When did the disney renaissance truly end? Tarzan? Hercules?

>>94399278
I WANNA KNOW
CAN YOU SHOW ME?
I WANNA KNOW ABOUT when the Disney Renaissance truly ended.

>>94399278
It works better when you think of it as a 2nd Golden and 2nd Silver age.
>2nd Golden age
The Little Mermaid - The Lion King
>2nd Silver age
Pocahontas - Hercules
>Decline era
Fantasia 2000 - Chicken Little
>CG Renaissance
Meet the Robinsons - Probably ended with Wreck it Ralph as by that time most people believed Disney had returned to making great animated movies, though one could easily include Frozen into this category.

>>94399476
according to normies revival era/second renaissance is Bolt - Moana(10 years of WDAS).

We're entering sequel era soon, starting with WiR2:RbtI.

>>94399278
Seeing this makes me feel dumb now because I never knew Phil Collins did the soundtrack to Tarzan until recently.

>>94399973
I always forget Bolt is Disney.

It was pretty good, but for some reason just feels like something maybe Dreamworks could have made.

>>94400066

You could say same about Zootopia.
Or even Tangled.

>>94399476
Its sad cause i do think Fantasia 2000 is good just obviously not nearly as good as the original.

The celebrity shit kills the mood.

>>94400639
>Its sad cause i do think

*It's sad 'cause I do think

>>94399278
>When did the disney renaissance truly end?
Pocahontas

>>94401300
The Hunchback of Notre Dame was a fine movie.

>>94401352
Yeah but Pocahontas was so awful and Disney expect it to be a hit that would rival Beauty and the beast.

>>94399278
Hercules. Probably the last Disney animated movie to don't have the villain dying horribly.

>>94401392
so it's like that Tom & Jerry Piano cartoon that won an Oscar, and MGM wanted another one, so they made one about mouseketters where they behead Tom, hoping it will give them another statue.

Most websites seem to argue that it was the period from Little Mermaid to Tarzan, so roughly looking the 1990s.

Still, I don't personally like some of the renaissance era movies (Pocahontas and Hunchback in particular; IMO they tackled themes that they couldn't really do all that well). And even if the post-renaissance era movies failed to make as much money at theaters, I am very fond of some of them.

>>94399278
Hercules ended it with a whimper. Tarzan killed it.
It was briefly resurrected with Treasure Planet and Lilo and Stitch, then silenced for good with Home on the Range.

Princess and the Frog was a good point to kick off a new era of traditional animation, but alas, it was not meant to be.

>>94399278
To me it was Fantasia 2000 that was the end of the Disney Renaissance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8810M5aZoGA

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>>94402194
But Wreck It Ralph was the start of the second Renaissance.

>>94402138
Hercules and Tarzan were good though. Get better taste, fagtron.

>>94401999
Kind of

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>>94399278

>>94402266

Nah. It's in the middle.

Lilo and Stitch was the last good movie before everything went to shit so I'm going with that.

>>94402266
That would be Tangled.

>>94399278
Fantasia 2000. Was being put together throughout the entire decade of the Renaissance.

>>94403282
it was when Gisnep movies finally started to make serious money, with Frozen as their highest grossing movie OAT.

>>94402346
>Tarzan
>Good
I'm afraid you're the one with shit taste, Anon. Tarzan was absolute trainwreck, from the bland, predictable villain, to Rosie fucking O'Donnel playing a wisecracking monkey (what were they thinking?!) to Phil Collins--PHIL COLLINS--providing some of the most dated sounding songs of his career, with nonsensical new age hippie lyrics to boot

>Put your faith in what you most believe in
>Two worlds, one family

WTF?!

You were supposed to grow up, Anon, and not still be enamored with this bullshit.

As for Hercules, sit back and let Lindsay Ellis explain to you why your opinion of this movie is shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KznZcK7ksf4

>>94400005
Which is the weirdest thing to me. I mean, he's good, but he's not the first thing that used to come to mind when I thought "Tarzan", and yet it works so well.

I don't know why Tarzan is considered the end when Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch came out afterwards. Sure the stuff between then and Emperor's New Groove wasn't that great but a momentary dip doesn't spell the end of an era. It was only after Lilo and Stitch that things started to get consistently mediocre.

