Is Mac Gargan a loser? Also, Spidey villains in general thread,

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>>94868501
Gargan's alright, I guess.

I've always preferred Scorpia, though. She's far less developed as a character than Gargan. But, meh. She's got some nice tail.

what exactly was Gargan's problem? He's trapped in the Scorpion suit right? How did that stop him from having a life in the Marvel universe? Surely a guy in a costume is no big deal there.

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There was a point that that Metal Gear boy made about Spider-Man's villains re: Homecoming that struck a chord with me

MOST of them are just... dudes. Criminal dudes who want money, for sure, but just dudes. NOT mass murders, or psychotic killers, or megalomaniacs or genocidal fuckers, just dudes. So it makes sense that in a Marvel Universe where no one really makes a big deal about killing, Spidey would be the one guy who's particularly reluctant to do so. He's not fighting the Red Skull, or the Marauders, or Thanos, or Kang, he's fighting dudes who wanted to knock over an armored car so they could afford an apartment with central air and a nice TV.

so it strikes me as kinda stupid when every spidey threat is being toted as a potential world ender

dan slott is a bad writer

Out of all the popular villains Spider-Man has scorpion is my least favourite, also
Goblin, Kraven and mysterio

>>94868901
Think Rhino is the only one trapped in the suit. After Dark Reign, Smyth made him a robo-scorpion suit. Can't remember how he first went with it but he was still a jobber in Heroes For Hire.

Best Hobgoblin: Kingsley.

>>94868901
He hasn't been stuck in the suit for a long time

His thing is that he's suppose to be stronger than spidy but because spidy is always holding back it takes away from him being threat. I wish hydroman would get more love

>>94868901
Gargan is kind of an asshole, that's his real problem. He typically takes the role of super powered thug, he could do a lot more than he does if he had the mind to but it seems he's destined to be a somewhat useful lackey at best and angry nuisance at worst

Even when he had all the powers of the symbiote and became the new "Venom" he was just a lackey

Did they show who the new mysterio is? The one that got kidnapped during SpOck

>>94868913
God I hope we return to actually street level Spider-Man one day.

>Spiderman has symbiote
>Slightly more powerful

>Random normie gets symbiote
>Physically stronger than spiderman

What gives?

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>>94869139

>>94869139
Shut the fuck up. The symbiote grants super strength and spider-man abilities BECAUSE it bonded with Peter. And it didn't "slightly" increase his power, it doubled his strength.

>>94868501
Spidey has three archnemises that I see as rivals to different aspects of him:
Venom, Doc Ock, and Green Goblin.


I really like his rogues. Easily the best next to Flash and Batman.

>>94868501
I hate how they just decided in the 90s that Scorpion was lame, despite being one of Spidey's most formidable foes for decades. I also hated that he went from a psychotic loose cannon no villain wanted to deal with to "hurr I stink." And now suddenly Peter can punch off his jaw despite Mac being able to take Peter's best haymaker back in the day.

Fuck that noise, classic Scorpion is still one of my favorite Spider-Man villains.

>>94869671
I think specifically Spidey has the best villains for cool action

I mean, how many times is Batman going to punch the hell out of a gimmicky criminal? Or how many levels of manga-esque implausible bullshit do the Rogues have to use to stand a chance against Flash?

Meanwhile, Spidey is fighting fuckers with freaky metal arms, crazy jungle weirdos, shape shifting tentacle monsters, humanoid water, humanoid sand, a guy with a weird military flying platform, all manner of bizarre cyborgs...

You can see why Batman Beyond bit his style so bad. Ditko and Romita somehow ended up putting together a cast of freaks that made for some potentially fantastic and unique action.

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>>94868501
Fuck this guy, he is a knock off of Joker, is the "evil" version of Venom (even though Venom is the evil version of Spider-Man) and has no other character than "I do evil things because I'm evil"

Spidey villains are crazy powerful and competent.

Spiderman has always BEEN that GOOD that he makes them look like utter chumps. Seriously the entire Sinister six is an avenger level threat but spidey treats them like they are nothing with his quips (even tho inside he is freaking out). So everyone thinks they are just chumps.


Think about it this way. Spideys first appearance was fighting the FF to a standstill. He's fought the avengers to a standstill and the X-Men as well in secret wars.

>>94869967
While I agree Carnage is not the most interesting or deep character in comic history, I would argue he doesn't need to be, there are people in real life who just kill because they're sick and that's it

>>94870012
didn't electro get beaten by a blind guy

>>94869651
See >>94869164

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>>94868881
Now she's getting the Shocker.

