On Trans Comics

Can you type that out in a more legible and less assblasted way?

No one mentions it here but there is the

End comic

But it's in space

>>94197981
any good trans/queer comics?
there

>>94197959
Transsexuals are incapable of producing good comics because they are mentally imbalanced. There isn't a point to making a comic about a group of people that encompasses less than 1% of the population anyway. It's a story that doesn't need to be told.

Not in trans stuff specifically, but I do feel like there is some pushback against the idea of personal taste being a ~problematic~ indicator. Might just be that the young tumblr generation is growing up and realizing they don't need to ostracize people based on entertainment unless someone is being actually harmful to others?

But I think either way it would probably need to come from within the community. Like Boondocks works because it's a black guy speaking from his experiences rather than someone from the outside trying to get into shit they don't understand.

>>94198028
No

>>94198043
A lot of mentally imbalanced people make good work, this post doesn't make sense. We like Grant Morrison and he's insane.

>>94198043
And what percentage of the population can fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes? You are retarded. Stories aren't told because they can be universally appreciated. That would be so boring. I read stories about people who aren't me because I'm boring ! A trans super hero or even cool villain would be fine to me.

>>94198129
There's fun crazy and then there's self-mutilation crazy.

Im trans and working on a webcomic. But its horror. And has nothing to do with lgbt stuff. Not even really a little. Ive never wanted that part of me to be DEFINING or anything so I just do other things. Theres enough others out there who want to do biographical comics or what-not, they can have at it. Id rather draw monsters and shit

>>94198136
Good fucking luck getting normies to relate to someone who'd solve a software problem by mangling the hardware.

>>94198028
What kind of comics do you like?

>>94198180
If it doesn't get too edgy tonally it can be fine.

>>94198204
Makes sense.

>>94198217
My understanding is that not all of them do hormones and/or surgery. But I'm not a doctor and I've never researched the full details of care.

>>94198180
Like Van Gogh?

>>94198180
Van Gogh cut off his own ear

>>94198217
Sounds like a personal problem. I don't care one way or another. All movie stars get work done, do why is it evil when common folk want it done? I just can't bring myself to care

>>94197959
plenty of queer that are enjoyable, dunno any trans
I'd like to read some yuri comics too but haven't seen any good ones from the west desu

>>94198282
People call Bombshells a yuri comic but I don't know if it follows the same kind of themes.

>>94197959
>>94198028
The ONLY one to come to mind. The ONLY one is Meg Mogg & Owl

>>94197959
You're so fucking mad

>>94198307
Hanselmann isn't trans you dumbass.

Sarah Horrocks, Inio Asano and Sophie Campbell are the only trans artists I can think of but they're all pretty good though.

>>94198204
goid point, we just don't know how many creators out there are part of the BBQ, many go by a pen name too
also

>horror
>rather draw monsters
excellent taste senpai

>>94198320
Whatever he is, it sure isn't normal.

And there are trans characters in the stories

>>94198321
Inio Asano is not trans. Sophie Campbell is good for art. Agreed about Sarah Horrocks.

>>94198282
Wandering Son is probably your #1 trans manga in terms of Western exposure.

>>94198293
if it has yuri romance in it anywhere, then I guess it'd count.

>>94198349
>Wandering Son
still an eastern one, not a western comic

>>94198413
Anon said "dunno any trans", I'm not saying it's Western. I might have misunderstood the post.

I'm trying to think of other trans artists I know of. There's like Annie Mok, Erin Nations.

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>>94198129
Grant Morrison just does drugs for a temporary boost to his cognitive thinking. It all makes sense to him at the time and the stories are more memorable for it.

>>94198136
A trans super hero or even cool villain would be fine to me.
Both trans hero or villain would be too preoccupied with soap boxing about social politics to care about telling a good story. I'm not sure what you think a trans superhero could offer to a story that a traditional superhero could not. More whining about people being mean on twitter perhaps? Would their supervillain be bathrooms?

>>94198277
>>94198263

Van Gogh tries to achieve true beauty through his works. These comics only try to replicate their creator. Very few people can pull off vanity and egotism in art successfully.

>>94198482
You are so fucking butthurt holy shit

>>94198278
>All movie stars get work done
But they still believe themselves to be the same gender, the same sex, they were born with. That's the difference.

