Spider-Man: Homecoming

>>93778032
>>Animated eyes in the suit

I'll preface this by saying I haven't seen the movie yet, I have my worries as someone who's kind of sick of the MCU but as a Spider-Man fan first and foremost I WANT it to end up being good.

That being said, about these eyes. I'm not against them or anything, it's fine, but I don't really see it as being an accuracy point...do Spider-Man's eyes move in the comics? Yes, but it's not because of any technological reason or canon purpose, it's just toon force shit....it's meta and done just to show emotion since Spider-Man wears a full face mask, technically Deadpool hit the nail on the head for "comic accuracy" when it comes to the concept of moving eyes if you take this into consideration more so than this Spider-Man, Spider-Man's mask in the comics was always just a piece of cloth

>>93778032
>>Flash Thompson - Tony Revolori was the most accurate Flash by far. Flash Thompson was never a physical bully that beat people up and dunked nerds in toilets, he was just a popular asshole that mocked Peter endlessly.

None of the Flash adaptations did that either, retard. Revolori is the least accurate Flash by far.

>>93778032
It's an MCU film starring someone in a spider-man costume. Not a Spider-Man film.

There was a guy named Peter Parker in the movie but I didn't see any Peter Parker character in the movie. That's how I feel about it.

Same goes for most other named characters. Fuck off pseudo-Ganke

>>93778464
>None of the Flash adaptations did that either, retard
Literally, the first scene with Flash in TASM is him holding a guy upside down, pushing him into his food tray and asking Parker to take a picture

>>93778425
I feel like the eyes being mechanical was a cheap way of justifying the fact they moved in-universe. With Deadpool they simply made the eyes move, and it was taken as granted that's just what they did. It looked fantastic. Peter's zooming squinting lenses introduce a tactical element to them, which actually undermines the look when they're used for emotion and not tactics.

>>93778032
>>Everybody isn't white
How is this a pro?

>>93778464
>>93778608
Mike Mattei says it's the most accurate to the comics so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRSrzYVxRtk

>>93778464
Both Raimi and TASM Flash used physical violence.

>>93778694
Because it takes place in New York City past 1954.
Were you mad about Spectacular Spider-Man too?

>>93778711
Why the fuck is Mike Mattei

>>93779088
I don't consume marvel things that aren't the xmen or Walt Simonson's Thor

Also as someone who lived in NYC post 1954, I'd prefer a movie of only white people TBQH

>>93778608
>It's an MCU film starring someone in a spider-man costume. Not a Spider-Man film.
>There was a guy named Peter Parker in the movie but I didn't see any Peter Parker character in the movie.

Exactly how I feel too. It's crazy to say the TASM movies understood the character better, but it's true.

>>93778032
>"most accurate Flash by far"
>fucking coward who prioritizes getting the trophy out of the lift over Liz's life
>isn't even Spidey's Number 1 fan
>DOESN'T EVEN LIKE SPIDER-MAN

Fuck you faggot.

>>93779204
Are you a New Yorker? How old are you? And what borough?

>>93779238
It was never ever implied that he didn't like Spider-Man, he just mocked that idea that Peter knew him.
>fucking coward who prioritizes getting the trophy out of the lift over Liz's life
He wasn't dating Liz in this universe.

And just because he wasn't 100% accurate doesn't mean he was more accurate than Raimi and Webb's.

>>93779204
Well, there's plenty out there

>>93778032
What I don't get is why Peter was so pressed about going after Vulture, especially at the end.
He leaves sexy ass Liz at the prom to foil Vulture's big plan, but Vulture's plan wasn't going to affect any real people, just Tony Stark who's a fucking billionaire.

>>93778711
Do you honestly think anyone cares about the opinion of fucking Mike Mattei

>>93779424
>Vulture's plan wasn't going to affect any real people
Vulture puts high-tech weapons in the hands of idiot street thugs. That affects real people.

>>93778032
>The Parkers aren't poor

Most people are poor by modern standards, anon.

>>93779531
And it took 8 years and a 14 year old hopping around in jammies to draw any attention to them whatsoever.

Given what happened in the movie we can conclude that the alien tech was doing less damage than everyday crime.

Speaking of the animated eyes.
Did anyone notice that his homemade suit had them in the goggles as well?
I really hope every Spidey suit in the MCU has at least a variation of them.

Also, I kind of want him to get a new suit.
Some of the plot revolved around not needing all the overbearing and ridiculous gadgets that get him into more trouble anyway, yet he still has them by the end.

>>93779424
Because it's literally what got Uncle Ben killed, he let the bad guy go for his own selfish reasoning.

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Im genuinely impressed on how well Toomes was done in this movie, both in character and design
>Movie opens with Adrian scavenging Chitauri tech, even picking apart the corpse of a Leviathan
>This scavenger theme is reflected in his original job, criminal activity, and villain persona
>Had a clear character arc and descent into being a villain. Went from blue collar average joe to NY's top advanced weapons street distributor, all thinking it was justified to provide for his family
>We further see this descent when Toomes accidentally kills the first Shocker, and then later feels more casual about committing murder when talking with Peter
>Toomes ends with strained relationships with his loved ones, and now has a clear motivation to hate Spider Man. Only keeping his identity secret because he saved Liz's life as well as his own
I hope they keep it up

>>93779424
>So pressed about going after the Vulture
Are you retarded? This is fucking Spider "Responsibilities are my shit" Man. Spiderman ignoring a villian only led to Uncle Ben dying. He learned his lesson and has now survivor's guilt over it.

It's a major part of his character.

>>93779575
I thought it was implied they weren't selling the tech itself to others until the events of the movie.
I thought they were just developing their own shit, then using it to do heists themselves, and things only drew attention when they started selling the tech.

>>93779575
It's actually weird that didn't become a major thing.

Actually, it's even weirder that Toomes even did business in Queens. You'd think that would be the last place he'd do it considering his family is there.

>>93779612
I'm really curious to see what they do with him in future movies.
Either he'll just wait his time in prison and go back to being a normal civilian after, all while keeping hush about Peter.
OR
He'll break out, keep being the Vulture, and teaming up with other supervillains, all while keeping hush about Peter.

Both I would be happy about, as long as I get to actually see it.

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>>93779467
>Do you honestly think anyone cares about the opinion of fucking Mike Mattei

Yes Doug, I do.

>>93779304
>And just because he wasn't 100% accurate doesn't mean he was more accurate than Raimi and Webb's.
This statement is 100% correct

>>93779680
The way I see it, its possible that he doesnt really have a life anymore. His original job means his schooling was probably limited (though he is in no way stupid), so theres not much to put on a resume. Combine that with a long criminal record, and his family possibly not wanting anything to do with him, and he has a good chance of wanting revenge. Sequel will probably open up with Mysterio or somebody breaking him out and giving him another suit

>Pros
>Everybody isn't white
Why is this a thing only when applied to 'murica? I never see people bitching for more white people in bollywood.

Fuck sakes, whites are a global minority. Why must they further castigate themselves for having their own countries?

>>93779575
He's 15.

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>>93778032
>Everybody isn't white
That's pretty racist.
And Flash isn't accurate, Flash is a white chad. That's how he gets away with picking on Peter, people respect him. I think most users of this board could beat up Homecoming Flash back in high school.
Also
>Spider-Man uses a cell phone in almost every promo

>>93779812
>I think most users of this board could beat up Homecoming Flash back in high school.
I'd bully him for his curry money

>>93778464
Are you fucking retarded? Go watch ASM1 right now, you stupid cunt.

>>93779886
>Hey Puny Parker! I left you a curry surprise in your locker!

>>93779886
They could've at least got a tough looking indian guy

The guy they got looks like a total dweeb

>>93779931
not just a casting mistake, also a caste mistake
should've gone with a kshatriya

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>>93778032
>>Flash Thompson - Tony Revolori was the most accurate Flash by far. Flash Thompson was never a physical bully that beat people up and dunked nerds in toilets, he was just a popular asshole that mocked Peter endlessly.
Fuck you, this flash fucking sucked.

At the very least make the motherfucker taller than peter
7/10 movie

>>93779892
There's nothing in ASM that wasn't done better in all the other films. Waste of time.

These points are retarded
>hating ned leeds and Donald glover when they were funny as fuck
>hating on Tom Holland's acting
>complaining that the villain is too sympathetic

>>93779886
>>93779931

Hes Guatemalan

>>93779531
>Vulture puts high-tech weapons in the hands of idiot street thugs. That affects real people.
That seemed to only be a thought in Peter's mind after talking to Donald Glover, other than that he just wanted to prove himself to Daddy Stark.

