adventures of Hitler?

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>>94932744
>>94932722

>>94930650
What a baby lol

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>>94932744
later works? as opposed to what? Invisibles?

>>94930650
Except for Charley's war, Mills is pretty much a capeshit writer too. Wagner and Moore are the Brits I think of who can write non Genre shit.

>>94930967
It's ironic since Yankee comics like Fanta, D&Q and indies are consistently better than shit like 2000 ad which is full of badly written Sci fi schlock.

>>94932830
>Except for Charley's war, Mills is pretty much a capeshit writer too
So Nemesis, Slaine, ABC Warriors, and helping develop Judge Dredd doesn't count?

>>94931235
>Superheroes don't put their lives on the line like common people do so therefore they are less heroic
I always hated this type of complaint from anti-cape works.

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>listening to the Be Pure! audiobook
>Mills and Ledroit had a Vampire: Requiem Knight party in a nightclub
>They both emerged from coffins surrounded by Requiem and Claudia cosplayers
>"French publishers still know how to have fun making comics."
I may not always agree with everything he says, but what a glorious, absolute madman.

>>94932981
Do you have an argument against it?

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>>94930734
>Considering Morrison's body of work, I think it's entirely disingenuous to not only imply, but outright state, that the only people who could possible prefer him over Mills are "superhero fans"

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

Morrison is the worst kind of capeshit writter, the kind that appeals to manchildren by pretending that their McDonald's tier stories are "American mythology" and not an extremely shitty genre where 90% of the companie's products are shit, and even their biggest sales barely sell any comic.

>>94932830

>It's ironic since Yankee comics like Fanta, D&Q and indies are consistently better than shit like 2000 ad which is full of badly written Sci fi schlock.

And european sci-fi, fantasy, historical and indie comics are leagues better if you want to start comparing dick sizes. Granted it is a bit unfair comparison because comics are way smaller niche in the US.

>>94932981

>I always hated this type of complaint from anti-cape works.

Why? Nobody really cheers for Goku in Dragonball Z either because he always pulls stuff out of his ass to win the day. In contrast a clear underdog like Krillin is ten times more heroic because he knows he's going to get his shit kicked in by way stronger villains but he goes out in the field anyway because he wants to help his friends.

>>94932876
Nemesis and Dredd have many elements in common with cape books, particularly Judge Dredd - costume, rogues gallery, sidekicks, secret identity (in a metatextual sense), superpowers, and magic.

>>94933050
Unless they're flatout unable to be harmed by any actions taken against them, they're still putting their lives on the line. I'd be like saying a fireman rushing into a burning building is less heroic because he's wearing protective gear. It's basically a "Real Men do X" applied to selfless actions.

>>94933123
>Superheros are never in the position of an underdog
>Superheros never suffer loss or defeats

It's pretty standard for superheros to live a life of incredible pain and suffering. Even Superman fails to save Chris, Pa Kent, Mon-El, gets his ass beat by Wraith and Darkseid and Mogul and Ulysses (and so on and so on).

>>94930901

>>what is the Invisibles
>>what is Joe the Barbarian
>>what is the Filth
>>what is Annihilator
>>what is Seaguy

tldr; kys

>>94933050
A couple.
>Superheroes's threats tend to be in the same weight class as the superhero
>saving people doesn't need the caveat of being life and death.
>it's a little hypocritical seeing how Hard men characters like Marshall law and the punisher have their own superpowers of being the main characters.

>>94933050
superheroes die in the line of duty all the time. being able to shoot laser beams out your fingernails doesn't stop Gygax the Deceiver from tearing you apart with his bare hands
not to mention the above average risk of suffering a fate worse than death.

>>94933165
>Characters being able to do incredible feats only counts against your superheros and not against my action heros

Genrefags are cancer.

>>94933140

>It's pretty standard for superheros to live a life of incredible pain and suffering. Even Superman fails to save Chris, Pa Kent, Mon-El, gets his ass beat by Wraith and Darkseid and Mogul and Ulysses (and so on and so on).

And then he can travel back in time and erase all that, or punch reality and make it better. A firefighter going against DarkSeid would've just died on the spot instantly. Heroism requires a sacrifice, which is why a poor guy who gives all of his belongings to the poor is more of a hero than a rich dude who gives more money but less of his overall belongings to them.

>>94933228
Well, Superheroes aren't real for one thing so trying to compare what they do in stories versus what real life people do is kind of stupid.

Superheroes can do anything you want them to because they are fictional.

If self sacrifice is what is needed to be a real hero, then anyone could just point out one of the dozens of stories where a superhero has sacrificed their life to stop a world ending threat.

Hell, just having superpowers and using them to help other people is already many, many steps above what the average person would do if given special abilities that make them immune to most consequences. If you give the average /co/ reader Supermans full suite of powers the planet would probably be a cinder in the span of a month. They certainly wouldn't be spending their time helping people caught in natural disasters or foiling robberies.

>>94933165

>Superheroes's threats tend to be in the same weight class as the superhero

Those threats are even bigger to the regular heroes.

