What's with all the hate for current Marvel?

>>94905661
How long have you been reading comics? Have you read any Marvel stuff not made within the last 10 years?

Bait

Wanna know how I can tell you haven't read a single one of the books you posted?

>>94905661
Paid shills.

>>94905676
>>94905685
>>94905686

X-Men Blue is pretty good actually.

>>94905718
kek

>>94905661
Why is Gambit so tiny on that Dare Devil cover?

>>94905734
That's not Gambit. That's Daredevil's new Asian (((Inhuman))) sidekick.

>>94905661

Marvel's fanbase is full of racist mysogibsts.

Not surprising. Marvel has one of the worst fanbases ever. They embody every negative stereotype of comicbook readers.

>>94905759
What was wrong with Echo, the sexy Latina who can't hear you sneak up on her

>>94905795
She died, got Bendis'd in Moon Knight.

>>94905805
Bendis Bendised his own Bendis!!??

>>94905759
>inhuman
But he isn't inhuman

>>94905718
...

>>94905812
Yeah, meanwhile REE REE is allowed to walk free. Shit sucks.

>>94905676
I've been reading for 5 years and yes I have read comics older than 10 years. I got a Marvel Unlimited subscription so I read a lot of older stuff. Those comics were okay but they were really samey and didn't speak to me like Marvel's current output does.

>>94905685
How is this bait?

>>94905686
How, pray tell.

>>94905924
kys

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>>94905661
>What's with all the hate for current Marvel?

>>94905956
Why?

>>94905985
People have yet to explain to me why they hate current Marvel.

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>>94905661
>I love that Marvel is looking for talent in the most unexpected of places
> I think their books have never looked cooler or more appealing before

I'm legitimately, seriously, crying with laughter. You made my fucking night OP

>>94906023
Do you have autism or something? What's going on?

>>94905661
What's up Prof.Warren? Did DisMarvel order you to start shilling outside of CBR now?

>>94906045
Who?

>>94905661
Probably bait but here's my input.

As someone who's catching up on Marvel over the last few years, because DC got THAT shitty, I'm seeing the changes easier.

My MAIN gripe though is that Marvel panders so hard to the SJW crowd. I remember someone posting from (new avengers?) a panel where the heroes were so fucking interchangeable dialogue because there's zero personalities and uniqueness.

Like I'm all for LGBT characters and strong dames, Carol please step on me, but they force it so hard and it's so bad. They create issues that never get addressed again.

And they take iconic characters and completely revamp them instead of making new characters.

BUT, this is coming from a guy who thinks MK was their best time frame and enjoys events so take all that with however much salt you need to.

>>94905924
>those comics were okay but they were really samey

As someone who's also using MU to catch up, I can confidently tell you to disregard everything I said because you're retarded as fuck.

2/10 for getting me to make an actual response earlier.

>>94906069
Thank you, at least someone is willing to actually explain to me why they dislike current Marvel.

>>94906088
???
That's just my opinion. The writing and art seemed really similar between titles.

>>94905661

This. This is bait.

Because it's all either toothless shlock, propaganda and shilling, or a total bastardization of whatever or whomever the book's about.

Plus they aren't even hiding their agenda anymore. Their agenda IS Marvel comics. Progressive trash at it's worst. They don't wanna tell a interesting story, they want to preach. At least until they get a job writing somewhere else.

>>94906114
No, it's not. I'm being dead serious. Why is no one willing to tell me why they dislike current Marvel?

>>94906111
>writing and art seemed really similar
Let's play a game called name artists with distinct styles off the top of your head because you actually pay attention to who does what.

Protip: you already lost.

>>94906120
How involved is Disney with this end of of Marvel now? I want a conspiracy to blame.

Their books feels so juvenile apart from a select few.

>>94906134
If you're going to be unnecessarily rude there's no point in having a conversation with you.

>>94906006
FWIW I absolutely think there's some good stuff coming out from Marvel right now. Gwenpool, X-Men Blue and Gold, and Astonishing X-Men; Ultimates^2 (just ended) and U.S.Avengers (both of which mark Al Ewing's continuing personal journey through the Marvel U, an amazing read only 9,000 people are apparently reading). Notice how a lot of this isn't what Marvel's choosing to put center stage right now?

It's the alleged A-Tracks that are the weak spot. Secret Empire, which is supposed to be the big blockbuster crossover we should all be hype about, sucks. It has bad art and a story contrived for movie synergy. It makes everything it touches retarded (U.S.Avengers only got around its obligatory tie-in by already being hilariously retarded), and then you have--squatting like a giant black spider--BENDIS, and his titles, 15 Year Old Black Girl That's My OC Donut Steel Ownz The Marvel Universe + The Big TV Defenders, and people are absolutely right to complain about all this stuff and it's what Marvel chooses to put on posters and push to all hell (cuz it's like TV! on your TV, guys!) and it's no wonder people bitch. There's good stuff being put out by Marvel right now but it's not what's being touted as the main event.

>>94906164
Is Monsters Unleashed worth reading?

>>94905661
They may have the worst roaster of creative talent now that the company has ever had.

