'Wonder Woman' Director SLAMS James Cameron: You Don't

>>94889529
She's right
Wonder Woman is a hero, she's an archetype, you can't compare her to Sarah Conner, she's someone you aspiring to be.
It's like someone trying to make Superman a broken damaged character, it doesn't work

>>94889529

She's got a point. You can't be pretty AND a badass? Bullshit. Especially in a superhero movie.

>caring about the opinions of James 3DCameraman

>>94889529
>adding that it's unsurprising because he's "not a woman".
It's ok when women do it!

>>94889529
She's 100% right though

>I'm more feminist than wonder woman guys!!
Someone will defend this but I can't figure out who

>>94889536
Somewhere, Zack Snyder just got angry and he doesn't know why

>>94889529
She's right, James Cameron is infamous for being a dick to everyone while filming. Also James, when is Avatar 2 coming out yet?

>>94889529
>female characters need to be male characters played by female actors
wew lad Jimmy, wew

>>94889529
Go back to >>>/tv/ and stay there.

>>94889529
When it comes to wonder woman she's supposed to be both.
Wonder woman is like superman in that regard.

you can't be right if your argument core is "you aren't a woman my imaginary laws says it's wrong to listen to you". It's just a fact.

>>94889529
>She’s an objectified icon
Cameron has literally no idea what he's talking about. Not often do I entirely agree with a smug article.

>>94889529
>the only way to do a good female character is to make her an awful woman
That's dumb even for someone who gets paid to rip off Ferngully

Both WW and Sarah Connor are terrible characters.

What if it had been one of the Wachowskis instead?

>>94889529
>You can't understand my movie because you're just a man
Hey look they're both cunts.

>>94889616
She has a right to be smug, she pretty much flung Wonder Woman into mainstream relevantly while making it good.

>>94889529
Cameron hasn't done a good movie in YEARS, Jenkins knocked it the fuck out of the park with WW. She has all the right to brush off criticism of a half-wit who thinks world needs Avatar sequels.

>>94889655
>She has a right to be smug
No she doesn't. No one does.

>>94889529
wtf i hate Wonder Over Yonder now

>>94889575
kek

>>94889529
WTF I hate wonder woman (2017) now
Also like james cameron less, wonder woman was fantastic

>>94889536
True.
But to try and say cameron does not get it because of his gender is a shitty thing to do.

>>94889655
She has a right to be smug
She has no right to say somebody can't understand something because of their gender

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>>94889540
Getting mixed messages here. As usual.

Besides, Sarah Connor WAS just a girlie girl in Terminator 1. It's obvious she wasn't able to keep up with fashion too much while thinking about inevitable Judgement Day in funhouse.

https://youtu.be/e__f4DkOo4A

Have to side with Jenkins on this one. The character is a flashy and colorful superhero who deflects bullets with wrist bands, oh and she was created by a perverted married couple who loved the hell out of bondage. Trying to make Wonder Woman "serious" is the exact wrong approach.

>>94889529
If James Cameron had made the exact same Wonder Woman, these clickbait websites would have no trouble making the same charge against him.

That said, still a dick move on Cameron's part. It's okay to say you didn't like a movie without bringing in sociopolitics every damn time.

>>94889735
>Getting mixed messages here

How so? Jim's saying you can't specifically be certain things in order to be badass. Which is false, you can be bad ass in numerous ways.

>Besides, Sarah Connor WAS just a girlie girl in Terminator

And she wasn't a badass in T1, she was a damsel in distress.

>>94889644
Then Patty would be a piece of shit for making fun of mentally impaired people.

>>94889771
>And she wasn't a badass in T1, she was a damsel in distress.
She was the one who destroyed the Terminator in the end though.

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>>94889771
These people straight up hate curvy, beautiful, wholesome looking character. Even though writing wise Wonder Woman's portrayal was decent, Gal Gadot is still physically unimpressive and isn't up for the role.

This is an approved female character design by Anita, look at this shit.

And let me tell you, Sarah Connor was pretty badass in T1, she was just a normal girl whose entire world changed in matter of hours and now she has buff Austrian bodybuilder wanting her dead. And she wasn't just whining how it's not fair, she just wanted to stay alive for her sake and her future child's.

Saying she wasn't badass in Terminator 1 is you actually shortening ways a character can be bad ass.

And bad ass is a cancerous term in the first place

Like, imagine if T-800 wasn't Arnold Schwarzenegger but fucking Michael Sera. That's what Gal Gadot's cast looks like to me.

>>94889794
I'm with (you) anon.
T1 was about the transformation of Sarah into a badass.

>>94889529
>James Cameron, who has been known to write one-dimensional female characters
What?

>>94889576
>a dick to everyone while filming
equal opportunity

>>94889529
>Female director of feminist icon says it's okay to objectify women
Based Patty. I'm going to bring this up anytime a woman gives me shit for staring at her titties.
Women want you to see them as objects.

>>94889819
What's up with those yellow nipples?

>>94889576
>James Cameron is infamous for being a dick to everyone while filming.
My god, it's almost as if being a dick to people and getting movie done due to budget/time constraints is something you can't be a director without! I wonder if it paid of for James, hm...

>>94889529
>but if women have to always be hard, tough, and troubled to be strong we aren't free to be multidimensional

She is totally speaking out her ass.
or she is a shitty writer, and knows nothing about how women are recieved and interpreted when telling a story.

heres a clue.
when writing a women character.
the assumption is always that she is "strong".
THey are assumed to be a force, if not of themselves then a force of nature.

Everyone sounds like a bitch on social media though.

>>94889794
Which made her a survivor who then becomes badass for T2

>>94889902
Dude, do you not see how her fighting against T-800 with Kyle without any fighting training, let alone military training, is badass in itself?

Do you not see how you saying she became a badass only in T2 is you assuming that T2 Sarah is only way a character can be badass?

Sarah was hella cool in T1. She was scared, but she didn't back away from doing what needed to be done.

>>94889819
>tfw I played Sword and Sworcery two years before Anita even heard of it and now every other dumb cunt hates that game just because she said some positive things about it

>>94889937
I am not hating on the game.

>>94889902
A survivor is "A Badass". Whether it be Ripley, Dutch, or Sarah they were placed in extraordinary situations that many people have died in and not only survived but became stronger for it. The effects are clearly seen in the epilogue for T1.

>>94889529

Can I hate them both?

>>94889923

I suppose I tend to think of a character being more proactive, confident and feeling in charge of situations rather than primarily acting defensive when defining a badass. That's why to me Sarah's more of formidable survivor on her way to transitioning from a victim to a complete full formed badass..

For me. I'm an anti-feminist and I respect Cameron but he's not making a very clear argument here.

I just don't exactly understand what he's complaining about. So I think he's wrong but the Wonder Woman director's response is bad too. She's made 1 good movie so I think she should've shown more respect to Cameron's opinion.

>>94889988
See, don't preach about different ways of being a badass when you yourself seem to have only one.

To me a character who is afraid but is still able to jump into action is just as badass as character who actively jumps into.

Mrs. Brisby is quintessential character of that way for a character to be badass, she is tough as hell.

>>94889529
>A female is only good if she represents the best traits and unrealistically discards all her flaws
Patty is retarded. She's basically saying unrealistic females are the only badass characters.

James Cameron is a hack anyway..

>>94889980
They're both shitty directors, so yes.

>>94889529
Well, she's right.

That said Cameron is right about WW being mediocre. It doesn't deserve all the praise because in reality, strong female protagonist or not, it's a 6/10 movie at best.