>>93779974
>>93779931
>>93779886
That dude is a spic

>>93779974
I dunno shit about india's weird bug castes. All I know is that they hired some fat faced bitch looking kid.

Seriously, look at this faggot. I'm surprised he wasn't the one getting his ass beat.

>>93779542
Fuck off Peter and May are supposed to be struggling to get by after Uncle Ben's death.

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>>93780015
>>93780031
Well he looks like a bitch.

>>93779717
Webb's Flash best Flash

>>93778032
I mean, in Lee/Ditko the unattainable Liz thing lasted for like 4 issues and then she was all over Peter's dick while he was more into Betty.

>>93780088
And he was out of highschool before issue thirty.

People who act like Spiderman belongs in highschool are fools.

>>93779754
>>93779680
>>93779612
>Vulture continues to be a professional costumed super-villain who's out to make a quick buck and has no qualms about going through Spidey to get it, but he also treats Spidey with a degree of respect and draws the line at killing him due to personal honour.

I am 100% for Vulture being the MCU version of Captain Cold. Actually, I'm just excited about them going for a Rogues vibe with the MCU Spidey villains in general. It's a great way to distinguish them from the rest of the MCU villains and keep his movies at a street-level in terms of both threatens and narratives. Spidey's at his best as a character when he's gong through his own personal conflicts and not constantly dealing with huge stakes like the rest of the MCU heroes.

>>93779604
Uncle Ben WASN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING MOVIE. PETER DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT UNCLE BEN.
Building falls on top of him, he almost fucking dies, and he's thinking about Iron Man.
The only time Benjamin Parker was even mentioned was in reference to Aunt May having a hard time because of "the event", and she didn't look like she was having that hard of a time.

Karen was best girl by far. She was even Jennifer Connelly.

>>93780085
As much as I disliked that movie, I have to agree.

>>93780041
>I'm surprised he wasn't the one getting his ass beat.
That sounds almost in character for classic Pete, at least wanting badly to kick his ass.

>>93779577
>Did anyone notice that his homemade suit had them in the goggles as well?
That was weird. Why and how did Peter develop those animated goggles when the rest of the suit save the webshooters looked like it was cobbled together with whatever he had on hand?

>>93779812
>I think most users of this board could beat up Homecoming Flash back in high school.
I think you're severly overrating the fighting ability of the average /co/mrade.

>>93780110
You do know there are more spider-man comics than just the original, right?

Ultimate Spider-man was in highschool for ten years

>>93780169
>Karen was best girl
Karen was the most out of place thing in the entire movie and ruined parts of was supposed to be a spider-man movie

>>93780110
It's fine for a "first" movie.
By the way by issue 30 is also when Liz went away.
With the MCU's pseudo real-time thing Peter will be out of HS by the next solo movie anyway.

>>93780191
>Ultimate Spider-man
FOOLS
O
O
L
S

>>93780191
Yeah, and it was shit partially because Peter never moved on. It was the only adaption that lingered and let the highschool setting overstay it's welcome.

And since Bendis wanted to virtue signal we never got to see Ultimate Peter going to university.

>>93780172
Yeah, I'd like to see more of Peter being a bit of a dick deep down.

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>>93780158
>"the event"
Is that seriously how they refer to it?
I mean I understand not laying a flashback sauce all over the movie but "the event"?

>>93778425
Yes, Spiderman always had expressive eyes in the comics and cartoons, it may be new for the movies but it has been part of the canon for decades

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>>93780135
The key thing that makes this movie's villain so strong is scale. Toomes wasnt looking to kill thousands or take over the world, let alone New York, he just wanted to earn a decent living. Hell, Shocker falls in the same category too in this movie and has his own little mini arc.
>Like Toomes, just wants to earn a buck
>Was smart enough to keep his mouth shut, his head low, and didnt end up like the previous "Shocker" for being a reckless idiot
>Goes from thinking the "Shocker" nickname being dumb, to having fun with the persona by the end when fighting Peter in the school parking lot
I just hope we see more of him, preferably in the mask

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>>93778032
>Tony Revolori was the most accurate Flash by far.

>>93780275
>take over the world, let alone New York
Other way around, person isn't gonna do small thing, let alone big thing.

>>93780299
Right, my mistake

>>93780110
And people on /co/ act like a movie has to be 100% like the comics or it isn't worth existing. This board is cancer

>>93778711
>He's a highschooler, so it's more accurate to the comics
Peter was in high school for like three years of his forty-year run. End this meme.

>>93780230
>Yeah, I'd like to see more of Peter being a bit of a dick deep down.
Actually, throwing some proper snarky responses at Flash (well, a better adapted Flash anyways) would be the ideal.

>>93780257

"the event" is how Marvel Netflix shows refer to the alien invasion of the first Avengers movie

>>93780275
Shocker honestly felt like an after thought in this movie.
The only reason I have a positive opinion of him is because of just how much I hated the first guy calling himself shocker. I was glad he died 5 minutes after he was "introduced"

>>93780332
I know but that's just shitty TV "grounded" drama.
Although I guess this is a comedy and they want to avoid people feeling sad as much as they wanted people to not laugh at Jessica Jones.
I remember reading that more references to Ben's death were in but test audiences reacted poorly to them. Although I read that on /co/, so heh.

>>93779575
No, based on what happened we can conclude that MCU USA is a failed state with inferior law enforcement and military apparatus to most third world countries. So, what previous movies already established.

>>93779625
He never mentioned responsibility once in the movie. Responsibility was never brought up or implied. He just did shit to prove he could.
Nothing in this movie was a response to Uncle Ben's death, it was in response to Stark taking him to Germany and giving him a cool suit.

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>>93780317
I'm just sick of the movies repeatedly putting him back in highschool.

At least he graduated in the first half of the original trilogy.

>>93780325
And because this new flash is such a fag we'll never get this.

>>93780135
You can't do rogues in a remotely realistic or plausible context unless you're Superman. The reason being that they'd all just get shot by law enforcement sooner or later. There's a lot of things you can criticze American police for; hesitating to open fire on armed suspects (especially ones that have escaped in the past) is NOT one of them.

>>93780027
It was on his mind the second they blew up Delmar's sandwich place

He spent the entire movie rejecting having any kind of social life just to keep being the best Spidey he could

>>93780229
this is basically ultimate spider man: the movie so it makes sense

just like the rest of the mcu movies have been stuffing loads of the ultimate universe's shit in everyones face (see: samuel l jackson nick fury)

>>93780345
I can understand that. But to be fair, Shocker does work better as a supporting role than a main character, certainly doesnt need a movie centered around his character. At least he had a presence in this movie which is more that can be said about Michelle . The biggest criticism I can say about him is not suiting up and not getting better gauntlets that fire shock waves instead of just shock wave punches

>>93780027
No, that's on his mind after the ATM guys.

Teens want to prove themselves to their role models. That's part of being young, and it's even worse in Peter's case 'cause Tony put it in his head that he could be an Avenger. Peter is getting over that by the end of the movie, though.

>>93780383
>inferior military apparatus to most third world countries
Even putting aside hellicarriers and supersoldiers, and what I'm guessing is hyperbole, this is still a ridiculous statement. You have no idea how shitty 3rd world armies are.

>>93780393
>I'm just sick of the movies repeatedly putting him back in highschool.
We already have a ton of adult superheroes. It's nice to have one who's young who we get to see grow up. It's something different in the MCU. I just hope they don't fuck it up.

>>93780455
A third world military would've reacted far better to e.g. the Chitauri attack. A third world military also wouldn't have stored its nuclear codes on the fucking Internet.

>>93780178
The guy is 5'6. All you have to do is bump into him and he'll go flying.

>>93780385
I feel like Red Letter Media are right when they say that someone in the writer room had a list of "things that have been done in both previous Spider-Man franchises" and religiously avoided all that.
For better and for worse in terms of accuracy.

>>93780178
I was a defensive lineman who started for the first two years. Pretty sure I could beat up Tony Macaroni at age 15.

>>93780393
Fuck Agentvenomfags, seriously who gives a flying fuck.

>>93779789
The movie takes place in New York City you dumbass piece of shit, not fucking Ohio or even Upstate New York.
And America has a reputation of being a "melting pot" and country of immigrants.
India still has billions of their native populations and so do most other countries.
America's natives were fucking murdered and then the country was filled with other people.

