Why isn't Shazam more popular?

the real question is why isnt mary marvel more popular?

>>94130388
Because DC worked to bury him for decades only for new nostalgic writers to bring him back anyway but now theres a whole generational gap of people who didn't know who he is so there isn't the same level of "iconic" other heroes have.

If he had a TV show in the 80s or early 90s with a toyline he could have been an A lister.

>>94130388
>Shazam
His name is, and will always be, Captain Marvel.
Fuck that ugly dyke.
Fuck marvel.
Billy is a more interesting and developed character as a child then she is as a full grown woman.

>>94130388
Why would you expect the Wizard to be popular?

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>>94130388
>I feel like the DC writers put almost no effort into his books, they give him no good villains except Black Adam who is a Top 5 overall DC villain, but that is all he gots!
Huh? Mr. Mind, Black Adam and Sivana have been huge villains in the DCU for a long time. Marvel Jr, Mary Marvel, Black Adam, Isis and Osiris were all major characters up until Final Crisis.

And Cap hasn't had that many books but they've always put their top talent on him: Roy Thomas, Alex Ross, Jeff Smith, Jerry Ordway, Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, there's not a single Captain Marvel work post-Crisis that didn't have a big name on it.

Probably the only weird thing is that he got a big push around the time of the Injustice fighting game, which was when the movie finally got into pre-production, and then it immediately petered out. The popular theory is that Johns and Gary Frank currently have "dibs" on him but haven't had time to actually get a project out, and they don't trust anyone else to do it.

They need to just put Jeff Parker and Doc Shaner on it and let him get big again.

>>94130388
I got some reasons. 1. writers focus on his "flying brick" powerset instead of his wisdom,lighting powers more. 2. he has no notable villians besides black adam and docter sivanna.

>>94130544
>blaming Marvel when it's DC who stopped Fawcett from making anymore Captain Marvel comics in the first place and allowing Marvel to grab the trademark

>>94130544
I don't understand why you're getting so upset over Carol when she didn't even exist at the time that DC lost the trademark to Marvel.

>>94130765
Jeff Parker seems like a good fit for most of the "just launch it already" DC books.

Captain Marvel, JSA, and Legion of Super-Heroes would all be great under him.

>>94130921
Isn't Parker just doing Future Quest right now? It pains me so much that he isn't being hired for more.

I wish he was doing the Terrifics instead of Lemire.

>>94130921
They're also all things Johns is notoriously protective of. Coincidence?!

>>94130980
Parker on anything usually feels like Johns at his best.
Aquaman made that really clear.

Johns's Aquaman was pretty cool, then Parker takes his place and the whole thing is instantly kicked up a notch.
Fucking absurd that they replaced him with Bunn, and so soon.

>>94130544
It's DCs fault for suing and killing Fawcett because they were butthurt that Billy sold more than Supes and then sitting on the name and not printing his book until the trademark ran out

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>>94130388
Because Marvelman is better in every way.

Get out of the way faggot, real hero coming through!

>>94130388
>And he is NOT A FUCKING COPY OF SUPERMAN! You MotherFuckers you!
No, he pretty blatantly was intended as such. Luckly his comics had new ideas from the start and went in a fairly different direction from the start and he was basically a silver age character born in the golden age.

>>94131054
Nobody fucking cares anymore, Marvel.

>>94131054
I thought it was Miracleman

>>94131054
Moore's interpretation of him made for a stellar self-contained story with a clear beginning and end, but beyond that you can't do much without getting into edge-for-the-sake-of-edge trash like "look mom, no face!" Sentry/Void, who himself was just a poorman's Marvel Man handled by a worse writer.

>>94131195
Marvel got spooked by the Cannibal Corpse cover art scenes and wanted to distance themselves from the comic, so they changed his name.

>>94130388
Calm down, he's getting a DCEU movie in 2019 before other characters.

