MCU Villains

I liked Vulture, but I don't care too much for his bird suit. I know they couldn't have him flapping his arms in a green suit like a retard, but I am getting a little tired of the metallic clusterfucks that every mech in cinema seems to be nowadays. Transformers started it.

I haven't seen the movie yet and I already know that Keaton in Homecoming is the best.

His performance in 'The Founder' and 'Birdman' before that already put him towards the top my my list of favorite actors.

>>93866810
Giving Toomes the Top Gun treatment was the best thing they could have done for his design

>>93866810
Vulture has literally never looked cooler than he has in this movie.

>>93865048
Vulture>>>Zemo>Fisk>Red Skull>Loki>>>>>>>>>>everything else

I didn't count Bucky because he's not really a villain, though he's great as WS. Marvel needs to fix their fucking villain problem, and they need Doom. I'm hoping Hella and Skurge turn out to be good.

>>93867496
>Fisk

he's good but this thread is for MCU

>>93867691
So they finally confirmed Netflix for non-canon, eh. I'm actually okay with that.

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Will she be good, bros? Will Skurge be good?

>>93866810
I'll forgive it in this case. His stuff is literally scraped together from alien tech, it makes sense it isn't perfect and shiny.
>>93866995
I'm glad Keaton's getting work again. Guess I'm a sucker for a good comeback.

>>93867843
Well she cant be as bland as Malekith so theres that. Im more interested in Surtur

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The Vulture gets props for actually making me care about The Vulture

>>93867868
I wouldn't get your hopes up. I have a strong suspicion that he will just end up being a big 3rd act monster fight. Which sucks, but they fucked up by not setting him up a few movies ago.

>>93865048
I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but as for the rest, Kaicilius is the most realistic villain I've seen. He reminds me of how so many people join the alt-right after finding out that certain statistics have been hidden from them "for their own good."

>>93867843

She might be alright. Skurge is going to be garbage.

>tfw they will never do Skurge's death properly in the movies

>>93867982
The guns imply that he may stand alone, so theres that. Im still salty Beta Ray Bill hasnt shown up yet

>>93865048
Stane, Loki, Red Skull, Pierce, Ultron, Yellowjacket, Kaicilius, Ego, and Vulture are all good.

>>93867982
I have mixed feelings about Skurge. It's great that he's going to be in the movie, and that based Urban will be playing him. That being said, like Surtur, he should have been established in earlier Thor movies to that it could be a great payoff.

This is why the Cap movies have been the superior MCU trilogy...a consistent set of writers

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>>93867843

No.

>>93868178
Care to elaborate? I'm not sure what that pic is supposed to imply

>>93867807

That anon meant for movies only.

>>93868116
I've been saying that Thor 3 feels like to a sequal to some different Thor movies.

They're all shit

>>93865048
>Who was your favorite MCU villain to grace the screen so far?
Grant Ward

>>93865048
Toomes and loki

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>>93869060

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>>93869307
haha oops

>>93867843
>Cate Blanchett
>good

Pick both, every time. Is this a joke post?

>>93869307
You Americans and your Starbucks.

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>>93866810
The suit was great and believable I've seen the fucking hover bike they got going and I honestly believe someone could come up with the vulture suit in homecoming would be pretty damn fucking cool if someone in robotics could pull that off.

>>93869379

I haven't been to a Starbucks in years.

>>93869583
Fine. You Americans and your Peet's Coffee.

>>93869359

I think the question he's asking is whether the writing/direction will give her character an opportunity to shine. A lot of people like Mads Mikkelsen and Don Cheadle but the MCU doesn't really do them any favors

>>93869607

I don't know what that is

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>>93866810

It was the best possible option, given what he normally looks like. There just aren't many ways you can make an old guy with wings seem intimidating or effective.

>>93867843
nah, they should stop making Thor movies already. Literally no one cares. Make more Ant Man instead.

>>93865048
All the Winter Soldier did was scowl and pout under his eye-liner. Give him a cape and he's basically Superman. The 2 best fight scenes of the movie don't even involve him.

>>93869060
That's pretty much intentional.

Didn't see the movie yet. Can anybody tell me what makes Vulture so good? Also, does he die? Not afraid of spoilers.

>>93870192
Amazing motivation set up
Genuinely great acting
Is actually given screen time for characterization
His back story relates thematically to what a vulture is
Fukken rad jacket
Even better suit

>>93870192

1. his motivation for being a villain is based in trying to continue to make a living in a world that made his previous job obsolete, as opposed to some crazy revenge or megalomania

2. Overall pretty competent for a movie cape villain.
2a. His goal was never to fight any superheroes or even draw their attention. Spidey only knows about him because one of his henchmen fucked up.
2b. He figures out who Spider-Man is by putting together obvious clues that you could easily imagine a character in a cape movie shrugging off with a "wow, what a coincidence!"

3. He's at least reasonable enough to realize that Spider-Man could have killed him and doesn't go out of his way to fuck him over after being defeated.

4.Michael Keaton

GOD TIER
>Vulture
>Winter Soldier

GREAT TIER
>Zemo
>Ego
>Stane
>Pierce

GOOD TIER
>Red Skull
>Hammer
>Cross

MEH TIER
>Blonsky
>Ultron
>Loki

BAD TIER
>Whiplash
>Ronan
>Kalicilus
>Dormammu

SHIT TIER
>Malekith
>Mandarin

>>93869625
Don Cheadle is great in his role.

>>93870192
On top of being played by the incomparable Michael Keaton, he happens to have a fully realised character arc which isn't hindered by an obligated villain death at the end of the film. He has a solid and sympathetic motivation which dimensionalises him without making him overly sympathetic and more than one scene in which he's genuinely intimidating. His costume is pretty great too, and creates a striking silhouette in the film's darker scenes. As such, he's simultaneously one of the scariest and most human villains the MCU has produced so far.

>>93870778

his role is to be the blandest character in the series though

>>93870714

Ultron, Stane, and Pierce all need to drop at least one tier and Winter Soldier needs to drop 2 or 3 tiers

>>93871078
Tony Stank, pls

>>93870714
This list is almost completely correct, just need to move Pierce and Winter Soldier down a peg.

>>93869231
It was a wild ride, man.

>>93870714
Ugh, Blonsky is so underrated. Tim Roth as a mercenary obsessed with power who is then consumed by it? Easily as powerful a performance as fucking Keaton as Vulture. And I always liked Vulture anyway.

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Has the Vulture ever had a more badass look in the comics?

>>93868208
I believe he was saying they look similar

>>93871814

For real though the movie tries to play it like his resemblance to a vulture is pure coincidence. Why does he have shoe-talons if that's the case?

>>93870469
>1. his motivation for being a villain is based in trying to continue to make a living in a world that made his previous job obsolete, as opposed to some crazy revenge or megalomania
>2. Overall pretty competent for a movie cape villain.
>2a. His goal was never to fight any superheroes or even draw their attention. Spidey only knows about him because one of his henchmen fucked up.
>2b. He figures out who Spider-Man is by putting together obvious clues that you could easily imagine a character in a cape movie shrugging off with a "wow, what a coincidence!"
>3. He's at least reasonable enough to realize that Spider-Man could have killed him and doesn't go out of his way to fuck him over after being defeated.
>4.Michael Keaton

All of this. He wasn't some childish caricature of evil. He was a rational small business owner operating on the far side of the law. He had a solid point about the little guys getting overshadowed by rich playboy god-heroes, and he was probably the major factor in Spider-Man's decision to stay street-level.

>>93872146
For grabbing loot.

>>93872220

but I mean how many non bird themed villains make talons to grab loot with? There's a million things he could have made for that purpose, it's a pretty big coincidence

>>93870714
Bucky isn't even a villain, he's a plot device

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Considering how often Mac Gargan was named dropped, how do you want to see him handled? Costume? Claws/Pinsirs or no?