>>94868501
>Is Mac Gargan a loser?
Isn't Sony trying to make a big deal about him?
There's your answer.
Yes he sucks and was only ever mediocre at best.

>>94870012
Too bad Spidey is le awkward quirky funny men that's the butt of the jokes of the heroes now.

>>94871989
>Sony
How to spot a MCUck

>>94868501
>that huge censor bar
definitely not a loser

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>>94868501
reminder

>>94871969
what book is this?

>>94868881
What happened to her? She vanished around 09-ish

>>94868913
It's a problem that comes with popularity

When a character becomes huge, then they have to appear everywhere in everyone else' book. And their plots have to be world shaking, each villain has to have such an insanely huge impact that is This hero does not come in and stop them then the world might end or populations will be killed off.

Same thing happened with Wolverine who went from Canadian midget that cut things to cornerstone of the Marvel U in the 90's and he had to be right there fighting off space gods and giant monsters too along with Thor and Silver Surfer because put the popular guy there in every crossover.

>>94868501
I never got why he was made to be the complete loser, especially in modern times when that status has been moved over to the Sinister Syndicate members. Which I guess makes sense for Boomerang and possibly Shocker as a running gag. Not nearly as much with Beetle, Hydro Man and Speed Demon.

Even when Gargan was Venom he should have been pretty up there in terms of power. But he was still taken out in seconds by Carol just ripping him out of the suit by the mouth and he was for some reason powerless at that point, same with the venom suit that was just sitting there.

>>94870012
Wouldn't really call them Avenger level, they are a bit beyond street level but there is fuckall they are going to accomplish against the top Avengers like Thor, Hercules, Quasar, Wonder Man, or any Hulk.

for all that I love Spidey and his villains I hate Kraven. He just doesn't really fit to me. I always thought he would be much better suited as Batman villain

>>94874279
yea Kraven was my least favorite too.

He never really seemed like much of a Spider-Man type of guy at all. Just some weird jungle guy that liked using nets and spears a lot. Not a lot of motivation either.

>>94868501
Arch enemies are: Goblin, Doc Ock, and Venom in that order. Kraven is fourth, I guess.

>>94870028
This. Carnage is Marvel's truest counterpart to Batman. A blatantly 1-dimensional cardboard cutout of a character with 2 words of motivation (dead parents/likes killing) Who, almost paradoxically, has lots of really good, compelling stories written around him.

>>94873521

uncanny avengers I would guess.

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>>94869703
>And now suddenly Peter can punch off his jaw despite Mac being able to take Peter's best haymaker back in the day.

To be fair that was Doc Ock discovering that Peter always pulled his punches and that he could have killed most of his rouge gallery in a single punch. Hell even back in the 60s when he cut lose on Norman over Gwen it was like three frames of Normie being tossed like a rag doll.

>>94874464
yeah that's why I thought he'd work better for Batman. Since most of Batman's villains are normal dudes with weird themes

>>94873779
thats carmilla black. She is hulks illegitimate kid. Scorpia was a minor villainess from the 70s.

The only one who pushed Black to be a female scorpion was Slott. Carmilla is so much more than that.

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>>94874685
Beast Mode Spidey is fucking scary shit

>>94874685
And that isstill retarded bullshit because it was outright stated in the very first appearance that Spider-Man doesn't hold back with him.
Of course that would require Slott to read the comics, not wikipedia pages.

>>94874758
*in the Scorpion's very first appearance

>>94868501
The Scorpion needs some badass points.

Imagine an issue where Spidey is stranded in the middle of the Sahara Desert and The Scorpion uses a new suit to become one with the dunes.

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>>94874685
>Hell even back in the 60s when he cut lose on Norman over Gwen it was like three frames of Normie being tossed like a rag doll.
We actually have a lot of moments in the years that show Peter was always using less than half his strength/skills and is up there with Thing/Hulk if push to his limits.

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are there any good Mysterio stories? he's my favourite Spidey villain but I realised I'm not sure if I've ever actually read a good story with him.

I'm probably basing my opinion on him on his portrayal in the PS1 game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keapSSKSATY

I just love flamboyant, egotistical villains

>>94874758
>>94874773
I wish the Scorpion had remained "slightly stronger/faster than Spider-Man's max strength/speed" as originally written. That way Spidey's only chance to beat him would be to outsmart him. Nowadays he's an "easy" villain

>>94874758
Have you read that issue in question? Spidey isn't going full tilt on him then either. He rarely does on anyone out of that fear he will kill them.

