Was Pa Kent retarded?

Maybe...

Snyder was.

>>94749266
That's a weird way to spell Goyer.

>>94749181
>>94749266
f&spbp

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>knew if the world knew of Superman people would go crazy
>literally seen as a god or Jesus 2.0
>Crazy people like Lex say him as the devil incarnate
>Drove Batman mad until M A R T H A since Batman didn't see him as human until then
why does /co/ lack basic comprehension skills?

>>94749168
I don't think so, but he certainly made sure his kid was with his bullshit nu-parenting.

>>94749442
>>literally seen as a god or Jesus 2.0
Yeah, by Zack Snyder.
Also, making everybody act retarded so your stupid choices make sense is shit writing.

>>94749481
I guess you have no idea what the fuck a cult is then, lad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lQxUqmnfU

>>94749523
I don't see how that does anything but emphasize what I said.

>>94749448
> Caring about human life so you genuinely want to help people but are held back by valid fears that your existence will cause upheavals in society...
> Retardation...
It's fucking baffling how your fucking mind words.

>>94749168
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: Hack Snyder should stop making films.

>>94749578
>Somebody helps people
>Both people in favor and against him act cartoonishly crazy, with no nuance or middle ground at all
It's fucking baffling how some writer's minds work.

>>94749442
>ignoring that this only happens because the script demands it to happen
>ignores a shitload of Superman stories that either have Clark finding a way to circumnavigate it by showing what a real hero is like, or just doesn't focus on retarded shit at all.
>ignoring that every Jonathan Kent of every other Superman comic is better than the MOS version and would have agreed that saving the kids was the right thing.

Seriously, the scene is fixed just by Mr.Kent being mad at him for almost exposing himself, to him sitting on his side, putting a hand on his shoulder and them saying with a smile "but I'm proud of you son. You thought on others before yourself".

>>94749442
But that's so fucking stupid. Literally all Batmans grievances with Superman are still there and still valid. None of that changes because he knows Superman has a mother. And Superman still has valid grievances with Batman. None of that shit that the movie spent building up and exploring was solved.

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>>94749578
>33 years old
>no actual job or home, has to move around and work on whatever he can
>probably a virgin and had his first gf with 33
>don't stand up for himself or his beliefs in front of people, instead, destroy their shit on their backs
>balding middle aged man full of doubts in everything of his life
>can't communicate properly with people and has 0 charisma.
>has hallucinations of his dead father that killed himself in front of him, ranbling about dead horses's screams.

>>94749972
Besides, it doesn't change the fact that Batman still killed (either directly or by proxy) villains he knew were human and had moms during the rest of movie anyway.

>>94749993
I gotta recognize that at least it was consistent. Shitty parenting resulted in a shitty kid.

>>94749972
This. The resolution to BvS is "Superman is HUMAN so Batman can trust him!" but it was a movie and a half of "Humans are shit! You can't trust them!"

>>94749993
>>no actual job or home, has to move around and work on whatever he can
On purpose to keep his secret that could cost thousands of lives if revealed. Genocides have happened over smaller thing then godly powerful aliens being revealed to exist.
>>probably a virgin and had his first gf with
Snyder confirmed he was not a virgin & considering how friendly/respectful he was with the waitress & the liking she seemed to have for him it's unlikely he would have a huge trouble getting laid.
>>don't stand up for himself or his beliefs in front of people
Because he doesn't like to punch down.
>>destroy their shit on their backs
Because he has a natural bit of pent up spite after 33 years of taking abuse.
>> full of doubts in everything of his life
Because he is a fucking alien with no idea where he came from or why.
>>can't communicate properly with people and has 0 charisma.
Your confusing him INTENTIONALLY being a fly on the wall with him not being capable of doing otherwise.
And he had plenty of charisma with Lois.

>>94750031
>Teaching your kid that lives inherently have value but the big picture matters even more...
>Shitty parenting...

>>94750328
>teaching your kid that lives inherently have value
>"Should I have let those kids die?"
>"Maybe idk lol."

>>94750328
>Teaching your kid that lives inherently have value but the big picture matters even more...
>Shitty parenting...
He fucking killed himself rather than let Clark (who moves at SUPER SPEED) save their dog!