>>93872573
I'm guessing cold open and the suit looking like a Whiplash sort of deal

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>>93872573
Something like pic related for his costume, maybe.
>non-bulky armor; give him enough flexibility to move hard and fast with meta-tier strength/speed augmentations
>possibly a longer tail with a minimalist-looking articulation mechanism, and maybe do something interesting with the stinger too, though idk what
>claws are a secondary feature installed onto his forearm, not covering his hands
>suit is a bright shade of green contrasting hard with the black features, not some dark/desaturated tacticool bullshit

>>93872146
I don't think it's supposed to be a coincidence. They just don't dwell on it.

>>93867807
Nothing's really confirmed, but it's "one way canon", MCU characters/events exist in the netflix shows and thus have some effect on them, netflix characters don't really exist in the movies, which is is why luke cage or iron fist haven't been called up about the avengers initiative, or why shield hasn't stopped hydra.

AoS is in the same boat fortunately

>>93869231
>ward
>villain

>>93871078
So a perfect rhodey

>>93872573
Tail shouldn't originally be a tail. Remember the leg braces Rhodey had at the end of Civil War? Mac cobbles a bunch of stark-tech back-braces/surgery equipment together and only means to use it to break out of jail. Maybe to break down the door, maybe to reach a certain window, who knows. Maybe they get fused to him in a Doc Ock like accident, or maybe he discovers that these medical braces make an excellent weapon offensive. Through-out the film he's adding more tools to it to it 'till it's filled with lethal weapons, but Spidey breaks 'em all except the main one, the giant twisted hunk of metal that's like a scorpion's stinger.

The main thing is that it should be something you could conceivable make in a prison -- hence, medical equipment.

>>93865048
Darren Cross is horribly overrated. Yeah, he was kinda scary but the movie was trying so hard to make it clear that he was evil. Shit was so lame.

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GOD TIER
>Vulture

GREAT TIER
>Zemo
>Ego
>Stane
>Pierce
>"Mandarin"

GOOD TIER
>Red Skull
>Hammer
>Loki (Thor)

MEH TIER
>Whiplash
>Blonsky
>Ultron
>Loki (Avengers)

BAD TIER
>Ronan
>Kalicilus
>Dormammu

SHIT TIER
>Malekith
>Killian
>Cross

NOT ACTUALLY A VILLAIN TIER
>Bucky

HONORABLE MENTION
>Zola (only in Winter Soldier)

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10/10

Leaped into my heart. Frenchie must be a Thunderbolt

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>>93865048
GOD TIER
>Vulture
>Arnim Zola
>Loki

GREAT TIER
>Zemo
>Ego
>Stane
>A. Pierce

GOOD TIER
>Red Skull
>Cross
>Winter Soldier
>YellowJacket
>Thunderbolt Ross
>Ultron
>Faora
>Waller
>Zod
>Magneto
>Batroc

MEH TIER
>Hammer
>Nebula
>Blonsky
>Laufey
>Whiplash
>Kaecilius
>Batman
>Enchantress
>D. Pierce
>Angel Dust
>Dr. Poison
>General Ludendorff
>Killian

BAD TIER
>Ronan
>Malekith
>Dormammu
>Lex Luthor
>Joker
>Francis

JOKE/SHIT CGI TIER
>Shocker
>Mandarin
>Destroyer
>Taserface
>Nam-Ek
>Doomsday
>Incubus
>X-24
>Apocalypse
>Ares
>Francis

>>93865048
MCU villains ranked, anyone I forgot must just be unmemorable or not important.

1. The Vulture
2. Loki
3. Ego
4. Iron Monger
5. Red Skull
6. Yellowjacket
7. Ultron
8. Zemo
9. Thanos (I'm sure he'll be higher up after Infinity War, seeing as he hasn't really done anything yet)
10. Kaicilius
11. Pierce
12. Justin Hammer
13. Whiplash
14. Dormammu
15. Ronan

I don't really count Winter Soldier as a villain.

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While the Iron Monger CGI payoff wasn't enough, Obidiah Stane was an incredibly effective villain in the first Iron Man movie.

>>93870714
Ultron needs to be shit tear. Completely fucking ruined by Joss Whedon's snarky writing. The trailers made him scary as fuck when it was just creepy monologues and shit but then the movie had him making sarcastic jokes every other line.

>>93877216
Aren't you supposed to be off cringing somewhere?

>>93876883
He was actually badass

>>93872381
Supervillainy is a recent thing in this universe. There are no 'bird themed villains.

>>93877216
Simply removing the "what are babies?" line and the attempting to vomit thing would add a lot him his intimidation.

>>93877293
It's no worse than Faora's ridiculous monologuing about her "superior evolution" when she's the result of over a thousand years of eugenics.

>>93877293
a lot to his*

>God tier
Vulture
Cottonmouth
Kingpin
>Great tier
Stane
Blonsky
Zola
>Good tier
Ego
Loki in Thor 1
Punisher
>Meh tier
Kaecillus
Red Skull
Darien Cross
>Bad tier
Ultron
Ronan
Whiplash
Loki in Avengers
>Shit tier
Killian
Malekith
Kilgrave
That one fuck from Iron Fist
fuck you "muh not canon" faggots

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>>93878277
>Punisher
>a villain

>>93878360
>Vulture
>a villain
But yeah, I mean antagonist.

>>93865048
>8. Thor: The Dark World
>Eccelston is under utilized and tossed away.
Deleted his scenes for Loki, God

>>93865048
>Whiplash was terrible
Apparently he got screwed over and Rourke was pissed

>>93870469
>He figures out who Spider-Man is by putting together obvious clues that you could easily imagine a character in a cape movie shrugging off with a "wow, what a coincidence!"
Man that car ride scene is the best scene in the movie.

>>93867807
No they didn't, it's stupid meme of "Not canon because tv!"

>>93878498
From Toomes opening the front door to Peter getting out of the car was legit tense and intimidating.

>>93869231
Ward was great

>>93870714
I love how we live in a world where Vulture, of all characters, is considered God Tier in an adaption. Amazing

>>93878277
>fuck you "muh not canon" faggots

Thank you

1. Loki
2. Ego
3. Zemo
4. Red Skull
5. Ultron
6. Vulture
7. Pierce
8. Yellowjacket
9. Ronan
10. Killian
11. Kaecilius
12. Abomination
13. Iron Monger
14. Whiplash
15. Malekith

If you want to include tv villains, Kingpin and Killgrave should be at the top, Cottonmouth should be pretty high and Diamondback should be at the absolute bottom.

>>93870829
He has some great single moments too
>the first time Peter sees his eyes and you almost hear a vulture cry coming from his wing suit
>"I'm not going home empty handed!" Really struck me since he's still thinking about his family through a fucking plane crashinf and battling a superhero

>>93879013
There was just something so sympathetically blue collar about that line that hit me in the heart.
Being a provider means so much to him, as much as the actual act of providing and I felt a little sad seeing his battered wing suit try to lift that larger crate at the end

>>93869231
>Ward
>Villain
Objectively wrong.

>>93879106
>There was just something so sympathetically blue collar about that line that hit me in the heart.
Also note that he never actually deliberately try to kill anyone other than Peter at the end. He STEALS things, but once the theft is foilled he leaves. This is most clear in the mid-point when Peter fell into the truck. After he was interrupted he just up and left, and no one who drove the trucks ever noticed it. If anything, if the Stark Carrier plane had human pilots, he probably wouldn't have considered robbing it. The guy just isn't violent in nature and would prefer not to hurt people.

>>93879254
He was pretty non chalant about killing Montana though. He didn't mean to but he wasn't exactly broke up about it either.

Also yes he was providing for his family but he clearly got a thrill out of stealing as well. Probably thought he was "Stickin' it to the man" or whatever.
I liked the duality in the character.

>>93879315
I think he may have killed before but he reminds me of Walter White: a family man willing to do bad things for those he loves.