>>94198043
Thanks for your professional opinion, doctor.

>>94198502
Whatever you say, pham. Nice job disproving my point, btw. Oh wait.

>>94197959
There should be a comic about a tranny continuing to go to therapy after the surgery and slowly realizes it just isn't the same thing as being a woman and kills itself. There needs to be awareness of this non treatments outcome.

>>94198516
Yeah if you're some faggot Christian or asshole that thinks that matters for whatever reason. It's not my body so I don't care.

>>94197959

Here's an idea:

>Sports comics/manga
>Team based sport (pick whatever you want, doesn't matter)
>Female league of course
>Yuri undertones (or overtones)
>Reach nationals
>Opposing team has several MTF trans
>NOT the boipussy-traps type of trans, more like Bruce Jenner kind of trans
>have them lose

>>94198485
I mean the woman anon mentions here >>94198321 Sarah Horrocks, is as basically as good an artistic critical voice as I've found in modern comics. I think she would even agree with your post.

>>94198482
It doesn't have to add anything to be a different perspective that might be interesting to read. But I'd agree that villain and hero in the same book becomes difficult. Not because of politics (you can easily avoid PSA nonsense in a story) but because you're probably not giving enough screentime to both to understand the full character so one would likely end up feeling stereotypical.

>>94197959
Isn't there a bitchy trans character on roller skates who is unlikable?

>>94198534
This is the same argument as saying "no one is allowed to be an art critic unless they are professional artists themselves."

Just think about that.

>>94198542
Trans people are people. Do you think a character that isn't a straight white male would just whine about whatever it is they are instead of being a complex person or character??? That's the most boring way to look at shit

>>94198516
You haven't given a difference.

>>94198557
>Yeah
Yeah what? What are you agreeing with?

>>94198607
English not your first language ?

>>94198574

Yeah. Drawn by Willis.

>>94198485
I'm sure you've read lots of these nebulous trans comics to make such a sweeping statement.

>>94198578
No it's not, it's saying someone isn't qualified to be a doctor unless they actually are a doctor. Or to keep with your example, to say someone shouldn't really be an art critic if their only experience with art is looking at pictures of paintings on the internet.

You can go ahead and make whatever stupid statements you want, but when you have two equally unqualified people saying "trans people are mentally ill" and "trans people are not mentally ill", there's no reason whatsoever to take either ones' opinion seriously.

>>94198581
Trans people are people with identity issues. And those identity issues will always come before any other story elements when discussing the topic in any medium. They will always be preoccupied with their victim complex before anything else.

>>94198592
Whatever you say.

>>94198676
>Trans people are people with identity issues. And those identity issues will always come before any other story elements when discussing the topic in any medium.
How do you know?

>>94198649
If trans people are not mentally ill, explain why the suicide rate is so high among their community. Are you going to blame the mean old internet for that?

>>94198676
Nice generalizations. Any other interesting opinions you'd like to post before mom brings your afternoon tendie plate?

>>94198581

A complex character is not what a lot of transexuals want though. Any flaw the writer gives them would be considered 'problematic' because apparently 'bad depictions of LGBT people' is as violent as sentencing them to death.

>>94198676
So the trans anon who said they want to draw monsters and don't care about that shit was lying?

People are not as simple as you think.

>>94198714
This I can agree with. Many people in the LGBT community, specifically tumblypoo, are crying babies who think everything is wrong and bad if it isn't saintly. I'm sick of it as a queer person myself. Why can't we be allowed flaws or to be assholes ?

>>94198714
It might not be the accepted tumblr opinion, but I've absolutely seen people - bi, gay, trans, even just plain ordinary straight women - expressing a desire to have bad characters of their representation rather than fully politically correct 2nice4conflict thing you can end up with.

>>94198714
This is not a concern limited to LGBT. It also happens with female characters and racial minorities.

But the people who criticize are generally not "a lot" of any audience and others will appreciate it if you write characters with depth.

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>>94198687
Because it has happened every time a trans person appears in a story. It has never been handled well.

>>94198342
The only trans character I can think of in the comic is Booger, and they're more of a side character than anything.

Though there was one really good story involving her and Megg.

