Atheist Daredevil

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>>94502355

>>94502355
That doesn't seem right to me.

>>94502355
what happened to Soule?

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>>94502365

>>94502366
Well, Marvel doesn't seem to think so!

>>94502387
Who knows? All I know is that they're purposely making their characters different from their classic iterations. It's not even a synergy case. MCU Strange has white temples and looks like a man in his 40s, current Strange has pitch black ahir and looks 30. Daredevil is now an atheist. Dunno what their endgame is.

The first page sounded like utter bullshit, but this page >>94502390 makes it sound like Soule's DD run is finally going somewhere, as long as he's talking about "I acted as I wasn't a believer anymore".. Maybe Mara was right after all?

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Because liberals hate Christianity. Not canon by the way. I don't give a shit if they try and say it is. He is Catholic and always will be.

>>94502355

Im pretty sure there's some shit in that book about that guy's job that covered pretty much exactly that logic

>>94502472
Eh, I doubt it. It's probably just Soule's way of "leaving a mark". He's not imaginative enough for anything else, so at the very least his run will be knownas the run where Matt became an atheist.

>>94502515
>headcanon
This is the best choice, really. Considering all the retcons, OOC shit and whatnot, just construct a version of the character you like and run with it. It's what I'm doing with Doom, Stark, Moon Knight and others.

>>94502515
Also to add to this. That shitty excuse is so moronic. Anyone who believes in God and isn't a moron knows that God is not there to hold your hand.

>>94502561
Is it headcanon really though? Did they really do that officially or is it a what if story? Kind of like how in Spider-Gwen he is a villain.

This is an alternate universe right?
Marvel can't be that stupid right?
Right?

>>94502593
No, it's part of the current book by Soule. He mentioned being an atheist in the first or second issue as well (the scans are from #16). For all intents and purposes, it's canon that Matt is now an atheist.

>>94502355
This isn't coming out of nowhere. Matt hasn't been portrayed as a devout Catholic since Karen's death. IIRC Bendis made mention of it briefly.

>>94502355
People believing that God is beholden to the same fucking insipid saturday morning cartoon sense of morality as anyone else in their eyes or that he is a cop or something will always be the most conpletely and utterly baffling thing to me. I mean it's not even like God perpretrated the shit the character is upset about here by any stretch of the imagination other than letting it happen(as is usually the case in these scenarios), it's like these people think nature or free will should not exist and are a blight instead of a blessing given to humanity by god. The fact that these people would literally rather have a cosmic dictator preventing anyone from ever doing anything mean is the most evil most fucking infuriating thing in the world to me. If you want to just write a 'crises of faith' type arc there's like a million better ways to do it than making your character basically a petulent child.

Yeah, that's not Daredevil.

>>94502632
Shut the fuck up Soule, no one likes your shitty retcon.

Soule made him an atheist because Soule is an atheist and can't get into the head of someone who has faith.

>>94502644
This I said this here>>94502585
I never blame God for anything wrong that happens. He gave us free will to live our lives. Matt would know this and this is just 2 obvious SJW fuck writers who hate Christianity shitting on a great character.

>>94502585
Exactly.

This line of thinking (which you see in a lot of these 'crises of faith' type stories) are always written by people who are thoughtlessly areligious. Absolute tripe

>>94502644
But why isn't God stopping Cancer anon?! Huh!? HUH?!

That's basically the whole argument of this, yeah. A shitty story, really.

>>94502681
Same as Aaron. He's done that to both Thor & Strange.

>>94502704
How so? I haven't bothered to read much of Aaron's stuff in a long time.

>>94502715
Thor became Unworthy because Fury said "What if Gorr was right?", Gorr being the guy who started killing Gods because they didn't intervene. So Thor now believes all Gods are useless, ignorant, unworthy, vile creatures, himself included. Plus constant flashbacks to Jane denying that Thor is a God and that the Gods he believes are merely fables.

His Strange run began with a scientist who hated magic and Gods, and went on a universal science jihad. Now all the magic's gone and Strange fights with axes, looks 30, can't eat normal food and has no faith in anything anymore.

>>94502390
>turns away from the church after recognizing true evil in mankind

Yeah really great characterization there. The church totally says evil doesn't exist and will never be perpetrated to you so long as you are righteous! It's not like the entire crux of religion is proving your stalwart faith in and adherence to the lord in defiance of earthly wants and challenges or anything

>>94502745
Wow Marvel just loves destroying thing these days.
This Daredevil thing legit is making my blood boil.He is my favorite Marvel hero and his Catholicism is what drew me to him.They shove Islam down your throat but continue to shun Christianity.

>>94502745
The Thor thing was infuriating considering gods are basically just a species, not really metaphysical. I mean i don't even think it has ever been said it was the place of Norse gods to be omnipotent and kind, Thor has saved the Earth and even the universe like dozens of times but yeah sure Gorr was right and he should have just needlessly murdered all gods just for not fulfilling the promises of stories parents told their children in the viking age of fantastic heroes from space.

That's like saying you should go around murdering everyone who hasn't donated to Doctors Without Borders or something.

>>94502787
Yup. But hey, there are the same guys who made Doom, the Dictator with a Germanic Village fetish be warned of Islamic Terrorist and go "wow man, rude and racist, shut the fuck up". They have no idea how to write anybody. He's a dictator with closed borders with a fetish for Medieval Europe for fuck's sake, he would be kebabing Muslims, not building Mosques!

>>94502801
Worst thing is, Thor doesn't even believe in any Gods. The Asgardians and the other Pantheonsbelieved in Gods higher than themselves. And now Thor considers them phony as well!

It all reads as a bad fan-fic...

>Daredevil loses his faith because of "why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?" e.g. the Problem of Evil
>after years of being a superhero and facing fucked-up shit
>an argument that looks incredibly persuasive to 7th graders the Church answered in the fucking 1100s
I don't know why but somehow this pisses me off more than all of Marvel's other recent shit put together

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>>94502355
>bad shit happens therefor no God

>>94502745
>So Thor now believes all Gods are useless, ignorant, unworthy, vile creatures, himself included

Well it's not like he's wrong about that.

>>94502585

>Anyone who believes in God and isn't a moron knows that God is not there to hold your hand.

Is that why even the intelligent Christians pray for God to change His plan and do them favors and shit?

>>94502869
Since Frank Miller the entire point of Daredevil is that awful shit keeps happening to him left and right. Of course he would lose faith or at the very least be highly skeptic or even resentful of the idea of a benevolent God that Christianity pushes.

>>94502938
Miller also came up with the idea that someone with Daredevil's morality would have to be Catholic. Artistic vision.

>>94502938
>Being this retarded

Faith was the only thing keeping him from AN HEROING himself because all the bad shit that happens to him. The entire POINT of Christianity is that life sucks but there's better waiting for you

>>94502869

If God has the power to stop bad things from happening, and bad things continue to happen regardless of that supposed power, we can infer one of two things:

1.) God hates us and wants us to suffer.
2.) There is no God.

If we thank God for the good things in our lives, we must blame Him for the bad as well. A winning lottery ticket is no more or less an act of God than breast cancer.

>>94502938
All the rough shit in his life happens due to human will. His dad decided to step into a fight that would kill him, He decided to fight crime, his enemies decided to kill the ones he love. God has nothing to do with his suffering, if anything he'd be thankful for god he somehow isnt a paralyzed mess.

>>94502962
>1.) God hates us and wants us to suffer.
Suffering doesn't necessarily come from hate. Hardship is a necessity of life.

>>94502938
That's not how everybody responds to hardship or tragedy, you dipshit. You honestly think Christianity would have lasted this long if it had no answer to injustices on Earth? Fucking Hell, I can't even remember ever hearing someone learned in Christianity say that everything is fair and good on Earth. That's not even the doctrine anyway.

>>94502958
>Faith was the only thing keeping him from AN HEROING himself

Not really. Matt's faith has been a device to primarily explore the paradoxical of being a lawyer who defends the law during the day but spends his nights beating the shit out of criminals, since it feeds his Catholic guilt, which is also tied to his complex hero worship aimed at his father, who drunkenly beat Matt up for getting into fights rather than focusing on his studies. Matt might occasionally find hope in faith but it's his human contacts that keep him from going off the deep end, since deep down he's a really angry man.

