Why do you think Loud House has been such a hit?

Pedos

>>94688014
Girls. Just: Girls.

If you ever wonder why shows are being watched in the first place (i.e. Totally Spies) just think first: Girls.

>>94688180
Oh, don't forget LoliRock.

>the creator of this drew an incest based comic
>got this show made

He must have a permanent boner in studio 24/7

>>94688014
>likeable characters in a not overly obnoxious or stupid scenarios
Geez i wonder why. You dont think kids dont get tired of TTG?

>>94688014
Nothing else to watch.

>>94688215
>be creator
>successfully gain access to Nickelodeon
>even bringing in some of the best ratings and everything
>but that wasn't part of the plan, just a welcome addition
>nobody knows true plot
>one boy with 10 other sisters
>surprised nobody caught on
>secretly making the public more comfortable incest
>little by little add more
>by the time someone notices, the damage will be done

>>94688227
>Geez i wonder why.

*Geez, I wonder why.

>>94688014
pedohiles

>>94691439
>Geez, I wonder why.

*Jizz in Pinkie Pie.

It's just a genuinely good slice of life cartoon without any overarching plots.

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>>94688014
That is because it's a good slice of life cartoon, and we do not get many of them now a days.

>>94688165
>>94691452
more like mlpg

>>94688040
Now this is beautiful. I wonder what it is about family based shows that draws this guys attention. First gravity falls now this.

>>94691940
Really anon?

You haven't a clue? Are you sure?

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>>94688215
>Chris Savino parading around the office

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>good character designs that are also easy for kids to emulate
>each character has a distinct personality and color theme making them easy to distinguish and remember
>entertaining scenario that hasn't been done before like two idiot buddies, talking animals, capeshit, or stoner humor like 99% of what other comedy cartoons are right now
>not afraid to pull any punches when it comes to humor
>despite the name "loud" is not actually a hugely loud or off the walls cartoon like Fairly Oddparents or Screamball, characters only yell when they are actually angry or in distress not 99% of the time they are talking, this makes it less irritating to follow

>>94691940
incest and pedophilia

>>94691452
Pedophiles, sad neckbeards, lonely nerds... Basically the bronies. The animators knew the audience they were going to reel in with their huge cast of girls. But sadly, turning LH into a fairly uninspired harem cartoon ultimately harmed it. Eleven characters could be the entire cast in another cartoon, but if you're aiming for a family variety show you need to take time to develop the sisters, the parents, and Lincoln himself.

That's going to take a lot of time and effort with eleven siblings, then the two parents, then you need to do Lincoln himself. Then there's fucking Clyde, the biggest stain on the show by far. It's doable, you just need time which isn't infinite. Your eleven minute format is going to go stale pretty damn fast. But then LH runs into another problem directly tied to the harem genre.

You can't develop these characters. They need to keep that theme, they need predictable personalities, and Lincoln must always be a self insert. The fans don't want girls with a multifaceted personality with ambitions and dreams like a real person, no. They want generic, safe, cardboard cutouts to imagine themselves going on a date with. Lynn will always be the brash tomboy, Lucy will always be the morbid goth (despite apparently liking a baseball player), Whori will always be the bossy villain with Bobba Hill Santiago the II as her hanger on. Do something like say, Lucy getting thrown out of her respective clique and forcing her to develop her own personality, and she stops being the goth.

She becomes Lucy the character and the bronies will get scared. Just like they did when the purple pony got a boyfriend.

>>94690319
>Loud House turned into an explicit incest harem so gradually, I didn't even notice

>>94693297
>Whori

>>94693297
>people who make content are pedophiles, neckbeards, muh dick etc except the OP was talking about why it is a hit which refers mainly to it being successful amongst kids
>every cartoon now needs development and overarching plots because shows like GF/AT/SU tried and failed at doing it
Take yourself back to /r/The_Cheeto, with your reddit spacing.

>>94691940
>guys attention

*guy's attention

>>94688014
No one talks about it except you underage/manchild autist

Why are all characters so ugly? I can't fap to this.

It's actually funny and doesn't have an inferiority complex over being a cartoon like SU or Gumball.

>>94688014
I like the comic style design of the show.
I just wish the episodes weren't 15 minutes long, i think it lessens the impact of each lesson learned at the end of the episodes. I would recommend this show openly if the episodes were more like the santa episode or the ronnie anne episode.
But mostly for the r34, yeah.