>>94750407
>Pa Kent's shitty parenting literally killed him
Like pottery

>>94750328
>Genocides have happened over smaller thing then godly powerful aliens being revealed to exist.
How would Superman's reveal result in a fucking genocide?

>Because he doesn't like to punch down.
He doesn't need to. He just has to act like a man, not necessarily a superhuman. Instead he goes behind the guy's back like some passive aggressive piece of shit.

>after 33 years of taking abuse.
Taking abuse from whom and why? Did the bullies keep following him around for 33 years?
Why hasn't he learned to stand up for himself in all that time? Again, I don't mean breaking shit but simply acting like any man with an ounce of self respect would.

>Because he is a fucking alien with no idea where he came from or why.
This would've made sense if he was 19 like in the Earth One graphic novel some of the movie was based on. By 33 he should've come to terms with it already, otherwise he just comes off as an immature manchild.

>>94749168

I liked Kevin Costner Kent. Yeah, "stop invisible son" was a horrible scene but what he lacked in spelled-out moral guidance he made up for with his clear, fierce love for Clark. If nothing else Snyder made it abundantly clear that, in Kansas, Superman learned that he was a citizen of Earth first and foremost and that humanity is his people.

Costner Kent was darker than most, but I don't think he's the complete loss a lot of people write him off as. His lessons for Clark are less direct than the let-me-spell-out-for-you-how-you-should-live-a-moral-life Pa Kent of the comics, but they still plausibly lead up to Superman becoming Superman (plus "you are my son" genuinely gets me).

Would I have done Pa Kent this way? Probably not. But I don't hate it.

>>94749481
Being seen as a god-like figure isn't new

>>94749168
Seriously, if you kept that entire speech but replaced "Maybe" with "Of course not, but" then it would have been a good scene and made Pa a much better character.

>>94750565
>If nothing else Snyder made it abundantly clear that, in Kansas, Superman learned that he was a citizen of Earth first and foremost and that humanity is his people.

In this very thread you has a snydercuck >>94750328 defending that Clark was an alien autist who couldn't communicate and interact with humanity as others because he saw himself as an alien.

>>94750382
>Should I expose myself and put other people at risk in trying to catch me and treat me as a god or monster
>or
>Save these people and never have any peace since the media would hound me for the rest of me and my family's lives
Not save them
>Not save them and live with the guilt for the rest of my life.
Not save them, but use this even to try harder in helping people without exposing myself.

>>94750382
He taught him such earlier in life hence Clark wanting to help them to begin with.
He wasn't meaning the "mabye" literally he was saying it to get his point across how dire his concerns are.
Of course you choose to ignore his following line "there is more at stake then our lives or the lives of those around us".
>>94750407
They have no idea how fast Clark is. And no he tried to save the dog because he wanted Clark to save Martha & the little girl, again PRIORITIES.

>>94750539
>How would Superman's reveal result in a fucking genocide?
Muslims or other fanatics mass murdering people to spite the being that proves their god false.
Governments going to war for supporting/harboring him.
>>94750539
>He just has to act like a man
It's not going to be very lowkey for him to bafflingly easily throw the bar guy out on his ass.
>but simply acting like any man with an ounce of self respect would.
People's lives are more fucking important then our individual egos.
>By 33 he should've come to terms with it already
"He should have come to terms with something no human on earth has ever experienced or had to deal with in the time frame I say so.

>>94750639
>defending that Clark was an alien autist who couldn't communicate and interact with humanity as others because he saw himself as an alien.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, that is not what I am arguing AT ALL. I am arguing that he CHOOSE to not interact with them for their overall safety (and because they are chaotic & untrustworthy) not because he was incapable of doing so or didn't identify with them.

>>94750859
>Muslims or other fanatics mass murdering people to spite the being that proves their god false.
>Governments going to war for supporting/harboring him.
That didn't happen. You can't keep saying it would've when aliens got revealed and none of that happened.

Look the thing you guys are forgetting to account for is that according to Snyder, Goyer, Jonathan, the vocal minority that is the DCEU fans, and everything about the DCEU, humanity is shit.

>>94750687
>FUCK YOU DAD YOU WERE A VILLAIN ALL ALONG!