If you notice, he only actually pulls the gun on his ex-employee after said employee threatens to spill the beans on the operation.

I don't doubt Toomes has killed before but I doubt he's the type to do it in passing or to "send a message." I wager he saw the fate of that Ex Employee as a loose end tied up, protecting his family and the rest of his workers

I mean here's a thing I noticed that seemed sort of unusual: none of his workers ever seemed to have an issue with him.
They're all in a warehouse filled with alien weapons and some could try to turn on him but they all seem fairly loyal to a guy who seems to spend most of his day out of his super suit.
Since most of them are probably from his contracting job before, I think he genuinely takes care of all of them

>>93879427
Yeah, he clearly had a classic Blue-collar vs corrupt elite thing going on, and as we sort of speculated before, he was probably a fighter pilot in the military at some point so he got some joy out of using his skills in this way.

>>93879427
>I mean here's a thing I noticed that seemed sort of unusual: none of his workers ever seemed to have an issue with him.
>They're all in a warehouse filled with alien weapons and some could try to turn on him but they all seem fairly loyal to a guy who seems to spend most of his day out of his super suit.
It is interesting that his entire crew had a clean criminal record. So they are breaking the law, but they weren't career criminals. They were honest people before fate forced their hand.

>>93878277
>no Ward

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>>93867982
>Skurge is going to be garbage.

Pathetic attempt at trolling here.

This is Karl Eomer Vaako Bones Doom Dredd Skurge Urban we're talking about here. He's pretty much the best thing about most of the films and shows he's in.

>>93880077
I tried to give AoS a chance, but I never can go further than the Sif episode. Maybe it's improved later, but it's really shitty in the beginning.
Sorry anon.

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You all forgot this pimp right here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSPkx294gTc

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>>93881771
I fucking hate it when they try to "subvert the viewer's expectations" and anticlimactically kill off a very menacing main antagonist in the middle of the season then replace him with a lamer one.
It's not as bad as when Dexter did it, but it's still shit.

>>93867843
>female villains
>ever good

>>93878527
And the scenes still managed to be comedic as well without breaking the intense tension.

Quipmeisters writing shit like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange, take note.

>>93882449
>Joss Whedon take note
FTFY

>>93866995
So many people forget Night Shift and Mr. Mom :(

1. Iron Man 1
>Have no idea who was the villain

2. Incredible Hulk
>Have no idea who was the villain

3. Iron Man 2
>Have no idea who was the villain.

4. Thor
>Have no idea who was the villain

5. Captain America: First Avenger
>Have no idea who was the villain

6. The Avengers
>Have no idea who was the villain

7. Iron Man 3
>Have no idea who was the villain

8. Thor: The Dark World
>Have no idea who was the villain

9. Captain America: Winter Soldier
>Have no idea who was the villain

10. Guardians of the Galaxy
>Have no idea who was the villain

11. Avengers: Age of Ultron
>Have no idea who was the villain

12. Ant Man
>Have no idea who was the villain

13. Captain America: Civil War
>Have no idea who was the villain

14. Doctor Strange
>Have no idea who was the villain

15. Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2
>Have no idea who was the villain

16. Spider-Man: Homecoming
>Have no idea who was the villain

There are no good vaillains in MCU, kek

>>93869769
Which two were your favorite?

>>93882562
Maybe you should watch the movies, then. It's literally impossible to 'not remember' some of these stellar performances.

>>93869231
THIS
>>93865048
>The beginning of Tumblr sucking Loki's cock for years to come.
This might be true, but they really did a great job with Loki in the first Thor, both when it comes to design, acting and plot. His scheming was great, shame he went full retard in Avengers.

>>93882562

Batman Begins
>Have no idea who was the villain

The Dark Knight
>Have no idea who was the villain

The Dark Knight Rises
>Have no idea who was the villain

There are no good villains in the Nolanverse, kek

>>93876883

They really need to make a Thunderbolts movie with him, Abomination, Justin Hammer with his own comically over-armed suit, that surviving redhead Extremis chick, Mordo, Elektra, Nuke, Diamondback and Absorbing Man.

>>93883372
>wanting that shitty Nuke anywhere

>>93883372
Normies would call it a Suicide Squad ripoff, but I would watch the hell out of that

>>93884003
>Normies would call it a Suicide Squad ripoff, but I would watch the hell out of that
Not if they actually are real villains. They are not suppose to be antiheroes.

>>93879427
>>93879315
Wasn't it implied he was ex-military with that "they make us fight their wars" line?

Would make a lot of sense. Why else would this old family man be good at weapon-tech and be the one to pilot the wing suit instead of some of the younger guys?

>>93883052
>The Dark Knight Rises
>Have no idea who was the villain

How can you forget the masketta man?

>>93885097
Maybe, was he a big guy?

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As weird as it is to say, I felt Ego was definitely one of the better villains to grace the MCU. He was so much more than just a villain with a master plan. He literally had a god complex and was willing to extend himself across the universe. His disposal of past children was horrifying and once he realized Peter would hate him for what he had done to his mother, he switched gears and started enacting his master plan.

As someone that has relatively little experience with cosmic Marvel, how close was Ego to his comic book counterpart?

>>93876984
I actually liked Shocker II. He was just like Shocker from the comics, a smart guy keeping his head down and trying to get paid.

>>93878922
>Bland Skull that high
>Ultron above Vulture
>Killian not only slightly above Malekith
>Kilgrave being anything but shit
Shit list.

>>93887190
I loved the scene when he wanted to bail after the FBI and Iron Man showed up. That is classic Shocker pragmatism.

>>93879427
Yeah, he wasn't intending on killing the guy, but probably figured afterwards that straight up disintegrating him was simpler than trying to threaten him into not turning on them. The car ride and the prison scene at the end shows he's got that thieves honor thing going on, too.

>>93881771
I loved Cotton Mouth.

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>>93867128
wrong

>>93889777
You say he's wrong, but offer no evidence.

>>93889863
I always thought Vulture should've been in black to begin with, I mean actual vultures can be black but never green so this is weird.
Black suit + movie helmet would be goat tho

>>93890322
It'd fit better with real-world vulture coloring, yeah, but for the film at least it'd make him even harder to see in the night scenes. Good in-universe since he wants a low profile, but bad for the audience.

I agree that the helmet was excellent.

>>93867807
I don't mind the disconnect for the most part considering that most of what the Netflix characters are up to is pretty separate to the events of the wider MCU but it feels like Daredevil and Spidey should get some facetime at least.

I'm sure they could work Holland into Daredevil somewhere. The kid is like 21, I doubt he'd think Netflix stuff is below him.

Also D'Onofrio as Kingpin is choice casting that shouldn't be wasted in one place.

>>93867843
She's a good actor but the trailer didn't give me good vibes. Got the sense that she's gonna be a generic fantasy sorceress villain tbqh.

I get that Marvel's strength is in its comedy but damn Thor has been pretty wasted as a property. Of all the movies in the MCU, they're the ones that feel most like filler. Thor's character arc was pretty much over and done in the first, so there's not much interesting left to do with the character in terms of growth, and there's something flaccid in the world-building around Asgard in the MCU.

>>93890532
>It'd fit better with real-world vulture coloring, yeah, but for the film at least it'd make him even harder to see in the night scenes. Good in-universe since he wants a low profile, but bad for the audience.

He wouldn't be that hard to see if the film is lit well and the shots are planned to be visually striking.

But it's an MCU film so interesting cinematography is by far their weakest point.

>>93882562
Nah, the problem isn't that you don't remember who the villain was, it's that you don't know WHO the villain is. The plots spell out who the bad guy is but in most MCU films they're there pretty much to drive the plot. There's little character because MCU films tend to focus more on developing the protagonists. Which means memorable heroes, sure, but dull bad guys.

