How long until the pendulum turns and it's back to DC fucking

>>94868425
What's a lenticular cover ?

File: 1457759801879.jpg (41KB, 344x675px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 344x675px

totally bonkers way to start a velma thread but hey, i'm game

>>94868453

The things where there are 2 different pictures you can see depending on the angle you view it at.

>>94868441
>>94868453
For the cartoon side of /co/, here's a brief explanation
>Marvel announces how they have a brand new thing that will redeem them back in everyone's eyes
>It's just fucking covers
>Gate the covers they announced around a 150-200% Order Lock meaning you'll have to order 1 and a half more than your last order or even double.
>Multiple stores say fuck it and just not fall for this scheme and order only what they think they can sell

It can also be used to add a "3d effect" to one picture, or gradually change the scene to make it seem like it's moving.

>>94868479
that's fair.
won't die hard fans who want the covers just order them online to secure their copy anyway?
or is that not a thing, I don't do physical comicbooks.

>>94868494
one of the stores that are boycotting are online storefronts so not likely. They can get em through Ebay most likely, some LCS will still fall for Marvel's Schemes and then outjew Marvel by marking these covers to something like $500 a piece, it does happen but they're only really jewing themselves because they're the idiots who are stuck with 200% more orders of shit books like America

>>94868473
Ah so like the Futures End shit DC did?

>>94868512
true, and they have to hope these covers will have a market that will pay that huge markup in order to shoulder the costs of making a 200% order

>>94868518
yeah but since those were open orders (They can order them separately from normal covers without having to achieve a prerequisite) while these are gated orders (They'll have to order an amount of regular covers to be able to order the special covers, sometimes it's like 1:25, you're able to order 1 for every 25 normal covers you buy)

>>94868425
DC are probably safe until at least Metal and Doomsday Clock are done. After that they'll need a new thing to tie the line together if they don't want to be directionless like Marvel post Secret Wars.

>>94868425
From the comments section of that article, someone said:

>I think someone bought 1:1000 Champions #1 at my LCS (one of the first ones to get 1:1000). My LCS had two shelves just filled with Champions #1 top to bottom. The comic was either for a personal collection or they got burned because it hasn't happened again. Marvel's been releasing a ton of 1:500, 1:1000 and 1:2000 of late.

That's crazy.

File: file.png (368KB, 1338x514px) Image search: [Google]

368KB, 1338x514px

>>94868425
Where's the website that counts how many days it has been since Marlel's most recent fuckup.

Where's hasmarveldonesomethingstupidtoday.com?

>>94868749
theouthousers is full of marvel shills. Most of their writers aren't (Fuck one of them is a huge CassFag who actually praised Batman and Robin Eternal) but the actual community is vehemently anti-DC with a few outliers. You can see how articles that do call out Marvel's shit rarely has any comments or have comments that brings DC in and tries to make it like they're just as bad or just shit on Didio for no reason.

>>94868425

Jude must be really into Game of Thrones

>>94868749
>giving a shit about the outhousers
well, there's your mistake, friend

>>94868763
Outhousers made that site? Then I guess it makes sense.

>>94868749
>When they resetted the counter for a fucking Elseworld story
Christ, fuck them.

>>94868774
IIRC they had one for Marvel for a while that they never reset and then it disappeared sometime around SW. I think it had a picture of Deadpool in a sombrero?

>>94868684

Well apparently Doomsday Clock starts a year ahead of the rest of the line and they will be caught up by the time it finishes so there's probably some sort of plan.

>>94868773
Didn't know Outhousers was behind this until now

>>94868722
to be fair DC did that for like every DK3 cover. I think there was even a 1:5000 cover.

>>94868838

Yeah but there was massive demand for that book which makes the variant investment much less of a gamble and DC doesn't do this anywhere near as often as Marvel. The 1:5000 was only for the first issue but I still find it inexcusable

>>94868749
Outhousers just bashes DC nonstop, the site is worthless

>>94868512
So the basic gist of what's going on with Marvel right now is that they're producing shitty comics no-one wants to buy and funding the creation of these comics by forcing LCSs to buy them if they also want to buy the books that DO sell?

>>94868899
what's more fucked up is that this boosts numbers for shitty comics but has no promise for retailers that these numbers will actually stick

>>94868969
>retards will continue to point to sale numbers like they mean anything

Wont Marvel block comic book stores from all the comics as usual if they dont comply?
Or did Amazon and online ordering make a way to bypass the bullshit

>>94868425
Marvel has to crash the industry again first

>>94869000
Most comic book shops these days subsist on Magic the Gathering, so most of them wouldn't be too bothered by the loss of Marvel if their demands were causing the shop to lose more money than they were making.

>>94868838
It's still scummy no matter how you look at it, BUT... the difference there is you could actually sell 100s of copies of DKIII if you were in a big city and had the market cornered in your neighborhood because DKIII sold like hotcakes.

File: IMG_0133.jpg (118KB, 550x846px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 550x846px

Maybe they wouldnt be so reviled by comic shops if they didnt push their feminist bullshit agendas into their comics so hard. Why do they insist on pushing this cancer even though its killing their sales?

>>94868684
When Doomsday Clock ends they'll likely launch Legion, JSA and some other fan demanded books and prepare for next line wide event.

>>94869000
Not that I doubt Marvel but have they done something like this in the past?

>>94868684
How about just making good comics that don't involve a company wide crossover?

>>94868473
Isn't that holographic?

>>94869146
Yeah,its basically a trade secret.
You go all in on quotas or you get nothing.

>>94869153
Why is it just because i hate misandric cunts im a /pol/fag? Thats fucking retarded and the same type of thinking that makes feminist impotent dykes classify all men and critics of feminists as white supremicists or racists who dont know their racist because of "internalized oppression". Fuck off

File: 1503016747762.png (271KB, 604x566px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 604x566px

>>94869192
>implying you are not the things you say you are not

>>94869223
But im not /pol/. In fact i think those anti semetic white supremicist hicks are nearly as bad as feminazis. They are both two sides of the same shit coin that is the american political system.

>>94869232
You're about as quick on the draw as either of those groups.

>>94868425
>How long until the pendulum turns and it's back to DC fucking up again?
It's not going to happen as long as Marvel sticks with the SJW course and that's not going to change for a while

>>94869245
I TURNED MYSELF INTO A NIGGER MORTY!

I'M NIGGER RICK!

>>94869227
>hating a system of oppressing men is now /pol/
Thanks alot for being apart of the system that promotes that cancerous way of thinking that has radicalized the majority of the public to be on one side of two political extremes and not criticising and hating both of them equally. Though i admit personally i despise feminists more and if i had time to kill either a feminist or a nazi id choose the feminist it doesnt mean i still like those shit race supremicist elitist rich loving bible thumping gator fucking hick retards.

>>94869248
>and that's not going to change for a while
Why do you think that and why did they even start there sjw shit in the first place?

>>94868425
>it's ok when DC does
But boycotting Marvel pleases me greatly. I hope shops continue boycotting them but I doubt it.

>>94869227
Point out what was misogynist/sexist/racist/whateves about what he said.

>>94869267

He called feminist "dykes". Apparently that's all you need to call someone racist/sexist/ableist/etcist.

>>94869299
To be fair, it is a slur, like calling fudge packers "fags", or calling gooks "chinks".

>>94869299
>>94869319
>TFW im bi
Im pretty sure i reserve the right to call a bunch of defiant stubborn man haters dykes

>>94869319

So apparently a woman can be as horrible as she wants to be but the minute you call her names, suddenly you're the awful one?