>>94906120
This.
I kinda have the traditional X-fan Stockholm syndrome, so I pop in on X-Men stuff here and there, but I've been unable to read any Marvel stuff since Secret Wars due to the caliber of writers they have now. Some artists are okay, and some are webcomic level, so that's a wash for me. The agendas get old. At least in the past, they tried to craft some kind of actual story around a viewpoint instead of waves of strawmen and character assassinations. Cyclops getting called "literally Hitler" every 40 seconds across all the X-books was some hot garbage. Mockingbird used to be a great character until one simple retcon turned her one point of tragic history into something absolutely vile for a person to do in the real world. Daredevil becoming an atheist, which makes no sense if you actually have any form of faith in a higher power or are religious in an actual meaningful degree (as opposed to a zealot or somesuch). The lack of editorial oversight is another huge issue. None of the editors seem to know anything about continuity or history. And, if Bendis becomes EIC anytime soon, that'll only get worse. That man forgets his own continuity most of the time.
I'll just stop here, though. OP will probably refute this, even though this is an opinion based question.

>>94905661
>Marvel is looking for talent in the most unexpected of places
Yeah like in people without talent

When all the current /co/ users were newbie moviefags back in 2012 getting excited for Marvel NOW, all the old fans were trying to tell them that it was just relaunches and gimmicks, that they were ignoring continuity and pandering to new fans.

Now all the people who were moviefag newbies back then now consider themselves "old fans", and are telling all the people who like current Marvel that it's all just relaunches and gimmicks, that they're ignoring continuity and pandering to new fans.

So if you like current Marvel, that's good for you, but enjoy being an obnoxious and jaded shitposter 5 years from now whining about future Marvel and telling new fans to stop liking what's being put out then.

>>94905661
The art in most of the books is shit tier for the most part, save for maybe Gwenpool. The art in Secret Empire is passable at best. I won't even mention unbeatable Squirrel Girl.

The writing most of the time is passable stories, but 90% of Marvel is preachy bullshit recently and people aren't buying. Marvel actually blamed consumers for not buying into the "diversity" bullshit. Comic sales for the vast of the majority of Marvel's books have been in cancellation territory for a while. Read a DC book compared to a Marvel book right now and the difference is night and day. I'm friends with a Marvel fanboy and even he says Marvel's books are shit right now. Seriously, when a writer's cover is LITERALLY "Ask me about my feminist agenda" you know they are more interested in agenda pushing than writing about an interesting story and characters.

>>94905661
Captain America and Guardians are the only good books you just posted

>>94905661
Spontaneous Mutant Dance Party.
Human Trafficking story in a #1 issue of Champions given out through the Scholastic Book Services to schools.
Artist turning X-men into a hate speech product via Quran verse placement w/ no oversight.

And lastly, shoehorned diversity replacements of established characters rather than just promoting already existing diverse characters within the Marvel story history and present time.

I'm not putting in more of an effort than this. I think I covered enough.

>>94905661
Everyone look at him and laughs.

>>94907074
>Spontaneous Mutant Dance Party.

Why do these scenes feel so out-of-place in the story?

Spider-Man/Deadpool, Gwenpool, Silver Surfer, Iron Fist, Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme, Uncanny Avengers, Old Man Logan and all of Duggan and Spencer's stuff are good/great

>>94905661
- The worst ratio of good - average - bad books in years. Especially with Ultimates getting canceled.
- Editors not doing their job leading to terrible lack of consistency (see how Banner was healed in CW2 for the worst offender), tons of basic errors slipping in, not to mention stupid plotlines that should be blocked.
- Constant mass relaunches resulting in mass cancellations thus not allowing books to develop long-term plots.
- People representing company shitposting on tumblr and twitter and treating fans like shit.
- Terrible market schemes similar to those that lead to the comic book market collapse in the 90s.

>>94905661
Company wars faggotry it's popular to hate on Marvel now. They have better artists and writers than DC at the moment.

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>>94905661

>>94907509
>- People representing company shitposting on tumblr and twitter and treating fans like shit.
Writers/artists/editors or whatever that work for marvel tweet next to nothing about comics. It's really fucking sad.

>>94906233
I liked it. Kei Kawade has a pretty cool introduction. It features Elsa Bloodstone if you're into that. But my favorite part is that each of Kei's monsters has a distinguishable personality/quirk.

>>94905718
>O5
>Ever being anything but passable at best

>>94905661
Marvel we all know why your stuff is shit.

Quit buying paid shills from M00T

>>94905805
What a loss, RIP Ronin.

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I'm hardly a typical /co/ poster in that feminism doesn't bother me and I don't believe in white genocide but even I think Marvel's hit a bit of a nadir lately

The exodus of talent that ended with Hickman has really hurt the company. Add to that the marginalization of the X-Men (and to a lesser extent F4), the fact that for everyone one good legacy characters there's 5 shitty ones who get dubious push (what happened to introducing characters, building them up as supporting cast, and then launching them solo once they're popular?), their addiction to attention grabbing headlines, their shifty business practices, the way they try to capitalize on the popularity of the movies but do a bad job...

I still read some books (mostly by Duggan and Ewing) but the company desperately needs new blood on all levels. Get rid of Brevoort and Alonso. And Slott. And Bendis. And Waid. And Aaron. And well, mostly everyone.

Not enough tits and ass.
Not enough muscle on men.

