who is Spider-Man's DEFINITIVE arch-nemesis?

His double life as Peter Parker.

J.J.

Parker luck.

Gobby obviously.

Doc ock

>>93999310
Either
Venom or Doc. ock.

You just need to find a villian that spider-man really hates. Also why is charmelen there? I thought he loves spider-man?

>>93999310
Green Goblin by far. I was a normie casual until a few years ago and was barely even aware of Doc Ock

Green Goblin >= Doc Ock >>> everyone else

>>93999310
Norman Osborn. The Dark Reign and Superior Spider-Man stories basically existed to cement this.

>>93999425
Addendum: Green Goblin/Norman Osborn is his arch-enemy, but Carnage takes the spot of "truly most powerful enemy but second to the arch-enemy by virtue of not being the most recurring." Like Ra's Al Ghul for Batman or Brainiac for Superman.

How many times are we gonna discuss this topic?

>>93999310
Peter Parker.

>>93999310
Doc Ock or Green Goblin, all other non-meme answers like "Parker luck" are objectively wrong.

Personally I feel like Otto is a better thematic fit, but many are nostalgic for Norman who was pushed for a long time.

>>93999310
Gobby, then Doc Ock, then either Kingpin or Hobby

>>93999310
it's a triple toss-up between Venom,Green Goblin, or Doc Ock

Boomerang.

>>93999343
Second post best post.

>>93999573
Otto is the arch foe in a "frequently faces him" kind of way.
Gobby is the arch foe in a "every showdown is a big personal deal for Peter" kind of way.

I feel that the consensus is doc ock(took his life/identity), green goblin(killed his first love), and venom/Eddie Brock (just overall psychopath/rival that loves making his life hell

>>93999520
everytime a crossboarder stops by

>>93999310
Shocker.

>>93999310
1. Norman
2. Octavius
3. Interchangeable between Venom, Sandman, Rhino, Chameleon, Kraven, Vulture, Mysterio, Shocker, Lizard, Scorpion, Hobgoblin
4. Interchangeable between Kingpin, Tombstone, Silvermane, Hammerhead, the Endorcers, Hydroman, Morbius, and Carnage

>>93999480
that is Morlun, not Carnage.

>>93999310
Happiness

>>94001306
Eh, Morlun is a joke.

Hollywood

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The only one that matters..

>Quesada
>Slott
>Bendis

Pick any one

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>>93999395
>The real Evil Mastermind of the Marvel universe

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>>93999310
Here's a better question: Why do we have to constantly debate about this when it comes to Spider-Man ?
Shouldn't it be obvious by now ? Most supervillains have a pretty clear arch-nemesis.
Superman has Lex Luthor, the X-Men has Magneto (most of the time). Batman has a rogues gallery even bigger and older than Spider-Man and yet everyone knows his main arch-nemesis is The Joker
So what makes Spider-Man different ?

>>94004760
Well, for one, Norman actually managed to stay for a relatively long time in the comics and a lot of people would argue that in the original overall Lee run Doc Ock was supposed to be the main bad guy, especially with the issue when he lifts the metal thing and the Death of Captain Stacy in mind but then Normie had what was arguably the most iconic moment as a villain in all of Spider-man history right after that.

Hos is Venom not a distant third? If we're going by recognition to the general public he might even have better ground than GG or DO.

>>93999310
Venom
Green Goblin
Doc Ock

All other answers are objectively wrong.

>>94004760
Because Spider-Man's history with his villains is a little more convoluted.
Usually an arch-nemesis is defined by how much popularity they have, how many appearences they have, and how much of an impact they have on the hero. Most arch-villains have all three of those, thus making them arch-villains by default. Joker, for example, is the most popular, has the most appearences and left the biggest impression. Same deal with Lex Luthor.
But with Spider-Man things are kind of split. The villain who has left the biggest impact is Norman. Octopus was originally intended as the main bad guy and he had the most frequent appearences (he still has a very active role). But Venom completely eclipsed everyone in popularity. So as a result all three of them are viable contenders for the position of arch-nemesis

Venom by far, at least during the 80's and 90's, he seems to have the most personal relationship with Spiderman

>>94005009
That might've been the case then but after Sins Past (which I can't remember if it's in-continuity after OMD) and Superior Spider-man, I think the other two reaffirmed their tied positions.