>>94502982

>Suffering doesn't necessarily come from hate.

On the other hand, only someone who truly hates humanity would ever devise a fate as soul-crushing as cancer. "Hey, instead of giving you a quick and painless death, I'm going to give you a disease that will eat away at your body and turn you into a shell of the person you once were! Enjoy peeing into a bedpan while you're spending your last few weeks in a hospital, loser!"

>>94502982
And it's something that people do to each other. For other purposes deism exists.

>>94502986

Heaven's a great long con concept to sucker people into believing it'll be better after they die.

>>94502982
And if we take the idea of God viewing us as his children, theres the whole 'hardship/misery builds character' Parents bring up, but upscaled to a far larger level due to the scale God is working at.

>>94502962

3) He wants us to grow and endure and learn from these mistakes

4) It gives us free will.

>>94502938
There's an entire book about suffering happening to Christians despite the existence of God.

>>94503031
>He wants us to grow and endure and learn from these mistakes

Yeah, we ain't doing that well on that.

>>94503031

>3.)

Then He sucks at his job.

>4.)

If God exists and has a plan for all his creations, how can any of us truly have free will?

>>94503037

And I'm sure that will comfort a man whose entirely life has been one tragedy after another, where he daily witnesses evil triumphing over good and there being no justice for people.

>>94503052
Same way we can have plans involving other people who retain their free will.

>>94502355
I could tolerate athiest Tont Stark.
I begrudgingly accepted athiest Reed Richards.
But you don't make mat fucking murdock athiest.

>>94503084

He can just find faith again. This is no different from him abandoning his entire life and becoming a hobo for the fifteenth time.

>>94502962
He loves us so much that he finds it obscene to change who and what we are. To stop evil is to strip away what makes you, -you-.

>>94503084
It would still be Family Guy atheism which means atheism knowing that souls and higher powers exist.
Non-Christian more likely.

>>94503059
Are you describing Matt Murdock, or Job, anon?

Because no one at Marvel knows how to write a character that doesn't have 100% of their opinions and viewpoints.

>>94502982
suffering =/= hardship.

>>94503101

>He loves us so much that he finds it obscene to change who and what we are.

He allows us to get diseases like cancer and the black plague, allows us to suffer weeks, months, years of debilitating pain and the constant degradation of both our physical and mental selves, because He loves us? That is a hell of a way to prove it.

Why do christians even come to this fucking site? You do realize that just by association you're already going straight to hell, right?

>>94502355
Political correctness causes identity politics which builds up stereotypes such as every Christian is white or a republican, every Muslim is brown, every atheist is a liberal, and so on. Marvels also a partisan club so they pick and choose what they think is left or right.

>>94503212

It's tough love. You know, like when he flooded the world.

>>94503215
/pol/ immigrants

They also made Parker atheist did they not?

>>94503234

"I love you, so I'll kill you" is something that an abusive husband would say, holy shit.

>>94503215

Just imagine how triggered christian fags would be if Preacher came out today.

>>94503239
I'm okay with Peter Parker being one but Dare Devil come on now that's just agenda shit.

>>94502390
You know, it has its flaws in the writing, but at least that splash has a lot of nice details and symbolism in in that works. Simple stuff like his dad and the nun being so close, Widow bring there, etc. etc., but it's good.

>>94503259

If I could see someone lose faith, it would be Murdock. Even ol' Parker luck ain't nothing compared to Murdock's Law:
>Can this get any worse?
>Sure it can.

More and more comics are establishing characters into atheists and it's fucking obnoxious. The problem of evil never sways a person's faith, let alone a Catholic. THE ENTIRE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOVE EVEN IN SUFFERING. Have they never heard of martyrdom?
Why can't liberals into theology?

>>94503259
Yeah, I get what you mean since Parker rarely ever said things about God but then he literally sold his marriage to the devil.

>>94503160
>Book of Job
Ah, the one where God and his buddy Satan torture a guy because of a fucking bet. Ancient Jewish fairytales are pretty hardcore.

>>94503031
One does not learn, nor gain free will by dying from breast cancer.

>>94503285
>THE ENTIRE POINT OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOVE EVEN IN SUFFERING.

And people wonder why folks don't give a shit about going to church on Sunday anymore.

>>94503215
>Implying Hell exists in the Bible

Medieval fairy tales detected. You either get stuck in Sheol regardless of your wickedness, or believe in Jesus and get saved. The Devil is dropped into a fiery pit in his dragon form after the end.

>>94503284
Yeah but not permanent.

>retards think Catholicism and Christianity are the same

It's not like he's going "DAE think god sux? XD" like Rick and Morty or some shit. He just lost his faith, and it's easy to argue that he would after everything he's seen. Next writer will have a bit where Matt re-finds his faith and it'll be very dramatic and cool, so chill the fuck out.

>>94503353

Only because you occasionally you have to let him climb up from the bottom of the well so that he can fall down again.

>>94503298
You have freewill by default. That's not something gained or learned.
Also Telomeres are a bitch.
>>94503327
I was generalizing, anon. It's deeper than that otherwise the Summa Theologica wouldn't be so fucking long.

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>>94503289

Funny thing is, for all his supposed evilness, Satan only ever directly killed a handful of people -- and the shit with Job was basically a hit sanctioned by God, so Satan was arguably acting as God's Right Hand at that time.

God killed millions of people. At best, Satan killed a couple dozen or so, and most of them were done at the behest of God. And yet we're supposed to believe Satan is truly evil and God loves us?

>>94503385
People fear God that's why you hear them call themselves God fearing people. So him being an asshole is reasonable.

>>94503450

Why are people supposed to fear Satan, then? Satan seems like a pretty chill motherfucker compared to the Almighty. I don't see Satan going around and slaughtering entire countries because someone ate a shellfish or some shit.

>>94503479
God once ruined a man's life for a bet he made with the Devil.

I found it extremely funny. You can be a Christian and appreciate the dark humor of the situation.

>>94503331
have you tried reading the bible

>>94503385
Death is only a minute fraction of life eternal. The damnation the Devil brings is far worse than a mortal death, if you believe in the eternal soul.

>>94503499

>God has Satan ruin a man's life to settle a bet

If two people ruined your life to settle a bet, would you appreciate the "dark humour" of the situation?

>>94503545
No.
But those are just stories.

>becomes an atheist
>takes on an illegal immigrant sidekick
Blue pills, not even one

Do people not realize Job is a parable? It never actually happened, its a lesson in moral fortitude in the face of seemingly insurmountable and seemingly arbitrary hardship

>>94503523

Why is Satan perceived as "evil" when his worst possible act -- murder -- was a hit job ordained by God? What makes Satan such a horrible person that we must fear him as if he is the greater evil than the deity who can wipe out humanity without so much as giving a damn?

>>94503564

>Do people not realize Job is a parable?

Congratulations, you've never met a person who thinks the Bible is an actual historical document.

May you never be burdened with doing so.

>>94503575
I don't think you've actually read the bible or the book of Job, and you're just going off memes

>>94503589
Even in the context of the bible its a parable, its very distinct from the purportedly historical sections of the Old Testament.

>>94502515
>liberals hate Christianity

Laughing at you.

>>94503615

Doesn't answer my question. Why is Satan perceived as evil when God killed far, far more people and rained down more hellfire and brimstone upon humanity than Satan ever did?

>>94503564
It does a better job teaching that if God exists, he's a dick.

>>94503479
There not suppose to fear Satan but beware of his tricks.

>>94503656
I did answer your question, in the context of the immortal soul a mortal death is not as devastating as eternal damnation.

>>94503668

Like getting Eve to eat the apple? Ooooh, he gave her sentience and free will. I thought that was supposed to be celebrated, not feared.

>>94503678

Why is being sent to Satan seen as eternal damnation when the alternative is spending eternity in Heaven with an omnicidal deity?

I'm an agnostic atheist but some of these atheist suck at debating religion.

