Why is this allowed?

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Even had a chance to explain himself better and he doubled down.

What a hot take! Really makes you think.

because comics are an irrelevant and dying art form
the industry will accept anyone who buys their worthless shit.

someone who's been reading spiderman for 50 years probably doesn't buy shit anymore since he knows only 1/10 runs will even be worth reading, let along actually good.
the new fan is probably some dipshit liberal who actually buys the comic, but only because spiderman is now a gay gook dating a black muslim

the market goes where the money is

what does "more of a fan" even mean? That your opinion should be heard the loudest in a discussion?

>>94297373
>>94297385
He's right tho

In fact I would say the opposite is true seeing as how all you comic book reading losers do is complain

>>94297385
>Heh. "Loyalty"
Motherfucker 90% of your costumers are battered housewifes that would still buy your books even if you came to their house and shat in their mouth. If that isn't loyalty what is?

These are some sour, sour grapes.

I think Marvel should shut down all the Twitter accounts of their writers untill they learn how internet works

>>94297373
The first post is very valid, if stated a bit obnoxiously. You're supposed to treat all customers like they're equal whether they spend five bucks or five thousand. But when push comes to shove, some customers are more equal than others, obviously. The second is completely retarded, though. Customer loyalty is the number one thing that keeps businesses afloat. Companies spend billions of dollars a year getting people so loyal that they consider companies to be their friends.

>>94297406
>the market goes where the money is

Yeah loyal fans don't buy comics, the people they are pandering to do. Neck yourself at the nearest rope please.

Oh yeah? Well I think that if you've been reading comics for over a year you should be banned from reading comics until you've convinced 10 people to sign up for a Marvel Comic subscription!

Follow me @

No, they're more of a fan. Because they're actually representative of the target demographic than some unpleaseable 60-year-old nostalgia-fag.

If you wan things to be made for you maybe you should start reading/watching things your own age,

>>94297373
It's the comic version of "we cater to casuals, hardcore gamer are too entitled"
See, they don't care whether you read them or not. They care that you bought them. Especially that certain circle, who make a living outta them but actually hate comics.

>>94297425

Nice bait anon.

But a "fan" who complains is better than a "fan" who picks up a comic once and then never reads another. Someone who complains clearly is interested in further consumption of the product, and as long as they complain the will to do so is still there. When people stop complaining, well, you dun goofed.

>>94297465
You just proved he isn't wrong though. The old fans don't buy shit anymore and no one knows how to get them back, haven't since the 90s when they started trying to force a collector's market becasue they ran out of ideas so the next best thing is to get people to buy comics because of the validation the characters bring them as [insert identity here].

>>94297420
Yes

You can't scream " Fuck Marvel! I ain't buying this crap!" and then also call yourself a fan

I know I don't like Transformers movies, I think it's pure shite, but I'm not going to try to convince Michael Bay that I'm a more hardcore fan than the guy buying tickets to his shitshow

>>94297373

Playing Devil's Advocate here...

"Fan" isn't a variable-value term here but a binary condition. You love Spidey or you don't. The kid who just discovered Spidey possesses the same "fan value" as the one who has read Spidey for decades because there is only one value, 1 for on (or 0 for off).

Taking the advocate hat off, I agree with the above. BUT... Stephen is being a bit disingenuous here and possibly trolling in that he full-well knows that the industry should value the long-standing customer more than the new customer who might lack staying power, despite both possess the same fan-score. This second usage is causing the trouble when he is conflating "fan" with "customer".

So forget fan and lets talk customer. Who is more likely to drop tens if not hundreds of dollars monthly on your merchandise, the customer who has a proven track record of having done so for decades, or the kid who is "really into" Spidey this week but might move on to fidget spinners or pogs next week?

Now there is an inverse to consider here, in that the long-standing customer is likely to continue even when the product hits some production issues. A business case can be made that its worth focusing on the new customers because you want the base the grow. Its why just about all subscription models will give massive discounts to new customers while someone who has been using their service forever gets nothing. Do you get annoyed when Verizon gives cheaper rates to new users than you? And if so, do you quit the service just over that preferential treatment? Probably not.