>>94908934
Liefild pls

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>>94905661
USAvengers and Gwenpool are pretty good

>>94906527
> Marvel actually blamed consumers for not buying into the "diversity" bullshit. Comic sales for the vast of the majority of Marvel's books have been in cancellation territory for a while.

This is why I believe that things will get better in the future. You can't go against the audience on purpose forever in free market, you either change or leave and pass over. Feminists have that "fuck you all, I will do as I please anyway" attitude that doesn't work well in corporate circles. The new Ghostbusters illustrate this well: everyone disliked that project from the beginning, they blamed the public for misogyny, they released the trailer and everyone hated the humor in it, they refused to reedit the movie and blamed the public again and released the film, film flopped, Sony decided against making a sequel and expanding it into a cinematic universe as they planned.
Now Marvel is pushing the agenda and writing generally weak stories, majority of audience don't like it, Marvel employees answer by blaming the audience and continue in the same manner, sells drop. It's only a matter of time before Disney will come to their offices and sort that shit out to make the machine work.

DC shills everywhere.

>>94905661

You know what? I hope you are a Marvel intern so that you can relay all this stuff back to your bosses.

Marvel, please, I'm begging you. It's not too late.

>the cancer that comes with current Marvel is now able to shut down stores

>>94910467
Clearly the Many Angled Ones succeed.

That or we're in the DC Earth-33

Either way things are a bit fucked.

Because of how uninteresting it is and complicated
When was the last time avengers sold in the top 20
And if you took out all the number one and events and and stars wars from the sales list marvel would be in 60s for the top sellers

>>94905661
Movie synergy, TV show synergy.

And comics have always had a unique identity that separates them from others. Daredevil during Bendis/Maleev era looked nothing like Spider-man during JMS/Jrjr era.

But you know what the fuck ruins this "unique identity"? Having a giant ass crossover event where all heroes hate each other for some reason every 12 fucking issues. At least before Civil War heroes were uniting to fight the bad guys and not nearly as frequently.

>>94905661
This. I wholeheartedly agree with you OP. It saddens me how the racists and misogynists in this board have completely hijacked the conversation on Marvel.

Current Marvel is probably at its best, with new and diverse characters bringing a breath of fresh air to a once stale patriarchal universe. It's also been great seeing Marvel finding new talent on unexpected places, and I, for one, applaud their commitment to letting their creatives express themselves freely on social media, without fear of corporate censor <cough>DC<cough>. Plus, as a collector, I couldn't be happier about the constant stream of goodies. In the past few years I've managed to amass a huge collection of #1s, something previously difficult to accomplish.

I haven't even talked about the events. I love them. Instead of dumb generic "fight the baddies" plots <cough>DC<cough>, we've gotten deep stories rooted in the real world, exploring complex issues (with poignant political and social commentary, mind you) that resonate with MY generation.

>>94908925

This. I got burnt out on Marvel due to event spam and nearly every character I liked turning to shit under said events under terrible writing and rage baiting. The poltical bullshit is just a symptom of the need for Marvel to completely restructure it's staff and hire better writers or at least pair them on projects more to their strength. Disney is probably going to clean house eventually though soon, too much contreversy.

>>94905661
>Bad
>Good
>Okay
>Good
>Canceled
>Great

>>94905924
>Been reading for 5 years

Coincidentally shorter than Marvel has been on a steady decline for.

>>94905661
They're all shit not worth a dime, this next month I'm going for another year of boycotting anything Marvel.
Or they drop that retarded fake liberal agenda or Disney will problably shut them down when the superheroes movie hype finally ends.
Bad art, retarded plots and even more retarded retcons will kill'em.
It's really sad when some people in the industry get too desperate for pussy and then they will do whatever their dyke mistress want just because there won't be a girl to shove a dildo on people like Bendis or Whedon.

I mean you just have to look at what they did to Spencer's HydraCap story. It was very suspenseful and an interesting exploration of an idea, but that wasn't good enough for them. They had to turn it into a huge boring action event instead.

There is just no vision at the top. They don't know how to make good ideas grow. They don't even know which ideas are good. They interfere when they shouldn't and don't interfere when they should. It's complete insanity.

>>94910717
Wow, this place really is /co/mblr.

>>94911060
/co/ has been really bad these few months that I can't tell if people are just larping, actual shills or are actually from tumblr.

>>94911060
That's a shitpost, anon. You can tell because even collectors hate the flood of #1s since it ultimately devalues them.

>>94906069
>>94906088
>>94906134
>ValleLator
Now there's a name I haven't heard in years.

>>94911100
99% shills and tumblr. /co/ is infested with them. This is easily the worst board on 4chan. Stick to /tv/, /pol/ and /a/ if you want unbiased opinions and the ability to make a post without getting called a bigot by the local SJW cucks and Marlel interns.

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Just posted this in another thread, but...

>Thor is a woman
Not an issue when her story is good.

The issue is when it's shit, or if the character isn't white. At least those are my issues with a lot of current Marvel.

>>94911109
I really hope that the news of the retailers dropping all the upcoming lenticular variants of Marvel Legacy titles actually hits Marvel where it needs to hit.

>>94911155
I'm sure it won't. Marvel is just too full of themselves at this point.

