>There will never be another speedster this perfect again

I'm giving Priest a chance to make Blally some quality before making that call, but yeah Wally's good shit.

>>94738020
Barry's better. That's why he gets the real Flash costume and The Flash book. It's also why he's on the Justice League instead of the Justice League: Junior Edition.

>>94738135
I kind of like him now but he'll never get stronger character work and growth than white Wally, just not how comics work anymore. He simply won't get enough issues.

>>94738143
a pity (You) for effort

>>94738143
Yeah, wally would never get the actual flash suit and book, and DC would NEVER put him on the JLA.

>>94738020
>professor zoom

did Wally Flash sell bad? Is that why they brought Barry back?

Or was it just repeating what they did with Hal because it worked with him?

>>94738143
Barry is better, you don't need to baut.

>>94738314
They brought back Barry after Bart's disastrous run as the Flash.

>>94738260
Only while Barry was dead. He's literally a backup. The second Barry came back Wally was irrelevant because Barry's demonstrably better. That's the entire point in Barry coming back -- so the iconic Flash can take his rightful place.

>>94738314
Barry sold worse in the New 52/DCyou than Wally ever sold in his career.

They just like Barry more at DC offices.

>>94738344
Telling the truth isn't bait.

>>94738314
The sales had dipped toward the end, but they weren't particularly bad.

>Is that why they brought Barry back?

No, it's why they made Bart the Flash. Barry was brought back because after Bart failed they had no other ideas.

>Or was it just repeating what they did with Hal because it worked with him?

Not exactly, but Johns clearly was trying to attempt that and give everyone a role (which is why he brought Wally, Bart, and Jenni back and changed Jesse back to the Quick codename over Liberty Belle) before his run was derailed, RIP in pieces.

>>94738143
>That's why he is in a shit Flash book and the shit JL book
You sure showed him.

>>94738373
>He's demonstrably better
>You can tell by the way Barry's run was far worse and stole everything from Wally's.
I know you are baiting but you need to try harder.

>>94738020

Barry is best boy, this is true

>>94739127
>New post
>Posters don't go up though
Let me guess, it's that autistic Barryfag that samefags every thread about why the worst flash is actually the best.

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>>94738143
>>94738373
>>94738421
>>94739127
(you)

>>94738020
Barry has always been better. Wally, like Kyle, is beloved only by 90s powerlevel fags who grew up on anime.

>Blitz was the last good Flash run
>That came out in 2003
When they announced Wally would be coming back for Rebirth for a split second I thought The Flash would be good again.

>>94739238
>Barry will always be better
Than how come none of his runs have been good since he came back and why does 99% of /co/ choose Wally, Jay or Bart over him? Why are /co/ recommended Flash always Wally or Bart related?

>>94739256
Titans was fine when it was a Wally book. Should probably just go back to that and stop the senseless drama (and also get rid of Booth but that's a given at this point).

>>94739238
>Barry isn't popular on /co/ so you have to samefag a thread to make it seem like more than one anon likes him
Pretty sad anon. Don't worry, Barry will get a good run one day.

Wally fans have it rough. Barry stole most of what Johns wrote for him in current continuity, we have 2 Wallys running around with little going for either, and we cant even use Zolomon anymore

>>94739238
Kyle is a bitch

Wally+Hal is the only way to live

>>94739329
It's sad that Barry can't have his own identity. Everything Barry has has been taken from Wally's run.
>Speed force
>RF
>Story telling elements
>Aspects of personality
Barry's run has just been a rehash of the last 20 years but worse.

>>94739395
>Reverse Flash
What the fuck are you talking about? Thawne was still around dicking with Barry before Hunter Zolomon showed up.
>Personality
Hes still the down to earth guy who does the occasional dad joke

>>94739395
Speed force is basically the only thing, and even then it's been used differently. You also forgot some character dynamics like Piper being his friend.

Barry's comics have been bad, but not because he's taking from Wally's run.

>>94739427
Wally gave RF his Origin story pretty much and defined his attitude towards Barry. Many aspects of hunter were put onto current Prof Zoom and you can tell if you compare pre Wally RF to post wally RF.
>He was always a down to earth guy
He is now a depressive fuck up that no longer acts like a good father figure. In the shows and upcoming movie they clearly tried basing him off of Cartoon Wally.

>>94739516
They also took the evil speedster shit from Wally's run. In Barry's old run you wouldn't have so many fucking evil speedsters, it was Wally who popularized that and it's been run to the ground.

>>94739516
Piper being his roommate was taken from Wally

>>94738020
Shit man, I was just thinking about 86-2006 Flash was the best the character has ever been and it hasn't been the same again. I was giving Johns the benefit of the doubt about bringing Barry back if he could take the Flash franchise to the heights he took the GL franchise, but that didn't happen and we have been stuck with mediocre Barry stories since then. Feels bad.

>>94738143
Literally name 1 Barry story better than anything Waid or Johns wrote with Wally.

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>>94738143
Remember that time Barry went back in time and erased thousands of people out of existence including his best friend and causing DC comics to be shit for a good 5 years all because he wouldn't listen to Wally about the dangers of going back in time? Yeah, Barry totally is a great character.

>>94740053
He can't. It's the same faggot who goes into every Flash thread. He even admitted he started reading with New 52 and the TV show.

>>94740032
Don't ever mention it, man. I'm still mad as fuck because we didn't get Zoom Corps War.

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>>94739329
>and we cant even use Zolomon anymore
This is really what gets to me. There is no better time for Hunter to make a vicious come back but DC is insisting on making Wally smooch Donna instead.

>>94740032
I don't believe it was Johns's idea to bring back Barry but he did have a plan to make the most of it, too bad we'll never see it.

>>94740001
Yes that's what I meant by mentioning it, that he missed and actual thing taken from Wally in his list.

>>94740626
Hasnt Godspeed essentially replaced Zoom?

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>>94738020
Flash has been nothing but mediocre garbage since Wally got sidelined.

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>>94741051
Got to week those execs happy goy

>>94740053
Flash Rebirth, Dastardly Death, Running Scared, Rogues Reloaded, Lightning Strikes Twice etc etc.

Your shitty Wally Linda love stories and edgy 00s crap isn't as good as modern comics. There's a reason Barry's a million times more popular less then a decade after returning than Wally ever was with 20 years all by himself.

Barry's better. People like him more. His stories are more interesting because he's a more interesting person. Wally has no character traits besides "Is the Flash." Barry's a scientist, founded the JL, and his family issues play into his story better than Wally's shitty lottery stories with his mom ever did.

Get over yourselves. Stop whining about Wally and just enjoy the great Flash run we have now that Barry's back.

>>94741696
lmao

>>94739091
Barry's book is a lot fucking better than Wally's. I tried reading Titans just to give Wally a chance at that mess is hot garbage.

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>>94741696
>Lightning Strikes Twice
> on par with any Wally story

>>94740076
He didn't erase Hal. He didn't erase anyone. That was Pandora and then retconned into being Manhattan.

Barry time traveled to stop a malicious time traveler. This is something both he and Wally do all the time. He was going to fix it when big blue dick showed up and messed it up.

Or do you think Wally's a shit for time traveling during Chain Lightning? Or during The Human Race? Or during Black Flash? Or during Rogue War?

Get off your fucking high horse. Time travel is implicit in The Flash. The one time they fucked it up it was a third party getting inbetween Thawne and Barry's feud.

Barry's the one who fucking TAUGHT Wally the dangers of going back in time. Why the fuck would Wally ever give him that advice? Barry wrote the book on time travel.

The thing is, this guy obviously isn't even a Barryfag. He just chose the most /co/trarian position possible to shitpost.

>>94741758
It's like Blitz but less fucking stupid. At least the villain makes a lick of sense. An anti-hero speedster done right. Godspeed's the coolest evil speedster and, amusingly, that's a long list to be on top of.

He doesn't quite have the petty narcissism that makes Thawne amusing to read but he's also a better developed character in that short span.

>>94741799
I think /co/ is pretty split on preferring Barry or Wally (or just not caring). You can't really be contrarian about it. Some folks just signed on with Flash: Rebirth or the New 52 so they view Barry's comics in a better light than Wally's, especially given the art.