>>94503678
Right, "eternal damnation" probably tops genocide as far as this God character's atrocities go.

>>94503656
Nigga, you are really dumb. In the context of an immortal soul and existence, death is meanless compared to the soul. So yeah, losing your soul is something much worse compared to dying.

Hell, even things like Hellboy exemplify it easily.

>>94503694
Gave man the feeling of pain and shame

>>94503694
>Why is being sent to Satan seen as eternal damnation when the alternative is spending eternity in Heaven with an omnicidal deity?
Because one is going to keep your suffering going while the other has brought your suffering to an end. The reward of heaven is the reward of rest, free from the toil and strife of physical existence.

The Devil's concern is to increase suffering, not death.

>>94503742
You can't be warned of the consequences and then plead for mercy after committing a crime.

>>94503758

We can't have free will without pain and shame? Seems like an oversight on God's part.

>>94503761

>one is going to keep your suffering going

Technically, God is to blame for that, too. He is the one who sends you to Hell. Satan is just there to do the dirty work after God finishes kicking people into the eternal pit of suffering.

>>94502355
nanana this is wrong, matt's Catholicism is the centre of his character and why he does what he does, it come from his father

>>94503786
Where it say the apple gave free will?

>>94503786
The rules God laid down were designed to minimize the suffering we force others to endure by our actions. By breaking the covenant with God we are increasing the burden of our fellow people through selfish and profane action. People who willfully stamp over others and make this life more difficult for them through selfish misdeed, and suffer no mortal consequence, have earned divine retribution.

>>94503327
You're right, people don't give a shit anymore in the west probably because they aren't suffering like the old days. Christianity is fast growing in Africa and Asia.
And an example I've always found interesting is in Russia, where atheist encouragement programs completely fell through under Stalin and many churches were reopened during WW2.
No atheists in foxholes, as they say.

>>94503809

Adam and Eve obeyed God up until Satan lured Eve into eating the apple. They could not have had free will if they obeyed God at all times.

>>94503828

>divine retribution

...still not seeing how this makes Satan the bad guy when God is the one who kicks people into the pit for not living EXACTLY like he said. Also: If God is omnipotent, how can He be mad at us for not living according to His plan? He knows we're going to fuck up, He knows how our lives end, and He still chooses to "punish" us for things He could easily prevent. What kind of "loving" deity does that?

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>>94502355
>something bad happened and because this bad thing happened there can no longer be a god
I'm not a big believer myself but this is the laziest shit ever.

>>94503761
There are a number of conflicting warnings, "believe in this god", "don't believe in that god", "don't eat pork", "eat pork to celebrate your god", "die in battle", "don't hurt a fly", "make idols", "don't make idols", etc.

It's impossible to heed them all and no way of knowing which, if any, are correct, but you're telling me that if I get it wrong and your god is the true one, he will torture me for all of eternity? I find it hard to believe that a being so powerful would be so petty, sadistic and unfathomably cruel.

>>94503853
>Also: If God is omnipotent, how can He be mad at us for not living according to His plan? He knows we're going to fuck up, He knows how our lives end, and He still chooses to "punish" us for things He could easily prevent.
Free will. He knows what's likely to happen based on knowing us in our heart, but there is always the choice not to do something, and the choice to repent. You are underselling the importance of the Christian act of repentance. Sin is unavoidable, freely and delightfully committing sin is not.

You are making the Devil out to be more than he is. He isn't the antithesis of God, or God's 'hitman', not in Christian theology or the theology of any Abrahamic faith. He defied God but still serves a purpose in God's plan.

>>94503889
Do you really need someone to hold your hand and explain the sociological, historical, and moral reasons for the ten commandments and the commandments of Leviticus?

I'm off to bed soon, I don't have the energy to explain it all to you, but I suggest you read the bible and decent historical scholarship alongside it, if you can't figure it out yourself.

Good night.

>>94503841
I thought the west was on the brink of utter collapse and everyone is gearing up to either fight it out or run to the hills.

>>94503894

>He knows what's likely to happen based on knowing us in our heart

God is supposedly omnipotent. That means He can look directly at any point in our life and see how we get it either "right" or "wrong". If God is that powerful, there is no "likely" -- He knows exactly what we will do. And if He has this omnipotence, He has the power to rewrite our lives and make us do things "right" or "wrong". Free will would be an illusion because God could control us regardless of whether we are aware of His control.

>>94503809
Only thing he asked was not to eat the apple we live in a society with government, laws, taxes, and people wanting to increase them don't suggest to me that a thing like eating an apple gave us free will when supposedly in the beginning of time all we had to do was not eat a fucking apple.

>>94503853
>>94503946
I meant you not myself lol

>>94503934
>Free will would be an illusion

Precisely. He wants us to have free will. That's an incredibly important part of it. It seems paradoxical, but once you realize that it kind of falls into place.

I never thought of it this way before, but it's like the classic Liberty-Security argument, taken extremely towards Liberty. That's what it is.

>>94503946

Free will means being able to make decisions on your own, regardless of what the rules or the authorities say. Adam and Eve chose to obey authority -- God -- by following the "one rule". Eve's decision to eat the apple was a true act of free will: She was given a choice to disobey authority and made the decision on her own. Satan tempted her, yes, but it was still ultimately her decision. Ergo, Satan gave humanity free will.

>>94503979

>He wants us to have free will.

But He is omnipotent. He could rewrite our entire lives with a thought. How can we truly have "free will" if our entire lives might be wholly manipulated by a deity whose power transcends every known limitation of time and space?

>>94504000
He doesn't interfere and lets things happen even the bad things.That is why people get discarded to hell he set rules you don't follow them you get a time out in the corner while being stabbed for eternity.

>>94504000
>How can we truly have "free will" if our entire lives might be wholly manipulated by a deity whose power transcends every known limitation of time and space?

Because he doesn't.

That's the thing, anon. He watches. Not much point in making us if he's basically just playing on his own, that's not really truly bringing something into existence. "Might be" isn't the same as "is currently doing." We have free will, and that's preserved by God not doing that. He could, but he doesn't, because the whole free will thing was important to Him in our creation.

>>94503930
>chooses to disregard some of God's laws because he thinks they don't count
>gets tortured for all of eternity as punishment
You can't be warned of the consequences and then plead for mercy after committing a crime.

>>94504049

>He doesn't interfere

>>94504050

>Because he doesn't

Quick question: How do you know, with the certainty of God, that God does not interfere with someone's life?

ITT: Casuals who dont read comics bitch about Daredevil not believing in God when he hasn't in years

>>94504000
God testing free will he created by giving them an obstacle she had free will to begin with or else she would of never ate the apple.

>>94504066
We've had it from the begining anon.

>>94504066
>How do you know, with the certainty of God, that God does not interfere with someone's life?

Okay, if we're taking the Bible as the word of God given through man and believing in that particular version of God, then the book counts, right? And the book explains the importance of free will and how it is instrumental in the inception of the human race. It is explained that we are allowed to do evil and eat the apple and the like because he won't, and generally doesn't, because that isn't his game and the whole point is to let us be. It doesn't make sense from a human standpoint, where most of us given omnipotence would go "Well, time to fix everything" and fuck around or whatever, but it's just kind of an assumption.

>tl;dr: Because you kind of take God at his word on in, and it wouldn't matter if it wasn't true anyways because you don't have free will then

>>94503215
God sends us to help the outcasts and scum. Jesus loved even the tax collector and the whore.

>>94504109

>Okay, if we're taking the Bible as the word of God given through man and believing in that particular version of God, then the book counts, right?

God is infallible. Man is not. If the Bible is the word of God as written by Man, how can we know that Man didn't screw it the fuck up? And how do we know that God, omnipotent omnicidal life-ruining asshole that He is, didn't intentionally screw with Man about the Bible's wording just to be a dick?

>>94502467
>Dunno what their endgame is.

Trolling aside, >>94502515 is completely correct. Marvel has very clearly, very vocally selected a specific fanbase to cater to. It takes absolutely no ability no problem solving skills to understand that their target audience largely dislikes Catholicism. Even the black lives matter crowd, when Christian, are almost never Catholic. Catholicism is a religion for FUCKING WHITE MEN, plain and simple, so out the door it goes.