Best spiderman reads please?

>>94004760
Also I'd argue that at least for comics fans Sentinels and [insert person controlling them] are just as much the main X-men villain as Magneto is.

>>94004760
Luthor is the anti-thesis of Superman, Magneto is the anti-thesis of Xavier, The Joker is the anti-thesis of Batman.

The anti-thesis of Spider-man is...?

>>94004760
Also also...Wonder Woman still doesn't have one, even with Ares being the big baddy in her first movie.

>>94005122
>The anti-thesis of Spider-man is...?
I guess Otto fits the role of anti-thesis the most. Venom also does it to an extent but it's mostly from a really superficial standpoint (Spider-Man but ALIEN AND DARK)

>>94005352
It kind of depends I think which is why there are two competing figures.

Osborn is in many ways the anti-thesis of Parker. his powers are the accidental result of an experiment like Spider-man but unlike Spider-man in his daily life he's a rich and successful business man. Depending on what you think Parker's core character traits are there's an argument that Osborn is a good counter-balance to them.

Meanwhile Octavius has a twisted version of Spider-man's backstory, unlike Osborn he fits more closely to how Peter was before becoming Spider-man so Otto is almost like a darker version of the hero.

>>94005122
Osborn is basically an opposite of Peter on every level.

>>93999310
Remove everyone that hasn't killed him in E-616 or at least another major Earth.

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>>94005519
I think there's a good argument to be made here that all three villains stand for something as opposites of Peter.
Otto stands as an evil counterpart and opposite of Peter Parker as a character.
Venom is the evil counterpart/opposite of the Spider-Man figure.
And Osborn is the complete anti-thesis of everything that comprises Spider-Man, both man and costume

I think for this reason Osborn deserves the spot. He just encompasses more.
Kind of like how Batman and Bruce Wayne have several characters standing as their evil counterparts and anti-versions (most prominently characters like Penguin and Bane and Ra's al Ghul), but Joker is the villain that kind of covers everything because he stands on the furthest end of the spectrum as the absolute anti-thesis of everything that comprises Batman.

Yeah, I'm going with Goblin as the definitive choice for THE Spider-Man archnemesis. The other two are good, and I personally prefer Octopus, but Norman is the one who deserves it.

>>94004605
>I'm telling you, Peter. That Mary Jane is no good. Save yourself the trouble and ask out Michelle instead. I like the cut of her jib. And if that doesn't work out, I know another girl you might like. Her name's Carlie.

>>94001237
No it's not fucking debatable. 3 is clearly Venom. Don't be a faggot.

>>93999310
The Marvel Bull-Pen

ARF ARF COMICS JOURNALISM ARF

>>94005968
This is just as funny as when you posted it the other day. In that it's not. Shut the fuck up.

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>>93999310
why do we keep getting these threads every few months, the answer is obvius, its fucking Norman, stop making your fav more then what they are

>>93999573
I'd vote Norman.

both Norman and Ock had their time as "good guys".

With Ock, it led to him actually trying to do "good" in his own way. Superior.

With Norman, it just ended up in Dark Reign.

Norman's clearly the "badder" guy, which I think is important as a trait for the arch enemy of a good guy.

>>93999573
Doc Ock is a better thematic fit for Peter Parker as a character, but to everything that encompasses Spider-Man, Norman is the better choice. He is simply more personal.
It's kind of like how The Penguin is the perfect counterpoint to Bruce Wayne as a character but The Joker is the perfect anti-thesis to everything that comprises Batman.

Actually I feel like Penguin and Octopus fill pretty similar roles in their respective hero's rogues gallery.
I feel like Otto is what Ozzy could have been if he was taken more seriously and if it wasn't for writers like Denny O'Neil or the anti-camp sentiment following the Adam West show that threw both Penguin and Riddler into the joke status.

At the very least I think most of us agree Venom does not deserve the status of Spider-Man's main arch-enemy.

>>94006257
>At the very least I think most of us agree Venom does not deserve the status of Spider-Man's main arch-enemy.
He doesn't in-story but to deny that he's iconic would to just be wrong. I'd bet more kids recognize him by appearance than Green Goblin or Dock Ock. Mind you, I completely agree storywise. I'm just saying, in the same way that Braniac is more of an archnemesis story by story than Zod is yet Zod has more recognition, Venom is easily the most recognizable out of the three.