>>93867496
I almost wonder if they're building for Tony as a villain, given Avengers 2, Civil War and Homecoming were all essentially about what an outrageous asshole he is. At the least, I would imagine Peter's pedestal of him would shatter something fierce if he ever found out what Civil War was actually about.

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>>93865048
>MCU villains with actual depth
Kingpin
Loki
Ego

>MCU villains where a single scene IMPLIES depth but needed more screentime
Vulture
Zemo

>MCU villains that are really dull and just dark versions of the heroes
Everyone else

lol at the anons constantly pretending Yellowjacket wasn't the ultimate cliche

>>93893296
Yellowjacket wasn't deep at all but was at least fun to watch. Ant-Man is probably the most cartoonish MCU film thus far, and that's why it works so well for me.

Villains like Malkeith and Guy Pierce are cliché, but they don't even manage to be interesting to watch. That's the greatest sin here.

>>93876739
What makes Vulture better than Zemo?

>>93893693
Vulture gets more face time and has more scenes dealing with his motivations as a character. He's also a lot more clever on a moment-by-moment basis: a lot of Zemo's plan wouldn't have worked if Tony didn't do something retarded every time someone makes him feel guilty, while Vulture's only mistakes were that he didn't notice Peter on the way up to the jet and that he didn't wait for the jet to crash to get the goods out and run. Both are understandable mistakes fitting what we've seen about his character previously in the movie. On top of that, Keaton sells the shit out of his performance. Zemo is a perfectly fine villain and does a great job, but I really do love just how smart the Vulture is.

>>93893868

the way he trapped peter, fooled even me.

any theories for how vulture might return?

>>93869625
didn't the dr strange villain have some sort of dead family backstory we never saw?

>>93883372
any return of hammer sounds good to me

>>93894038
>any theories for how vulture might return?
Something something jailbreak something something greater evil takes his family hostage.

I feel like I'm the only guy who liked Ronan

>>93894397
Ronan wasn't bad, he just didn't stand out compared to the other villains or the Guardians themselves. Ego was a much better fit in terms of having a lot of bombast to his personality.

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>>93883372
>>93884003
>>93884099

Do a movie of the Dark Reign storyline so they're real villains and bring back Willem Dafoe for Osborn.

>>93894038
>any theories for how vulture might return?
Wife moves on and find someone else, daughter gets injured or killed in an accident that's blamed on capeshit.

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>>93894397

He was actually a pretty good representation of zealotry. An extremist still butthurt about his people losing a war 1000 years ago and wants to kill everyone who wont bow to his culture, and the more moderate members of his people wash their hands of him and pretend it's not their problem. Also a good turbo straight-man for the end dance-off joke.

>>93894397
Don't worry anon I loved him too.

He's like some over-the-top villain you could have in Warcraft.

Vulture actually being a "vulture" that takes the scraps of the heroes' fights was amazing.

>>93865048
Wow. This really drives home that the villains are the weakest parts of the MCU. Honestly Ultron is probably the best and he came from the weakest movie.

>>93895102
>Ultron is probably the best

hello pleb

>>93895102
>Ultron
>Good
Anon plz. Ultron was completely wasted, apart from his introduction scene.

>>93865048
>Kaicilius was interesting but Dormammu was pretty schway.

Dormammu only has a few minutes of screentime, but in fairness to him those few minutes are the best scene of the movie.

>>93894397
Ronan was kinda like Yellowjacket. There wasn't much character depth there but he was fun to watch at the very least.

>>93890322
spider-man used to be red and black
they changed him to red and blue
vulture is green instead of black
blue pens exist when black is far superior
remember when batman was blue and gray?

How much did black ink used to cost?

>>93889777
He looks like a faggot.

Why do comic faggots insist that 1:1 comic to screen translations would look good? They all have looked like faggots
70's Superman - faggot
Fantastic 4 movies - faggots
Old batman movies - faggot
The "classic" captain america in TFA when he was doing USO stuff - Faggot

Every single movie costume that does its own thing and isn't going for 1:1 is better. The only exception is Spiderman and Iron man

>>93867807
It is canon, Ike is just being a dick.

>Iron Monger
>Good
Fuckin... really? He was the precursor to all the bad MCU villains

He just turns bad with literally no hints that he'd become some insane fuck willing to kill people.

It's just a lightswitch from good to evil like the writers changed in the middle of the movie.

I love Jeff Bridges and it was a good performance, but the character was written so poorly.

>Cross was mostly boring but had good moments like the gun scene in the bathroom
>his actual fight after he gets the Yellow Jacket is really good
>Ant Man as a whole risked being a terrible Iron Man retread but the heist movie framework breathed a ton of new life into the concept
>"...aight so I know this guy"

>>93879457
Well think of it this way anon, if he had no prior air experience what could possibly possess him to go with the vulture wings?

>>93897014
i like the idea he's ex military

though a lot of people dream of flight and would pursue that first if they had alien tech, i certainly would

>>93896755
You're a faggot.

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>>93895444
I am so glad I didn't have that scene spoiled for me. It was a great way to end the movie and gave depth to Strange's character.

>>93896949
I think I was more in awe of Jeff Bridges and his portrayal of a backstabbing partner than what he actually did.

>>93897131
>i like the idea he's ex military
Even though it wasn't ever directly stated, there were enough hints to provide backstory without coming out and saying it. His Top Gun jacket was baller and his speech with Peter at the end was surprisingly sympathetic. I'm actually in awe that Marvel managed to make a villain that I wouldn't have considered being in the top five of Spidey's rogues gallery into my favorite hands down.

>>93892399
I feel like the visuals were maybe the strongest point of Doctor Strange, and that includes the cinematography. It definitely seemed to be a cut above the rest of the MCU at least in that regard.

>>93893609
For me, killian goes a step beyond the blandness of Malekith to put him at an even lower spot, for being ACTIVELY IRRITATING to watch. And not even irritating in a "love to hate" sort of way, but just genuinely actively shitty. Unlike many MCU villains, they bothered to take screentime to outline his personality and motivations, except that his personality and motivations were stupid.

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>>93896949
I disagree on the point of nothing leading up to Stane being bad. He was the most obvious villain of all time from the moment he was introduced.

Whenever he's in a scene with Tony, he invades his personal space and tries to manipulate him by constantly reminding him how great of a man Howard was - all while smoking a big cigar and looking scheming as fuck. .

>>93897543
This. I don't know how anyone looks at Stane's role and feels that him being evil comes out of nowhere when everything in the film foreshadows it.

>select all pictures with bridges
Heh

>>93896949
He was always bad
That's the implication
He uses Tony and keeps him in the dark about the business end of things
He's always been an iron monger, selling to both sides and to immoral factions
The implication that he turned evil implies he was ever good. He's an arms producer, there are very few good people in that business in real life, it's unusual that Tony would have a crisis of conviction given what he saw since most weapons manufacturers would just go back to their previous life and job

>>93897454
This
I liked Whiplash because, despite cutting out most of his scenes (according to Rourke), you can still infer a handful of things about a consistent motive and a clear sense of his psyche
>crying once he loses his father
>building a weapon specifically to counter Iron Man
>getting angry only once he sees how well Howard Stark's kid is doing relative to himself
So you get some sense of his motivation for revenge, standard stuff so far
>steps in front of Formula One cars with almost no regard for his life
>chooses to attack Stark in the international lap of luxury (Monaco)
>shouts "You Lose" even as he's beaten
>displays a sharp understanding of Stark's own crumbling sense of invulnerability
So we get a sense that he's reckless in his pursuit of revenge and understands how he wants to hurt Stark
>get recruited by Hammer
>rebuilds his suits to be controlled by a single individual rather than by men working together
In a film about the protagonist learning to accept his own lack of invincibility and shortcomings and relying on others, Whiplash chooses to still operate alone even though he could ask Hammer for help at any time
>his is rigged to explode if he's defeated
This was sort of interesting for me because it meant he planned this whole mission to be a murder suicide if need be. He had nothing in his life and he chooses to expend the last of his resources to strike and shatter Stark's image and psyche. To Whiplash, that was worth his life

But what does Killian plan to do beyond Kill Stark?