>>94869363
Yes,thats how it goes for last 60 years,now they get triggered if you refuse them because they become fat and ugly.

>>94869363
Calling other people names has always been frowned upon by civilized people, it's just that now it's elevated to this status of you being literally hitler if you do it to someone who isn't a straight white male.

>>94869263
In short,
Perlmutter fired a bunch of long term marvel staff, including a bunch of editorial. He replaced 'comic book people' with 'business people', which as far as I can tell just means hiring young people who will work for less and have degrees in business majors and not arts majors. These 'business people' sell Perlmutter on the idea that LGBT stuff is hip and in and by catering to it marvel will pull in a bunch of new readers. Ike buys it, Ike sells it to the board and the board sells the image of a company on the cutting edge of youth culture to disney.
Then the whole thing bombs (for a bunch of reasons) and everybody is playing the cover my ass game. The board blames Ike, Ike blames the people he hired, marvel blames their own racist fans for being bigoted asshat neckbeards and disney? Disney takes the IP's they paid for, disentagles as much control from marvel as possible and continues to print money. Which lets every one at marvel off the hook. There are no immediate repurcussions, and as long as nobody admits they fucked up, nobody takes responsibility, nobody gets fired. Something big, big enough to piss of daddy disney will have to happen before marvel will change. It's institutionalized willful ignorance.

>>94869400
>their own racist fans for being bigoted asshat neckbeards and disney?
Well i dont like my favorite marvel hero to become a sassy black bitch chic flick comic. The day disney rekts current marvel staff and their anti man bigoted ways cant come soon enough.

>>94869410
Nobody wanted their favorite hero to get changed. The very idea is fucking stupid. There wasn't anyone at marvel who said "but what about the current thor/hulk/captain america/hawkeye/ironman fan? how will they react?"
The disconnect is shocking.

>>94868425
>How long until the pendulum turns and it's back to DC fucking up again? Though I swear DC hasn't had fuck ups this bad.
have you just not been paying attention?

>>94869449
>there are people who are sincerely fans of the company marvel itself in 2017

>>94868722
Yes, Marvel's been doing things like:

>New Venom #150 with Todd McFarlane cover!
>(It's actually just a color-retouched McFarlane panel from 30 years ago, used as a cover now.)
>1:2000 (a store needs to order 2000 regular copies to get this)
>Cover sells for $2000 online to one obsessed dweeb.
>Retailer is stock with approx. 1940 regular copies of Venom #150 that they can't sell.
>So overall profit = eh.

They did the same thing with an Astonishing X-Men #1 Jim Lee cover, which people are trying to sell for $800 online. The actual "content" of the variant is non-existent. It's 30yo artwork that has no thematic tie to a new forgettable Astonishing X-Men series.

It's gotten out of control with variants.

TFW I hope this kills Marvel because I like the back issues more anyway.

>>94868899
Big Two comics in a nutshell.

>>94869097
Only people who don't buy comics give a shit about this kinda crap.

>>94869480
>Only people who don't like comics care when Marvel ruins comic book characters in comic books
Okay.

>>94869457
You don't have to like Marvel to notice DC's fuckups.

>>94868473
what?
did the 90s return.
wait comics are still all just sjw trash so that can´t be the case

>>94868479
thank you based anon

>>94869449
>have you just not been paying attention?
I have and they aren't in the same ballpark

>>94869574
you're right

they're much worse

>>94869263
It's a mind virus that they've gotten themselves into.

>Be Mark Waid
>Have a great comics career for 30 years and be the epitome of a normal comics writer.
>Midway through your Daredevil run you do a story about white supremecist terrorists.
>Three years later your life consists of sperging out on Twitter 24/7 and writing a book about Champions that is nonstop SJW and sells terribly

It's like a disease or virus they catch and can't get rid of.

They're not ever going to change or "course correct" because they think they are actually the cool correct smartypantses and everyone else is just too retrograde still to understand their righteous brilliance.

It needs to burn down and we will celebrate.

>>94869500
Sure, everybody was so outraged when they ruined fucking Mockingbird. I bet it would've seld hundreds of thousands if it wasn't for feminist propaganda!

>>94869596
>they
If you mean Marvel then you're right

>>94869609
It bothers me as a comic fan when feminists co opt anything in the industry to fuel their rhetorical bullshit, regardless if i had no previous interest in it

>>94869400
>Perlmutter fired a bunch of long term marvel staff
Was this how it actually happened? I get the impression that Ike is more behind the scenes than that, dealing with bigger picture stuff with Disney.

Wouldn't it have been Alonso who deals more with hiring and firing of contemporary talent? And even then, wasn't it more like Fraction, Remender, Hickman et al. weren't "fired" but just left because they could get a better deal at Image?

I get that this whole cycle worked out conveniently for SJWs because young hip "talent" are cheaper and more "progressive". But honestly it wasn't like Hickman's Avengers was selling so much that it made since for him to stay at Marvel when he could just focus on his Image stuff. Why would Marvel pay him or Remender more money when it wasn't like their stuff topped the charts?

>>94869623
>I like to sperg about the things I don't care about
Alright /v/ermin, you can return to your containment board any second now.

>>94869597
>and be the epitome of a normal comics writer.
top lel

>>94869319
Don't gook and chink mean two different things? Gook is for the Vietnamese while Chink is Chinese.

>>94869446
>There wasn't anyone at marvel who said "but what about the current thor/hulk/captain america/hawkeye/ironman fan? how will they react?"
Based on twitter posts I've seen from Marvel creators, they did think about that. They just didn't care because current fans are, like, forty and super old so they'll be dying soon and we need to bring in young fans.

>>94869685
Who can tell them apart anyway?

>>94869471
Time to switch to Retrofit and Domino.

>>94869692

Too bad they should have thought to put extra care into getting people into liking the new characters instead of..whatever they just did to ensure newcomers would actually BUY the comics, since it's clear that they like them as mouthpieces for their politics, but don't actually like them as characters.

>>94869692
That's correct though.

>>94869727

They're right about that at least. Too bad they're wrong about HOW to approach getting newcomers in.

File: mark waid.jpg (50KB, 294x455px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 294x455px

>>94869597
>epitome of a normal comics writer.

>>94869752
This. Newcomers still want to read about the classics. If they didn't care about the "iconic" characters they'd just read creator owned comics.

>>94869752
That's just an industry wide problem. DC does seem to have a better handle on it, they're starting a new line for children focused stories to attract SHG audience and a new mature line for Killing Joke audience.

>>94869692
But Rebirth is doing a much better job bringing new readers than whatever marvel is doing and rebirth is the most back to basics thing ever

>>94869818
No they're not. Numbers don't lie.

>>94869818
>But Rebirth is doing a much better job bringing new readers
Sure.

>>94869623
>regardless if i had no previous interest in it
If you weren't gonna buy it in the first place then who gives a shit?
People not buying into forced new versions of the characters has nothing to do with them being feminist, black or whatever but on them not being the character people wants to buy.
People like you, pretending to "boycott" comics for these reasons do nothing but legitimize their victimization when it comes to their shitty sales, instead of making them own the fact that it's due to shitty writing and going against what the fans want.

>>94869265
but they're literally complaining because they didn't copy's DC's approach on Lenticulars you maroon

>>94869638
Oh fuck off. He wrote a critically acclaimed superman, batman, fucking Wally west, JLA run, Cap run (guess what he wrote cap before civil war), Daredevil run. Hell he wrote kingdom come which a lot of DC fags love. So sincerely go fuck yourself.