>>94198709
>criticizes a generalization
>makes a generalization
Low effort.

>>94198782
Maybe you should read good books instead of bad ones and not assume the bad ones are wholly representative

>>94198820
Where are these good trans books then?

>>94198782
Every single one? Every single time a trans character has appeared in any story? Or just the ones you've read?

>>94198844
Name one trans character that has NOT declared their trans status as if it even matters to a story.

>>94198875
Isn't OP specifically looking for trans stories though?

>>94198838
Try reading some Morrison stuff, though he does simple cross-dressers more.

>>94198765
>>94198772

I can see why too. It validates them being people than an "other". It also shows that they'd love to see bad people who so happen to share their minority status get their just desserts rather than get lumped with them.

>>94198129
Grant Morrison is saner than any of us will ever be.

>>94198919
Yeah, there's a reason Jessica Cruz is becoming a fan favorite while America is skirting cancellation. Not necessarily about being relatable, but that "realness" is important in forging a connection with readers.

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>>94197959

>"Trans and queer people are making the most original and interesting webcomics out there"

Anyone who says any group of people are doing the best or most creative of something lacks any form of vision themselves.

All groups of people are capable of making great contributions to everything.

>>94199012
I think less literally they probably mean the general "people who have different experiences can tell different stories and variety is generally good" but hyperbole is king so it comes out retarded.

>>94197959
>I had someone tell me once on a dumb twitter rant

Look, here's a tip for you.

Just walk away and forget this shit. It doesn't matter. Stop being so triggered over some dumb shit some rando spouted on social media.

>>94198919
I come back to this sometimes on why it's important, even in terms of how you relate to something personally, that it has a wider range than just whatever the pop culture talking points are:

http://www.comicosity.com/comic-love-ostrander-yales-suicide-squad-me/

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>>94197959
>i'd like to read some trans comics, any suggestions or examples?

I like 'Trans Girls Next Door' (pic related). The only others I an think of are 'Assigned Male' (fucking awful preachy bullshit) and that one with the red haired girl, the title of which I can't remember (fluctuates between okay and preachy)

>>94197959
Trans and queer people ARE making the most original and interesting webcomics out there.
On the condition that you're trans and queer.

It's about target audience. If someone makes a comic about Warhammer 40K and you're a fan of it, you will already have a strong emotional connection to the subject matter. But if you're not, you're gonna look at it puzzled, and say 'meh'.
Trying to read e.g. trans comics without understanding what it's like to be trans (which can only be obtained by being trans, duh) is kinda like trying to read, I don't know - Final Crisis without even knowing who is Batman.


Comics like Assigned Male or Manic Nightmare Pixie Girl aren't made for people like you, they're made for trans people, and come with a pre-built tropes and emotional connection that a cis/het person is literally incapable of understanding.

I recommend going on Facebook and opening one of those "Farming Memes" or "Chemistry memes" or "Clam fishing memes" pages designed for a specific proffession you're not in. See at how many you will laugh at. My guess is - not many.

That's also the part that makes /co/ lash out and call them shit (like retard in >>94198043
does), it's your inner subconcious hatred of everything that isn't for you. Nobody likes to be excluded. People are laughing all around you but you don't get the joke - obviously, the joke is shit! The joke sucks! These people are stupid!
It's only human to behave like that.

>>94198568
Op here, lol

>>94199041

> "people who have different experiences can tell different stories and variety is generally good"

I didn't really get that vibe from the comment. The original comment was 'X is making THE MOST ORIGINAL and INTERESTING webcomics out there'. It had too many definitive absolutes to be read as 'people can and should be able to write from different perspectives than the mainstream because the key to innovation is perspectives' in my opinion.

>>94199130
>Comics like Assigned Male or Manic Nightmare Pixie Girl aren't made for people like you, they're made for trans people, and come with a pre-built tropes and emotional connection that a cis/het person is literally incapable of understanding.

what's the point of making a comic as preachy as assigned male if it's aimed at people who are already converted?

>>94199163
No, OP *said* that this was the original comment. He could've misunderstood that, he could've misrepresented the argument, or simply made that shit up. Be more skeptical next time, this is 4chan. People lie all the time, ESPECIALLY to represent groups they dislike in a bad light.

