Is there a reason why these characters are considered racist

very few people give a shit about flapjack

>>94777340
Look at them and tell me

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>>94777387
They look like the Fat Albert crew in crow form.

Well there's the fact that "crow" was a racial epithet at the time. There was them hiring black people to sing, but once they started talking they used white voice actors doing a mediocre impression. Then there's the clothes.

Is there a database of racist Disney characters? I've just always found it so strange how the sjw side of the Disney fandom raves and argues about Disney's attention to diversity and representation, but never brings attention to the fact that there's some pretty questionable stuff all throughout their history. As if Disney is and has always been a company that cared about that sort of thing.

>>94777340
Bubbie wasn't a reference to Jim Crow laws and is actually voiced by a black woman.

>>94777597
I think considering that everyone who worked on Dumbo is probably dead at this point (or definitely retired and not working for Disney), then maybe it would be pointless to dredge it up?

What the people running an organization do now is more important than what the previous administration did in the past.

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>People accuse them of being racist stereotypes
>Are the only ones in the entire film apart from the mouse that empathize and befriend Dumbo
>The only ones that help Dumbo by giving him confidince
>Because of their help Dumbo becomes a star
>At the end seen flying by the side of the train by Dumbo as his friends
If anything isn't it progressive since the only coded black characters were the one with the most humanity in a society that was cold and prejudiced towards people that were different?

Yeah the obsession with this kind of shit is stupid. I bet it was a realistic stereotype at the time and it's like, even today I don't think it's that much of a brutal stereotype compared to other major ethnic stereotypes like italians, irish etc.

I mean, why is anyone offended by this kind of stuff today when no one is like that in real life anymore, if they ever were?

Because they're jive talking crows with a clear allusion to black people created in a time where similar caricatures were used to disparage black folks. And that sets off people's alarms even if you could just sit back and see despite being stereotypical in their actions they were still good people and not portrayed as stupid as to imply black are.

>>94777848
A character can be nice and also be a racist stereotype.

>>94777514
Shit, if a white animator made a cartoon with black characters that looked like this they'd run him out of business.

>>94778184

I wouldn't say that people these days are offended, so much as they are disappointed that a company like Disney would have ever put characters as blatantly racist as those crows in any of their movies.

>>94778355

Dude, have you ever seen "Coal Black"? White guys made that whole thing and it's considered one of the best cartoons of all time in spite of being racist as fuck.

>>94778397
>'s considered one of the best cartoons of all time
So is Dumbo even though people have a problem with the crows.

>>94778397
Is it really considered one of the best?

>>94778300
But racist stereotypes are usually hated and discouraged because they are meant to be demeaning. It may be a stereotype, but can it be racist when the character's in question are humanizing and are meant to be idolized for their goodness?

>>94778475

Yep. It has made "best of" lists by animators and historians in the past - again, in spite of it being racist as fuck.

>>94778493

Even a positive stereotype can be harmful - for example, the idea that black people somehow feel less pain because they're black has led to lots of issues in the medical world, to say nothing of the medical experimentation done on black people in the time before the Civil Rights Movement, and it continues to this day with doctors and nurses routinely underestimating the amount of pain that black people feel.

>>94777653
Only the lead crow was voiced by a white guy, the other actors were all black.

>>94777566
What does that have to do with them being racist with 7yo me loving those characters because you find them offensive?

>>94778397
I've seen it, but I was talking about nowadays. Viewed from the lenses of today's PC culture, the Fat Albert crew with their inflated lips and huge buck teeth look like racist caricatures.

I think there should be a difference between racist and racial, most fictional shit like the crows isn't racist, hell I don't even think Coal Black is racist.

>>94778562
>Even a positive stereotype can be harmful
Alright fair enough. My next question is why is it okay to make fun of some stereotypes but other's are off limits? Just a couple of days ago the new Ducktales reboot episodes released and it was filled to the brim with stereotypical Scottish jokes.

Should stereotypes we make fun of in jest be limited to history? Are black jokes in general out of line? What about gay and Asian jokes? Hell, what about Irish jokes?

>>94777566
>There was them hiring black people to sing, but once they started talking they used white voice actors doing a mediocre impression.
Only the leader of the gang, Jim Crow, was voiced by a white actor. All the other crows were performed by black actors, including Hall Johnson and Nick Stewart.

>>94778893
And James Baskett (Uncle Remus in Song of the South)

>>94778710

"Coal Black" is absolutely racist. Every character besides So White is portrayed as basically being blackface characters.