I mean there were people in the old Venditti Flash storytimes saying how much they liked the run even though older Flash fans treat it like cancer. It's just different audiences and Barry's audience shot up in size rapidly for obvious reasons.

>>94741835
Your taste is awful. Godspeed was a generic villain with the same old "we need to kill criminals, I'm making the world a better place" motivation seen a million times before, with a background cribbed from Hunter and without any other substance behind him

>>94741993
>People who didn't read the comics until now prefer Barry
Hmm

>>94742217
You're getting worked, dumbass. Guy is baiting and it's not even subtle but go ahead and give him the (YOU)s.

>>94741993
>>94742298
So Barry fans need to be bullied for being casuals who don't actually read the good arcs.

>>94742324

yeah that surely won't make you come off like an asshole.

>>94742434
where do you think you are

>>94742434
>Not bullying people who read only the new shit instead of reading the classics first

>>94740076
>shit for 5 years
Someone didn't read the majority if the New 52 titles. There were a whole lot that were good, but nobody ever talks about those. Reminder that it brought us Omega Men, Dial H, Multiversity, Morrison's run on AC, two fantastic runs on Swamp Thing and Animal Man, and a bunch of good GL arcs.
WonderAzz is one of the best and most unique takes on the character and her lore in recent memory, fight me.

Dumb question.

In Justice League why was The Flash Wally and not Barry? Growing up I thought Wally was THE Flash and then got confused with Young Justice, the CWverse and comics themselves. An oversight?

>>94744279
Because Wally was the Flash in the comics. Same reason Kyle was the first GL, why Tim took over Robin after Dick, and probably several other legacy situations I can't think of right now.

>>94739329
>and we cant even use Zolomon anymore
Why

So is old Wally still going by Kid Flash?

>>94738020
Super speed is the lamest power ghe same way Superman is the lamest superhero.

You have to write it so the user/Superman doesn't have the foresight or intelligence to use their power to its actual potential.

>>94744418
>Superman is the lamest hero
>Speed is the lamest power
I bet you think Batman is the best hero.

>>94744418
Wrong on both counts, faget. Read a comic.
That's fantastic bait, by the way.

>>94744389
No. People call him Flash just like they do Barry.

>>94742324
I've read every Wally comic from the storytimes around here. I know all about all his "great" stories. Most of which are just "Gosh Linda I love you but we fight a lot!" over and over and fucking over again. At least Barry had some variety.

>>94742217
If that's how you interpreted the story then you're even stupider than the average Wallyfag. We got a much better look at August than you're giving Williamson credit for.

We also got the best Thawne comic to date just recently. What more do you guys want? Bringing Barry back created your beloved "IT WAS ME" meme for christ's sake.

>>94744389
He's being called The Flash but he should get a new name. Twice over.

>>94744675
Linda called him the other Flash which should basically just be his title at this point. "Hey, it's that guy who thinks he's The Flash but isn't!"

>>94744956
>Barry had some variety
You mean the current run where it's all Evil Speedsters and Wally Rehashes?

The Human Race, Born to Run and The Return of Barry Allen are the best 3 Flash Arcs and they are all Wally's.

>>94745015
>Faster than Barry
>More responsible than Barry
>Has been The Flash longer than Barry
>No one remembers him because of Barry's time stream fuck up

>>94744984
Well we could reuse one of the old nicknames, like Crimson Comet or Scarlet Speedster, but thats not great either.

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>>94744956
>We got a much better look at August than you're giving Williamson credit for.
No we didn't. His entire character's the most by-the-books evil counterpart as it can be. Out of all the evil speedsters he's the least interesting and the least original, and that's including fucking Inertia. Better motivations than Hunter? Don't make me laugh

>>94738314
Every time the Flash name changes, you can be guaranteed the sales were flopping.

Hell, any time a hero has a legacy, you can pretty much assume it. The exception is when they were dead.

>>94742324
No you dumb shit, just stop fighting over which pulp serial comic book character you think validates your hobby more. Neither Barry nor Wally are bad characters and both have had good and bad stories, both have identified the Flash in major ways. There is literally no point to fighting over which one "deserves" the title because it's a fucking pop action story where the writer can do whatever the hell they want as long as the good guy can catch the bad guy and basic character traits (of which both Barry, Wally, and Kid Wally have enough to spare) stay intact.

I seriously don't get the fucking big deal. Both Wally and Barry are in good stories, both Wally and Barry have been in shit stories.

>>94746262
>Both Wally and Barry are in good stories

>Barry
>in good stories

?

>>94745125
None of these things are true. Barry's obviously faster, Barry is literally a beacon of responsibility, Barry was The Flash for longer in his first stint (30 years vs 20) and the final one was literally never his fault. Pandora and Manhattan.

>>94745165
Whatever, so long as it's not The Flash. Jay only gets a free pass for seniority and his super hero name basically being Jay Garrick at this point.

>>94745091
Born To Run is lame. Rogues revenge is much better.

>>94745904
Hunter's motivation is he's fucking crazy. They both have an interest in their Flash but instead of being a weirdo madman obsessive like Hunter, August actually puts his money where his mouth is and tries to help Barry. Imagine how much better Barry's life would be right now if August had gotten away with killing Thawne and Barry never had to go through this Running Scared stuff with Thawne.

August's a bit megalomaniacal but he's got good intentions. He's a cop so he's fine with killing in self defense to stop scum. Hunter's just a spooky fast guy with a boner for time travel. August actually wants to change the world for the better. Those are always the best kinds of villains.

>>94746262
Titans is trash, Williamson Flash is aces. They turned Titans into CW tier teenage relationship drama, it's a fucking joke.

>>94746350
>Barry's obviously faster
Kek, nope.
>Beacon of responsibility
Kek. Then why did he go back in time when he knew he shouldn't have and fucked everyone over by using the time stream like a toy? Even the TV show insults Barry for that.
>Barry was the flash longer
Yeah originally, not in the new 52 timeline
>I-It WASN'T HIS FAULT
Yet it was you faggot. Barry shouldn't have messed with time. Professor Zoom is right, Barry is a fuck up.

>>94746361
Agreed. I can't understand how people read that saccharine sweet "my neglectful parents boo hoo oh I'm kid flash now" shit and think that's a good origin. He got his powers literally the same way Barry did, it's the most unoriginal tripe I've ever seen. At least Barry's loss is impactful and his origin is THE origin of The Flash. So good Wally had to rip it off, like he ripped off everything in his run.

>>94746401
Too bad he is still worse because he is clearly a rip off and since he was only introduced to be a traitor it was obvious it was him.

>>94746473
>Kek. Then why did he go back in time when he knew he shouldn't have and fucked everyone over by using the time stream like a toy?

He has never done this. He time traveled for a very good reason. Using time travel to stop a malicious time traveler is the entire point of their ability to time travel. If you think Barry's irresponsible and shitty with his powers then what do you think of Wally? He used his powers to try to stop Cobalt Blue. He even fucked up so bad multiple times that he DOOMED THE UNIVERSE. But he got like 5 shots at it in the same story.

Barry was about to fix things when someone else maliciously changed history. Did you even read DCU Rebirth? It wasn't Barry's fault. He didn't "mess with time." He attempted to stop someone else from messing with time. That's the exact fucking opposite. The universe he was living in WAS the messed up time universe that he was righting.

>>94746485
>He ripped everything off
You mean like how Barry has been ripping off Wally's run since he came back?
>He got his powers literally the same way Barry did
So? The cannon explanation was Barry gave him the power which makes more sense than how Barry got it.
>The most unoriginal tripe
Then you must hate Barry's run then, oh wait.
>At least Barry's loss is impactful
You mean new 52's? No it wasn't. It was forced as shit to make Barry more like Batman.
>And his origin is THE origin of The Flash
You mean Jays?

>>94746512
He's a rip off? He's an improvement. I would think a Wally fag would be able to understand when a character is inspired by another but improves on it. That's what you fucking Wallyfags always say about Wally with regards to Barry, no matter how untrue.

>>94746541
>He never done this
Except he did. That is what Flashpoint casual. Barry went back in time and fucked everything up. This was said in the comics, it was said in the TV show.

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>>94746581
>It's an improvement
>New 52
>An improvement
I love these CW kids but they don't belong on /co/.