>>94199163
Well agree to disagree I guess. I don't see that you're wrong, but it's not how I take in those kinds of comments.

>>94199130
Op here, yea you make a great point and part of the conversation i had about this has this topic in mind. It just seems like things like this could be translated to an audience that isn't trans or queer. It all comes down to the level of empathy of the reader and i think i'm willing to adventure into the stories and experiences these people want to share.
Either way i've seen a couple of suggestions here and i'll give them a good, open minded read.

>>94199202
Enjoyment? Groups laughing at in-jokes are nothing new.

>>94199202
Honestly, I would put Assigned Male on par with Chick Tracts. Both are preaching to the choir, completely bat-shit insane, and leave the person reading it with a negative view of said organization.

>>94199202
So they can pat themselves on the back.

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>>94197959
I mean, does it count if the comic is made by a trans person but isn't about trans people at all?

>>94199202
Ever seen a liberal comedian make jokes about how shitty Republicans are, or vice versa? Or a black comedian talking about how awful white people are? Or any single fucking /pol/tard joking about Jews?
And funnily enough, people clap. People laugh at these jokes, because their purpose isn't to convince people.

They come across as preachy to you because you think they're trying to convince you to do something. But actually they're trying to be clever or funny, ASSUMING that you already have that position and will agree with them.

For example, to you it might seem that - >>94199093
is a comic trying to convince you about how arbitrary gendering dogs is, and gendering dogs is bad or something.
But it's not. It's a silly gag comic about how author finds herself distracted/daydreaming by gender bullshit that she has to deal with every day, even when she's literally about to fuck that guy.

But without having a lived reality of being a trans person and getting distracted by gender bullshit, the joke might be lost on you, and you might think it's preachy.

>>94199338
>your precious god-emperor

Sorry, typo.

>>94199321
Or how about the simple fact that the joke itself isn't funny.

>>94199093
Op here.
Do you mean, Good Bye to Halos? Because the creator is the person who made the statement i mentioned, i went ahead and read her comic but it seemed to be a generic hero story with the only interesting use of trans characters being that they can't be pursued after some time because of the sex change. Apart from that it just has queer and trans characters for the sake of fanservice.

>>94199296
yes, thanks for the suggestion. It's the point of view that counts the most

>>94199362
I think it's funny in a "the stupid things that distract us" way. Just a little overwritten.

>>94199403
I tried to make it as simple as possible.

>>94199617
I think >>94199501 pretty much holds up your point too, putting aside that OP is an absolute faggot for bringing their social media butthurt to 4chan - the most interesting take *to them* is probably from those writers.

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>>94199321
So yeah, it's a joke about how author gets no respite from gender even when she's trying to get her shit pushed in - but it might not SEEM like that to a bystander.

That's btw why trans comics will seem more 'interesting' and 'original' to trans audience - because they talk about topics that other comics don't (because they're not made by trans people). In that light, of COURSE trans and queer comics will seem more original to us- because 'original' just means unique and doing what others won't.

Consider - remember Bechdel test? Many straight people thought strip it originates from was this was some deep commentary about sexism in movie industry, and used Bechdel test as a real metric of movie quality.

But what Allison Bechdel likely meant was a simple joke about how hard it's to relate to movie industry as a lesbian, where it's hard to find a movie where two women talk about something other than men - let alone finding a lesbian story. How a lesbian is supposed to relate to female characters who only care about men? Rotfl, roll curtains!
That was the joke, but it might SEEM preachy to a bystander who's not 'in' on the joke.

As for why trans and queer comics seem preachy and political - well, I'm a trans lesbian and can tell you - our life, existence is a political matter. Some politicians wants us to not exist, some wants to 'support' us for brownie points with liberals, some believe we are the devil - queer experience will involve politics because politics decide out lives, be it medical transition laws, gay marriage or recent bullshit like the Trump military thing. So if we make jokes about our lives, they will seem political to an outsider, but to us they're just. Jokes.