This is the guy who built the flash mythos as we know today. Read a comic book.


Waids only been shit post secret wars.

>>94869789
Whaha wat?!

>>94869624
He's talking about people who know their shit tho, not
>Fraction
>Hickman

Ike fired a bunch of editors in 2011, more or less. You can see the immediate drop in quality. Also more or less around then they got their "diversity expert" giving them genius ideas.

>>94869970
>superman
It was good
>batman
Nobody cares
>fucking Wally west
Only Flashfags and Wallycucks give a fuck
>JLA run
Mediocre garbage that was surpassed by runs that preceded and succeeded it
>Cap run (guess what he wrote cap before civil war)
Mediocre
>Daredevil run
Started good, ended bad.
>Waids only been shit post secret wars.
Try since Threeboot.

File: bender laugh.gif (1MB, 288x198px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 288x198px

>>94870014
>batman
>Nobody cares

>>94870059
Waid sure is brought up in conversation for best Batman writer alongside O'Niel, Engleheart, Grant, Miller, Dini, Morrison and so on.

>>94869727
>>94869752
Actual corporate business consultant here.

The "comics fans are all middle aged and therefore can't be relied on" meme is just that... a meme. You NEVER abandon your core market. That is SUICIDE in ANY business literally 100% of the time. The correct approach to an aging marking is to appeal to the younger equivalents of your core market. Fore examples of this in comics history, look at Morrison's JLA (which brought back the big 7 and "modernized" the series stylistically), Moore's Swamp Thing (which took what was already seen as an "old timey" Bronze Age character and gave it "cutting edge" writing style), Miller's Daredevil (which turned an unpopular superhero comic into an extremely popular ninja action-drama), Miller's Batman (which made an old fuddy-duddy superhero that wasn't selling anymore into the most badass dude in comics without re-characterizing him, simply through more sophisticated writing and deeper character analysis), or Byrne's Fantastic Four (which is probably the ultimate example, since literally all it did was turn FF back into type of stories Lee/Kirby had been doing in the 60s, except with 80s style art and scripting). But trying to go for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT market, one that has NEVER shown ANY interest in your product, has NEVER worked and NEVER will.

>>94869837
>>94869849
On a per-issue basis DC is outselling Marvel right now.

File: booby.gif (561KB, 500x295px) Image search: [Google]

561KB, 500x295px

>>94870059
Not him, but I don't care about Batman.

>>94870100
That says nothing about readers being new.

>>94870093
Half the cases of this have more to do with big name creators than anything else, Moore's Swamp Thing and Miller's DD being the outliner.

>>94868899
>now

Toppest kek.

>>94870164
Also not saying that quality doesn't factor in, Jurgens was a big name creator in 90s and his TT revamp failed but a lot of credit goes to the pull these creators have.

>>94868425
>dc
>being anything
>ever

File: 2ISXbXO.jpg (74KB, 590x467px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 590x467px

>>94869597
>tfw alt-right faggots on here trying to retroactively convince people Kingdom Come was never good

You guys need to realize 90s Waid was still a human being

>>94869169
Holographic doesn't change image, it just looks 3Dish

>>94870291
You do know KC came out before the Daredevil run the anon mentions happened 3 years before Waid's downfall right?

>>94869000
>>94869146
Nah, cause they gotta go through Diamond. Stores get the shit from Diamond, not Marvel. Diamond ain't blacklisting shit for no good reason.

>>94869624
>Was this how it actually happened?
Perlmutter was originally brought on to bring Marvel away from bankruptcy. He cut a LOT of expenses, everywhere he could.

File: SJWaid1.jpg (1MB, 1991x2993px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1991x2993px

>>94869970
Kingdom Come is a piece of shit. It's literally "my generation was the best fuck the new generation" and now he's writing Champions which makes him a hypocrite. 80% of the characters in Kingdom Come don't even speak a line of dialogue. It's time to take off those nostalgia goggles and admit Waid was never a great writer. passable maybe, but he was always an asshat.

>>94870511
If Cannon films went SJW they sure wouldnt get an audience like they did.

>>94870100
Marvel is beating them in unit sales too. And to top it all off, these past few months have seen a decrease in sales compared to last year by 20-30%

>>94870516
>the face of nu-/co/

some summer stragglers still around, I see

File: laugh.jpg (24KB, 638x480px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 638x480px

>>94870567
>being a waid apologist

>>94869338
>Im pretty sure i reserve the right to call a bunch of defiant stubborn man haters dykes

I'm pretty sure I reserve the right to call a defiant stubborn man-child a faggot.

>>94869363
>So apparently a woman can be as horrible as she wants to be but the minute you call her names, suddenly you're the awful one?

A pox on both your houses.

We know about Marvel's variant incentives and overshipping. The digital sales chart tells the whole history, DC is crushing them. Same with trades

>>94868749
Fun fact, when that /co/ started to complain about that counter I proposed /co/ themselves create a Marvel counter and two things happened
>/co/ didn't create shit, because it's /co/
>I got banned for some obscure reason

>>94870631
>DC is crushing them
Sure thing pumpkin

>>94870516
>>94870595
Kingdom Come is great, but Empire cemented him as having become a turd.

>>94870713
>mister miracle comic outselling secret empire
>LCS about to boycott marlel because of their shitty practices to make it seem like they aren't a corpse of a company
Hmmm...

>>94870529
literally the only reason they do is because of overshipping and shit like this. How can you be so blind when the LCS themselves are saying that they've had enough of Marvel inflating their sales through cheap gimmicks like these?

>>94870164
Morrison was a NOBODY until after he did JLA.

>>94870747
Wasn't there also a time when a regular issue of Batman outsold Secret Empire #1? And Spencer boasted how the reverse was the case since that Batman issue sales wre divided into normal and variant?

>>94870713
How come these kinds of replies always have Sweety/Pumpkin/Darling, etc at the end. stop larping as an endearing grandma you fuck.

>>94870771
Calm down, sugar

>>94870786
I'm not your sugar, sweetheart.

>>94868425
how did DC fucked it up before (besides shitty comics of course)?

>>94870768
To be fair that was a crossover. Then again, Flash also outsold SE that month

>>94869274
>White people have a right to exist and maintain their homelands.

You cunts would probably gas Italians & Spaniards for being niggers, fuck off to /pol/ and stay there.

>>94868479

Didn't they try that already in the early 90s?

>>94870801
DC You was basically them trying to copy All New Marvel Now and failing miserably. There were good comics no doubt but their core line was weaker than ever.

>>94870529
>And to top it all off, these past few months have seen a decrease in sales compared to last year by 20-30%

The only recent article I know of that touches on that was the shitty one that compared numbers but not realizing that almost every month they picked had either a fucking crossover bumping it up or was fresh off from a relaunch. Fuck the fucking idiot had the idiocy to say that Action Comics is doing worse when it's barely bleeding 500 units a month now (Less than most books in the Top 100)

>>94870860
yeah, why do you think the industry crashed? Marvel thought that gimmicks are the way to go and spent all their money on it and came out worse than ever.

>>94870827
Well they have Spain and Italy don't they?

>>94870762
Look if LCS aren't selling these Marvel comics then they would stop ordering them you can't say they'd take too big of a hit because at the same time you're saying they aren't selling the Marvel comics do they're taking a hit as it is. Marvel's been scummy about variants for years now and nobody's stood up to them

>>94870824
Well, and SE was Marvel's new hot event, so it's fair game.