I'm tired and my grammar's shitty, I hope that made sense.

>>94006317
>He doesn't in-story but to deny that he's iconic would to just be wrong.
But that's what I was talking about
I'm not denying he is iconic. As I said >>94004996, Venom eclipses Goblin and Ock in popularity. He's the character people likely think of nowadays when they hear "Spider-Man" and "villain" in the same sentence.
I was saying that, story-wise, and thematically, he does not deserve the status of main arch-enemy at all. He comes in third place.

>>94005698
Funny you mention bruce having an anti-thesis in the penguin and then daying the Joker covers bruce as well as the bat. Joker isn't the antithesis to Bruce. The thing is a lot of batman's villains try to be his antithesis ,more prominent Bane, but then you have catwoman, owl man, prometheus, his "brother"

In the early years I'd say that Octopus had the more compelling claim to the title of arch-nemesis. There's the 'dark mirror' aspect of his origin (being a friendless puny science nerd) and the fact that he beat Peter and shattered his confidence the first time they fought. For years he was Spidey's "Oh shit!" villain - the guy that Peter feared more than any of his other foes. But somewhere down the line (80s? 90s?) he started being written as a bit of a joke - someone who was neither a physical or intellectual challenge for Spider-man.

Norman on the other hand, is a totally different character today to the guy he was in his early appearances. In the early Green Goblin issues - right up until his 'death' in 1973 - Norman and the Goblin are completely different personas - with Norman as a stressed and repressed (but fundamentally decent) father and the Goblin as the criminal mastermind supervillian. That character couldn't fairly be described as an arch-nemesis - half the time he didn't even have a clue he was a villain, let alone wish the hero harm.

Since Marvel brought Norman back at the end of the Clone Saga he has, in effect, been a totally different character - all an bad, scheming criminal mastermind, regardless of persona. The walls between the two personalities have been totally eroded. The Norman as 'arch-nemesis' idea has its origins in the Clone Saga - the writers had created a sprawling tale of such overwhelming complexity, they needed a villain to return and be the mastermind behind it. Once they chose Norman to fulfil this role they had to totally change his character, and they had to establish him as the definitive arch nemesis. It was the only way to make the payoff they'd written work.

I like the fact that Slott has spent so much time over the last few years making Octavius a credible physical and intellectual threat once again. Now I'd just like an in-story incident where Octopus proves he's smarter than Osborn.

>>94006695
I'll admit to not reading Spider-man that much but I've never, for even a minute, thought Osborn was an intellectual equal to Octopus.

>>94006711
Not a surprise, Osborn is a CEO. He isn't the guy in the labcoat, he's the guy that signs the checks and approves the projects. But CEOs of oil companies know how to drill for oil, CEOs of construction companies know about engineering. Same thing with scientific research companies.
So he does have the mental chops to be in that lab, moreso now that the Goblin formula has enhanced his brains along with his brawn.
It's not Otto-level understanding of science, but it's enough to know what he's doing.
Definitely up to Peter's level.

Otto or Jameson

>>94005968

Michelle Jameson, daughter of Astronaut John Jameson, granddaughter to Daily Bugle EIC J. Jonah Jameson Jr.

This is how we get JJJ introduced, and maybe Werewolf-By-Night (maybe hinted by Kraven?)

>>94007060
Hunted, but hinted. Fucking fingers

>>93999310
Life

>>94006695
Nah man even in the older comics it was clear that Goblin was Peter's big oh shit villain that hurt him the most. He had way too many personal connections to Peter to not be

It's obviously sony pictures

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>>94007135
forgot pic

>>94007096

He has no personal connection for his first few appearances - it's not until his fourth (or maybe fifth - can't be bothered to check) storyline that it's established that he's the father of a friend of Peter's. He then only appears in another three stories before he gets killed off in #Amazing 122. He only appeared in a total of 6 issues (spread over 7 years) after his identity was revealed.

>>93999310
The better question is, could Peter beat all of them at once if he doesn't hold back?