Its a balancing act. How much can you cater to the new consumer without running off the old?

In the comics biz the balancing act is especially delicate in that it seems the market is stagnant and the only consumers interested in the product are the old customers. They keep trying to shift to bring in flesh blood, the targets of the shift dont buy the books, and the old guard leave as well.

>>94297523
Most people buying comics right now ARE the loyal fans and completionists. Most of those new are the type that buy issue 1, then never buy another again.

anybody have that "i love x, i dont read x" tweet from some time ago?

The 80/20 Rule of Sales for success:

80% customer base is returning customers
20% is new customers

All customers are equal but some are more equal than others.

>>94297594
Are you fucking retarded? that isn't the Pareto Principle at all

>>94297485
And a fan who buys tickets to the movies is better than both

>>94297373
Well, most of their fanbase doesn't even read comics to begin with.

>>94297552

What is most telling of the twitter comment is how its underlying message is contempt for their own customers. Remember that these people are well-educated urbanites who are working in a business selling fantasies of adults in costume beating each other up. They find their own product to be beneath them and it makes them dislike themselves, that dislike being very easily transferable to their customer base.

In their minds they think "we keep trying to make this shit product of ours more palatable to our own sensibilities but you longtime "fans" won't buy it when we do so. We know better than you what you should want but you keep resisting us. What is wrong with your ignorant hicks??"

Its like... I know a person who works in a ammo manufacturing plant (they do more networking support for the business, not on the assembly line). He is strongly for gun control, he despises the business he works for and takes any chance he gets to bash the business... but lacks the courage of his convictions to leave the job that pays him in what he calls for everyone else in the industry supply chain "blood money".

Gotta watch out for the self-haters and hypocrites, they'll take you down with them.

Comics have always been a progressive voice, and the old-school fans wouldn't be comic readers if they weren't at least partially progressive themselves. But when the progressives did an abrupt shift into regressive thinking in the past 5 years, the old-school progressives have been left going "when did I go from an ally to an enemy?"

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>>94297471
>autistic manchild telling other autistic manchildren to stop being autistic manchildren.

>>94297552
>>94297703
Im not used to well thought out and intelligent replies, i usually just get called a faggot.

>>94297740

Like a good dozen threads on /co/ right now are all faux-outrage or obvious bait threads.
This board is mostly used like a toilet.

I would say that comics companies need to stop idolizing new readers. People forget Marvel was getting new readers and big interest during before Secret Wars but because of it's shitty need to relaunch to get "new readers" a bunch of titles relauched and a bunch of these new readers were confused. Marvel needs old readers because fuck there the only ones who can keep track of their business decisions to get new readers. I want to agree with Steve Wacker but the fact is old readers are the only ones looking at your product right now but mostly out obligation.

>>94297703
>>94297552
Nice job.

>>94297373
That's a typo it's really
No more a fan of SJW NGO Marvel

>>94297552
>in that the long-standing customer is likely to continue

Except that something like 1/5 of the comic book buying audience is over the age of 50, meaning a great deal of them will stop buying comics in 20 years as the begin to settle into old age.

There's also the problem of the industry reaching peak production. There's something like 300 different comic books put out each month. It's too much for any one person to follow, which naturally dilutes how much exposure any title can get, which leads to readers doubling down on the titles they know.

The comic book industry would be HEALTHY to shrink and put out fewer titles. But there's ironically too much money in comics for them to do that. Everyone is fighting for as much presence as they can.

>>94297899
>NGO

And what does this lovely acronym mean?

>>94297740
Sorry anon. ur a faggit, sucking multitudes of cocks. I bet your so gay, what with all the dick dribbling. Etc.

>>94297431
To be fair you don't thank your battered housewife, you just hit her more.

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But honestly
>reading capes
no thanks, I learned my lesson
I'm not going to waste my time in that trash.