>>94889861
I like most of Cameron's films, but the other anon's correct; he is a bit of a dick. He's a perfectionist and a control freak who pushes everyone hard to reach the exact vision he imagines. For example, his wish to get a realistic performance almost made the main actor drown during the filming of "The Abyss". There are tons of nasty tales about Cameron, a lot of actors and other film people have said that he's very difficult and exhausting to deal with. Some of them have worked with him once and made a decision to never work with him again after that.

The other side of the issue is that a lot of the time he is right, and the vision he imagines is actually something worth pursuing. When he's given free hands, he can do some amazing stuff. That's why I'm pretty conflicted about the stuff he says in the OP. Cameron is pointing at his own characters and praising them as examples of how things should be done, which looks just shamelessly egoistic. But on the other hand he's also got a point; he seems to be the only one in Hollywood who's consistently making stories that have entertaining and interesting action women.

>>94890019
You're retarded. She at no point says this. She says women should be able to be any kind of character.

>>94889529
>because he's "not a woman"
Shut the fuck up you entitled uppercrust feminist bitch

>>94889536
Actually it works perfectly fine.
A perfect Mary sue isn't aspire worthy because it's impossible.
Aspiring to be what you are a flawed person but one who overcomes & does great things anyway is inspiration worthy.

>>94889848
A character being beautiful isn't objectification.

>>94890084
Tell that to Zod's snapped neck

>>94890079
She implies that he's wrong because his example is terrible and it should be moved beyond that for "progress" boring shallow women like her version of WW are the way to that ideal in her mind.

>>94889529
>tfw you agree with the WW director and not the fucking hack who faps to Smurfs

>>94890083
>Cameron starts with the sociopolitics trash
Kys

>Cameron is the best blockbuster director
>Jenkins is the best capeshit director
Damn, Jenkins is right in this though, a female character should be able to be good looking and effective at the same time

>You can't be pretty AND a badass?

I'm reminded of all the Metroid fans who shat blood when high heels were added to Samus' zero suit.

>>94890172
Because it's Other M trash and Sakurai is pandering to non-fans?

>>94889536
>It's like someone trying to make Superman a broken damaged character, it doesn't work
Because it's Superman, whereas arguably DC's most popular character BAT-MOTHERFUCKING-MAN is the definition of a broken man.
What about Marvel's most popular character? There's no way that Peter Parker could be incredibly fla- oh wait, no, he totally is.

>>94890161
I mean, Wonder Woman is literally daughter of a god and Cameron's characters are just people.

Ripley doesn't get a lot of chances to put makeup on with aliens wanting to eat her.

>>94890073
>For example, his wish to get a realistic performance almost made the main actor drown during the filming of "The Abyss"
That's not even as bad as to what happened on deadpool 2. Jim is a diver so it's not like he's is tell someone to do something he's never done.

>>94890161
Both Ripley and Sarah Conner are extremely attractive though. Even more attractive than Gal Gadot

>>94890019
She doesn't say there's anything wrong with Sarah Connor's character at all. She criticises Cameron for saying that that is the only way to portray a strong female character.

>>94890119
>>94890197

>>94890194
>tfw even lucy lawless now would be better for the roll then what gal gadot is.

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>>94890225
Have you seen her in Spartacus?

I would smash mommy any day over Gal.

>>94890172
You can be pretty and pratical. High heels are neither.

>>94890259
Spartacus is fairly old by now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hddYB-FbD5M

>everyone suddenly calling WW a masterpiece
It was 7/10 at best. The beginning and middle were pretty good - Gadot was okay and Captain Kirk was good. The final act was a mess, though. The fight with Ares was dumb and the ending didn't match up with her motivations in BvS. For her to hide away from the world (espevially throughout WW2) after nothing bad really happened to her seems out of character. She should've lost more at the end of the movie. Like, her entire team should've died or something.

But wonder woman was created by men tho all that feminist bullshit was added way later

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>>94890259
>Have you seen her in Spartacus?
I preferred her in Ash Vs.
Also I'd totally biddly bing bong bop the guido masquerading as a Jewish Princess.

>>94890348
Wonder Woman was literally her creator's weird BDSM femdom fetish. Everything about that "loving submission" thing was part of his thesis about the benefits a female dominated world and power dynamics involving people submitting to each other as some kind of kinky trust exercise. A wacky feminist, but a feminist nothing else.

>>94890380
Hot.

>>94890348

She was always a feminist character. She was designed to be a role model for girls.

>>94890437
>She was designed to be fapbait for her creator.
Fixed that for you, friend
Don't worry about it, guy
No need to thank me, buddy

>>94889529
What does Wonder Woman mean to women all around the world? That if you are born with superpowers you can do things normal people can't do?

Sorry I am a man so I don't understand

>>94889529
She's right but there was no reason for her to bring her critics gender into it

>>94890626
This.

>>94889529
>James Cameron getting BTFO
Today is a good day.

>>94890172
They were stupid. I disliked them because they looked ridiculous and were less attractive than the normal zero suit.

>>94890355
No way, she tooked rough in season 2.

People over the age of ten should not be looking up to superheroes.

>>94890692
Why not?

>>94889529
James Cameron only understands and cares about the ocean. He's aquasexual.

>>94890701
You have to mature and have better, "adult" role models like Peter Griffin and PICKLE RICK!

>>94890701
Because they're not real. They never existed. They never actually achieved anything or did anything to genuinely affect the world.

>"Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon," Cameron said
That's a petty thing to say about your ex-wife.
I remember reading this clown's terrible Spider-Man movie script, he's just jealous.

>>94890191
Not to eat insensitive, but it kind of is? Stunt performers sign up knowing that there is a non zero percent chance of things fucking up and them getting hurt or killed, regardless of precautions.

Drowning a guy because he isn't acting wet enough goes a bit beyond that.

>>94890738
I'm not seeing the issue.

>>94889888

No she has a point. People are incredibly centrist these days and demand male and female characters to fit their narrow ass politics/personal ideas/self insert criteria. 9 times out of ten it's either bitching a female character isn't feniminist or fetish enough.

>>94890816
>People are incredibly centrist these days
Do you not know what centrist means?

>>94890845
The centre has been pushed to the left, especially in Europe.

>>94889529
>another DC hack who can't handle the fact that no one likes their shifty movie
Pathetic like I know this is the best you can get DC but at least TRY to make them act professional

>>94889529
Sarah Connor was a good female lead, she was badass because she needed to be. Wonder Woman was "I'm awesome because I'm a woman".

Wonder Woman is pretty overrated as a movie. I kept waiting for it to really grab me, and then the end credits showed up, so.

>>94890845

Centrist in the definition of self centered or selfish. Doesn't change my point though.

>>94889529
isn't that pretty sexist?

>>94889536
>Wonder Woman is a hero, she's an archetype, you can't compare her to Sarah Conner,

You're right in that she is an archetype, the comparison is difficult between a member of DC's pantheon and a mere mortal.

But the problem is the archetype here is "problematic" from a feminist viewpoint. You couldn't dismiss, say, the God of Rape as being "he is what he is", again you're right but it doesn't change the fact that this character would be fundamentally offensive. WW as a feminist icon is a shitty feminist icon, you put a *supermodel* in a short skirt and think you've won a battle of the sexes.

Not like this is the first time feminism was self-contradictory, and it wont be the last.

Give it up, Cameron, the modern regressive movement is built upon the *need* to improve social justice from the Dark Ages of the 1990s, no previous advancements can be acknowledged. Wonder Woman is the first female action hero, don't you dare bring up Ellen Ripley or Sarah Conner or Jovavich's Leloo/Alice or The Bride or Katniss or Selene from all those Underworld movies or Furiosa or Trinity or Buffy....

>>94889529
Where are all these women that really want to be badass in real life and look up to fictional strong female characters?

