Gravity Falls

Only thing I took issue with was the ending. There were lots of great things about it, some mediocre things, some bad things. I think they just needed a little more space and time, really. I wish they'd rounded out the character development for the secondary characters

>>93718086
It would be nice if you were a little more specific instead of going "muh ending, muh character development". What were the good and bad things about it?

Also, I'm not really sure how much more decent material they could have come up with. I have a feeling a hypothetical season 3 would have ruined the show.

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>>93718060
That whole end fight scene between the Mech and the main antagonist was just anti-climatic. There was honestly nothing at risk because you knew the protagonists were going to succeed.

Plus, bringing Stan back within the minute of erasing his memory was pretty lame in itself. They effectively castrated any sense of emotion that scene held. It's been a while so if there are any other faults with the ending that I noticed then I'm just not remembering them.

>>93718451
I literally wasn't sure whether you were talking about the season 1 or 2 finale until the second paragraph.

>>93718060
Remove Wendy and all the teens

>>93718451
I agree stan should've stayed a vegetable, him geting his memory back just made it not a sacrifice.

I get it's a teens show but that doesn't mean they should completely shy away from things like that. The fact that Bill couldn't kill anyone just made him non-threatening. Like what was the point of having Mable in that bubble instead of removing her outright if she's been such a thorn.

I think most of the follies in the show stem from it being unable to tackle more serious themes and consequences.

It's still great though.

The largest (not the only one, but the largest) problem I've had is the complete absolute mischaracterization of Stan during the finale. Stan coherently acts like a bastard with a heart of gold for the duration of the show, being a flawed but fundamentally good person. He also has an iron will and at least some concept of "greater good" considering he spent years trying to save his brother.

Then during the finale he just decides not to follow Ford's plan TO SAVE THE GODDAMN WORD just because he's super jelly and mad that the kids like him more :'(

It's just the epitome of bad, lazy writing. Hirsch is good at slice of life, low stakes shit but the moment any kind of actual serious conflict with true consequences comes into place he just becomes suuuuper lazy.

>>93718950
>Like what was the point of having Mable in that bubble
The bubble was essentially a massive flytrap, he says so himself. Anyone going in to save mabel *COUGHDIPPERCOUGH* would also be trapped in their own fantasies. Bills idea was probably to get as many prophecy people and especially Dips out of the picture.

>>93718060
-More build-up towards the prophecy wheel
-Make Weirdmageddon more of a bizarre hellscape and less of a whackyland
-"Escape from Reality" focuses on Mabel and how she eventually breaks free from the bubble of her own will
-Change Dipper's reason for going back home with Mabel ("The town will always be here, but I'll only get one chance to grow up with you.")
-Have Stan recover all of his memories of what happened during the summer while Ford still has to help him regain his memories of their childhood.
-Waddles stays at the Mystery Shack to be its new mascot and Mabel fits him with her shooting star sweater

The ending should have had an actual sacrifice. I understand that it's a Disney show so actual death would've been out of the question for anything that isn't a paranormal creature like Bill, but there was no reason to make Stan regain his memory within 3 minutes.

>>93720260
It wasn't Disney's decision, it was Alex's. We don't KNOW if Disney would have allowed him that because Alex never tried. He said he didn't want to punish the twins by having them metaphorically lose their uncle. I guess in his mind, the memory thing was more cruel to Dipper and Mabel more than it was redeeming for Stan.

>>93718060
The show does not have to be fix, but some extras episode will improve the show

>>93719080
Then why didn't he make it so it was actually impossible, or at least extremely difficult to leave? The bubble being as toothless as it was, especially for a character who has displayed the extraordinary willpower and resiliace of Dipper, just serves to Make Bill look like even more for an incompetent fuckwit doing things "for teh lulz".

>>93718451
>>93718950
>>93720260
Hirsch actually addressed this stupid point:
>It was never the plan for Stan to lose his memory fully. I love these characters. I loved to see that they are willing to risk it all, but I love them too much to have them lose it all oractually die. The idea that the memory gun would be a way to defeat Bill seemed like a good way, within our internal rules,to take down a character who seemed undefeatable, but at the end of the day, it was very important that Dipper and Mabel would have a final goodbye with their Uncle Stan that was a real goodbye—[that] the Stan we know, and the Dipper and Mabel that we know, got to look each other in the eye, see how much they meant to each other and hug before [the twins] got on that bus to leave town. If Stan had lost his memory for good, that would [have] provided some interesting narrative places for him and his brother to go, but ultimately the show is about the kids. Stan and his brother are meant to be a parable [that show]what can go wrong in a family relationship, [but also]show that, with hard work and sacrifice, the riff can be repaired. If Stan's memory had been fully erased, it wouldn't punish himso much because he'd be gone, but it would punish Ford, Dipper and Mabel most. Even though Ford might deserve that punishment, Dipper and Mabel do not. Ultimately, I felt it would be unfair for them to go through that. As an audience member, I wanted to see that final goodbye.