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>>94007060
That would actually be swell.
Plus it could lead to pic related

>>93999310
Amy Pascal

>>94006100
>Argues Norman
>Posts Harry

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Look at the file name

>>94005122
this is asking who is the most irresponsible power mad villain he has had. So that certainly puts the two Goblins up there. And Dr.Oc, and Venom, and Tombstone, and Lizard, and...

>>93999310
Pizza time

Gobby/Norman

He cucked Peter.
He made tenderly love with Gwen Stacy and they even have a child together.
Always remember!
Always
Remember

>>93999310
Everyone looks at Norman through "Post-Resurrection" glasses. Even before that, Norman was considered Peter's ultimate enemy, even when replaced as arch-enemy in the traditional sense by Otto, Venom, and Hobgoblin.

>Beat Spider-Man, chained up his limp body, and presented it to the entire criminal underworld in an act of superiority
>Manipulated Spider-Man into almost clearing a path for him to rule the criminal underworld, to which he almost succeeded
>Made Spider-Man look like a coward in front of everyone, causing Peter to run for his life from the likes of Sandman and the Enforcers
>Paid Kraven to track down Spider-Man and kill him
>Tracked Spider-Man down, found out his secret identity, ambushed him, and toted him around the New York skies unconscious and maskless
>After losing his memory, every once in a while gains his memory back, to which Peter is so terrified that he actually wonders if killing the Goblin is his only option
>Kills Gwen Stacey
>Leaves behind a legacy for Harry, essentially corrupting him and causing a second Green Goblin made out of Peter's best friend
>Paves the way for the Hobgoblin, who becomes one of Spider-Man's greatest enemies and follows suit in attempting to control the criminal underworld

Norman was that villain who hit the "big deal whenever he pops up" mark. Otto was more frequent, and his plans were usually more global in scale, but Goblin knew exactly where to aim and how to do it. Hobgoblin was dangerous, but he wasn't quite as cutthroat, or even as clever, as Norman. Harry's guilt prevented him from fully being like his father, despite coming close a few times. Venom only had a few run ins before he became Lethal Defender. Even in death Pete couldn't shake him.

>>93999310
Norman or Otto.

>>93999310
Peter Parker.

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>>94006695
>Since Marvel brought Norman back at the end of the Clone Saga he has, in effect, been a totally different character
I'd argue that this began even before Norman came back from the dead. As time went on anytime Norman was mentioned posthumously it was always in a bad light that painted him as an abusive father rather than the well meaning neglectful one he was in the early issues and a monster even outside the Goblin costume.

The Clone Saga didn't bring Norman back as a different character, it brought Norman back as the character he was built up to be after his death.

>>93999343
Best answer

>>93999310
Joe Quesada. Looking at the thread he's the most consistently mentioned villian.

>>94005122
Otto

>>93999364
Bingo
https://youtu.be/2fXAGC_B2Ys

>>93999310
What the fuck is Hobgoblin doing?

>>93999573
Norman killed Gwen and changed t
Spider-man forever.

It's not one of those things I think they planned for but it's stuck so hard that it's cemented the Green Goblin's place as Peter's worst enemy.

And then again when they made him responsible for the Clone Saga.

I honestly wouldn't be suprised at this rate they if they ever do decide to retcon OMD, Norman will end up being involved in some way.

>>94006695
Norman was written as a somewhat better father but still a murderous criminal who framed and tried to kill Stromm, and wanted Spidey out even before the reveal.

Heck, the more sympathetic figure emerges when his bouts of amnesia became a thing. So Norman's characterisation didn't really stabalize till after he murdered Gwen and "died".
He basically reverted back to his earlier self but worse.

But even after the reveal, Gobby came loaded with a lot of tension since he knew Peter's identity (take note Slott and all post-OMD writers) and was Harry's dad. So the personal connection was already there.
He was very much the "oh shit" villain.

>>93999310
Bendis

>>94004439
Slott ~ Venom
Bendis ~ Otto
Quesada ~ Gobby

>>93999310
Dan Slott

Osborne obviously, he was the first of Peter's rogues to learn his secret identity, he was the first of his rogues to kill a loved one, the first one that Peter killed by accident, his son Harry had taken up the glider once and tried to kill spidey, and now his grandson Normie wants to kill spider-man. Three generations of Osbornes trying to kill him, in my eyes, solidifies Norman as his arch enemy.