>>94890895
I'm not sure that word works like that. Self-centered is what you're looking for. Centrist just means someone who specifically takes the central position between two other political ones, and traditionally has meant a specific intention towards a centered position rather than just happening to land there. Even these days, centrists wouldn't try to push a specific, narrow definition of a character archtype since the point would be to try and compromise between two other archtypes, usually encapsulating both.

>>94890891
She was awesome because she was awesome. That's the point I think Jenkins is getting at. There shouldn't need to be a special prerequisite for a female character to be badass.

>>94890921

Then I stand corrected and use Self centered next time to avoid confusion.

I love how this pretty much makes conflict a certainty. Women apparently can understand men perfectly, but men just cannot grasp the ineffable nature of a woman.

If this is the case, then conflict will arise.

>>94890904

I don't think Cameron made a particularly strong argument, what he says is little more than a complaint than providing any substance to debate.

But the unsaid bits are, presumably, a grumpy old man being pissed (and rightfully so) that his elevation of not one but two female action heroes in the 1980s is being swept under the rug to fit the current social justice narrative. Cameron did it first, did it *better*, and now a supermodel is being held up as a feminist rolemodel because acknowledging the work of a *white male* in the 80s cannot be allowed.

I'd be pissy too if all the hard work I'd done through my career was tossed away so casually, but the very people I was doing the work for. The praise for Wonder Woman (as being revolutionary) from third-wave regressive feminists is a slap in the face for 60s-00s second-wave progressive feminists. "thanks for all the support, we'll take from here, and oh, you're now the enemy btw"

>>94890852
>centre has been pushed to the left
left means anti-capitalist, not anti-racist/sexist, despite what us "leftists" has you believe

/ourgal/

Avatar fucking sucks.

>>94889687
>>94889691
It's true you fag.

>>94890902
You can't be sexist against men! Only men think that!

>>94890973
That's part of it as well.

>>94890968

But they'll never take his accomplishment or his characters away no matter how fucked politics are now. Ripley and Sarah will always be considered top tier in by the mainstream

>>94890968
I know Cameron is a perfectionist with reshoots and things like Avatar was his dumb, 12 year old brain child, but how much work did he himself put into the actual characters? Surely that's more on the scriptwriters and actresses?

>>94891067
He was the one who suggested the military exercises or whatever the fuck he had them do, and required reading of Starship trooper for the Marines in Aliens iirc.

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>>94889529
His names James (James!) Cameron! ~
The bravest pioneer! ~
No budget too steep ~
No ocean too deep ~
Who's that? (It's him!) James Cam-er-oooon! ~

>>94891057
Remember all those articles about how Wonder Woman was the first independent female action hero ever?

Yeah, that's the mainstream.

>>94889529
The "You're not *insert minority/classification*" is stupid, but I agree with her entirely. Cameron is basing his criticism simply on what he wouldn't do, yet shoves progression in it instead of just saying "I didn't like it." It's like bitching about Buckaroo Banzai because he was too perfect when that was part of the point.

>>94889529
based on the picture, she emphasizes a lot of respect for Cameron as a filmmaker. The article is the one trying to stir some shit.

Hell, even the quotes they used for Cameron says he didn't dislike the film, but disliked the concept of the character.

>>94891181
Diana's original origin as someone created by the Greek Goddesses I have no problem with;
Her being reduced to Zeus' secret weapon completely invalidates her as a feminist anything.

>>94889575
Fortykeeks and kudos Anon

>>94889536
>It's like someone trying to make Superman a broken damaged character, it doesn't work
And yet it keeps happening.

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I'd argue that given her origins in the film, she's roughly as suitable a choice for a feminist icon as pic related.

>>94891181
>The article is the one trying to stir some shit.
Based on what we've seen the last few days, it shouldn't surprise anyone. MCU fanboys give a lot of clicks

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>"And the massive female audience who made the film a hit a hit it is, can surely choose and judge their own icons of progress."

This is ironic, because the character was created by a man to express his own dominance fetishes, and was pushed as a "symbol of feminism" by male comic book writers.

She's not an icon of progress, she's an archaic, one-dimensional trope.

>>94889529
I never liked what Cameron did to Ripley anyway, fuck him and his views on women.

>>94890973
>us "leftists"
Nice try nazi

>>94891406
I unironically believe that the current american "left" is the result of a conspiracy by the rich -through the media and unis they control via their funds- to switch the direction of the inherent rebelliousness of several groups, especially the youth, from fighting the rich and wealth/class inequality to stupid issues like diversity in fiction, whether halloween costumes are appropriation and so on.

>>94889529
C+
This is good, but you forgot to mention that he is white, made more money than Jenkins and turned Jamie Lee Curtis into a stripper in True Lies. Please review your SJW handbook for the next writing assignment.

>>94891432
This.
They can't have Occupy Wall Street type shenanigans catch on, or have poorz shift the blame for their lack of prosperity from illegals to the guys purchasing 300' yachts with their Big Market Gainz.

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I still don't understand why media chose Wonder Woman to represent feminism. I'm going to guess it's because she's "the most well known female superhero", except I think the amount of attention she's gotten from women's groups might be what made her the most well known.

This character was written originally be men and illustrated by men. Her powers included bondage and getting into sexy poses when she needed to deflect bullets (because you literally cannot give her the ability to be hit by bullets, that isn't sexy) her costume, even at the time, was viewed as pretty risque and her original weakness was being tied up (some villains would spank her afterward). She is for real, like, the least feminist heroine who has ever existed. Most of her really "feminist" comics are from this last decade, in fact. Why the fuck is anyone rallying behind her? She shouldn't be an icon and I get the feeling she only is because it's literally the only female character people know from DC.

There are better choices, for fucks sake.

>>94891313
>unga bunga me no like when people like stuff me no like
>me make point based on revised history
>????
>me win internet argument, me validated

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>>94891466
>Most of her really "feminist" comics are from this last decade
If snapping necks and hacking people with swords is considered an exemplar of all that is feminine, sure.

Modern comics Wonder Woman has been reduced to "Someone's violent super-girlfriend".

>>94889529
>Superman
Typical male fantasy of an overpowered character who is too indestructible and boring to be interesting.
>Wonder Woman
A feminist icon for all women to look up to as an inspiring hero.

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>>94891471
Movie Harley Quinn is more empowering to women really, as she's a female action hero who's not obligated to be stridently earnest or the "mom figure" (Black Widow is both), and instead gets to have lighthearted shenanigans usually relegated to male characters.

>>94891462
You fail to understand that the rich are also the ones pushing for more immigration, lower pay, etc as well to further cement their position and to destroy societal and national identities which could resist. They're playing both sides here; both the left and right economically are correct; globalist corporatism is the true enemy.

Which also describes Cameron's female action heroes, all stridently earnest, mom-figures who are dull exemplars of tireless bravery.

Halle Berry Storm: Dull team mom
Black Widow: Dull team mom
Sue Richards: Dull team mom

"Girls are allowed to participated in Superhero stuff, but only if they promise not to have fun."

>>94891592
Damn my dude can you strawman any harder?

>>94891590
I never claimed they weren't playing both sides; but the true national identity of America is that of immigrants arriving, working hard, bettering their descendants lives. It isn't some sort of Aryan shitlording.

>>94889665
>Jenkins knocked it the fuck out of the park with WW
Wonder Woman was mediocre as fuck

Why bring in gender?

Just say he is a talentless hack that knows how to get normies to watch shitty movies.

>>94891313
Dumb /tv/ casual, Marston's idea of feminism was quite literally to be tied down and sexually dominated by women. Fuck off back to you containment board and never come here.