>>94746485
>So good Wally had to rip it off, like he ripped off everything in his run.
>when you have so little of an argument you have to start using the arguments against you

>>94746581
Wally IMPROVED on Barry's story. Barry ruined the story when he came back. The Flash hasn't been good since Barry came back.

>>94746574
>You mean like how Barry has been ripping off Wally's run since he came back?

Wally took the suit, the villains, the power, the origin, the fucking name. Wally is nothing but the biggest ripoff in history.

Reverse Flashes? That was Barry's thing first. Another baffling criticism wallyfags pull out of their collective vaginas.

"Make Barry more like Batman." Batman is a broken person who is who he is because his parents are dead. We know Barry's a good person who would use his powers for good regardless, but his mother dying gave him a goal to strive towards. It actively pushed the story and his character forward. It was certainly better than "Well my parents suck but now I'm adult and that literally doesn't matter."

Jay's origin is sniffing fumes. If you ask anyone what the Flash's origin is they'll tell you getting struck by lightning. Much like how Barry's suit is THE Flash suit. Jay came first but he doesn't define The Flash aside from super speed -- of which most innovations with the power were created in Barry's run.

>>94746658
>Barry is such a rip off their fans have to rip off other peoples arguments
>>94746675
Wally took everything Barry had and improved on it.
>Barry got struck by lighting
Actually it was that lighting struck chemicals that fell on him. You don't read comics, you just watch the show.

>>94746608
Yeah man and when Wally went back in time in Chain Lightning one of his fuck ups caused the UNIVERSE TO END. But we don't get on Wally's ass about it because he had the opportunity to set things to right.

When Barry was about to set things to right another character came in and fucked up the timeline. Barry isn't any less responsible than Wally with time travel. He's just better at it so he can use it more often. We just saw him time travel in the Button and, gasp, nothing bad happened to the universe. He's been time travelling all throughout the New 52 and nothing bad has happened. Barry's responsible as hell with time travel. Manhattan isn't.

>>94746675
Wally defined Current Flash just like how Jay defined Golden age Flash and Barry defined Silver age Flash. You are an idiot.
>>94746733
Chain lighting wasn't Wally's fault and like you said HE FIXED IT.

>>94746716
I was paraphrasing you semantic fuck.

They retconned the chemicals mattering with the COIE/Secret Origin take and later again with the Speed Force anyhow.

Jesus Christ, it's just trolls trolling trolls at this point and everybody's working way too hard on these elaborate shitposts.

>>94746733
>Barry is better at time travel than Wally
This is objectively false. I know you don't read comic books and that just proved it.

even John Fox is better than Barry

>>94746767
You mean during Wally's run and after? So then that takes away all those points you were trying to make then.

>>94746751
And Flashpoint was literally because of Professor Zoom and Mirror Master. What are you on about? Do you read comics? Seems like you fucking missed out on Vol 3.

Barry defines current Flash because The Flash comics are about him. Have been for years now if you want to play the "Well in THIS ERA" game.

>>94746803
COIE/Secret Origin wasn't Wally's run you dumbfuck.

Retconning the source of the lightning doesn't take away the lightning bolt hitting Barry being the defining origin. Just gives it a slightly different context. The entire Speed Force's lightning theme is literally derived from Barry's origin.

What you're saying is akin to saying Wally redefined The Flash by making the costume a slightly darker shade of red. Oooo, what innovation.

>>94746812
>Because the comics are about him
Yeah, lets forget that it took everything from Wally's run. Wally defined modern Flash. Barry didn't do anything to it except rehash it and make it shit.
>And Flashpoint was because of Zoom
And Barry going back in time when he shouldn't have. Even The TV show Barry admits he fucked up.

Wallyfags are fucking insufferable on this board, and Wally was my Flash growing up.

These threads are so fucking stupid. It's like Guy vs Hal vs John vs Kyle threads. Why the fuck do we have to argue over it all the time?

>>94746864
It's funny how you are doing exactly what you are making fun of.
>B-But Barry did the LIGHTING
Wally's run invented the fucking speedforce as it is known today.
Also Jay is the first to link Lighting to the Flash.

>>94746908
Whatever you say CW fag.
>S-Stop complaining you entitled comic book fans I hate you!

>>94746908
it's just for fun man, chill out

>>94746879
What did Barry rehash? All the stuff that was originally his that Wally took?

If your answer is Speed Force then Barry redefined the Speed Force in Flash Rebirth. Tagging the word "redefined" to everything is real fucking smart of you, dumbass.

Barry didn't go back in time when he shouldn't have. He went back in time exactly when he should have. Stop trying to have your cake and eat it, too, Wallyfag. You can't be a bitch about Barry time traveling when Wally West is your favorite. Dude time travels all the time.

>>94746908
Better than the kids who only watch the tv show and think Barry is the best

>>94746628
We tried a Wally run. Wally got like 20 comics are pure garbage when he returned after Bart's run. It's not like he wasn't given his fair shake. Barry's return was a necessity because Wally lost all interest.

And, go figure, Barry's return to prominence has brought more interest in The Flash than we've had since...well, the Silver Age when Barry was The Flash. Funny how that works out.

>>94746932

Damn dude, you uncovered my secret

>>94747013

I don't get how someone could watch the CW show and think Barry is the best when that's easily the worst version of Barry.

>>94747003
>What did Barry rehash
>Speedforce
>Villains
>"Evil speedster #131"
>Dialog
>Professor Zoom
>Characters

>>94740053
Infinite Crisis

>>94747013
I don't understand how anyone can like the CW version. He is basically a reckless and selfish supervillain you're supposed to root for because...?

>>94747062
>B-But it made it more popular!
So? That doesn't mean a thing if it's going to be shit.

Barry's New52 run being mediocre as shit doesn't mean that Wally's run was infinitely better. Wally had some stories under Morrison, Millar, and Johns and even those three didn't always write an amazing story for Wally.

Barry should have never come back. We should have gotten a new speedster Replace Wally like how Wally replaced Barry
>inb4 but we tried that with Bart
Yeah and that didn't work, doesn't mean you can't try again.
>>94747129
>Not mentioning Waid's run
Not a fan?

>>94747062
>Barry's return to prominence has brought more interest in The Flash than we've had since...well, the Silver Age when Barry was The Flash. Funny how that works out.
A television show is not a comicbook, and you're retarded if you think that Barry becoming popular had anything to do with Flashpoint and his New 52 run

>>94747079
You're gonna call Villains rehashing on Barry? Wally literally took Barry's entire Rogues Gallery. Wally's two main villains are fucking Thawne and Abra Kadabra, Barry villains. His biggest original character is...a fucking Reverse Flash. How goddamn original of Wally.

Like I said, if you're gonna call Wally "redefined" everything Barry did (a fancy way of saying he ripped it off) then Barry clearly redefined the Speed Force with Flash Rebirth. Even New 52 Barry had a completely different version of it until Johns brought back the old one.

Like how in the fucking world are you saying Barry Allen ripped off Wally West by using Professor Zoom? How much of a fucking idiot can you be?

>>94747129
WML Wally was kino

>>94747148

>Not a fan?

His stuff was alright. I like Waid, but for some reason when he writes a character I really love (like Wally or Supes) he doesn't do it for me.

Fuck /co/ for calling Birthright better than Origins

>>94747111
More people liking a thing is the point. And like I said, you can't claim Wally's return had any quality to it. He got his fair shake and DC moved on because Wally failed, critically and fiscally.

Seriously, would you have preferred more comics about Wally's shitty fucking kids? Because that's your goddamn alternative. Barry's return was a godsend.

>>94747129
It was. It had low points but the thing is the low points weren't low forever. Good and bad is infinitely better than just bad.
>>94747159
>Took the rogues Gallery
And improved them.
>Clearly redefined the speedforce
He didn't. It was the same shit before and after, it was just that Barry somehow created it. It didn't redfine it at all. Wally created the fucking speedforce in his run.
Wally enhanced, Barry rehashed.

>>94747157
Barry's comics are more popular, too. The show and movies are gimmes. Flashpoint and COIE are the only time The Flash has been at the center of a big event and both were Barry. For a reason.