Don't act like a fucking dumbass.

>>93780436
I blame those "consultants" they used for the earlier movies.

>>93780490
>A third world military would've reacted far better to e.g. the Chitauri attack.
No.
>A third world military also wouldn't have stored its nuclear codes on the fucking Internet.
They probably would if they had nukes to begin with.

With the exception of maybe 30 countries if you reach, the world's military is a joke.

>>93779892
They got in a fight after Pete threw a lunch tray at him. Big fucking deal. If anything, Pete was the instigator anyways. R tard.

>>93780507
I agree in part with this. But I do think responsibility was on Peter's mind. He was trying to be responsible with his powers. He was trying to use them for good. He didn't use them as a party trick.

That he's not good at being a superhero isn't about a lack of responsibility, it's about a lack of experience and training.

>>93780569
>No.
Yes. They wouldn't have nuked their financial capital in response to space bikers that only killed <200 people, for one.
>They probably would if they had nukes to begin with.
Pakistan and North Korea do have nukes, and they don't. No one does.

>>93780486
>We already have a ton of adult superheroes.
So put Peter in college. That's where his most well known stories happened, and it's something that hasn't been done yet.

>>93780528
B-but I like them retooling a classic Spidey character like that.

>>93780530
>And America has a reputation of being a "melting pot" and country of immigrants.
Uh huh. With a vast majority of white people.
>India still has billions of their native populations and so do most other countries.
>America's natives were fucking murdered and then the country was filled with other people.
You don't know a thing about history, do you? Especially using India as an example.
Do they not teach you idiots that other countries have just as much blood on their hands? Do you think the various indian ethnicities were all native?

Fuck off with your white guilt.

>>93779812
And now he's a Latino Chad, the only people that don't respect him are the Decathlon kids (which was a problem I had with the movie because it lessens the effective of his mockery).
Tony Revolori would be miscast in a public school, but Midtown wasn't a public school here.

>>93780492
>The average [15 year old] boy's height is 67 inches, or 5 feet 7 inches tall. Boys at 72 1/2 inches tall, or 6 feet and a 1/2-inch, are taller than 97 percent of all other boys in America
http://www.livestrong.com/article/370690-the-average-weight-height-of-a-15-year-old/

>>93780513
I'm pretty sure you're the exception here, champ.

>>93779984
I didn't say he was the most accurate appearance-wise, the original Flash was a redhead, but Guatemalan Flash was the most accurately written.

>>93779248
26 and I lived in Manhattan for 5 years
>>93779330
It is unfortunate

>>93780618
Not really. I was a fat ass at age 15 and even I could kick his ass in.

Also most teenage boys in my grade were at least 5'10". Is America really that full of dwarves?

>>93780638
and you don't think that dynamic is at all altered by Flash being a short scrawny nerd and Peter looking like he could break Flash in half pre-spider?

>>93780601
>So put Peter in college.
Pretty sure they will. There are more movies coming. But the older he is when they start, the quicker he'll grow up and be another adult superhero in a universe full of adult superheroes.

>tfw even ignoring manlet flash, ywn get the comics-accurate flash who bullies peter but loves spidey, because spidey carjacked him in this movie

suffering.

>>93780594
>Pakistan and North Korea do have nukes, and they don't. No one does.
Literally exceptions. Pakistan can't even be considered 3rd world.

1st world armies irl have done incredibly stupid shit, let alone 3rd world ones. I'm not trying to say the MCU US army aren't dumb fucks, I'm saying there's even stupider irl.

>>93780707
Don't forget the incredibly petty Korean tree war.

>>93780657
Well it's not fair if you're European, we actually have fighting experience as kids because our cartoons don't teach us the "ignore the bully" meme.

>>93780002
Ned was selfish and stupid. His only purpose was to be the funny fat friend, but he was unlikeable too. Cool hat though.
>hating on Tom Holland's acting
I can't judge Tom Holland's acting because he didn't actually play Peter Parker, but if he did his baby voice wouldn't be appropriate.
>complaining that the villain is too sympathetic
You're not supposed to be rooting for the villain.

>>93780728
How about that time Australans lost a war to a bunch of flightless birds?

>>93780707
>Literally exceptions. Pakistan can't even be considered 3rd world.
Pakistan's GDP per capita is lower than most of Sub-Saharan Africa's. If they're not third world, no one is.
>
1st world armies irl have done incredibly stupid shit, let alone 3rd world ones. I'm not trying to say the MCU US army aren't dumb fucks, I'm saying there's even stupider irl.
Any real life military of note would've wiped the floor with the Chitauri, and killed off many supervillains before the heroes were ever necessary. Similarly, even the most incompetent police departments would've quickly been able to trace one-of-a-kind alien ordnance back to Vulture, or at least fucking notice that items keep going missing from their warehouses.

>>93779674
>Actually, it's even weirder that Toomes even did business in Queens.
Wasn't it New Jersey?

>>93780760
Canadian. The schools tried to push the "JUST IGNORE THE BULLY" shit, but it only really stopped when I started hitting back. I found it quite fun, actually.

I don't get the "turn the other cheek" mindset, to be honest. Seems like it's setting kids up for failure.

You do realize a good bit of the issues could have been solved if Happy did his fucking job, right?
>"Hey Peter, got your message, Tony informed the FBI"
>"Hey Peter, I'll let you know when we need you, just keep doing what you're doing."
>"Oh look, we're transporting HIGHLY DANGEROUS AVENGERS GRADE WEAPONS/TECHNOLOGY, better ensure it has an escort or at least SOMEBODY monitoring the craft closely instead of glancing at a tablet seeing if its on course."

>>93778658
>>93780572
You sure you're not thinking of Spider-Man 1? The ASM Flash was fantastic.

>>93780854
Well duh. There's a reason why he treats Petter a lot better in the end.

>>93780795
>Ned was selfish and stupid.
He's about on par with some of the shit friends I had as a teen. Actually, he's less selfish than a lot of the people I knew.

>You're not supposed to be rooting for the villain.
In well written fiction, things aren't black and white. Both the protagonist and the antagonist have motives that the audience can relate to, and it gives the audience more to think about.

>>93780257
I was paraphrasing, I don't remember the exactly line but it's not explicit.
Not doing Uncle Ben's death because "everybody knows already" was retarded anyway.
It makes the movie feel empty and sure older people like myself know, but there was a bunch of the kids in the theater who have probably never seen a Spider-Man film before.

>>93780802
>Any real life military of note would've wiped the floor with the Chitauri, and killed off many supervillains before the heroes were ever necessary.
That's really unlikely, it's not exactly a common occurence irl, military are trained for specific purposes, not to fight giant leviathan shit that resist missiles.
The 200 bodycount is just dumb.
>Similarly, even the most incompetent police departments would've quickly been able to trace one-of-a-kind alien ordnance back to Vulture, or at least fucking notice that items keep going missing from their warehouses.
That is mostly correct, although there's shit that "mysteriously" goes missing from evidence rooms all the fucking time.

>>93778425
>Deadpool hit the nail on the head for "comic accuracy" when it comes to the concept of moving eyes

Absolutely but it's very cartoony and would look out of place in the MCU. Everything has some kind of technical (or magic) explanation to it.

>>93780937
>In well written fiction, things aren't black and white.
opinion

>>93780965
Would've been an improvement to the MCU, really

>>93780952
I'm fine ith them not showing it, but it should still weight heavily on Peter, enough for him to reference it at least one time, for fuck's sake.

>>93780963
>That's really unlikely, it's not exactly a common occurence irl, military are trained for specific purposes, not to fight giant leviathan shit that resist missiles.
The Leviathans don't resist shit. they have exposed faces that explode into tiny bits when Stark launches a small missile at them. Hulk also cracked one's skull with a punch roughly equal in force to a large semi-truck impact. Modern military ordnance can do MUCH better than that.

Let us also remember that the bulk of their forces were those open-topped skiffs (which were slower than WW2 prop planes, very lightly armed, and bursted into flames when shot at by a 7.62x51mm minigun) and their foot soldiers (which refused to use cover ever, went down to pistols, and were themselves armed with little more than rifles). WW1 militaries would have a good chance against them.
>That is mostly correct, although there's shit that "mysteriously" goes missing from evidence rooms all the fucking time.
You'd figure literal alien technology at least would be triple-checked.

>>93778032
Too much world building in an already established world

Too much Parker character building even though they are already established

Not enough actual spider-man scenes

Not enough web swinging

When peter actually GOT to be spider-man thats when the movie excelled

Also too much villains, every 20 seconds going back to the villains is boring as fuck.