>>94890946
Transgender much Patty?

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>>94891605
Well, let's see how JL turns out, and if it doesn't turn into Aquadood, Geek-Flash and Cychad all larking about, with Diana clucking at how silly "the boys" are.

Because I can guarantee that will be the case.

>>94889529
This more has to do with Hollywood not getting superheroes. A LOT of very good directors say the same thing about Superman being one note because they have no fucking idea of what to do with someone who's just good.

>>94891631
I never claimed Marston was pushing dominant/submissive shit one direction or another, just that he was obsessed with it.
So go fuck yourself, autist.

>>94890904
I love how much True Feminism involves people telling a woman how to dress.

>>94890874
lots of people liked wonder woman

>>94891611
Actually the true nature of America is English Radicalism and Common Law.

>>94891626
>Why bring in gender?
Because it's relevant? Cameron has no perspective here, what authority does he have to make such a broad claim? A movie he made in the 90s? If he was a women, he would have some perspective but he isn't. That's not to say no men can say authoritatively but Cameron isn't a social anthropologist or psychoanalyst who specializes in women's psyche, he should've only talked about how he felt without trying to make his statement profound sounding.

>>94891466
Muh trinity

>>94891715
>but Cameron isn't a social anthropologist or psychoanalyst who specializes in women's psyche
Neither is Jenkins.

>>94889529
My only concern in his is she's going to start thinking that she's the sole reason Wonder Woman came out as good as it did. When all talk was that if it wasn't for Pine acting as "Set Dad" then it would have spiraled into a shitshow.

>>94889644
What if it had been the pope?
What if tomorrow it starts raining gummy worms?
What if an entirely hypothetical situation had happened instead of what's actually happened?

>>94891692
At the very start, yes.
But opportunism and immigration is what shaped it into what it's become.

>>94889536
>>94889529
Wondy and now Patty's reply here is oddly breaking standard for me. I genuinely agree with her (very specific) point. Now, I don't think it's because he's not a woman, but it's more his view of a female protagonist.

Cameron basically said "how can she be a strong independant woman if she isn't a strong independant woman?" Which completely misses the point that she isn't a strong independant woman (SIW) and that the SIW meme is not a thing to aspire for (while also basically saying she's too pretty in the movie).

Implying that a woman needs to look like Charlize in Monster also proves that he thinks vanity equals weakness.Now, coming from a visual short-hand, Hollywood-movie background it makes absolute sense. But that can't be seen as the end all be all. Hollywood's made decades of shitty movies as well as some good ones.

"Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon," Cameron said. "She was strong, she was troubled, she was a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the audience through pure grit."

Literally "muh stronk womyn is stronker than your actually stronker womyn. And my womyn with no powers is more relatable than your womyn with powers. And my pretty actress stronk girl had less make up than their pretty actress stronk girl."

Anybody that likes Sarah Conner is lying. There's nothing interesting about her. And that ISN'T to say Wondy is MORE interesting. It's to say why call something that isn't perfect better than something that isn't perfect just because it's made by a director who has a better back catalogue than the second director.

>>94891734
DCEU killed their Tony Stark in WWI.

>>94891655
So as it stands Marston's female stood as sexually liberated females in the zeitgeist of world war and depression, which scholars have noted was a very progressive take when it comes to not only pulp strips and fiction but as a societal view on these subjects, and your uneducated arguments are literally of no value here, but I should fuck off for correctly pointing out your shit?

>>94891466
>(some villains would spank her afterward)
post pics

>>94889691
>>94889700
Come on you guys, you really gonna say that Cameron knows firsthand what it's like to be a women? Because that's all Patty is saying folks, Cameron can't speak for what women need because he ain't a women.

>>94889575
So you think I got an evil mind, well I'll tell you honey

>>94891732
>Neither is Jenkins.
Aside from the fact that she's a female and she directed a movie that spoke to a very large female audience of current times? Nice try but I hope you can do better.

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>>94891763
Sarah Conner was actually played with some intensity by an actress who bothered to get fit to represent a rugged survivalist.

Wonder Woman is portrayed by a beauty pageant contestant in a rubber suit with empty boobage.

>>94891313
t.illiterate /pol/tard

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>>94891772
>>94891768
Yup, here she is, being totally sexually liberated.

>>94891626
this: >>94891715

He basically said the fake woman I created is better and more real than the fake woman this woman created.

You may think your Charlie Chaplin impression is better, but he never should have lost that contest.

>>94891732
But she's a woman. and in this particular conversation that's really what matters. It's the flip side of a woman saying "this is what REAL men are" while listing meme characteristics.

>>94891432
this is true

>>94891807
DCshill harder.

>>94890464
Marston would say being a prude is an example of how the patriarchy suppressed women's sexuality, literally he has a sketch that shows wonder women breaking the chains of patriarchy with prudery being one of them.

>>94889529
Wonder Woman was a subpar boilerplate capeshit movie with pretty low production values that managed to make a ton of cash by being slightly less shit than everything else besides Dunkirk that came out this summer.

James Cameron has shifted the paradigm of filmmaking multiple times over a career that will undoubtedly go down as the most successful in the history of the medium, and he got to that point from sleeping rough in his car and begging Roger Corman to let him sweep the floors at his B-movie studio, because after seeing Star Wars he decided to quit being a truck driver and try and make it in Hollywood.

Sorry Patty, but gender aside JimCam as both a filmmaker and human being has achieved more, and has a far greater understanding of the medium and writing effective characters, than you ever will.

>>94891763
>Implying that a woman needs to look like Charlize in Monster also proves that he thinks vanity equals weakness
WTF he meant that pretty women always get what they want no obstacles. She needed doubt or a thing to over come.

>>94889529
>>94889536
I came into this thread expecting the usual SJW bullshit, but it's not. Jenkins is right about everything beside the obnoxious "you can't understand because you're not a woman" part.

>>94891830
Hugh Hefner would claim he was liberating women too.

>>94891798
Wonder Woman has never beena rugged survivalist. That isn't the story that was being told. The story that was being told was LITERALLY Beautiful daughter of the Gods faces the reality of humanity. Not, normal, gritty survivalist in extraordinary circumstances fighting to preserve humanity.

It's completely different characters and stories. And it shows that he sees "strong female" through that single lens.

>>94891798
that's part of where this falls apart. Gadot and her "Acting". Jenkins may be right but its brought down by her example.

>>94891833
nice blog.

>>94891525
LOL holy shit, my dude.

We get it, you don't like Wonder Woman because she was "made wrong", for all that's ever meant in comics, but you're seriously calling Harley Quinn a role model.

Hollywood is fucking insane.

Wondy caught on as the feminine icon because girls liked her and feminism was a thing in the 70s when she got her reboot so they invested more of that attitude into her. The TV show also helped tremendously and unlike the Batman show half of DC's creative staff wasn't ashamed of it for decades despite it saving the character. People rally behind comic book characters they like because they like them and because they are, in a way, mutable; Green Arrow was't practically communist when he started, but the left leaning liberal thing is what really made him stand out from Batman's shadow, so they pushed into it.

>>94891778
that's a strong argument to men that want to chop their dicks off and become a women.

>>94890904
>But the problem is the archetype here is "problematic" from a feminist viewpoint.
>implying you actually understand feminism
Nobody here does, everybody think it comes in neat little waves like a fucking video game but that's not how real life works.

>>94891814
She's clearly enjoying it so yes.

>>94891840
Then why did he say "Sarah Conner was not a beauty icon"? Seriously, anon, it's okay to answer honestly, have you seen Wonder Woman?

>>94891874
>Nobody here does, everybody think it comes in neat little waves like a fucking video game but that's not how real life works.

