Who wins?

>>94417455

Fate. Even Dr. Strange fans say Fate.

>>94417455
Fighting Fate is basically the same as fighting Nabu, who is many tiers above Strange.

>>94417455
There are good arguments for both of them, but Nabu is a really good trump card for Fate. Strange usually has to use tricks and prep time to beat beings on Nabu's level.

>>94417455
My only experience with fate was injustice 2 and he seemed like an irredeemable worthless sack of shit

>>94419651
So is Dormammu.

>>94423953
And?

>>94417455
John

Someway

Does Dr. Fate instantly equal to Nabu?

Doesn't Strange have an entire mansion full of equally powerful asspull artifacts and deals a lot with Cthulhu type entities?

>>94417455
no one because death battle is shit

Fate is a Lord of order. So gate takes it by a mile

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>>94417455
Here's the question: what is the strongest entity each has thwarted/defeated solo?

>>94424735
Who gives a shit about titles? The Spectre is the Avenging Hand of God, the Angel of Death, and he'll job to anything much above a mob boss.

>>94424499
>Doesn't Strange have an entire mansion full of equally powerful asspull artifacts
not equal.
The magic of the DC universe is said to be far more violent and uncontrollable than those within the Marvel universe. (according to A/JL)

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>>94423971
Can Nabu do card tricks?

Didn't strange beat Analogue Tim Hunter with Helm of Nabu in that All new Avengers issue using some stupid trump card shit.

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>>94426237
>mfw no one will address this because Fate's villains are such hot garbage that they make Green Arrow's look impressive.

>>94426365

He sold out to a higher being to do his dirty work for him.

>>94426329

Marvel Magic is just Marvel cosmic utilized differently like the shit we see with Asgardians, Olympians and extra-dimensional entities and Marvel Cosmics are more potent than DC Cosmics.

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>>94417455
Depends on which Strange desu. He was literally exempt from Death for a few decades there. They've been nerfing him cyclically since the 90s.
Although what >>94426329 says holds merit. Marvel Magic is practical & scientific, it has rules & limits. DC Magic is poetic & God-derived, you can do fucking anything. So it largely depends on the battlefield & attached rules. Flash had trouble running in the Marvel Universe because no Speed Force.
>>94424147
Unironically this.

>>94426502
Close but not quite. Cosmic = Universe, Magic = Multiverse. Hence why Abstracts can be considered both, since they essentially ARE universes operating on a multiversal plain.
Gods occupy this weird overlap because they're created by a universe's native Cosmic energy but form their own pocket dimensions thereafter, whereupon they can accumulate power & draw strength. Hell was born of Earth-616 energy & belief, but is now considered an independent reality to entice spells from.

>>94423118
Everyone was an irredeemable worthless sack of shit in that game. Mainly WonderWoman.

>>94426419
Yeah it was still an ass pull.

>>94426419
No he tried to and his offer was rejected. He summoned some shit from the Blood Bible

>>94417455
Strange. Not even a hard contest.
>But Fate has Nabu
But Nabu can't act directly, THAT IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE HELMET. Read a fucking comic book you wankers.
And by that same metric, Strange has Agamotto hanging on hus neck.

What is the fundamental difference in the nature of the Marvel and DC Universes, and which is better to live in?

>>94417455

Who are the better patron entities, the Vishanti or Nabu?

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>>94426237

>>94428040
Vishanti are genuinely less dickish than fucking Nabu ever was.

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>>94426670
>Cosmic = Universe, Magic = Multiverse

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*takes your helmet*

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>>94426419
Tim Hunter is more powerful than the Endless. That's why everyone is scared of him. Even if Strange had someone beat a 'version' of him, it wasn't an actual cross over so it didn't count.

>>94417455
>literal multiversal deity
>guy who can kung fu pretty well

Who the fuck do you think?

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>>94427820
>Nabu can't act independently

DC magic allows for a total breaking of the rules and doing whatever they want, it does not conform to science at all.

Marvel magic is just another science that anyone can learn and is overall insanely weaker than the DC version.

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>>94426237
Strange beat Shuma after powering himself up. Shuma got better and has been cameo'ing in Marvel ever since.

Fate beat two Shuma level enemies on his own and imprisoned their ass. They never got out.

Fate wins.

>>94429905
Why are they like this? Why is the DC universe a world of impossibility and going beyond what you can imagine, while Marvel is super grounded in this reality and cold hard science and limitation?

