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Storytime of RUINS. Enjoy.
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>>94871943
We can all agree this is one of the stories Ellis has ever written right ?
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>>94871958
worst* Oooops my bad.
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>>94872053
Poor Silver Surfer.
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>>94872238
Here comes my favorite part.
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>>94872293
............
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>>94871943
>random soldier holding Mjolnir
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>>94872360
>>94872352
Yeah...It was probably a bootleg version in this universe.
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>>94871880
>Enjoy
Sincerely doubt that.
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>>94872436
What a pretty face.
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>>94872069
Jesus Christ dude. This ain't my first time reading this, but every time I do it feels brand new
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>>94872690
Suddenly a different artist?
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>>94872770
>>94872759
Same.
>>94872770
Yeah the main artist was sick for a brief time.
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>>94872792
GRIMM !
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>>94872848
Reed deserved this...
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>>94872939
Good ol' Parker luck.
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>>94872874
>>94872848
It was out of character for reeds to do this.
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>>94872983
Annnnnnnd The End my friends !
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I blame the fact that Ellis never treats them like characters just jokes. The story does not work as good satire. The reasons Marvels works is because it's a shift in perception from classic stories but this? It's a joke.
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So barring its edginess, which one must put aside when reading anything ellis, what exactly makes Ruins so bad in your guys' opinions?
And also, do you think it taints your memories of Marvels retroactively?
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>>94872226
>corps
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>>94872133
FFS they put Fury's speech bubble coming out of the other guys mouth. Hacks.
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Some anon once made a badly drawn in paint ruins parody with DC characters. Does someone by any chance still have it?
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>>94873022
I think it's because it was way too over the top for me.
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>>94873022
There's nothing here other than edginess. The MC runs into supes every two minutes just to show you how all your favorite characters are now fucked.
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>>94873022
>The mutants
They don't make sense at all. All of them turn crazy for no reason.
>Spider-man
Okay, it was good death.
>Fantastic four
It didn't make sense for reed to do this
>Daredevil
Really? Cancer?
>Galactus and SIlver surfer
Srupidest deaths ever.
>The rest
They are okay and don't make sense.
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>>94873064
>>94873285
>>94873362
I asked the question when I clicked on the thread. Then I reread it for the first time in years and now completely understand.
Not properly remembering it, I saw people shitting on it and thought "Hang on, that comic has amazing raw art and an interesting storytelling style, why do they hate it?
Fuck sake ellis. Literally "everyone is sad and has cancer: the comic" I suppose if one was being very very generous to ellis, you could possibly attribute the superhero origin stories all now having negative outcomes instead of positive to being a commentary on the difference between eastern and western interpretations of radiation creating mutations. But I really don't think you could give him that much credit.
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>>94873022
It's as if everything is taken into overdrive. At some point the bad shit that happens just gets so insanely over the top it gets ridiculous.
Ellis tries to do shocking deliveries by stretching the lines and ending on a delivery that's supposed to give some shock value. And it just falls flat.
Cancer is overused. It's like "Marvel Universe: Superheroes Give You Cancer". Alan Moore made it work as part of the plot in Watchmen, here it's just tagged along as some byword for gore.
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>>94872210
LMD or nah?
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>>94873394
>a commentary on the difference between eastern and western interpretations of radiation creating mutations.
Why? That's not the point of this story. Instead of creating mutated heroes, this world created deformed, cancer-ridden monstrosities. It's a cancer universe.
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>>94873609
Yeah but too much cancer is completely useless for cheap shock value.
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>>94871986
>Detaining a foreign prince at your local jail
That must be a huge ego boost
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>>94871986
Yeah. It's just crappy, overindulgent grimdark. There's not even any style to it.
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>>94871880
>enjoy
I won't and you can't make me. But I'll read it.
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BEST. WHAT IF. EVER.
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>>94871986
>Hawkeye books since Fraction.jpg
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>>94873609
That's what I mean, while that could possibly be interpreted from the text, it was not ellis' intention, he's just an edgy cunt with a cancer fetish.