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>>94696598
You need to get your eyes checked...

>>94696936
>a simplistic stick figure with a deformed head and ugly face
Yeah, I'm the one with an eye problem.

>>94696936
You're the one who needs to get their eyes checked. Had to go and pick the worst sister didn't you?

>>94697050
Lisa is worst sister.

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>>94697050
>worst sister

That's no way to talk about Lisa.

this cartoon has the worst fanbase of any cartoon running nowadays, OKKO faggots want to beat them in the obnoxious department.

>>94691439
Shut the fuck up grammar fag

>>94697050
Shittposting aside, Lisa takes the cake on that regard. I'm not even bullying, I hate Lola, but being honest here, if Lisa were to disappear, nobody would complain.

>>94697094
>>94697070
All this shit taste. You probably like Luna and Lori too, don't you?

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>>94696936
>Leni hair on a shit stain like Lynn

even lynnfags know Leni is the better sister. so bad that they copy her.

Because the gay parents really make you appreciate how diverse our culture is, how we can have things like this on TV now

I'm joking but I'm sure someone actually believes this

>>94697188
Luna and Lori is just as shit.

>>94697188
Leni and Lola are best girls.

>>94697262
>Leni
>Lola

Although not best girls, they are pretty close.

>>94688014
He kinda lucked out. There were no decent shows on the radar and Nickelodeon was desperatly looking for a show to replace FOP with because it became stale. Also, there is no continuity and the concept allows you to write a shit ton of episodes.

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>>94697262
>purest sister and most developed sister
such comfy good taste

although Lori also got some nice CD now that she likes Clyde for the good reasons.

>>94694796
>kids
... I'm sure one could call manchildren kids.

>>94691736
>That is because it's a good slice of life cartoon, and we do not get many of them now a days.
More like it's just a slice of life cartoon in a time where plot driven shows are rising. Just because it's refreshing it doesn't make it necessarily good.
>inb4 [show]fag
Yes, there isn't much to pick from but that still doesn't make it inherently good, specially not as good as a lot of the fanbase actually think.

>>94688215
>the creator of this drew an incest based comic
sauce on this?

>>94698313
His ass

>>94691876
where is this from pls

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>likeable characters who are easy to identify
>obnoxiously positive theme of family is refreshing
>people who actually grew up with a bunch of siblings appreciate it on that level
>people who didn't can use it to fill the gaping void
>show basically screams "MARRY AND REPRODUCE," which is refreshing
>essentially a Western harem anime in a lot of ways; ground that hasn't been tread here
>fertile ground for incest shipping
>fertile ground for rooting for your favorite sister
>not a lot of slice-of-life cartoons out there nowadays
>sheer endearment
>best thing they have next to Spongebob now that they've shafted HB
>a few minor controversy stunts
>the sheer autismo of its fanbase online
>perverts

>>94692423
This.


Also, Lana is the most underrated and best sister.

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>>94696598
Tell me this isn't the hottest shit you've ever seen.

>>94698567
>not a lot of slice-of-life cartoons out there nowadays
Amen to that.
>best thing they have next to Spongebob now that they've shafted HB
Fuck them for doing that in the first place. Every good show gets cancelled before its finished.
>Also, Lana is the most underrated and best sister.
My nigga!

>>94688014
Waifus

>>94698313
>>94698360
the comics are called Oedipus Rex. It's about a catboy and his catmom. Look it up. The comics are in teh same style and they suck.

Appeals to the pedo autists that post here and to the kids cause of the toilet humor

>>94688180
Yet it's astonishing how shows are unable or unwilling to utilise that.
Usually the main cast is about 2-9 guys and one or two girls. Always. And one is always a love interest.
This way girls get barely any variations. She is forced to represent the entire gender, while the guys get to represent the guile types, the smart types and the tough types and any variations in between.

For future references, while the main character should be male (because for some reasons, girl watchers can identify with male characters as well, while it is very difficult to pull off the opposite effect, I think only Powerpuff Girls ever managed to pull it off), make the support characters slightly lopsided towards females. This is the golden ration of cartoons now. Look what wonders it did to a shit cartoon like The Loud House.

>>94697458
Bow to Queen Bulla bow you shits

>>94699115
>Grose is Savino
worst meme

>>94697126
It's horrible and really fucking sucks but there has to be worse.