>>94502355
So when Elektra died, Kingpin blew up his house, the Hand massacred a buttload of people, and a million other things happened those weren't enough?

>>94504177
>Catholicism is a religion for FUCKING WHITE MEN
well that's just wrong. Do you realize how many catholics are hispanic/latin/whatever. It is the religion of people who speak spanish basically.

>>94503646
Disprove his statement. Name three socially relevant liberals in real life who are also devout Christians.

Fucking troll faggot.

FUCK WHY DO THEY HAVE TO KEEP DOING THIS SHIT

WHY DO THEY HAVE TO KEEP PUTTING THESE SHITTY FUCKING WRITERS ON BOOKS WHO END UP RUINING CHARACTERS, COMPLETELY REVERSING THEIR PERSONALITIES AND MOTIVATIONS, OR JUST STRAIGHT UP WRITING THEM AS THE MOST GENERIC, BLAND BULLSHIT

I'M SO SICK OF MODERN MARVEL

>>94504177
>or FUCKING WHITE MEN
I'll give you Irish but Hispanics of all sorts are Catholic. I myself am of Mexican and Irish ancestry. That's double the Catholicism for me.

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>>94504197
Sorry, sempai, the media tells me that they're white males, too.

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>>94502355
>>94502365
>>94502390
>tfw cannot unhear charlie cox voice

DD s3 when?

>>94504195

Or, it's, you know, the combination of it all.

>>94504299
Except, you know, it isn't written as such.

>>94504202

Stephen Colbert is a devout Catholic.

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>>94504207
The worse part is is that Soule is actually talented but he let hi sown beliefs fuck up this character. At least the MCU keeps him Catholic. That scene where he reluctantly tells Frank his methods might sometimes be the answer and then doing the sign of the cross on his chest as if asking for forgiveness for saying it was amazing.

>>94504311
that only one

>>94502928
Actually Christians are told not to pray for favors and instead pray for things like God's guidance or the strength to see His will through. Anyone who asks for favors from God or does a tit for tat kinda situation is praying wrong according to Christianity, or at least Catholicism.

Fun fact, Roman religions actually encouraged asking for favors and making deals with the Gods, the exact opposite of how Christians are supposed to do it.

>>94502585
>Also to add to this. That shitty excuse is so moronic. Anyone who believes in God and isn't a moron knows that God is not there to hold your hand.
Except we are talking about the Marvel universe, where there are other gods that would hold your hand. Why would you pick a god that wouldn't help you instead of superior alternatives?

>>94502355
I was done with marvel after vision ended (literally their last book i was interested in) but now i'm extra done, this is exactly what i never wanted them to do, this is slott tier, this is OMD tier, first they ruined spidey, now they ruined my second favourite hero, fuck marvel for real

>>94503385
"And yet we're supposed to believe Satan is truly evil and God loves us?"

When people forget that Satan entire goal is to tempt people to sin, and tempting to be further away from God ultimately making them going to hell where you are tortured for eternity.

>>94502355
There was nothing indicating Matt stopped believing in God after Karen died. Until now. This is stupid.

>>94502355
>But why?
who owns the comic industry?

>For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these,

>>94504155
At this point, your going by what ifs. What if God has other gods and don't like to mention them, what if he has a dog name truffles, what if he like almond milks, etc. When you go by what ifs, then you made the entire conversation pointless and reach no conclusion. We are going about this prescribed holy book that was approved by God to teach and guide people.

>>94504618
nobody goes to hell when they die. its not said once in the bible. hell being a place of eternal punishment for sinners is something people just made up in the middle ages while speculating on just what weird place Paul visited that instantly convince him Christianity was right. every priest who uses the myth of Hell to try and coerce people into obedience towards God is themself corrupting God's word.

Years ago nobody would've cared and everyone would've accepted that crisis of faith can be a legit plot point but now it's le leftist conspiracy to oppress poor christfags.

>>94502962
>>94502962
You're operating on the unstated premise that (if God exists) then the existence of evil (which you need God or an objective moral force to define anyway) can ONLY mean God hates us and wants us to suffer. Obviously, there could be plenty of other reasons for God to allow for evil to continue in the sense we name it evil, as others have pointed out. We may not understand some of those reasons, as even OP's images hint at ("so alien"). The guy who originally formulated the argument you're referencing did it a lot tighter and it still is a false dichotomy.

>>94504753
Fuck off you can literally do this for any character an i wouldn't care, but this is fucking daredevil, This is like if suddendly frank gave up his crusade or spidey went back to be a tv star

>>94502355
>Catholics
>actually believing in god and not the Church

pick one

>>94504699
>not said once in the bible

You have to actually read in context. Jesus references hell a lot as a separation from God, comparing it to Gehenna. They knew what he was talking about; no one he spoke to believed that they would be cast into the desert for their sins upon death.

>>94504814
>Jesus references hell a lot as a separation from God
so it's "you'll either have a good life or a shit life"

>>94504000
God still gave them a choice (if Genesis isn't just allegory). Not a great alternative, but still a choice. There is no true life or autonomy or love without choice, even if the alternative is separation and pain. Without choice, you are a slave, a robot, or nonexistent.

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>>94502472
100% of the time I am ALWAYS possibly, maybe sort-of-right in a roundabout way.

Also he's Catholic again so all is well.

Dear Lord, I can't necessarily fault the idea of having a crisis of faith surrounding the death of a loved one, but this is Matt Murdock we're talking about here. Seems like his knowledge of the faith and scripture is going to be a cut above an average joe, this whole 'question of evil' business should've been elementary school stuff by now.

He's a largely pro-bono lawer in one of the most destitute parts of his city, and already had to deal with the death of his father. Implicitly, he retained his faith through all of it. Was it worth the liberal brownie points to arbitrarily gouge out the heart and soul of this character? Who's really going to say that they're glad to see Daredevil lose faith in God, aside from the kind of people who don't really believe in heroes in the first place?

>>94504876
The only thing that matters is selling comics, so we'll see how successful it is in doing that.

>>94503889
So if God isn't real, who defines pettiness? What is sadistic? What is cruel? The answers to what to follow and what not to follow are out there--you have to honestly search though. Most bibles today even tell you who wrote which books, why they did, where they originated, and how they are or aren't relevant today. Start with the New Testament as that's well-attested. Life isn't easy; good people choose goodness and, in effect, God. It really isn't even about following laws to avoid hell or gain heaven.

>>94504177
Imagine having a victim complex this big.

>>94504202
If they have to be socially relevant then I think you'd have a pretty hard time listing devout conservatives as well bud.

Protip: if they were actually devout they wouldn't be socially relevant

>>94503742
Is justice an atrocity? If a being creates a universe, gives its inhabitants a choice between a loving relationship and committing evil acts, and they choose evil acts, that being probably is in a better place to decide on whether or not the evil actors should suffer for their crimes, regardless of our human notions.

>>94504177
THE Mayority of the South american people are catholic, and they ain´t white

>>94502355
>*tips fedora* unironically
Jesus Christ, what a fucking hack

>>94504892
That attitude doesn't produce good comics, let alone ones that bring more people into the demographic.

Robbing a character of one of his core motivations/themes won't do it either. It's not so much changing a character, which isn't a bad idea (naturally), but hollowing one out for the sake of 'doing something different'. This is like if Superman all of a sudden didn't care about saving people, and just wanted free publicity.

>>94503499
>Bet: risk something, usually a sum of money, against someone else's on the basis of the outcome of a future event, such as the result of a race or game.

God had nothing to risk here and wouldn't really gain anything in this bet, since he knew where it was going. All God did was remove his protection from Job and allowed Satan to hurt him. While many people and you on this thread thinks God allowing such a thing is bad, he achieved many things here. He taught Job, his friends, wife, and many Christians who reads this story that's it's not a result of sin we experience suffering, and we maybe tested or to learn to endure these challenges we experiences with God, as it help Job understand God better and made his character even better. And that even our suffering has a purpose that we can believe is being used for good, as with Job. And even if we suffer, we'll be blessed by God by keep enduring and following his word.