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>>94871880
>enjoy
There's none of that to be had here
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>>94872310
Jesus
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>>94871880
I could never really get this comic. I get that the point was to show a world where everything goes wrong, but the way that it's done just seems masturbatory. Cynicism for it's own sake.
Shame because the art is pretty well done.
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>>94873022
There's a lack of goal beyond 'being dark and depressing'. A book about people insane enough to think they have superpowers or a book about the characters of the Marvel Universe going bad could easily be very interesting, but there's a problem with Ellis's writing of the characters here in that he splits the difference between the two, which really drops any chance for a coherent message.
There's also the fact that technically, it's just clumsy, lots of really simple mistakes. Finally, it's really just a cash-in on the success of Marvels.
Thing is, it's not even the reverse of Marvels. Marvels dealt with the bad of living in the Marvel universe as well as the good. This is just unbridled, pointless cynicism (almost to the point of nihilism). When you read Marvels, you follow Phil Sheldon as the events of the Marvel universe form him as a person, and there's something to learn for our own lives from that; we learn about how larger-than-life figures and events may effect our lives, even if in this world they don't wear skintight spandex or fly through the sky.
You don't learn anything after reading Ruins, you just come away feeling a bit dejected at seeing all these characters in abject misery.
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>>94872690
It's too bad they switched the artist.
Still, never can stop reading once it gets going, it's so fucked up.
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>>94873006
More like Worst End.
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>>94874370
I don't think it's so much that he has a thing for cancer as him pointing out the more realistic end to the fact that half the Marvel universe got their powers in some form from nuclear radiation.
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>>94871958
I don't know if it's worst, but it definitely doesn't hold up well after each reread. I actually liked it the first time. Then the second time I read it, it didn't hold up well (even though there were a few scenes that were still pretty good) and felt like watching a stand-up comedian's act flail on stage and he doesn't know how to end it.
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>>94873394
>>94873609
>>94873436
>>94873668
The problem is that this book, even more than Funky Winkerbean, would be better summed up by that David Willis comic where all the characters from Funky Winkerbean were going "Cancercancercancer?" All you need to do is replace "incest" with whatever other thing Ruins is notable for.
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When fear is too terrible, when reality is too agonizing, we seek escape in manufactured danger, in the thrills and pleasures of pretending... in the amusement parks of our unamusing world. Here, in frantic pretending, Man finds escape and temporary peace, and goes home tired enough to sleep a short, deep sleep. But what happens here when night comes? When pretending ends, and reality begins?
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>>94872455
I too enjoyed John Carpenter's The Thing.
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>>94871880
I feel like the only person outside of warren ellis who enjoys this.It's not like it's any worse than 7/10 of current marvel anyhoo.
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i liked it
just a little more realistic than than the usual and everybody dies or gets horribly deformed by being exposed to radiation, the "mutations", like in the real world, good only for a few moments of breath and then the formaldehyde jar
paths not taken, no cosmic power that saves you from yourself
and i liked the art, except for the replacement art
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>All the radiation-based guys die horribly
>No magic users have actual abilities are are seen as just loons
>All mutants generally "work" and their problems are a result of mechanical failures or others doing things to them
What is this man's pro-mutant agenda?
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fugg that was heavy
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>>94871958
It's no Watchmen, but it's not the worst thing I've read either, even by Ellis.
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>>94873972
Is he still a prince in this universe? Sounds like this is a world where the same people end up with the same aliases, but their lifestyles are altered in such a way that they end up either miserable, dangerous or both.
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I like the idea of a universe horribly broken by a complete adherence to Murphy's Law, but having characters have to act retarded or completely out of character for it to work undermines the idea. Bucky becoming a neo-nazi is just thrown out there with no explanation as to how or why, Reed Richards is a thorough scientist whose so intelligent he thinks flying up in a half-finished ship with no safety precautions is a good idea, Galactus is killed just... because.
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>>94879936
Ruins is definitely a mixed bag from what I've read so far.
Ellis said this was just a parody of Marvels, and while that's pretty clear I wonder how much of that statement was an excuse.
Also is there any official word of why Chris Moeller took over the art?
