Valerian Vs Starlord

>>94247255
quips

I liked Valerian a lot, but it didn't have a deep story or interesting leads. WHIch is fine, they were very straightforward representations of each as to not bog down the momentum. And I felt that worked.

A lot of reviews seemed like they wanted a lot More in those area

>>94247290
But Valerian had jokes too. And they were funnier than anything in Guardians of the Memey. Why didn't people like it?

Because the actors in Guardians of the Galaxy actual acted and didn't have expressionless stares for two fucking hours.

>shitty Beatles remix vs trendy retro pop music
The trailers made it look like Valerian was trying way too hard to cash in on GotG's appeal.

>>94247255
>Why was Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets a bomb while Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 a success?
Nobody has taken space operas seriously since the 70s.

>>94247290
this too

Heaven forbid you make a story that isn't caked in snark and irony.

>>94247255
Valerian's problems come down to shitty casting and a vague marketing campaign. Every theatrical trailer showed you a cool world, but did nothing to sell the story. The leads had zero charisma and look like teenagers, which also didn't help sell what should have been a sure thing.

>>94247327
>>94247255
Not enough dance offs, bro.

How's it doing in France should be the important question. Nobody outside France and Belgium cares about Francophone comics that aren't called Asterix or Tintin.

>>94247416
>Nobody has taken space operas seriously since the 70s.
This.

Come on, the wold has kind pf grown to stay away from stuff like that after movies like Jupiter Ascending and the ever so forgotten John Carter. The only reason the gave GotG a chance was that it's connected to the MCU.

>>94247484
http://www.ouest-france.fr/culture/cinema-valerian-et-dunkerque-dominent-le-box-office-francais-5160260
http://www.allocine.fr/article/fichearticle_gen_carticle=18666050.html

So far, second best opening of the year, behind Despicable Me 3
In the line of 375 400 tickets sold

Guardians is more visually imaginative, they are both formulaic trash for the most part but Valerian looks like something I've a read thousand times, also Guardians has a little more substance, it's more energetic, and has a good soundtrack.

James Gunn is marvel's best director, that's not really saying much but it makes for some enjoyable flicks.

>>94247255
>"critics""""(paid shills) and audiences hated a groundbreaking and original movie like Valerian?

by paid shill do you mean "person who does not agree with me"?
you, personally, can say you dont like something, that is fine you are under no obligation to like something no matter how popular

you are a bit of a dick, however, for claiming that you are the sole voice of reason, and everybody else is having fun wrong

>Everyone bitching about the casting
The casting was fine. What people don't like is that DeHaan is short; from an objective standpoint he played the role of a smug/competent soldier who's trying to open up emotionally to his love interest fine. Delevingne could have emoted a bit more, but as a no-nonsense government agent, she was believable. Everyone else was pretty much spot on.

I said it on /tv/ and I'll say it here, flops like this are why we keep getting AbramsTrek. Everyone wants a buttchin-lead quipfest instead of something clever and imaginative, even if ita a bit quirky.

>>94247593
>Guardians has a little more substance
Nearly everything in GotG also added something to the plot.
Meanwhile you could cut huge parts out of Valerian like the whole act that included Rihanna and nothing would change.

>>94247255

>I know what Marvel is
>I don't know what a Valerian is
>would rather see what I know

>>94247484
I don't get it. Between Spirou, Blacksad, and Freak's Squeele, you figure SOMETHING has to have made a mark. But no, something always trips them up.

Valerian in particular has no excuse since that anime came out a few years ago. I found out about it from a fanmade Toonami promo, and it's always perplexed me why it never got picked up, because it was perfect for that kind of thing. Better than Code Lyoko, at least.

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GOTG 2
>Had Mantis
VALERIAN
>no mantis

>>94247633
>everybody else
Who? You mean the millions of fewer people who went to see the sequel and thought it was meh? What was the plot of GotG2 again?