>>94503081
But we're not God.

>>94504458
>Actually Christians are told not to pray for favors and instead pray for things like God's guidance or the strength to see His will through.
tomato potato

>>94504898
>So if God isn't real, who defines pettiness? What is sadistic? What is cruel?
The answer is the same as if he is real: Man defines those concepts.

>>94503742

Isn't it debated within the religion as to whether Hell is actually -eternal- punishment?

>>94504814
he was talking about how living while separated from god is like being cast into the desert, compared to the jubilation that comes from being one with god

>>94504959
Yes, but alas, what can you do? The industry has tried everything except writing good comics. They simply MUST do this shocking crap to keep people engaged at this point

>>94505199
Are you even reading Daredevil atm?

>>94502355

How the hell do you throw a solid bar through someone?

Bullseye's ability has never made sense. Being super-accurate is simple, but how does he kill people with things you shouldn't be able to kill people with?

He doesn't have super-strength.

>>94504928
For a punishment to be just, it must be proportionate to the crime. Flaying a child alive for stealing from the cookie jar for example is not just, because the punishment is so far out of proportion to the crime. It doesn't matter if it's the child's father doing it. Being flayed alive, no matter how horrible, is however still a finite punishment. It could conceivably be proportionate punishment for some crimes. Eternal damnation on the other hand, is an infinite punishment and is thus an infinitely more disproportionate punishment than the child-flaying we mentioned earlier for any finite crime. It is not justice, but boundless cruelty.

>>94504202
Joe Biden. Nancy Pelosi. Andrew Cuomo.

>>94502390

I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going.

I just think it is weird how marvel is pushing muslims as diversity and wants the idea that a character is muslim to be some sort of selling point and a "take that" to the "regressive crowd" while basically working to eliminate-- not just christians but also believers.

If Marvel wants a world that is like the world outside your window (NYC/Manhattan window) they should recognize that most people will be at least spiritual or theistic and most of that subset will be some form of Christian.

Just an observation.

>>94505131
There are all kinds of people who believe all kinds of things and still call themselves christian.

>>94504928

But he created them knowing they would commit evil acts.

>>94504227
That's because "hispanic" is not officially recognized as a race in US.

>>94504792
They're doing it specifically with DD because it has story related gravitas, you fucking idiot. A devout Catholic having a crisis of faith and turning away from believing in God has way more impact as a story, unlike if Ant-Man renounced God, since religion has never been part of that character's gimmick. And it's not like DD can't start to believe again after tipping his horn rimmed fedora for couple of years. Religion is part of Daredevil, sure, but it's not integral part of it, like his guilt and adoration of his father is. You can still have Daredevil be Daredevil even if he's turning atheist.

It can be an interesting new direction.

>>94504876
He's a district attorney now.

>>94502869
The argument of evil is not an argument against a god.

It's an argument against an omni-benevolent, , omni-powerful, omni-present god.

It doesn't mean there is no god. It just means that if there is one, he's a dick.

>>94502982
because a 1 year old child being raped "builds character"

>>94502760
Nigga you're taking a fictional capeshit comic too seriously

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>>94502390
I like it.

Matt is having a test of faith. Nothing to be upset about.

>>94505800
You know as much as I do that comment wasn't meant for babies at all. Now for why God allow this, there's no way of really knowing, he might use this incident for to bring good is some way or something else.

>>94503215
That's not how it works

>>94502355
So is atheist DD the new status quo or is it just a crisis of faith he will get over?

>>94505962
It's been the status quo since Kevin Smith's run but Soule's the one going full "fuck the concept of God" over it.

>>94503257
in what way is that comparable to changing Matt Murdock into an atheist?

>>94503238
>thinking that most people from pol/ are catholics

>>94502355
Men have wrestled with the Epicurean paradox for thousands of years, trying and failing to logically reconcile the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent entity in a world where there is also evil. Matt Murdock would not be the first person to waver in his faith faced with the problem of evil and he will not be the last. Will he find some way to reconcile the evil he sees in the world with the existence of his God and regain his faith? Who knows.

>>94502962
you missed the third option
3) each of us are God, who is playing hide and seek with himself for his own amusement. when the universe ends we will again be God, as though he had awoken from a dream, and having a dream where one version of yourself causes suffering to another version of yourself doesn't invalidate your love for yourself

>>94506179
Yeah bud. That sounds pretty blasphemous.

>>94506127
>rying and failing to logically reconcile the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent entity in a world where there is also evil.

It already been logically solved and explained in the scriptures.

>>94506190
its just pantheism

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>>94502683
hahhah "free will"

>>94506197
Nope.

Oh neat, a religious debate on /co/ ... surely this will be enlightening.

>>94502355
He's not even a real atheist. This shit is "Hollywood atheist", where you pretty much believe in God, but you're just grrr mad at him so you "stop believing". Shit doesn't work that way IRL.

>>94506332
thats antitheism

>>94504294
cox nailed it.

>>94505922
That's exactly how it works. You're right down in the filth with the rest of us, so either get off your high horse or go to some christian, parental forum where you belong.

>>94506332
Nail on the head...When you're always saying "fuck you god, you don't exist, god...please god why" you just have to eventually accept that you do believe in him. I've been there before.

But I know MM continued to be a catholic after Elektras death, so this does seem like bad writing at the very least.

>>94502962
I prefer the explanation that we are none to judge God's decisions because we lack the foresight He has. After all, He is an infinite being who exists in the past, the present and the future simultaneously.

>>94506281
Let's go through it.

>Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
He can on occasion and have done so in the scriptures and still to this day.
>Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
He is able, as I said and don't stop all evil. Cause that will involve breaking free will, and God uses evil to bring about good, to give trials to make people stronger, and even then, this pain is short compared to the everlasting happiness in heaven.
>Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Again free will, God wants us to choose between him and evil. If evil didn't exist, they would only be good and we'll be just robots at that point.
See, logically took down this paradox, which is pretty much answered in the book of Job really.

>>94506483
>and still to this day

You're one of those guys that leaves chick tracts on the toilet seats of public restrooms, aren't you?

>>94506483
Look man, you're not going to convert someone on a taiwanese doll collecting website. Neither one of you will budge.

A certain amount of questioning his belief isn't really out of line, considering how much DD gets shat upon now is it?

>>94502953
Well, he's an irish dude who hangs around churches and dresses like the devil. Being a christfag with serious issues isn't exactly a stretch.

>>94506543
>You're one of those guys that leaves chick tracts on the toilet seats of public restrooms, aren't you?

No and a weird accusation really. I mean there were so many situations in my life where God clearly protected me from harm or evil. And it's clearly written in the book of doing these things. I don't know what's weird about saying God still prevent some evil and protect people.

>>94506633
I'm sorry, I take that back. Judging by your comments you probably WRITE chick tracts.

>>94506483
>and God uses evil to bring about good

What good does raping small kids bring? For real. Especially those done under HIS house? And does it really make people stronger, because most victims never recover from abuse, they in fact are far more susceptible to further abuse later in life, if they don't become abusers themselves, bringing more violence and rape to the world. And what good does happiness in Heaven after death bring to you if you're not baptized Christian and thus cannot get into Heaven in the first place?

>>94506633
>don't know what's weird about saying God still prevent some evil and protect people.

Funny how it's always God when good things happen to you, and free will and mysterious ways of God and his plan when bad shit happens.

>>94506666
>What good does raping small kids bring?

I do not know the answer to that. All I know is that God is more knowledgeable and wiser then me to do such a thing. Many times in my life I ask what good does these brings, but later I learn how important my suffering was and allowed me to grow. Again, I do not know all the detail but I have faith God will put our suffering to use.
>What good is the blessing of heaven when your not Christian

I mention that part for Christians only, but the others examples apply to all.

>>94503853
If they always followed God's word, then how did they choose to eat the apple? That sounds pretty free will to me.