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>>94871880
lol I honestly dont regret reading through this edgy mess
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>>94874255
I like how it implies that Marvels was written in this universe.
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Man, Elis is really a fucking edgelord.
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>>94879936
>Galactus is killed just... because
The other two I can understand: Bucky may have become a neonazi after getting disillusioned by the Avengers' madness, and Richards has been known to be a risktaker in the main series. But Galactus just keeling over doesn't make any sense and it was just Ellis making sure the world wouldn't end in this utterly fucked plane of existence.
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>>94872595
For fuck's sake poor Pietro.
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>>94880315
>Also is there any official word of why Chris Moeller took over the art?
I'm curious, too. Maybe they couldn't stomach the rest.
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I find it fun that Ellis revisits the messed up Hulk origin in Planetary.
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>>94882210
I love Planetary so much.I hope to see Jakita and cia again.
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>>94872226
literally the only good page
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>>94882321
The one where Galactus died for no reason whatsoever?
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>>94882257
Planetary is so damn good and properly explores some of the ideas of Ruins, like Fantastic Four origin going another way.
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>>94873022
After reading it I'm not seeing it as bad so much as a bit half-assed in some of its threads.
It's a clear parody of Ross and Busiek's Marvels, and as a parody it does work in that it's the exact opposite project. Where Marvels took a deeply inspirational approach to the point where superheroes were essentially guardian angels, Ellis wanted to see what the world would look like if every origin story in the universe went to shit at some point. It's also clear that the story took place in a universe where things must go wrong at any cost, for virtually any reason (the exception being that Galactus had a space heart attack for no reason other than let the world live long enough to keep the story moving).
People claiming that characters like Bucky, Fury, Captain America, Professor X, and most famously Reed Richards were out of character didn't catch that Murphy's Law having the consistency of the laws of physics went right down to personality.
I'd even argue that Reed's sudden onset insanity made a strong suggestion that Sheldon was right and something specific really did suck every ounce of luck out of the universe.
As to why people consider it bad, I can see plenty of reasons. Put simply, it's a really upsetting story, and one that doesn't come to any conclusion thanks to the protagonist dying of spider AIDS. Its two issue run also didn't give Ellis enough time or inclination to fully explore the sick world he'd built, and this ultimately reduced Ruins to the comic equivalent of a hall of deformed fetuses you'd see as a sideshow attraction. Fascinating to look at, and certainly a page turner for the curious, but in the end nothing really substantial at the end of the day. With a 6 issue run, this could've had a lot more potential.
>>94882616
Is Planetary really a spiritual successor of sorts of Ruins? I'm interested.
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>>94879683
Then his name would be like "Tahir al-Latif" after changing it in prison.
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>>94882996
Black Panthers were known to ditch their "slave names" before going to jail.
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>>94873006
Breaks my heart that the original artists were sick. This scene would've been goddamned horrifying.
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>>94882984
>Is Planetary really a spiritual successor of sorts of Ruins? I'm interested.
Not really. It's morelike a love letter to comics and science fiction in general. A good one by the way.
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>>94871880
still one of the most depressing comics I've read
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I feel terribly bad for Hulk and Quicksilver.
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>>94883815
At least Hulk might not have a mind left after what happened. Quicksilver's stuck with his.
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>>94871974
What the fuck happened to Logan?
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>>94884054
Either advanced adamantium poisoning, or his mutation just turned out to be really shitty bones.
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>>94882984
>and as a parody it does work in that it's the exact opposite project.
You mean opposite as in "Marvels was thought-out and Ruins was half-assed?" Because despite Ruins' attempt to sound like Marvels' opposite ("every kiss, a bullet in the face, etc") Marvels was about superheroes inspiring the general people, BUT THERE WAS A DARK SIDE TO IT. The Torch and Namor's fight caused Phil Sheldon to lose his eye. Mutant prejudice was rampant in the 60's in the second chapter. Phil got disgusted by the general public's view of heroes in the third chapter. Phil lost his faith in Spider-Man and by extension the Marvels in the fourth chapter. That's why he retires at the end. Ruins is like "This went to shit. This also went to shit. Oh and this also went to shit too. Uh... I guess Ben Grimm did okay, but his friends were killed because everything went to shit." And that shit gets tiresome.
