Is he a shitty nemesis?

>>94688327
i see him more as a plot device than a character

>>94688327
yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yM3Zh9TwtE

>>94688327
In all appearances after his first, yes.

>>94688327
He's completely pointless. He can't ever be destroyed so in the end only he will stand.

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>>94688327
Pretty sure he's stronger than any Tyrant let alone Nemesis

>>94689005
Basically,

wasn't he never intended to be used again after the death story?

>>94688327
I never liked it anytime DC presented a non flying, really strong brick as the nemesis of Superman. It always seemed like they are missing too many powers to really be a good opposite to him.

Mobility being a huge one, if they cannot fly and are not as fast then they should not be as huge of a threat to him.

>>94688327
>is Evil Hulk minus personality a shitty nemesis?
Gee, do you think?

>>94688327
He's a shitty non-character, a walking plot-bomb designed for one dramatic purpose, and he should NEVER have been brought back from the story he was introduced in.

>>94689005
Really this. He's not a character, he's just a reason for the Death of Superman to happen.
Kinda like Bane, but Bane went on to do other things after he broke the bat. Doomsday didn't.

>>94691099
Instead of getting into a fistfight with the monster in the middle of the city with collateral damage everywhere Superman should have just tricked him into overextending himself then pushed/threw his spiky ass into space.
Could have either simply knocked him into deep space travelling into the void at high speed where he could no longer threaten Earth even if he didn't continue to fight him in an environment the one that can actually fly through space would have the advantage.

>>94691230
Just tossing him into space is enough half the time. It's not like Doomsday has any means of moving around in zer gravity.

>>94691099
DD is as fast as Flash, according ot Booster.

>>94691390
according to a guy that has no ability to make that call?

>>94691327
>>94691099

Only DoS Doomsday. H/P and after he's capable of some bullshit adaptation that allows him to deal with shit like that, like when he evolved some Scorpion's style kunai.

>>94691406
Superman was having trouble keeping up with him, so I don't see why not.

He's not as fast as Flash per se, but the intention of that line was to make it clear for the reader that Doomsday has super speed and isn't just a brick like Hulk.

>when u repost a fucking thread

>>94688327
He's not even a nemesis. He's a nuisance.

>>94691486
>kills Superman
>makes him shit his pants every time he shows up
>a nuisance

At this point Doomsday is more credible than Darkseid.

>>94691519
Doomsday is a bitch when he appears later, getting ganked by two supermen in a single page and such.

>>94691583
He wasn't a bitch in H/P or OWAW. DD Rex or the sentient DD don't count.

>>94690240
Don't kid yourself, his first appearance was shit as well. The only reason people even remember him is because he set off the whole "OMG SUPERMAN IS DED" storyline. The character itself was completely stupid and uninteresting.

I mean a completely new OC without any personality shows up, solos the entire JLI just to show how strong he is, and then proceeds to have a dreadfully unimaginative punch-out with Superman where they basically take turns hitting eachother EVEN HARDERER, ending in the "death" of them both. It was completely fucking stupid and if it wasn't for Super "dying" and the whole hyped-up storline involving his death and return, Doomsday would've been completely ignored for being a shit concept with no real redeeming qualities.

So, a question, /co/. We've established that Doomsday is shit, but how would you make him worthwhile?

Me, I'd make him sentient. A sort of super survivor hell bent on becoming the ultimate being, but who must grapple with the fact that, despite being more powerful, Superman can somehow beat the shit out of him. I think you could squeeze some interesting stories out of that.

>>94692030
Fuck that. Doomsday works best as a force of nature.

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>>94691519
>>"biggest achievement is "killing"
superman
>>turns out it was just a coma
>>hasn't even succeeded in killing or putting him in a coma ever since

When doomsday grows up in the same town as supes,fucks a robot version of his girlfriend and has a literal child with him,then well talk about nemesis

>>94688327

2017 is Doomsday's year! Doomsday Clock is gonna Make Doomsday Great Again!

>>94692030
Not that your idea is bad, but he shouldn't have been brought back after DoS period.

>>94692030
>Me, I'd make him sentient.
He's been sentient since Death of Superman you filthy casual. Or at least Hunter/Prey.

>>94691583
>doomsday kills one Superman, but almost dies doing so
>loses to two Supermen
>Doomsday is a bitch

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>>94692030
>becoming the ultimate being
So you want Kars

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>>94689005
This.

Even for "big strong guy" archetype, he's paper thin. A character like Grundy is more interesting.

>>94689005
>>94688327
He's not a plot device, he's a dragon. Which is close but still

In ye olde tales a hero fights a dragon, a monster far beyond them in power, that realistically they have no chance against. Its a miracle they could beat it, but they beat it in the end because they're the hero.

You ask what personality the dragon is meant to have, its not meant to have one, its a dragon. Superman cannot be threatened by monsters anymore, he beats everything while yawning with a finger flick. He beats the embodiment of the multiverse itself while jacking off because writers are so shitty at writing him.

So they created a dragon that he couldn't just punch away, something that reduces Superman back into just being a man when he's facing it. That's the point of Doomsday, it removes Superman's invincibility and returns him to being a hero who struggles once more whenever this thing is around, because he can't just beat it with a finger flick while yawning.

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>>94695491

The dragon is the plot device in your stupid analogy, dummy.