>>93721084
Hirsch has shit taste. Saying "B-b-but I don't like that" doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better.

>>93721330
That's exactly what an amateur would say in response. Hirsch is a professional showrunner, and because of that he knows the messaging and characterization issues that would result from Stan losing his memory permanently.

Not to mention that it would have robbed us of some of the best moments of the series, let alone the finale: Stan handing over the shack, but even more so the whole Stanowar II deal.

>>93721378
>Hirsch is a professional showrunner
He had one show that he wanted to quit after 20 episodes because he overworked himself. Then he let the pacing and writing of the second season suffer as a result.

Not very professional sounding to me.

>>93718060
I wouldn't backtrack on the character development Wendy, Soos, Pacifica, and Mabel that "Into the Bunker", "Blendin's Game", "NWMN" and "Sock Opera" did with each character's respectively

Here's my idea for a change to the finale that I think would at least partially solve the problems people had with Mabel. I might've posted this in a thread some months ago, I can't quite remember.

The idea would be set during the scene in which Bill is about to kill Dipper or Mabel in front of Stan and Ford. When it's unsure who he's going to pick, Mabel nervously and reluctantly decides to sacrifice her life for Dipper's. This would partially be out of love for her brother and partially be out of guilt for having given away the rift that caused Weirdmageddon, believing it to be all her fault.

She doesn't mention why she decides to sacrifice herself, so Bill decides to force her to admit what she did to Stan, Dipper, and Ford. Mabel tearfully spills her guts about it, and Bill decides to milk this for all it's worth by forcing her to repeat it tothe entire town. He then gleefully tells her that after the barrier is broken, he'll happily tell the entire world that it's all her fault.

After that, Bill drops her on the ground, and she takes the opprotunity to give Dipper one last hug. During this, she sobs that she's so, so sorry for everything.

Bill is just about to kill her in some spectacularly gruesome way hen Stan interrupts disguised as Ford and things basically continue like normal.

Later, Dipper and Mabel have a talk about why she decided to try to sacrifice herself. By the end, Mabel's still feeling guilty, but not as much. Still, she's learned her lesson, and resolves to be a better sister from now on. They make up, and all is well.

>>93718060
Extend by another season. Two at most.

>>93718874
Why?

>>93718060
Dipper should have been a girl

>>93721716
Why?

>>93721710
>I'm not really sure how much more decent material they could have come up with. I have a feeling a hypothetical season 3 would have ruined the show.

>>93721786
Oh, they didn't need three seasons to ruin the show

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>>93721033
It was supposed to be impossible if t weren't for one thing:

Wendy crush episodes, FUCKING Wendy episodes. Dipper was so used to not getting Wendy or having to accept he'd never have her it helped him realise the Wendy wanting his ass wasn't real. He was like 2 seconds away from being honeypotted otherwise.

>>93718060
>dump Dipper being a pua
>have episode about Ford & McGucket meeting up after all this time
>have Mabel realize what a selfish bitch she's been & she just lets go of the bubble rather than what we got
>take away bullshit with memory gun
>no giant mech mystery shack
>have the Stans fight, but they end up reconciling to save their family
>use the fucking space ship if you're going to set it up
>have Stan fight Bill in the mindscape (he was shown to know more about it than anyone else in Bill's first episode). if you need an explanation, how about he spends so much time asleep that he knows how to dream anything he wants
>either no redemption for Gideon or have his redemption be because he sees Bill is just about to kill her
>Mabel can't take the pig with her, but Dipper goes with her & says something cheesy
>if you're going to use the memory gun, don't outright say that's a way to kill Bill. it gives away the whole way you're going to kill him
>bring back the Shapeshifter
>if you're going to erase Stan's mind, don't give him his memories back

>>93718060
Either change Weirdmageddon significantly or remove it entirely

>>93721957
>dump Dipper being a pua
No thanks, that BTFO of everyone saying Dipper is beta, Hirsch is SJW, etc. was fucking awesome

>>93718451
Stan should've lost his memories, but then Ford says something like "we can try to take him back, but it'll take some time"
Timeskip to a month later, Stan remembers the twins, Ford, Wendy and Soos, and hands over the Shack to him. Then he goes on adventures with Ford and begins regaining her memory

>>93722191
even though they acted like he was in the wrong for just talking to these girls & getting his confidence up? or how they acted like he was in the wrong for candy being hurt by all the girls he was talking to b4 they got together?
i wouldn't mind it coming in early season 2, but the 2nd half should pretty much be entirely spent building up to the ending

>>93721774
Hirsch wouldn't have gotten away with treating her the way he treated Dipper.