>tfw you always wanted to go into animation since you were a kid
>now since you're trans and in the industry if anyone were to find out people would either automatically criticize every thing you make as trying to corrupt the youth even if it isn't remotely related to LGBT stuff or applaud your work as the best thing ever when it might not be because libtards think trans people can do no wrong

>>94197959
>trans and queer people are making the most original and interesting webcomics out ther

I saw a thread of trans people complaining that most trans made comics were just bland cute 'I have an identity' comics that are afraid to to anything but share positivity

Guess what, I was right in >>94199212
Op DID misunderstood.
>>94199501
See, that's... VERY different from what you said in the OP actually.
First, it's WOMEN and queer people. Women are 50% of the population, and do write a lot.
Second, it's not saying that women and queer people write better - they say that SOME OF THE BEST WORK in the genre was LIKELY done by women and queer people. That's obviously correct, women are half of all people, and queer people are ten percent on top of that - with about ~55% of general population "women and queer people" are very likely to have written some great stuff.

In OP you presented this tweet as a SUBJECTIVE opinion. But this is actually OBJECTIVE opinion, and, if you believe that women and queer people are as good writers as men and straight people - objectively true.

>>94199658
yea, you're right. No need to bring that up. My bad

>>94199739
>or applaud your work as the best thing ever when it might not be because libtards think trans people can do no wrong

I feel like getting into every industry involves some cronyism bullshit and it's not necessarily wrong to use it as your way in if you have to. Of course tokenism won't feel great and as an artist it might suck to not know the true value of your work, but at least you'd be getting paid and eventually you'd have enough of a track record to get hired on merit or at least name alone instead of bullshit.

But I'm just an ambitionless NEET so maybe this is just nonsense, idk.

>>94197959
By trans comics do you mean comics about trans people, containing trans people, or made by trans people ?

>>94199783
Yea, good point. I definitely was paraphrasing and should have dug up the conversation before writing about it but the sentiment is similar and the desire to read these works is still the most importing thing out of that conversation. Either way great point.

>>94199857
mainly by, but all work

>>94199783
By which I mean - objectively, if we assume that a) women and queer people are as good writers as straight men
and b) both groups write about the same
and c) women are 50% of population, queer people are about 10%, there's 50% overlap of lesbians and bi women - so group 'women and queer people' will have about 55% of world's population (so a majority!)

- then by necessity, "women and queer people" will be responsible for 55% of all literature. Not necessarily PUBLISHED or KNOWN, mind you - maybe it's sitting in someone's shelf or has been lost to time - but it's been written. Which the tweet posts - it's WRITTEN, not PUBLISHED.

If 55% of all literature was written by queer people and women, and if they're as good as writers straight men - then about 55% percent, so majority, of BEST literature will also be written by women and queer people. Of course, so will be 55% or worst literature, and 55% or mediocre literature - but tweet isn't talking about those.

This tweet is technically and statistically, as per my knowledge of modern science, objectively correct.

>>94199938
Yea, that's logical

>>94199938
>and b) both groups write about the same

I believe this is the flaw in the logic, at least in percentage of work professionally published. But if we include personal writing for fun it should likely hold.

>>94199658
You seem pretty butthurt over OP supposedly being butthurt

Just sayin.

>>94198028
Kill six billion demons- White Chain. Happy?

>>94198043
mentally unbalanced describes a lot of artists and yet good art gets made, and why is it not a story that needs to be told just because it effects a small group of people? that doesnt make much sense to me.

>>94200034

yea, thanks for the suggestion

>>94197959
Once medical science can actually change someone's sex, are we still going to get all this discourse about "the trans experience"?
Because honestly, Id just like to be able to get the body I want and then forget about it.

unless you're seeing them naked, they perform a biological function not available to the sex they appear as, or it's outright confirmed, there's a plausible deniability to any character's transness. Most of the time there's no good reason to throw a canon confirmed transsexual into the story so it's usually used for pure pandering

>>94200205

>Most of the time there's no good reason to throw a canon confirmed transsexual into the story so it's usually used for pure pandering

These rules people make up for anyone who isn't a straight white guy to not be "pandering" are ridiculous.

Writers don't need to justify the characters they put into their stories.

>>94198485
Sounds like yoy are just looking for an excuse to hate a hypothetical trans comic

>>94199888
including, there's Miss Don't Touch Me with Jo.
by... there's no point in parading that fact unless you're making an autobiographical work or want to pander the LGBT crowd.