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Look at its competition
>shitty remakes of cartoons most kids weren't even alive for their golden era (PPG, Teen Titans Go, drumpftales)
>cartoons that won't die and the showrunners have long since been phoning it in (Adventure time, spongebob, FOP, south park)
>agonizingly boring indie tier cartoons that can't keep any kid's attention (we boring bears or clarence being prime examples of this)
>lore cartoons that constantly get side tracked about unfunny filler because they're written by women who are naturally incapable of being funny (SU, Star, R&M)
>experimental cartoons that failed to garner any attention and were just too similar to others or otherwise just plain bad (bunsen is a beast, OK KO)

All Savino needed to do was assemble some all star VA talent, get a good composer, make some character designs that don't suck, center around strong family morals, and at least try somewhat with the humor, and he was able to create an already iconic cartoon for this decade.

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>>94699230
PPG pulled it off REALLY well, but it's also worth mentioning that the original PPG had a lot going for it in terms of action. Those fight sequences bordered on DBZ-tier a lot of the time, and the violence in the show got downright SADISTIC at least once an episode. The original pitch was supposed to be "sugar, spice, everything nice, and a can of Whoopass," and it showed. I remember identifying easily-enough with Pippi Longstocking when I was a little boy too, but she's just too awesome for any kid not to want to be her.

I dunno. I like a bunch of girls onscreen. It's comfy and relatable.

>>94699140
I'm not gonna lie. That pee gag in Linc or Swim actually got me to bust up pretty hard. I hadn't laughed at potty humor in YEARS and that joke with Lisa's anti-piss serum evaporating the entire pool got me out of nowhere.

>>94699361
We got banished to /trash/ before the show even aired. We're the worst.

>>94699421
Going to /trash/ wasn't forced upon TLH fans, they did it themselves because the level of overmoderation in the threads was obnoxious. It's one thing for people to be banned for outright breaking rules like no porn, its another thing when people are getting banned over screencaps from the actual show.

>>94688014
Pedobait aside, it's just a slightly above average slice of life cartoon that doesn't revolve around magical creatures or stoner comedy. There really isn't anything else like it airing nowadays so naturally kids will find it refreshing. But it wouldn't be nearly as popular, if it came out during the 90's or early 2000's when the genre was still common. That's really it. The show isn't that great. It just came out at the right time.

>>94699498
Then why have similar shows like WttW flopped hard?

>>94699511
>wttw
What?

>>94699564
Welcome to the Wayne.

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>>94699511
>>94699591
Did WttW really flop already? Fucking how? How do you guys know?

>>94699679
It got shitty ratings for its first week.

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>>94699712
>8.4/10 on imdb
>shitty ratings
What did he mean by this?

>>94699737
Viewership ratings, brainlet.

>>94699511
>>94699591

Haven't watched WTTW yet, but I heard it's basically Gravity Falls 2.0. Not really comparable to TLH.

>>94699712
It's also not Spongebob. Anything short of people literally jizzing on the screen and Nick will axe it.

>>94699421
>We got banished to /trash/ before the show even aired. We're the worst.
I was there, and that wasn't even our fault. The fandom sucks for way more reasons other than "being in /trash/".

>>94699737
>IMDB ratings
>Somehow correlating with Nielsen ratings and online views
What did he mean by this?

>>94699337
Does the book just have one single poem in it?

>>94699787
Lily is a baby ____

>>94699793
Maybe it's a long one.

>>94697126
>OKKO faggots want to beat them in the obnoxious department.
Fucking how?
OKKO fanbase is WoY tier , small and comfy

>>94699787
/trash/ is actually one of the better boards, /tlhg/ is just "unique".

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i just like girls

>>94697126
/sug/ exists. and last time i checked the show's fanbase wasn't so cancerous it needed a full board for itself.

>>94688014
Basically since the show has 10 different personalities of sister it will relate to anyone with one. I see my sister kind of in Lori.

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>Not posting best sister

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>>94700233
You're right, let me do that right now.

>>94700257
This picture is a good example of why the show succeeds. The characters make very cartoony, believable, wide-eyed and cute expressions. Even Lynn looks cute and she's one of the uglier ones

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>>94700257
>Lynn
>best sister

I just want my cute tittymonster Leni
Ever since some faggot writer and his scat fetish got a hold of Lori she isn't as good. At all. Zero good, in fact.