>>94747197
>Barry making the comic shitty was a godsend
No it wasn't. It would be a godsend if the comics improved after he came back. They should have had a new speedster take the mantle, not go backwards.
>>94747225
Too bad they are shit.

>>94747225
>Flashpoint and COIE are the only time The Flash has been at the center of a big event

L O L
O
L

>>94747210
>He didn't. It was the same shit before and after, it was just that Barry somehow created it. It didn't redfine it at all. Wally created the fucking speedforce in his run.
>Wally enhanced, Barry rehashed.

You really are retarded. Flash Rebirth completely changed all the narrative stature of the Speed Force and the New 52 Speed Force was entirely different in every way from the Wally version.

If that's not redefining I don't know what is.

I'm glad Wally's run gave Cold some shitty parents but they were just building on the foundation of Barry's run. Like everything Wally did.

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Fact: Wally's run is better than Barry's current run and even better than Barry's old Run
Fact: Wally developed more and became a more well defined character than Barry

This is why people like Wally more. If you like Barry because you are new to comic books that is fine but don't pretend that makes him better.

>>94747251
>No it wasn't. It would be a godsend if the comics improved after he came back. They should have had a new speedster take the mantle, not go backwards.

If you think the New 52 run was worse than Wally's stupid kids then you're more hopeless than I thought. I can forgive preferring Wally's run under Waid, Morrison, and Johns if only for the nostalgia factor (it's horribly dated) but I could say the same about Barry's Silver and Bronze Age run.

Barry's return immediately improved the comics. Compare Wally West dealing with his stupid daughter and fucking Queen Bee to Dastardly Death. That's the transition we're talking about. That was the biggest hike in quality The Flash has ever gotten.

>>94747282
>It's completely different
It's not though. It's slightly changed but Wally created it.
>They were building on the foundation of Barry's run
But Barry's run is shit
That is sad that Wally "Building the foundation" is the best stories the series has ever had.

>>94747328
It didn't improve. New 52 was mediocre. I know newfags are infesting this place when they are starting to defend fucking new 52 of all things. Wally's last issues were mediocre but Barry was also mediocre and has been mediocre since he came back.

>>94747333
>Barry is actually Eobard Thawne from the future but he changed his face and also the time travel screwed up his head so he thought he was Barry and that's why he could fool everyone!

Top tier writing everyone. The GOAT Flash story. You guys are fucking stupid. If ROBA came out right now you'd call it the dumbest shit ever. It's aged like milk.

>>94747388
Wow faggot, you can make any story seem shit like that
>Alien for space throws cars around
TOP TIER WRITING EVERYONE, I CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE LIKE DC

>>94747363
Newfags? 6 years ago is pretty fucking weird for newfags. You were probably 12 when that shit came out. Unless you're some 40 year old posting on 4chan stop pretending.

I'm glad you fucking straight glossed over my point about how Wally was wallowing in shit before Barry came back. New 52 was a million times better than the last two Flash arcs we got before Barry's return.

>>94747434
>Newfags? 6 years ago is pretty fucking weird for newfags. You were probably 12 when that shit came out. Unless you're some 40 year old posting on 4chan stop pretending.
Just because you're an underage CW faggot doesn't mean the rest of 4chan is

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>>94747434
>6 years
>He thinks starting with new 52 doesn't make him a newfag because it was six years
>He thinks going to 4chan in 2011 makes him "old"

>>94747419
I didn't oversimplify it. That's the entire fucking premise for ROBA. I get it, people kind of like it as Wally's coming to terms story but the entire plot is asinine.

>>94747434
And here it is. He admits to being a Nu 52 faggot.
>>94747482
>Comic books have weird stories
You shouldn't be reading them then

>>94747363
>defend fucking new 52 of all things
casual detected

>>94747434
most of /co/ is 30+ you fucking infant

>>94747480
Dude I've clearly read all the fucking Wally comics. I've got as much Flash knowledge as you idiots, if not more because I actually read Barry comics, too. You're a bunch of asspained Wallyfags. If Barry had the unanimous greatest Flash story ever you'd just go "PSH GARBAGE" because you're so deluded.

I mean that's basically what you're doing. We just got the best Thawne arc ever and you're calling it trash because MUH ROBA MUH WALLY

>>94747540
>We just got the best Thawne arc ever

Why is Williamson shitposting on /co/?

>>94747556
You faggots were eating that shit up in the storytime. Don't backtrack now.

>>94747540
>We just got the best Thawne arc ever
>Williamson
>Best anything
Kek and the art was shit too.

>Trashing the New52 in it's entirety

The Wallyfag butthurt is out of control, Jesus Christ.

The New52 wasn't perfect but it was by no means as bad as you fags act like it.

>>94747513

>Weird/Asinine are now the same thing because someone criticized one story arc

Oh fuckin' knock it off

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>>94747599
>You have to be a Wallyfag to hate New 52
>Hey guise I am new!

>>94747599
I know. Best art ever, great stories.

You could give these people a bar of gold and they'd be mad because it didn't have red hair. I bet if these exact same stories were told with Wally they'd think they were the greatest thing on God's green earth.

>>94747599
I guess if you love Cyborgs nig dick and wasted potential than new 52 was mediocre. If you have a brain it was shit with a few specs of quality in a shit heap.

>>94747580
The like two pages where Thawne admits how gay he is was fun, but that doesn't make the arc good.

Posting (You)s in a storytime is not meant to be critical analysis. I'm never going to reread that shit.

>>94747599
>>94747641
>New 52
>Bar of gold
I am screen capping this thread. I love this faggotry.

>>94747680
Thawne deconstructing Barry and shit were great. It was great. Stop pretending otherwise just because you're so hard up for wanting to say Wally is better.

I think Human Race was good! I liked Chain Lightning. I don't think Wally's all garbage -- most of his stories are dated but there's some gems. The least you can do is be fucking honest.

>>94747580
Even in the thread people were calling it shit.

>>94747719
Josh pls, don't you have a shitty Metal tie-in you should be working on?

>>94747719
>It was great
Oh yeah
>Another RF story
>overusing him over and over
>OH LOOK GUISE IRIS FINALLY OUT THAT BARRY WAS THE FLASH AGAIN OH WOW
>OH LOOK ZOOM DIED, AGAIN
>OH LOOK ZOOM GAVE BARRY A LECTURE
>AGAIN
It was shit, it had shit pacing, shit writing, shit art. I saw it all before and I will see it again in 6 months when hey bring him back.

>>94747639

You don't have to be a Wallyfag to hate the New52, but a good portion of New52 sour grapes is from Wally getting put on the backburner for five years and replaced with a lamer version of the character. It's not fucking hard to figure out.

I'd be pissed too if my favorite character got that kind of treatment too, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't shit on the entire brand when there was some good in it.

>>94747697

>Screencapping things that make you angry

The fuck, dude.

The real way to settle this arguement is for everyone to just admit that Wally and Barry both have cool costumes and powers but neither of them have any amazing runs or stories. That's the sad part of the Flash in general, it's all wasted potential.

recommended reading for Wally?

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>>94747772
And because MM got replaced with Cyborg
Or because most of the runs were shit
or because of the SJW bullshit
Or because of all the stupid shit they pulled like trying to ship heroes together which failed horribly
or ruining a lot of good heroes and characters
No, it's all because of wally. You stupid Barryfags are so pathetic.

>>94747765
Only the super stupidly vague "Thawne gave Barry a lecture" part was similar to a previous arc. Thawne's never fucked up Barry's personal relationship with Iris -- before he just killed her. Thawne's never drug Barry to see horrible alternate futures to break his spirit.

That shit was great and unique. Stop trying to water it down because you're so hard headed.

>>94747765

>Another RF story
>overusing him over and over

What's Hunter Zolomon then

>>94747805
v2 #1-225

>>94747772
>But neither of them have amazing runs
Just because Barry is shit and has been since he returned doesn't make Wally's run not the best.
>>94747830
>Thawne never fucked up Barry's relationship with iris
Except when he killed her.

>>94747819
Dual-wielding is the fucking stupidest meme in fiction.

>>94747834
Zolomon was barely used. Only starred as a villain in like 2 arcs across in 50 issues.

Why shitpost like this?

>>94738020

>All this crying

you people are a gold mine.