>>94430023
one is trying really hard to not be the other

>>94429926
Hey, I was reading that the other day. Immortal Doctor Fate #3, right?

>>94430124
Mostly, yeah.

>>94430023
because the writers doing most of the groundwork in the 70s -90s drew from very different inspirations.

DC is heavily influenced by myth and the early 1900s writers like HP Lovecraft, Lord Dunsany and James Branch Cabell's Jurgen. Most of these authors wrote about magic and other worlds and fundementally unknowable and ineffable. Gaiman especially was heavily influenced by Lord Dunsany (I highly recommend him too), and he had a pretty heavy influence on DC's magic, even though he came much later in the foundation of it.

Marvel followed what was more popular at the time, high fantasy. In which there are rules to magic, rules and knowable costs. The influences were JRR Tolkien (it may seem a bit of a stretch now), D&D, HP Lovecraft again, and their multiverse via Strange is more like a planeswalker in The Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath than other HP Lovecraft books. Marvel also took the idea from alchemy, that magic was a science, so they are actually influenced by the scientific revolution and the alchemists at that time, and maybe a bit by Alister Crowley.

anyone care to add to my list of major influences?

>>94430023
Because Silver Age DC was a world of fun and adventure where Silver Age Marvel was a world of soap opera and grounded heroics.

Think Superman vs Spider-Man.

>>94430124
Actually, this is sort of it

But mostly silver age nonsense that Marvel tried really hard to not imitate. Marvel fans were the kid of people who would look at Superman pushing down on the ground and moving the planet thinking that was taking things way too far. Almost everything DC was no limits which caused Marvel to actually create and enforce limits on their characters which attracted fans who appreciated that kind of thing.

No one had a problem with this until internet powerlevel faggotry fucked things up.

>>94430124
I prefer DC's way of doing things.

If Marvel characters were in DC, they'd be more awesome. Hulk could probably have his own version of the Speed Force based around strength and power. The Spider-Totem concept would probably make Spider-Man much more powerful and stuff.

>>94430217
i find that hard to believe when half the x-men are bullshit reality warpers

>>94430023

Marvel Magic has always been poorly defined and represented and whatever you get are mostly writers pulling stuff out of their asses.

At best it's just another representation of the cosmic side of Marvel.

>>94430230
The X-men continually go through rises and drops in power, but it's all explained in the story. Usually when someone becomes that powerful they lose it or die shortly thereafter

>>94430230
Now they are.

But they started out with a girl who could levitate objects, a snowman, a guy with laser eyes, a buff athletic guy with weird feet, and a guy with wings.

Compare that to JLA where Green Lantern could do anything so long as it didn't involve yellow and Superman could survive the big bang going off in his face.

Marvel has upped its power levels since the Silver Age (amusingly at the same time DC started lowering its power levels).

Currently it seems like DC is upping their power levels while Marvel is toning them down.

>>94430226
Why do they have to be the most powerful aspects of reality?

What's wrong with a guy who can jump good and can deadlift about 15-ish tons at the most?

>>94430230
Until the early-mid 90's the X-Men were considered to be the low power team who struggled to fight guys that most single Avengers could walk through without help.

Not only did they have that Spider-Man episode, but they even mentioned how their team was not really up to the task of handling supervillains several times in the 80's when it came up.

It was weird power scaling that came along after they became famous in the mid 90's that changed a few things.

>>94430620
silver age Magneto was one of the most powerful villains in all of Marvel at the time. He could fucking mind read with his magnetism

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>>94429308
You gonna offer an argument or jus' meme somore? :^)

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>>94430676
>can DOOM play as well?

>>94430569
I'm just a guy with a lot of imagination, and a desire to go beyond the limits of reality, and I don't believe in impossibility. My star sign is of the Earth element, but I hate being grounded and I love being high up in the sky above the clouds. I believe in and practice supernatural things.

Basically, I'm naturally inclined towards things that are big and beyond this mundane reality. Going from human to godlike interests me. Being the generator of a powerful force that exists beyond space and time, and touches every facet of reality, is much more awesome than just having strong legs and accelerated perception and healing. Being perceived as feared and capable of doing anything and defeating anyone just because you're BATMAN is awesome compared to just being some human.

