Do you prefer the Riddler to being willing to kill civilians, or no?

>>93835145
I'm ok if he is willing to kill villains if batman or whoever fails one of his riddles/tests but I'm not ok with him just killing people for no reason. Johns Earth One riddler is a bit of a tricky one for me as he does kill a lot of people but he does it out of anger because batman solved his riddles rather than just because. In saying that I'm not ok with any batman villain killing for no reason outside of the penguin since all the other main rogues have clear motives and reasons when they kill usually.

>>93835145

I like Eddie best when he's riddlin' and not so much killing. I think he's at his worst when he's being 'psycho'.

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Without killing

He's insane, so any justification he has to kill or not kill will be tied entirely to his mental illness and not make much sense.

so basically anyone who makes fun of his stupid puzzles or to add a dramatic flair to the puzzle or because they're batman.

>>93835145
I don't want him to actively and maliciously kill but he shouldn't give a fuck about people.

Him seeing people as "too dumb to live" or if you were smart you wouldn't get hurt callousness is better.

So less joker more self absorbed dickhead

>>93835145
Hey if they were just a little smarter they wouldn't be dead.

>>93835145
Yes but they should't overdo it and make him a discount Joker who just kills people violently for no reason.
Riddler doesn't care about people, he's too self-absorbed for it. If he does kill, it should be via accidents in the middle of his crime sprees.

>>93836367
This page is garbage and proof that Neil Gaiman has no idea what he's talking about.
Riddler was the biggest psycho in the show, the ONLY villain who was at least a little bit intimidating. Joker stole a lot of his current traits from Frank Gorshin's Riddler

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I want detective riddler back,it let's riddler have a unique role in the mythos,be an arrogant twit and less of a jobber

The Riddler should be a fucking loser in every respect who clings to his saving grace that he's smarter than Batman as a point of misplaced pride.

should the Joker kill people?

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Anyone else prefer this costume?

>>93839241
The Joker should be willing to kill people purely for the sake of his plans, they should never be the end goal though.

Like, if Joker's evil plan fell through before he got to the part where he kills people, I'd imagine he'd just grumpily dismiss his hostages without even addressing them. But I think he'd have to nevlect to acknowledge them as people for it to work.

>>93839241
>Should Villains kill people or should they just mildly inconvenience people?
That's the question of the Day O guess.

>>93835145
>>93839241
Yes, but not King's level of killhappy ffs.

I don't give a shit if they kill people or not as long as you don't think juvenile childish cartoonish edgy violence has any sort of dramatic impact in this century.

If the cliffhanger of your issue is Batman sneaking into Riddler's hideout when suddenly, "No.. this feels wrong..." LE BATMAN SHOCKED FACE, "Oh my god... he didn't.... he couldn't.... 567 kidnapped orphans all brutally mutilated and stabed 4,568 times each! Suddenly... nothings funny anymore..." I probably won't be picking up the next issue.

>>93839209

I like the idea of a detective rival for Batman that's actually capable of showing him up. Sexton was good for that during the Dickbats time.

>>93839225
I never got this point of view, loke what's the point?
>i want my villains to be one-note losers
>i want the same story of them being pathetic losers
>i want absolutely no investment in the character or the outcome of the story

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>>93839241
Yes. Joker has been a murderer for the majority of his history.
But he should kill people when it's funny. And not "haha he's killing for no reason because it's funny to him". I mean something like how pic related puts it.
And killing for killing's sake should not be his end goal.

Joker's primary appeal as a character should never be how dangerous he is or how gruesome and edgy his murders are. Any villain can do that. The original Joker was just a Moriarty/Hugo Strange in clown paint, and then he developed into a unique character.
Joker should stand out because of his comedy and weirdness, things that he does that no one else would even think of doing. He's got an imagination that can go where no other character's can, and he can tell jokes based on genuinely sick topics that nevertheless wind up making us laugh.
But nowadays he's just a more random Mr.Zsasz reliant on shock value and popularity.

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>>93839225
This is a terrible idea. And that's exactly what the character has endured over the past years, thanks to people like Denny O'Neil.
Riddler is never going to be actually smarter than Batman, because Batman is always going to best him in any games he puts out.
He shouldn't be an all invincible murderer, either.

Riddler works best as a wild card. And a genuine wild card, one obsessed with orderly games, not like the Joker who's obsessed with chaos and jokes and claims to be a wild card but is painfully predictable most of the time.
Like how he is in the comic Run Riddler Run (pic related), or when he was briefly acting as a detective.

Riddler should be weird. He should be goofy, and playful, and most of all, irritating.
But he should not be a joke. He's been one for far too long and he's capable of much more

I liked Riddler in the Arkham games. I liked his voice, I liked that he built elaborate death-traps Batman had to save people from, and I liked his costume.

>>93835145
Only as a part of his theme. Nigma just killing people is lame. But if he kills them because they couldn't solve his riddles then that is fine.