>>94747834
Zoom was only around for like 6 issues of The Flash. Zolomon was a supporting character up until the last 3 issues of Blitz.

>>94747819

Keep calling people Barryfags when they're not.

>MM got replaced by Cyborg

Boo fuckin' hoo

>Calling something "SJW bullshit" when you post an image where they took a fat broad and made her sexy

>>94747848
Why do you pick out out of context parts of my post to say things I bring up later in the post? How fucking stupid are you? I pointed out how Thawne killed Iris and how that's way fucking different from what we got now.

Did you think Rogue War was shit because Zolomon was trying to kill Linda when, in blitz, he gave her an abortion? HOW UNORIGINAL

>>94747842
Yeah make sure to leave out 226-247. Everyone likes to forget the 34 issues of straight garbage between Wally and Bart.

>>94747888
All I see in this thread are new 52 kiddies getting butthurt.
>>94747928
Like this one.
>Boo fuckin hoo
Yep. Great argument. Cyborg is shit but it's ok because you didn't read comics before New 52
>Doesn't get the point of the image

>>94744138
>thinks New 52 was good

You just don't have a frame of reference cuz that's all you've read, kid.

>>94747928
>Hi guys I sure do love Cyborgs big black dick raping my ass

>>94747984

>One mediocre character replaced with another

Big loss

>>94748009

>Black

There we go, that's the root of the problem for you faggots every time

>>94747960
Honestly the kid issues are fine, but I didn't want to bother to look up how much filler there was between Johns and Waid's other return.

>>94747772

I stopped reading DC the day they announced Wally wasn't going to be appearing in the new 52. It wasn't a butthurt thing really, my interest just utterly died at an almost break-neck speed. This is probably my first time back on /co/ since then, too. I had been reading comics regularly the entire two decades before that.

I think part of the thing is for Wally, when he first took on the mantle he was constantly being compared against Barry, both in and out of universe. Fans and characters in his own goddamn comic would get mad at him for not being Barry.

He finally carves a spot for himself after enough time in his own title, but in the JL events and guest spots in other comics it was clear other writers didn't really have a grasp on who Wally was supposed to be. I remember there were a couple "Seven Deadly Sins" JL themed issues and Wally was given everything from lust to anger to sloth?? He was just never really properly welcomed into the status quo. His status quo was always "Not Barry." Barry was supposed to be this ultimate Great Guy (even though the reality was that he was kind of stale bread boring) so writers who didn't know better would just go the opposite of that without really thinking it through and making him an asshole for no real reason.

Then Bart showed up, and Bart was this precious fan favorite, people adored him, for obvious reasons (that trendy 90s anime character design!!!), and in TT/Impulse comics, whenever Wally showed up, he was propped up as this cruel authority figure that Bart had to fight against. Sadly, I think this is the most remembered version of Wally. I think most of the canon that was established for Flash during Wally's run (speed force, etc) has been credited to Barry, and the new fans don't really know Wally as anything except Bart's asshole pseudo-uncle.

It's the most infuriating thing and hearing that he was going to be cut completely from the new 52 was just the straw on the camel's back.

>>94747669
One of the New 52's failings was not capitalizing on Cyborg in the Justice League though. It took absolutely forever for him to get his own book, which had a decent first half (not great or even really good, just decent) and a wonderful second half. People got in such a huff over Cyborg and it was all for nothing.

If you could get through more than like 8 issues of new 52 Flash you have bad taste. Period. Seeing Manapul waste his own artistic talent on those plots was just painful.

>>94748028
>Y-You racist you hate that Cyborg is black and it has nothing to do with him being mediocre or shit

>>94748067
34. 3 fucking years worth of garbage comics with 1 year of emptiness here and there between 225 and Barry's return.

Like I said, Barry was a last resort. We should be happy it worked out and Flash was salvaged.

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>Barryfags are also Nu52 idiots
Who would have guessed?

is speedster waifu wars brought on by autism or shitposting?

>>94748187
Both.
Wally fans are autistic fans of the series. Barryfans are shitposters who don't read comics.

>>94748187
Yes.

Wally fans are the most notorious cape autists on the internet. I think it's something about super speed, happened with Sonic too.

>>94748227
It's basically the same as /v/ and their autism. That is what happens when someonething good turns to shit and then you have a ton of faggot children acting like the new shit is good.

>>94748264
The good turned to shit years before Barry came back though.

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How can anyone become a fan of Barry through the TV show? He's a fuck up at every turn who needs to be constantly reminded of being a hero ALL the time. His friends end up doing more to help than him.

>>94748309
Yeah, but people don't defend it.

>>94748328
It's hilarious. People talking about how I'm a Barryfag because I watched the show but wait, no, I'm a barryfag because I started with the new 52!!!

I started with Johns run like most people. DC loves collecting Johns' Wally run. I just say Barry's comics are better.

>>94748187
I think most people like all the speedsters even if they have their favorite and it's just shitposting. Or at least that's how I've always felt and it's hard to imagine people who are shitposting just like me are not doing it from that perspective.

>>94748355
They implicitly do. Saying Barry ruined the franchise when it was ruined years prior is disingenuous. They're trying to absolve Wally's shitty comics by putting all the blame on Barry when Barry's had some good comics since his return. He's also had some bad (Venditti's run was a lowlight) but that's true of basically any long comic run.

>>94748364
>I started with the New 52
>I started with Johns run
Holy shit. You are even worse than if you started with the show.

>>94748328
He's been mishandled in season 3 for sure, but is an endearing and entertaining character to watch.

Wally can't surpass Barry even under the guiding hand of Grant Morrison. I'm starting to think people are Wallyfags just because of that Black Flash arc where he runs to the end of time and Black Flash just stops existing. It was a cool moment, but plenty of the stories leading up to it weren't great.

>Broke my legs, let me make the gayest Flash suit ever out of speedforce to save the day
>Mirror Master reverses Linda Park to go through life backwards for some reason
>That Wally/Kyle/GA team up where they're in court with the badguys was boring as shit for something with such a cool premise.

The Kwyzz/Not Sonic race was cool though

Even under Johns' reign the run was plagued by shit like terrible Scott Kolins art.

Wally's not bad, he's just not better than Barry, just like Barry isn't better than Jay.

>>94748392
>They do
No they don't. Barry did ruin it. Wally's last run was shit but it could have gotten better or at worse they could have replaced him with a new Speedster. Having Barry come back and basically undo everything while rehashing everything forever ruined the legacy of Flash.
Barry was far worse than just a few bad runs.

Is JLA/Injustice 2 the best version of Barry.

>>94748432
What? I was pointing out how people assumed I started with the New 52/Show.

I started with Johns' Wally run years before Barry came back. They were the easiest collected Flash comics to get in the mid 2000s. If 15 years of comics reading makes me too much of a newfag then whatever.

>>94748432

>How dare people get an interest in comic books with adaptations or things designed to bring in new readers

We get it, you're a "real" comic fan.

>>94748464
>Wally can't surpass Barry
He did in both speed and personality. Even now Barry is devolving as a character, going from a good father figure to a massive loner fuck up with no friends.

>>94748470
>something is shit but can get better
>I think Barry's run is shit but can't get better!

You're a faggot idiot hypocrite with no taste, go figure.

>>94748364
To start off, I wasn't speaking about you specifically, retard, I was referring to Barryfags in general who became fans through the tv show.

Also

>I-I totally started with Johns, guys.

Sure, Flash Rebirth at best.

>>94748432

>What is reading comprehension

And here I was thinking no legacy character fan-feud would surpass the lows of Hal Jordan VS. Kyle Rayner...

>>94748487
>I started with Johns Barry run
Exactly. That makes you a faggot. You started reading the Flash during the start of it's dark ages.
>>94748522
>Hypocrite
I am not. Barry coming back ruined the Flash legacy, it ruined Barry's death as well. Barry coming back fucked over the Flash permanently. The Flash was a Legacy Character and now it's just Barry, the fuck up. You can't undo that.

>>94748187
It's the sort of shitposting that /pol/ does. They're being idiotic on purpose, but they also truly believe what they're saying.

>>94748528
Yeah man that's totally why I know everything about Wally's run. I only read Barry's shit and I'm just faking it.

>>94748489
>Instead of reading the classics I am going to read mediocre shit and defend it
Yep, shit.