>>93722701
How so?

>>93718274
Fuck off, you're just going to deny what he says if he goes into detail

>>93721378
This is literally an appeal to authority. Kill yourself.

>>93718992
I physically cringed when he wouldn't get in the goddamn circle. No realistic person who get pissy then of all times.

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>>93718060
There are dozens of things you could fix about Season 2.5 to improve the show, to say nothing of how much better things would have been paced with a third season to work with. Instead I'm gonna focus on utility - making the biggest fixes with the least amount of changes.

"Escape from Reality" was the biggest mistake of the finale, the jokes are cheap, the entire episode completely undermines the tone of the finale and more importantly the character development we needed to see in the penultimate episode. Fix that episode and you fix a LOT of the problems people had with the ending to the series.

Everything building up to Mabel being tricked by Bill and being trapped in the prison follows Mabel's character arc in the final episodes of the season about not wanting Summer to end, to lose her friends, grow apart from her brother, and grow up. What the episode really needed to be was a Gravity Falls twist on "For The Man Who Has Everything", showing Mabel living out her days in a perfect, endless Summer in Gravity Falls with her friends and brother, but ultimately coming to the realization on her own about how wrong and hollow it all is. We need to see Mabel make a personal sacrifice for once and give up something that makes her happy for the sake of doing the right thing.

Instead we got Dippy Fresh and Mabel in Wackyland.

>>93718060
All the episodes were fine so I wouldn't really change anything.
Maybe more Shmebulock but that's it

>>93723022
I still think it's weird that Mabel never apologized for Dippy Fresh

>>93718060
erase the second half of season 2
stretch out the first half to last an entire season
make the society of the blind eye the main villains of the season
end with Ford coming out of the portal
add season 3
actually use Ford as a character and talk about his time in alternate dimensions
make Bill into a good villain or scrap him and make a new villain
make mabel actually suffer consequences of her actions
make a decent finale
Dipper accepts Ford's offer to be his apprentice
they don't both act like idiots and not realize that mabel can just stay too and go to school in gravity falls

misc:
actually use wendy, pacifica, gideon, etc, give them actual character development
don't give the characters tools only to have them never used again
either let dipper get a girl or don't focus on romance at all
make the mysteries actually mean something

>>93722543
I can see the episode being misplaced angle, but there wasn't anything wrong with the ep itself really. He was shown to be in the wrong only for leading the girls on.

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>>93723575
Mabel doesn't apologize for anything, and that's what makes her part in the finale all the more insufferable - her brother risks life and limb to rescue Mabel from what he, his friends, and the audience all assume is either gonna be
A) Some horrible mental prison where she's being tortured constantly or
B) Some perfect like they're going to have to break her heart by tearing her away from
and instead she's the fucking mayor of smile town.

>>93723816
But he wasn't leading the girls on. Nothing either the girls or Dipper did showed any intention of leading to an actual relations ship, and before you say "muh Phone numbers" keep in mind that they meet at tourist traps as strangers. If you think anything long term or lasting can come from that you are a fucking idiot.

>>93723932
The writers had this weird thing against Mabel suffering even the slightest bit

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So is it a rock or is it a face?

>>93724310
It's the face of a rock monster, Obviously.

>>93724310
It's a football.

>>93724344
So is it a rock?

>>93724376
It's a rock that *looks* like a face.

>>93724469
Are you saying it's a face?

>>93724376
A rock that looks like a face Becuase it IS a face, just made out of rock.

>>93724028
But that's not how it was actually portrayed. The girls clearly expected him to contact them, and Dipper himself considered whether what he was doing was wrong.

>>93718060
3rd season
Bit more backstory on Bill
Give Mabel an actual character arc
Paddipica.

>>93724572
>actually portrayed
How it is portrayed is nothing compared to how it actually is. If Hirsch and the writing team seriously expect people to at like that over a random encounter at a tourist trap then they are autists with an understanding of social situations on par with /r9k/bots.

>>93724344
>>93724469
>>93724490
>>93724541
For the last time it's NOT an actual face

>>93724751
Or is it?

>>93724751
I think it's a metaphor

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A third season. The first half of Season 2 was perfectly well and good; if not better than the first season. The issue seemed to from the fact all the build up for the later half of season 2 and early season 3 had to be scrunched together into half a season. And it was fucking terrible.

>>93725284
>Warhammer 40k techpriest.jpg

>>93725284
>WE NEED ANOTHER SEASON GUYS
>literally what the creator was trying to avoid

>>93725479
I thought 3 seasons were initially planned though? It sure had the setup for a three season show.