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REAL question of the thread:

Why the fuck did they rename him 'Shazam'? That's the name of the wizard. Why not name him Captain Thunder, like he was in Flashpoint? I thought that was a pretty good moniker

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Have you guys read Alan Moore's twilight of the superheroes? Is it available anywhere? I know Dc doesn't want anyone to read it, but I know it should be somewhere.

>>94130388
People don't like magic

>>94131466
Because they'd already been releasing all of his comics under the "Shazam" names for decades and thus it has more brand name value.

>>94131466
Easy question, they couldn't use Captain Marvel but Shazam was a name/word people were already familiar with and strongly associated with the character. Captain Thunder? Means nothing to the masses.

Captain Shazam would've been better though.

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>>94131466
>Captain Thunder
thats a shitty name, it sounds like something a kid would-
wait no that actually works. I kinda like it

>>94131522
Or just keep calling him Captain Marvel.

Kids in the 70's had no problem with it.
My mother still remembers his name from watching the TV show that ended four decades ago.

>>94130388
Not enough cartoons about him nowadays. That's what gets you popularity.

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>>94131466
I'm pretty sure "Captain Thunder" was his original name anyways, at least in the concept stage of his development. I've always kind of had a soft spot for that moniker too, just in the fact that it kinda highlights his whimsical golden age roots, and like >>94131561 said; I could plausibly imagine a kid thinking up that name themselves.

They probably don't want him to outshine Supes like how Wally isn't allowed to outshine Barry.

>>94131275
Well, that's fucking wrong since Gaiman continued the series.

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I absolutely fucking love Captain Marvel. Especially in Young Justice and other incarnations where its hilariously obvious its just a kid piloting a Superman body.

That and I love how he yells "SHAZAM!" with like the echoing effect and everything. And he attacks with his transformation sequence!

>He transforms by being hit by lightning
>Sometimes he picks people up and letting them get hit instead.

Its like if Sailor Moon picked up her backdrop and beat someone with it.

>>94131951
I'm just waiting for the /ss/ situations he might get in.

>>94130388
1. hes canonically stronger than superman, and DC higher ups dont really want their main draw being shown as weaker
2. theyve been moving away from magic for a while now, and moving more onto space stuff
3. hes more important to the canon than he was before, but shows up a LOT less
4. black adam is being shown as more of an anti-hero recently so theres nobody to really stand up to him so it would require actual original content that would be interesting to draw him back in
5. theres no room for him on any of the main teams, and hes far too strong to be on a B. list team

Any good comics with this guy?
I loved his introduction in the 2011 Justice league comics and thought he was neat.

>>94130905
He was Captain Marvel until the new52.

>>94130544
>>94130722
the wizard is dead you apes, he's the new guardian of the rock and the name was passed to him

There's some big shit coming up and Captain Marvel will play a major role in. I'm not an insider of anything but it's gon b gud

>>94132356
the fact theyre bringing out a shazam movie AND a black adam movie, i believe it

>>94132290
His name was but DC didn't hold the trademark. So if they made toys or movies of him they could never put his name on the cover. It was changed with the New 52 because they realized with superhero movies being the new hotness they couldn't afford to market a character they didn't own the trademark to.

DC would have changed the name at that point even if Marvel hadn't had a living character called Captain Marvel in decades.

>>94131091
Yeah. I love Captain Marvel but this guy has the right of it; he's a kid who turns into Superman. That was the entire premise and it (quickly) spun into something to separate it from the source, especially with the angle of Billy gifting his powers to others. Add in a talking tiger, a shitheaded mad scientist that you will *never* have a problem rooting against, magical hijinx and all the classic elements leaves Shazam/Marvel/Billy standing on their own. Shit, don't they even have a bunny Marvel?

I think Captain Thunder as a moniker's nice, since like some other anon said it's something a kid would come up with, but unless it's failed in the past and I don't know about it, I really kinda think that going back to the original point --he's a kid who can become Superman-- would *remain* a great way to bring in an audience even today.