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>>94197959
Jeff/Jess Johnson (RIP) made some great fucking comics

>>94200176
that would be ideal

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I just want a sexy comic about a lady with a penis, is that so much to ask?

Where is the western equivalent of Poison? Fuck, it feels like both sides of the trans debate hates dick-girls.

>>94200493
This will be Brandon Graham's next comic.

>>94200294
If it isn't important to the story, chances are it won't come up. That doesn't make the person cis or trans, because we don't know. For all you know these "straight white guy" characters you speak of could have vaginas, but there's no reason to say it in a story that isn't specifically about trans people. I didn't mention any rules of pandering, but you know pandering when you see it unless you're simply hypersensitive to the mere existence of these characters. Writers don't need to justify shit, but people are going to call it how they see it.

>>94200176
Personally I have no issue with someone wanting to change their body in a way that makes them feel more comfortable or even calling them whatever they want to be called. The only part that annoys me is when people use it as as a jumping off point to change the definition of things. Can I just be of the opinion that sex/gender is a binary and that some people just mentally disconnect from that instead of saying "they ARE the opposite sex"?. After years of trying to be of this opinion I guess I've finally come to the conclusion that I'll always see you as a guy who is mentally predisposed to be a girl or vice-versa rather than someone who IS a girl and just looks like a guy.

I can respect someone's belief's and practices without believing it myself, right?

>>94200493
Isn't poison only a dick-girl BECAUSE of America?

>>94200599
I thought she was post-op in America?

>>94200809
I thought the entire idea was that they put in the handbook that she was a man because you couldn't show a girl getting her shit punched in in an american game. But I might have that backwards.

>>94197959
To be fair, Sonichu IS one of the most interesting webcomics of all time. Though that's more of an outlier.

>>94200493
Ironically, the person who OP argued with, actually draws trans/queer porn.
>>94199501
Post is deleted now, but I recognized the avatar - I think that's the porn artist droolcutie who made the statement OP misinterpreted.
http://droolcutie.tumblr.com/
Also hidden truth - trans women might hate dickgirls and futa as a concept officially, but we still jack off to this. Noone will admit that though.

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>>94201000
Oh wow.

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>know a trans girl
>they present themselves as female online and just post art

I thought the whole point of being trans was to pass off as the other sex without making a big fuss about it?

Doesn't announcing you're trans kind of invalidate the whole point of being trans in the first place?

I know a trans webcomic author. Their comic's actually not bad, it has some flaws, mostly pacing-related but it has a pretty decent fanbase and I wouldn't call it bad at all. But the more you know about the author and who and what they are, the more you grow to hate the comic, because you start to understand why certain little visual and storytelling things are done and it's all related to the author's trans identity and their gender bending fetish (which they try to pretend they don't have because gender bending is transphobic, dontcha know, even though the whole gimmick of the comic is the MC turning into a girl), and you can start to see a downhill slope forming where their identity is more and more dictating the comic and it's only going to get worse.

>>94201420
What's the comic?

>>94201564
It is up to us to find out.

>>94201406

>I thought the whole point of being trans was to pass off as the other sex without making a big fuss about it?
>Doesn't announcing you're trans kind of invalidate the whole point of being trans in the first place?

Most sensible trans-people just want to be left the hell alone and be allowed to live their lives.

It's the septum pierced, hair-dyed, ugly fashion, glasses wearing screaming "Trannies" that ruin it for everyone else.

>>94200314
>Sounds like yoy

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>>94198548
This is actually a great idea
>Main character start as a patriarchy blaming self-hating white liberal gay tumblr user
>Influenced by internet personalities and his feminist friends, decides to transact
>Does
>Slowly realizes it's not the same thing and miss having a penis
>Is ugly/doesn't look right
>Not even capable of succeeding with the "Feminine Penis" crowd
>Sex life: Null
>For someone who put up with messing with his own biology and mutilated his body just to satisfy sexual urges it must be devastating
>Commits suicide
>His legacy: Just another number used to blame the patriarchy and indicate transphobia by people like the ones who influenced him and himself
>Not supposed to be a "Kek! Liberulz am I right guyz?! lolololol Pepeface xD" but an actual social critique with very serious and melancholic aspects