Nah.
He's just not perfect.
People just can't accept that and throw an autistic shit fit.

If you people can't understand what is going through Jonathan's mind by reading his body language, listening to his tone, or empathzing with his situation, please never have children because you will be shit parents.

>>94750901
>(and because they are chaotic & untrustworthy
Except they weren't. So it was all for nothing.

>>94751202
>They weren't
Washington is a crater, just to fuck with him.

>>94751001
It doesn't matter if it happened or not. The concern is still valid and based on the facts of humanities past.
This is like saying because a woman went to a lonely park in a bad neighborhood to jog and didn't get raped that means it was wrong for her to buy mace.
Or just because you didn't crash means it was ok for you to drive drunk.

>>94751026
And yet STILL worth saving as individuals are good even if the whole is more likely to do bad then good.
We are not fucking asking for these heroes to not have faith/hope in humanity we are simply asking that they prepare for the worst case scenario regardless.

>>94751384
Preparing for the worst case scenario with cowardice and paranoia isn't heroic.

>>94751415
Nothing cowardly about staying hidden for the greater good.
Sure as fuck more heroic then going off half cocked because you care more about being "heroic" then you care about peoples fucking lives.
And being aware of current events isn't paranoia, Muslims bomb their own people DAILY.

>>94749168
"I hear dying horses Clark! Every waking hour I hear their death throes! I was a child and it's all my fault! I should have let my family drown instead! Like you should have with that bus full of children! I thought tornado suicide would be the end of my torment, but the horses... I see them now Clark! The haunt my afterlife, watching them drown again, and again for eternity!"


What did Snyder mean by this?

>>94749481
Oh come on... Pa Kent screwing up Clark with his bullshit outlook on life can't be laid completely at Snyder's feet. Snyder's not an idiot, I'm sure he knows how to raise well-adjusted kids!

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>>94749181
Quality post

>>94749168
I get what he was trying to get at, but "let them die" was a horribly edgy and extreme way to get it across.

He was too honest and realistic for a superhero movie. In our reality Pa Kent's advice about keeping a low profile would make perfect sense, it would only be a matter of time before the government figured out who the guy flying around calling himself "Superman" was and Clark's chances of living a normal life would be out the window. People like to shit on him for saving the dog himself instead of sending his indestructible son but that sounds like what any concerned father would do in that situation, especially one who doesn't know the full limits of his son's potential and whether or not he could survive a tornado. It was a shitty movie but it made sense.

I just hate the fucking tornado. A heart attack is much more poetic.

>>94749442
Maybe he should've had faith in the son he raised and the world at large like all other Pa Kent's do.

>>94752591
Too bad the world would then eventually get visited by aliens and all sorts of cosmic threats that lying low and trying to live a normal life would be all but impossible.

>>94752591
No the sense would have been to let the fucking dog die. it wasn't even consistent and it made it's point terribly.

>>94752634
>Superman gets tormented by visions of his dog

I don't know if that's a better or worse sign of his mental state

>>94752660
>some dumb dog or your dad
This isn't even a choice.

>>94749168
>caring about his son more than the other kids
>somehow a negative
Do you hate your parents or did your parents hate you?

>>94749481
>>94749897
>>94749972
Do you idiots even humanity? That's exactly what would happen. In real life.

>>94753005
Snyder's characters don't usually act like actual humans to begin with, they make monologues all the time and have usually a very retarded and unnatural dialogue. Also, comics and cartoons have dealed with it in way better ways.

If you want to do something different, at least try being good at it.

>>94752660
Pa Kent was a rust belt American farmer.
He really would never have gone for the dog.

I think that overall MOS got too much shit, but I'll never be able to call it a good film purely for the way it utterly ruined the Kents. The aspect of two normal kindhearted people being the ones who made Superman, the ones who adopted an orphan alien and raised him into a good man who has devoted his life to the service of others was, to me, probably the most inspiring and appealing part of Superman's whole mythos. One of the aspects that is beautiful in its message and simplicity and that it should be utterly impossible to fuck up. Now it's ruined.