>>94429829
This shit right here is why as much as I like Strange, he stands no chance desu. Fate has on the regular, fought God's and their ilk without any kind of magical pick me up or power boost. I love strange to death, but he usually needs some form of extra help or a tool or trick of some kind to just manage to trap an entity of that kind of power. Fate slapped around the literal hand of god with honestly not much effort once nabu was in control.

>>94430873
>Slapped around

Spectre eventually kills Nabu, but Nabu does fight evenly with him and eventually lets Spectre kill him to start the next age of magic.

Then Nabu gets better because Magic.

Its ambiguous who would actually win if the fight continued.

>>94430857
>My star sign
stopped reading
>>>/x/

>>94430652
>Found the casual that never read Lee era X-Men

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What about a Dr. Strange hopped up on Zom?

>>94431043
>silver
>bronze
nigga do you even know comics history?

>>94431105
fuck off casual you already proved you have never read a damn thing other than a wiki page

>>94417455
Nobody they team up to fight evil that try and invade our dimension

>>94431185
What if each one views the other as the ancient evil that is invading their universe?

>>94431251
They talk it over then have sex

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>>94430705
Not until he stops getting cucked by Reed.

>>94417455
Depends on which Fate. Full powered Kent, or even worse Kent+Inza is a ridiculously strong being.

>>94429829
when did this happen? I want to read it

>>94423118
His power was severely underplayed in that game. It was a damn shame honestly.

>>94430942
Huh, then I have misremembered that event. Need to reread that shit. Thought fate had the upper hand for most of it then let himself get put on the ropes and killed.

>>94430983
This

>>94431552
Anytime Fate is a person combo they're OP as fuck. Even the Strauss's were OP let alone the Nelsons.

I wish they'd bring back the "two people + a magic helmet" concept for Dr. Fate. It was really cool.

>>94431510
>blue yes
That's a Doombot.

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Alright so we know which is stronger, but which has faced the worse/the most powerful eldritch abominations?

>>94430197
>Dr Strange goes to Kadath
never knew I wanted this until now

>>94432116
no, send Moon Knight instead. Fits the story way better

>>94432143
porque no los dos?

>>94431834
DeMatteis ending was best. Nabu gets reincarnated as a human and moves on, his full power, plus chaos lord equal power is shared by the nelsons.

>>94424499
>Doesn't Strange have an entire mansion full of equally powerful asspull artifacts and deals a lot with Cthulhu type entities?
probably, but he'd need to know WHICH ONE he needs to defeat Fate\Nabu.

Magic, especially in Marvel, is extremely situational, most magical items and trinkets do ONE SPECIFIC THING and while invincible at that, are shit against anything else

>>94432400
There's a panel in which Inza uses the powers of fate to fix a problem, explaining how doing a and b solved it. Kent replies that a and b had nothing to do with the problem (some magical mutation of a monster). Inza replies
>I'm dr fate. If I believe it works like this, it works like this

People seriously underestimate how
>I can do anything
fate is

>>94426670
>Magic = Multiverse.
Cosmic=Eternity&Death, Magic=Lord Chaos&Master Order.

It means you need to "follow rules"=Order to "break causality"=Chaos.


It's also worth to notice that, most of the time, "Magic" in Marvel is just asking help of higher-reality beings. Like, the greatest magics most sorcerers can do wholly by themselves are those that let them contact said beings.

>>94429458
In theory, wouldn't Marvel's Tim Hunter be Billy Kaplan?

>>94426366
>this triggers the Mouseketeer
>>94429926
>>94429829

>>94417455
DC characters are overpowered. They would win against their Marvel counterparts.
Aquaman is the only one that should lose, but even he won. I am still mad

Strange, Fate requires a host in order to anything beyond reside in the helmet, and Strange has felt with people just like him and his host. He may be stronger, but that's a glaring weakness that Strange and exploit easily

>>94432649
Yeah, Magic in DC is full-on Reality Warping For Free.

That said, once he did fight Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet to stalemate by using one different Darkhold-level trinket for each Gem power... while being perfectly aware it only worked because Adam willingly not used them in concert.

Fate is vastly more powerful, but Strange can be TRICKY when he wants and needs, as he often has to deal that way with enemies vastly more powerful than himself. Basically, Strange has ONE CHANCE to trick fate in defeat, but it's a really slim one.

>>94432887
Read comics.
>>94429829

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>>94432887
>The Helmet can't act independently.