>no Golden Age Shazam omnibus

>Why isn't Shazam more popular?

- He grates with the modern DC shared universe.
- Writers that want to write the character just want to recapture the nostalgic atmosphere of his classic tales.
- The 30+ year gap in his publication history from the 1940's tot he 1970s means that the character never grew or evolved outside of his golden age storytelling, making him difficult to fit into a modern shared universe because no one knows how Captain Marvel "works" in a shared universe.
- Writers that try to reinvent the character are usually rejected by fans.
- He got renamed "Shazam" and that is one of the most awful superhero names ever.
- Geoff Johns's retake on the character, which is the mandated canon version, would be perfectly charming as an ongoing, but the giant Marvel Family Power Rangers team WHO ALL LIVE IN THE SAME HOUSE is a nightmare to write and other writers don't know how to deal with them and are afraid to innovate solutions because they're Johns's baby.
- Captain Marvel Junior's classic stories were all revenge fantasies with heavily racist overtones. ALL OF THEM. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
- Captain Marvel is in the public domain which means that management isn't really behind making the concept work without heavy revisioning so they 'own' it.
- Existing Captain Marvel fans don't want him revisioned.

It's a chicken-and-the-egg problem. No one knows how to start changing the character, so no one does it.

>>94131493
>Armageddon has arrived

>>94132753
I would love to buy a print version of the Monster Society of Evil arc.

>>94132670
It has failed in the past, twice: before DC had the rights to Captain Marvel they actually had a Captain Marvel standin named Willie Fawcett AKA Captain Thunder, this was actually what the Flashpoint version was based on and parts of it were carried over into New 52 Shazam.

Then in the early 80's they were planning on changing Captain Marvel's name to Captain Thunder.

The biggest problem is that Captain Thunder a really generic name that is similar to a multitude of pulp characters and film serial characters and even DC characters like Johnny Thunder, but it's probably too generic to trademark, if it's even available as a trademark. I'm sure every possible variation of "Captain ____" has been trademarked or attempted to be trademarked at this point.

So you have a problem here of whether you should put the character's actual name on the cover but that you still don't own the trademark to, or to put a word that isn't the character's name but that you DO own the trademark to and that at least has some name recognition value with the Shazam/Isis show that was popular in the 70's.

Ultimately DC decided to compromise and change his name to Shazam, thereby making his name something you CAN trademark. This is actually a very good business decision in an age where movies, toys, merchandise etc. is more important than the comics themselves, it's just bad for fans of the character and his history.

>>94130388
Because his name is Captain Marvel.

>>94130437
I remember as a kid I really wanted to see her on the Young Justice team since World without Grownups but she was never used like that. DC prefers using her as sexual prey.

>>94130388

He is simply overshadowed by Supes.

He can never be the hero he is destined to be while on Earth (1? A? Prime? I dont even know anymore). Put Captain Marvel back on his own earth as that earth's premiere superhero

Not to mention he's supposed to be a big part of the magic side of the DCU yet gets relegated to just "Thunderbolt using superstrong hero" very frequently

>>94132282
Jeff Smith's miniseries is GOAT tier

>>94133436
Same here

>he has one of the best superhero and origin stories along with a unique perspective that no other superhero can really boast.
And he is NOT A FUCKING COPY OF SUPERMAN!

(YOU)
(YOU)
(YOU)

>>94132833
>Captain Marvel Junior's classic stories were all revenge fantasies with heavily racist overtones. ALL OF THEM. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
How bad are they? Also Captain Marvel Jr. is a terrible name

>>94131493
https://archive.org/stream/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes_djvu.txt
>It had all started with little Billy Batson and his problem. There he was, unwilling to give
up being human, still spending a lot of time in a child's body. The unfortunate thing was
that though little Billy's body didn't age, his mind did. Trapped in a child's body but
afflicted with adult needs, Billy went quietly... well, bats, I suppose. A lot of the problems
were sexual. Physically, Billy was not capable of normal sex and thus pretty soon began

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>>94132833
>Captain Marvel is in the public domain

so how does that work? can i write and draw stories about him, but can't call him shazam?