>>94019034

But as I've said upthread, that 'personal connection' only existed for the last three stories he appeared in - six issues of appearances over seven years.

> Norman remembers he's the Goblin, puts Spidey's loved ones at risk, is defeated and loses his memory of being the Goblin.
> Norman remembers he's the Goblin, attacks Peter at home, is defeated and loses his memory of being the Goblin.
>Norman remembers he's the Goblin, kills Gwen Stacy, gets impaled on his glider and dies.

So sure - for those three stories there's the threat that "He's the villain that knows my identity". But only for those three stories. Whereas Octopus was established as a major threat from his first appearance. He beat Peter in two of his first three appearances (and got Betty Brant's brother killed in the third, making Betty hate Spidey). He put together the first version of the Sinister Six. As the Master Planner he almost cost Aunt May her life. He manipulates an amnesiac Spider-man into breaking the law. After another beating from Ock, Spidey is forced to come up with a way to disrupt his control of his tentacles - which ends up accidentally killing George Stacey (and makes Gwen hate Spidey). I could go on - point is, it was always a big deal when Doctor Octopus appeared. Whereas the Goblin was only a 'personal threat' for those last three stories.

Venom wants to be
Ock thinks he is
Norman just is and doesn't care

In recent years it's probably Ock, but historically it's definitely Norman

Green Goblin. And i don't even like the character Otto actually saved Peter's life once, and Venom teamed up with Spider a couple of times. Norman never had any redeeming features.

>>93999343
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED
Get back here, you're unfired

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgL8h_u2PHw

Slyde.

>>94022454
One thing I wish was more explored in Spider-Girl was Normie as the Green Goblin. I really liked his stint as a Goblin.

>>94022468
Goblin was always a worst case scenario villain. Depending on how you look at the idea of an "arch enemy," you had Ock who was more frequent, and Goblin who was less frequent but represented a scarier force.

Norman represented what can go wrong being a superhero.

>>94020835
This works. This is correct.

>>93999310
Marvel Editors

>>94020835

>Venom is pretty cool, has given Spider-Man some good stories, but turned off a lot of fans.

>Doc Oc is poses a threat to Spidy, but for the most part is pretty harmless, and actually pretty good for him story-wise.

>Green Goblin fucked Parker's life pretty hard.

Yeah, I like your lineup.

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>>94026444

>>93999395
this.

>>94020835
Accurate

>>94020835
Quality post

>>93999310
Green Goblin is Spiderman`s Joker
Venom is Spiderman`s Bane
Dr. Octopus is Spiderman`s Riddler
Sandman is Spiderman`s Calyface
Electro is Spiderman´s Mr. Freeze
Lizard is Spiderman`s Killer Croc

>>94032096
>Dr. Octopus is Spiderman`s Riddler
>Electro is Spiderman´s Mr. Freeze
I'd swap both of these, actually. Electro can arguably be considered Spiderman's Riddler as the villain who used to be a big deal and can pose a huge threat, but is usually reduced to a joke.
And Octopus and Freeze as the respective mad scientists with tragic backstories who had a accident that made them supervillains. Although Lizard is much closer to Freeze in that regard, with Rhino as Spiderman's Killer Croc

And if we are talking counterparts, Dr.Octopus and The Penguin are closer.

>>94019034
>Whereas the Goblin was only a 'personal threat' for those last three stories.
Those three stories and onwards.
I'll concede that Oc was probably intended to be Peter's arch-nemesis, but ever since that reveal Norman solidly overthrew him.

I really doubt that Norman will ever be replaced because something like the Death of Gwen Stacey can never happen again.
A long-lasting stand-out story that never get's undone is close to impossible the way comics are now.

>>94033576

So that would mean that over the years his arch-nemesis has been...

1963-66 - Doctor Octopus
1966-73 - Norman Osborn
1973-96 - Doctor Octopus
1996 -2017 - Norman Osborn

That sounds about right to me. (Although you could conceivable argue that Venom held the top spot for at least part of the period between 1988 and 1996...)

>>93999310
Only one of his rogues ever impregnated and then killed his teenage love interest.

Spiderman has a lot of rogues, but there's only one Norman Osborn.

>>93999337
I don't like the 'first post best post' meme one bit, but what else can I say when the first post perfectly nailed it