>>94748553
Johns WALLY run you fucking idiot. What part of mid 2000s don't you get? The part where Barry was still dead?

Jesus, I figured saying the fucking years would've been enough but you're either too stupid or you're actually the new fag who doesn't know the timeline of this stuff. Good job pretending to be a Flash hipster you dumbfuck.

>>94748550
It's basically Wally Fans versus shitposters pretending to be Barry fans. It's the exact same "barryfan" who comes into every single thread.

>>94748560
You learned all your shit from Wallyfags giving you the facts.

>>94748580

>Everything new is bad guise!

This reminds me of all the butthurt over Miles Morales when he was introduced.

Miles had shit stories but it's not like Peter's stories before Miles were fucking great either, they sucked. Just characterfags whining.

>>94748606
Wallyfags are the worst comic fans on /co/ and always have been. Stop trying to deflect.

>>94748594
>I started with Wally's run
This makes you a faggot for not starting with an earlier run. it also makes you a faggot for reading Johns shit first and reading the worst of Wally's run and then the worst of Barry's run and then thinking you know shit.

Describe Barry Allen and Wally West's personalities

>>94748617
What? I'm the one who brought up ROBA, Blitz, Chain Lightning, etc. The Wallyfags here don't even know when Johns' Wally run was, apparently.

>>94748637
>Defending Miles Morales now
Holy shit. I didn't realize Barryfags were Miles fags too. THis is gold.
>>94748641
>T-They are the worst because they keep owning me and because they read the comic before it went to shit!

>>94748649

>You're a faggot for not starting earlier
>Guy posts he did start earlier
>NO I MEAN EVEN earlier

Calm the fuck down guy, they're only funnybooks.

>>94748666
>Barry Allen

Carlton

>Wally West

Will

>>94748641
>The majority of /co/ is the worst
Kek. 99% of /co/ is Wallyfags.
>>94748670
>Reading Blitz before Born to Run at least
Faggot.
>>94748688
>I will start at the end of a story so I have an opinion of that story

>>94748666
Barry Allen: Loves science, a bit of a longer but really friendly when engaged. Great teacher and loves teaching. A bit of a sappy romantic.

Wally West: Impulsive idiot who acts first and thinks later. Has a big temper. Like to joke around sarcastically because of said temper. Has a massive inferiority complex to other, more established heroes.

>>94748680

>Defending Miles
>"Miles had shit stories"

So Wallyfags can't read apparently, that explains a lot.

>>94748716
Most of /co/ doesn't read comics to be Wallyfags. Most of /co/ is cartoon fags.

Wally's a fucking faggot for being a dick to Kyle when he was new and he was a huge dick during Identity Crisis with his holier than thou attitude towards Green Arrow, and I don't even fucking like Green Arrow.

>>94748719
Apparently you do because you can't read the thread and continue making the exact same shit argument like how Barry's current run keeps making the same shit story over and over.

>>94748464
>Broke my legs, let me make the gayest Flash suit ever out of speedforce to save the day
>Mirror Master reverses Linda Park to go through life backwards for some reason

These were great though

>That Wally/Kyle/GA team up where they're in court with the badguys was boring as shit for something with such a cool premise.

No one is dumb enough to read Kyle comics, anon

>>94748718
Strange that the characters flipped.
>Wally matures and becomes a great father figure
>Barry becomes a sad longer fuck up who acts before thinking

>>94748748
Everyone gave Kyle shit when they first met him. I'm the anti-Wallyfag here and even I don't bat an eye at that.

>>94748752

That post sure made a ton of sense.

>>94748743
Anyone who likes cartoon Wally isn't a Wallyfag, they know an OC that merely uses his name. He's almost as mischaracterized as CW speedsters. Literally the only common trait is the womanizing (and they still got that wrong by having him be unsuccessful most of the time).

>>94748666
Barry

>Dutiful.
>Optimistic.
>Nerdy, but grew out of it.
>A bit of a lone wolf.
>A darkness deep down that he tries to suppress.


Wally

>Courageous.
>Never gives up.
>Funny.
>A bit impulsive.
>Insecure, but came into his own.
>Cocky, but matured out of it.

>>94748776
Wally was an awful dad. He was a complete shithead to Bart when Bart was his sidekick and his time with the Twins were the worst comics in Flash history.

So no, Wally's not much of a father figure. Especially in Titans right now. Dude's immature as shit.

>>94748792
So you admit you have shit reading comprehension.

>>94738020
>Colbalt Red

>>94748797
>>Courageous.
>>Never gives up.
>>Funny.

All of these things are true about Barry, too.

Wally's a slightly more impulsive Barry. Lamest ripoff ever.

Anyone know the Arc where Wally admits he is pro death Penalty?
>>94748806
He was a shithead to Bart because Bart was a shithead. He fucked everything up when he was first training.

>>94748810

>Say Miles has shit stories
>Misconstrue that as a defense of Miles
>Tell someone elsethey have shit reading comprehension

You gotta stop projecting man. I get that you're upset but it's time to relax.

>>94748841
Wally was a shithead too and Barry was patient and kind to him.

Barry's great, Wally's a fuckup. Bart's awful too.

>Barry Allen

Has had one shit costume

>Wally West

Has had too many shit costumes and a fucking soul patch

>>94748833
Excepts that's not true at all. Barry has given up several times. In the current Flash run Barry is a fucking loner sad faggot.
>>94748850
>Guise leave Miles alone, it's not his fault he is shit, you shouldn't hate a person who has had all these shit stories because Peter had a few bad stories too!!

>>94748841
Probably the Identity Crisis tie-in, but I can't remember it explicitly.

>>94748869
No where near on the level of Bart. Wally was a true bro.
>Barry's great
Which Barry? They keep changing his personality because he is so boring.

>>94748879

>A few

Ultimate sucked, like everything Bendis does that wasn't Dark Avengers. If you were a real Spider-Man fan you'd have started with 616.

>>94748879
>Excepts that's not true at all. Barry has given up several times. In the current Flash run Barry is a fucking loner sad faggot.

By that token Wally gave up during Black Flash and at the end of Blitz. Fuck, during the end of Blitz Barry had to convince him not to give up.

Barry died saving the universe. If that's not the epitome of not giving up then nothing is. Wally gave up when his girlfriend died, something Barry experienced (only it was his wife of multiple years) and moved on.

>>94748875
I like Wally's Kid Flash and current costume.

>>94748908
Dark Avengers shit all over established characterization, only idiots liked it

>>94748925
At least that made sense then and at the end of it he changed his mind. Barry has been a sad sack loner for years now.
>>94748908
Peter still has a lot of Great stories. Miles has none. Wally still has a lot of great stories, Post return Barry has none.

>>94748779

Yeah but Wally had racism behind it, just like how he hated black people as Kid Flash.

>>94748976

>Peter still has a lot of Great stories.

Yes, in 616.

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How can someone seriously defend Barry?
I know a lot of these people are just shitposters but not all of them are. How can someone defend a man who hasn't had a single good run since he returned? How? FUCKING HOW?!

>>94749017
I would get it if they actually recced his bronze age stuff, but it truly is just shitposting at this point.

But cartoon Wally was a shitty pathetic loser, anon. Don't post him in this sacred thread.

>>94749017

>Posts DCAU trash
>The show where everyone was massively OOC

The epitome of casual.

>>94748986
Wally putting blacks in their place and fucking over communists were the best part of that TT run.

>>94748976
>At least that made sense then and at the end of it he changed his mind. Barry has been a sad sack loner for years now.

But he's never given up. Wally's been edgy and sad plenty of times. Even when Barry lost his powers he didn't give up.

>>94749017
>How can someone defend a man who hasn't had a single good run since he returned?

Why do you go on the internet to lie?

>>94749065
Wally has lost his power multiple times anon. It's a very common trope.
>>94749051
>New 52 fag insulting the animated DC cartoons
They had a different cannon to the comics but they were good you faggot.

>>94749087
He didn't though. Can you prove him wrong?

Being part of the Teen Titans at one time or another practically guarantees you're a shit character. The only one to escape this curse was Dick.