> Its two issue run also didn't give Ellis enough time or inclination to fully explore the sick world he'd built,
Did you know it was originally supposed to be just one issue of What If? They suddenly decided to stretch it to two prestige format issues in the style of Marvels. I don't think giving Ellis more issues would help since it felt like he was running out of ideas and would've started decompressing things if he had the knowledge of his late 90's/early 00's self.
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>>94872085
Poor Mar-Vell.
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>>94871958
I enjoyed it when I first read it as a dumb edgy comic. The comic isn't good though, it's just "let's see how bad we can fuck up the Marvek heroes", buts its not atrociously bad IMO
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>>94872595
Quicksilver one bothers me the most, so fucking edgy and depressing
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>>94872953
No shit, everyone here is out of character
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>>94884304
The fact that he doesn't have a claer face scares me.
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>>94871958
I'm a massive Ellis fan. I have yet to read anything of his that I haven't liked on some level and two of his works are my favorites of all time. That said, I would agree that this is one of his weaker, if not weakest, works. It's all the bleakness with no nuance or humor to keep you from going past the event horizon.
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>>94884152
>I don't think giving Ellis more issues would help since it felt like he was running out of ideas
I disagree. The reason this series feels so half-assed is because of what I'd said earlier: it was a showcase of horrors akin to a sideshow attraction. No time to dwell or think on it, just move on from one exhibit to the next. More issues wouldn't necessarily mean more exhibits, but rather more room to answer the questions I hear most when it comes to Ruins. Why did Reed go nuts and jump the gun? What killed Galactus? What, if anything, caused the luck of the universe to take an unprecedented nosedive? What was President X like and what drove him to wagging his dick at the inmates of Fisk's mutant prison? How did the Cult of Thor work and were there any atrocities related to it? How about the Avengers before the last Quinjet exploded?
The world presented in Ruins is actually fascinating when you get to work on polishing up the specifics. It's just too big for a 2 issue mini, and as you said probably a larger can of worms than Ellis could handle at the time. In the right hands, a world this bleak would be a goldmine of macabre stories.
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>>94884152
>BUT THERE WAS A DARK SIDE TO IT
Lower your voice.
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After reading this now I see why Ellis' X-Men run was so shitty.
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>>94884823
It was shitty.But it wasn't Bendis.
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>>94884851
God I hate that cunt. O5 were a fucking mistake and Eva Bell is worst girl.
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>>94885017
The Last Will of Xavier was a fucking awful arc. If that was removed, I'm sure you would at least be neutral on Time Aussie.
Overall the new X-Men were pretty likable and I wish they got more fleshing out.
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>>94885101
Was she ableto stop time?
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>>94885017
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>>94871880
i could have done ten times more better then this shit.
not cancer cancer cancer.
>kitty phasing" ability works fine till she has a kid and it slips out as her baby is affected by the ability or has it.
>cyclops powers can't be turned off even when he closes his eyes and he losses his eyeleds
>wolverine super fast healing and slow aging means he is still a baby or he is fine but can never move his hands cause of the claw which he doesn't have control of
>jean is crazy clingy to anybody and scared of death after she linked with a dying female as a kid.
>emma cult leader and trying to make more of herself
>Angel amputated wings as a kid by father
>Quicksilver powers don't effect him much other then the world is slow to him and he has ADHD. not allowed to use power cause mach speed rips people apart.
>Mystique junkie and powers are painful to her( doesn't know what she really looks like anymore or how her mother used to see her) aging is nonexistent to her and if it is she doesn't know how old she is
>Iceman powers can never be turn off as he is pure ice but turning back would kill him
>Beast changes every 3 weeks into a new form and is painful.