>>93898153
>But what does Killian plan to do beyond Kill Stark
Use extremis to rule the world or something?

>>93897360
Yeah, I agree there. Strange was a standout in the MCU, especially coming after Civil War's incredibly flat cinematography.

I just wish with Strange they broke with formula more and made it a bit darker and y'know, stranger.

>>93898370
But that was my confusion
Why does he want to rule the world?

Also, can I just say how weird Iron Man 3 was? It's a movie about Tony overcoming his PTSD by relearning how capable he is without his suit but all he can do without his suit is hold a guy up with a gun and get captured? Meanwhile his obsession with his suits as a product of his PTSD paranoia is treated as a bad thing but that paranoia is what helps him accomplish anything
>save pepper by using his newly developed suit attachment tech (inspired by PTSD)
>remotely operating his suit to save the plane passengers (PTSD inspired
>uses his myriad of suits to beat Killian's army (all PTSD inspired)
>escapes Killian's clutches after being useless without his suit, by using his suit

Like if anything, the whole movie should have proved that he's right to be ruled over by his PTSD paranoia and he's completely incapable of doing anything of merit without his wealth of technology

>>93898506
>>93898370
>>93898153
He plans to puppet master the War on Terror from both sides, controlling the Ten Rings and America, and get even richer doing so.

It's realistic as an evil goal, but fails to leave an impression because it's neither a spectacle (like Loki's alien invasion) nor small enough to be relateable (like Vulture's plans).

>>93898506
>Also, can I just say how weird Iron Man 3 was? It's a movie about Tony overcoming his PTSD by relearning how capable he is without his suit but all he can do without his suit is hold a guy up with a gun and get captured? Meanwhile his obsession with his suits as a product of his PTSD paranoia is treated as a bad thing but that paranoia is what helps him accomplish anything
It's by far the weakest of the Iron Man films, to me, and those are great reasons why.

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>>93898506
Killian more or less stated that he wanted a world on the edge of paranoia, every side desperate for his new weaponry in a brand new arms race, thus making him the most important and powerful man in the world.

I mean, he actually monologues about this in the movie. Do you people actually watch cape films or what?

>>93898153
you forgot, most importantly:
>loves his burd

>>93898506
tru
technically, if he hadn't been a fuckhead to killain in the first place, he wouldn't have needed the suit

>>93898606
Yeah but I didn't get why
I get why he hated Tony, they show as much

but what pushed him to want to dominate the world? WHY does he want to do all that other shit?

I mean I can accept that he's doing it cause he's the villain and they want to raise stakes but that hurts his character complexity in my book compared to even Whiplash or Stane

>>93898707
>but what pushed him to want to dominate the world? WHY does he want to do all that other shit?
They show him pre-extremis as a hesitant, underconfident nerd who's routinely ignored or dismissed. He saw himself as someone gifted who's talents were never going to be recognized.

Jeezus, you really haven't seen this since you saw it in theaters at the age of ten, but I bet you've spent all these intervening years shitting on it.

>>93872455
I think it's more of oppositional screen presence. He plays the role of a villain for most of the movie, and he's really effective in that role.

>>93898606
>I mean, he actually monologues about this in the movie. Do you people actually watch cape films or what?
>>93898707
>but what pushed him to want to dominate the world? WHY does he want to do all that other shit?

Well if the original script wasn't rejected by Ike, then Mandarin would have been Maya Hansen. And SHE would have plenty of reasons being the Mandarin. Tony fucked her then just left not even saying good morning. Killian literally wasn't meant to exist.

>>93872455
He's absolutely the villain as long as he's switched to Hydra Kill Mode.

That's like claiming The Werewolf isn't "the villain" because he becomes reasonable by day.

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>>93877402
>Faora's ridiculous monologuing about her "superior evolution" when she's the result of over a thousand years of eugenics.
No villain speech is worse than that. Not a single one. It's the dumbest one I've ever heard, and it's below even the generic cliched ones like "I will destroy you x hero!" Because those at least make sense. This one was bafflingly wrong on every level.

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>>93898826
>Tony fucked her then just left not even saying good morning.
Anon, one day, just maybe, you will get to fuck a woman. And you'll find that it takes more than that to transform them into a world-threatening Super-villain.

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>>93889777

He desperately needs some kind of beaked helmet.

>>93898846
He's no more a villain than his guns are villains. He's effectively an attack drone as the Winter Soldier. An object, not a person.

He's an obstacle like an avalanche, but not a villain like Pierce.

>>93898592
>It's realistic as an evil goal, but fails to leave an impression because it's neither a spectacle (like Loki's alien invasion) nor small enough to be relateable (like Vulture's plans).

I'd say it fails to leave an impression because it's also not really developed in an interesting way.

It's just 'yo I want to get rich and also you were an asshole 10 year ago Tony' in the space of about 5 minutes, boom, fight scene, dead.

>>93898911
>Anon, one day, just maybe, you will get to fuck a woman. And you'll find that it takes more than that to transform them into a world-threatening Super-villain.
It is at least making more sense than Killian.

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>>93898905
Goyer scripts in a sort of stream-of-consciousness babble that makes little goddamn sense to anyone.

You end up with Zod, spending 30 years visiting barren planetoids that the Krytonian colonies failed on, arrives at a lush world brimming with every possible luxury, teeming with weak, low-tech potential slaves, where the atmosphere allows them to have the power of Gods.....

And his grand plan is to burn it all down, kill every life form with poison atmosphere, and recreate the shitty world he got imprisoned for rebelling against in the first fucking place.

Christ.

>>93881771
Goddamnit stop making me laugh

>>93898766
How does a desire to be recognized translate to a desire to start an arms race though?
See, I get why he built his image and company the way he did, he's trying to usurp Tony's position and image and life

But then all the taking over the world shit doesn't follow from that character arc unless he viewed that as part of Tony's legacy too
I mean I mention Iron Man3 cause I just rewatched it the other night and I started noticing the weaknesses in characterization (I love Shane Black and his directing style but the script is at fault here)
Can you forward me to a scene that shows why Killian went from semi-altruistic to world domineering

Or is he doing all the terrorist attacks just to lure Tony out?

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>>93898986
Killian is someone who's probably been rejected and marginalized since Jr. High School.
He's awkward, unattractive, and resentful.

Maya is incredibly hot AND a genius.
She's not going to flip her shit because the bachelor billionaire she threw herself into bed with didn't want to stay and make her breakfast and maybe form a long term relationship.
She just wanted to fuck Tony Stark.

>>93898968
It'd be interesting to see Stane having to deal with the struggles of keeping Stark Industries alive and then Tony sweeps in and picks it up and takes the credit for making it successful
Building off of that, seeing Stane sweat over Tony shutting down its weapons division to focus on his super hero work would round out the "initial motivation-motivation to opposition" process that we see with Vulture and most solid MCU villains

>>93899135
I liked Killian initially but I just didn't get why he did all the arms race shit.
I also would have just liked it if he had a better connection to the true Mandarin, maybe he got the initial Extremis design from him and then took his place Ras AlGhul style

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>>93899093
>How does a desire to be recognized translate to a desire to start an arms race though?

Fame is the motivation behind Justin Hammer.
Justin wanted to be the popular playboy that that had crowds cheering for him and women lusting for him.

Killian wanted Tony's Importance and Power. He wanted the leaders of the world begging for scraps of his technology the way the US government was desperate for Stark's help.

>>93898915
He should just look more ugly. Go more for a fucking creep vibe.

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I hope they bring Zola back. Just so this kickass concept art isn't wasted.