>>94247255
Valerian's characters were the worst part of the film from what I heard, they weren't interesting, the guy playing Valerian is the same guy from Amazing Spiderman 2 who always looks like he just got a cold. He is supposed to play a badass space secret agent.

Also I heard that the female character who was supposed to be the Watson to his Sherlock was devolved into a combination of a cliche STRONK female character and a daphne "always needs saving" support character.

>>94247593
>>94247593
>Gunn
>better than the Russos

FULL
STOP

>>94247778
>posting ugly sluts

>>94247255
>>94247255
Cara Desomething looks like a man that's why.

>>94247327
Company wars probably

>>94247778

That thing is fucking hideous though. Why would anyone want to see a movie for that?

>>94247416
>>94247494
I don't believe that to be the case, I think its mainly because the space opera movies have all been shit. You have the Star Wars prequels, you have John Carter that was such a terrible take they didn't even feel comfortable using the term "Warlord of Mars" for him.

Jupiter Ascending just didn't look that good, I never saw it but the characters and plot didn't look that cool.

>>94247820
Quill finds out who his father is
Rocket, Yondu, Drax, Gamora and Nebula all deal and come to terms with personal/relationship shit.
Baby Groot is cute.

It's a stronger film than the first one character wise but it feels like a lot of the main cast is regulated to doing nothing but hanging out for a good chunk of the film.

>>94247897
>people hating on Juipter Ascending

It wasn't a good movie but it had potential. Dump Tatum and make it a miniseries and it probably would've been a lot better. It definitely suffered from not developing its backstory and characters more and also Tatum with elf ears.

>>94247897
It's likely a vicious cycle: "nobody takes space operas seriously", ergo moviemakers don't put much effort to them, ergo they suck, ergo nobody takes space operas seriously... and so on.

>>94247484
It was heavily advertised in Germany. Second most seen movie in Germany only behind Despicable Me 3. Appearently, they don't need to fear a lot of money because they covered themselves pretty well, but they won't make a shit ton of profits either

>Critics like a thing OP doesn't like
>paid shills who should be ignored
>critics like a thing that OP likes
>professionals whose opinions should be valued
Really makes you think

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>>94247318
>it didn't have a deep story or interesting leads. which is fine
Goddamn people disappoint me so much.
This is the furthest thing from fine.

>>94247255
Because Valerian is a bog standard 5/10 generic sci fi film with leads played by 2 unlikable and bad actors

>>94247923
>It wasn't a good movie but it had potential.
To be a good movie?
But it's not, and people shouldn't be expected to sit through unrealized potential.

>>94248141
It is.

The movie is a spectacle movie that I saw driven more by the energy of the set pieces than anything else. It's fine to not weigh those down and the one time thy try is the worst scene in the movie.

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>>94247820
>You mean the millions of fewer people who went to see the sequel and thought it was meh?

GotG 2 sold 2 million more tickets domestically than GotG. I suppose it's audience score of 90% (2% less than the original) could indicate they were horribly disappointed though.

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>>94248200
Namefag, it's just possible you're a Tendies Babby who wants to sit through 2 hours of the CGI equivalent of shiny keys jangling in front of an infant.

>>94248280
That's the rub though. The movie wasn't aiming for anything other than that. To which it succeeded.

Basically giving the audience the essentials and then heading off on its quest to fill the run time. I'm not saying that every movie can survive without more substance, but this movie was designed to not be more than it was.

The whole thing would have collapsed had it tried.

>>94248346
>The whole thing would have collapsed had it tried.
I have some bad news for you on that score...

Also you have incredibly shit taste in movie going.

>>94248413
Like I said, it almost did but I felt t had enough style and enthusiasm about itself to keep afloat more than not.

That's the difference I think, as it doesn't no pad itself out with bullshit to make it seem weighty when it's really just dumb. It's just dumb and surrounds itself with energy.