>>94297925
Usually means non-governmental organization. Not sure what he thinks it means.

>>94297934
There's response im used to, thanks.

>>94297552
>A business case can be made that its worth focusing on the new customers because you want the base the grow. Its why just about all subscription models will give massive discounts to new customers while someone who has been using their service forever gets nothing. Do you get annoyed when Verizon gives cheaper rates to new users than you? And if so, do you quit the service just over that preferential treatment? Probably not.
In many cases you can make agreements with companies as a long-time customer to beneficiate from some of that. You "just have to ask".

>>94297594
Where in the fuck did you that learn that stupid shit from? 80/20 rule of sales has always been that 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Also know as the Whale rule.

He's right though.

It's the same thing as thearly "gamer" and "fake gamer" nonsense.

>>94297693

And that just brings me to the question "WHERE'S THE MOVIE SYNERGY YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT, YOU ASSHOLES?"

>>94297987
Not really. Gamer and Fake Gamer fall under subculture bickering tags. Like posers in the various subculture music scenes. Sure, companies may make a buck off these groups and the people who want to ape the surface style, but ultimately its an internal matter to the group trying to wrestle with changing times and demographics.

What we have here is more straight forward. Fans gatekeep a lot, but companies have a vested, direct interest in this dynamic. "Fake" fans are bad for business. They distort the real consumer base and usually aren't paying customers, certainly not the degree as real ones. American Comics have suffered from insularity and a shrinking base for awhile, but it's becoming clear that attempts like Marvel's recent stuff isn't actually growing the base at all. DC's Rebirth, the most nostalgia, pandering to the base thing we've gotten in what feels like forever, has been an unqualified success. Meanwhile we have Marvel headlines like "Diversity doesn't sell."

>>94297373
/sci/ here. If you take the Bayesian view, the reader of five decades is much much more likely to carry on reading than the reader of five minutes. Hence, however you express it, the long-term reader is more valuable. If you regard the second type as just as valuable, you are assuming that they will carry on being a fan, which is rather optimistic.

Is that why we get people rushing in with
"This is a 5 year old black girl, she's the smartest character in all of Marvel!"

>>94297551
nobody is buying tickets for marvel's shitshow

>>94297552
>>94297703

Best reply in the thread. Sound a lot like the trend with games media/game reviewers these days.

>>94297703
Why is it that conservatives think going around shrieking the word "regressive" makes their arguments valid?

Nobody who blames all their problems on "the left" is capable of any kind of rational thought. If you have actually somehow let Sean Hannity convince yourself that Marvel, a company primarily controlled by a Trump administration official, is part of a liberal socialist homosexual plot to destroy Christmas or something then you are flat out retarded.

Test

>>94297385
>heh nothing personal kid

>>94297373
he is right, both are fans and if they are "real" fans, the time being one does not change that.
Obviously a 50 years fan will have more knowledge but that was not the statement.

>>94297987
It's willfully ignorant of a distinction that does exist though. They would much rather choose one of the hyper-sensitive sides to cater to instead of being honest about the different habits and tastes of long term fans and new fans.

I'm reminded of a phrase I read recently in a psychology jounral; "Never dismiss, rarely affirm, always distinguish." It's meant as a guideline for 'ethical support/therapy' but it's useful for any customer facing job as well. You don't have to immediately "pick a side."

>>94298033
Stick to your calculators, nerd. I'm, going to break this down so you geeks can understand this, the people running shit now don't give a fuck who is a long time reader, they don't give a fuck who might be one either. They are pushing fast properties. One issue out the fucking door into the hands of whatever sucker wants to pretend his lootcrate fills the void, the rest are pulp, may as well be tossed right from the distributor to the compost heap.

As they see it they are middle men, they bought a shitty rundown house, they will slap a new coat of paint, and then they'll sell it to someone else. They don't live in it, the person who buys it won't live in it and eventually it'll rot away but they won't be around for that.

People who pretend there's an 'art' or 'meaning' to their stupid homos in leotards are kidding themselves.