>>94778844

The jokes about the Scottish are rooted in culture, not in racist ideals or stereotypes - and besides, they have an actual Scot working on the show, so I doubt stuff like that would go unnoticed or unchallenged if it was going to piss off David Tennant.

>>94778893
>>94778632
Not to mention that hiring different VA's, one for a characters speaking voice and another for their singing voice is a common thing Disney did.

>>94778928
didnt Coal black have a bunch of black actor/animators?
i remeber reading that somewhere

Man I wish artistic integrity or whatever you call it had more...integrity these days and shows weren't so fucking beholden to soccer moms and other shit like that.

I really get a kick out of racist humor sometimes and there needs to be more of it. Thank fuck american culture in general is becoming more offensive recently, well half of it while the other half becomes more offendable and thin-skinned than ever, so maybe cartoons will have an edgy attitude era soon. Not to mention that other things like wrestling and comics need another attitude era too.

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>>94777340
Because they were made by white animators
That's the only reason
When black person make a cartoon about blacks it's ok

>>94778844
>it was filled to the brim with stereotypical Scottish jokes.
Like other anon said, those jokes are rooted in a culture that isn't the result of negativity. So a scottish character eating haggis is fine. But not a black character eating fried chicken and watermelon.

The other thing is that there is more to Scrooge and Glomgold than "being scottish". All the kids in Xiaolin Showdown are stereotypes, but that isn't all they are. I mean, Omi is literally yellow-skinned, just like Samurai Jack, but because he's a developed character, it's excused. Khan from King of the Hill is a big Asian stereotype, but that is used as a base to craft a well-developed character.

And the last thing is that whether or not people get offended by it has a lot to do with it. Even if there was a character who only played bagpipes, ate haggis, and went around flaunting his kilts, people wouldn't care. And stereotypes are only an issue because people care enough to complain about them. It's like how no one gives a shit about New York "'ey, I'm walkin' here!" caricatures or Southern hillbilly characters enough to complain, so they get a free pass.

>>94779130

>I really get a kick out of racist humor sometimes and there needs to be more of it.

Yeah, the world needs more of us mocking black people for being lazy, trifling, good-for-nothing niggers.

>>94779146
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAtv9IW0mo0

One of the best side characters in Boondocks.

>>94779193
Seriously. Maybe not that kind of barrage of insults but SOMETHING.

>>94778928
>hey have an actual Scot working on the show
That doesn't seem to matter considering Song of the South stars a black man for the live action parts and has a black guy doing all the voices for the cartoon portion and it's still banned.

>>94779193
not just niggers, crackers, spics, chinks, japs, kikes
Everyone needs to be taken the piss out of

>>94777514
HEY HEY RAPE!

>>94779346
Anyone else think that's total bullshit and a giant scam? I general don't believe most sex scandals when I hear about them but the Cosby shit is some extra bullshit.

bump for more racial discussion

>>94779456
I think he mightve molested a couple of people then some gold digging hoes caught wind of it and jumped on the bandwagon.
i dont think he's 100% innocent
mabey 70/80%

Bubbie wasn't a living reference to Jim Crowe laws.

>>94777848

Uncle Remus was also adorable. That doesn't make it right.

>>94779196
I'm actually dying.

>>94777737


>they're all dead
>pointless to dredge it up

Anon, these are the same people that want reparations for slavery and to tear down statues

>>94777340
Because racism is no longer a principled concept. Its definition and application have been radically altered by fascists, and it is now the primary weapon in the arsenal of totalitarians. Racism in 2017 is a karma bomb, an inescapable accusation of moral inferiority, which is, in turn, used as justification for the abrogation of rights and social privileges for those who act against the entrenched political class.

The ultimate irony is that the ability to accuse someone else of racism has become the most powerful form of social privilege, and is used by those who insist social privilege is denied to them. It is no longer considered a racist action to destroy someone's life or property because of their skin color, so long as the action can be justified as "fighting racism."

It has become the unclean enemy of Abrahamic faiths, and is used similarly. A new crusade is burgeoning in the streets, and will commit atrocities equal to those sanctioned by the Vatican centuries ago. Prepare yourselves accordingly.

>>94780104
They want to tear down statues to bury the evidence that they're the ones who erected those statues in the first place, and they would erect them again if they were payed to.

>>94777340
This is the first time I've seen crows depicted as rayciss.
This is getting ridiculous.

>>94778300
If you subvert a stereotype, it's not a stereotype anymore. That's pure logic.