>>94399278
Either Treasure Planet or Brother Bear

>>94403542

Sting was writing songs for Kingdom of the Sun.
All scrapped because Execs wanted a more profitable movie.

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Disney stopped being interesting to me when Frozen came out, honestly. I've had zero interest in their newer films since then, outside of Finding Dory. Came in with low expectations for it, but I liked it.

>>94403663

Frozen is modern Lion King, a movie they just wont let go.

>>94399278
HONEY YOU MEAN HUNKULES.

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Seriously, i'm the only one who actually like Kuzco?

>>94403702

But Lion King was actually really good and deserved it's hype.

If you call Frozen "Renaissance-Tier", you're an idiot.

>>94403702
I see what you did there you cheeky fuck

>>94403646
Are you sure it was about profit? I've understood they just had a lot of trouble writing a solid script, and that's why the entire movie ended up changing so much.

>>94403748

he's the best Princess

>>94403646
Kingdom of the Sun was scrapped because the story was a fucking mess with several different plots going on at once.

>Prince and the Pauper story between Kuzco and Pacha
>Kuzco falls in love with a girl in the village
>Gets turned into llama somehow
>Pacha probably has his own bullshit to deal with in the palace
>And Yzma wants to destroy the sun
>And I'm sure the girl Kuzco is in love with has her own character arc too and probably lots of other bullshit that just isn't known about

They were getting a clusterfuck here. So they decided to take the Emperor gets turned into llama stuff, make that its own movie, make it a comedy and see what happens and it worked. The movie we got was excellent while I'm sure Kingdom of the Sun would've been forgotten about over time had that been released instead.

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>>94403782

i dont mean quality, i mean money.

>>94403787
>>94403828

well, i think it was both. We got the funniest Disney movie out of this so i am not complaining about the changes.

>>94399278
emperor's new groove

>>94403838
In a way it was both. Sometimes, a mess of a script and unappealing concept equals an unprofitable movie few people will pay for.

If profit is all they cared for they wouldn't have remade the movie from almost scracth. They would have taken what they already have, make a few changes and spend the rest of the budget in the biggest marketing campaign they could think of.

>>94403918
This. Disney in the 90s and early 2000s cared as much about making a good movie as they did about profit.

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>>94403968

and now it's gonna be only profit.

>>94403542
>sit back and let Lindsay Ellis explain to you why your opinion of this movie is shit

Pure b8.

>>94403991

All of those have potential except for Toy Story 4.

Wasn't Lilo and Stitch the last actually great movie Disney did until Tangled?
Meet the Robinsons is underrated though, that movie was alright.

>>94403991
I'm probably late on this but why not "Ralph Wrecks the Internet"?

>>94404085
Because wrecking the internet is like pissing into a sewer

Hercules is generally considered the last "Renaissance" film because that's when the box office trend finally popped. It was also the height of 90s excess for Disney.

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>>94400639
Rhapsody in Blue and the Firebird are better than a bunch of the original Fantasia segments imo. Just not the absolute classics like Sorcerers Apprentice or Night on Bald Mountain.

>>94404085
Because "broke the internet" is the thing.

>>94404692
I get the reference, but "wreck" kinda makes it Ralph's thing

I think "officially" Fantasia 2000 is considered the last movie of the renaissance.

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>>94405440

who the hell came up with the whole "era" concept, anyway?

>Tarzan

Sorry, I know it has nothing to do with the point of this thread, but I can't think of Tarzan and not think of that edited crack-ship video with Amelia from Treasure Planet, Jane from Tarzan, and Thrax from Osmosis Jones.

>>94405732

That one is impressive technically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahVKiBDMBHw

>>94406468
It is damn impressive, much like many of the other bizarre shipping videos from the same maker.

It's just, Thrax. Why Thrax? That shit was so out of left field. Everything up to that point was just standard shipping stuff, then suddenly Thrax out of fucking nowhere. Shit boggles the mind.

>>94403991
We needed Incredibles 2 at least.

>>94402138
Do people actually hate Hercules? Anon's probably shitposting, but it's not the first i hear of it, in one of their videos Julien and DingDong from OneyPlays were also lamenting it a bit and it struck me as odd, they didn't elaborate so i can't imagine eddy gripes they had

>>94408404

Hercules is by far not the best disney animation. I wouldn't say people hate it, it just gets dwarfed by other stuff. It's not bad, it's good, but it's not great.