>>93898506
IM3 is really disjointed. On one hand, it wants to take PTSD, suicide bombings and the issue of war veterans coming home borderline insane only to end up as junkies seriously, with added visual references to Hiroshima and other atrocious war acts + act as an commentary on the nature of propaganda.

On the other hand it's a lighthearted action movie where Tony has a kid sidekick, quips while under the assumption the love of his life just fell into a vat of lava and the final villain's main motivation for hating Tony is he stood him up on New Year's eve.

Tony's PTSD is also thrown straight out of the window for little reason. It's never resolved. he just gets over it because it was convenient in the final fight, only for it to seemingly return in AOU.

I feel like Black was writing a much darker story, but Disney wanted more quips.

>>93899219
All three Iron Man movie villains are Failed Tony Starks.
Obidiah envied his incredible Genius and father's legacy.
Justin Hammer envied his charm and celebrity.
Aldrich Killian envied his position as the linchpin of the Free World's security.

Even Vanko is seeking vengeance for a father who was cheated out of his share of Howard's legacy. In a way he has been robbed of the opportunity and wealth that bouyed Tony's rise.

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>>93899261
I want Zola as the mastermind behind a Masters of Evil, using a False Ultron as his stand-in.

>>93899346
At the same time most of his rogues gallery consists of business rivals and employees who "survived" an industrial accidents.

>>93899219
Cool
I suspected it might be something like that but I didn't see many scenes to confirm it but that's a solid motivation

Again, if only the movie did something to suggest it...maybe have him talk to the Hydra senator and compare himself favorably against Stark Industries.

>>93899334
>I feel like Black was writing a much darker story, but Disney wanted more quips.
Oh no, that's not just a feeling anon, you're entirely on the money.

Black's original treatment would have been R-rated. Fuck, he wanted a scene where Killian seduced Pepper with super-pheremones or some shit and broadcasted himself fucking her on live TV just to fuck with Tony.

Considering that Killian was originally gonna be Maya Hansen, that coulda been pretty hot actually.

Fucking Perlmutter desu.

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>>93899394
I really really like this idea.

Now that they have 16 movies under their belt, is there any villain that you would love to see in future movies? It can relate to any of the series that have already come out but can't be a villain to a hero that hasn't premiered yet. Personally, I would love to see Count Nefaria portrayed but I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

>>93881771
He said MCU anon, not Mnot-CU

>>93899518
Again, he literally has this monologue that lays out his desire to be the feared, respected and powerful guy pulling the strings.

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>>93899647
Nefaria could never be as fear-inspiring as Man of Murder.

Vulture > Loki >> Ego >>> everybody else > Ronan > Malekith
I identified more with Toomes than I did with Peter in the movie.

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I've seen this debated a couple times, but who do you think would win in a fight? Falcon or Vulture? I think Vulture would end up taking the victory but he'd have to work for it.

>>93899800
HA!

>>93870469
All of this is why Vulture as a villain and the movie as a whole is one of the best cape movies to date.

>>93900131
Vulture
Falcon's suit is primarily to augment his normal physical abilities and marksmanship
He acts as light-air support for the Avengers in urban areas

Vulture's suit is akin to a small jet fighter with melee capabilities along with vulture's own space lasers

>>93900131
Falcon, from the scenes we've seen him in vs aircraft, is faster and far more maneuverable.

Vulture is more heavily armored and physically powerful.

Really, it would depend on how each is armed. If it's Vulture with Chitauri guns vs Falcon with conventional guns, then Vulture. If Falcon shows up with Stark weaponry he'll easily take the pokey Vulture.

>>93900131
If both had guns, I'd bet on Vulture

Unarmed, Vulture again

>>93870469
This.

The Vulture isn't a villain per se, just an everyman in a fucked up world trying his earnest to give his family the best life he can.
It felt good when he killed the first Shocker, since it established what kind of man he was. He's not the flashy kind of super villain who is a retard and attracts everyone's attention, but a man who comprehends his limits and plays it safe to achieve his goal, pretty smart considering everyone else in the MCU is basically "HURRRR I'M EVIL KNEEEL BEFORE ME!!!".

>Doctor Strange
>Kaicilius was interesting but Dormammu was pretty schway.
Kaecilius was underdeveloped as fuck.
They should've left the church and when he kills one of the zealots scenes.

Dormammu was more of a cocktease from my point of view.

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>>93900268
>The Vulture isn't a villain per se
He's selling advanced weaponry to known criminals, even murderous sociopaths like Gargan. Even the street thug guy looking to buy some regular guns was taken aback.

He's completely a villain.

>>93900616
Arms dealers aren't villains. He's a good boy who dindu nuffin.

>>93900616
So do the USA.

>>93900616
Yeah, he's just a less cartoonish/inhuman villain . He doesn't do bad shit just to be bad or because he feels Stark fucked him, his main goal was to take care of his family and crew.

Then again, I feel the movie also showed us he might have begun doing it for his own gains or because he got a thrill out of it, because he wasn't just providing for his family, they were living in a fucking mansion.

>>93900616
Vulture did nothing Stark isn't guilty of in spades

>>93900902
>his main goal was to take care of his family and crew
spot the thug

>>93900902
>because he wasn't just providing for his family, they were living in a fucking mansion.
You are aware you need money to keep your way of living, right? Especially if you have a mansion-owner kind of life.
It never seemed to me he was getting a thrill at doing villain stuff, he kills the first Shocker for doing so even, he was completely driven by greed under the excuse of keeping his family safe.

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>>93900955
Stark got super butthurt when he realized Obie had been dealing under the table with criminals.

Sandpeople aren't real people and flame-throwing them to death is an act of heroic patriotism.

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>>93900131
Falcon looks like such a joke now, holy shit.

I hope he saw Vulture on the news and said "I need an upgrade"

>>93892376
I've always thought the reason Asgard was so flaccid in the MCU was because they couldn't go all in on the mythology without risking the wrath of American Evangelicals. A big reason for the MCU's success is that it at least attempts to cater to literally everyone and the second say, Odin goes on one of his Comic rants about how he is the Almighty and the true creator of the world and better than Jesus and isn't immediately humiliated, is the moment they lose a lot of their audience. So instead they had to just make it a generic fantasy aliens place and try to work around it.

>>93900955
Tony was selling to the government and using that funding for constructive projects and research. His board was selling to the Ten Rings and other mother fuckers to get even more rich. If you want to talk about Stark being a fuck up, look at Ultron or Civil War, but not fucking selling guns to randoms.

>>93901124
>"I need an upgrade"
After the fight with Ant-Man he should've thought that.

Source material aside a white and red full-armored Falcon suit would be cool to see.

>>93901166
>His board was selling to the Ten Rings and other mother fuckers
So, he didn't care where those guns were going and instead he was self indulging on his own shit? Gotcha.

Tell that to Toomes and the Maximoff brothers.

>>93899703
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88B3OtneJPY
This one?
I sort of get what he's saying but I'm still not sure how his Desperation follows into his desire to control the world.

I understand the idea you're selling and I wager that's what they were going for but I'm not finding a lot of material in the movie itself that suggests such

I mean if we're comfortable pulling connections that are that implicit, then other villains become more substantial by similar associations with their hero

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>>93901210

>>93901210
Tony isn't too smart in most aspects. He was naive and thought Stane was his friend.

>>93901166
Tony was selling ot the government and using that funding to develop more weapons to sell to the government.

The Jericho missile was literally the first thing we see that uses repulsor tech so we have to assume that Tony designed it himself.

And Tony could have seen that weapons shipments were being sold to people he wouldnt have approved of if he looked at the ledger, it's clear that Tony didn't care much about how his weapons were being sold until he was shown proof up close

>>93901348
Stark is still responsible for what happens with the products of his company.
Regardless, his incompetence cost lives.

>>93865048
>gay for older men, the list

>>93901419
>having to point out someone in /co/ has daddy issues
Your newfag surely is showing.