>>94753718
>You need to grow up and spend your entire life saving people while wearing a cape and red underwear over your pants, son. All lives are precious.
>But fuck dogs, you can always buy a new one. They're literally worthless. I don't want you to ever save a single one, son. If one ends up dead they deserved to die.

- Jonathan Kent, a father of the year winner since 1939.

>>94749181
Underated post

>>94753005
I don't fucking watch comic book movies for real life shit, faggot.

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>>94749168

listen to the real pa kent

http://comicbook.com/2015/03/13/smallvilles-john-schneider-dislikes-man-of-steels-jonathan-kent/


>“I love Kevin, and I love what Kevin does. But I didn’t care for one scene in there, where Jonathan was advising Clark to do something that was self-serving, it was tell a lie, I can’t remember exactly what it was. I think Jonathan Kent is the best dad perhaps ever depicted on television. And I don’t mean my work, I just mean the man I was fortunate enough to play. He was a great father, and I don’t think the one in Man of Steel was a great father. He had some flaws that don’t belong in a comic book. I really had wished that had been me.”

>>94750502
Quite unlike Snyder's own kid, in which case shitty parenting killed the kid.

>>94749168
>the horses Clark, they never stop! I can hear them even now! they never stop screaming!
that was fucked up

>>94749168
I had the impression they wanted to show this Superman being inherently good and not because of how he was raised.

>>94754021

It's fucked up if you don't understand what he was saying.

>>94754056
t. retard

>>94754068

Yes, anon you'd have to be retarded to take a simple speech about actions being simply about drowning horses

>>94754087
>obvious sarcastic post misquoting a scene
>brainlet doesn't understand the anon is joking because he is actually a retard that thinks he is smarter than everyone else because he "understand" a superhero movie

>>94754131
>obvious retard doesn't understand simple scene
>Hurr was a joke guys :^)

>>94754145
>everyone is stupid except me!
>no way some people are just joking or messing around

>>94754165

t. retard angry who got called out.

>>94754173
Are you retarded? Are you new to people misquoting scenes with made up quotes on 4chan?

>>94754222

It's ok to not understand a scene anon. Just try to not sound like a complete moron next time you want to bring up something you don't understand.

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>Defending Snyder

You get the movies you pay for.

>>94753920
>I really had wished that had been me
We all do.

>>94754238
Hope you are baiting instead of being a retard larping as a "smart" person

Why did Snyder hate Superman's best pal Jimmy Olsen?

>>94754034
Me too. The problem is that Superman is supposed to embody all that is good in man, he is not supposed to be Jesus, so all that is food in him must come from humans by way of how he is raised.

>>94749266
Goyer wrote the script

>small town farmer from kansas doesn't know the answer to everything.

What I take from those movies is that parents are assholes.

Pa Kent tells Clark to let people die.
Thomas Wayne is responsible for his and his wife death and traumatizing his son.
Ma Kent can't even tell to her son: "I know you're a good person, I trust you to do the right thing." Instead she's all "You don't owe anything to them, do what you want. I know it'll be the right thing." Superman's mother is really the character that shows the most that Snyder is a follower of Ayn Rand.

>>94754256
I wish Costner had gotten to play Pa Kent, he's perfect for it.

>>94754514
>Thomas Wayne is responsible for his and his wife death and traumatizing his son.
>these movies
That's every version of Batman, though.

>>94754514
I'm not really sure how you made the jump from "having faith in the inherent goodness of her adopted son" to "Ayn Rand Objectivism".

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>>94755616
>Maybe you should have let that bus full of kids die Clark, now they're gonna think you're some weirdo

>>94754339

>so all that is food in him must come from humans

Soooo does this mean Superman is a cannibal?

>>94755749

Humorously enough, Superman -does- meet Ayn Rand in one of the comics, she is portrayed as Lois Lane's friend and IIRC she subtly scoffs at Superman's altruism and selfless personality.

>>94755616
Goddammit fucking this. Guy was Mr. America in the early 1990s.

>Clark and Pa will never drink beers on the porch

>>94754514
Clark doesn't owe the world anything. If he did, his heroism would be just a debt and a burden that had to be paid off. A hero isn't someone who is forced to do good.

>>94749168
For the last time, yes. /thread.

>>94754339
I don't like to point fingers but the first Reeve movie started all the Space Jesus shit (and Jor-El as Space God).