>saving people doesn't need the caveat of being life and death.

But heroism does.

>it's a little hypocritical seeing how Hard men characters like Marshall law and the punisher have their own superpowers of being the main characters.

Marshal Law is not a superhero though. He's a vigilante who hunts superheroes and admits he gets sick sexual pleasure from making them suffer. Only person Law ever considers a hero in the book is Kiloton, his deputy who gets gruesomely killed by a sociopathic Batman parody.

>>94933278

>Well, Superheroes aren't real for one thing so trying to compare what they do in stories versus what real life people do is kind of stupid.

So why do the fans of capeshit get angry when someone points out the fact they're barely actually heroes despite having superpowers and doing good things?

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Mills has one note that's "T-take that, f-fascists!"

>>94930650
stop being a mark for yourself

>>94933286
>But heroism does.
No it doesn't. If a Doctor saves a person's life with no threat to his own I am not going to claim the Doctor is no goddan hero..
Saving a person's life is already a heroic feat.

>>94932830
>non Genre shit.
Motherfucking Peter Milligan.

>>94933123
>And european sci-fi, fantasy, historical and indie comics are leagues better
They really really really aren't.

>>94933286
>Those threats are even bigger to the regular heroes.
And? I don't see how somebody stopping an alien invasion from wiping out humanity is any less heroic than somebody stopping a mugging gone bad.

>>94933315
Because you seem to have a very narrow and extremely specific definition of heroism that doesn't really apply to almost any situation in either real life or fiction?

If you look at heroism as sacrifice then I could see a real life superhero being extremely heroic from a point of view.

When you risk losing your life what you are risking is missing out on every potential moment of your future, any pleasure you could derive from your life and any accomplishments you may have had. Jumping in front of a bus to push a kid out of the way means that you'll never eat your favorite breakfast or talk to the woman you love or drink a beer again because you'll be dead.

So what does a superhero give up by devoting most of their life to helping out the people around them with petty shit? Pretty much unlimited possibilities. Superman could do anything in the world and he chooses to spend his time helping out schlubs because its the nice thing to do. It's crazy as hell.

>>94933354

>Saving a person's life is already a heroic feat.

And those who risk their lives or sacrifice something to save someone else are more heroic than that doctor. Thats just the way heroism works and why Superheroes are barely heroes because doing heroic shit is quite effortless for them.

>>94930650
>Pat Mills
literally who?

>>94933123
>And european sci-fi, fantasy, historical and indie comics are leagues better
No, they aren't. They're just as saturated with mediocre genre comics. Remember that Tin tin, Duck comics and Asterix are some of the most famous Euro comics.

>>94933123
>Nobody really cheers for Goku in Dragonball Z either
Except.. they do.

And are you seriously trying to argue that a secondary characters shows guts by going against a tougher opponent and getting beaten than the main character coming in to save the day? Are you seriously acknowledging the fact that they're fictional characters but also trying to imply that they are sentient and are aware of the cliches that bound them? People like Mills that make genrefiction or schlocky action stuff or Punisher style shit are goddamn retarded. You're writing goddamn capeshit yourself, motherfucker. And you're not smart enough to deconstruct, reconstruct or analyze an entire genre anyway.

>>94933399
>And those who risk their lives or sacrifice something to save someone else are more heroic than that doctor
No. You're a fucking idiot.

>>94933454
Pat Mills is definitely smarter than you are though, anon.

>>94933399
>And those who risk their lives or sacrifice something to save someone else are more heroic than that doctor
That's not how it works though, you don't get extra hero points if you're in danger. If I was in the army and I got shot and my buddy dragged out while he was under fire I would consider him a hero.
If years down the road I have a heart attack in the middle of the street and a Doctor then I would consider him a hero too.

I didn't realise there was someone on /co/ who was autistically triggered by Mills. Or is it just a Morrisonfag?

>>94933475
Apparently, he's not. And I'm not a particularly smart person either.

I didn't realise there was someone on /co/ who was autistically triggered by Morrison. Or is it just a Pat Mills himself?

>>94933286
>'s a vigilante who hunts superheroes and admits he gets sick sexual pleasure from making them suffer.
G
He still gonna win though. How many times has Marshall Law been pushed to the limits when he's fighting superheroes? Has Marshall Law's life ever been truly been put in danger when he's out doing his anti-capeshit schtick?

>>94933496
I'm more amazed that /co/ knows who Pat Mills is.

>>94933551
>Has Marshall Law's life ever been truly been put in danger when he's out doing his anti-capeshit schtick?
You could have just said you haven't read it

>>94933559
Well we're still within britbong waking hours.

>>94933445
The most important British comic book writer, keep up.

>>94933687
But that's not Neil Gaiman.

>>94933528
No, I mean. I'm not the guy you were arguing with. But Pat Mills is definitely smarter than you, straight up. He's smarter than me too.

>>94933729
But he's not smarter than me.

>>94930650
If the Eagle Award does no more truly count, why whereupon Morrison being denied one were the cape fanatics booing and cape executives vexed?

>>94933632
I didn't, that why I'm asking the question.