Thanks Anon, now I'm always going to think of First Wave feminism, Second Wave feminism, etc as waves of attackers in vidya.

>>94891814
moar....MOAR

>>94891848
Hugh Hefner wasn't a psychologist and an active feminist.

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>>94891833
THIS.
Patty is a modestly talented director who gets work like WW because of the "gimmick" of having Le Female Director for a WW film, when the only substantially interesting characters in the film are guys.

>>94891121
>Remember all those articles about how Wonder Woman was the first independent female action hero ever?
No? I don't read entertainment news as faithfully as you do anon.

>>94891859
Nice failure to refute the point. Nobody will remember or care about this Wonder Woman movie in 15 years time when the DC franchise is on its second reboot or has been put to bed for a decade to cool off.

People will still be applauding Cameron for his efforts for decades to come, and I suspect successive generations of women will find the likes of Ripley and Sarah Connor far more inspiring than Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman.

>>94891877
because she has a flaw. yes she's not a beauty icon she's more than that. that flaw is being insecure.

>>94889529

>A woman tries to undermine a man by saying he isn't a woman

>Goes on to generalize all men, while her movie was written by men and funded by the Koch Brothers

Somewhere out there someone is having a deep fucking giggle.

>>94891909
I said that because your post is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of this thread.

>>94891896
new fag

>>94891313
>having a negative view of sex
HOW DOES IT FEEL KNOWING THE PATRIARCH OWNS YOUR ASS ANON? DOES IT FEEL GOOD KNOWING THAT SOCIETY HAS MALFORMED YOU PSYCHOSEXUAL DEVELOPMENT LEAVING YOU INCAPABLE OF TRUE SATISFACTION!

>>94891763
Yeah, this is just Hollywood's problem with Superman, that he breaks the formula and that scares the shit out of them, being thrust on Wondy.

I think, "You can't write women because you do not have a pussy." is retarded and, worse, reductive as hell, but I can't agree with Cameron here.

Also: Terinator Genysis. Fuck off.

>>94890968

He gets what he deserves for allying with those people in the first place.

>>94891920
It's the shallowest appeal to "feminists".
Not to mention that she's obligated to direct this movie with the "writer" Snyder's distinctive action stylings. But she got to add the "teehee this dress is restrictive" fluff I guess.

>>94891921
James Cameron posses more knowledge about making films then Jenkins does. That's what I got from it. Which is true. He can also get an actual performance out of his actors.

>>94891121
She's a terrible female character though. She's born into a position of absolute privilege (literally created from raw matter by a god to be perfect, so as a bonus she even gets in on the immaculate conception meme), basically invulnerable, capable of anything, all-good, all-loving, etc.

There've been writers who've found ways to make her interesting and likeable over the years but Wonder Woman is basically the urtext Mary Sue. There's absolutely nothing relatable about her to the average human being, and no problem she has to in any way struggle to overcome.

>>94891814
man kinkshaming is hard with you.

Yeah, Marson used bondage in a lot of his writings, but bondage isn't inherently sexist, even when the woman takes the submissive role. It's supposed to be about exploring natural dominant and submissive themes willingly through exaggerated toys and play acting.

Also man are you sure you aren;t a third waver your sex hate is downright appropriate.

>>94891951
Who pray tell are "those people"?

>>94891972

Feminists.

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>>94891931
I just don't read comics published by horny dudes for horny teenage boys and think "how liberating is Bombastic Bikini Bimbo for all the girls that are not reading this book at all!"

I might as well claim that Druuna is an expression of feminism.

>>94891848
Well he certainly helped with the sexual liberation of the 1960s so yeah, you're kinda right.

>>94891869
They already are women, they are women trapped in men's bodies and besides transfeminism is a whole another ballpark that I"m gladly interested in talking about though if we are gonna I will gave to ask you to avoid misgendering transwomen as men like you just did now.

>>94891830

Nobody is the first world knows what sexual repression even looks like. Women even in early 20th century could still cheat.

Go to Africa where your clit gets cut off and try to have an orgasm. That is sexual repression. And the system is so in-grained it's the mothers and grandmothers doing it to the daughters.

Or getting lit on fire when your husband dies in India.

Or stoned to death because you kissed a boy from wrong clan or family raped as punishment.

People are such unbelievable whiny pussies.

>>94891961
Now tell us about how Superman's boring because he can't be beaten up by muggers, god, this entry level /tv/ trolling is positively refreshing.

>>94892033
Superman is so boring they've had to focus the comics about his "adorable super-son" to make anyone give a single shit.

>>94891983
>what is Creator's qualifications and philosophies
>what is cultural and historical context
Keep being a retard though.

>>94892024
this has nothing to do with comics. Where the fuck are the mods?

>>94892025
You're right, we should aspire to the sexual mores of the 1930s because it's worse other places.

>>94891920
>Goes on to generalize all men
But she didn't, which implies you're not actually paying attention.
PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT PATTY JENKINS AND JAMES CAMERON ACTUALLY SAID, DO NOT INVENT IMAGINARY DIALOGUE, IT ONLY SERVES AS MISINFORMATION AS PEOPLE WILL ASSUME THAT YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH.

>>94892057
Now talk bout how Batman's different because he's human and had to earn his skills, do it, let me finish, DO IT YOU FUCKING SUMMER HACK.

>>94892065

No, I'm saying cowards hide behind false issues because real problems as defined by their own mores take actual courage to fix. But you think making a relativity argument legitimizes your point.

>>94891983
SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU DON'T READ COMICS!?! ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOU NEVER READ A WONDER WOMAN COMIC IN YOUR LIFE!?!

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>>94892075
Batman is the Gary-Stu-est of all, le perfect at everything Billionaire who automatically reverts any hero in the room to being the second best at whatever their specialty is.
Fuck Batman.

>>94892076
So now you're calling the man a coward? Dude had his beliefs, wacky as they are, and lived according to them his whole life. How is that cowardice?

>>94892090
can you even into reading comprehension?
"I don't read this and think _____"

>>94892076
>I'm saying cowards hide behind false issues
Ok COWARD BECAUSE YOU DID YHE EXACT SAME THING HERE SO IN YOUR OWN WORDS THAT MAKES YOU A COWARD.

>>94892069

She's trying to defend the nature of her mary sue character not realizing her movie was written by men and funded by them. In essence men created the character she put on screen, whom she defended against Cameron.

Are you just irony-blind or is this one of those things where you overlook things like "You don't understand because you're not a woman" How do you miscontext that exactly?

You as a male do not understand because you are NOT a Woman. Verbamit. She is making a quantity argument in vacuum of movies not led by women even though a massive hollywood push to have female leads. She's in effect defending quality of the character by shielding it from criticism that portrayal is a one-note flawed creation and by definition would fit 'Mary Sue'

He is saying a true female character has flaws. She is saying you don't need flaws when the landscape in which movie is released in is flawed. 'We just need more female led movies' said Patty 'More Girl's Jenkins.

>>94892108
SO YOU DON'T READ AT ALL? THIS IS SO CONFUSING I'M HAVING A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING YOU. SO FAR ALL I GOT IS THAT YOU'RE AFRAID OF YOUR OWN SEXUALITY AND THAT YOU DON'T READ COMICS.

>>94892133
Is being intentionally retarded in All Caps the new daytime meme?

>>94892128

verbatim*

>>94892128
Wonder Woman basically caused DCfriends to gp full "WTF I love NuGhostbusters nao!"

>>94892128
>She is saying you don't need flaws when the landscape in which movie is released in is flawed.
No she is not, what a gross misrepresentation of her argument. I have to agree with that anon that you are inventing imaginary dialogue here.