>>94749120
Apparently not since Wally is one of the most well developed characters DC has ever written. Also
>Donna
>Bad

Barry never had a friend as cool as Castro. Checkmate atheists.

in b4 "b-but Schwartz"

When did he rule a country?

>>94749093
>Wally has lost his power multiple times anon. It's a very common trope.

Not really. Heck one story was about how he totally couldn't lose his powers to Savitar.

>>94749139
How in the world is Donna good? She is the poster girl for shitty editorial mismanagement and no character direction. She's never been the main character of a single good story.

>>94749139

Donna sucks too, fuck Kon as well

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>>94749142
Pied Piper was also cool
>>94748869
Wally later loved Bart.

>>94749220
I don't count Piper because Barry stole him

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>>94748666
Real Barry

>Upstanding citizen
>A bit on the corny side
>Old school romantic
>Responsible
>Resourceful
>Fearless to a T


Nu Barry

>Mommas boy
>Constant fuck up
>Irresponsible and selfish
>Self loathing at times


Wally

>Goes through a real character arc
>Massive Flash fanboy
>A bit of a loner as a kid
>Becomes more outgoing in his adolescences
>Later too outgoing and becomes a bit of a womanizer
>Has a snarky attitude
>Rude and a bit arrogant
>Self loathing because he thinks he can't measure up to Barry
>Grows into a responsible hero and father even better than his mentor ever was

>>94749158
>lost his powers
Wasn't that the same fucking time his wife died right in front of him? Are you really going to give him shit for being sad after that?

>>94749220
Wally loved Bart regardless because Iris told him to. But Wally was still a constant fucking shithead towards him.

>>94749220

Loved him enough to let him die apparently

Wally>Old Barry>Old man Jay>Bart>Young man Jay>Nu Barry
New 52 was so shit. It introduced the speed force and light speed travel years before they should have. They could have built it up to mean something.

>>94749250
Wally is a demonstrably terrible father and mentor. Even Waid, Wally's biggest fan, made him a shitty dad in his KC universe.

>>94749281
Wally was in another universe when Inertia killed Bart. Bart got better like 5 months later or some shit.

>>94749017
Because his runs have been consistently mediocre instead of outright bad, most of his creative teams clearly didn't have a direction or a strong handle on the character when they were working on him, and I'm also a fan of Superman and Wonder Woman who've had so many bad runs it'd be a chore just to count them. I love Barry Allen's Silver Age run, and I think seeing that fully realized with modern storytelling techniques would be amazing. Just because some people haven't written good material for the character doesn't mean the character is inherently bad. Hell, Mr. Terrific's awful New 52 solo didn't make him ruined forever.

>>94749282
>Young man Jay

you need to split this into old young man Jay (golden age, flashbacks) and new young man Jay (new 52 E2) because E2 is definitely worse than Nu Barry

>>94749251

>Losing your powers because you're sad

What a fucking gay excuse. Just as weak as Tobey Maguire.

>>94749250
>Wally goes from a loner to an upstanding man
>Barry goes from an upstanding man to a loner

>>94749323
That is how the Speed force worked in the 90s. It was basically Spiral power. That is also how it works in the show since most of the shit from the show was taken form Wally.

Reminder that Barry is the worst dad for caring more about his mother who was dead most of his life than his own children. He literally didn't even think to save Don and Dawn.

>>94749373
He cared more about a random kid he met Wally than he did his real kids. Barry is a weird guy.

>>94749386
What? Wally was introduced to him by Iris. He died before his kids were born.

When Flash Rebirth brought him back the future had already been fucked up by all the LOSH reboots that the Tornado Twins being his kids thing was something he couldn't get near.

New 52 Flash is so shit. Barry basically started at the beginning at full power without having it be built up and nothing new ever happens. Why couldn't they have just had it be a new Flash?
Black Wally might have started out as a a diversity quota character but is becoming a better character than fucking Barry.

>>94749286
You got me on mentor, but Wally was far and away a better dad than Barry even if he wasn't all that.

>>94749251
No, I don't think he was wrong for that. But saying he never gives up moreso than Barry is silly when Wally's given up a number of times. Barry only ever retired and was immediately met by the universe being in trouble, which he then sacrificed himself to stop.

>>94749414
Barry started a family with Iris in the future if I remember correctly. He knew about his kids before Flashpoint and should have known about them after he came back.

>>94749434
How? He was an awful dad.

Barry raised Wally. Judging by you Wallyfags I think you'd say he did a pretty good job considering Wally's entire fucking character is "What would Barry do?" personified.

Barry never had a chance to raise his real kids.

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>>94749414
>When Flash Rebirth brought him back the future had already been fucked up by all the LOSH reboots that the Tornado Twins being his kids thing was something he couldn't get near.

Wrong, it was smoothed out in a tie-in to the same story that brought him back (Final Crisis). Written by Johns. He should have remembered them.

>>94749482
Right, Barry can't go back and raise the Tornado Twins without changing their very important timeline. If Barry's involved things get really fucked up.

Also I'm pretty sure LOSH get rebooted anothe time after this.

>>94749478
Barry is a good father figure. Too bad that got fucked up when he came back. Too bad most Barryfags only read flash was destroyed as a character. That is why most of /co/ hates you Barryfags.

>>94749423
I think you're expecting things you shouldn't, Anon. Flash being OP and the world ramping up to match has been a big part of the character ever since Barry was first introduced. Wally was that way too when he was the Flash.

>>94749520
Yeah but with Wally it was a slow burn. Read his run from start to finish and you will realize how many years it took.

>>94749510
If it's a comic past CoIE, just assume the LoSH is being rebooted.

>>94749517
He turned black-wally from troubled shitty youth gangster to a superhero. They had a recent falling out over Barry's identity but what little fathering Barry's gotten to do he aced.

>>94749548
Black Wally hates Barry and has a good reason to.
Nu Barry is just so shitty.

>>94749510
I don't see where you're getting that he couldn't have at least prevented them from dying if he was ready to prevent his mother's murder. It's literally the same thing. He chose to disregard the lives he and his wife decided to make. That makes him a bad father (though perhaps a good son, idk).

>Also I'm pretty sure LOSH get rebooted anothe time after this.

Nope. Some deaths got retconned between Levitz and Lemire and the Reboot kids seemingly join them off-screen, but it was still Retroboot.

>All these newfags defending post New 52 Barry the fuck up

>>94749533
It really wasn't. Wally learns new tricks as time goes on, but he starts incredibly powerful (hell his hang-ups are absolutely absurd applications of speed, vibrating through matter has never bothered to actually make sense [which is why I love it.]). Speedsters are inherently OP and the Flash has always played with that.

>>94748641
>Wallyfans are the worst comic fans on /co/
HAHAHAHA
I love this newfag butthurt.
>S-Stop complaining you entitled gamers

>>94749568
Secret identities are not a good reason. Wally's just got PTSD from the completely reasonable secrets everyone keeps keeping from him.

If Barry just spilled the beans to everyone he got mildly close to there'd be no point in hiding his identity.

>>94749601
>on, but he starts incredibly powerful

So you didn't read Baron or WML is what you're saying?

>>94749601
He could only run at the speed of sound when he first started anon. He was by far the weakest Flash then.
>>94749626
>Reasonable
It's not. keeping your secret identity from your sidekick and soon to be wife is retarded for many reasons.

>>94749590
The mother dying thing he only did because of Mirror Master's brain fuckery. Which he then tried to fix but, you know, Manhattan.

>>94749631
Honestly, not their whole runs. But I did get a good portion through, and Wally's no slouch.

>>94744316

also John Stewart was far miles better than Kyle, and it rendered one of the best shits that it was him and Shayera

>>94749650
>Soon to be wife

They were dating for like a week, dude. What the fuck?

And yes, if your sidekick isn't up to snuff and you gotta get them to stop then it's a good thing you didn't give them your secret identity. Superman doesn't tell Jimmy Olsen who he is for years and he's not a horrible father figure for it.

>>94749653
Before the mirror he thought about his mother's death while even in the middle of a time travel arc we never see him mention his children at all. He has a fucking asshole.

>>94749692
...Did Barry know the deal with his kids? Iris never told him. I mean he knows he has some at some point because of Bart but we never see him get the details. How would he know they were wrongfully killed?

Maybe Iris is just a shitty mother.