>>94695340
He never killed superman

>>94689005
>meme opinion

>>94695403
Kars would make for a great villain for some heroes, but he's too underpowered compared to Superman.

Considering he was originally defeated by being thrown into space, his evolution powers don't help much against someone who can do that with ease.

>>94688327
He needs to be retired for a long time. His first appearance was great because he was an unstoppable force of nature, since then he's just become a jobber.

>>94691166
>plot-bomb designed for one dramatic purpose, and he should NEVER have been brought back from the story he was introduced in.

This, basically. Served his purpose back in the 90's.

>>94691171
Bane had his own miniseries and a back story when he was introduced.

>>94692030

>Me, I'd make him sentient. A sort of super survivor hell bent on becoming the ultimate being, but who must grapple with the fact that, despite being more powerful, Superman can somehow beat the shit out of him. I think you could squeeze some interesting stories out of that.

Making him Vegata isn't the answer.

>>94688327
One time story arc he's great! As a nemesis, he's terrible.

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Honestly, I'd move him away from being a brute and towards the whole "force of nature" idea. Like, instead of a Hulk knockoff with bone claws, why not a truly titanic monster? Something on the scale of Godzilla or the Midgard Serpent. It'd give him a niche in the rogues gallery because Superman doesn't have many giant monsters, it'd give him an epic scale, and it'd make the fights a lot more visually interesting than a slugfest.

Besides, if you want a mindless villain who's just flat-out stronger than Supes, the Galactic Golem just does everything Doomsday does better.

>>94692030
>So, a question, /co/. We've established that Doomsday is shit,
No we didn't, you agreeing with yourself doesn't work like that.

>but how would you make him worthwhile?
He's got to be a force of nature, something that causes shit to get serious every time he shows up. Someone who is never dealt with easily.

So far only maybe two of his appearances were decent. His first confrontation was good, but most shit after that have fucked up. His first appearance was good because they took it seriously, he was a monster beyond control, there was no reasoning with him, no negotiating, he was a force of nature. He's lost meaning over the years because each subsequent appearance has been pretty shit. Its like Galactus in that respect.

>>94695931
>LE EVERYTHING I DISAGREE WITH IS A MEME meme

>>94691519
Everyone is a more credible threat than Darkseid.

There was a story where doomsday became a good guy

>>94688327
He's a pretty good brute force opponent. I don't mind him.

>>94697438
Darkseid at least has a personality and a motivation and represents something. Like, I won't deny, when he's bad, he's basically just a Mongul knockoff (which is kinda depressing when you think about it). But when he works, he really works.

>>94690351
>>/Superman/

>>94692030

https://youtu.be/6wcpO317Sq8

>>94689005

He isn't shitty per say. He was pretty great in his first appearence. Solos JLI then he gets superman and him to punch themselves to death. Fantastic.

After that initial appearence...Just like Bane. 90s DCs were good for alternative comics and DC in general but some of the villains are simplistic. I sort of like Doomsday just for being this kryptonian t-rex of a bastard who is a world level threat every time without needed to go on about speeches, philosophy, have henchmen, secret base and all that.

>>94694315
Rest now, sweet child.

If it were up to you, how could Doomsday have been done better?

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>>94688327
Great design, dumb name, good in small doses.

My dream is a story where a rampaging Doomsday gets roped into really insane cosmic adventures, becoming an accidental hero, complete with "love interest". The entire time he's just smashing shit mindlessly, coming close to killing his "allies" but never succeeding due to circumstance. All the while his "allies" gush about what a wonderful person he is.

>>94701798
>this pops up in the action comics arc about doomsday
>get really confused

>>94688327
I liked him in the Booster Gold Flashpoint tie-in.

Then again, i liked that whole story in general.

>>94691171
Do we know why they went this route instead of just using Luthor or Braniac or whatever?

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>>94694618

Doomsday has always been sentient enough to enjoy what he does.

>>94703111
>established later that he did that because he saw the bird as a threat

Fuck this company

>>94703003
They didn't want him to die to a sciency villain, they just wanted a slugfest

>>94703003

Luthor was in the middle of a storyline where he was in a clone body and pretending to be his own son. His anger at someone else killing Superman moved his own plot forward, as he lost his temper, killed one of his employees, and tried to cover it up.

The Superman books had just done a Braniac crossover, "Panic in the Sky" months earlier, which would be why they didn't use him.

The point was for it not to be the same old villains Superman had already beaten time and time again, but a new threat from out of nowhere. An unstoppable, relentless, remorseless monster that cannot be reasoned with, more force of nature than person.

>>94703236
>>established later that he did that because he saw the bird as a threat

That sounds retarded. What issue did that?

>>94691171
What has Bane done since he broke the bat? I honestly can't think of any other good stories he's had.

>>94703340

Bane's 2 best stories are Knightfall and The Plane Scene, and they aren't in the same continuity as each other.

>>94703277
Hunter/Prey established that because of the way he was created, Doomsday sees literally anything that moves as a potential threat

Admittedly it does alleviate the hokeyness of him attacking Metropolis because of a pro wrestling pay per view ad he saw

Sometimes people just like seeing two super heavyweights slug it out,not expecting much of a story but hoping for a good fight and in that regard he's atleast a decent upper B/bottom A list character

>>94697278

N52 DD had the right Idea, making him into a teleporting Brute with an autokill Aura and later a virus, fist time in a long while that anyone showed that adaptation was DD's thing.