All she's saying is that there is not a singular way to write a strong female character, and there does not need to be some excuse for a female character to be strong. How you have extracted what you said from that is beyond me.

>>94892185

They don't realize by exaggerating your own argument it pulls them into a light that they don't want to be in. Good analogy though.

>>94892150
I LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS, IT'S FUN.

>>94892189
>All she's saying is that there is not a singular way to write a strong female character
And Cameron isn't so much contradicting that as saying that the one she's made is dull and one-dimensional.
You can absolutely have dull, one-dimensional strong female characters, WW is hardly the first film to prove it.
That doesn't make them any good though.

>>94892185
uh no

if anything it's the cucks bringing up Fembusters reviews

>>94892250

>Uh no sweetie

>>94892215
>And Cameron isn't so much contradicting that as saying that the one she's made is dull and one-dimensional.
Cameron implies that having a beautiful and strong female character is somehow wrong, and that there needs to be a particular reason for a female character to be strong, such as having lived a troubled life. Why can't a female character be badass just because? That isn't to say she can't have flaws at all.

>>94892277
come child

Wonder Woman has been a troubled and oddly dark character in the comics for over a decade.

>>94892215
>Cameron isn't so much contradicting that as saying that the one she's made is dull and one-dimensional.
HE'S DIRECTLY CONTRADICTING THAT THOUGH, SEE ONCE YOU MISCONSTRUE THIS TIME BY IGNORING HOW CAMERON USED HIS FEMALE CHARACTERS AS THE MERIT OF TRUE EMPOWERED FEMALES. CAMERON'S WHOLE ARGUMENT IS THAT WONDER WOMAN WAS DULL AND BORING BECAUSE SHE WASN'T LIKE ONE HIS CHARACTERS.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE ARGUING IN GOOD FAITH HERE ANON.
IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE PATTY INTO A STRAWMAN FEMINIST.A

>>94892281
>Cameron implies that having a beautiful and strong female character is somehow wrong
I thought it was Patty who brought looks into it, and Cameron was simply implying that a strong female action hero should be tempered by hardship, as many male heroes are?

>>94892320
MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE A STEP BACK AND SEE WHAT'S ACTUALLY BEING SAID.

>>94892313
Cameron was using his own characters as examples of female protagonists with multiple layers to them not as the template for all Female Protagonists.
Patty's WW is a shallow cartoon, the Fish Out of Water with Super-Might.
She's about as compelling as Swartzenegger's Hercules in Hercules in New York.

>>94892343
>

UH NO SWEETIE, MAYBE ITS YOU WHO NEEDS TO TAKE A STEP BACK

>>94892320
>I thought it was Patty who brought looks into it
>"Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon," Cameron said.

>Cameron was simply implying that a strong female action hero should be tempered by hardship
The problem is saying that that is the only way for a female action hero to be strong.

>>94892380
I'M JUST SAYING YOU SEEM TO BE LOST.

>>94892343
Well, I've read the article and the OP's post and image.
Cameron is effectively saying that they've dressed some attractive nonesuch in a costume and had her blow through walls in a sexy manner, and that's not really an advancement for the cause of women in Hollywood.

Which is so, because Resident Evil and Ultraviolet and Eon Flux and a hundred movies before them have had hot women kicking in walls and kicking ass.

Wonder Woman is only noteable because it made a lot of domestic box office. That doesn't make it a shining beacon of modern female empowerment any more than Bays box office made Transformers an insightful examination of the horrors of war.

>>94890904
>Alice
>Katniss
>Buffy
At least come up with better examples, those are genuinely garbage.

>>94892128
>You as a male do not understand because you are NOT a Woman.
Do you? I bet you would sperg out just as much when a women generalizes what a man likes or who he is.

>>94892432
Honestly Gadot's Diana belongs with them.

>>94892425
>Cameron is effectively saying that they've dressed some attractive nonesuch in a costume and had her blow through walls in a sexy manner, and that's not really an advancement for the cause of women in Hollywood.
RIGHT AND PATTY IS POINTING OUT SHE'S AN ACTUALLY WIMEN IN HOLLYWOOD AND THAT MAYBE CAMERON ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE AUTHORITY ON WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD.

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Diana > Diana desu.

>>94892448
Fair enough.

>>94892446

Not at all, I just have a fetish about using hyperbole. It turns me on.

>same day as Reeves confirms that there was a smear campaign going on, just after Wonder Woman crosses $800M becoming the most successful capemovie of the year, this bullshit debate starts allowing /co/, and I mean /tv/, to spout their meme opinions about how bad Wonder Woman actually is and how the DCEU is still in danger despite being ahead the MCU by all objective metrics
Really makes you think. Patty is right by the way, there is more than one way to portray a female character than Sarah fucking Connor

>Jenkins noted Cameron's "inability" to understand her film, adding that it's unsurprising because he's "not a woman".
This is weak criticism.
"You can't say bad things about my casserole since you are not a Chef."
"You can't say bad things about my video game because you are not a game designer."
Any criticism you make that goes to that moment, is instantly trash.

>>94892450
I've seen well-written men in movies written and directed by women, and poorly written and portrayed men in movies directed by men.

I don't think that Patty's tits give her some special advantage in bringing the fantastical character of Diana of Themyscira to life.
In fact, directing a movie where the champion of Hera, Athena and Aphrodite is reduced to "That hottie Zeus made to kick ass" did the character a disservice.

>>94892478

you think her version of wonder woman is a better character than Sarah connor?

More than Feminist or anything crap, what Cameron seems to REALLY completely not understand is the Superhero genre. These characters are meant to be inspirational, sure a lot of them might have tragic backstories that set them on their way, but they overcome that and selflessly fight for higher ideals.

He seems to think for a character to have depth they have to be edgy, troubled and brooding their entire lives, completely stuck in their problems, unable to rise above them. Sure there's a few Superhero's like that it's a brood genre but who the hell wants to ASPIRE to be like that?

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>>94892478
>Patty is right by the way, there is more than one way to portray a female character than Sarah fucking Connor
Yes, you can make them good characters in any number of ways, or you can make them meciocrities like her Wonder Woman.

>>94892513
>what Snyder seems to REALLY completely not understand is the Superhero genre. These characters are meant to be inspirational, sure a lot of them might have tragic backstories that set them on their way, but they overcome that and selflessly fight for higher ideals.
Fix'd.

>>94892478
>Reeves confirms that there was a smear campaign going on

stop the presses and gimme a source

>>94892489
>"You can't say bad things about my video game because you are not a game designer."
That sounds a lot like Jonathan Blow or Phil Fish.

>>94891690
yeah sure just like "lots of people" liked BvS and Suicide Squad

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>>94892478
>just after Wonder Woman crosses $800M becoming the most successful capemovie of the year
Did GotG2 not happen or are we using some arcane criteria to measure success here?

>>94892489
Usually I'd agree with you, but when Cameron takes the position of restricting what a female action hero should be, and calling divergences from that regressions that only exist due to "male Hollywood", he's basically asking for that kind of criticism.

>She’s an objectified icon, and it’s just male Hollywood doing the same old thing!
>And to me, [the benefit of characters like Sarah] is so obvious. I mean, half the audience is female!”

>>94892539

I agree yeah, he really fucked up Superman in the DCEU with his movies, tried to make him into something he's not and it just does not work, it misses the point of the character and by doing so actively hurts everything around it.

Hopefully some other director is able to undo that damage eventually.

>>94892497
>>94892489
That would at least explain why Ares and that general are such horrid villains.