>>94131493
>>94132888
>https://archive.org/stream/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes_djvu.txt

?

>>94130388
Not enough kids wanted to self insert as a superhero I guess. They wanted to read about Superheroes, not read about being a Superhero.

Ok, so I havent read something of Shazam ever; Can someone recommend me something? Preferibly recent and with Adam

>>94136419
You can't use the names "Captain Marvel" or "Shazam" on the cover and DC will still probably sue you. You'd also have to hew close to the 40s designs that are PD

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>>94136520
Multiversity: Thunderworld and pic related

>>94136461
That's what Jr was for anyway. Nobody wants to magically transform into their dad.

>>94130388
Well for starters you put a picture of Captain marvel and not Shazam.

>>94130506
This.
When a character disappears for a generation it's gonna cause problems.

>>94132290
The funny thing is he is only shazam on earth-0
Everywhere else he is still called captain marvel.

>>94130388
He was more popular than superman until DC sued his publisher

>>94130865
DC didn't stop Fawcett you dumb wikifag, Fawcett went down on its own at the same time the rest of the Golden age died
>>94131466

Captain thunder was his alternative name since the 70's. Captain marvel fans would had accepted it, Shazam on the other hand is the choice of lawyers and wb's bitchboy.

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>>94136784
Good point. Now that we've got that figured out: Why isn't Shazam more popular?

>>94136419
>so how does that work? can i write and draw stories about him,
You can do that now because of fair use. Even if you used Shazam, you could get away with it. The only problem is that you couldn't make money off of the names, for obvious reasons.

>>94130388
Because copyright bullshit.

>>94136903
i would absolutely be okay with making shazam black if shaq played adult billy

>>94132656
Yes, they couldn't, they couldn't just put him as the name of the book. Fuck off Johnsfag

What are the new names for Mary Marvel and Marvel Jr?

I remember Marvel Jr. calling himself King Shazam in the nu52 but everything else was barely expanded upon. We haven't seen the Shazam family since their debut story

>>94136883
>DC didn't stop Fawcett you dumb wikifag, Fawcett went down on its own at the same time the rest of the Golden age died
DC literally sued Fawcett and stopped them from publishing Captain Marvel comics, you ignorant fuck. Brush up on your history.

>>94136987
>We haven't seen the Shazam family since their debut story
And it's bullshit I liked that family

>>94136860
this DC knows he'd be more popular than Supes if he has given more exposure so the do their best to keep him out of the limelight

>>94136903
That's Kazam, ya idjit

>>94136627
Not Shazam, those are captain marvel stories.

>>94137017
Didio said the comic con they were still finding the correct team for Shazam and that he's a priority

>>94136974
English is clearly not your first language, or you're too lazy to even read the post. Either way, fuck off.

>>94136992
No, DC never accomplished that and Captain marvel was published until 1953, DC sued in 41, captain marvel was never more popular, it got a few great months (when the serial came out) and that's it. DC managed to bully Fawcett, but it was dumb business decisions and the collapse of the Golden age market what killed fawcett, feel free to continue to be a wikifag.

>>94137158
DC can make movies and toys with the name captain marvel. Also reminder that DC almost lists its name to a fucking shoe company.

>>94136903
That's Kazam. For the record there's only one story about billy as Shazam and its that garbage called curse of Shazam.

>>94130388

Isn't Black Adam hella stronger than Shazam?

>>94137256
>So if they made toys or movies of him they could never put his name on the cover
The key part is "on the cover".

This is not even a debatable fact since Marvel is making a movie literally called "Captain Marvel" so they clearly own the trademark.