>>94248459
Yes, people realized from early reviews that it's just bright CGI greenscreen spectacle dancing behind a pair of Hollywood featherweights with tv-actor skills.
It's complete garbage and is justifiably cratering at the box office.

The fact that you find this sort of thing reasonably satisfying should worry you.

>>94247820
>You mean the millions of fewer people who went to see the sequel
But that's wrong. It did more than the first movie both domestically and internationally.

>>94248555
Not really.
I'm just judging it based on what it is. Not what it could never have been.

It's a Luc Besson movie and as one it's a reasonably entertaining one.

>>94248612
It's easily one of his worst films, and mainly because the central characters the movie revolves around are complete shit.

This is the same thing that killed John Carter.

5th Element is well regarded because of Bruce Willis' rough deadpan charm and Milla's cute quirkiness, their likeable performances keep it from being retarded shenanigans.

Valerian has no core, it's just an excuse to piss away money to special effects studios.

Because Guardians of the Galaxy 2 was riding the first movie and Marvel brand wave up to its premier.
It wasn't a question of if it was gonna bomb or not, but of how much money it would make.

Valerians was just mediocre and didn't have anything, but Delevigne eyebrows going for it.

>>94248814
Every trailer I saw for Valerian made it look like a distractingly cluttered mess.

>>94248766
It's still "retarded shenanigans", and if the only thing that saved the Fifth Element for you were those two, why even bring it up?

They're both immensely goofy movies at their core, and I won't say that Fifth Element didn't balance that better. It did. But if you're into that aspect and don't overall disregard it ... it's just a ride.

>>94248843
Can't blame them for false advertising.

>>94248814
Audiences went into GotG2 wanting and expecting more Guardians of the Galaxy.
And that is what they got.

All Valerian tried to sell was two semi-sexy Who?'s running through overwrought CGI scenes.

>>94247255
>Yet """"critics""""(paid shills) and audiences hated a groundbreaking and original movie like Valerian? Meanwhile they eat up and flock to GotG like sheeple.

Well you already seem to have constructed a comfortable narrative about what happened for yourself, so who am I to come in and explain it differently.

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>>94248953
Fifth Element's spectacle was a backdrop for fun, irreverent performances from good actors.

Valerian's terrible actors were an excuse to have dense greenscreen setpieces flashing across the screen.

One of these is a movie with characters you end up caring about, the other is a technical demo masquerading as a film.

>>94247255
The main characters are ugly

>>94248766
You can stop parroting the critics so that you can pretend you're intelligent now.

>>94247440
>shitty casting

This. I hope the director at least had the both play his meat flute while they pretended to be brother and sister, because I can't fathom any other reason behind that shitty casting.

>>94247255
Literally everything you said in this post is complete bullshit

>>94249040
You cared about the characters in the 5th Element? I just saw them as an excuse for a whacky space adventure.

Let's be honest the real reason it's better is that 5th Element was a Moebius knockoff that actually had Moebius working on it. Not that the Valerian comics aren't good, or that the art direction of the movie was bad, but shit man, it ain't Moebius in either case.

>>94248843
Apparently it was. I never saw the movie, but my take on the trailer was that the movie would be strong on the visuals, and weak in every other department. The reviews confirmed my every suspicion.

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>>94248953
Chris Tucker and Ian Holm alone were more entertaining than the entirety of Valerian.

You don't even have to bring in Willis and Jovovich.

>>94249111
It's hard not to root for Bruce Willis, and Mila's character was endearingly cute and doofy.

5th Element has memorable characters, even bit roles like Tiny Lister's improbably President.

Valerian is like a dry run experiment to see if genuine actors are even needed for sci-fi spectacles anymore. (The results? Yes, they very much are).

>>94247677
Yeah.
It's weird too how there was actually MORE filler in Fifth Element, but that was better executed because Rod Spice appeared in smaller chunks than fifteen consecutive minutes of fucking Rihanna. It's a very fatty film.