> killed self after she caused a flood in her home. last seen crying as the town she lived in was swallowed up
>Rogue in a bar drinking and angry. killed boyfriend(sex), 2 cops who tried to grab her and hates her ability( inanimate objects effected too) need to replace close every week and is sex hungry.( if she tills you trip condom is safe RUN)
>Professor Xavier president who gets reelected over and over cause he is just so good at his job(is what he makes you think)
>Gambit across the New vagas desert after he touched himself.
> Magneto has to wear a suit to block objects and only thing that trys to help mutants.
>Deadpool is in a secret lab being tested cause cancers has turned into a hyper regenerating problem and has no cure.
cont
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>>94872917
>>94872939
>>94872951
>>94872969
>>94872983
>>94873006
This is even worse after reading Marvels.
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>>94885671
> thor is dead and so is his race since ragnarok happened billions of years ago.
>Captain America dead since his body need more of the serum to live.
>Hulk looked fine till skin broke and inside was tumors and rotted flesh. smell was bad
>Hank Pym killed and tech banned since he almost made a black hole.
>Black Panther killed by all other country after he was warned not to enter another nation without permission anymore.
>iron man something something something drinking
>spiderman died after being found to have eaten MJ and grandma bitch. they were sucked dry
> silver surfer killed by USA and galactic killed by weaponize hank pym weapon. (made head small)
>inhumans base nuked and hunted by all country for releasing mist on people, trying to recruit people and coming into others nations without permission
> fantastic 4
>reed dead from elasticity not undoing itself
>johnny died from burning to death
>ben could not move but was alive. living rock as the military called it
>Susan lived but is invisible . (had a kid without even knowing it. only knew about it when it started to cry hours later)
> Doom is alive and fine as he escaped to save himself but believes he is scared for life ( has a small cut nothing more) believed people see it and pity him
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>>94886135
>>94885671
See? You can do some great shit with this concept.
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>>94877380
i read somewhere he hates it was well
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>>94885671
>>storm killed self after she caused a flood in her home. last seen crying as the town she lived in was swallowed up
> Doom is alive and fine as he escaped to save himself but believes he is scarred for life ( has a small cut nothing more) believed people see it and pity him
>Gambit body is across the New vagas desert after he touched himself.
fixed some fuck ups. my drunkass is doing to sleep night
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>>94884611
Ellis sometimes explains certain things (I mean look at Beast in his Secret Avengers run going into explaining time machines) but not always. I mean look at his JLA/Planetary. We just suddenly accept that in that Earth, the Planetary are like The Four and the JLA are that world's Planetary instead. You don't have an explanation about where Snow, Jakita, Drummer, and Ambrose went evil in contrast to their regular counterparts for example. I mean the most you know is that they're like the Four in that they killed a lot of superheroes and that Elijah is the one who killed Bruce's parents. I mean this was a book that had a larger pagecount than a regular issue of Planetary but it felt like half a story. So I don't really think giving Ellis more issues would've really expanded Ruins any more than it already was.
>The world presented in Ruins is actually fascinating when you get to work on polishing up the specifics. It's just too big for a 2 issue mini, and as you said probably a larger can of worms than Ellis could handle at the time. In the right hands, a world this bleak would be a goldmine of macabre stories.
It would but I'm not sure Ellis would improve it any more if he got more issues to work on. Now if "in the right hands" you get another writer then sure. Ironically I think Kurt Busiek could pull it off. People forget that he wrote very grim What Ifs back in the early 90's before he was known for Marvels and Astro City and all that. Just look at the issues he wrote:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/what-if/4050-4249/object-appearances/4040-41741/
That What If issue where Punisher Killed Daredevil resulted inthe deaths of Aunt May, Spider-Man, Ben Urich, Kingpin, and Castle himselffor instance.
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>>94886135
you stole the doom idea from feedom force and the rest sucked
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>>94886973
cool guess cancer cancer cancer was a better idea
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>>94887009
Half of was you posted was good, the other half was shit.
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What if Marvel Zombies arrives on Ruins earth?
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>>94887233
Radioactive cancer zombie virus
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>>94886337
this
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and people say Ultimates was edgy
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>>94885671
>>94886135
this is ten times better? you must be drunk
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>>94887233
It would be horrible.
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