>>94911109
Isn't Marvel going back to original numbering tho? It astounds me that most marvel books that hit the top 10 are usually events or #1s.

>>94911205
"Original" numbering means nothing when they are implementing it like they are and counting issues that shouldn't be counted.

>>94911100
>>94911060
How retarded are you guys that you can't tell this is bait?

>>94906323

I am also an X-Men fag and I think the main problem for the X-Men is the editors.

After Morrison and M-Day (which I dont hate, I thought XMen titles were great for years until Avengers vs X-Men) Cyclops and Emma kinda became the leaders.
Now Wolverine is dead, Cyclops had a pathetic death, was considered a villain by everybody, got compared with Hitler, and Emma threw into the trashcan over 20 years of character development, and became even worse than what she was as a villain, killing Inhumans with Sentinels and becoming a crazy widow who wants to turn a teen into her exhusband.
I dont see how Marvel can think people like that. I wouldnt be against killing Cyclops and Emma (and keeping Xavier, Jean and Wolverine dead too), so a new Generation can lead the X-Men, but at least give them good heroic deaths.

The other problem is the O5, the original 5 from the past are an obstacle for every young new mutant who could become an XMan. I am sure most fans who buy comics would rather have Armor or Hellion in a team and not the O5 here. Iceman and Young Angel are completely pointless, Teen Cyclops and Teen Jean at least replace dead people, and Teen Beast can become a different Beast, like normal Beast vs Dark Beast.

Also, it seems the editors no longer care about continuity, many students who had graduated are students again, like Quentin, and Anole doesn't have anymore the body he got while being stuck one year in the future in Lemire´s run.

I think Astonishing may be the first great book we get since Spurrier's X-Men Legacy, although it is early, only 2 issues so far.

>>94911267
It's obviously bait the moment he said about #1s but the fact remains that there are too much larpers and actual sjws in /co/ making this such a shit board.

>>94911267
Even if it was bait, a significant number of the shills on /co/ ACTUALLY believe all of that.

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Let me tell you in a little more detail why I've been fed up with Marvel for the past 5+ years.

The quality of the comic books aren't good. They've put the quality of the single issue comic book at the back of the priority list when it should really come first. So the two big issues with Marvel are the creative team and the higher-ups. The higher-ups are pushing movie synergy at every chance they see, as well as pushing every ongoing to be a lot more diverse. Now a comic being more diverse isn't actually an issue. Thor is a woman atm and her comic is still great. There were black vikings in the most recent issue, and even though it made me wince, it still didn't stop the issue from being pretty good. The movie synergy can also work, like... I can't think of a reason. Maybe the Gamora comic? I don't think the synergy was why it was great though. Anyway, the point is that these examples are exceptions. These are when these dumb ideas that Marvel keep pushing actually work and they've only worked once or twice.

Secondly, the creative teams just aren't any good. They've still got Bendis at the lead writer of pretty much everything they do. He's actively harming everything he touches, like totally ruining the ending of Triumph and Torment. Bringing Dooms mother back? Making his new black Iron Girl take over Latveria by force? It's not interesting. And Marvel don't have enough decent artists, though that applies to DC too. They have 5 good ones across 50+ titles.

>>94911317
Stop making things up. I'm 99% even OP is bait, we bash Marvel all the time here and no one defends them. You just want to perpetuate the stupid /co/mblr meme that doesn't exist

>>94911301
It was bait the moment he said "misogynists"

>>94911350
>no one defends them
What fucking board are you on? /co/mblr can't stop bending over backwards to shill this garbage.

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>>94911334
They need a shake up of the most radical kind. I'm talking waking them up with an ice cold bucket of water or something. I actually don't even mind event after event. I mind that every ongoing they have has to tie-in to it for some reason instead of a cheeky wee wink or something. They need to shake up the creative teams, like totally fire Bendis or only keep him on one containment title with Maleev or Marquez. Slott has been on the Amazing Spider-Man for 7 years or something and has no desire to leave it anytime soon. Marvel are being kind to the creators, instead of the consumers and it's costing them. The entire Marvel line feels like Harley Quinn, caught in a spiral of constant mediocrity with absolutely no way out.

That doesn't mean reboot though. Reboots suck for everyone involved. Just... knock the annoying shit off. Bring talent. Make great comics.

>>94911468
They need a Johns to refocus things. Too bad they ran off everyone who might have cared to do it, Johns included.

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>>94905661
You don't understand why people hate this?

>>94911496
Why haven't they asked you and I? We're up to the challenge.

>>94911521
>Not posting the really long dialogue that praises lesbian relationships.
My (x)ude this is such a brave book about a brave star punching latinx that could do no wrong.

You know what modern Marvel needs to learn?

Tact

>>94905661

Go away Alonso

>>94905661
Stop shilling and start fixing you books, Marvel

>>94911536
A room full of like 5 anons really could do it better, it would be lewd af though

A number of their books are utter garbage (Wasp, America, Champions), but at the same time a number of their books are also pretty enjoyable (AN GotG, Spider-Man and Deadpool, Renew Your Vows). The problem here lies in the posters on /co/, we can get a thread up to 500 replies talking about a Marvel comic we all hate (see America), but storytimes and threads discussing things that we do like are either ignored or used to start some kind of lame company war. All the sjw crap that marvel has hasn't yet managed to significantly damage anything that I've been pulling, hell, even them having Moon Girl appear in Venom wasn't that bad, rather than the typical "here is this character that you love now" trope that we are usually subjected to, we were able to see the character make everything worse just by being around and then fix the problem with your typical science bull shit.