>>94892575
to these "people" it only matters when DC does something

>Reminder that Cameron wrote this

In a dizzying down-angle we see how the suspension cables all meet radially at the top of the tower... like the treads of some vast spider web. Peter and MJ seem to sit at the very center of the web, surrounded by the lights of the city. It is a warm spring night. And the moment is pure magic. She stands with her back against a girder, needing to feel something solid. Spider Man stands before her, a perfectly formed male silhouette with a soothing low voice.

SPIDER-MAN: Courtship among the spiders is highly ritualized. It varies from species to species. The male spider may circle the female, or wave his front legs... to signal that he is not prey.

Spider-Man moves in a hypnotic arc around her. He raises his hands in a dance-like movement. Lowers them.

SPIDER-MAN: The female usually signals her willingness by an uncharacteristic passivity.

MJ takes a deep breath. Her lip trembles. Her knees are weak. Her eyes, though, are steady, gazing at the silhouette before her. She doesn't move of speak. He moves closer.

SPIDER-MAN: In certain crab spiders, such as Xysticus, the male will attach strands of silk to the female... tying her limbs...

Spider-Man moves his hand gracefully across her, and she sees the sheerest silk webbing glinting in the moonlight. First one wrist. Then the other. Hypnotic movement in the moonlight. Her arms are bound to the wall. Her breathing gets more rapid.

SPIDER-MAN: Since the female can break free at any time, the bonds have only symbolic significance.

MARY JANE: The male must be very bold... to take such liberties with the predatory female.

SPIDER-MAN: Yes. He is very bold. But he must also trust her. Close your eyes.

He removes his mask and kisses her. Their mouths very slowly and very sensuously devour each other. Peter and MJ are locked together. He is mesmerizing, gentle, powerful. He pushes up her skirt. They make love, high above the world. She doesn't look.

>>94892575
Having a way bigger budget and way more marketing makes it less successful. That's why BvS is not as succesful as other movies that made less

>>94892576
>when Cameron takes the position of restricting what a female action hero should be
He's really just saying "give them at least the tiniest bit of depth before celebrating Year of the Womyn". I don't think he's saying "Make them all Sarah Connor."

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Fuck Women and fuck the comicbookindustry.

>>94892549
there isn't one

>>94892597

The fuck?

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>>94892549
There you go

>>94892497
>I don't think that Patty's tits give her some special advantage in bringing the fantastical character of Diana of Themyscira to life.
IT DOES GIVE HER A SPECIAL ADVANTAGE WHEN TALKING ABOUT WOMEN AND WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD, BECAUSE SHE'S BOTH. WHEN CANERON IS SAYING WONDER WOMAN WASN'T EMPOWERING ENOUGH HE'S NOT TALKING SHOP HE'S TALKING FEMINISM.

>>94892599
jesus talk about delusional

>>94892629
now where does that say "there's a smear campaign against my lord and savior Snyder and DC"?

>>94892629
a source not a screencap

>>94889529
Cameron BTFO by /ourgirl/

>>94892599
GotG2 made more in BO than the difference in their budgets, and had a hell of a lot more tie-ins to cover any budgetary expenses.

Disney is pretty brilliant at marketing and covering the expenses of such efforts.

>>94892641
ARGUMENTS DON'T BECOME STRONGER BECAUSE YOU SPAZZ OUT AND TYPE IN ALL CAPS.

>>94892641

>UH NO SWEETIE

>>94892661
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=batman+reeves+dceu

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>>94892534
kek

>>94892707
>that pic
Why should we ever listen to marvelfags again?

>>94892641
He has a point though, she's not particularly empowering, she simply kicks ass with superhuman powers. And is otherwise a pretty simplistic superhero character.
This has been done in a considerable number of movies before Wonder Woman.

I can support congratulating Patty on proving that a female director can helm a Big Dumb Action movie and do big box office, THAT was in considerable doubt, after all.

>>94889672
Underrated kek

>>94892735
big deal, she could have done it years ago with Thor: The Dark World

It's an interesting argument, but the outrage is obviously fabricated. Cameron and Jenkins are not that good as directors as people think and "being feminist" doesnot make a movie good, but I like characters like Sarah Connor or Wonder Woman all the same.
I find Jenkins pretty quick to jump on that kind of argument, you never heard her when people were criticizing her actress for political reasons.

>>94892766
It's a much bigger deal than Wonder Woman beating up a CGI villain.

>>94892687
I JUST LIKE TYPING IN CAPS IN THESE KIND OF THREADS THOUGH REALLY I'M BEGINNING TO THINK IT HELPS GATHER MY THOUGHTS.

>>94890084
>A perfect Mary sue isn't aspire worthy because it's impossible.
You don't know how aspiration works. It's not about achieving the same perfect results. It's about bettering yourself and achieving your OWN results.

>>94889529
>James Cameron, who has been known to write one-dimensional female characters,
What a load of horse shit. Show this idiot Terminator 2.

>>94892735
Let's not pretend that Sarah Connor was any less simplistic than your average horror movie final girl.

>>94892033
He has a cast of interesting villains all capable of outdoing him in some regard to keep him on his toes, and the duality of his blue-collar American upbringing vs being an alien god-being keeps him interesting and relatable in the hands of good writers. All Wonder Woman has is Cheetah.

His biggest problem is shared by Wonder Woman in that they're effectively sexless characters. Even with all the weird bondage stuff Moutlon-Marston added to WW, and giving Superman a wife and son, they still somehow come off as strange, castrated, asexual beings.

Then again this is true of most American comic characters. Punching someone through a brick wall and straight into the ER is fine, the idea of a character actually having a healthy sexuality is not.

>>94892604
Diana's naïve beliefs about mankind being crushed after she kills Lindelof or whatever the Kraut general was called, and she conquering her doubts and momentary loss of faith in humanity when shw choosed to still fight Ares didn't give her depth?

>>94892783
>but the outrage is obviously fabricated
Seriously this. In both statements Cameron says he liked Wonder Woman and Jenkins that she admires Cameron. A disagreement on how to make female characters and feminism in movies that's just being predated by clickbait

>>94892817
I believe he's only seen True Lies, which is a totally silly popcorn movie.

>>94892828
In the original Terminator, sure I have no problem admitting that.

>>94892539
As they do in Snyder's films. Since it gives them pathos instead of making them static fully fledged heroes the moment they are in costume

>>94892855
Does no one remember the fucking epilogue?

>>94892735
IF ANYTHING WONDER WOMAN IS MORE EMPOWERING BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH A TRIAL OF FIRE TO PICK UP MALE CHARACTERISTICS TO BECOME EMPOWERED, SHE'S FEMALE THROUGH AND THROUGH SHE COOS AT BABIES AND MAKE PEOPLE WITH PTSD SMILE WHICH WAS ACTUALLY THE ENTIRE POINT THAT MARSTON WAS TRYING TO MAKE.
FEMALES DON'T HAVE TO BE GUYS TO BE STRONG, THEY CAN JUST BE WOMEN.

>>94892872
Sorry, Supes relies on Mom and his Girlfriend's direction just a little too long for that to be convincing.

>>94892880
What in the absolute fuck is a male characteristic you gibbering fucking retard?

>>94892919
Not him, but solving crises by punching people in the face, slashing them with swords and otherwise resolving conflicts by killing people.

Which Diana totally does not do.

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>>94889536
>It's like someone trying to make Superman a broken damaged character, it doesn't work
But it does fucking work, he's been broken multiple times!

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>>94889529
>James Cameron, who has been known to write one-dimensional female characters
Well, I mean.
Yeah.
I never really thought about it but his characters in general aren't the deepest.