>>94408138

just as we need Monsters University and Finding Dory.

>>94408404
>so i can't imagine eddy gripes they had

>>94403918
>scracth

>>94399278
I'd say after Hunkules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuzBpuiXnu4&t=156s

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>>94414029
>Only two and a half minutes in but I can immediately tell that it'll play HONEY YOU MEAN HUNKULES! every time his name is spoken which will quickly get annoying
Why am I going to watch the whole thing anyway?

>>94399278
PUT YOUR FAITH IN WHAT YOU MOST BELIEVE IN
TWO GIRLS
ONE FANTASY

>>94408602
This. I dont know where the hype from Dory came from, it was a rushed, poorly paced piece of shit.

>>94403782
>and deserved it's hype

*and deserved its hype

>>94403601
>Sure the stuff between then

>>94403542
your opinion is objectively garbage

>>94402266
I honestly thought it was crap when I first saw it. I was surprised when people were telling me it was their new favorite

>>94399278
Atlantis

it was a hot aztec inspired garbage

>>94405497
Whoever wanted to categorize it better.
The original animated movies are way different from the ones released in subsequent decades since they had to grab the attention of newer audiences.

>>94400517
You could not say Zootopia or Tangled are dreamworks movies what the fuck?

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The Emperor's New Groove is, unironically one of Disney's best films. Idk when this "prime" age ended, but dare not exclude this masterpiece

>>94403991
I wonder what the plan is for Incredibles 2
repealing the no supers act?
will the characters have aged?
more focus on Dash and Ivy?
did Jack Jack choose a power or is he a shape shifter?

>>94400517

Haha, no.

>>94404906
Yeah, but we are too good to be working in marketing.

>>94403542

Nah.
Those movies still managed to be good as a whole.

>>94418466
Helen

>>94418466

I think they said that Incredibles 2 takes place a minute after the first movie. Personally I find that disappointing.

>>94418088
I don't think it's even that really. A fair bit of the "timeline" aspect of Disney animation correlates to changes in the company and external factors.

The golden era was when they were new and had everyone's attention. The whole company was focused on making these films, and making them as good as humanly possible.

Wartime is obvious.

The silver era was them with their animation and story departments at the top of their game.

The transition from silver to bronze started with xeroxing cels instead of painting them. Big cost and time savings, but a poorer looking result. The original animators were now literal gods, but story department was struggling. Old animation and story guys were dying or retiring and things were declining.

Renaissance is where the talent in the new crew came out, along with new tech. The Little Mermaid used both, new director risen from the animation department and the first use of new techniques like CGI and FX, but also a return to old school work on the cels. A new generation of audience fucking loved it.

Post-renaissance was them struggling against the rapid shift to full CGI and competition who didn't seem to give a shit about the fundamentals of animation that had been established over 90 years. Competitiors movies looked like arse, but still made money. Disney corporate made some dumb moves. Disney people left and did better work at the new, quality competitor.

The revival was the realisation that good movies could still be made using the new methods, and that story was still massively important. Key people returning and then the merge with Pixar.

>>94420665
>Renaissance is where the talent in the new crew came out
And I should add, it was Disney realising too late they needed new talent, and to a large extent it came down to Milt Kahl returning from retirement to train the new guys like Keane and Deja.

>>94415114
>hype

disney banking on nostalgia actually

There are some movies that are very "Disney Renaissance" despite being pretty late in the game (in particular Lilo and Stitch), but if we're setting aside a firm chronological barrier, post-Tarzan is a good line to draw.

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>>94403542
>(what were they thinking?!)
>WTF?!
>As for Hercules, sit back and let Lindsay Ellis explain to you why your opinion of this movie is shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KznZcK7ksf4 [Embed]

>>94399341
Phil Collins is a turd but that was a great soundtrack.

>>94399278

Clayton died like a punk. If they really wanted to do the evil hunter thing, could have at least made it interesting. Take notes from the Most Dangerous game and make him an obsessive hunter instead of an greedy asshole.

>>94422080
>[Embed]

>>94399278
When all their traditionally animated stuff started going straight to VHS/DVD. Toy Story was the beginning of the end.

>>94405497

I think I'd enjoy that movie more.