I saw people drop Renew Your Vows because they say MJ manage to defeat Venom in a fight while ignoring that their "fight" was taking place on a mental, not a physical, level, but obviously her winning was part of some kind of feminist agenda. At this point, hating Marvel is just a meme (just like hating DC during New 52 was a meme) and should ultimately be ignored. Do they have a few shit books? Yep, but they're not hurting anything that you're reading, so why is it affecting you on a personal level?

No one's buying comics anymore. They're either outright pirating comics from the interwebs, using a subscription service (which I do with Marvel Unlimited) or just watching the movies and buying number ones in some ridiculous belief that they're collectors items. So Marvel does what it has to do: Piss people off and/or pander to the SJW crowd. I don't think for a second they actually give a shit about progressive politics. It's all designed to get them in the news. Thor's a woman now! Iron Man's not as smart as this little black girl! Captain America's a nazi!
once this marketing technique dries up, they'll try something new. Comics (esp. Marvel) has been shit for a long time.
(Marvel comics reader since the early nineties)

>>94905661
One More Day
Civil War
Civil War II
Lazy editors
Spider-Verse being wasted potential
Perlmutter
(Poorly done) legacy characters
Wasting the few legacy characters done right (turning Kamala into an Avenger so early, not giving Robbie enough attention, etc)
America Chavez, Unbeatable Squirrel Girl
Political correctness shit that will backfire on them because people will forget about how old it is or how relevant it is

>>94912288
>Perlmutter

This killed the Marvel.

>>94906500
Holy shit, you just described my history with Marvel comics to a T

>>94911521
Im latin american and that book offends me.

Get rid of that writer

>>94912358
He may have saved them from bankruptcy but he killed them in spirit

>>94912288
you forgot Avengers Disassembled

honestly Bendis was the overall mistake

>>94912288
I forgot another thing
Failing to give current Carol even a single good story

>>94911396
Show proof.

>>94911396
>/co/ defends Marvel Comics
Have you seen sales or solicit threads?
Fucking hell, /co/ hates Carol so much they celebrated when she died in that episode of Death Battle.
This board calls America Chavez "The Room of comics" and immediately placed it on the storytime of pain category

>>94905924
so you havent been reading long enough to know any better.

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>>94910717

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>>94910717
This is some good pasta

>>94905661
Still waiting on that question OP

>>94912108
That's for the better, really.

>>94905734
>>94905812
>>94905805
Wow, /co/ not reading books is not a meme, who'da thunk.

>>94914156
What are you talking about? Echo did die in Bendis' Moon Knight.

>>94908925
Bendis yeah but Slott can do good books if damn editorial does there job. Look at his She Hulk and MA. First thing goes is editorial.

>>94914156
Correct me if I'm wrong, but she died in Moon Knight and recently popped up in the new Daredevil. No idea of the gap in between. Assumes it's Secret Wars to blame.

>>94906124
Because if you bothered to lurk for more than 5 minutes you'd already know

>>94906500
>So if you like current Marvel, that's good for you, but enjoy being an obnoxious and jaded shitposter 5 years from now whining about future Marvel and telling new fans to stop liking what's being put out then.
And Slott will still be freaking writing Amazing Spider-Man. Goddamn it.

>>94912160
You know what the dumbest thing about that aguement was? Peter actually helped MJ win that fight by making the symbiote weaker with his modified power draining regent tech.

People were too busy outraged despite many anons trying to point that out.

They killed their most popular team and their first family after raping their most popular character. FUCK THEM

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>>94905661
>their books have never looked cooler or more appealing before.
>All of them have a unique identity that separates them from the others, and I love that Marvel is looking for talent in the most unexpected of places

>>94911334
>>94911468
Go back to the Moat.

>>94911143
>>94911334
>>94911468
>>94911536
>>94911556
>>94914184
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?

>>94905759
Blindspot's not inhuman

>>94917186
Why haven't you? Seems you'd be more likely than them

>>94917284
>defending a tripfag
Fuck off, newfag.

>>94917284
>how to out yourself as a newfag

>>94905661
>/co/ falls for the bait again
Stahp

The worst part is that I used to love them. What the fuck, man.

Is it safe to call Marvel even worse than Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network at this point?

>>94920953
I don't know, I don't watch cartoons for little children.

No sane company, no artistically relevant company whose job is to tell decent stories, would allow a comic like America to exist. No matter what points may be made in this thread defending current Marvel, just know that they are irrelevant. America exists. Editors looked at that and thought it was okay. The higher ups think it is artistically valid. No matter what else they do, they cannot recover from that.

Go ahead. Defend them. Say, "Oh, but they're making (insert comic here)!" Doesn't matter. They still made America, and most of their quality leans toward that level of quality. If you find a diamond at the bottom of a lake of shit, you're still swimming in shit.

>>94921212
There are worse comics than America, stop being such a pansy.