>>94870882
They did stop ordering them. Marvel literally ships comics for free and then counts them in their sales figures.

And no one's standing up to them because it's called the Big 2. No one's going to lose nearly 50 percent of their sales on principles.

>>94870765
Arkham Asylum sold million of copies pal. At the very least he was a writer that would garner attention and that goes for every British invasion writer.

>>94870865
>DC You was basically them trying to copy All New Marvel Now and failing miserably.
DCYou came before ANAD was even conceptualized you faggot.

>>94870900
Imagine being this delusional.

>>94870933
You fucking faggot Marvel relaunched a billion of times, I'm talking ALL NEW MARVEL NOW, you're thinking ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT MARVEL NOW

How will the Marvel boards at CBR defend this?

>>94868899
And then claim this means there's a market for their shitty editor's pet comics, yes. Sales numbers count sales to LCSes.

File: file.png (785KB, 736x516px) Image search: [Google]

785KB, 736x516px

>>94870933
he means this you double faggot.

>>94870953
Something something
>W-we're still gonna be better than DC Reburth!

File: overshipping.jpg (995KB, 1844x2376px) Image search: [Google]

995KB, 1844x2376px

>>94870934
Yes, dozens of comic book store owners are lying on the internet about getting way more copies than they ordered for... some reason.

>>94869274
Man you guys are like nazis and leninists had an evil baby, not only are you evil but you know you have no argument so you twist every argument to be ABOUT you, forcing people to either be painted as with you or take more and more extreme means against you.

You think you're some insidious mastermind for ripping off a fifty year old trick old comminists do to break up union meetings, I guess. Fuck off and die.

>>94869363
yeah it's almost like you're weakening your argument through your choice of words.

fuck who'd have thought that was possible.

>>94870914
He was an unknown. 1 fucking issue being a hit doesn't change that.

>>94870996
>force to take

>>94870988
I see nothing wrong with getting free copies.

>>94870516
Waid has nothing against Gen Z. It was Gen X he couldn't stand.

>>94871049
It keeps shitty writing habits and bad arcs artificially alive and slowly strangles the market.
I bet you loved Steam Greenlit too idiot.

>>94871049
a) They have to pay for shipping so it's not completely free
b) it takes up shelf space that can be used for comics that actually sell

>>94871049
>Shipping Fees
>Storage Space
>Knowledge that Marvel is trying to paint the picture of them being more successful than they really are

Instead of actually having a legitimate reason for LCS to order big, Marvel just throws a bunch of copies at them and hope they stick

>>94871082
> it takes up shelf space that can be used for comics that actually sell
It also takes shelf space for non-USA comics and smaller companies.

>>94869997
There's another page that goes with it. I think Waid missed a phone call?

>>94871049
It proves Marvel numbers are cooked and they are getting crushed by DC as the digital and trade sales clearly show

>>94871028
For plebs maybe.

File: file.png (104KB, 1278x376px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 1278x376px

>>94870953
there's no thread about it, considering that a lot of sites have already picked it up, I'm wondering why nobody there is stirring shit yet

>>94870988
Why doesn't Marvel just print less comics that they know don't sell much instead of throwing them out for free? What's the point of artificially boosting sale numbers if you're losing money in the process?

>>94871049
>Moving the goalposts.
That wasn't the argument and is an entirely different argument. The original claim was that if people don't like Marvel, they can stop buying them and the sales numbers and market will correct itself. They did stop buying them and Marvel is inflating the sales numbers to make it seem like people don't hate it.

>>94871049
Just take a look at the comments in the other anon's image. The extra copies are books that no one wants to buy, they take up space that other books could use, and they're not totally free anyway since store owners still have to pay for shipping.

>>94871049
Allow me to use a food analogy for someone of your knowledge and understanding
It's fine getting free pizza once in a while, like your boss paid for lunch or something.
It's not so great if you get 40 pizzas every day. It takes up space in your home and when they go bad, they become trash cluttering your home. You have to either eat them all, sell them, give them away, or otherwise get rid of them. You are responsible for all of these things

>>94871156
Because they legitimately are winning the dollar share, so they have to artificially boost the unit share too, otherwise the truth comes out that the only reason why they're making more is because Marvel comics cost more than DC's.

>>94871082
>>94871087
If it hurt them financially then they could boycott Marvel. The reality of the matter is that Marvel needs LCS more than LCS needs Marvel. You either accept being taken hostage or you just skip on Marvel for a few months and they learn their lesson. An LCS still has many more publishers they can order from, Marvel needs LCS to ship their garbage to.

>>94871156
Admiring something went wrong means someone has to take the blame, its quite common in corporate environment to totally ignore the problem.

You wont get a raise for saying shits fucked and your colleagues will hate you for snitching.

>>94871182
Even DC-heavy comic shops like Higgins's need Marvel sales to stay afloat. DC isn't big enough to keep them up on their own.

>>94871171
>Allow me to use a food analogy
/co/ please stop doing this. Please.

>>94871049
Is this a Marvel intern?

>>94871202
I see nothing wrong with free interns.

>>94871127
Why does Marvel have the worst, most delusional fanbase ever? It's like they have /pol/'s virulence with tumblr's delusion

>>94871216
>wants to attract SJWs
>gets a very small share of most introvert of the bunch because comics

>>94871195
You either accept being taken hostage and you take a hit every month for Yeats and years or you put your foot down and take a hit for two or three months until Marvel realizes that they need you more than you need them.

>>94871049
Free copies -> unit share boost
Variant incentives (the store ordering comics that they won't sell) -> dollar share boost

That's how we know they aren't winning shit

>>94871049
You might think they're free. But as others have said, retailers don't see it as a bonus.

Shipping costs, determined by the weight of packages, are increased. One "free" issue may not seem like much, but ten "free" issues add weight. And when you're a comics retailer who is already working in a sub-optimal marketplace, you tend to budget as much within your means as possible, without any extravagant charges. Further, if you multiply, say, ten free issues of a book across ten books, that's 100 issues that you didn't order being shipped to you that you have to pay extra for.

Which leads to shelf and storage space issues. The books may be free, but it doesn't mean people will be buying them. No matter how many issues of "Mosaic" or "Champions" line the shelves of a store, it means nothing if they aren't gone. Further, with no returnability for Marvel comics, the only place that those unsold issues go are either in the back or in the trash. The fact that retailers began to give away their extra issues for free should be enough of a sign that something isn't right.

In the end, the free issues only serve to cook up Marvel's numbers in the monthly sales charts. Those charts don't track actual retail sales for books; instead they track sales between the publishers and the retailers. We only assume that they track actual sales because that's all that we're given, and that's what Marvel wants. Because they realized that actual sales don't matter, they cooked up the scheme to send additional copies with shipments in order to report back that they sold, say, 110k copies of a book, when actual retailer orders may have only been 99k.

Or something like this. Let me know if I got something horribly wrong.

>>94871214
Welcome to /co/ Ike

>>94871182
>>94871195
which is why they're not really boycotting Marvel, rather they're boycotting Marvel's new gimmick, while it's not as huge as actually boycotting Marvel, with at least more than 50 stores participating in North America that'll deal a bit of a blow to Marvel's expectations.

>>94871197
What's wrong with it?

>>94870865
still as I asked, what was the fucked up about it besides some shitty comics?

>>94871251
They are they're just doing it in a scummy way and they're getting away with it too.