>>94298100

Who says you have to be conservative to use the word "regressive"? The word's used because the current batch of so-called "progressives" are now turning back on everything progressives fought for. Do you really expect us to think bringing back segregation in favor of black people is "progressive" in the slightest? Or even abolishing the principles of freedom of speech because you want people you dislike to not abuse it?

>>94298139
>Do you really expect us to think bringing back segregation in favor of black people is "progressive" in the slightest?
Yes. The original progressives were staunch racists and eugenicists.

I honestly want to know what makes Marvel staffers think "insult and belittle anybody you have even the slightest disagreement with" is a good business strategy.

>>94298267
Got a guy elected President, anon.

>>94298100
Point me to where in either of that anon's post they mention or even hinted that they are a conservative, or blamed the left for anything.

>>94298271

Odd, Hillary's not President.

>>94297471
Good thing this strategy's making them money!

Look at those rising sales figures.

>>94297373
This is why I pirate. Marvel could change up their entire line-up tomorrow and put out nothing but gold and I'll still wait for Rips because they stopped bieng a company that deserves money years ago. But all of you fucking junkies who need your fix will keep talking about them and secretly supporting them in the hopes that one day they start caring about you again. Give it up, its over. Marvel no longer gives any shits about anyone who made them who they are, so why should anyone give them the time of day again? There are a vast number of different ways you could spend your money than on anything this shitshow of a company puts out. Fuck Marvel.

>>94298285
Growth stagnated but they are holding steady in volume which is record numbers.

You don't have to like it but someone is buying what they are selling.

>>94298273

That's how you know that guy has no argument. Just point out a word that "the enemy" likes to use that the poster's using and attack him for it instead of addressing his actual points.

It's a tribalistic thing.

>>94298100
I think the people who try to pull everything under a regressive left or horseshoe theory umbrella are retards, but there is a good amount of people demanding a return to older conservative values while calling themselves "progressive." The buzzwords and generalizations are dumb, but we do have groups trying to reconstitute racist and sexist dogma because they're either too stupid to realize what they're doing or they want to look righteous while returning to the status quo.

TL;DR, fuck the hypocrites pushing Riris and Miles-eseses and shaming people who dislike them, we need more Monicas, Lukes and Ororos.

>>94297373
can i ask for those 5 years worth of comic book money back?

>>94297457
Underrated post.

>>94298284
Thanks to Russia and the "electoral college"

The people made their choice

>>94297987

I wouldn't consider someone that buys the latest iron man just to take a selfie saying how cool it is to have iron man be a black teenage girl before throwing it in the trash and never buying another issue a comics fan any more than I'd consider someone that buys the latest Zelda just to take a selfie saying how much of a cool nerd they are by playing the hottest game of the year before returning it and never actually playing it a video game fan.

>>94298322
>buys
Everything else is irrelevant, no one cares if a customer buys it becasue they get off on the thought of trees getting pulped to make the book, it's a sale, all sales are final and non negotiable, thank you come again.

>>94297431
this
see: Spideyfags and X-fags

>>94298356

you're confusing a customer with a fan.

>>94298356
But that's wrong. This whole thread is talking about how a customer that comes back is five times more valuable than a customer that doesn't.

>>94297373
>>94297385
Because newfag normies are easier to pander to than whiny oldfags. Isn't it fucking obvious you literal retard?

>>94298299
>don't like it, don't buy it
>like it, still don't buy it

Naw, fuck you. It's one thing to admit being cheap and admitting to using your money elsewhere, but don't come high and mighty as though you're doing the industry a favor with your broken logic. If you really liked something then you'd support it and when it's no longer something you care for then you don't, plain and simple.

>>94298309

Remember when people were working to abolish gender roles? The rise of Trans-awareness has ended up BRINGING IT BACK.

Now apparently women with male interests aren't tomboys anymore. They're "genderqueer trans" or some shit like that.

>>94298100

Why do you assume its conservatives using the word "regressive"?