>>94432943
This is basically it. Strange is Batman and Fate is Superman. Strange can win if he had time to make a plan and gather the right spells but in a straight up Death Battle Fate wallops him just like Dormammu or Shuma or most Strange foes wallop him in a straight up no bullshit fight.

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>>94432887
Good look getting the helmet separated from Fate. The thing contains its own universe and its magical energies are so great Black Alice said it resisted her taking its power more than The Specter.

Nabu might not be AS powerful as The Specter but he's atleast in the ballpark.

Also Strange has that "needs to make gestures with his hands" weakness that is FAR more easy to exploit than knocking the universe on top of Fate's head off. Even Hulk was able to fuck up Strange by crushing his hands.

>>94433408
>>94432887
Fate's amulet ALSO contains a universe inside it. And the souls of every other Dr. Fate.

Strange fighting Dr. Fate isn't Strange fighting whoever happens to be Dr. Fate at the time. He's fighting Fate. And that means all the previous Dr. Fates and Nabu.

And no, crushing the helmet isn't going to net him a win. Mordru tried that, the helmet just reformed and blasted him.

But crushing Strange's hands WILL stop him from casting spells.

>>94433446
>>94433408
>>94433344
>>94433298
>>94433318
>>94417455

Strange is fucked.

The "instant win" against Fate is getting the super helmet containing a universe and capable of independent action and repairing itself off his head.

The "instant win" against Fate is crushing his hands.

Breaking his hands is going to be far easier than breaking the magic helmet.

>>94433522
Against Strange is crushing his hands I mean.

>>94433446
Strange wins by magic-ing inside the universe of the helmet\amulet.

Nobody ever tried it, I think.

>>94433943
>Magicing himself inside Nabu's universe where a guy that can hold his own against The Spectre sits waiting or the universe of the amulet where every Fate ever waits to gang rape him

That sounds like real bad ideas Anon.

>>94434004
Inside Nabu's universe, Nabu cannot do anything because he cannot change the reality with magic as HE is the reality. Using magic would mean changing the rules, but he IS the rules

>>94428254
Why does this tickle my pickle

>>94434107
>DC Magic
>Cannot change reality

Also

>He IS the rules

And the rules are MAGIC.

I don't see how teleporting inside the helmet is going to get Stephen anything but killed. It would be like teleporting to Dormammu's Dark Dimension of Shuma's Chaos Dimension without Stephen having an ace up his sleeves.

>>94432716
If you've got a solid source on that Chaos/Order bit I'd appreciate it. IIRC it's never been explicitly addressed. Not in their Dr Strnge appearance, their Silver Surfer appearance, nadda.
Strange has actually dealt with Eternity & Death more than those two. Eternity even debuted in Strange. Same shit, basically.

>>94434599
>And the rules are MAGIC.
Magic is breaking\ignoring the rules.

He'd be forced to change himself to use magic inside himself. He'd get meta-thematically defeated.

>>94434717
>>If you've got a solid source on that Chaos/Order bit I'd appreciate it.
Chaos &Order are the Eternity&Death of the magical dimensions. The In-Betweener is their Galactus.

it was stated in their first appearance in, I think, Byrne's Fantastic Four, when Reed, Sue and Silver Surfer go rescue some Elders of the Universe in the magical dimensions to save Galactus

>>94434808
>Breaking/Ignoring Rules

And Creating them.

I don't think you get DC magic. There are no rules. Only symmetries.

>meta-thematically defeated

Except not, because shapeshifting changing the self is magic so dirt-easy Constantine can do it.

You're acting like Nabu is some sort of unchanging Monad. "Lord of Order' describes what he controls and what philosophy he extends over the cosmos, not "what he is". He's not an Endless.

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>>94434808
>>94434107
>If Strange gets into the Helmet he wins

No. If Strange gets into the Helmet he's fucked. Just like Mordru.

>>94430652
A reformed Magneto had some trouble fighting the Avengers until he was bailed out by the New Mutants.

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>>94434973
Also here's the Helmet fucking up a guy strong enough to control The Specter.

If Strange goes into the Helmet this happens to him.

Going into the Helmet is the very last thing Stephen wants to do in a fight.

>>94423971
And how many times has Strange defeated him?

>>94435184
He deals with Dormammu by outwitting him, not by having Deathbattles with him where they just teleport into an arena and fight.