>>94870164
Moore before Swamp Thing was a nobody. Same with Miller and DD. Claremont became a big name because of X-Men. Byrne became a superstar during his FF run, not before

>>94871257
So...can they keep this up until they totally alienate the reader base or it can go on indefinitely?

>>94871257

It sounds like modern comics are a pyramid scheme of some sort, where the real money they make isn't from the customers, but from the LCS owners.

>>94871257
But how does Marvel stay afloat printing tens (hundreds?) of thousands of comics that will never be sold? Surely this must long term cut heavily into their profits. Or are shipping costs for retailers higher than printing costs for Marvel?

>>94871127
>Rebirth is DC's attempt to replicate Now

Holy shit.

>>94871197
>>Allow me to use a food analogy
>/co/ please stop doing this. Please.

Can't refute the argument? Refute the messenger!

>>94871319
If your sold comic costs more you cover the losses in that way. In big business everything is about sale numbers and not the price and your shareholders are non the wiser.

>>94871291
Meh they will kill the industry before long. Everytime on of those 1:500 variants doesn't sell, a store takes a massive hit because they have ordered a bunch of Rocket Raccoon comics they have to give away to charity. As long as the collectors keep buying the variants the LCS can survive but that didn't end up well in the 90s and it won't end up well now. Every year LCS shut down by the thousands. They "win" in that they make money out of LCS, not the readers, but they can't keep that charade forever

In my LCS they have a bunch of boxes full of unsold comics, 90% red logos there

>>94871342
>>94871272
>>94871171

He's obviously on a diet, and you're making it hard for him to stay on it.

>>94871257
You're implying that the stores only lose money on this deal but if that were true they'd just stop ordering or send them back. And throwing free comics in the trash is no biggie.

>>94871361
>He's obviously on a diet, and you're making it hard for him to stay on it.

Refraining from consuming Marvel comics is getting easier all the time.

>>94871367
>stop ordering
>send them back
>Marvel stops shipping EVERYTHING to you
>DC cannot sustain your shop
Marvel fanboy pls.

who thinks that part of the solution is to go global?

>>94871272
>>94871342
Of course you wouldn't see anything wrong with ut , fatboy.

>>94871367
>send them back
How is non-returnable not sinking in on you? Alonso literally said that it's DC's fault for making their comics returnable for the first 6 issues on why the industry is shit right now.

>>94871319
I don't know their publishing situation but bigger the bulk, lower the price per unit. And depending on their relationship with the printing outlet (I don't know if they actually even own them) they could be getting a retardedly good deal that it makes it basically worth the "PR" of being the market leader. Them losing that tag hits the normie view of them. If marvel isn't "cool" is it still cool to have a tpb in your kids' stack of books at school or in your hand on a subway train.

Whether anyone wants to admit it being the market leader gets you buys from people who just want to own a thing. Like the people who buy Jeffery Archer books to hold and never read.

>>94871351
So the problem is just that they get too many copies that take up space? Just throw them out then.

Marvel is purposefully trying to kill LCS to push everyone to start buying their ripoff digital comics for the same price as physical floppies.

>>94871396
Words sting Anon.

>>94871405
>Alonso literally said that it's DC's fault for making their comics returnable for the first 6 issues on why the industry is shit right now.
I'm stupid so can you explain how returning shit ruins the industry?

>>94871354
>Meh they will kill the industry before long.
Here's hoping.

>>94871385
>>Marvel stops shipping EVERYTHING to you
They can't afford to do that, numbnuts.

>>94871417
If you throw them out sooner or later your local distributor will catch the wind of you and youre fucked.

>>94871422
You would think Diamond would defend themselves by stopping this shit.

>>94871450
Yes they can, you slap couple small shops and everyone else just shuts the fuck up. You literally do this for all kind of things.

>>94871458
Why?

>>94871450
They can, what's 1 or 4 small comic shops lost to Marvel?

>>94871433
The store owners would have to pay to get rid of the extra comics.

>>94871494
Because its bad PR/business for them.
Imagine if you brought some shitty food at the party and the house owner took it out of your hands and threw it in the trash in front of you.

>>94871433
it doesn't, at worst it provides retailers with a safety net that stagnates their profits since they're just getting back the money they spent on the books which Alonso says is a bad thing. At best it allows retailers to order heavy on titles like New Super-Man for the first 6-Months so they can have a risk-free way of evaluating the survival of the title. Sure there's gonna be a drop but it will never be as worse as the drops Marvel gets from their gimmick variants since drops often occur in a less extreme pace than something like Marvel's -50% by the 2nd Issue Drop-Off Rate

>>94870291
It's not a terrible story but it has terrible characterization of Superman

>>94871483
You starts slapping shops around until there are no more shops and you're fucked. You're not going to be selling your floppies anywhere else. Marvel needs LCS more than LCS needs Marvel. Fact.

>>94871528
what, that's not at all how returnable comics works. They rip off the covers making them unsellable, show it to the publishers, and the publishers then reimburse them.

>>94871537
As i clearly stated, all it takes is 1-2 victims and rest fall in line.
You never went to school or what? Army service? Fucking kindergarten?

>>94871530
Isn't bitching on the internet worse PR?

>>94871537
Nah, Marvel is too big so it can survive even if a lot of Comic shops don't sell Marvel but Comic shops can't survive without both of the big 2 since that's usually what people buy.

>>94871548
I misread your post, I assumed you meant what would happen if Marvel had their comics returnable.

>>94871560
Nah,thats just driving pissed off people underground on shitty forums and imageboards

>>94871310
It wouldn't be the reader base Marvel would have to worry about, since readers can bypass physical retailers and buy comics digitally. It's the retailer base that they should be concerned about, given that Marvel is directly affecting their businesses in a negative manner.

>>94871317
For the most part, perhaps. But I'm pretty sure all retailers work in this manner.

>>94871367
Cutting Marvel orders is cutting a solid 45% of your stock, where the other 45% is DC and the final 10% are everybody else. And again, Marvel's comics are non-returnable. While trashing comics is a possibility, it's completely unnecessary.

>>94871537
Anon, if you think they like having to pay to sell something you're an idiot. When they can go to digital and you don't own a thing unless you subscribe to them and pay for the individual issues you'll see why they stopped caring about mom and pop.

>>94871049
Read the second tweet on the left, they are still getting charged for shipping.

>>94871572
Marvel can't survive not selling floppies that's where the big bucks are and if they can't sell them to stores specializing in that then they're fucked. If an LCS owner is taking a hit because of these tactics then they can stop them and just put up a bunch of manga and euro comics and with DC and Image and then Dark Horse, IDW etc they can survive. Even if it means taking a hit for a few months reality will sink on for Marvel and they'll bend over.

>>94871625
Thats a big risk,it might backfire.
Also Marvel can bitch to Disney.

>>94871625
>If an LCS owner is taking a hit because of these tactics then they can stop them and just put up a bunch of manga and euro comics and with DC and Image and then Dark Horse, IDW etc they can survive.
This is the same logic Marvel uses when they overship. Just because you stock it doesn't mean anyone's going to buy it.

>>94871591
Digital will never take the place of print.

>>94871658
This, especially when they cost the same.

>>94871655
Of you're only selling Marvel then you have no right to bitch about them. If they're the reason you're still doing business then you should kiss their ass.

>>94871663
The biggest factor on the publisher side is that with floppies they get their money for the comic months in advance. With digital they can't even get it the same day the person buys the comic when it's done through comixology.