>>94400005
>>94403595
They did that a fair bit around that time
Lion King was Elton John.
The Emperor's New Groove was supposed to be Sting, til they remade the movie.

>>94408404
>>94402346
Hercules isn't a great movie, it just had REALLY fuckin good songs.

>>94403828
Only downside was Eartha Kitt didn't get to sing. Still got her in the series and on the soundtrack though. Snuff Out The Light is gorgeous

>>94425526
Good songs, art, characters, and in many ways it had the best action sequences of any Disney movie. I know Disney's big among girls but if you're a boy you'd rather watch Hercules than Tangled and Frozen.

The renaissance wasn't that good in retrospect. I can go back to the 40s and 50s stuff and still find them amazing but the 90s output just isn't as good now that I'm an adult and not as easily impressed.

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>>94420665
Just a (you) for some fine posting there, anon

>>94425645
To be fair I never claimed Tangled or Frozen were good.

It started to die at it's peak.

The Lion King was too good to top.

>>94425661
>Little Mermaid
>Beauty and the Beast
>Aladdin
>Lion King

Even Hunchback and Mulan are pretty top tier

>>94425661
Oh right, we have a bunch of post-00's generations among us now. I always wondered how people who were completely unaffected by the enormous hype of the era would view the renaissance.

>>94425712
I was born in the 80s.

>>94400005
They dubbed that shit where I live. What a fucking joke.

I almost want to see Brother Bear because the OST is fine, but I hear it's like one of the all-time worst Disney flicks. I don't want to ruin the music.

>>94425661

it had catchy songs, why do you think Frozen took off so well despite being a mediocre movie?

>>94425645
The problem with Hercules is that Hercules is the leadt interesting person in the whole thing. A lead doesnt need to always be the most interesting person in it, the Matrix is proof of that, but the lead cant be the absolute least interesting. The muses, Hades, Meg, Zeus, Phil, the fucking horse ate all characters who i want to spend more time with. Herc is a big piece white bread.

>>94403542
Against my better judgement I watched that video and she pretty much says she loves the movie.

>>94425787
He's confused, which makes sense because he was forced to drink the retard juice as a babby. he doesn't know who he is or what he wants because he's supposed to be a god, not mingling around with filthy humans.

>>94425802
Not her best work. Her video shitting on RENT however is far better.

>>94425761
People give Disney movies a particularly hard time because of their legacy.
Brother Bear is still an alright movie, but not bad enough to ruin an entire soundtrack.
Even the lower rated ones like Atlantis, Oliver, and Black Cauldron have at least something going for them, they're just not up to par with total classics like Aladdin or Lion King.
People view Disney like a series, I guess. If the next one isn't as good as the last, it's score is affected.

>>94425761
Brother Bear is just mediocre.
The only ones I would consider really, legitimately bad are Home on the Range and Chicken Little.

And even HotR had one good musical bit

>>94425487

You would, traumatized kids wouldn't.

>>94403542
>dated sounding songs

In what context? Dated as in they sound older than the year they debuted, or what?

>t. normie Collins fan

>>94427016
>it's score is affected.

*its score is affected.

>>94425787
>leadt

>>94428729
>>94430376
Is this a new meme? People caring about grammar?

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Meanwhile no Coco threads on /co/.

https://youtu.be/bFIw4Eburfg

>>94430505

Pixar is gone, anon.

>>94430505

honestly. i dont "feel" this movie.

it could help a bit if it was in english, too.

>>94405497
I don't know who came up with it, but Dave Smith believes Fantasia 2000 to be a Renaissance-era movie. He's about as much of an authority on the subject as you can possibly get.

The Disney Renaissance was The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, and every movie up until the Emperor's New Groove were mixed results trying to cash in on the success of those two.

Also, worshiping the Lion King really needs to stop. A lot of it is pretty good, mostly the animation and soundtrack, but it's pretty flat otherwise.

>people still can't separate what something is with what they want it to be

>>94433329
it made gazillion at the B.O.

just like Frozen

>>94433377
Yeah, that's part of the problem. Disney pushed it as a modern masterpiece once the hype around it built up enough, and to people who don't know any better it looks like what they think an animated masterpiece is ("epic" shots, big ideas, death).

It's like an animated Shawshank Redemption. It's really fun, but I'd love to know what a person who thinks it's a masterpiece watches, besides it.