Like you said, he is a "super man" because of his alien biology but he becomes "Superman" because the Kents raised him to be a good man.

>>94749972
>>94751415
> some people still thinks and expects BvS Batman as a sane and reasonable person, or a hero for all that matters.

why dont people get that Snyder portraited Batman to be a madman ON PURPOSE?

>>94750859
>It's not going to be very lowkey for him to bafflingly easily throw the bar guy out on his ass.
He doesn't have to, the fact that he can even have sex with a woman without killing her tells us he can measure his strength. He can still throw his ass out of the place while making it look like a human effort, just like everything else he has been doing in his life so far.

>People's lives are more fucking important then our individual egos.
That's exactly the opposite of what Pa Kent, and Ma Kent tell Clark. They tell him people can be shitty so he should hide to be safe. It was never about that bullshit "genocide" you completely made up. He's literally told he maybe should've let people die so his powers would be kept secret.

>"He should have come to terms with something no human on earth has ever experienced or had to deal with in the time frame I say so.
Yes, if he wants to come off as a somewhat sympathethic human being, which is what the movie is trying to show us, a "human" Superman. The problem is that Snyder seems to think that what makes us human are only the shittiest aspects of humanity, and anything about "hope" or other positive things come off as forced and shoehorned in because somebody reminded him this is a Superman movie.

>>94753005
>That's exactly what would happen. In real life.
What? Somebody finding out his mortal enemy has a mom with the same name as his and not only spare his life but become quipping buddies with him and be super sad and inspired by his death, which he was trying to cause himself just a little while ago?

>>94756202
Because it is stupid and non sensical, and Batman now is a giant hypocrite that is fine with killing people off, but don't need to go to jail because he feels kind of sorry. To not mention that one of the most interesting conflicts of the character is on his limitations and dilemmas with his no kill rule, making him trust fund Punisher was a big mistake. He went from someone whose conflicts comes from struggling to not cross the line, to someone that crossed the line (thus showing how weak he is at being a "hero").

>>94754339
>he is not supposed to be Jesus
Tell that to Snyder, who spent 2 movies telling us that's exactly who he is.

>>94756981
That anon is even more stupid because on previous Superman movies, Clark DID stood up for himself and even hurt some jackasses. Other movies, comics and adaptations did it just fine, but the snydercuck threats it as something impossible and unthinkable.

>>94749168
No, just anti-social

>>94756202
We know it was on purpose, we just think is a fucking retarded choice to make somebody who's supposed to be a hero into a psycho, a murderer, a hypocrite and a coward.
And not only that, but expect us to buy that all that shit turns around because Superman has a mom named Martha.

How could WB fuck up Superman this bad?

>>94757172
"Martha" was probably supposed to be Bruce seeing himself as Joe Chill, but Snyder being Snyder, he bungled it.

>>94757199
They rushed a new movie into production to keep the rights from the Siegel and Shuster heirs.

They took what Snyder and Goyer offered (and they were the only ones who stepped up) since they could get shit done quickly

>>94757260
Then to catch up with the MCU, since they already tried once and failed with Green Lantern, they made Man of Steel the launch pad of the DCEU instead of a standalone trilogy again

>>94757214
It's not so much the idea but the execution. We've spent 2 hours with Batman trying to kill Superman and we're led to believe that just because of MARTHA they become best friends in a few minutes? It doesn't help that the way the dialogue comes out, it feels completely unnatural and forced (but then again, so does most of the dialogue in the movie).

>>94757260
>They rushed a new movie into production to keep the rights from the Siegel and Shuster heirs.

I find it poetic that a movie made specialy to fuck with the family of the creators of Superman, ends up leaving a huge black curse on the DCEU cinematic universe as a hole, and everybody is trying to remove it now.

>>94757286
>they made Man of Steel the launch pad of the DCEU instead of a standalone trilogy again
Well, it's not inherently bad to try to start off the DCEU with a Superman film, ro reflect the way it was in the comics. It's how they did it what is retarded, mostly putting Snyder in charge of everything. They're obviously trying to fix it now but it should've been obvious right after BvS than they should've called off the JL movie and give it to another director. Now it's probably gonna be a fucking mess and WW and Aquaman will end up being the true foundations of the DCEU.