>>94869245
How do you not understand that you're the reason these comics are made? The more pissed off and racist you get the more shit they write about you as a pissed off racist m8. You really need eachother, who would you complain about if it weren't for them huh? It's the same way for them, you feed their rage and they feed yours so keep the indignation engine running

>>94871625
Have you ever seen a comic shop that doesn't sell one of the big 2?

>>94868425
Whats DC's policy with covers and variants? just order or what?

File: marvel's lost customers are hurting dc.png (26KB, 585x173px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 585x173px

>>94871676
This is how things are now, now imagine what happens when what few Marvel readers are left stop coming in altogether.

>>94871658
>>94871681
>new comic comes out
>cbr in like 25 minutes
>no tangible difference
>free
This is why digital fails

>>94871658
>>94871663
Anon, not for you and not for me. I hate trade waiters (you may not, I don't know) and I hate digital (you may not). But all forms of print media have shit the bed consistently. "Never" is just obscenely dumb. It will happen. Printed comics have the added hurdle of their sales process and specific location you have to go.

Print comics aren't sustainable in the long term. As much as I want to pick up my floppies every week for the rest of my life, it likely WILL come to an end before I want it to.

>>94871689
It depends on what Variant, some are shop exclusives but most Variants are just simple ordering so there's no price bump.

How did the comic industry get to be this way, anyway? How did Diamond distribution's model come to be? Why can't retailers return unsold books like how every book store operates?

File: icv2-comichron-2016-format.jpg (111KB, 600x769px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 600x769px

>>94871707
The biggest growth in comics has been in trades. Floppy trade growth has slowed considerably thanks to Marlel.

>>94871290
The entire new52? There's a reason they went back to legacy stuff after it failed.

>>94871703
This is retard logic at it's finest.

>>94871733
That's an actual comics retailer, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to his customers.

>>94871655
The thing is: selling more Euro comics and manga can attract a load of new customers to the shop. Also, eurocomics are far easier to digest, if done right you could tap the casual market and being able to successfully tap the casual market can lead to ridiculous sales numbers. Just take a look at Ducks in Europe.

>>94871723
Trades is where DC shines too. I think some anon had data on the top trade publishers and DC was second and Marvel like 7th or something

>>94871719
Books dont come out on a regular basis like a magazine,you can control the supply/demand and simply ship em off to god knows where.
Also most shitty books dont get published in the first place.

>>94871719
Because Marvel is king and the king does what he wants.

>>94871751
Yeah, Marvel deliberately sabotages their trade sales through higher prices because they don't want them cannibalizing floppy sales.

>>94871719
To a greater or lesser extent, the answer to all those questions is Marvel.

I wish I was kidding.

>>94871719
>How did the comic industry get to be this way, anyway?
Marvel poisoning the well and fucking up in the 90s
>How did Diamond distribution's model come to be?
They're not counted as a monopoly since comics are counted as magazines so no one can step up and tell them to shape up by competing with them
>Why can't retailers return unsold books like how every book store operates?
Happened around the 80s when Specialty Stores (LCS) came around, now it's because just companies don't want to.

>>94871733
>Go to store to pick up book you like
>Other book catches your eye
>But both books
How is that retard logic? If the store admittedly says they don't stock the book you like, why would you go there in the first place?

Is there any reason at all to open your own LCS in the current climate (unless you're already wealthy and just doing it for the hell of it)? Is it possible to turn a decent profit currently?

I mean with all the issues with Diamond and Marvel, not to mention most people just buying their trades from Amazon or even IST nowadays, seems to me that there hasn't been a more hostile environment to open an LCS or to keep an LCS afloat. You might as well open one on Venus for all the good it would do.

>>94870291
There have always been people who didn't like KC anon. Why does that make you feel so threatened.

>>94871723
you're making a separate point and either you don't realize it or you're just being a jackass.

I clearly separated trades from "printed". While it may have been improper "printed" comics in this conversation are clearly floppies.

Yes trades have gone up but they also include graphic novels in there. Trades only exist because of single issues and wouldn't be able to meet the order levels if they didn't have their own backing from said issues (or a kickstarter or something). If marvel didn't have single issues of America, or wasn't getting revenue from the online streaming or purchasing, then they will not spend money on a physical trade. Which also brings us to the point that, yes trades and GNs are selling better but those combine the digital and physical sales of those.

>>94871719
Don’t remember in which entry, but this column is pretty great about some parts of the history of the industry.
http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/

>>94871770
also to support the Diamond one, Marvel tried doing their own distribution system, fucked that up majorly, idiot publishers follow and fail as well, and now we're stuck with Diamond as the only distributor left because they're the only ones that didn't crash and burn

File: what Kingdom Come is actually about.png (174KB, 1584x1054px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 1584x1054px

>>94870516
you're an idiot

I'm kind of surprised LCS's have never syndicated to some extent.

>>94871783
>tried doing their own distribution system
Not only did they try, they bought Heroes World Distribution, the only other distributor left beside Diamond.

>>94871795
USA has big tendency to fuck syndies up the ass,unless its the holywood jewish ones.

>>94871297
Byrne was established during his X-Men run. Fantastic Four made him a viable writer and proved that he wasn't a one-note with X-Men.

>>94871719
Distributors used to rip the covers off and sell comics at a discount while still getting their money back for sending the cover of the unsold book.

The publishers caught on and started making them buy in advance as if it were drugs they were selling. Basically they fronted them an OZ of comics because the store thinks it can flip the OZ in the two weeks or a month cycle. If they can't sell it the money comes from their pocket and so they buy a half next month (at more per unit) and try to sell that.

Supermarkets and newstands decided that was for the birds and doubled down on paparazzi shit and the like.

At least that's how I understand it to have happened. I could be wrong.

>>94871785
That anon seems to be blaming suits for things Liefeld, McFarlane, and Larsen were perfectly fine to do on their own.

>>94871770
People don't go to an LCS to pick up their issues of Whor and Iron Heart and they might pick up an occasional Batman. Marvel is not the be all end all of comics, motherfucker.

>>94871061
>Gen X
Otherwise known as the last generation to buy lots of comics.

>>94871815
Nope. X-Men became a hit when Paul Ryan came.
You could very well say that Cockrum was estabilished during his X-Men run.

For Byrne, FF was a breakout, along with Superman

>>94871774
Fuck off Mark Waid was the GOAT comic book writer until social media broke him.

So...seeing you all discuss older arcs and history...how old are you assholes anyway.

>>94871814
Times are changing, and I don't see why a LCS would be against it. Even a loose coalition could put serious pressure on even the Big 2.

But these days you have even the far right looking to revive unions. the Ultra Capitalists are the and left don't like it, but hey. Workers rights and shit.

>>94871827
exactly what I meant. People who normally just go for Whor and REEREE can have their attention grabbed by an Image comic that wasn't prominently marked. They can't do that if the number of times they go to the LCS is diminished

>>94871839
The biggest, most influential x-stories were Claremont/Byrne's Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past.

>>94871777
Trades are still print, dummy.

>>94871851
You're likely older than me and I feel old around here. People legitimately asking "what is a lenticular?" kinda told me we have some teenagers on /co/.

>>94869169
>>94870428
it's the same technique. retro-reflective ridged material that reflects different images to different angles. it can be used to create a 3D effect by having slightly different images, or various animation effects. it was big in the 90s.

>>94871848
Mark Waid has written some great books, shame what happened to him.

>>94871851
Turning 21 on Saturday

>>94871319
Marvel is subsidized by Disney. They aren't actually profitable.