>>93869659
fucking christ battleborne is hideous

>>93901368
>One guy should double check all the paper work in his international mega corp

And he was developing genetically engineered crops to deal with world hunger with his funding. That was his second fucking scene, anon. Do you just not remember?

>>93901534
>actually defending Stark
Yeah, because a few rice fields will unbomb cities, right?
The MCU Earth would be better off if Stark was dead.

>>93876883

9/10, he didn't even try to sound like a Frenchman

>>93901610
Good.

Frenchmen sound like complete faggots.

>>93878277

Kilgrave was easily in good tier. Where's Diamondback?

>>93901584
Earth would potentially have been invaded if Stark was dead.

>>93901534
I remember him bragging about medical tech to the blonde reporter

I agree that he couldn't have checked all the paper work but given that we see the Ten Rings having Jericho's later on, missing shipments of the most advanced weaponry would have come to the CEO's attention

New military weaponry isn't produced in such bountiful amounts that missing units are chalked up to something falling off a truck or a mistake on the ledger. They're like custom cars, they're sold to individual clients rather than through some shop.

>>93878922
I'll never understand why people didn't like Diamondback. Sure he was cheesy but without his hammy overacting the second half would have been boring as fuck

>>93901710
Because of his stunt with the Nuke?
I agree it helped but at the same time, consider the fact that most of Starks enemies, people who potentially do massive damage to the lives of others, are the product of Starks' own actions

I disagree with the anon however. I do believe that the earth is, on a net number of lives, better off because Stark was able to handle the nuke and therefore stop the invasion.

>>93887190

>Shocker
>smart guy

I haven't read every single one of his appearances but he's always either a coward or a loser. The one Vulture killed was good

>>93890322
Green is THE color for Spidey villains
>Green Goblin
>Doc Ock
>Sandman
>Vulture
>Mysterio
>Scorpion
>Electro
>the Lizard
And probably others I'm forgetting

>>93901667

Batroc IS a complete faggot tho

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Here's a fun little thread bump: let's list out a dream execution for a villain of our choice.

How would you want to set up the back story, motivation and interaction of a particular villain? Flex those creative muscles

>>93902119
I really want Marvel to keep using Spidey villains that haven't been in a movie yet but at the same time Venom really deserves another chance

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>>93902119
I'd love to see Kraven the Hunter portrayed in a Spidey film and I would use The Lizard as a secondary villain that leads Kraven to New York. Kraven sees The Lizard as the largest prey he could face so far and Spidey will be forced to intervene because he knows of The Lizard's true origin. Because of this he's places himself on Kraven's radar. Eventually he begins to realize that Spider-Man would be the tougher challenge and then devotes his attention to breaking Spider-Man and mounting his head on his wall. The movie will end with Kraven drugging Spidey and then placing him on a secluded island so he can go "The Most Dangerous Game" on his ass and Spidey will be forced to face someone that is in their element while he struggles to capture Kraven without resorting to lethal force.

This is just an idea I whipped together but I feel like it could support a movie.

>>93902233
I'd see it.

>>93866810
Dude. Keaton's Vulture literally scrapped alien tech together and made a fully functional flight suit. It's not gonna look pretty. It just needs to do the job.

>>93902233

Why not Vermin or maybe even Morbius instead of Lizard?

>>93902346
I feel like if I were to choose Vermin too many people would try and make a connection with this being an adaptation of Kraven's Last Hunt. Morbius however would be an inspired choice and I think would add a horror element to Spider-Man that has never been seen before.

>>93902156
>Venom
>Eddie Brock introduced as an Asian student at the same school as Peter
>His home life shows a verbally abusive relationship with his parents who only regard him relative to his academic and extra-curricular success.
>It's revealed he already has the venom symbiote bonded to him and has been fighting his hatred over his toxic relationship with his paents

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Because of the success of the Vulture, I feel like Marvel could implement some of the less popular Spidey villains. Scorpion would be a fascinating addition as a mook that was specifically engineered to be face off against Spider-Man and while he was initially successful in their first encounter (nearly beating him to death before his mutant physiology causes him to lose control). After the first encounter he gradually starts going insane as a result of the procedure and hunts down the scientists that made him this way in an attempt to go back. It would be a great opportunity to introduce Oscorp as the company that bank-rolled the operation and at the end of the movies its revealed that the Scorpion is just one of many of Osborn's projects.

This would definitely be a straightforward story but would be interesting to see Spidey go up against a villain that's his superior in every way, shape, and form.

>>93902156
Supposedly there's a possibility Venom could show up in the MCU if his standalone movie does well. Personally I really want to see Mysterio, Mr. Negative, or even a new Kingpin.

>>93869231
Grant Ward did NOTHING wrong

>>93902537
Considering how much time they put into setting him up I'd be surprised if he's not in the next Spiderman movie, especially with the Tinkerer still at large to build his suit.

>>93902119
Build up the Reverse Flash by having him make subliminal appearances in the first Flash film. Like single frames.

>>93902742
That'd be super fun. Just in various spots, whenever some little thing goes wrong he's there for a frame inciting it.

>>93902794
I think that'd catch audiences off guard since they expect something big.

>>93902389
>I feel like if I were to choose Vermin too many people would try and make a connection with this being an adaptation of Kraven's Last Hunt

That was my intention. The ending is way too hardcore to be in a mainstream Spider-Man movie but with a little tweaking it's a solid story

>>93902572

Venom, Mysterio (SO much potential) or maybe Morbius with horror elements. Hammerhead and the Enforcers would make great secondary villains. Chameleon also opens up tons of possibilities. Either way, I'm okay with any villain except the fucking Goblin again

>>93902233
Sounds interesting.
Sounds like you can mix a bit of a Heart of Darkness, Thriller film with the Super Hero genre.
It's come to my attention the limitations of the Super Hero Genre in terms of where it pulls its core conflicts and motivations and character growth from. It seems many flicks find the exit to be one of the following
>Deconstruction (Logan a bit too)
>Genre Mixing (Logan and Ant Man and Winter Soldier)
>Make a self-sustaining film (Spiderman 2 for instance)
>Dig Deeper into the genre (Dr. Strange)

The Super Hero Genre is, at its core, the origin story formula. It's about the hero being brought low by some flaw of their own, brought up by their powers which act as a tangible medium for their character and personality to be their strength in the real world.
Sequels with the genre work so long as the powers continue to evolve as the character evolves.

This is just a spiel I was thinking about given that I was trying to lock on to what narrative patterns and beats define the super hero genre

>>93902537
I can see Scorpion being the cold open for the next Spidey movie

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>>93903257
I definitely wouldn't choose this as an origin story as there are too many moving parts, but a 2nd or third movie would be schweet. In the context of this movie, we could have Spidey's spider-sense to be the power pushed to its limits as he would be entering an environment that he doesn't quite understand with traps that are absolutely horrifying. If anything I would take nods from the end of the first Predator movie. Even with all of Spidey's strenght, speed, and agility. I want him completely out of his element in the final confrontation with Kraven and he forces himself to go far beyond what audiences would expect from a Spider-Man flick. I wouldn't have Spidey rip of Kraven's face (although that may change) but everything "less" than that would be fare game.

>>93903512
That would be pretty cool but I don't want him to be used and then tossed away like Rhino in the most recent Amazing Spider-Man 2.

>>93887190
Vulture was more like Shocker from Superior foes. Nigga Shocker was way too stoic.

>>93903112
Mysterio but only if they actually use technical effects for his stunts.

>>93903811
I wonder how having Spiderman become such a hardened survivalist would affect later films including him.
I like the idea of Kraven acting as this un-negotiating force that acts for its own sake. No direct relationship with spiderman but more in line with Civil War's "Power invites challenge" idea.

>>93882562
Nice try, feggit

>>93904050
Love it. If anything it would cause Spidey to buck the fuck up and approach all future enemies with a mindset that these guys would kill me the moment they get the chance and that forces him to reevaluate how he approaches every enemy from then on out.