>>93835145
I'm fine with him killing people like any other crime boss, but I don't like the serial killer "anyone who sees me must die" attitude he's got going on in Batman currently. Since this is a story of things that happened in the past I wonder if he'll decide to calm down afterwards.

>>93839326
>>93839820
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree, I don't think he's been killing that many people and that most of his violence has been utilitarian

>>93839730

Yeah, I think that Riddler was the perfect kind of Riddler that I wish we were seeing in the current Batman run.

He's more of a guy who's just rather obsessed with riddles, and over time, becomes increasingly more mad over the fact that the Batman keeps on solving his riddles to the point where he doesn't care about the lives of others, as long as he can beat Batman in his games of riddles and tricks.

I like that a lot more than Riddler just being a guy who happens to be an insane serial killing psychopath that loves riddles.

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>>93835145
I feel like, at his core, The Riddler should not be a joke. But he should be annoying. Someone who Batman genuinely hates in a way that goes beyond "he is evil and I have to stop him".
In every story I've read in which the Riddler was a law-abiding citizen, who was nonetheless still doing his thing, The Riddler pisses off Batman simply by being The Riddler.
If the Joker stops being homicidal and insane, he stops being the Joker; ditto Two-Face, whom Bruce still holds out hope could simply become Harvey again.

But Edward Nygma is the Riddler whether he's committing crimes or fighting them, as illustrated here >>93839209
and in a way, he's fucking with Batman by doing so. Because Batman, while he may have honed his body to perfection and whatever, when he's on the Justice League or dealing with crime, in the face of people with superpowers, he has always stood out as the clever one.
The Riddler is an affront to Batman's status on a moral level, because unlike someone like Lex Luthor or Ra's al Ghul, the ONLY thing the Riddler cares about is being smarter than Batman. We've seen Lex on a number of occasions where he actually kind of regards Batman with an almost collegial respect, as a similarly driven individual, same with Ra's al Ghul, who Batman understands even if he doesn't agree with.

But Eddie has no such drive. He's never sacrificed or sworn vengeance on anyone. His rivalry with Batman is because it entertains him. Eddie barely even has to try to come up with his brain-twisting riddles. He's barely insane, he's not even that homicidal.
Imagine being a superhero whose entire identity revolves around being the most quick-witted man in the room, and you have to bust your ass to beat some smirking fucko who's treating your battle about as seriously as a game of checkers, and then, when you do finally beat him, he goes "Great game, old chum! Looking forward to it again!"

That's The Riddler.

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>>93840631
Ding dong we have a winner.

>>93839422
Does the very next page show the Joker killing that dude? It would be a punchline after his explanation

>>93838638
>Riddler was the biggest psycho in the show, the ONLY villain who was at least a little bit intimidating.
so who he kill? That's the bigger context of the page.

>>93841858
the whole scene isn't real. It's from "Whatever happen to the cape crusader" issue #686

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>>93837519
>>93837526
This, basically.

Even in his original appearance, Riddler didn't give a fuck.

>>93841954
No, the bigger context of that page is Riddler acting as a mouthpiece for nostalgia, and depicting Riddler as a has-been from that era.
Every Riddler thread someone posts that page to make a statement that "the REAL Riddler would never kill anyone", which is just blatantly false. It's about as ridiculous as saying Killer Moth was always a joke villain.
And while Riddler never killed anyone in the show (nor did anyone), the idea that he is somehow horrified over the prospect of murder is ludicrous considering in his very first appearences he used lethal death traps as this post shows >>93842196

>>93841954
His henchgirl, Molly, indirectly died following his plan. He would have killed Batman and Robin a dozen times over. At least one time, their defeat of him required letting him think he HAD killed them.

But to be fair, WIaDNaD? is annoying not on its own as a throwback to the 60s show, but because its influence loomed over the comics for so long. The problem was that, in the comics, Joker and Riddler WERE originally deadly, and fans at the time hated reminders of the CCA era/Adam West show.

Riddler could kill, but not because he enjoys it. It would actually rarely happen, since they would merely be pawns in a riddle, and Batman would usually save them.

I don't even think he would kill like he killed Ms. Kringle in Gotham. Even though it was kind of an accident, it was a crime of passion. Even though he has a temper I don't think it would reach that level.

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>>93839265
I like the spandex as an alternative to the suit/derby hat combo for a more unhinged Riddler.
I like the idea of Riddler switching costumes depending on mood, and certain comics played with this.
He wears the suit and hat for more dignified, classier appearences, and he wears the jumpsuit when he's a crazed wacko doing flips all over the place.

>>93839820
>>93840013
King's Riddler killing people isn't what strikes me as OOC - the cutting is. I just can't imagine Edward Nigma as inflicting self-harm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndwC8QkmEpc

Weird Al was a pretty good Riddler.

>>93835145
Him killing civilians is fine but he really should be the type to leave it to goons and traps. Even then, he should disdain randomly killing people unless it is part of his plan like planting a bomb with a riddle in the Mayor's mansion.

>>93835145
if they were smart enough to solve his riddles they wouldnt die so it's on them