>>94871863
It's like you don't understand what I wrote.
Byrne during X-Men run was an upcoming artist. He still wasn't a big star. He became LATER.

>>94871785
Screencapping your own posts is just sad.

>>94871884
He became a star artist with X-Men, though sure the star writer part came later.

>>94868425
ITT: People so preoccupied with company wars they fail to notice that we're in the later stages of a comic book boom and the massive commercial fuckery that has swamped comics for the better part of two decades is now breaking, which means the structure of the comic industry is going to have to change drastically to survive.

By voting with your money and not buying books to spite Marvelcucks or DCucks or whoever the fuck, not buying into event comics any more, or synergy tie ins or rehashes, legacy heroes or token characters, Nazification dumbassery, mouthpiecing and general masturbatory schemes, and instead supporting good writing, varied characters and new, interesting ways of consuming and creating comic books, we can help reshape the future of the medium.

The time is now, you worthless losers. Change the thing you hate into something you love and are proud of.

>>94871905
We'll have to agree to disagree, because I don't feel like writing a wall of text.

Read marvel's untold story for starters, though
Then read Shooter's blog

>>94871848
So mad.

>>94871785
This was probably the dumbest thing I have ever read.

>>94871925
>Marvel Having PR Disasters One After Another
>Diversiteen Gimmick Failed
>HYDRA CAP OUTRAGE Gimmick Failed
>Le Artist don't push the needle got them some terrible feedback
>It's Image's/Indie Publisher's fault and not ours that they're poaching all our good writers and we're stuck with Tumblords
>INDUSTRY CHANGING COVERS made people question why they were even following Marvel
>DC going strong by just making stories that aren't absolute fucking dogshit at worse
It already is

>>94871930
Eat my dick you stupid fucking contrarian.

>>94868425
First they crashed the industry, now they crash themselves. Amazing.

>>94871978
>>Le Artist don't push the needle got them some terrible feedback
Reminder that most people forgot about that, plenty of artists came to the moron's defense and Marvel has better artists right now.

>>94872023
Marvel has like Samnee, Noto, Cheung, DelMundo, Immonen, Bachalo as their good artists for me with Cheung as the only one even having a fraction of someone like Jim Lee's pull. Jim Lee made Suicide Squad stay on the Top 100 even with a garbage film and only being there for half of an issue.

>>94872071
I ignored the non-exlusive non-loyalists, also I guess I forgot Sorrentino and Yu

>>94871993
Your posts are almost as boring as Waid's FF run, anon. You're the better writer, though.

>>94869629
>>94869851
Even if the character in question is unimportant to certain readers, it still matters when feminists and SJWs twist and distort those characters to suit their schemes. Because it's not an isolated incident. It keeps happening.

It's like finding a cockroach in your house. One roach may not seem important in that moment, but it's never just one roach. There's many more congregating within the walls of your home that haven't made themselves known yet. But they eventually do, and at that point your house has a serious infestation problem.

>>94868479
Haven't they been forcing paid surplus into orders for years now. I remember that Scottish feller bitching about it.

>>94872071
The garbage movie was a hit though, Jim Lee's shitty schedule hurt the pacing of the title since he'd only draw like 12 pages. Convenient he left so early despite the fact that all comics drop in sales after the first several months until they stabilize. And although popular Jim Lee is trash.
Marvel still has Acuna, Dauterman, Smallwood, Kudder, Saiz, Irving, Ward, Foreman, Walta...

>>94872185
Just don't reply anon, they're so much shills, larpers and actual Sjws on /co/ these days.

>>94871858
Riri and Jane confirmed as draws. Carrying your stupid industry on their goddamn backs.

>>94872219
True.

>>94872158
Shut the fuck up you stupid contrarian Waid's FF is one of the best FF runs.

>>94872071
>>94872196
>Marvel has all these artists guys!
And they also have the worst inkers and colorists in the industry so their art looks like shit. Compare the Marvel work of any of the listed names to their DC or indy work and it's a night and day difference.

>>94872249
It's boring. You're boring and fat.

>>94872265
What a drone-y thing to say.

>>94872228
Jane actually was carrying Marvel, but the sales keep slipping ever and ever downward. Now Marvel's tentpole books are Amazing Spider-Man and the x-line (somehow, but they're slipping fast as more and more people catch on that "We're really going to fix the X-Men this time" was a lie)

>>94871689
With regular issues it has just been order Cover A or Cover B.
With the lenticular stuff from "The Button," the issues were $1 more compared to normal, and had to be ordered a bit earlier than regular, but there were no additional hoops for the LCS to go through.

>>94872307
Waid is a legendary and respected writer in this industry no matter what you and a few other conttarians say. The reality makes you seethe.

>>94871216
Didn't Gail Simone say that Marvel fans will overly praise everything that Marvel does while DC fans will overly criticize everything that DC does?

>>94872196
Dauterman seems solid, but Saiz and Acuna at least are terrible for a regular monthly for the same reason Lee is terrible.

>>94871171
>Allow me to use a food analogy
Stopped reading right there.

>>94872367
I only read Jean Grey, All New Wolverine, and X-Men Blue, and didn't really read much X-Men before except for Whedon's run. How is the current push on X-Men failing to fix them?

>>94869192
Because you're bitching about a single comic that lasted 8 issues. The fact that you are still bitching shows how clueless you are when it comes to comics.

Come back when you don't have a regurgitated opinion about marvel.

>>94869400
Is it still institutionalized stupidity if they're making money from it?

>>94869789
That's pretty normal, for comics anyways.


>>94869685
Chink> Chineese
Nip> Nippon> Japan
Gook> Hangook> Korean

>>94869697
>>94869319
Technical precision.

This is the internet hate machine. Don't expect to get by with some half assed, poorly used racial slurs. We have quality standards to uphold.

>>94868763
>Fuck one of them is a huge CassFag who actually praised Batman and Robin Eternal

Anyone who praises that shitpaper is not a true Cassfag. She was completely out of character there.

>>94872410
They're still not telling stories I'm interested in reading.

>>94872379
Isn't she just saying Marvel is bad and DC is good? That's what it sounds like.

>>94872410
X-men Gold has been pretty mediocre so far.


I think what a lot of people have in mind when they want the X-men to be fixed includes them having really high sales like back in the 1990s.
Regarding sales, the new main x-titles (Blue and Gold) are selling high for the modern market, but also underperforming. X-men: Blue #7 sold roughly the same as Superman #27 last month. That is crazy to think about because one is only seven issues into its run, and is being outsold by something that has had 14 months of sales attrition already.

>>94872385
No, Lee is just terrible.

>>94872480
Okay. What stories from X-Men are you interested in? What are some writers and periods you think they should attempt to imitate and build upon?

>>94868763
Difio is an idiot. Based Cereal Lord saving us from his reign of terror.

>>94872535
That's goofy, though. Sales are a fraction of sales in the 90s across the board, no matter what title.

I've heard that about Gold - I got the first issue free, read it (with the newly updated non-Islamic propagandic art! :) ), and thought, "eh, I don't care about anything Gugg's doing. And I don't like Gugg as a writer."

Don't forget that Superman also has 28 issues of attrition - it doesn't have normal monthly attrition because it's double shipping. Blue and Gold are also double shipping, but they didn't start with the ceiling of Rebirth, so they're plummeting faster.

>>94872562
Call a Mulligan on everything Bendis did and go back to build off of Gillen's Rightclops Saga.