Peter is also really selfish for no reason other then his daddy issues

good spidey movie, I just prefer the trilogy spider-man, unless the second movie is incredible like spider man 2

>>93780158
Just because the movie didn't show Uncle Ben's death doesn't mean that YOU don't know how he died. That scene was a straight up mirror to that "event".
If hypothetically the sequel shows us that Uncle Ben died a different way I'll take what I said back. Otherwise it's classic Peter not wanting "that" to happen again.

>>93780317
An adaptation doesn't need to be exactly like the source material, but it shouldn't pull a 180 changing everything and ruining the foundation of the story and characters.

Adaptations should expand, not erase.

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>>93778032
>Flash Thompson - Tony Revolori was the most accurate Flash by far
This is the most wrong thing you could have said.

Literally the only thing he shares in common with the character is that he's mean to Peter.

Let's see what defines Flash in the original comics
>Hates Peter
>Good guy deep down
>Dumb Jock
>#1 Spider-Man fan

So let's compare that to MCU Flash now
>Hates Peter
Check.
>Good guy deep down
Nope. He was a selfish coward who literally pulled Liz out of the way to save himself in the elevator
>Dumb Jock
This guy is a Smart math nerd, and is smaller than Peter.
>#1 Spider-Man fan
Flash didn't really care about Spider-Man in this film at all. Spider-Man saves his friends lives and the only thing he wants to know from Spider-Man is if Peter's lying or not.

This was a shit Flash, even before talking into account how he looked nothing like the character, and some of the stories that have been done since, such as Flash coming from a poor, abusive home.

>>93779789
>I never see people bitching for more white people in bollywood

This is such a blatant use of false equivalence. Compare the ethnic demographics of NYC with those of Mumbai and you have the answer to your question.

>>93781055
>with a punch roughly equal in force to a large semi-truck impac
That seems incredibly specific for something you have no way of knowing.

But I'll mostly concede to your point.

>>93781126
>That seems incredibly specific for something you have no way of knowing.
I remember I was browsing some random forums and some guy actually did a series of calculations of how hard the Hulk punched based on the Leviathan's momentum. Or maybe it was a Youtube video with a clickbaity title like "HOW STRONG IS HULK REALLY?". Give me a few minutes.

>>93779304
>He wasn't dating Liz in this universe.
why would this matter? i mean holy shit he finds a trophy more important than a person's life

>>93781152
I don't really care that much, dude.

>>93781117
Compare the population total and ask why you want a global minority to represent itself even less.

>>93781094
>Good guy deep down
This is what I liked about the Agent Flash stuff. It was cool seeing Peter and Flash become friends as adults. Maybe I'm a sucker for a jerk jock with depth, but this was a missed opportunity.

>>93781090
Exactly. Especially changing things like Flash and MJ for no real reason.

>>93778032
>Ned Leeds - annoying and selfish

this bothered me the most

>"PETER KNOWS SPIDERMAN!"

the whole theater laughed but i was just thinking how pissed i'd be if i were peter.

>>93780257
No, the closest they come to directly referencing Ben is Peter telling Ned something like "I can't do that to Aunt May with everything that's happened"

>>93781163
alright.

>>93781176
>population total
>global minority

Why the fuck are these relevant? NYC is only 44% white. The casting is accurate, deal with it.

>>93781204
>NYC is 44% white
>Peter is like the only white kid in his class
Something doesn't add up here, captain.

>>93780507
Thank you, that's exactly how I feel. This movie definitely has more heart than the TASM movies, it feels like Jon Watts had a clear version, but in trying to be more original and differnet they inadvertently ruined the character.

>>93781176
>Compare the population total and ask why you want a global minority to represent itself even less.
That's such a stupid fucking point. At the very least 50% of what the world watches features primarily white people.
I don't even care about the whole diversity argument but man that's just fucking dumb.

>>93780275
I hope he becomes like Ultimate Shocker, popping up in every movie for a bit but never really being important

>>93780640
>26 and I lived in Manhattan for 5 years
So shut the fuck up, dumb old man.

>>93781244
>50% of what the world watches
So you're ignoring Japan, China and India and their huge media sectors?

I repeat: do you want to go bitch about there not being enough white people in the next bollywood movie?

>>93780662
No, he was still bothered by it. And we haven't even seen this Peter pre-spider.

>>93781229
>Peter is like the only white kid in his class
Not true by the way. This movie has plenty of white characters, it just has plenty of non-white characters too.

If you're seriously against diverse casting to the point of denying demographic realities then you've got some shit to work out.

>>93781297
>So you're ignoring Japan, China and India and their huge media sectors?
No, I'm not ignoring how succesful western movies are over there either.

>I repeat: do you want to go bitch about there not being enough white people in the next bollywood movie?
I repeat: I don't even care about the whole diversity argument

>>93780640

gentrifying fuck

Cons:
A little too light-hearted, being Spider-man didn't cause any real problems for his social life.

Skipping the origins and have Stark give him the iconic suit kinda robed Peter of his own identity.

>>93781297
>India: country full of Indians
>US: only 63% white

If Bollywood makes a movie that takes place in Columbus, Ohio then they should probably cast a lot of white people. But as long as their movies take place in India there's nothing wrong with their movies reflecting their demographics.

>>93781315
>Not true by the way. This movie has plenty of white characters, it just has plenty of non-white characters too.
Yeah, except none of them were major characters. Don't give me bullshit that they didn't make it a point to cast Liz, Flash, MJ and 2nd Shocker as non-white. It was pandering, and I'm sick of seeing it.

>>93781359
>No, I'm not ignoring how succesful western movies are over there either.
So America should appeal to countries that aren't the actual intended demographic because....?
Ever think they may like the fact that western films are white? Must seem exotic.

>I repeat: I don't even care about the whole diversity argument
Which is why you're defending it.

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>>93781176
>This is what I liked about the Agent Flash stuff. It was cool seeing Peter and Flash become friends as adults. Maybe I'm a sucker for a jerk jock with depth, but this was a missed opportunity.
This is why ASM will always have the best Flash.
We got a great basketball scene with him, a scene where he was apologizing for his Uncle dying, and he even wore a Spidey shirt at the end. It was perfect.

>>93780937
It wasn't black and white though, not once during the movie did I feel any anger or hatred towards Adrian.
Civil War was a good example of black and white.

>>93781204
>The casting is accurate, deal with it.
read a comic book
this message has been sponsored by /co/

>>93780572
That was Raimi Spidey, "R Tard"

>>93781042
>but it should still weight heavily on Peter
It didn't seem to weigh on him or Aunt May at all, though he implied it weighed on Aunt May to Ned and that was the only time it was brought up.

>>93781423
>So America should appeal to countries that aren't the actual intended demographic because....?
Because apparently that's your idea. I literally never implied that.
>Ever think they may like the fact that western films are white? Must seem exotic.
They do.

>Which is why you're defending it.
I'm not, I'm saying your point is stupid because it is. Whites are the overwhelming majority of what people watch. That's just a staight up fact. Claiming that white people are in danger of being underrepresented in media is really fucking ridiculous.

>>93781430
>Civil War was a good example of black and white.
Oh boy.

>>93781423
>none of them were major characters

Now you're just being stupid on purpose. White characters included
>main character
>main fucking villain
>multiple supporting villains
>main character's mentor
>mentor's bodyguard used frequently for comic relief
>main character's mother figure
>main character's coach

Also
>Don't give me bullshit that they didn't make it a point to cast Liz, Flash, MJ and 2nd Shocker as non-white
They did. Because the movie takes place in a part of the country that is mostly non-white. How is this difficult for you?

>>93781082
What scene? When the building fell on him and he got up because he was thinking of Tony Stark?

>>93781156
He's an asshole, that's the point.

>>93781430
>Civil War was a good example of black and white.
Nope. I have seen people be very passionate about believing Tony was in the right, and I have seen people be very passionate about believing Cap was in the right. Personally, I can easily see it from both sides, though I have one I agree with more.

>>93781198
And then he kept asking Peter if he could tell everybody while they were in school.

>>93778032
>Bitching about Flash, when all he's ever done is egg Peter on to make mistakes and show he's still has to grow as a person and a hero
Eat shit.

>>93781546
>44% white
>mostly non-white
I know you're thinking it's less than half, but remember that all those other demographics are combined into that other 56%. So each demographic is smaller than that 44% individually.