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>>94700233
All right, I'll post her. But only because you asked.

>>94700307
>scat fetish
W-what?

well. I won't call it the savior for daytime cartoons. but it's moderately better than the rest of the listings on air. the artstyle is for the most part original looking. it doesn't have any needless virtue signaling that we've seen in cartoons of late. the voices for each character feel right. and even though most personalities of the girls/sisters are clearly meant to all be based on commom archetypes and stereotypes of girls. they still offer some originality in their own ways.
the humor or comedy isn't as amazing as it could be. it has a lot of potential. but it's done a decent job of at least keeping people's attention to not be boring.
not to mention god tier 34 and waifu art of the characters adult ages. sfw fanart has been less "tumblry" than normal.
I'm not particularly too excited about the Mc. he's too much like those stupid wimpy kid books mc. in personality and visually infact. they throw some easter eggs in their shows too. example was the loss meme in the one girls' room.

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>>94700307
>cute tittymonster Leni
Lori has bigger tits than her.

>>94698313
>>94698360
>I've been here ALL summer!
don't post again for another year you newfags

Your average kids show these days is either a tryhard amalgamation of action and zaniness where ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN (Regular Show, SU, etc,) or a ridiculously obnoxious fame whoring scenario (like a kid becoming CEO of a fashion empire or going to a school exclusively for trying to make it in Hollywood.)

This is just a show about kids, albeit with strong personalities with typical cartoon exaggeration, but at the end of the day, they're just kids getting into relatable situations. It can be a bit predictable and cliche, but it's still entertaining to watch.

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>>94699737
This is like only watching movies based on their RT score.

>>94700257
Would Lynn let you hug her?

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>>94700379
>ridiculously obnoxious fame whoring scenario (like a kid becoming CEO of a fashion empire or going to a school exclusively for trying to make it in Hollywood.)
Such as? I want to watch these shows.

>>94700616
Probably one of Nick or Disney's live-action sit-coms.

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This whole show makes my heart swell.

>tiny background bonding moments
>Luna playing with Lily and balancing her on her feet; Luan playing with Lily in Picture Perfect, Lynn and Lily in In Tents Debate, etc.
>Lori holding onto Lana in the laughing shot of linc or swim, and then holding her on her lap in Picture Perfect; Lana sleeping with lori when she has nightmares
>all the times Lori and Leni are taking care of the baby
>all the little hugs and gestures of affection that just fly by if you're not looking for them
>the siblings hugging each other when the storm is coming
>Lisa likes the way Lincoln makes pb&j's for her
>Lucy actually smiles, snuggles up to her siblings, squees over girly stuff, and wears a pink flower in her hair for that Hawaiian outfit despite being the stereotypical goth

It's all the little things. I really hope the writers keep track of all these little interactions and details, because they make the show for me.

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>>94700665
All the little things.

>>94700665
the funny shit too. like Lucy's hair staying in place even when she's upside down in one of the episodes.
i also like it a lot when the creators pay attention to the little things.

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>>94700805

>>94700640
Oh. I was hoping for animated.

>>94699511
it looks like a hideous canadian cartoon.

>>94701083
how do you get banned from /trash/

>>94701341
Posting loli porn.

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>>94701083
i swear to god. you see anon this is why we needed to talk.

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>>94701383
I don't get it.

>>94700346
>i don't care about your shitty cartoon
>hur dur u summer
nigger you are the one that praise this garbage when episodes like the pool exist.

>>94700805
Linka is shit

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>>94701617
Your taste is shit

>>94701649
Virgin here
Do girls actually bleed this much?

>>94701468
hopefully you will one day and when you do maybe you won't get banned anymore.

>>94701739
yes anon, that's why girls wear tampons, so they don't die when they have their periods.

>>94701649
>Linkafag unironically masturbates to this

>>94700665
Love those little interactions.
You can tell the big sisters care a lot about the younger one's well being.
Lynn playing pirates with Lana, Lola and Lily made me dislike her a lot less.

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Hey /co/ how about that Leni, eh?

>>94698508
BoredArtist

>>94702193
>tfw just wanted a Leni gf
>tfw woman are actually disgusting vipers in real life

>>94702223
what if Leni was one in disguise?