>>94874892
It's a flavor of the month thing and he is hardly in flavor.

>>94869164
Spider-man can bench firetrucks. This literally makes no sense.

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>>94874811
Yes but it's in Daredevil of all places.

>>94874804
Iron Man's suit narration

>Malfunction
>Malfunction
>MalMalMal
>Engage inoperative malmal system A6
>IM6APA9620IQ9M725452

god damn I love this trope, what's the term for it? when an AI readout reflects the level of damage the equipment is taking

>>94869967
Why doesn't the Punisher kill Carnage?

>>94874758
For some reason they seem to have forgotten that Scorpion was even superpowered for a few years.

Or they assumed it was his suit

>>94874893
There was pretty much nothing to indicate that.
Be honest with yourself, that retarded scene had only one purpose to show how KEWL Ock is, everything else is just a bad justification.

>>94874987
He was depowered at least twice.

>>94874986
The guy is bulletproof and in the 60-70 ton strength range.

He's above Frank's paygrade

>>94875003
And neither of those times were when he was Venom or when he fought Spock

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>>94875001
We have seen Spidey do shit like this and other things posted that has out class Mac, the Avengers pin Mac under a train cart yet here we have Spidey throwing over his head with little effort.

>>94874986
Previously, Carnage has been shot, stabbed, ripped in half and thrown into outer space.
currently and going forward, Carnage is a cosmic, eldritch abomination that cannot be killed outright, only be slowed down by ancient alien magic or sacrificed to more powerful cosmic entities.
No, seriously.

>>94875053
Actually they were. Mac lost most of his power as Scorpion during Norman's Thunderbolt's/Dark Reign, he's been wearing gear Norman made for him to power him back up to class.

>>94875001
>There was pretty much nothing to indicate that.
I take it you missed Back in Black? That run alone showed how much he holds back.

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>tfw they will never ever return

>>94874804
Context?

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why hasn't Monster Ock ever happened in comics? far stupider things have happened

>>94875207
That thing would probably kill an entire city block in minutes.

>>94874986
He tried to kill Venom once. He ambushed him with a rocket launcher; the rocket wounded him and stunned him for a while, but Venom regenerated and survived. After this Punisher decided that Spider-Man's highest tier rogues were above his paygrade unless he got access to a gunship or something.

He did kill Red Vulture though.

>>94868501
it's really between Green Goblin or Venom in terms of his arch-nemesis.

I personally prefer it when Norman is shown as Peters arch-nemesis, because if anything, Peter sure as hell is his nemesis!

>>94875088
Someone blew his head off with a shotgun slug in Axis.

>>94875207
Venom Rulk Rider happened. I think it's just because it was already done in a game so no writer wanted to scrape the bottom of that particular barrel.

I might expect modern Marvel to try it, but Carnage has too much baggage about the symbiote being inseparable from Cletus' body. The symbiote doesn't come off, because there is no dividing line between alien and host, Carnage is 1 discrete organism.

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>>94875246
>unless he got acces to a gunship or something
How about War Machine Armor

>>94875185
Arno Stark of 2020 use a a time machine to kill a kid that kills his family when he is an adult, Spdey stops Aron from stealing/kill the child. Child is badly scarred from the fight. Spider-Man gets pissed and beats the shit out of what he thinks is that timeline's Iron Man, forcing Arno back to the future. In perfect time troupe/meme irony Arno going back in time and scaring the kid makes him become a Terrorist that wants to kill the Stark family https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

>>94875299
a better question might be why doesn't war machine kill carnage?

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>>94875232
>If I woke up lookin' like that, I would run towards the nearest living thing and kill it.

>>94875088
don't forget that after the Carnage symbiote temporarily bonded with the Silver Surfer and then returned to Cletus Kassidy, he became encapsuled in some kind of material that was supposed to be "unbreakable" and then escaped it somehow.

>>94875327
Bullets don't work on Carnage. Not even lots of bullets.

>>94875375
he was also rip in half and tossed to the sun.