>>94247255
>Especially since Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets was a much better film than GotG vol 2.
>Valerian had more interesting characters, better visuals, an original and deep concept/story, better action, better actors, and a lovely and erotic romance that was better than Starlord and Gamora.
>Yet """"critics""""(paid shills) and audiences hated a groundbreaking and original movie like Valerian? Meanwhile they eat up and flock to GotG like sheeple.
>Is cinema as an art form dead now?

What the fuck is this? There's no way you actually watched this pile of trash because every single thing you just said is bullshit

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>>94249280

he hasnt. most fucks here who are bitching about Valerian are retards who uploaded fake pirated shit and then decided to revenge on the movie.

the movie is good but it was merchandise very wrong and looks like pirates decided to ignore it because french goverment paid ransom to keep the movie from pirat sites.

its fucking hilarious when this movie is actually killed by not being pirated and production company failed to introduce the movie so people know how and what to identify it with before buying tickets.

>>94247820
the plot was dealing with starlords dad, but that took a back seat to the themes of family that were present for every character, quill had themes of abandoned fatherhood and coming to terms with that, rocket had themes of parentage with yondu, but with groot taking the place of quill for him, while also dealing with brotherhood themes with quill and family themes with the team, drax had a bit with mantis, gamora and nebula had to deal with their shit from thanos, yondu served as surogate dad to both pete and other ravager guy, while also being abroken son figure for stalone's character... that's why the people i know who like gotg2 like it

>>94249148
I loved those two in the fifth element. So that gets no arguments from me.

Valerian just had a lot of energy to it.

>>94247255
People just don't understand true Kino

>>94247255

A Charismatic lead actor
Sense of humor
Likeable characters
Great Soundtrack

>>94247668
>from an objective standpoint he played the role of a smug/competent soldier who's trying to open up emotionally to his love interest fine.
Not really. He does a discount Keanu Reeves impression which is just grating and devoid of charisma.

>>94250957
That's pretty much his smug voice. He does the same in A Cure For Wellness.

And it's not devoid, just very little for how the dialogue and his character arc is written. But in the sense of being in this very wacky movie, he has enough for that.

>>94247255
Valerian was SJW tripe.

>>94247255
Dunno about Valerian, but GotG2 is literally worst MCU movie (even wrose than Thor 2 and IM3). I have no fucking idea how this get so praised especially after good first one.
>BABBY GROOT XD
>NIPPLES XD
>SHIT XD
God fucking damnit.

>>94247255

People will watch a MCU extended universe movie just to say they watched the new one and stayed until the credits scene.

>>94251280
Are you me?
I've nearly cried after watching it.
I went to the Gotg marathon, so it hurt much more after just watching first one

>>94247255
Quill, Rocket, and Yondu did the whole "machismo contemplation" bit a lot better than Valerian did.

>>94249063
Your heart is ugly, shill

Just saw Valerian, i was expecting a trainwreck and it was worse.
The only good parts are the copy/paste pannel from the comic books, the adaptation is loosely based on the first storythey changed the names of some species...
Worst of all, the casting is shit, i don't understand how you can keep these 2 for the whole production and not switch them, they don't fit the characters.
I learnt to read in these comics, i'm fucking mad. Should have spend 13€ on the book again instead of watching that shit.
Only solace i find is that now Besson won't touch the licence anymore, he can go fuck his trilogy idea in the ass

>>94247255
I enjoyed Valerian but it wasn't the better of the two.

Valerian had fucking amazing imaginitive aliens, but it had plenty of super weak points, like the several very long exposition dumps (including the one near the end that explained us the movie like we were 5 years old).


Ultimately nobody wants to give space fantasy a chance if it isn't something already popular like Marvel or Star Wars, but that's fault on the audience not the movies themselves.