>>94137206
>No, DC never accomplished that and Captain marvel was published until 1953, DC sued in 41
Yeah, they sued in '41 and then there was barely any progress in the case until the 50s when DC won and Fawcett was forced to pay them as well as stop publishing Captain Marvel comics. This is literally history. There are books that talk all about this. Why the fuck are you trying to argue this and dismiss it with "WIKIFAGS!"?

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>>94136590
>>94136590

in that case, /co/ should put out a 'shazam' comic.

/lit/ published a novel
/pol/ got trump elected

this is /co/s time to shine!

>>94130388
Because kids suck. Little children should be massacred.

>>94138364
Don't be an edgelord

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>>94130388
He is a old property that they let set for too long. Kind of like the thread stated it skipped a generation. The only Shazam I have ever read is (pic related, Shazam #1 Feb 1973). To me he is just another supercape in a sea of supercapes so other than nostalgia the character will have a hard time getting popular in the modern market.

Isn't Shazam a copy of Supreme?

>>94132833
>- Captain Marvel Junior's classic stories were all revenge fantasies with heavily racist overtones. ALL OF THEM. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.


Ayy, it was war time. Why wouldn't they depict the Japanese as the slanty eyed bucktooth barbarians the public thought they were? Everyone was doing it.

>>94136903
Kazaam vs. Steel when?

>>94130388
>Why isn't Shazam more popular?
Marketing and the writers who would write him well either don't want to or are busy with other things.

You basically have a Mahou Shoujo with a boy and that shit writes himself.

Same shit with Amethyst. You have TWO magical children in the DC Universe running around and they don't really get used well save for a cartoon or a good story here or there.

>>94139171
>Mahou Shoujo with a boy
Mahou Shounen.

>>94139228
listen, I know said genre exists, but really we all know it better from sailor moon.

>>94137405
WB can make a movie named captain marvel, or toys, but dc can't publish comics.

>>94135154
>DC prefers using her as sexual prey.

Uh, really? Examples, please, in picture form? There is something about Mary Marvel, especially her classic look, that gets my motor going.

>>94132351
>accepting Nu52 bullshit

>>94139498

Mary Marvel seems like an incredibly moral person, that does not do things like engage in premarital sex or give blowjobs.

I kind of trust her.

Shazam will become DCs main character when Supermans IP becomes public property.

>>94139862
>Mary Marvel seems like an incredibly moral person
>died for Darkseid
>betrayed the Marvel family to get her powers back

Couldn't they not just call him Captain?

Call the book something of SHAZAM and have characters call him Captain.

I'm not so knowledgeable on the comic version but he always seemed to be used pretty well in the animated series.

Having him as the naive heart of the Justice League, and trying to teach him the necessary grey areas of being a hero while having him help deal with clear black and white stuff.

>>94139953
>implying that will ever happen
Disney doesn't let the mouse go public
domain and as a side effect neither does every thing else

>>94140011

She got Fucking Tricked MotherFucker!

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What do you think of the Shazam director, David F. Sandberg?

>>94138758
No, he's a knockoff of Prime.

>>94140046
I read somewhere that theres a 100 year limit on trademarks? like, thats how Alan Moore uses classic characters, (while bitching if anyone uses his parodies of existing characters).

>>94140094
>tricked
>went looking for Black Adam to give her powers when the gods didn't trust her
>still wanted more

>>94136461
And yet Ben10 is still insanely popular.

>>94130437
>why isnt mary marvel more popular?
Countdown.

>>94140774
Infinite or Final?

>>94130388
>Shazam
Fuck off fag.

DC wishes he didn't exist because he and Captain Marvel Jr were more popular than Supes in the fifties.

>>94130388
DC paid good money to ensure ol' billy boy never outshines their golden calf

>>94136416
>>94136434
Why did Moore want to have Billy and Mary have a kid?

>>94137346
I think they have the same powers but Black Adam has thousands of years of experience and he doesn't hold back

>>94141012
Countdown to Final Crisis.