>>94868425
Doesn't Disney own Marvel now? Does that mean they're in charge of the comics and marketing too? Its not really like Disney to fuck up shit like this.

But I'm not terribly familiar with the industry so who knows.

>>94872609
Superman and X-Men Gold both launched at similar 100,000+ numbers, X-Men Gold falling harder is all on it.

>>94872265
DC has terrible inkers and colorists they just recently hoped up on the Jordie hype train while Marvel has had a long running relationship with her.

File: gary kek.png (209KB, 233x439px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 233x439px

>>94872410
>we're really going to fix the X-Men this time

Will any Marvel employees actually call this practice shit or will they conveniently stay quiet and go back to shitposting about DC? Better yet, bets on which Marvel writers actually think this is a good idea?

>>94872615
That sounds like a good plan. I do hate the way Real Cyclops was murdered and villified. And the way Emma's being shilled as Hitler now.

>>94872653
I thought Gold's numbers were because of the controversy?

>>94872652
Disney's always been pretty hands-off with its subsidiaries. Marvel would have to do something precipitous before the Mouse stepped in.

>>94872652
>Doesn't Disney own Marvel now? Does that mean they're in charge of the comics and marketing too? Its not really like Disney to fuck up shit like this.
They do, but they've already taken what they've wanted the movie studio. For the most part they leave Marvel alone. If they continue fucking things up, they'll go the way of other Disney subsidiaries and they'll probably just close everything up and license the toys, comics, etc. to other companies to make.

>>94872707
Dude if you call the company you're working for shit even if its true, you'll be canned and noone else will hire you.

>>94872715
Those numbers were locked in before anyone knew about the Syaf stuff in the issue.

>>94872562
I think they need to cut the infighting and drama and just go back to world saving heroics

>>94872739
True. Huh. Why were people more hype for Gold? Gugg is so mediocre.

>>94872741
Well, you could apply that across the board at Marvel. STOP HAVING HEROES FIGHT HEROES.

>>94871774
>every KC story time thread gets ruined by contrarian shitposters

I wonder why

>>94872763
Well other than the #1 factor, retailers didn't have much faith in it (as they were right to have). Issue 2, which was shipped in the same month, dropped all the way down to 62,283.

>>94872715
>controversy
What controversy?

>>94870093
Okay, so what kind of things could Marvel make in 2017 to attract people who will turn into middle-aged nerds in the future?

>>94872854
But why Gold and not Blue?

>>94872870
Ardian Syaf's pro-Islamicist stuff - putting "JEW" behind Kitty's head, referencing an anti-Jewish and Christian verse from the Qu'ran on Coloussus's shirt, and another thing.

>>94871719
EVERYTHING that killed comics is Marvel and Image's fault.

>>94872905
Injustice style spectacle unfortunately. Injustice was huge with teens and Taylor's writing the best selling comic Laura's ever had because he knows how to deliver the happenings on a regular basis. Snyder's pretty much the same way.
>>94872940
Blue fell even harder in the same month.

>>94871925
>we're in the later stages of a comic book boom

not according to industry sales numbers and everyone who isn't a retarded unemployable faggot on the internet with 0 business knowledge

>>94871925
Why do you think retailers are losing their minds and Marvel's resorting to these tactics?

Because people ARE voting with their wallets.

>>94872970
Well, I think the fall is because the controversy kept Gold in the fan's minds, while Blue had no "story" to attach to it. But the initial orders are what I'm curious about - why was Gold higher than Blue? Do people really not like the O5 very much?

>>94873061
Kittyfags

>>94869126
>next line wide event

Doomsday clock isn't really line wide. Even Metal is being contained, which is great since I could give two fucks about it and all the things I do care about (like is there going to be a Challenger or Tornado mini or something), I can find out via browsed story-times.

I think we're more likely to see the things like Superman Year One and those prestige format, extra pages but slightly more expensive books (which hopefully will be a bit more coherent than the Supergirl book).

>>94873061
The O5 are a forced meme, yes. No one cared about them in the 60s, no one cared about them in X-Factor, they're just misplaced nostalgia.

>>94869227
You devolved the argument yourself. So, you know. You were being retarded. Just wanted to let you know that.

>>94871925
worst post in the thread

>>94872940
I completely forgot about those.

>>94873081
Does she really have that much of a following?

>>94873114
Huh. Interesting. Their current situation does have the ring of "throw some random stuff at the wall and see if it sticks." I still enjoy it, though.

>>94872970
So to appeal to people, Marvel needs to make the current comics have more violent fighting and moral grayness.

>>94869319
>>94869685
>>94872435
"Gook" is military slang for "communist". It was used to describe the soviets throughout the cold war. If you read old military novels from that era it's used frequently.

>>94873152
If Whedon, Bendis, Aaron, Gugg, etc. all obsess over her, seems that their age demographic would have a lot of fans.

>>94872905
Marvel Studios is literally what comics used to be when they were popular, in modern form.

Just make a comic version of that with the same caliber of writing and photorealistic art.

>>94873177
Secret Empire tries to be that but its problem is that it takes itself way too seriously. Watch as Dark Nights completely dominates its sales from month to month.

>>94873110
>Superman Year One
>slightly more expensive

It's a 100 page graphic novel. It'll be $10 if we're lucky.

>>94873280
So there needs to be less generic narration and more things like Pymtron or the Iron Man AI wishing to be a real boy.

>>94873392
More like Zero narration and no deaths.

>>94873205
>"Gook" is military slang for "communist"
And "fag" used to mean a cigarette. Words change meaning all the time.

>>94869400
>Disney takes the IP's they paid for, disentagles as much control from marvel as possible and continues to print money. Which lets every one at marvel off the hook.
I doubt this will last forever. Last year Disney shut down their videogames division, even though Disney Infinity was making money and was the #1 toy-to-life franchise. Disney didn't care and shut it down, not because it was losing money, but because it wasn't making enough. Now they just license their stuff to third party developers.

I don't think they would do the same to Marvel, the bad PR could be too much, but I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing most of the top people 'retire' in the short future.

>>94873492
Even with shit like The Lone Ranger being money sinks?

>>94873392
Yep. Just about everyone loved that Pymtron issue. Imagine how different the reception to SE would be if the entire series had that tone.

File: panic on the streets of the matrix.jpg (6KB, 136x199px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 136x199px

mfw the sheep are finally waking up

>>94869192
>just because i hate misandric cunts im a /pol/fag?
Literally yes.

We've reached a bullshit Event horizon. Until Marvel stops fucking their standbys and doing shitty business, DC has a free pass. The only other way this can possibly stop is if DC does something worse.

>>94873673
Which probably shouldn't be discounted as a possibility.

>>94871049
Allow me to use a dildo analogy. Imagine you buy a nice big black dildo from ebay. The seller tells you it'll be $14.99 + shipping (to be paid upon delivery). You agree. 3 days later the Fedex guy knocks on your door.
>I've got the dildos you ordered, xir!
He immediately starts unloading dozens of boxes.
>It'll be $98.79 for shipping
>But wait! I only ordered one dildo!
>Seems like the seller decided to send some extra rough cactus dildos, free of charge of course! But, you have to pay for all the shipping, though. I can't give you your black dildo if you don't take responsibility for the whole shipment.

You pay, of course, because your heart was really set on that one big black dildo, but are now left with less money and dozens of boxed cactus dildos littering your garage, as nobody else wants them.

>>94873883
Are any of the cactus dildos in limited edition foil embossed boxes?

>>94873968
Why do you think the shipping is so high?