James Gunn is better than Luc "Literally Who?" Besson

>>94247255
Valerian should really have been made into a cartoon ages ago, one that kept Mezieres's artstyle (Laureline a cute)

Instead it got a French anime thing and now this which will only be remembered for flopping

>>94252409
Holy shit yes.

The plot is incredibly simple but they still added in three recaps at the end.

Valerian was watching GOTG2's obvious "ego is evil" twist and went "I can make mine EVEN MORE OBVIOUS" by having its movie basically start with us being shown the nice innocent natives get fucked over and still expect us to go along with 2 hours of "why do these blue aliens hate this a-hole military leader? What could the reason POSSIBLY BE!"

I bet you could fanedit Valerian to make it better. Maybe only show tiny glimpses of the memoryflash at the beginning, don't show the full flashback till the end and use it to wrap everything up instead of a exposition recap of the entire plot so far done by the main cast.

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>budget: 200 million
>ww box office: 30 million
HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAH

>>94247255
I'd been looking forward to GotG2 since the first movie ended, but I only heard about the Valerian movie a week before it opened, and the advertisement I saw for it made it look like a dumb kids movie.

>>94247255
Because it was neat space opera about about different aliens coming together on a makeshift space station but did almost nothing with it. The trailer where they introduced Alpha had me thinking all those species would play huge roles but it turned into another "humanity fuck yeah" adventure.

I should have learned my lesson after Green Lantern and Jupiter Ascending

>>94247850
>t. Drax

>>94247778
Mantis was buttugly in GotG2

>>94247255
It's simple, Valerian doesn't have the Marvel name nor Disney bankroll pushing it.

>>94247255
Valerian was terrible. Visually good whoever is responsible for that should get a reward. Performances were flat which seems to be more the director then the cast though the director may have been working with bad material. The story was overly simplistic as hell. Dialog was dry boring and filled with tech speak that was a turn off that could have been avoided.

You have to be a troll.

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>>94247255
>Especially since Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets was a much better film than GotG vol 2.

>>94247440
The story sucked the visuals were its strong suit.

And I'm debating if it was the cast or director that caused the flat boring delivery. Brought my 11 year old nephew and he was board as shit.

>>94247255
I liked Valerian, but the human characters were shit

except for that one soldier who took over that alien's body. he was the one cool human in the entire movie

>>94247593
Guardians I think really benefits from the soundtrack and storywise it makes sense to sort of live in the music. Overall a more fun movie.

>>94254021
>not the base commander who is trying his best to keep shit together

>Valerian shills are a thing now

>>94253976
>the director may have been working with bad material

Besson wrote the script. Dehaan can definitely act with some emotion, there's some on display here, but the construction of the characters was solely Besson's purview.

>>94247668
This guy is right about the leads. He was a Manley and hard to believe. She was boring but it males sense. Her look was great though with those eyebrows. The movie couldn't get away with believable though you need something to keep people engaged and stimulated. The movie works for fans of this stuff but spent work for wider audiences.

>>94254059
he, and the iss commander in the opening scene are OK

>>94247835
Its mostly just stoic agent. She needs saving once because she came to save him. I want to say it made him look weak but honestly it was pretty even. I think him being small made it feel uneven.

Honestly some built guy with dark close cropped hair and a strong jaw fixes a lot of this. It would be more engaging and he wouldn't feel overly vunurable.

Why did Valerian flop?
>Terrible casting for the leads
>Source material no one gives a fuck about
>Bad dialogue
>Boring as shit
>Luc besson

>>94247923
It was fucked in almost every way. There should have been someone forcing those siblings to dial back 30% of the strange and someone else to direct. Eddie redman is academy award winning. Pretty sure he was poisoned to give that performance somehow.

>>94254176
Valerian made up for at the end when he killed all of the killbots

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Speaking of Valerian, anyone else been binging the 2007 cartoon? Haven't seen the movie yet but it brought the series to my attention and someone on /co/ told me all of it was already officially uploaded to Youtube, both in English and French, so I started watching.