>>94875207
spider-verse would have been the best opportunity really

>>94875266
>if anything, Peter sure as hell is his nemesis!
I love this about Norman, even when he was an Avenger-level threat in Dark Reign he still got triggered by the mere mention of Spidey

>that time Norman got triggered when Ock implied that there was literally anything worthwhile in the world other than destroying Spider-Man, so he gave Ock's girlfriend AIDS

>>94875185
One of the Annuals. Long story short Future Iron man wants to kill a kid in the past so he won't grow up to kill his family, Spider-man gets involved, kid gets fuck up (I forget how) Spider-man cuts loss and crushes bleeding edge tech, due to the trauma the kid grows up to hate the Starks and kills future Iron Man's family.

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I love this page

>>94875388
Just drop bombs and napalm on him.

>>94869139
retcon

>>94870012
thats why great power bring great responsibility for him

>>94874279
he should stay dead

>>94874553
having 1 great story doesnt make kraven archenemy

>>94874811
mysterio always been great in vidya since this game

>>94875751
Doesn't work. It's either alien magic or nothing.

>>94869967
Blame editorial.
Had they kept Venom as a villain like the writers wanted, Carnage wouldn't exist.

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>>94868501
Favorite D list Spidey villain?

My vote goes for Big Wheel.

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>>94868501
Ever since the 90's animated series, my favorite has always been the Lizard. Which is kinda retarded, since he's the epitome of a one-note villian. But the coat looks fucking dope.
You cannot imagine my anger regarding ASM 1

>>94874726
God it's retarded. Carmilla's debut story was great with a cool design and shit and she's unambiguously good. Then Slott gets a hold of her in Initiative and makes her a morally gray character. Then she's used in BND (by Waid I think? She appeared in a Michelle story I believe) where she's made into the new Scorpion and promptly disappears.

Also, I'm fairly sure Scorpia's from that weird late Clone Saga/late '90s period that gave characters like Lady Octopus as well.

>>94875923
holy shit

>>94875923
I first saw him in an episode of the 90s cartoon and for years assumed I had imagined the episode

>>94871969
Huh...a ship I didn't even know I wanted until it's placed in front of me

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>>94875923
I would legitimately love to see the comics adapt Swiss Miss. I'm curious as to how they'd design her and what kind of origin and motivation she'd get.

If nothing else, it would be a fun novelty, and give us more D-list team fodder

>>94868921
I've never cared for Scorpion either. Of the big/name ones, Hobgoblin, Mysterio and Chameleon have always been my favorites. I've always liked that Chameleon feels like a very personal enemy for Peter, moreso even than Norman. Norman craves power and destroying Spider-Man is part of that but Chameleon has a twisted obsession with Peter Parker himself and makes deeply personal attacks on him to destroy his unmasked security and his very identity. That's been lost, though, thanks to the OMD/OMIT shit but if there was one thing Slott did right it was pairing him up with Mysterio. Pairing their ability to make Team Mindfuck is inspired enough.

>>94869967
I actually like Carnage now because how how simplistic he is. He doesn't have a rich backstory or deep motivations. He isn't a tragic character and he doesn't have any past ties to the heroes. He isn't some sort of genius criminal mastermind. He is just a guy who likes killing.

Also the worst classic/big name Spidey villain is Electro. No personality, no interesting stories, just a thug. He's Shocker without any of the charm. It's why I'm not particularly upset with him being killed and replaced with a chick.

>>94874279
He would be much better if he used technology to hunt Spiderman. He is supposed to represent human potential at peak strength, kind of like Batman. They should run with that angle.

>>94876699
His costume looks great though and his powers will always be cool.

Shame he's just a grunt but being a world conquering guy would be worse.

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>>94868501
>Is Mac Gargan a loser?

Yeah.

>>94871969
Rogue is so much better than Kitty

>>94876699
>>94876766
the problem with Electro is that he needs to be a grunt because he's too damn powerful for Spidey otherwise. Considering Spidey doesn't normally wear shockproof equipment, if Electro was smarter in how he used his powers he'd have killed Spidey long ago

>>94874685
Except Spider-Man literally says in one of the Ditko stories that he hit Mac with his heaviest punches, yet nothing happened. He didn't say it, he THOUGHT it. The entire appeal of Mac pre-90s was that he was one of the hardest to handle, and he was nuts.

Norman was never Scorpion level in terms of strength, he was slightly under Pete. His speed, ingenuity, and ruthlessness tipped the balance in his favor.

>>94871969
What's this from? Is the rest of the comic worth reading? Love me some shocker.

>>94874893
Have YOU read it? Ditko and Lee portrayed the villains as very powerful and usually above Peter's strength grade. That was why Peter had to use his intellect to win. There's literally a panel of Peter trying to hit Mac hard enough to keep him off guard.