>>94892919
USUALLY IN THE PARLANCE OF VISUAL LANGUAGE IT'S SHORT HAIR, TONED ARMS, MAYBE A SCOWLING FACE BUT IN TERMS OF WRITING I MEAN STOICISM,CYNICISM AND PRAGMATISM, AN AVOIDANCE OF THINGS RHAY WOULD MAKE YOU SEEM SOFT.
DICK JOKE!

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>>94889575

>the guy who praised Genysis says he would have done Diana's character differently
Based Patty Jenkins shouldn't waste her time answering him tbqh

>>94891757
Only adherence to the principles of English Liberty and Common Law elevate America above the rest of world; you can see in how Britain has declined by adopting continental law and societal norms while the US retains its strength.

>'Wonder Woman' Director SLAMS James Cameron: You Don't Understand, You're Not A Woman

Why do people sensationalize things like this? All she did was say that she appreciates his comments because he is quite talented but feels he missed the point. That's not a "SLAMS".

Is discourse simply not allowed anymore without it being cut down to high school drama terms?

Women are inherently boring.

>>94893087
This.

>>94892783

Cameron hasn't earned the title of great director yet? Btw, I don't agree with what he said here. But he's obviously a great director, he's behind a lot of iconic films.

>>94893014
IRONICALLY ENOUGH VASQUEZ AND RIPLEY IS A EXAMPLE STUDY OF CONTRAST ON WHAT I MEAN.

>>94889576

That's equality, bitch.

>>94889665
HAHAHAH

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>>94893064
>Why do people sensationalize things like this?

where do you think you are? People around the world would not read news without slant like this, whether you side with the writer or not. Clear, unbiased journalism is an ideal (and not a reality) for a reason.

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>>94893214
I don't get it what's so funny

Holy fuck this board really is Tumblr 2.0. The fact that anyone can call Wonder Woman fantastic when it was borderline mediocrity with an absolute garbage final act is beyond me.
Also, she says James doesn't understand Wonder Woman because he's a man. Is she also saying that women will never understand leading mens characters by that statement?

>>94893320
This board praised GotG2 and Doctor Strange too, and the only mediocre parts of those two were the ones that weren't absolute shit. Mediocre is the best capeshit movies can aspire to be

>James Cameron in charge of being a champion of strong females and feminism

>However the taunting continued into adulthood, she later revealed, explaining that Titanic director James Cameron nicknamed her "Kate Weighs-a-Lot". In 2008, Winslet told Vanity Fair that she considered herself "always a fat kid" after feeling isolated from the perfection of Hollywood: "I was fat. I didn’t know any fat famous actresses. I just did not see myself in that world at all, and I’m being very sincere. You know, once a fat kid, always a fat kid."

lmao

>>94893114
He used to be an excellent director, but that was a long time ago. He hasn't made a great movie since T2, but I'll admit I can't stand how cheesy he can get.

>>94893388
Kek, based Cameron

>>94893320
Because it came out after Man of Steel, BvS, and Suicide Squad. After three straight dick punches getting slapped in the face is new and different.
>But those movies were good!
You're in the minority .Deal with it.

>>94889529
Diana has been here since the 70s and women didnt care about her till now fuck women.

>>94891098
I was waiting for this. Thank you.

>>94889529
>"Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon," Cameron said
Says you, fag. I would have slammed my baby batter in her and made a dozen John Connors.

>>94890172
I liked them, but only for the rule34 potential.

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>>94893513
>You're in the minority .Deal with it.
And so are you

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>>94889536

>broken damaged superman

GET OFF MY EARTH

>>94892574
You van like a movie and it can be poorly written. Look at sharknado.

>>94893513
>You're in the minority .Deal with it.

I don't really give a shit if I'm in a minority. I liked it, any people who hates that just has to live with that fact.

>>94889536
>you can't compare her to Sarah Conner
What? A lot of "badass woman" characters in the last 30 years are directly inspired by Sarah Conner and if not her then Ellen Ripley. She's certainly inspired more characters, especially in recent history, than Wonder Woman.

>>94892574
Sweetie, take a deep breath and look at this >>94893639

>>94890738
Having "real" role models just sets you up for disappointment because you will inevitably find something wrong with them. With fictional characters, you can construct them any way you want. This is also a major issue in the "2D vs 3D" arguments.

>>94893320
This has nothing to do with tumblr. She's fucking right you faggot fuck. Faggots like you make it so when there is a legitimate issue and /co/mblr fags are REEing at reasonable anons they have a foot to stand on with "bu-bu-but you guise aren't reasonable either!"

theres a difference in saying "you know, she has a point" and the type of faggot that would reply to something like:>>94893441
with "YOU'RE DERANGED AND EVIL" or something.

If you can't make that distinction, sincerely, you're an idiot. There really is no debate to be had there. You're simply a simpleton at that point.

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This triggers /co/mbler

>>94890084
>Aspiring to be what you are a flawed person but one who overcomes & does great things anyway is inspiration worthy.
too Synderman is nothing like that

>>94890904
RAPE FOR THE RAPE GOD!

>>94894112
PUSSY FOR THE PUSSY THRONE!

>>94894057
>Look mom I said /co/mblr again
You give us reasonable people a bad name when bullshit like Black Valkyrie and Whor happen. Then people get to say we're always nuts because of faggots like you.

You people are the Hannity of /co/. The dudes that are such crack pot meme spewers they continue to ruin an entire networks name.

>>94889529
I never respected T2 Sarah Connor. She was awful.

Wonder Woman defenders have gone too far. /co/tumblr is real, this thread proves it

>>94894171
Not him, but shut the fuck up nerd, and quit . Go somewhere else if you need people to be nice

>>94890915
haha

>>94894241
Go back to r*ddit then, they hate DC there

>>94892128
>You as a male do not understand because you are NOT a Woman. Verbamit.
No, she's saying that Cameron's criticism comes from not understanding what Wonder Woman means to women because he is not a woman. And she's right. She then moves on to futher elaborate her point, but you stick with that single phrase and generalize it (even though she was talking about Cameron and never generalized) because you're a triggered faggot who feels threatened by women.
I bet you don't throw this tantrum in those "books/comics/movies/characters women will never understand" threads.

>>94894273
>Go somewhere else if you need people to be nice
The faggots whines as he tells me, in his own words, to be nice. While calling me nerd as if it isn't the surest sign of being an insufferable faggot.

Where the fuck did i say I wanted him to be nice faggot? I said, in an unreasonable manner, that I wanted him to stop being a fucking faggot and attempt to be reasonable.

>>94891833
>>94891859

Not him, but if I had to rank any Jenkins movie versus any Cameron movie, I'd place Monster and Terminator 2 respectively. That said, Monster is still better/more memorable than anything Cameron has put out.

>>94892320
Why doesn't he bitch about Spider-Man not being tempered by hardship and tough?
It's a fucking superhero film, not a gritty violent sci-fi action movie.
Nice strong female you wrote in Avatar btw, Jim. Not a Hollywood stereotype at all!

>>94890904
Haven't we been told repeatedly that wanting women to have equal rights is enough to make one a feminist? How does WW challenge that?

>>94892534
>meciocrities
?

And Cameron said he liked the movie btw. He's just shilling for the cashgrab re-release of Terminator 2 in 3D. That's certainly a step forward!

>>94889529
I wonder if Cameron will learn something from this.

>>94893032
He was probably just being polite, but I really lost lots of respect for him because of that.

>>94891067
Cameron usually writes his own scripts.

>>94894493
What about when he praised Zack Snyder and Robert Rodriguez as the guys who were going to revolutionize the medium (driven only by the visual gimmicks of 300 and Sin City)?
He's an ok filmmaker and really knows how to connect with the audience, but he's never been very insightful with his commentaries.

>>94892057
Go on. Tell us more about how he's unrelatable and how he shouldn't lift buildings