>>94688014
The childhood craziness. I feel that this show is well received with those who themselves have done ridiculously funny stuff as kids.

I also believe that the show resonates with those who have siblings that they wanna strangle, but love to death.

>>94702433
Also, memes and /co/'s contrarian bullshit aside, the show is just charming.

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>>94700291
She is a gem.

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>>94703029

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>>94703029
>Taking screenshots of every one of these scenes and compiling it to one image

>>94703085
I knew it was missing something, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Thanks.

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Okay she had a nice change of clothes, can she be popular now?

>>94703222
I actually really like Luna. All her little rock references are actually really endearing.

>>94691876
For a bimbo, Leni has such small tits in canon.

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>>94703305
What a shame.

>>94699115
>Oedipus Rex
No, that's the story that the term "Oedipus complex" originally comes from.
The comic was a pun on that, "The Complex Adventures of Eddie Puss"

>>94688014
I really like the art style for this show but I avoid it all costs since the fanbase is filled with pedos.

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>>94704378

Anon

Every fan base is filled with pedos

>>94697013
Pretty much. Even if you disregard the noodle bodies, Lynn tans poorly and has a nose that looks like it got slammed by a bat. Plus she really needs to treat both her siblings and team better. Honestly? I'm predicting Lynn matures early, ditches sports for partying and drugs (the bad girl), then ends up burning out during her mid twenties and gets married. Probably after getting impregnated.

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>>94700899
>The Virgcoln.
>The Chadler.

>>94699395
>drumpftales
Bitch please.

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>the SJW house
Yes, slay queen, more interracial gay couples and forcing support characters to be bisexual, need to get AIDs bucks

Also to make sure to have the baby naked frequently so the studio can make money while having their adult pedophile retard viewers jerk off to the show, also include hints of incest in order to get the rest of the /r9k/ audience!

>>94699230
>Usually the main cast is about 2-9 guys and one or two girls. Always. And one is always a love interest.

Because "we've got to sell this cartoon in misogynist terrorist country X"

And now because /pol/ IRL.

Gee, what a funny similarity.

>>94688014
There's a terrible shortage of television shows that portray healthy, nuclear, white families... to say nothing of animated shows. Loud House and Bob's Burgers are the only examples that come to mind since KOTH ended

In an era where nontraditional families dominate, it's oddly refreshing to see traditional families in animation.

>>94688014
because you are PEDOPHILES

>>94688014
It makes me wish I had older sisters while growing up.

>>94707228
You dont want it. If you had it you would wish you had zero older sisters
t. anon with older sisters
Girls are fucking gross

>>94707245
Not him, but you're probably right. Although, I don't think that highly of my older brother, and I know some good brother-sister friends, so I'd take that chance.

>>94688165
>>94691452
>>94695889
>>94704378
>>94707164
>these retarded niggers
It's both sad and cute that you think 4chan faggots count as a demographic. The show is super-popular with it's intended audience: kids.

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>>94700233
Older Lisa is best Lisa.

>>94707888
I disagree. Speaking as someone who has dabbled in childhood education, most people who watch cartoons are twenty-thirty something millennials who grew up on Nick and CN. Kids spend more time watching YT LPs, E-celebs, generally anything online. Hell, there's even a HA movie getting produced for it's aged fanbase, there's no way in hell that's meant for children. You can rant and rave all you want, but LH is clearly a experimental harem cartoon for lonely manchildren.

It and Star are just the first of it's kind.

>>94707985
>HA movie
Literally what

>>94707985
>Kids spend more time watching YT LPs, E-celebs, generally anything online.
I can't speak for all kids, but I doubt my nephew has watched a single cartoon since he grew out of shit like Dora. All he does these days is watch Minecraft and Roblox LPs on YouTube with facecams of fags with shitty haircuts.

>>94707985
>>94708030
>Kids spend more time watching YT LPs, E-celebs, generally anything online
>All he does these days is watch Minecraft and Roblox LPs on YouTube with facecams of fags with shitty haircuts.

Can confirm. Roblox, Minecraft, unboxing videos, let's plays, musical.ly and whatever other app I'm not even aware of, Jake Paul and other stupid youtube vids, Undertale, stuff like that.

The one who's way into Roblox at least watched GF when it was airing and likes Bob's Burgers now, but actual TV cartoons are giving way to tablet and laptop entertainment. Prolly doesn't help that I showed her how to pirate shit, either.