>>94503575
>>94503656
Satan's purpose is not to KILL PEOPLE. His endgame is to bring everyone to suffer with him in hell. Hell is not his personal palace, it's his eternal prison. He is not omnipotent neither omniscient, he don't know if a person will go to hell or heaven if he just kill them. He COULD kill people? Sure, but his goal is to drive people away from God, not to end one's life. And by the way you guys sound, he's doing his job just fine.

>>94503786
God don't send anyone to hell, you go to hell by yourself.

>>94506441
this right here

>>94506483
>See, logically took down this paradox
No, you didn't.

The "free will" counter-argument comes apart when you take into account "natural evils", suffering not caused by the exertion of free will. If my legs get crushed in a rock-slide and I lie there in agony for days until I die, free will is not an issue. An omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent god would have prevented that.

The "using evil to bring about good" argument and the related "minor suffering compared to the pleasures of heaven" arguments fall apart when you take into account that an omnipotent and omniscient being could have brought about said good without resorting to the evil.

>>94506707
>and free will and mysterious ways of God and his plan when bad shit happens.

The cause of my suffering are from multiple things, natural consequences of my own sin, a trail from God to teach me something valuable in my life and to endure, or something else.

>>94506858
>All I know is that God is more knowledgeable and wiser then me to do such a thing.
You don't actually know that.

>>94506914
In the context of eternal suffering or eternal bliss, how the fuck does even the most hideous suffering or most bountiful pleasure of our finite mortal life matter?

>>94502355
that sounds agnostic, to me. And aren't there literal gods roaming around in Marvel It's more about him condemning baseless faith to cope with the tragedy in his life, which is a rather common story trope for characters with such backstories.

>>94506975
The Bible literally says this.

>>94506996
All kinds of texts say all kinds of things, anon.

>>94506978
>Character that has famously clung to his religion as a coping mechanism and anchor throughout times of extreme suffering, and had such strong faith he was almost convinced that a certain child was a miraculous conception
>'Lol, I'm atheist or don't like God now' casually dropped into a single page without any story or proper explanation around it
This is not good writing.

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>Trying to understand the motives of an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient being

>>94506976
You're just repeating the "minor suffering compared to the pleasures of heaven" argument that has already been dealt with.

>>94502355
>God only exists if good things happen to me
Dumbass writing.

>>94507118
How is your legs getting crushed in a rock slide an evil? Anything unfortunate that happens to you is an 'evil'? Is getting a splinter an 'evil'? The only difference between the two is scale.

>>94506914
>Natural evil

Natural evil is a result of our fallen world, but again it's utilize in God's plan to bring some good in this world or something else. I do not know how exactly, but he has a plan for all of us.

>could have brought about said good without resorting to the evil.

First God does not or did not cause evil, and second your missing the point. You are saying that God could have created this good without evil, when this good comes out of evil that God uses. This only lead to God to completely take out evil all together, and that will make us robots at that point. Man must first have a choice or there's no point of it all.

>>94506975
>what is belief

>>94507047
>taking things out of context
This is not good reading

>>94507036
We are talking about the Christian God and using his three attributes that are described in said book, then I can also bring up that parts in said book we are using for this discussion where he is wise and knows what's best for us and has the best plan, even when we don't know the exact detail or what good can come from it, for God is the one who can do such a task. If you are using some of the text for this discussion and ignoring others, then this discussion is pointless.

It bothered me more when they turned Reed and Peter into atheists

>>94507331
>be scientist
>me atheist now, scientists are atheist
>SCIENZXE
>Bill Nye breaks into your comic-book
>have you heard about the forward thinking pyrofox genderfluid mandible men?

>>94507331
>Mark Waid had Reed meet the One Above All, who fixed his face after Doom wrecked it
>now no longer believes in him

>>94507149
Yes, natural evils are also considered evils. If you don't like that use of the word, just mentally replace evil with "evil and/or suffering".

>>94507251
>You are saying that God could have created this good without evil
Yeah, that's kind of what "omnipotent" means.

>This only lead to God to completely take out evil all together, and that will make us robots at that point. Man must first have a choice or there's no point of it all.
I don't magically become a robot because God let the boulder that was about to crush my leg bounce a little differently, sparing me from a premature and agonizing death.

>>94502355
They did this with Spider-man and Reed Richards, too. What the hell. The issue where Richards state that scientists can't believe in gods or the supernatural happened in the same issues where they talking about Doctor Magical Doom and his afterlife travel machine. Seriously, what the hell?

>>94505268
Can you commit a finite offense against an infinite being?

>>94502585
Sounds like a shitty god

>>94507407
>Yeah, that's kind of what "omnipotent" means.
I didn't mean he can't do it, he certainly can, but the result would just be robots with flesh that has no choice.

>I don't magically become a robot because God let the boulder that was about to crush my leg bounce a little differently, sparing me from a premature and agonizing death.
I was responding to how you said bringing good without evil, but this would include all evil here and thus no free will. Again, God could do it, but we'll be robots. And to respond to your boulder, again, God has a plan for that situation.

>>94502745
I liked it better when we thought Nick Fury licked Thor's earhole.

>>94507093
>free will somehow negates omniscience
what

>>94507510
I don't see why not.

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>>94507331
Anybody remember that awful .1 comic that tried to retcon Uncle Ben's death so that he didn't die until he got to the hospital, and then Peter blamed God because he saw a Jesus cross on the wall?

It's not like the entire point of Spider-Man is Peter blaming himself for his Uncle's death or anything.

>>94507470
Marvel can't into anything that isn't the current idea of progressivism anon. It's pretty common knowledge by now. Their characters change beliefs as easily as shirts, and they all spout the same things that the "progressives" do. It doesn't matter if it's just a vocal minority, they essentially "hijack" everyone.

Hell, we're talking about the company that has the European Dictator who rules over a Medieval Village Country lecture Dracula on racism! You're expecting them to actually write logical characters?

>>94507600
Ah yeah, I remember that. It came out last year or so. Itsonly purpose was to make Pete an atheist so Slott could then have him say "spirits are fake" to Betty Brandt. Yeah, that's real...

>>94507583
Right, "God has a plan". A plan that includes natural evil. Evil that he is either unwilling or unable to prevent. God's "plan" leaves us right back where we started without actually resolving any of the issues.

>>94507600
What issue is this?

>>94502355
I want /pol/ to leave this board.

>>94507670
>A plan that includes natural evil. Evil that he is either unwilling or unable to prevent. God's "plan" leaves us right back where we started without actually resolving any of the issues.
Not it doesn't, God plans uses these evils for his ultimate purpose. Again, he uses the state of our fallen world to for his good. Perhaps he doesn't stop it cause there's a good that can come out it we don't realize. It's not that he's unwilling or he can't prevent, he has a plan for it. Your the one that arbitrarily brought to square one, where this was dealt with.

>>94507695
>writer changes core aspect of certain character
>OP literally asks "why"
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE /POL/ REEEEEEEEEEEE

And I thought Tumblr was bad...

>>94507594
If God knows exactly what everyone who is ever going to live is ever going to do, then human actions are predetermined and free will is an illusion. If God doesn't know exactly what everyone who is ever going to live is ever going to do, then he is clearly not omniscient.

>>94507595
Then it seems to me you haven't thought about it enough. One way or another, a major point of Catholic theology is that God is infinite goodness and any offense against that is in and of itself also infinite. Therefore not only is eternal punishment justified, it's the only fitting punishment, and it's an incredible act of mercy that each of us are allowed to remain alive in order to seek forgiveness each time we sin.

>>94507762
We know what people in the past did. If you were to travel back in time such that you knew what they were GOING to do instead, would that negate their free will?

>>94507671
Like I said, one of the point one issues. It was called amazing grace.

>>94507750
We've already been through the "greater good" argument. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then he can achieve the greater good without resorting to the evil. If he cannot, he is not omnipotent. If he could, but doesn't know how, he is not omniscient. If he chooses to do evil when he could instead choose to do good, then he is not omnibenevolent.

>>94507785
>God is infinite goodness and any offense against that is in and of itself also infinite
No it isn't. Furthermore, what harm could man do to God?