She was not portrayed as a likeable character. Then again, that whole book sucked (except for the Trickster/Piper buddy flick in the first half).

>>94130388
his name is Shazam

they might as well have called him Bazinga or Kapow, or Buzzap or some other dumb onomatopoeia

DC made sure that Captain Marvel would never outshine Superman like he used to back in the 40s.

Shazam is a better character than Superman in every way and DC knows it so they marginalize him to protect their baby. Having that control over him is literally the only reason DC bought him in the first place.

>>94130388
His fans are very antagonistic, they still believe he is massively popular and are obnoxious about it which makes others have a dislike for the character they prefer. Also, they liked to shit on Superman and Superman has a much bigger fanbase.

>>94147414
Why did they name him after a music app anyway

>>94130506
Why did they work so hard to bury him though.

>>94147727
He was actually more popular than Superman through the 40s and 50s. So as soon as they could, DC bought him just so they could let him slip into obscurity and never threaten Superman's superiority again.

>>94147420
This. the entire thread proves how toxic Shazam fans are

>>94132150
I remember in Justice League Beyond, Billy, Shazam, Cap, Cap Jr, Mary, and Black Adam shared space-time and had to switch out. Flash Beyond was dating Cap and only Cap.

>>94130388
Children are annoying

>>94139111
This was bad even by those standards.
(Also, they literally gave Hitler superpowers.)

>>94148992
>Delicious brown /ss/

Even though Billy's mind aged and his body never did. And don't forget Injustice where Harley was incredibly thirsty for him

>>94144394
The same reason we all do.

Is there a videgame where Cap Marvel is a playable chararter?

>>94150496
Injustice though he dies in the story.

>>94148883
>shazam

Captain marvel has fans

The only people that calls him Shazam are either Casuals that read some shit in Wikipedia and Johnsfags.

>>94132833
>Captain Marvel Junior's classic stories were all revenge fantasies with heavily racist overtones. ALL OF THEM. WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
>>94149925
>(Also, they literally gave Hitler superpowers.)
Well, colour me intrigued

>>94151760
Shame the Cap Marvel Jr. comics over at Readcomics have pretty poor scans. I love reading badly aged comics.

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>go to window
>stick your head out
>yell "SHAZAM"
>post results

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>>94131951
>sometimes he picks people up and letting them get hit instead.

i love that

>>94131951

He's kind of like Pikachu in a way isn't he?

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>>94153643
>the lightning is magic
Dam is Shazam one of if not the most powerful members of the Justice League

>can go toe-to-toe with Wonder Woman
>draws the power of the same Gods Wonder Woman worships

>can go toe-to-toe with Superman
>has that magic edge making him superior

Shazam OP plz nerf

>>94130544
Shazam makes more sense though.
Ignore Marvel for a second and just imagine you heard a thunderous bellow shouting "SHAZAM" across the land that rumbles the the floor you stand on, to be followed by a flying Superman-esque dude saving the day -
you're not going to "Oh wow, must be Captain Marvel"

Not to mention, marketing wise, Shazam has a catchy and unique ring to it.

>>94154468
So I guess Spider-Man should be named "Thwip" and Wolverine should be named "Snkit"

>>94154465
>Dam is Shazam one of if not the most powerful members of the Justice League
he's still got nothing on Martian Manhunter or Plastic Man.

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>>94153598
>tfw too intelligent to yell "SH*ZAM"

>>94154713
depends do they're powers come from the fact that they yell thwip or snkit or because they both have powers similar to the animals they're named after

>>94156779
their not they're

Wait, is it Billy's mind in Captain marvel's body? because I remember in one of the comic he wasnt really Billy but they share a consciousness or something

>>94135421

This.

Except for Sivana being Attorney General and that AGs work that way.

And Mary being such a whiny baby beatch

>>94136805
It's already causing problems for Superman.