>>94707985
Yeah, bullshit. If only because oldfags watch shit online and don't contribute to ratings. And no, this fucking cartoon is not for adults, there's 0 fucking lore and continuity. Lincoln learns the same fucking lesson about being a better, less selfish brother every fucking episode. I tried getting into it, I really did, but it makes Horse Show look like fucking Law and Order Special Victims Unit by how kid and only kid-oriented it is.

And I fucking doubt the movie will be a family movie as well, 100% it's going to be a kid film.

If Savino used to be into fun and naughty adult humor, he's burned it out of himself with a hot iron for the opportunity to have a cartoon show.

>>94708007
Hey Arnold

>>94708169
>pirate shit
I hope you either told her how to do it safely or you live in a country where it's safe to do, you irresponsible fuck.

>>94708213
>randomly spit out "HA" in a Loud House thread
>oh it's clearly Hey Arnold
How the FUCK can anyone surmise this? God I hate Gen Zers.

>>94707985
>Kids spend more time watching YT LPs, E-celebs, generally anything online.

Yep can also confirm. My two little brothers are literally on the tablets/phones/PC browsing internet memes or playing games. The only time they ever watch TV is when we put on a movie.

Most cartoon demographics are likely to be 20 something millennials like me who grew up in that last wave of TV watching culture.

>>94708231
Yeah, the constant abbreviation of everything kind of ticks me off too. I just got it that was 'Hey Arnold' because I've watched some of the recent Arnold threads on /co/.

>>94698567
>>94692423
Can't tell if being serous or you guys are waifufags.

>>94708206
Neckbeards, dweebs, weebs, and nerds like kid-shit as it allows them to escape from their pathetic adult lives. Hence why LH is popular.

>>94707888
oh no, pedos definitely exist outside of 4chan

>>94708263
My little cousin watches TV, but it's only Disney with its shitty reality shows.

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Is Clyde an essential character who progresses the plot and develops characters in a meaningful way or is he an affirmative action hire constantly lusting after Ms.Becky?

>>94694796

>three of the most popular cartoons in the last decade failed
>"B-but other cartoons are more popular now!"
>Only took one of them ending and the other two to be almost completely taken off their network's broadcasting schedule

It doesn't want to be anything but a silly little kids show (unlike Steven Universe, We Bare Bears and Harvey Beaks)

>>94688165
Fpbp

>>94709097
They had one episode addressing the Clyde problem that /tlhg/ complained about.

Also he's a good character that the fan memes about hating. I'm being unironic about him a good character.

Posting tlh should be an instaban, this autist wont stop shilling it and tlh threads always devolve to shitflinging with themselves. Just look at /trash/ they are making tons of general and spamming shit there

>>94708213
>Hey Arnold
Fuck. I thought you were talking about Home Alone.

>>94709369
Virtue signaling is a disease

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>>94710612
>Unironically mimicking a Canadian shitposter

>>94709286
Gravity Falls shit the bed toward the end, especially after the big Ford reveal. It went from a show about mysteries to the "Everyone Worships and Apologizes to Mabel Hour".

Adventure Time was always a false idol, and Steven Universe half-assed successor to it. Neither of them deserves to be even uttered in the same breathe as Gravity Falls despite its flaws, let alone A:TLA, Samurai Jack S1-4, or even Loud House.

>>94706991
this

>>94707985
>Lily is taller than her older sisters

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Loud House?

>>94706355
>conservative families beat the ever-loving shit out of their kids and enforce discipline that makes the army look like a hippie commune
>"That's perfectly in their right. It's just to keep the kids on the right track!"

>liberal parents let their kid character act
>"Those deviants! Surely their child will grow up into an AIDS-infested crack-whore!"

Xavier is better though

pedophiles

>>94688014
Lack of competition on their own network. I mean seriously, what have they got to compete against that is new?


Lack of competition on competitors network, Cartoon Network (oh Teen Titans Go, how we hate you). And lastly girls.

>>94688014
This is a 6/10 SoL cartoon. The fact that it's also the highest kids cartoon on TV signals that we are in a Dark Age of television animation. With a lot of shows that were long in decline getting cancelled, nothing new worth mentioning on Nick or Disney and a bunch of awful shows that need to be in the rejected pile coming to CN, no fucking wonder.