>>93781512
>Because apparently that's your idea. I literally never implied that.
You said that the fact that American media are confused globally was a factor in this.
>They do.
So why defend a blatant push for stupid diversity?

>Whites are the overwhelming majority of what people watch
You must not watch TV. Blacks are overwhelmingly overrepresented, whilst latinos are often folded into the "white category".
>Claiming that white people are in danger of being underrepresented in media is really fucking ridiculous.
Okay, let me get this straight. I think it's stupid that they arbitrarily changed character's races, and you say this "while not caring about diversity"?

>>93781670
>remember that all those other demographics are combined into that other 56%

You mean just like the casting?

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>>93781426
>great basketball scene

>>93781652
That fat, selfish shit is going to get someone killed in one of the sequels, I'm calling it.

Well this thread turned out productive

>>93781689
Which is why all of the named Spiderman supporting characters except Aunt May weren't white, huh?

Including this "MJ" bullshit stunt?

>>93781718
If its any consolation, I could see Ned dying in a future film. But then again Peter is short on supporting characters his own age so its a toss up

>>93781670
>You said that the fact that American media are confused globally was a factor in this.
Reminder that you're the one who argued the "global minority" thing in the first place, dummy.
>So why defend a blatant push for stupid diversity?
I'm still not.
>I think it's stupid that they arbitrarily changed character's races
Okay.
>You must not watch TV. Blacks are overwhelmingly overrepresented, whilst latinos are often folded into the "white category".
Doesn't actually contradict my claim.
>you say this "while not caring about diversity"?
Yes. I can say facts without caring about them.

>>93781649
>though I have one I agree with more.
Then you're a dumbass. It was obvious they were both wrong.

>>93781667
Nigga I listed Flash as a pro

>>93781739
Not him but I hope you're baiting, otherwise you really don't understand basic maths or your own argument.

>>93781700
It's no different from the boxing match from the comics.

>>93781786
Kek thank you for chiming in. That post made it clear I never should have engaged with him in the first place.

If it makes anyone feel any better, they're likely to retcon the MJ thing away and perhaps bring in Mary Jane Watson. Apparently on social media (god help us all but thats what studios look at for fucking direction), a good number of people werent happy with the twist, so its not just 4chan. Its either comicfags, Raimifags, or people who just didnt like Zendaya calling them out.

>>93781755
>Reminder that you're the one who argued the "global minority" thing in the first place, dummy.
Yeah, which is why I think forced diversity is stupid.
>I'm still not.
Except you literally just did.
>Okay.
Nice response.
>Doesn't actually contradict my claim.
The hell it doesn't. Especially in comic books, where blackwashing is getting real old.
>Yes. I can say facts without caring about them.
I'm not buying it.

>>93781786
So why'd they change the character's races to be a forced package of "diversity"? I still haven't gotten an answer.

>>93781810
Keep sucking your own dick, man.

>>93781834
There's already been an interview with Feige and Pascal saying she's not and never has been Mary Jane. Another one, because apparently people didn't believe them when they were saying it before the movie came out.

>>93779612
I'm so looking forward to what they decide to do with Scorpion, as long as they don't kill him off early like they did with Crossbones.

>>93781718
>hat fat, selfish shit is going to get someone killed in one of the sequels
Hopefully it's Ned.

>>93781746
With that stupid "My friend's call MJ" shit and Betty Brant now being younger than him, I wouldn't even be surprised if Harry and Gwen aren't ever introduced.

>>93781872
How long will Feige and Pascal chicken out and introduce the real Mary-Jane into the MCU, even if its for a one-off cameo or joke.

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>>93781861
Man you cannot argue, this is fucking funny.

>>93781909
Pretty sure they were going to introduce her regardless. It's really cute how people think they cracked a code on that one.

>>93778032
>if anything changes from the comics it's bad: The Post

Wew fuck off OP

>>93781952
If Michelle Jones is revealed to be the granddaughter of J Jonah Jameson in the sequel, her character will be redeemed in an instant.

>>93781902
In truth, Im completely fine with Gwen getting cut. Lord knows we dont need to see her neck snapped again. As for Harry, that is a sad situation. No Harry means no Norman, who you could still have as an antagonist, just not in a glider

>>93781952
They were probably just testing the waters. Wonder if this time people would accept it better than with the Mandarin.

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>>93781879
It can only do the character good at this point. Gargan has been a joke for years. I just hope his costume is better than this

>>93781549
Before that, when Toomes tells Peter to not follow him and just enjoy the dance with Liz.

>>93782031
Him being played by Vaas from Far Cry 3 is pretty fucking brilliant and one of the few race changes i didn't mind.

>>93782025
They probably pull another Mandarin twist revealing that they is actually is a Mary-Jane Watson. Would be funny if Michelle turns out to be more like Gwen, hell maybe she takes Gwen's role in the MCU as the love interest who dies.

>>93781995
What if they do a MJ vs MJ love triangle, and Michelle dies thereby being a surrogate Gwen Stacy AND being a motivation for JJJ to hate Spider Man if shes his daughter?

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>>93782086
Fucking brilliant, it gives Peter something to angst over and develop, it gives JJJ a reason to hate Spidey for failing to save her, and it gives the real MJ a chance to grow up and mature.

>adaptation
adaptation of fucking what

It's Spider-Man, he's Spider-Man. That's it.

>>93782082
>Him being played by Vaas from Far Cry 3 is pretty fucking brilliant and one of the few race changes i didn't mind.
Seconding this. Great choice.

why do people never shut the fuck up about racebaiting when all the tony dicksucking was the real problem of the movie

>>93780528
Fuck you.

>>93781094
I came into this thread wanting to defend Flash but you've done a great job.

I'd also like to say that Flash wasn't so obsessed with Peter to start lowbrow chants about him when he wasn't even present and that movie Flash tried to save the fucking trophy.

>>93780530
America Natives died by germs.

We didnt even need to spread it, it was that bad.

A few hundred thousand killed in direct conflict is meager compared to the millions who fell to plague.

>>93780158
If you were trapped under a building, would you pray to your dead uncle to come save you?

>tfw fake spoilers "Homecoming" Flash was better than the actual movie

>>93782304
>We didnt even need to spread it

And yet smallpox blankets were still handed out with high hopes.

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>>93782031
What if they give him the "human coathanger" costume

>>93780265
>Yes, Spiderman always had expressive eyes in the comics and cartoons, it may be new for the movies but it has been part of the canon for decades

I acknowledged that
>.do Spider-Man's eyes move in the comics? Yes, but it's not because of any technological reason or canon purpose, it's just toon force shit....it's meta and done just to show emotion since Spider-Man wears a full face mask, technically Deadpool hit the nail on the head for "comic accuracy" when it comes to the concept of moving eyes if you take this into consideration more so than this Spider-Man, Spider-Man's mask in the comics was always just a piece of cloth

>>93778032
jesus christ is this a bait thread or what?

Peter didn't even feel like a loser in this movie, just a somewhat nerdy guy who wants to be popular but can't.
With Maguire and Garfield you could tell Peter was a loser.

Also, yes, as OP said, Aunt May being too able screws over many of Peter's original motivations (like why he messed with the Fantastic Four right at the beginning of his career, because he needed money to support Aunt May, since Uncle Ben had died).

Diversity was a good thing since the setting was, after all, in Queens, but the characters should have been respected. Flash in no way resembled the comic one. This Flash was just some annoying wannabe nerd. The rest of the supporting cast were uninteresting, especially Ned, since he fully played into the comic relief best friend that is a minority.

Too much of Peter's agency went to Iron Man. That was a terrible idea, even though Tony was indeed a mentor of sorts to Peter in the comics.

>>93780178
Uhhh...and which internet sites do you think he would frequent?

>>93782339
What did it say?

>>93782358
Why does JJJ hate spidey so much

>>93782387
>Garfield was a loser
I must have missed that because his social life seemed pretty alright to me. He was more of an antisocial prick, which I guess is accurate considering Peter was like that early on, but Garfield was far from a class loser

My main problems with the movie was that
#1 Peter doesn't have anything to ground him. Nothing to show how he got his moral code.
Why does he care so much about his neighborhood? Why does he spend so much time fighting crime at the expense of his social life and his crush? This thing is important because it gives a reason why when given two choices Peter always goes after the villain instead of being a 'cool guy'. All of this culminates in that penultimate scene where he gets out of the rubble. What motivates Peter to be a hero?
(Of course we know that it's because of Uncle Ben's Death but they definitely did not show even a sliver of it in the film. Instead Uncle Ben was proxied by of all people Tony Stark.)