Wally never sent his Kid Flash off to be mentored by Deathstroke

>>94738314
Barry was brought back so he'd get protected by movie synergy. Like how Suicide Squad got transformed into a Harley Quinn book in the New 52, because they wanted to clean it up for possible movie pitches.

>>94749722
No but he never even talks to Bart about anything that ever happens in his life. So he wouldn't know.

Also Barry probably still assumes Wally is working with the Teen Titans. Wally cut off ties before he joined Defiance.

>>94749722
Wally wouldn't put in that much effort.

>>94749721
Well Iris is the one who brought Bart to the present in the first place, so she certainly knew. She should have said something, but him not asking is pretty bad too. Maybe they deserve each other then.

>>94749809
I mean Barry probably knows his kids are in the future and time traveling to go hang out with kids who've already had enough of a life to pop out Bart is a no no.

He only went after his mom because Thawne killed her. If his mom died without time travel shenanigans I don't think even the Mirror Master brain fuckery would've caused him to undo it. It's not like he went back in time to save his grandad from Leukemia or kill Hitler or something. It was explicitly malicious time travel.

>>94749855
Zoom time traveling to the future to chase them around the multiverse certainly seems like something he should try to stop. Specific circumstances of the deaths weren't really given though, probably a story Johns intended to tell along with the rest of his run that never happened (it's not fair).

>>94750029
He didn't know about that, though. He only knew about Nora because Zoom told him to his face.

So, no one is goint to talk about How DC is going to kill Wally in Rebirth because of everyone's most hated asshole kid

>MUH DAMIAN

>>94750057
I just lean on the fact that if he didn't know it's his fault for not even thinking to ask because the information was there for him. And perhaps Iris is also at fault for not offering it up, but he is not blameless. He's just a shit dad. Have to accept it.

>>94750086
You really think they're going to kill Wally for Damian?

>>94750140
Damian's headlined like 10 movies. If they had to choose between Wally and Damian they pick Damian 10 times out of 10 and it's not even close. The Batman connection alone makes him a billion times more valuable than Wally.

>>94750129
How would a person think to ask if their speculative future children are killed by a time traveler

>>94750172
>Hey, how are the kids? Who did they marry? Do we have grandkids other than Bart and Jenni?

These are not crazy questions to ask when you need to be updated on the life you've missed.

>>94750129
He was only back for like a week and everything went to hell. Dude didn't even have his life together, as we saw in vol 3, before Flashpoint happened.

Also I don't think Iris knows the reboot origin. In the original story in Waid's run the Tornado Twins died fighting an alien invasion, which is par for the course hero stuff and not a time travel mishap she'd tell Barry to go fix.

>People defending the man who fucked over the time line creating New 52

>>94750140

Damian ALREADY fucked up wally's existance in Rebirth with that autistic plot

>>94750165
I mean that you think they're forced to kill Wally for Damian's sake.

>>94750254
I'm not the same guy. I was just answering the hypothetical.

It was just Abnett and Priest's dumbfuck idea because Priest is Wolfman's student and Wolfman did this shit already.

>>94750205
He went back to fucking work before asking about his fucking children? You're not helping his case.

>Also I don't think Iris knows the reboot origin.

She's there in the FC retcon though. Even if she wasn't certain that it was a different universe she had to have known that Zoom had been chasing her kids around and all.

>In the original story in Waid's run the Tornado Twins died fighting an alien invasion, which is par for the course hero stuff and not a time travel mishap she'd tell Barry to go fix.

Maybe this is the case, but I still think he should have mourned them even if he didn't feel like it was right to change. His mother had been dead almost all his life, but his children dying would be a fresh wound that deserved mention.

He either did not ask about them or did not care that they died. Either one is fucked up.

>>94750329
The timeline changed relative to the Legion but Iris was already decoupled from that timeline. She didn't just wake up one morning with new LOSH memories.

I mean who even knows with Iris. When Barry came back she de-aged like 20 years. Maybe that entire part of her life just vanished.

Also, if we're talking memories, he literally never met his kids. He wouldn't have anything to reminisce about or a grave to visit. Everyone eventually dies in the future. You can't get hung up on something that hasn't even happened relative to you.

>>94750329
How mad are you right now that some day years in the future your kids will die? Does it affect you more than it does the thought of your parents dying/being dead?

I think you're trying to make this more unnatural than it is.

>>94738020
Bart will always be the best Flash but Barry is getting better thanks to his relationship with Jess and their new kids.

>>94750372
How would you feel if someone told you that, many years in the future, long after you're dead, your kids will die saving the world?

Would it piss you off? Would you be willing to time travel to go stop their deaths?

Thank about what you're saying because it seems like you'll skew any little thing you can to shit on Barry. Which is the fucking point of this thread here and what I've been trying to bat off. Barry's fucking great. This mealymouthed "Wally's the most perfectest ever and no one will ever be better than him" shit is so obnoxious.

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>>94750303

this is because Abnett is doing DC shit on automatic mode, UNTIL Black Library hires him again to finish the Horus Heresy.

He's better when hes doing crazy space shit as 40k like Gaunt's ghosts and FUCKING Eisenhorn

>>94750449
ok I'm the Barryfag and this shit is cancer

>>94750372
He and Iris chose to have children together. He was emotionally invested. It should have been one of the first things he asked about rather than something that literally never came up.

>>94750398
I'm not a time traveller married to a time traveller wife and hanging out with my time travelling grandson and not asking how his dad is.

It's insanity that you are defending this. At the very least it's a plothole and at the worst it makes Barry a bad parent.

>>94750496
Aquaman has been great, though. Maybe he just needs that kind of imperial/kingdom backdrop to succeed. Or Lanning.

>>94750449
now THIS is shitposting

>>94750496
Honestly I don't know, giving Wally timestop instead of benching him because of the heart is kind of clever.

>>94750524
He died before they were born. I'm saying maybe he did ask about them. I suppose it should've been shown in the comic but I get the feeling is they veto'd that because they were trying to bury Wally's run.

It's not insanity that the time traveler doesn't want to time travel to prevent what is as good and natural a death as any hero gets. They died SAVING THE WORLD. Why would Barry go stop that? Would he keep time traveling until they die of old age?

Should Wally have gone back and tried to find a way to stop Barry from dying in COIE? Think about what you're saying.

>>94750540
Time stop is stupid. That was the worst thing about New 52 Thawne. Repeating the mistake with Wally is awful.

>>94750497
>>94750540
I'm being honest on both of those statements, Bart was my first Flash and I loved to read Barry and Jess with their son and daughters this week (is there some cute fan art of the new Flashfamily yet???)

>>94749548
>>94749568
>>94749722
Barry and everyone else failed Wally.In one issue Defiance have been better teammates to Wally than the TT

>>94750682
If Bart is your favorite Flash than Barry + Jess being canon literally stops him from existing. Not only is your taste bad, it's inherently contradictory stupidity.

>>94750575
The insanity part to me is people trying to play the idea that he just wouldn't ask about his children at all as if that's sensible.

I'm guessing either way it was supposed to come up later, but we can only go by what's on page and he doesn't mention them. That's not good and reflects poorly on him.

>Should Wally have gone back and tried to find a way to stop Barry from dying in COIE? Think about what you're saying.

This actually was addressed, but he wasn't able to contain the particles. It had to be Barry, as far as he could tell.

>>94750682
please leave

>>94750832
He only did that after Barry was killed by Cobalt Blue. I'm talking about should Wally have gone back in time as soon as he had the power to to save Barry from the Crisis? Should he go back in time every time someone dies in comics? Should he have gone back in time to stop Thawne from killing Iris the first time? Should he have gone back in time to stop J'onn from dying? Anyone?

I mean you're opening up a can of worms if you think someone should time travel anytime someone close to them has a relatively natural death. If time travel is involved and you're stopping someone from changing the time stream, sure. But only Brainiac 5 seemingly knew about that part with the Tornado Twins.

Barry's only crime was not finding a woman of another race to COLONIZE. Until now anyway

>>94738438
>Barry was brought back because Ethan van Sciver was being a contrarian AS USUAL

>>94750449
Fuck off Hitch

>>94751041
rip Wally's red headed asian kid.

She probably would've been the ultimate waifu when she grew up.