>>94757336
The issue is taking a standalone and building it into a larger universe but ESPECIALLY with how they did so.
Superman's whole issue in MoS is feeling alienated because he's a superpowered alien, his presence would change the world for so many reasons, but now as they're building the universe Gotham is full of heroes and superpowered freaks.

>>94757172
So you simply didn't understand the movie.

>>94757565
How didn't I understand it? Isn't BvS Batman all I said in my post? And again, we got what the Martha scene was supposed to mean. It was executed poorly and that's what led to people still making fun of it nowadays.

>>94757499
Normal humans with weird skin conditions, freak accident derived appearances and some experimental tech =/= alien beign with superpowers.

>>94757592
People are entirely autistic about that scene and fail completely to understand it Batman's POV.

>>94757593
What about El Diablo?

>>94757612
It's not as deep as you think. Most people get it, and the idea itself isn't all that bad. But the execution is awful and lends itself to the endless mockery it's been subjected to.
Artistic products like films are not only about the "what" but the "how" too, and that's where that scene failed miserably.

>>94757593
In what sense though?
Because in the quasi-religious sense they portray it, there's no real explanation for the distinction between a cholo with fire powers, the literal goddess prancing around world war one, and the alien with superpowers.

>>94757923
Well, Wonder Woman is supposed to be a secret anyway, since most people who saw her either died in the war or were her allies who obviously agreed not to tell. Any other witnesses accounts can be considered a case of the "Angels of Mons"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_of_Mons

I think Wonder Woman was actually pretty clever about that, and pretty much the only cleverly written and directed movie in the DCEU so far.

>inb4 some webms of the final acts
Those didn't look any less retarded than anything from Snyder's films, and since the movie surrounding them was much better I'm willing to let it go.
I hope they avoid the CGI clusterfuck third act in Aquaman.

>>94758321
*any more retarded

>>94749168
No, just badly written. Like the entire movie.

>>94755722
He's always shown trying to fight with his bare hands a guy pointing a gun on him?

>>94756095
It's not about being forced to do good.
It's about leaving in a society, knowing what society brings to you and what you brings to it.

Her saying you don't owe them anything is like watching someone falls in the street and passes him by thinking and I don't owe this person anything.

>>94757084
No you mong, I mean people would panic and start assigning this being all kinds of religious significance no matter what he thought about it. That's not something anyone in their right mind wants a child, especially their child, to deal with.

>>94749972

>Literally all Batmans grievances with Superman are still there and still valid.

What? No they aren't, that's the whole problem with MoS, that Batman and every civvie in the film is fucking retarded.

Can you imagine if a serial killer went around murdering people who had been saved from fires by firefighters? You wouldn't blame the fucking firefighters, you'd blame Michael Myers. And once he's been released from jail as being canadian isn't a crime, you'd blame the serial killer.

If anything, Batman should like Superman. They both do their shit for free, they both act as symbols for justice, and they both try to save as many people as they can.

>B-b-but that's not fair, he has superpowers

And Bruce is a fucking billionaire, being that rich is basically a superpower.

If anything Batman should be questioning the attitudes of everyone, because he's been in the exact same situation fourteen fucking times. This film doesn't star Batman, it's stars a deranged ex-vigilante who's pissed off at his lack of ability to save people, and so he takes it out on someone who must be evil because he has the power to do so.

Fuck this movie, and fuck all the edgelords who think Bats and Supes should tear each others throats out because superman caused property damage to a city that was mostly full of corpses.

>B-b-but Batman is so much cooler than Superman

I agree, but that only applies when he's fucking Batman, and not a twat using poisoned gas and gun traps to beat on his enemies. That's great Batman, well done, you're using your enemies tactics to kill a guy whose biggest crime is to look continuously exasperated while people beat themselves bloody on his invincible torso.

>>94762429
Why did you even quote >>94753005 then, you fucking retard?

>>94760331
Clark can contribute to society even if he chose not to be Superman. Martha's point is it needs to be his decision, his alone, rather than her or other people telling him what to do, or some misplaced sense of obligation over having miraculous powers guilting him into remaining as Superman.