#2 My second problem is that none of Peter's 'hard choices' had any real consequences riding on it. For not bringing his friend 'spider-man'. Peter was only made fun of, he wasn't even getting 'bullied'. Except for Flash who was a prick nobody even cared. There wasn't also any real consequences for missing the decathlon, No one was really counting on him to be there. Sure he 'disappointed' Liz but in the end we discover that she likes Peter nonetheless. Same thing with the ferry. Parker as we found out overstepped his hero duties but in the end Iron Man saved the day and took his hi-tech suit away from him. Even during his first encounters with the atm robbers. His cockiness got the bodega blown up but the owner and the cat survived. There's no follow up, nothing that made Peter reflect on how the guy lost his source of livelihood.
There wasn't any real moment of introspection for Peter and that is very important because that's one of the things that separates Peter from the rest of Marvel's heroes making him out to be the 'greatest' embodiment of what a superhero should be.

They didn't allow Peter to make a consequential mistake in this movie. A mistake that helps build his character, one that he'll think about so he'll strive to be a better person.

>>93782353
>And yet smallpox blankets were still handed out with high hopes.
But America was settled before germ theory was invented. Smallpox blankets are a fucking myth.

>>93782353
Nope, you were just dumb enough to fall for that meme.

Literally never happened.

>>93782358
Scorpion being in the next movie certainly gives them good reason to bring in JJJ too. As for the costume, Im hoping for something not so armor heavy. Maybe something like Yellowjacket, only the scorpion tail looks like hes got a damn spider slayer on his back or something

>>93782387
>With Maguire and Garfield you could tell Peter was a loser.
Macguire? Yes. Garfield? Fuck no.

Macguire's Peter was pure spaghetti, you could see why he got pushed around and bullied. You could see the resentment, too.

Macguire was too cool to be that. He was just a douchey hipster.

>>93782358
>"I can pull it apart with my bare hands!"
> wearing gloves

Oh, Matty....

>>93782483
>macguire
Fuck, meant Garfield in the last part.

>>93779424

I could practically hear Uncle Ben's voice over while he was walking towards Liz

>>93781872
I'm not convinced they're totally backpedaling on this.

I mean he essentially just said she's not Mary Jane Watson. Which, no shit, we've known since the start that she's Michelle. The question on everybody's mind is whether or not she'll be his main love interest, and I think it's pretty clear that she will be.

>>93782416
>Vulture was not Liz's father
>Vulture and his crew figure out that Spider-Man is a student at Midtown but assume it's Flash
>They attack the Homecoming dance looking for him
>Flash mans up and is willing to take the bullet for his friends, but Spider-Man saves him
>Flash ends up becoming even more popular while Peter passes for a coward
>Flash becomes a fan of Spider-Man after that and treats Peter somewhat nicer in true Flash fashion ("Spider-Man helps everyone, no matter how much of a dweeb, Parker. Now that he's my best friend I gotta' be nicer to you and set the example" kind of stuff).

>>93782440
His mistake was betraying Daddy Stark, I guess.
>'I'm nothing without this suit"
Fuck Homecoming.

>>93782538
Id say given the amount of Damage Control and the droves of Raimifags who grew up on those movies that have that weird connection to Dunst's Mary Jane, its a safe bet its a retcon in the making. This entire movie felt like Zendaya was originally Mary Jane in an early draft, and then later tweaked because people freaked when news spread of her mysterious role. The MJ thing was most likely them testing audience reactions on whether or not they could still use her, and apparently people still werent happy.

>>93782483
>Loner
>Poor
>Awkward
>Stuttering
>Bullied by everyone but Gwen

Garfield's Peter was a loser. Having nice hair doesn't change that.

>>93782531
>I imagine things that aren't there and so should everybody else
>I had to make something up but the movie is still a good adaptation

>>93782630
If they wanted MJ in the movie, they cast the wrong girl from Shake it Up

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I just wanted to discuss the movie, but y'all had lost your shit because I said I liked Flash and that less white people in New York City was a good thing.

>>93782630
>Id say given the amount of Damage Control and the droves of Raimifags who grew up on those movies that have that weird connection to Dunst's Mary Jane
Eat a dick. My first exposure was back when she and Peter were married.
>This entire movie felt like Zendaya was originally Mary Jane in an early draft, and then later tweaked because people freaked when news spread of her mysterious role.
Because she doesn't look like her, act like her, talk like her or treat Peter the same way. It's not nostalgiafagging.

>>93782448
>>93782449
Am I being trolled?

>>93782722
Because they're retards. Best girl will always be Karen.

>>93782636
Being a loner, poor, and mildly socially awkward doesnt make you a high school loser anon. Hell, Flash only picked on him in that one scene because Peter challenged him and had to look good in front of everyone. Flash actually acted like a rational human being too after hearing Uncle Ben had died too. Peter was far from an easy target, he just kept to himself and no one cared

>>93782726
Im talking about casuals you colossal faggot, the only opinion studios seem to listen too. I didnt lump you in that demographic you fucking autist.

>>93782728
No. Do you not follow history?

The smallpox thing was mentioned in one letter that was never verified as real.

So that was suppose to be Scorpion Vulture was talking to at the end right? Do you think they will actually get him in the suit if they end up using him for the next Spider Man movie?

>>93782801
Yes, that was Mac Gargan, the same guy who tried to deal with him on the boat.

>>93778032
>Donald Glover can't act
Glover was fantastic. He had way more character with his few lines than Holland did with the whole movie!

>>93782567
That would have been nice

>>93781266
>26
>old

>>93781361
Don't currently live there. Also gentrifying is a good thing
>bitch about white flight
>bitch about gentrification

>Shocker was in this
>Even got yellow pillow-like sleeves

I loved that little detail. Wish he had duel shock gloves though

>>93782830
That's some massive bullshit Glover wanking if I ever saw some.

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>>93782744
>You actually liked the ai

>>93778711
That matters as much as Rich Evan's saying "It's the most accurate adaptation ever"

>>93778032
Wow OP don't forget they made Flash an actual asshole, comic Flash would not have been rushing out of the elevator.

>>93782854
>Shocker was in this
Why you gotta lie? "Shocker" was just no-name mooks, one of whom got dusted off like a chump.

>>93779612

I think he has a change of heart. He knows he has a thing for his daughter and if scorpion figures that out or anyone for that matter then he knows that they will go after his daughter too to hurt peter.

>>93782859
Settle down Holland, give it some time and maybe you'll get good too

>>93779304
>>93779717
>>93780085
How would he be more accurate. If "not using physical violence" is the main factor than by that shallow comparison he should by being Indian.

>>93782892
Well I guess the closest we'll get of him in the MCU.

>>93782830
>Talk kinda slow and only have your eyes half open
>acting

His character was literally only good for the ice cream line

>>93782865
>not liking something that adds levity to him learning how to use the suit
It's like you want Spider-Man to be 2 hours of angst ridden bullshit.

>>93782785
Ok, definitely being trolled. Thanks for the heads up.

Also the moon landings were real, the Holocaust happened and climate change isn't a hoax.

>>93782753
Flash threw a basketball at his head in the very first scene.

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>>93782892
>>93782923
I could easily see Shocker being a reoccurring supporting villain in these movies. He was starting to enjoy the persona by the schoolbus fight, all he needs now is a mask

>>93782934
>he didn't like interrogation mode.
weak

>>93781071
I loved everything about the villains. Other then that, I agree.

>>93778032
>Michelle - acted like Gwen Stacey, should've been Gwen Stacey

Let me preface my criticism by saying I hated her character, but I just think you're wrong.

Gwen was popular that was part of character. It wouldn't work unless she was popular, she was just kinda bitchy and a little stalkerish but being the "prom queen" type girl is part of it.

It's like saying all you have to do is write an entitled asshole to get Joffery in GoT right, NO he also has to be king or some other high authoritative position or you lose something.

>The Vulture was too sympathetic

How is that bad?

I gotta agree with the rest (except Flash) especially about Ben and the Parkers not being poor.

>>93779612

his wings were fucking DOPE

The truck scene in Maryland when he attached them to the truck while he ziplined in was the coolest shit. Toomes had swag; Falcon wishes he were that cool.