>>94933774
Go read it then. Alan Moore himself reccomends it.

>>94933766
Sour grapes

>>94933729
You don't know me, motherfucker.

>>94933454
>And you're not smart enough to deconstruct, reconstruct or analyze an entire genre anyway.
Read Charley's War.

>>94933146
>M-MY BANG BANG WAHOOO STORIES ARE M-MATURE

t. neckbeard

>>94931665
I didn't give up. I simply thought it got somewhat worse. And I meant that he became spastic in the context of being a 2000AD writer.

>>94933985
You sound more like a neckbeard than that guy anon.

>>94934012
Dumb memes will always be less autistic than elevating stories for teens as some deep mature content. Sorry to burst your delusion Morrisonfag.

>>94930901
>99% of comic readers started because of the movies

You're so fucking wrong it's not even funny

>>94933089
>mentions McDonald's
>mentions American mythology

Assblasted euro indie fag detected

>>94933985
>Bang bang wahoo

Get the FUCK back to /v/

>>94933687
>British
>mattering

>>94930967
Could you please post the page before that?

>>94933146
2 of those are superhero comics, the others are garbage

>>94934665
>2 of those are superhero comics
Which ones.

Why are morronsonfags so cancer?

>genreshit
What the hell does that even mean? I can understand not liking capes but are you just dismissing comics because they could be categorized into a genre?

>>94933559
How could we not?

>>94934756
Certain writers are very concerned with the genre their work fits into.

>>94933399
>Those who risk or sacrifice their lives are more heroic than the doctor

I hope you code and no one bothers to save you, you piece of human filth.

>>94933228
>And he can travel back in time and erase all that

Except when he can't and has to deal with the consequences of his failures, which he does in just about any continuity.

Even Silver Age couldn't change time. He tried that with Krypton and Abraham Lincoln and just created alternate timelines.

Superman is a hero because he's been shown time and time again to be willing to sacrifice himself for the good of all. In the first Brainiac story he was willing to let himself remain small and powerless in order for Kandor to be resized but the Kandorians chose to use their chance on Superman to not deprive Earth of its greatest hero. At the end of Geoff John's Nu52 run he talks down a mugger while depowered knowing full well he can be shot.

Writers show time and time again that Superman is a good man who has powers and will do the right thing without them. That's why he's a hero.

>>94934711
Have you read this thread? The one being cancer is the salty Eurocomics fag who thinks the only characters that can be heroes are gritty violent action types who bleed and scowl a lot.

>>94933228
>travel back in time
Superman can't do that shit anymore. If you're going to complain about capeshit, at least fucking read it.

>>94934048
>says the guy vehemently defending Judge Dredd and Requiem

>>94935664
Even when he could he wasn't able to just make the bad things of his life go away. He made an alternate reality where Krypton never exploded but he could never bring back HIS Krypton.

>>94933050
Not that anon (and I think Marshal Law is funny as fuck most of the time) but I have to admit that the stuff >>94931235 mentions sounds insightful until you start thinking about it a bit more. I think the issue is that the subject of superheroes in Marshal Law is a bit muddled since the term in Marshal Law's universe refers to douchebags like Public Spirit but also the soldiers who went off to war and got discarded by their government (and spend their time in illegal arenas or willing to let paying customers beat them up for money). If this is a criticism of the superhero genre in general then it's ridiculous since they're fictional.

I guess the stronger interpretation is comparing superheroes to celebrities and celebrity worship. And that's what Public Spirit and Private Eye and some others in Marshal Law mostly are, and some of the superheroes Ennis' The Boys. But then to do that you're basically making a superhero not be a superhero.

>>94936100
>Basically making a superhero not be a superhero

This is why most superhero "deconstructions" fall flat on their face. They take the idea of "what if this functional person with a good heart had the power of a god" and change it to "what if this very disturbed psychopath had the power of a god".

The only superhero deconstruction that actually dealt with a superhero as a superhero was the first-Miracleman.

Watchmen was less about superheros and more about Cold War politics. Masrhal Law and Ennis books are jealous wish fulfillment stories by people that don't understand that action heroes are the same thing as superheros.

>>94936100
>>94936361
Do you remember the reason Marshal Law hates the Public Spirit so much? What his whole fucking catchphrase means?

>>94936571
Do you also remember the Super Babylon storyarc?

>>94936361
>Ennis books are jealous wish fulfillment stories by people that don't understand that action heroes are the same thing as superheroes.
I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think the Boys was meant to be taken so seriously. At least to me, it always read more like a blackly comedic pisstake of heroes, rather than an earnest deconstruction.

>>94935867
Why wouldn't you defend Judge Dredd and Requiem?

>>94938658
Dredd is cool but Requiem is fucking garbage.

>>94933123
>Why? Nobody really cheers for Goku in Dragonball Z either because he always pulls stuff out of his ass to win the day.
Goku died multiple times because there wasn't another way

>>94934837
I guess, but it seems weird so many people seem to hate the idea of genres.

>>94938658
They're great but it's hypocritical to elevate them while denigrating capes