>>94507863
*tip*

>>94507785
>would that negate their free will?
Yes. If all their actions are predetermined, there is no room for free will.

>>94507785
Sounds like you have to convince yourself that any finite transgression against an infinite good deserves such punishment. Like, what's the point if the guy who feels guilty because of what they did in 2nd grade ends up in the same place as someone who murdered and raped dozens?

I know belief is supralogic, but that gives me pause.

>>94507863
>If God is omnipotent and omniscient, then he can achieve the greater good without resorting to the evil.
Still not getting God cause no evil and only allows it I see. And again, for that to happen, evil must not exist and then robots with flesh. Once God has taken evil away and thus free will, then our existence is meaningless. And the greater good wouldn't exist in the first place without evil. And let's not forget he can just do this on a whim, but we know how that would leave us.

>>94502390
>the Spot's arm reaching out of his Spot hole
mild chuckle

>>94507951
If he feels guilty why did he never seek forgiveness? Are you just ignoring that option for the sake of your argument?

>>94507925
I think you misunderstood my example.

>>94507890
The same harm we do to others when we claim to love them but constantly injure them.

>>94502585
If god is real, he can not be both benevolent and omnipotent.

>>94508010
They can both either seek forgiveness or not. They can both end up in the same place.

>>94504202
Stephen Colbert
Joe Biden
Pope Francis

>>94507961
We've already been through the "free will" argument. It does not deal with natural evils.

>>94502355
bad shit happens because someone choose to do something bad that had the choice to not be a fucking scum bag
wow thanks god

>>94508010
How does man injure God?

>>94507785
>in order to seek forgiveness each time we sin.

couple of hail maries each sunday takes care of that

>>94507961
I think the claim was that he cannot or does not know how to divorce evil and nature.

Besides, aren't angels basically robots?

>>94502390
- Heather?
- the Wrecking Crew guys
- Absorbing Man?..
- Typhoid Mary
- no idea about the hooded guy
- Milla
- Ikari
- Foggy
- Kingpin
- Blindspot
- Kirsten
- Echo?.. (the girl behind Kirsten)
- Tenfingers
- The Hands ninjas and Tenfingers' followers
- Deborah Harris?.. (behind the ninja)
- Tombstone
- Purple Man
- Electra
- Zemo?.. (behind Electra)
- no idea about the girl and the black guy
- Parker without suit?..
- Widow
- Cage
- no idea who's behind him
- Owl
- Shroud
- Spot
- Matt's parents
- Dakota
- Karen
- no idea who the hooded guy next to Dakota is
- no idea who the Osborn-like dude next to hooded guy is
- Frank
- White Tiger
- Gladiator
- Lady Bullseye
- Bullseye
- dunno who the glasses guy is, the Inhumans dude maybe?

>>94508010
>I think you misunderstood my example.
I think he understood it just fine.

If you know what someone in the past did, and go back to the past and tell them it turned out badly, what happens if they try to change their decision? Either they can, and it turns out you didn't really know for sure what they would choose, or they can't because the outcome was already determined.

>>94508056
Through our pride in rejecting His will in favor of our own. Does it not injure you when you attempt to guide someone while having a better knowledge and understanding of whatever situation they're in and they essentially spit in your face?

>>94508021
That is about the sum of it, yes.

>>94508068
You have a very warped idea of how Catholic penance works.

>>94508103
My example did not involve telling anyone anything. It involved merely knowing, which is more accurate to how God's omniscience is represented.

>>94508056
Because apparently if he shows faith but acts against it, it hurts his feefees. Like if you're waifu fucked Goro unless you're into that. Maybe God is, too.

>>94502515
REEEEEEEEEEE

>>94502515
>catholic
>Christianity

>>94502355
That's called character evolution. Daredevil was supposed to know the truth sooner or later.

>>94508122
So the guy who did misproportionally more harm to other man, other children of God, gets to avoid eternal punishment as well?
Whatever is responsible for psychopathy, load me up on that.

>>94505275
>Nancy Pelosi
I mean for votes sure. Biden is in it for the kids he gets to molest.

>>94508122
>Does it not injure you when you attempt to guide someone while having a better knowledge and understanding of whatever situation they're in and they essentially spit in your face?
No, because I know I'm not some omniscient being filled with hubris.

>>94508172
If he's truly repentant of his past acts and moreover makes the effort to not fuck up at all in the future, yes. You rage about consistently applied justice as well as consistently applied mercy, it's weird.

>>94508206
Can you really have hubris if you're omniscient and omnipotent?

>>94508122
If God is omnipotent, should he not be able to make himself impervious to any harm that I may unwittingly cause him? Bear in mind that I do not believe he exists and thus any injury that I might cause him if he actually exists does not stem from ill will, but ignorance.

>>94508264
Why is every argument like this basically
>if God is x shouldn't He conform to exactly my idea of how He should act?

>>94508239
If I were omniscient, I'd already know when they would spit in my face. Feelings would hardly be a consideration.

>People are still condemning and defending the actions of a being that can't be defined by human morals
Wew

If God is Omnipotent, why did he have to rest for a day after making the universe for a week?

He should just have been able to snap his fingers and do it all instantly.

>>94508345
just because you can do something, doesn't mean you have to

>>94508239
Cause it sounds like the laws need to change but we can't vote on it.

People themselves have a somewhat scewed vision of god
some think of him as an ass good for nothing dickish ruler who does nothing
or too higher that thou the care for anything to just lets us burn
yet i see him as what he
really is
a Father a Creator to give his children/creations
the knowledge and ability to choose not to fuck up

what say you is a better father

one that does everything for them and them to never has choice

one that acts like a child and just fucks with them for fleeting amusement

or one that cares enough give the children knowledge on how not to fuck up and better themselves
the ability to chose and to intervene if there ignorance or bothers/sisters seem to fuck them over and they had no power/say in the matter
and reward them for sticking to the knowledge / not consciously being an ass
and sadly a good father has to let his children make there own mistake to learn from them through ether themselves or brother/sisters

>>94508332
>a being that can't be defined by human morals
Why is that exactly?

>>94508367
>and reward them for sticking to the knowledge

Allegedly.

>>94508332
>maybe this ideological being doesn't even exist
wew
and people says mathematicians just do mental masturbation

>>94508410
eh in my experience he does and it does say in the word of god he does

your opinion is your own
just try to follow the word and pray
see what happens my dude you will be prove right or wrong you might get reaffirmed or surprised

>>94508412
I didn't say he existed senpai, just that it's pointless to try to make sense of the actions of an hypothetical omnipotent being.
>>94508372
God is supposedly perfect so he can't think like a human being.

>>94508367
if I was god I'd just give everyone their own world to rule
It's not like I don't have the means

>>94508468
Personal anecdotes, belief and text said to be the word of God but written and rewritten through the course of centuries claiming so isn't valid confirmation.

>>94508477
Didn't mean to mock your post, I agree with the sentiment.

>>94502355
This is retarded. DD's Catholic guilt us a part of him.

I dont know why people still support this terrible company.

>tfw Calvinist leanings because my experience as an artist/writer indicates to me that there's no feasible ground upon which a story may judge its writer.
I mean, I feel it's a memeticly 'weak' philosophy as it is prone to encourage laziness on the part of the believer, but it's logicly a hard one to shake. Besides that I see little evidence for a justification of some nebulous 'free will' scientifically or religiously except that it makes some people feel like the world is 'fair' when we know damn well it's not.

>>94508477
>God is supposedly perfect so he can't think like a human being.
It does not follow that human morals cannot define him or his actions.

>>94508496
Would each person get a world with no other people then? What about animals?

>>94508619
Not him, but these could all be NPCs managed by the DM, i.e. God. The player would be none the wiser.

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>>94502355
>It's /co/ has a relatively calm discussion about religion

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.

>>94508600
Human morals are based on what a human perceive as right or wrong. God is not a human and doesn't think like one, and while you can say his actions are moral/immoral from your perspective you don't know how a omniscient being thinks or what are his justifications for doing what he does, so calling him evil or righteous is pointless.