>>93782976
My point is Flash wasnt a complete dick in the ASM series and actually got along with Parker in a few scenes. Garfield's Parker didnt have it that bad, certainly better off than most interpretations

>>93782966
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009/--did-the-us-army-distribute-smallpox-blankets-to-indians?rgn=main&view=fulltext

>>93780275

>yfw Tinkerer references picking up scraps from Lagos and that's where Crossbones lost one of his gauntlets

>yfw the Shocker gauntlet is a modded Crossbones power fist

This movie did such a good job of fleshing out the MCU and the street-level ramifications of the Avengers' battles.

>>93782946
>Liking something that replaces actual character development, a chance to get into the mind of pete, and literally giving solutions to every single problem presented to it.

I don't think you've ever read a spider-man comic if you think Peter using his problem solving skills is "angst ridden bullshit"

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>>93783002
This brings up an interesting question: Could Vulture take on Falcon? Toomes' flight harness is designed to be strong so it can haul salvage, but its offensive capabilities are much lower than Sam's suit which is practically military grade. But then again, Vulture can fight a metahuman like Peter

>>93782982
Well the mask and a second gauntlet.

I agree with everything except the Flash thing and the white thing. As a Spider-Man fan this movie sucked ass. I mean, I see why people like it, but to me it's just a disgrace.

I just hope Marvel doesn't try to pull any synergy in the comics.

>>93783076
>I just hope Marvel doesn't try to pull any synergy in the comics.
We all know they will. Which is why I hate this race changing bullshit.

>>93783061
Because we have two hours of movie and what I can glean from you posts is you want ON SCREEN character development about a suit that's made by a guy who doesn't know the full extent of the person's powers he's making it for so he goes overboard and the only way you're gonna have him "learn" how to use the suit's functions in the movie is a fucking time skip. And we already have people bitching about 8 FUCKING YEARS.

>>93778032
>very weak adaptation

Holland was more like Spider-Man than any other actor who has ever played the part. Vulture was more like a proper Spider-Villain than any that has existed. The general feel of the film with some kid basically getting himself in too deep was way more like actual Spider-Man than any of the other films.

This was a strong as fuck adaptation.

>>93783062

I'd say Falcon beats him on combat experience alone. Plus, Redwing is no joke.

Idk if they were trying to imply that Toomes was once in the military, but Falcon is active military (or was recently) and is much younger. He'd win in the end.

Now you give Falcon Vulture's wings... that's a problem. I don't think the MCU will ever do FalCap, but if they somehow ever did, I'd love for him to have detachable wings the way Toomes did.

>>93783107
>Which is why I hate this race changing bullshit.
I'm more concerned with MJ, Spider-Man sucked Tony's cock, and Peter being high tech. It feels so anti-Spider-Man. Yes, Spider-Man is smart, yes, it makes sense for him to have a high tech suit. But it also makes sense for a Bond villain to just shoot Bond in the face. Spider-Man intelligence shines through with how he deals with his enemies, by outsmarting them and using his knowledge of physics and chemistry to his advantage.

I'm not convinced Holland can play a heterosexual. He's just a bit too gay to have any on-screen chemistry with a woman.

>>93783116
>Holland was more like Spider-Man than any other actor who has ever played the part.

Spider-Man has /never/ acted like the way he acts in the MCU.

>>93783116
You're right; Spider-Man is supposed to be a screw up little bitch and Holland made Parker's constant fuck ups and grating personality come to life.
No one in universe likes him, and I can believe it. He's one annoying fuck.

>>93782744
Michelle was almost good.
Liz was hot but boring.
Karen was a joke and people who say shit like "Karen is best girl" are /r9k/-tier dweebs that jerkoff to Jenny Wakeman.

Best girl is Aunt May.

>>93783023
Ok, it can't be definitively proven that the US army gave smallpox blankets to natives in the 1830s, that doesn't mean that smallpox blankets are a myth.

Learn to read, nigga.

2Pac isn't alive, vaccines don't cause autism and there's no such thing as lizard people.

>>93782836
kill yourself before I kill you.

>>93783144
I know it's /a/ but I was hoping MCU spidey would be operating on a shoe string budget and had to go full Joseph Joestar and bluff and trick his enemies.

>>93783129
Im not sure whos faster, but as long as Sam keeps his distance Id put money on him. Falcon has more toys, but they're all long range weapons. Toomes certainly overpowers him if its a hand to hand encounter

>>93781786
At 44:56 the cast (not counting Tony and Hobby) Pete's circle of friends- acquaintances is pretty heavily lopsided to non-white. Like sure a lot of the background kids were white but like really Betty was the only named white teenager (unless I'm forgetting someone), and Pete's only white "friend" was the other white dude in decathlon. But I admit I don't know if it's normal to not have any friends of your race.


>>93781670
>>93781512
I gotta agree with both of you on different points White people are still in most media because I still think of America as mostly white such that the non-whiteness of the main was kinda off-putting but I've never been to New York. That said maybe Blacks are over represented because I was kinda surprised that it just seemed to be Liz and Michelle, so if that's an accurate percentage I dunno I expect more.
t. a non-white Foreigner who's been to the states like 8 times at most.

>>93783144
>I'm more concerned with MJ
This is the big one right here. MJ is a timeless part of Spidey's story by now, whereas this new MJ is so mid 2010's it hurts.
>Spider-Man sucked Tony's cock
See, I could be down with that if only they didn't interact. It'd be way funnier to have Peter be a fanboy to an oblivious Stark.
>and Peter being high tech
I don't mind some tech, but the suit having it's targeting shit and an AI rubs me the wrong way.

>>93783188
I did read. Clearly you didn't. There were no historical records of military interaction with the infected people.

>>93783109
You think I like the idea of him learning the suit?

His suit was by far the worst part of the film

Spider-man doesn't count on a suit designed by someone else to help him in a fight, it's counter-character.

I hate Tony's presence in the film, I hate Karen, and this movie wasted time that could be used to build peter's character on them

>>93783214
This is exactly what Spider-Man does though. Hell, his main method of attack his jumping all over the place and mocking his enemies till they get so pissed off they give him an opening. Giving him all these new trick webs and an AI just makes Peter look like a dumbass.

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>>93783116
>Vulture was more like a proper Spider-Villain than any that has existed.
Did you not watch Spider-man 1 or 2?

>>93783230
> That said maybe Blacks are over represented because I was kinda surprised that it just seemed to be Liz and Michelle
Blacks are, at best, 16% of the US' population. They are way over represented.

Gays are worse. Gay people are a 5% global minority.

>>93783263
It's the same issue with ASM's plot with peter's parents.

He should start out as an everyman.

>>93783260
But that was Peters entire character arc, learning he doesnt need all this shit the Avengers have. Its reflected in when he wears his old suit, saves himself from under the rubble, and declines Tony's offer. Of course you were supposed to hate all the bells and whistles

>>93783302
>but he keeps the bells and whistles anyways
really makes my brain process thoughts.

>>93783170
Pete's not really a screw-up though, and the thing is you're supposed to like him. If you find him annoying that's actually bad. Hell his "annoying" calls to Happy are clearly supposed to be endearing.

Like very rarely is anything logically Peter's fault it's actually why people complain that he takes unneeded guilt in the comics.

Also
>Liz liked him before he became Spider-man
>Michelle likes him too

He's fairly popular in that regard.

And let's not forget in the comics
>Betty, Liz, Gwen, MJ

>villain TOO sympathetic
The best villains are the protagonists of their own stories

>>93783242
>There were no historical records of military interaction with the infected people.

Where does it say that in the paper you linked? Because that paper seems to be focused on Churchill's claims about the 1837 smallpox epidemic more than anything else.

>>93783290
>He should start out as an everyman.
This. So much this.

>>93783302
I agree, I really turned around on the film in the last third, Tony saying the line about the suit, Pete going into the final fight with nothing but the ratty outfit he had before, and him rejecting Tony's offer

Then they say fuck you and give him back the suit anyways

>>93783000
You're right. Michelle didn't act like Gwen, but she had more in common with Gwen than she did with any version of MJ and I personally could've accepted that interpretation of the character.
>How is that bad?
Because I didn't want to see his downfall. Nothing wrong with a sympathetic villain, but it should never be to the point that you're rooting against the hero.

>>93783328
>Liz liked him before he became Spider-man
>Michelle likes him too

Yes, and this isn't a good thing. It was handled alright in the Raimi films because there was a lot of set up for it, whereas it's not good here.

Peter becoming Spiderman should let him come out of his shell and be likable. They shouldn't already like him beforehand.