Thankfully I know French so I don't have to subject myself to the English dub, but the show's surprisingly pretty good.

Also the OST is on point, I just wish the opening was longer or had a "complete" version, it cuts off pretty early to my liking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4tYx2KDz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W1cuRv6GRw

One is a sequel to the MCU breakout hit and the other is a adaptation of a comic that only people in europe know(which reallty don't say that much because GOTG itself was a literally who, but this a sequel to one of the most popular marvel movies now)

>>94248843
You know something that I don't see mentioned. From the ads in america I thought it was another movie riding the train of tween books on the big screen. Like scorch trial twilight or hunger games. Honestly I had that feeling the first ad and never lost it. Only saw the movie to kill time with nephew.

Also city of a thousand planets is a shit title to get new audience.

>>94249111
They had charisma. The guy in Valeria didn't and honestly neither did she but could have been salvaged orbiting a stronger male performance just cause she's hot and had a strong look with those eyebrows.

>>94247255
Those Valerian actors look ugly. Guardians has sexy Starlord, and a talking racoon and Batista

>>94247837
He really is. He really leveled up as a director up between the first GOTG and the second, and his own non-MCU works blow their output out of the water. The Russo's have yet to better Winter Soldier with any of their other work, though not for lack of effort.

>>94254472
>Those Valerian actors look ugly. Guardians has sexy Starlord, and a talking racoon and Batista

This. Had nothing to do with charisma.

>>94247255
>Laureline isn't a redhead
God fucking damn it, you had ONE JOB!
ONE JOB!

Personally, I'll probably end up watching it when it comes out on bluray anyways but I wasn't really all that interested from the start because the trailers gave no indication of wtf it was about, and I dislike both the lead actors, Dehaan is a manlet and honestly weird looking and Devingy or however you spell it can't act for shit.

I think alot of the reason people are crapping on it is because with better casting and promotion it could have been more of a success, its like watching what could be a decent fun movie punch itself right in the dick, before its even come out.

Besson hasn't made a good movie in a while though... he's pretty far from his Leon, and Fifth Element days.

>>94254583
>Besson hasn't made a good movie in a while though... he's pretty far from his Leon, and Fifth Element days.

It's a mix of Lucy and Fifth Element in terms of capability.

>>94247255
I can't believe there are people in the thread defending Valerian. What a shit movie-- all the makings of an outstanding universe and great special effects... with a couple of bickering teenagers in front of the camera. The main characters are so unlikable it's hard to look around them at the awesome visual effects and lore.

>>94255042
They won me over during the Big Market fight.

>>94249838
>Valerian just had a lot of energy to it.

How are you defining "energy"? The leads both looked and sounded fucking bored the entire film.

>>94255237
Fair enough question.
For me, it's the exuberance in the set-pieces.
Stuff like switching back and forth from Valerian running from actual threats to a madman in an empty desert - or really the forward momentum of the chases.

That's kinda all I was expecting from this movie, and it delivered.

Also, I like Dane Dehaan and think he did a pretty good job in A Cure For Wellness, another goofy genre movie, so that goodwill carried over here.

Haven't watched the movie but I have read the comics and that guy doesn't look anything like Valerian. Valerian is supposed to be a big dick space hero, not a sad dweeb.

>>94247255
>Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets was a much better film than
It's nearly impossible to end this sentence without lying.

>>94255473
Neither Valerian nor Laureline look like their comic counterparts.

>>94255572

At least Laureline is red hair dye away from being an okay pass. That "Valerian" requires heavy plastic surgery, testosterone injections, a year in the gym and four inch lifts in his shoes.

>>94247835
Why are you chiming in if you haven't seen the movie?

>>94252990

>170 million loss
>Even more when you factor in advertising

CARA DELEMEME BTFO.

>>94256050
It's a bigger flop than Fembusters holy shit.

>>94256050
Good. I fucking hate Delememe with a passion