>>94921248
Name one. Name one worse that Sotamayor University. Name one worse than holy menstruation. Name one worse than a teleporter getting pissy over a long distance relationship. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Also, if its another Marvel comic your point is invalid. Just saying.

>>94905661

Cause all the books on this picture are shit except Daredevil. Even them, a lot of people seem to hate this run for some reason

>>94921421
Unfunnies.

>>94905759
Not Inhuman
Not even his sidekick anymore

>>94921434
A deconstruction of funny animal comics at least has a valid artistic point. Its shit, but at least its trying. That's more than I can say for America.

>>94911136
>/tv/
>/pol/
>unbiased opinions
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>94921544
It's not a deconstruction at all though. Coyote Gospel is a cartoon deconstruction, Unfunnies is just Millar inserting edgy tropes into a cartoony world.

>>94911136
>Stick to /tv/

How about you stick in the sewer you plebbit fuck.

>>94921569
Like I said, its shit, it completely missed its mark, but at least it did have a mark. Making funny animals violent and gory is, at least, an artistically intriguing idea. What is America's idea? What is the point other than YAAS QUEEN SLAY? Fuck, what are the points of most Marvel comics lately? In the past they were fun superhero stories that sometimes had messages. Now they're just literal Tumblr blog posts put to panel with the occasional one note villain for whatever YAAS QUEEN Marvel is writing about to SLAY. Given the choice, I'd take the Unfunnies any day.

>>94906124
Several people have already told you issues they have with Marvel. >>94906120
>>94906069

>>94921720
>Making funny animals violent and gory is, at least, an artistically intriguing idea
SNo it's fucking not. Making cartoon animals violent and gory is, like, a Simpsons background joke, or something out of a satirical short comic, not the premise of a serious comic (and before you say "Millar was being satirical!!" need I remind you of the ever classic "the crow was sucking cock for a REASON" spiel?)
You sound like such a newfag it's unbelievable.

>>94922051
I know I am defending trash. I know Unfunnies is the bottom of the barrel. I just want you to know that, when I say at least about the Unfunnies, that means I know it is shit, but current Marvel is still beyond that shit. That, while Unfunnies is contemptible filth, it still has more artistic merit to exist than America or Unreadable Wasp or Angela or Champions or what the fuck ever does. That isn't me saying how great Unfunnies is. That is me saying how bad current Marvel is.

>>94922173
Holy shit, you really are a newfag, aren't you?
I hope you're thankful you're anonymous, because otherwise you'd have to live with the shame of your newfagness all of your time here.

>>94922226
Been reading comics since the mid 90s. I'm not the one defending current Marvel here, so I'm not feeling particularly shamed. Though I do have to wonder how much money you've spent on their trash lately. That would be a real shame.

>>94922295
I'm not defending shit. If you really had been reading as long as you claim, you would know Marvel got so fucking bad in the 90's, their comics became so fucking pointless and worthless, they nearly DIED. This is a goddamn fact. The idea that the shitshow that is current Marvel is somehow worse because some shitty comic hurt your alt-right fee fees is laughable.

>>94920988
>>94920953
Fucking BTFO

>>94917300
>>94917638
>thinking anyone could possibly give a fuck about being a newfag or not
you got me, but srsly guys, srsly
it's like the circle of outcasts at recess making fun of a younger kid for trying to talk to them

>>94922354
>defends a tripfag
>tries to insult others

Sad!

>>94905718
I like Blue, it's the best X book behind Gen X right now. Gold is just boring.

>>94911334
>it still didn't stop the issue from being pretty good.
You're pretty lenient.
I don't care about the black viking.
The issue wasn't bad but pretty good? Apocalyspe was just there to get destroyed, Loki cartoonishly explained his stupid plan to a woman he barely met, and Jane learning something from Thor leading the vikings in a pillaging mission felt fake.

>>94913160
>This board calls America Chavez "The Room of comics" and immediately placed it on the storytime of pain category
Can you blame them, honestly? It's so obvious.

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>>94905661
So what is the going rate these days?

>>94905805
fucking damn it i hate bendis.

>>94905661
>marvel shoehorns minorities
>marvel lets bendis kill minorities

>marvel allows bendis to kill dark beast, shit on original beast
>marvel allows bendis to create a young beast and young x-men that are shit

figure it the fuck out for yourself

>>94906040
you're an idiot. that's what's going on. it may or may not be your fault. willful stupidity can't be fixed. if you are simply a younger person that is ignorant, it can be fixed

>>94909367
>"fuck you all, I will do as a please anyway" attitude that doesn't work well in corporate circles

it does if the CEO is a piece of shit and hires piece of shit underlings. just saying.

>>94908310
i dislike DC characters very much and i'll still tell you you're full of shit. marvel is shit right now, they've been shit certainly since they hired bendis to do x-men. marvel does not have better writers, you're fucking lying to someone. either us or yourself or both. either way you're lying.

>>94910717
lol tell us how we need minorities in the comics but it's fine for the new "The Gifted" show on fox showcases.... you guessed it.. MORE WHITE PEOPLE.

fuck off you piece of shit. just in case you're being serious i'm glad clinton lost. trump is a flaming piece of shit but damn it if liberals don't deserve every fucking second of this administration

>>94905661
Listen faggot marvel stop catering to SJW, seriously you little shit.