>>94874930
It means the symbiote didn't do much to Spider-Man's strength since he was already super powered, meanwhile Eddie was a normal guy, so it gave him more power

>>94871969
The sad part is this will never show up as a thing beyond this page despite how great it is.

>>94877141
>>94877209
You guys are 100% right but what if Spidey just outclassed him in strength as he matured and his body grew some more? He was just a kid when they firdt fought.

If we consider this it ma,es all consistent on how he used to be a major threat that lost his relevance over time

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>>94875456
Love that Goblin

>>94875266
I just don't see venom as a bad guy anymore after all this time as some anti-hero. I dont see why the jackel is so low on spidiys arch list given all the years he's fucked with him

Remember the time the Venom Symbiote called Mac Gargan a bitch?

>>94877847
Because nobody wants to actually remember the Clone Saga

>>94873486
Complete tangent but I really loved that "soft" look that was in use in the Spider-Man books of the early '90s. I don't know why, it's just always looked really neat to me.

I recently read up on what Marvel has done with Black Cat over the past few years, and that shit made me more butthurt than I'd like to admit. Can't imagine how oldfags feel about it.
She'd be better of dead at this point desu.

>>94878275
Well why don't you explain?

>>94874685
>>94874755
>>94874758
>>94874892
>>94874893
>>94875001
>>94875073

So then why not give Spiderman new villains that he can't hold back against, new common villains that will take EVERYTHING he got?

>>94874811
>>94868501
This makes me wonder, what's the best recent Spider-Man game? I haven't played one since the PS2, and I have sudden urge to play.

>>94878722
>new common villains that will take EVERYTHING he got?

Most of than can, including Scorpion, Scorpion couldn't just because of bad writing

Most of Spideys regular foes are just as strong as him if not stronger either through gaining powers or tech

>>94878275
>Fun, flirty and one of Spider-Man's closest allies/love interests
>Now a criminal kingpin who wants to kill all spiders

Spider-Mans worst villain is....hisself

>>94878722
Most of Spider-Man's villains are stronger than him and require more than brute force to beat. That's like the entire fucking point of his fights. He's a street-leveler that has trouble with gimmicky muggers yet is fighting mid-tiers who really should be beyond him, like Sandman and Carnage. This is helpfully shown when some of his villains branch out when he's not around and become much higher-tier threats, having been restrained to "street-level" in the first place mostly because he's so good at stopping them; like Rhino becoming a Hulk villain or Osborn becoming a global-scale threat.

>>94876430
Same, this concept is too cheesy to get forgotten

I always liked the concept of Vulture as being just an old man who got access to something powerful very late in his life and (because of his own greed) struggles between moving further in the life of crime or just trying to live the remainder of his life normally.

>>94881310
>Paste Pot Pete can never top Spider-Man
>but he can beat Silver Surfer 1 on 1

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Swarm needs to be used more

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>>94873521
>>94877170
Uncanny Avengers #24-25

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>>94874811

>>94868937
>Best Hobgoblin: Kingsley
Is there really anybody who'd debate otherwise?
Every other person who has ever put on the Hobgoblin mask has been a complete and utter loser.
Like when it comes to Green Goblin, I can see why someone might prefer Harry as the Goblin rather than Norman. But Kingsley has no competition.
Ned Leeds was a dupe who died like a wuss.
Jason Macendale makes modern day Scorpion look like Doctor fucking Octopus in terms of threat level.
Phil Urich is the most formidable of the three but that's not saying much.
Oh there's also Lefty Donovan and that unknown Hobgoblin from Secret War but they hardly count.

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>>94875456
>>94877386
Shit like this is why the Gobby is still my favorite villain to this day.

>>94884494
He was a jobber in Spider-Man/Deadpool.

>>94868901
>what exactly was Gargan's problem?
He's a reflection of Pete's resentment of the Superheroic life getting in the way of having a normal one.

>He's trapped in the Scorpion suit right?
Think that was Rhino, but they may have used it for Mac too.

>>94877371
There's a difference between getting stronger and suddenly punching off the jaw of a guy you barely hurt before.

Also the whole thing Slott was doing was "Oh Peter could've ALWAYS done that," which completely neuters all of his villains.

>>94886885
BAD
WRITING

>>94868901
>He's trapped in the Scorpion suit right?

I think that was just a delusion.

But I guess he more or less is now, since his physiology is fucked and he can only live outside of (or a similar stabilizer like the Venom symbiote) for short periods.