I've been a lifelong liberal. Commie pinko progressive libtard, whatever derogatory term has been thrown my way I've accepted. The liberals of this country have experienced a significant ideological shift in the recent few years where the progressive mindset ("lets build ramps so everyone can get in the building") has been largely replaced with a regressive mindset ("lets not allow able-bodied people into the building at all").

Don't make the mistake that anyone that criticizes you is on the polar opposite of the political spectrum. As an oldfag liberal, I'm pretty much orphaned from my own wing today.

>>94298409
Sounds like you're part of the alt right now.

>>94297373
How has this guy not been fired immediately after posting this?

>>94298445

Why should he be fired?

>>94298299
I paid for marvel comics for almost 20 years.
I can assure you that right now I feel absolutely ROBED and I am 100% I wasted good money on them and I will forever regret it.
pirate that shit, you will still be paying way more than it is worth

>>94298445
Didn't you hear? In today's PC world you can say whatever you want about your job and your customers without consequence. If you get fired then it's your employers fault for not letting you have your freedom of speech.

>>94298462
>I can assure you that right now I feel absolutely ROBBED and I am 100% I wasted good money on them and I will forever regret it.

The only value you should have taken from the comics is what you enjoyed from the story. Your emotional investment in the fate of a company was shallow and superficial.

>>94298462
I love feeling robed. There is nothing better at the end of the day than putting on a good robe. Makes me feel like a wizard king.

>>94298387
easier to pander, yes
easier to sell, no

>>94298356
Customer who buys mutliple issues > customer who buys one issue

>>94298519
I would like the feeling of disrobing people and then robing them. Just something about making them feel good makes me feel good while good things happening to me feels wrong all the time.

>>94298639
You can robe me, then put on a bathrobe or something. It's like a robe but not.

>>94298387
normies don't buy comics in long terms. they just buy whatever is the flavor of the month in movie scene and just tosses it after they posed with it on social media.

>>94298460
A Chase or Nike executive publicly saying that he doesn't give a shit if you have been a customer for years would get fired on the spot. It's called building customer loyalty. Look it up.

>>94297373
>>94297385
>Two years from now, Infinity War will be over
>Will be regarded as peak of comic book movie trend
>People will start getting exhausted with it, start going to less and less comic book movies
>Market will collapse
>Marvel will suddenly find itself having to rely exclusively on comics again
>WTF WHY AREN'T PEOPLE BUYING OUR COMICS!? WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BRAND LOYALTY YOU UNGRATEFUL LITTLE SHITS!?

>>94298612
Yeah and if they knew how to do that they would but they don't. So the next best thing is to ensure at least one sale instead of none.

>>94297373
>people will still defend companies like Marvel after this

>>94298430

Unfortunately I think you're correct. Not because I'm actually "right" leaning in any way, but because the far-left has decided that if you're not onboard with them 100% then you're "alt-right". 90% in agreement? 95%? 99%? You might as well be a rapist slaveowner.

Just recently, Jake Tapper from CNN was called alt-right for criticizing a known killer and terrorist. A *CNN* talking head, alt-right. Come on now.

I don't know what to do except call out my former allies when they go full retard and hope the pendulum starts swinging back.

>>94298692
>>People will start getting exhausted with it
>>start

anon...

Companies aren't your friends, they do not care about "loyalty." You are equal to the guy who read comics 5 minutes go if you both put down the same money

>>94298692
Marvel Entertainment, which does the comics, makes no money from the movies. That's Marvel Studios.
Marvel E makes most of it's money from merchandise. In fact it's CEO despises the guy who runs the movie division so he'd probably do a little dance of joy if the movies died.

>>94298691

But he didn't say that. He said a new fan has as much value as an old fan.

>>94298745
You are soooo right. You should probably tell airlines to stop their frequent-flyer programs, since they are just stupid. Call them right now. They'll thank you forever.

>>94298728
>but because the far-left has decided that if you're not onboard with them 100% then you're "alt-right".
I mean, that sounds pretty much like all far-whatever groups in politics. Or anything, really. You're either on board with everything or you're not with us.