Personally, I think Marvel has become incredibly self aware of their success with the movies and by trying to cater to that, they've really made a mess of the universe. Once the first Avengers hit, it seemed like there was a paradigm shift and a lot of things were being cancelled to make room for titles or shows that carried MCU dynamics.

Also the event storylines have been really lame, how many more times can super heroes fight one another? Avengers vs X-men was the beginning, but what really salted the earth for me was the continued shit treatment that the X-men was and have been given (can't imagine how much it sucks to be an Fantastic Four fan...) and the clear bias for the Avengers. You partner that with Marvel deciding to become more pop culture oriented and hyper-relevant and it's just a shit show. And that's not even in regards to roster changes and the growing diversity. Its Marvel being lazy and not bothering to write compelling stories for their characters, they'd rather paint by the numbers and piggyback off their film franchises.

And anyone could take a shit in some tinfoil, wrap it up and spray paint it gold, but it's still a piece of shit no matter how pretty you make it. The comics covers and inside art could be a modern master piece, doesn't help if the story is garbage.

>>94906134
>How involved is Disney with this end of of Marvel now?
100% completely uninvolved. Disney is very hands-off with most of it's child companies. It only took direct action in regards to the movies because Kevin Feige begged it to.
Marvel Entertainment is steering it's own ship.

>>94917300
>>94917638
I've literally been shitpoting on /co/ since 2010. You're a newfag for even giving me attention, retars x

>>94912777
He was a necessary short-term solution that became a severe long-term problem

>>94921421
I'd argue Marville, but it's close.

>>94923320
I wasn't

>>94922051

Unfunnies is still better than America. Although the horror of America is intriguing in the same way watching a train crash is intriguing.

>>94913160
But The Room is actually enjoyable. This is Manos Hands of Fate of /co/

>>94926585
Fuck off newfag please go back to pol

>>94910717
Its like a Tumblr post has come to life...

If this isn't a troll...and please, dear God, let someone this retarded be a troll...then tell me, how are hollow minority characters with zero personality beyond being a minority helping anything? What audience are they bringing in? Look at the sales figures. Unstoppable Wasp almost brought in four figures. How is that resonating with anyone?

>>94905661
The only way you could have a positive opinion of post-Superior Slott is if you've never read a well crafted comic. His dialogue and choreography is awful.

>>94923602
>marvel does not have better writers

>Cates
>Ewing
>Brisson
>Rosenberg
>Aaron
>Spencer
>Thompson
>Duggan
>Hastings

vs

>Jurgens
>Humphries
>Venditti
>Williamson
>Seeley
>Orlando
>Tynion
>Bennett

Marvel has better writers and it's not even a contest.

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>>94931366
Oh fucking c'mon
Even if you go full Poe's Law with most of that post, there is no fucking way
>Plus, as a collector, I couldn't be happier about the constant stream of goodies. In the past few years I've managed to amass a huge collection of #1s, something previously difficult to accomplish.
could ever make you think this is legitimate. Anyone who thinks for even a moment that this isn't extremely obvious bait is a dipshit.

>>94933570
Do you really think, in the world that we live in, that it is impossible that someone is this retarded? After all, we are in a thread about how people keep willingly giving Marvel money month after month despite the fact that 90% of their current books are complete shit. You're telling me that there is no chance at least one person loves the idea of new number ones every few months? Well you have more faith in humanity than I do.

>>94922958
The best X book behind Gen X is All-New Wolverine neck and neck with OML. Blue is tragically down the roster.

>>94934447
Someone who does wouldn't write like that, though.

>>94934447
Really mate just look at that post, and take everything in reverse. Read it like you'd read Bizarro.
>increased focus on diversity
>current new "talent"
>social media posting
>constant reboots
>constant events
It's literally a post taking every criticism thrown at Marvel except for variant covers, and then just praising them for it instead of insulting them.

>>94905661

The real reason is that all their best writers got brain-drained to Image where they are making more money getting to come up with their own ideas. As any writer worth their salt should do. I love Marvel/DC characters, but working for the big 2 should be a way to build your brand and move to creator-owned work, not the other way around. Unfortunately, Marvel and DC just aren't getting new writers who are actually any good. (DC's doing a bit better, but they've already been to the bottom of the creative barrel about 5 years ago and are slowly climbing out.)

The other fix would be to hire proven, great creators from years past who are between sweet gigs right now to help raise their profile. Priest is doing great on Deathstroke, but, man, I wish Tom Peyer, Karl Kesel, Alan Brennert and John Ostrander had monthly Big 2 titles right now.

>>94937978

I should add, a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere will blame it on "hurrr muh SJW pandering" but the difference between organic character changes and new cast members (witness: everyone loves Jessica Cruz GL) and America Chavez is purely good writing or lack thereof.

>>94938067
If it is good writing, it isn't SJW pandering. Pretty much every comic writer leans left. That isn't a problem, so long as they can still tell a good story.

Honestly asking, are any writers or artists that are working for Marvel realize that Marvel is shit right now?

>>94939039
I'm sure some do, but they're smart enough not to shit-talk their employer publicly.