>>94777340
>Its another racist white people(redundant I know) don't understand why racist things are racist episode

As a black person, those depictions never bothered me because they were simply a product of their time
I don't know why people get upset over shit that happened before they were born

>>94778397
It's great, you're a weak faggot.

>>94780903
>When everything is racist, nothing is.
Sleep tight knowing that everything from Charlottesville to Berkeley is your fault.

>>94780104
>>94780707
Why does there even need to be statues? All the people those statues are of are dead, so it's pointless to dredge them up.

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>>94780903

>>94780104
Well the statues are kind of stupid though. Guys who lost the war don't deserve statues. You don't see Europe cluttered up with statues of Kaiser Wilhelm or big monuments to Napoleon in England or Russia.

Reparations for slavery also isn't really a talking point that you hear much of at all in modern conversations - the big though now seems to be more about stuff like incarceration rates and police violence.

>>94778397
Yeah it won awards because the guys who made it were jewish not white. Its ok to make fun of schwartzel if youre a jew

>>94779456
Of course its a scam.
There's no way Bill actually raped all those fucking women.
You mean to tell me a black man, raped dozens of white women, and they didn't tell ANYONE about it until he's an old man who probably is about die soon? Its a coordinated, and well thought out effort to try and collect a huge settlement.

>>94779196
God that was such a good fucking show.

>Jim Crow

>>94782259

Is doesn't give you pause that Bill Cosby has admitted under oath to drugging women?

Because if your name was Steve, and there was a character in a named called "Fuck You, Steve, you're garbage" you might not like that character.

>>94778928
Actually it is; most modern ideas of Scottish culture are inventions of the Victorian aristocracy who saw the Scots as noble white savages.

>>94782259
There's been numerous allegations, rumors and lawsuits that were settled for years. When you're as rich and popular as Cosby, it's even harder to come out and accuse someone due to the publicity and shit you get for even suggesting the universally beloved guy is actually a rapist.

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>>94779193
>t. Butthurt coon

Maybe if your people actually acted like human beings everyone would be more inclined to treat you with respect and dignity.

But no, keep sucker punching cops and shit. I'm sure it'll work out eventually

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>>94778397
>Coal Black
>murder inc
Good fucking lord

>>94778674
Well what offends others doesn't have to offend you. If he gave you an answer you didn't like or agree with oh well because it works for others.

>>94778710
I agree with you 100%
I'm a black guy, and I pretty much love shit that blurs the lines between racial and racist comedy about black folk. Dumbo, The Boondocks, Heavy Traffic, Coonskin. I love all that shit, I can't think of anyone who doesn't like a laugh that examines a culture in a somewhat thorough yet thoughtful manner.

Namely because I find that with the right intent, such comedy is actually really insightful for anyone regardless of race.

Though to be fair humor doesn't always translate well. And I can't hold anyone else to the standard of my own sense of humor.

>>94782270
He's Hollywood. Using drugs is like breathing air to those people.

>>94779196
Dat's some good shit nigger!

>>94782376
I'm white and I see your point, but I've been with too many people that feel comfortable essentially telling me that that kind of humour validates their racist views.

>>94782072
we have statues of Napoleon and Kaiser Wilhelm here in the uk

>>94777597
Disney has ALWAYS been progressive. Any discussion of this topic needs to understand that "racist" is 100 percent cultural construct with zero objective nature to it, and that it changes over time, and very rapidly.

I imagine future generations may see Flapjack as racist. As well as Disney's hercules.

>>94778397
In the same way that Birth of A Nation is considered one of the greatest films of all times.

It's seen as a product of it's time. But just TRY making something like that today.

>>94780005
It doesn't make it WRONG either.

>>94780525
What is the best term to describe this, "calling shit racist" privilege, as it's used in modern intersectionality?

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>>94777855
>I bet it was a realistic stereotype

And i bet this is a realistic portrayal of you. Let me know if it's still offensive.

>>94783526
>What is the best term to describe this, "calling shit racist" privilege, as it's used in modern intersectionality?

Racism?

>>94783556
Too much overlap with other uses of the word.

>>94778893
>Only the leader of the gang, Jim Crow, was voiced by a white actor
But why

>>94783608
Because he's an ace character actor. Also it's also likely they were worried about accusations of racisim.

It's why they chose to use a white jazzman for King Louie instead of Louie instead of Louis Armstrong.

Remember that the character is never reffered to as Jim Crow anywhere in the movie itself. And the earliest book calling Dumbo racist doesn't show up until 28 years after the movies' release.