>>93783346
>The High Plains smallpox epidemic of 1837 has been analyzed by numerous historians. None of the previous histories have indicated any U.S. Army presence in the vicinity, much less any military involvement in genocide. None have mentioned a word about a boatload of blankets shipped from a military smallpox infirmary in St. Louis. None have mentioned any medical personnel as even being present in the vicinity, much less deliberately violating quarantine by sending infected Indians out among the healthy population.

>>93778032
>Tony Revolori

Revolori Revolori
Give him the death he deservoloris

>>93783328
You're not supposed to like him. You're supposed to laugh at him and how useless he is.
He's a goofy screw up comedy relief character, and Holland captured that perfectly.

>>93783375
See >>93783188
>it can't be definitively proven that the US army gave smallpox blankets to natives in the 1830s, that doesn't mean that smallpox blankets are a myth

>>93783328
>Pete's not really a screw-up though

>Never showed up to class on college
>An emotional mess
>Often adamant this he is /always/ in the right because of his moral highground
>Has to settle as a job in freelance since he can make his own time
>Got out of that stupid gig when he became a teacher
>Fucked that up
>Became a CEO
>Fucked that up.

What did he mean by this?

>>93783361
Im ok with it if Peter just takes out a good number of gadgets considering they were proven counterproductive. He can keep the spider tracers, web bombs, and glider, but everything else will probably be trashed.

>>93783361
Man, imagine how cooler it would have been if he opened the bag and the classic costume was inside. No shitty black lines and no tech.

>>93783290
Don't african americans make up about 25% of NYC though? They're not THAT over represented.

>>93783290
>>93783357
Peter isn't an everyman, he's an underdog.

>>93783403
But Churchill's paper is the only source of the small pox blanket myth.

Ergo if he's full of shit, it's full of shit.

>>93783410
Peter is a cringe comedy character. He's made to annoy you and all the other characters so you are extra amused when shit blows up in his face.

>>93783427
Don't forget spider signal, that shit is a classic.

>>93783337
It wasn't Adrian's story, it was Peter's.

>>93783450
He's both.

>>93779984

It makes more sense to have Flash be a nerd bully rather than a jock bully in a tech magnet though.

>>93783450
He's an annoying doofus.
>>93783328
>Hell his "annoying" calls to Happy are clearly supposed to be endearing.
No way. You're clearly meant to empathize with Happy and eagerly await the part where Peter gets his ass kicked.

>>93783457
Well he certainly needs to ditch the Spider Drone, thats for sure. Unless he kind of makes it this weird pet hanging around his room or something. I suppose Karen could be put on a laptop. In any case most of the shit needs to go

>>93783494
I think you're projecting a bit.

>>93783491
>Rich parents
>implying he has to actually be smart to go to that school anyways

>>93783516
Have you even read the comics? Spider-Man is your classic sitcom character. He's that character that annoys the others and the audience and then gets his comeuppance. Holland really sold me on that.

>>93783166
Elaborate. I thought Peter's personality in the movie was a lot like how he's been depicted in the comics.

>>93783454
Go read the letters between Bouquet and Amherst or the journal of William Trent then come back, kiddo.

>>93783561
He's meant to be a down on his luck everyman. Just because you find him annoying and like when bad stuff happens to him doesn't mean that's the intention.

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>>93783561
>Have you even read the comics? Spider-Man is your classic sitcom character.
Have you? He gets shit on at every opportunity, and is just trying to make the best of it.
Parker luck is a staple of his character

>>93783603
All the other characters find him annoying, it's obvious you're meant to side with them. Even his narration explains how little respect you should have for him.

>>93783564
It's not at all though. Peter isn't some dorky fan boy who idolizes the other Avengers (except maybe Cap, but not to the extreme he shows for Iron Man). In fact, in his first interaction with them he kinda hated them as people (though he did want to join the team). Peter Parker is a character who's torn between a real life and a super hero life because he feels obligated to help people. So he juggles both of them and often times fails at doing so. Despite being a wisecracker and sort of a clown, he takes his work very seriously.

>>93778032
the only good thing was the post credit scene were Cap basically told the audience to fuck off for waiting, pretty cool

>>93783645
That's why people like the Parker Luck. He gets what's coming to him and he deserves it. It makes the stories amusing and keeps the reader coming back. The stories would be lost with out it.

>>93783578
Which aren't historically verifiable. And I cannot stretch this enough, GERM THEORY WASN'T PROPOSED FIRST.

>>93783704
No, people hate the Parker Luck. But as readers it keeps up reading because it's interesting. We don't know what exactly is going to happen. Will he save Gwen Stacy or will he inadvertently snap her neck? Will Peter make it to his date on time, or will he have to cancel because the Rhino is attacking? Peter's not a sitcome character, he's a soap opera character.

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>>93783655
>>93783704
>it's obvious you're meant to side with them.
If that were true then why would they ever show Peter having to sacrifice his public image in oder to come back as Spider-man and do what needs to be done? e.g flaking on a date to save people in a burning building

Do you honestly think we're supposed to be mad at him for doing the right thing?

How does he deserve any of what's happened to him?

The only time he did something to make people dislike him ended with his uncle getting shot and killed because of him and is a character defining moment.

Do you know who Spider-Man is?

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>Movie starts
>Have this big stupid smile on my face when the Spider-Man theme starts playing over the Marvel logo

>>93783704
If he was actually a character that people love to hate then why is there such an uproar everytime he seems like he's getting replaced.

I think you're taking your own views and assuming they're everyone elses.

It's an alright flick and a bad Spider-man movie. Still not as bad as skaterboy Pete though.

>>93783742
>Which aren't historically verifiable

[citation needed]

>>93783375
But Peter has been Spider-Man for a decent amount of time by the time the movie starts. He's not as dweeby and geeky because he's already started to come out of his shell.

Homecoming Peter is basically 616-college Peter put into high school. He's not the angry, maladjusted loner, he's the charming but flaky guy who can hang out at the coffee shop and bask in the "bitches love spider-man"

>>93783878
He's Bendis's Miles.

>>93783410
All of that was the fault of villains. Especially the company. Pete could have legit quit being a superhero and SpOck would still have tried to steal it all away.

>>93783902
Who's basically Peter 2.0 anyway.

Peter being afraid of heights seemed so unnecessary. It only came up in one small part of the movie, and never again after that.

>>93783660
>Peter Parker is a character who's torn between a real life and a super hero life because he feels obligated to help people
I thought they adapted that very well in the movie.
>Despite being a wisecracker and sort of a clown, he takes his work very seriously.
Not necessarily. I can think of several times he blows off work to go be Spider-Man.

I thought they also did a good job with his sense of humor and his general optimism.

>>93783704
>Deserves it

PETER HAS NEVER FUCKING DESERVED THE SHIT THAT HAPPENS TO HIM.
YOU RETARDED SHITBRAIN. FUCK YOU THINK IT'S FUCKING FAIR THAT LETTING SOME DUDE ROB $500 WAS REASON FOR UNCLE BEN TO DIE.
YOU THINK BEING TOO KIND TO KILL GG WAS FAIR REASON TO KILL GWEN.
YOU THINK IT'S FAIR THAT SHIELD FUCKING LETS TRY TO KILL MULTIPLE DICTATORS AND DOCTOR DOOM MULTIPLE TIMES HAS ANY HIGHGROUND TO SAY WOW MAN DON'T SAVE THAT COUNTRY FROM BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS!

FUCK YOU NIGGER IF THERE'S ONE THING SLOTT GOT RIGHT IN SUPERIOR IS THAT EVEN OCK REALIZES PETER IS SO GREAT BECAUSE LIFE SHITS ON HIM SO HARD WITHOUT IT BEING HIS FAULT AND HE STILL DOESN'T GO VILLAIN.

>>93782440
sandwich store was destroyed partially because of him.

>>93783976
None of that is the result of his villains. They're all a result of bad choices, like how Peter is a shit CEO.

>>93784049
>I thought they adapted that very well in the movie.

They didn't though, they put too much focus on him wanting to be a hero. Not out of need, mind you, but because he wanted to be part of Tony Stark's secret club. Peter's life is a scale between Hero and real life that needs to be balanced out.

>Not necessarily. I can think of several times he blows off work to go be Spider-Man.

His work as a hero.

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>>93778679
This. I just want a Batman movie where he can actually fucking emote. Is it really too much to ask for? Just go full digital and make the eyes move. No need to explain it. The audience will understand what's happening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K1qNsE9v0

>>93783704
>Peter deserved for his daughter to die.
Norman, go to bed.

>>93783200
>being mad that you aren't white