>>94938290
If you can tell a good story, your leanings shouldn't be an issue. Chuck Dixon's as right-wing as they come, but he didn't try to turn Batman or his cast into gun supporters because that wouldn't have made any goddamn sense. Gene Yang and Priest are both devout Christians, but they don't shove it down readers' throats (unless you count a couple of minor DS characters being religious), and they're writing 2 of DC's best books.

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>>94905661
>Honest question. I think their books have never looked cooler or more appealing before.

KEK! Then that's your problem. Not mine

>>94937978
>The real reason is that all their best writers got brain-drained to Image where they are making more money getting to come up with their own ideas
80% of Image is still crap though.

>>94940138
No argument but all the A-list writers who were at Marvel a few years ago are now at Image with money and prestige. Bendis is going down with the good ship Marlel.

>>94905924
>I've been reading for 5 years and yes I have read comics older than 10 years.
So you werent around /not invested enough for the times when Marvel shit on their fanbase (One more day, AvX, Cyclops_is_literally_Hitler) in the name of cheap publicity, BENDIS got to shit on beloved characters because he doesnt like them (Avengers Dissasembled, AvX, and many more), and you are not invested enough to see the problem with replacing classic superheroes with hit or miss minority characters, with no buildup and sometimes not even enough of a proper backstory to make them interesting (Miles, Riri, and so on).

No wonder you feel current Marvel is good enough, you are still in the honeymoon phase, and havent seen your favorite characters, the ones you invest time and attention, get shit on for sales or agenda pushes.

>>94940743
now, this is not to say everything Marvel does is bad or shit. Some of the stuff is actually ..... lets say "not bad", or "good enough". I am actually enjoying Gwenpool, Ultimates, and some of the X-men comics (i dont want to say "gold is good", or " blue is okay"... Gold feels innofensive and Blue is becoming aimless real quick. Cable sems promising but felt weak at first. Kamala started decent but now is boring, and FemThor... im gonna be honest, i have no opinion on her, i never read Thor comics and couldnt care less if its good or not, I dont like it, I dont read it, no point to REEE on it.

>>94940909
See, its interesting everyone keeps bringing up X-Men as the, no pun intended, gold standard for current Marvel. And maybe it is good. But I can't read it. I can't get past IVX. I can't get past the devaluing of mutants for years because of corporate bickering. I can't get past Scott getting shit on. I can't get past AVX. I can't get past Schism. I can't get past no more mutants. Maybe I could have gotten past a few of those things. But all of them? Like, no matter how good current X-Men might be, I can see through it now. Its not about the characters or the story or the legacy. They will turn classic characters gay just to fit an agenda, even if it makes no sense. They will turn heroes evil because they can't think of anything better to do. They will shitcan everything if they think they can turn a profit elsewhere.

And its not just X-Men, its everything. Marvel, right now, is like They Live. I've got the glasses, and I can see what they're really like. How can I ever get past that with the people working there now and trust them to tell me a good story again?

>>94933306
Nice joke faggot, convenient how you forgot to include Christopher Priest, Ton King, Grant Morrison, Frank Miller, Mark Russell, and Gerard Way

>>94941838
This faggot agrees with you.

>>94941838
Probably because
>Priest
Not DC exclusive, is currently working on as many DC titles as he is Marvel titles.
>King
Fair point except his batman is awful and his best work is by far Vision so that's still a victory for Marvel
>Grant Morrison
Yes, he announced a few OGNs that will maybe get done in 2 year or something. Also he's an old dog with not much creativity left, time to move over
>Fran Miller
>in 2017

>Russell
Not exclusive and not as good as his few fans think

>Way
Being an emo in 2017 should be punished by bullets.

>>94941965
>is currently working on as many DC titles as he is Marvel titles.

Sounds like he has another DC one coming: https://twitter.com/Alex_Antone/status/892925477811138560

>and his best work is by far Vision so that's still a victory for Marvel

so you didn't read Sheriff?

>OGNs don't count? and no he's still good
>fair
>doesn't have to be exclusive, he is still working at DC
>rude tbqh, Way is good

>>94942142
>Sounds like he has another DC one coming
That's just empty words, he msot likely does not have anything coming up

>so you didn't read Sheriff?'
It's good but kind of boring. Not as good as Vision.

>OGNs that might never come? Yeah they don't count

>barely

>not rude, just honest

>>94905661
I wish I could hold your fucking head in a wood chipper you Disney cock sucking faggot

>>94940743
>eplacing classic superheroes with hit or miss minority characters, with no buildup and sometimes not even enough of a proper backstory to make them interesting
This is a huge problem. Most people are okay with Dick or Damian replacing Bruce as Batman, provided there is enough story to make sense of it. Or Rhodey / Tony Stark, or Steve Rogers and Bucky... some people are going to complain, but you will always have contrarians, the mayority is okay with legacy characters if they are introduced/built properly.
Thats the reason why Kamala is accepted but Miles isnt: She is doing her own thing while being a Carolfag, Miles struggles to be his own character with his own problems. Riri is being pushed hard with no buildup and tos of crossovers with other Marvel heroes.

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You know how to fix Marvel? Bring Jim Shooter(Guy in pic) back. Pay him what he wants to fix this shit.

>>94942693
Right, because Valiant is doing sooo well right now.

>>94942693
The guy who tanked the Legion threeboot? Pass.