Quipping wouldn't be out of nerviousness and fear but instead to operate as a mindgame to cause them to slip up.

>>93904305
Well and you can have Spiderman actually get angry at Tony for bringing him into this huge world that, especially after the Vulture, he realizes how out of his depth he is.

>Beats Kraven
>Took literally everything Peter had
>Took his human dignity from him as he reverted to pure instinct for a week
>And nothing but a Cat and Mouse game between him and Kraven
>Approaches Stark right after, without going home or seeing his friends
>His suit is in tatters and he's got a makeshift spear he nearly killed Kraven with gripped in his hand
>"Why did you have to choose me?"
>Everybody Hates Iron Man is filmed before a live studio audience

>>93900131
Falcon got his wing ripped off by Bucky
Spidey casually caught bucky's punch and twisted it without even trying
Vulture rekted Spidey's shit multiple times#
Vulture wins

>>93902233
In my ideal world Kraven would be a background villain for the first trilogy, then do kraven's last hunt for the fourth film

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>>93904518
FUcking love it. The idea of Spidey forced to confront Kraven over the time span of a couple days rather than just a single encounter would be ballin. I want to see Spidey pushed to his absolute limits and if anything recreate the ending of "The Most Dangerous Game". While his final encouter with Kraven starts with him getting his ass handed to him Spidey finally breaks and goes on the offensive. Stalking Kraven in his private sanctuary (a house he had built on the island which implies this isn't the first time he's pulled this shit) before beating him to a pulp.

The more I think about it the more I begin to realize that Marvel could do something truly unique with Kraven that would frighten the MCU due to the sheer viciousness and brutality that Kraven could offer. Kraven doesn't quip. Kraven doesn't banter. Kraven hunts and doesn't stop till either his prey is dead or he is.

>>93904571
HAZAH!

>>93904731
What would you do for the first three. I ike the idea of having Kraven be a later villain but three films might be pushing it. I feel liek most audiences wouldn't believe that Kraven could go up against a Spidey with three films of experience under his belt while you and I know that Kraven is NOT to be fucked with. /CO/ audiences would understand but the average movie goes might be scratching their head on how this average man could go up against someone that could take Captain America (assuming he was going all out).

>>93901674
>Kilgrave was easily in good tier.
Kilgrave was fucking abysmal and impossible to take seriously as a threat. I don't understand why you faggots hype him up so much. He was garbage.
Diamonback is also awful.

>>93901821
Both were pretty good, I thought. I liked how the second one started gradually wearing more of the classic Shocker costume under his clothes as it went on.

>>93904803
Well and a character permanently dealing with the trauma of it.
See, what also got under my skin was how easily IM3 wrapped up Tony's PTSD.
I think the strength of an on-going serial series like the MCU is that you can have prolonged character development and let that have staying power over installments. I'd like it if they used it more like they seemed to in IM3.

Any inventive takes on Venom? Carnage?
I'd like it if they kept digging into the theme of a villain and using that as inspiration for how they build the character's back story and personality and motivation.

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>>93906551
The biggest issue with Venom and Carnage isn't the symbiotes themselves, but how they decide introduce them. So far, it seems like we have one of two options. Option 1 is to do what the animated series did and have it be an alien that is brought to earth after a space mission that went wrong. The other is to have it be a creation of Peter and Eddie's parents (which I actually enjoyed). As much hate as Bendis gets, using his Venom story as the basis for a Spider-Man movie (especially with Peter this young) would be fucking brilliant. Venom would naturally be introduced before Carnage and I really want Peter and Eddie's relationship to be fleshed out over the course of 2 or so movies. Unless they plan on having him be the central villain in a movie with no other antagonists, I have little faith movies could provide enough characterization to make us understand Venom's motivations beyond "I hate Spidey". There either needs to be a perceived sense of portrayal (SPectacular SPider-Man) or have Eddie's life be in absolute shambles as a result of Peter's superheroism. That said, while the Ultimate version didn't have Venom stalking Peter and infiltrating his personal life I think the Animated Series succeed in that regard and made him much more of a terrifying threat.

Venom isn't just some brusier with Spider powers. He's a bonded couple that both have a hatred for Spider-Man. Venom should bring fear to Spider-Man for multiple reasons (stronger, faster, and doesn't set off spider-sense) and portraying that in a movie for an audience to understand is going to be an endevour. His design in Ultimate Universe would be an interesting setup and having his suit morph throughout the movie would be a very unique twist (like Peter's suit evolving over the course of the last three episodes in Spectacular Spider-Man). Only after Venom is successfuly introduced would I even consider adding Carnage and having them both in teh same movie seems like a recipe for disaster.

>>93907749
Like I said before, the essence of Super Hero stories is that powers are like Stands or Personas: they're physical stand-ins for psychological or metaphorical characterization.

What I would find interesting is to look into what a symbiotic relationship is, design one for Brock with both Peter and potentially other characters (I still like my 'Eddie has a toxic relationship with two over-bearing, success-oriented tiger parents' rewrite) where his symbiote twists and becomes more and more perverse in how its twists his body.

I didn't read the Bendis run for Ultimate Spiderman, what makes Peter and Eddie's relationship good? Make your case for what it does well with Eddie and Peter and the Venom symbiote

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>>93908098
It's really hard to explain what makes the Ultimate version as enjoyable as it is. It completely reworked Peter and Eddie's relationship by having a SIGNIFICANTLY more personal relationship between the two and that friendship served as the groundwork for the story and what was to come. I know this isn't really saying anything so hang around /co/ tomorrow and I'll storytime the Venom Arc. It should happen around 7PM EST. I'll also try to do the Carnage story because I felt the symbiotes were very uniquely portrayed in the Ultimate Universe in a way not previously seen in other iterations.

Bendis later concocted a sequel to his original Venom story in the game Ultimate Spider-Man which released on PS2 and Gamecube which I felt was a much stronger continuatiion than what we were given in "War of the Symbiotes" in the later issues. The game provides a streamlined version of the original story in the first five minutes so if you want an introduction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfATOsMPM-o

>>93908644
You don't have to storytime it, I know those can be pretty time consuming.
This video you provided should be enough to give me the gist and a general sense of this angle's strengths.

I will say it might be a bit difficult to work this version of Eddie and Venom into the Homecoming spiderman...would have fit much better with Amazing, which I wager is what they were going for

>>93908849
I really want to though. It was a great set of issues and it's been a while since I've read them. And I totes agree that the Amazing Movies would have more easily incorporated the symbiotes as that series had a much stronger sci-fi undertone than the prior Raimi movies.

>>93907749
>The other is to have it be a creation of Peter and Eddie's parents (which I actually enjoyed). As much hate as Bendis gets, using his Venom story as the basis for a Spider-Man movie (especially with Peter this young) would be fucking brilliant.
That is probably what will happen. MCU Spidey is based off the ultimate one.

>>93901076
>he kills the first Shocker for doing so
he didn't kill him 'for' anything, he thought it was a gravity gun. it was an accident.

>>93910042

that was.. akward.

the movie is finally out in my country, but i can hardly discuss it because the hype died down

>>93869324
Holy fuck

>>93878277
>Kilgrave
>Shit Tier

T. Contrarian

Before Vulture Kilgrave was EASILY the best MCU villain, if you count the Netflix shows.

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>>93899346
literally when you consider hammer's actor was cast because he was a runner up for the iron man role

>>93899597
they probably didn't want a rape scene in a movie partially marketed to teenagers

>>93899647
the brain and his gorilla lover

>>93896755
>70's Superman - faggot

You shut your fucking mouth

>>93876984
You realized you mentioned Yellowjacket twice

>>93912006
>le contrarian meme
Fuck off. He was a pathetic, cartoonish, unintimidating manchild with a boring motivation and cringeworthy dialogue.
He was fucking garbage you low standards-having fuck.