>>94506441
Can you really imagine an explanation for the need for Harlequin Ichthyosis? One that would completely satisfy you and make you agree that it was the right thing to do? I honestly can't.

>>94509046
I am ignorant of most humans' reasons for doing most things. That doesn't put them beyond human morality and the same is true for God.

>>94508157
Miller made Murdock a born again in one of the most acclaimed Daredevil stories.

>>94509046
Wasn't the whole point of throwing Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden because they ate the forbidden fruit and gained knowledge of evil and good?

Doesn't that mean we gave up our place in paradise to know what good and evil are? God himself comfirmed that the fruit would grant that knowledge, so it would seem that we have some claim to the legitimacy of our claims of what is good and evil.

>>94508916
I thought /co/ used to be open to lots of varied discussion, while also being criticized as a general "feelings hugbox". Though that was years ago before people started getting pissy about Marvel's diversity campaign.

>>94509227
What if they just ate fruit that made them retarded?

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>>94509318
Well, that would explain everything, actually.

>>94509191
Now they can write Daredevil: Born Again Again.

You guys ARE Calvinist, correct?

>>94502355

Because most writers are incapable of putting themselves into the shoes of someone who has faith.

>>94508098
Here's the Wikia Page: http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Daredevil_Vol_5_16

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People calling themselves atheists seem childish. It is as saying you don't believe in Santa. All you have to prove to other kids is that Santa isn't real. And identifying yourself as someone who knows Santa is not real is childish.

Unwavering enlightenment is achieved crawling out of nihilism. Not being nihilist, but by passing it. Not some lite-nihilist who tells everyone how nothing matters, by telling everyone how nothing matters. If nothing matters, don't speak, breath, think. Cease all unnecessary functions. Whatever is left has to matter to you. But even you don't matter. Soul that is merely chemical reactions riding a beast you don't even control. How laughable is the priority order that you've been given - Survive. Everything you do is for the sole mission to survive, an order that is built to fail as your body reaches it's expiring date. Then what was the point? Had you followed all the orders, you'd be with offspring. The beast lives on, you on the otherhand no more than old shedskin. String of pubic hair fallen from machinery of life.

You dream of escaping this beast, but the beast is more of you than you're of it. You're bound to this flesh and on it's whims. Eat. Sleep. Fuck. Defecate. Where are you supposed to go? What are you supposed to be? Everything that is you, is right here, right now. Shifting, growing and eroding. Bunch of beep boops guiding a beast.

Settle being beep boops. Dream that dreams itself. If you can't do that, then who are you to tell normies to abandon their fairytales? To cease to exist? Or calling yourself a non-believer of Santa, while you're true self is a fairy in 5th dimension.

>>94509716
this
>>94502355
because there is a driver to make all the characters interchangeable, especially the antagonists

>>94502515

Even being Catholic, he can have a lapse in faith.
and to be fair, I don't think prior to this he had many church/faith interactions since Bendis' run.

sidenote: Alex Maleev is my favorite DD artist.

>>94508013
Fuck off Luthor

>>94509719
Is this some kinda shitty pasta from reddit?

>>94509943
I dunno, but I really want to fuck Amelia Bedelia now.

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>>94502355
They mad Murdock an Athiest? Fucking really?! That would be like making Apocalypse a Mormon or making Reed Richards quote Mark or Deuteronomy to the rest of the Fantastic Four to inspire them.

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I'm an agnostic myself, but anyone who just denies or turns away from god only because bad stuff happens (by proxy) to him than that person is an amoral asshole. Same with bible nuts that claim that any all ethic would derive from god and without him there would be no right or wrong.

>>94510069
For Apoc, just say his powers came from Kolob. Boom, mormon

>>94504177
>The pope is latino
>most of America is Catholic
>White religion

>>94509185
God is more akin to a Lovecraft outer gods than your average Joe in that you can't even comprehend how their mind works, why they do what they do and while their actions cause suffering to us there is no certain way to see if they are doing it because they are evil or they are good.
>>94509227
As far as I know Adam and Eve where cast out because they disobeyed rather than them being cast out because of the knowledge they gained. Whether God eventually planned for them to gain that knowledge or not is something. We may never know.

>>94510089
It's like I always say: I believe in God more than I believe in people.

>>94510151
The pope is an Argentinian, anon.

>>94504544
>>94507551

Anons, you ever learned how to ride a bike? Your dad probably took off the training wheels on your bike one day and told you it was time to learn. So you go outside and he was holding on to you so you wouldn't fall over. Then after awhile you're riding along and look back to notice he's not holding you any more and your riding for 5 minutes. Then you proceed to fall over. But you kept trying anyway because for 5 minutes you were riding on your own. Now as an adult you can ride for miles without any problem. You would never have learned to do that if your dad was always holding you and you still had training wheels on.

Welcome to one of the most basic tenants of Catholicism. God could do everything for humanity and make sure life is always perfect and nothing bad ever happens. But then humanity as a species would never develop and learn how to deal with those challenges on their own.

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>>94510151
>>94504197
>>94504220
>suddenly Hispanics aren't white
make up your mind

>>94510253
Yes, they were cast out because they disobeyed. My point was, however, that they got knowledge of good and evil by eating the fruit. That means that we, according to what god said about the fruit, do have a claim on talking about rights and wrongs and can at least talk about the morality of his actions.

What did always strike me as funny was that god said that it was forbidden to eat the fruit because it would give us knowledge of right and wrong. But how could they be expected to listen to him? They didn't know that it was wrong to go against his will, they didn't have that knowledge yet.

>>94510414
Hispanics were never considered white. Your chart is silly.

>>94510894
Apparently they are since those are arrest records. Don't forget the evil "white" man Jorge Zimmermendez shot Trayvon.

>>94510958
Ok bud that's real nice. People could update our census and information taking, but probably afraid to do so cause the sjw's will call it out as racist

>>94509699
Daredevil: Born Yet Again, or How I Stopped Not Believing and Love the Devil.

>>94508036
Except, as I said earlier, natural evil is a result of our sin, which created this fallen world.

>>94511176
So, how does sinning cause natural evil?

>>94502515
>>94502355
Honestly though anyone implying that Catholicism ever played into his identity besides a couple of guilty monologues and a scene or two in Born Again is a fucking casual. He always was a shitty, lapsed fake Catholic.

Frankly I fucking hate casuals
>Something SJW casuals don't like happens
>Chimpout based on their lack of knowledge
>Something Non SJW casuals don't like happens
>Chimpout based on their lack of knowledge
horseshoe theory at its finest

>>94511176
So big G decided to make humans so retarded they ruined everything? He's basically like a movie villain that creates monsters he thinks he can control that end up threatening the whole world? Lol

>>94502745
>Thor became Unworthy because Fury said "What if Gorr was right?", Gorr being the guy who started killing Gods because they didn't intervene.

Thor fucking intervenes all the time! He's a superhero damn it!

>>94511246
There's no detail process of the situation, just that it happens once people have sin.

>>94506250
>muh Hebrew is the only canon
Luther didn't get the whole gestalt.

>>94503215
Don't flatter yourself.

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>>94511315
Is this your idea of super HERO?

>>94502355
This is one of the reasons I just dropped DD

>>94503084
This


>>94508157
>That's called character involution

>>94502998
Is cancer a result of God's intervention, or developed by humanity's insistence on creating devices, utensils, and smog filled with heavy metals, and chemicals, and millions of electronics that bombard our bodies with electromagnetic radiation?

>>94503215
>You do realize that just by association you're already going straight to hell, right?
Guilt by association and speaking for god? Anon you need to rethink what you're doing.

>>94503084
>literally has met Thor who inherently violates/invalidates the first commandment via existing
>REEEEEEEE ALL CHARACTERS NEED TO BE GOOD BOY CHRISTIANS LIKE MEEEEEEEE

>>94510317
Did your dad lock you in a burning cellar for falling off the bike? Oh wait, terminology, "did you decide to lock yourself in a burning cellar by falling off the bike, knowing full well that the punishment for falling off the bike is getting shoved into the cellar, thus it is your own fault you burn, your own free will, and your dad has no responsibility for the state of affairs"?