>>94297406
>comics are an irrelevant and dying art form
You're right, it's not like DC rebirth has been selling ridiculously aell or anything.

>>94298830
Which means you don't care if someone has been a long-time customer. Which would get you fired on the spot from any company not run by a retard. Do you know how much money and effort big companies put towards building brand loyalty? What's so hard to understand?

>>94297406
>the new fan is probably some dipshit liberal who actually buys the comic, but only because spiderman is now a gay gook dating a black muslim
The new dipshit liberals don't buy the books though.

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>>94297373
>caring about what Wanker has to say
He's an actual one hundred percent contrarian.

>>94297373
That's why people use the terms casual and hardcore fan. You'd except comic book writers to know this...

>>94297373
>>94297385

this is up there with that always on guy from microsoft

>>94298164
This. Look up the literary bitch slapping Chesterton and Shaw had between the two of them, Chesterton opposing Shaw's progressive values like forced sterilisation. Heretics is a great introduction to this largely forgotten intellectual debate.

>>94298884

But then again, not very many companies have customers that alienate new ones because they "aren't real customers".

>>94298728
This is exactly the position I've found myself in.

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>>94298745
>Companies aren't your friends, they do not care about "loyalty." You are equal to the guy who read comics 5 minutes go if you both put down the same money

I like how Nintendo thought this way with the original wii. Look how well that turned out for them right after when they tried to get their audience back witht he wiiU.

>>94298983
Progressives saw a world without suffering or pain, it's retard bleeding hearts who refuse to abandon thier concept of original sin which stopped it when we were so fucking close.

Worded it poorly but in a way he's right if only to curb stomp the elitists

But he's making it be an oldfag/newfag war when there isn't one

>>94298743
Exhaustion will reach it's peak. I don't know about you guys, but at this point I'm really only going to a lot of these movies for the sake of completionism. Once they finally deliver on Infinity War I'm probably gonna stop going to them.

>>94298847
>You are soooo right. You should probably tell airlines to stop their frequent-flyer programs, since they are just stupid. Call them right now. They'll thank you forever.

The whole reason they offer frequent flyer points is because when you have a bunch of points saved up, you'll go to them even when you don't want to because you already have the points and would rather use them than let them go unused.

It's not them being your loyal friend. It's them manipulating you.

Yes, they want your repeat business, but not because they LIKE you or think highly of you. Because it's how they make money. If they think they could get more money out of one-time customers, then you'd see them catering to them with "first time flyer" programs and the like.

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>>94297373

>>94299130
I meant by that late of date. People are started getting tired of cape at least a year or two ago.

>>94298987
So? Your company policies should be geared towards getting new customers without alienating the ones you already have. Something that Marvel and DC were able to do for decades, old-fags calling new-fags names notwithstanding.

Can you imagine, after the New Coke fiasco, if Coca Cola had said "Fuck loyalty. We don't care if you have been drinking Coke for years. This is the new shit and fuck you if you don't like it." No. They did the exact opposite.

>>94299168
> People are started getting tired of cape at least a year or two ago.

I swear people say this every year. Since at least 2004.

>>94299144
You're to stupid to respond to.

>>94297373
I think they showed they didnt care about loyalty when they literally told the old fans to fuck off.

>>94297431
He need to realise that Las Vegas makes next to nothing from one time visitors, the real bank is in the addicts who come every weekend. Scare those off and you get nothing

>>94298356
>all sales are final
To the shops, who then flip it to a steadily shrinking reader/buyer base. Marvel's loud, obvious attempts to constantly alienate their core readership has had negative affects on their direct buyers, which is why retailers are so pissed.

>>94297373
Social media was a mistake

>>94299326
The only real lesson from this

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>>94299154
>the world you pathetic troll boys want is already gone
>omg drumpf I literally cant omfg
So which is it? Did they #RESIST and win or have the trolls won?

>>94299550
>don't insult women, they're equal to men
>women are the best thing to ever happen to ______
also this.