>>93725284
you realize that if he made another season, he'd probably make it very political

>>93718060
>How would you fix the show?
Remove Mabel.

>>93725734
Unironically this

>>93725734
Ironically this

>>93725734
Figuratively this

>>93725734
Realistically this

>>93725734
Mabel literally makes the show what it is, dumbass.

>>93727485
Bad?

>>93725479
It was supposed to be 3 seasons and a movie, but Hirsh realized too late how much work that would take on a project he was already bored with. He was lucky Disney let him end it at 2 seasons.

>>93727485
Mabel is a selfish obnoxious piece of shit, her entire personality is about being as annoying and childish as possible.
Alex should have give her some character development at least.

>>93727552
It really would've only taken a couple scenes to give her some development and not have her end the series as a selfish shitstain

>>93727552
Or at least not have that fucking unicorn subplot that taught Mabel literally nothing.

Mabel > Wendy > Grenda > Pacifishit

Debate me fuckers

>>93727718
We get it Alex, you wanna bang your sister.

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>>93727748
HOLY SHIT

>>93725284
>>93725561
>>93727525
If you're gonna cite inaccurate info, at least do so correctly: it was "gonna be" 3 seasons OR a movie, not both.

But it was actually going to be 1 season, a second season might never have happened let alone a third.

Giddeons arc didn't really go anywhere. Wendy was useless until the end. Bill should have been more ruthless.

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>>93725479
Because the big name on a project always knows what he's talking about right?

>>93727485
If Mabel was removed, nothing would really change. There would still be mysteries, there would still be adventures, there would still be Dipper learning to grow up. Mabel doesn't contribute anything irreplaceable to the show.

>>93724695
>people to at like that

>>93718060
Remove Wendy

>>93724028
>relations ship

>>93723932
>Some perfect like they're

What?

>>93723001
>No realistic person who get pissy then of all times.

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>>93718060
>How would you fix the show?

get rid of the truly awful fucking ending and all the build up leading to it

continue with the mysteries and adventures

maybe have it span over a few separate summers, so one full summer is one full season

eventually have it lead to Gravity High

>>93735288
>Gravity High

I hope it won't be anything like Equestria Girls.

3rd season
remove wendip parts

>>93721957
What the fuck is a pua?

>>93738754
pick up artist

>>93738754
Pick-up-artist, referring to Roadside Attraction.

>>93722543
>i wouldn't mind it coming in early season 2
This, we just got Ford and the shack protected by unicorn hair, then they leave him and the Shack behind. It was a waste.

>>93718060
Giving Wendy actual epsiodes and tagging along more. Actual development for Mabel, More development for Pacifica. At least one more season to give Ford more development.

>>93735284
Why are you randomly quoting things?

>>93724695
Gotta wonder how Hirsch feels about one-nigh-stands.

>>93724572
How is that any different from say, Wendy having had multiple boyfriends?

From the start, Give Wendy flaws to learn from and an actual character arc, have her tag along considerably more often, and either tone down Dipper's crush significantly or remove it entirely. In general, make her feel more like part of the main cast like she supposedly was

>>93721563
>>93739029
>>93728018
What would be a good Wendy episode? We got close with last Mabelcorn, she was really more of an accessory there.

>>93739327
Maybe something involving a magical/supernatural disease. I always felt the show was missing an episode with one of those

>>93718060
3rd Season. The show was great, it just needed more room to end things right.

>>93718060

>One more season in the middle, each representing one month of summer vacation
>Finale is theatrically-released movie and/or feature-length TV movie instead of 3 episodes released 84 years apart
>Entirely remove the Mabel dreamworld subplot
>Remove prophecy wheel
>Weirdmageddon far, FAR more of an eldritch nightmare world
>Soos sacrifices himself to save the kids
>Stan's memories aren't brought back
>Final photograph in the montage during the end credits: the now-adult Dipper and Mabel having returned to GF with their spouses and own children (twins, natch) posing happily with aged-up versions of all the characters
>^^ Only one Pines brother in picture, ambiguous as to which it is (maybe wearing Stan's fez and Ford's glasses)

Probably more I could think of but I'm tired.

>mabel wendy have to adventure to save dipper from a debilitating disease
I could dig it

>>93741367
I was actually thinking it would be Wendy who gets it.

>>93721330
It's a fucking kid's show. Having that much of a dramatic ending would have been completely unecessary.

>>93741460
Well as long as she's still central to it. There are too many episodes-with-Wendy rather than Wendy episodes.

Personally, I would've had something like this:

Mabel makes up for what she did by doing something heroic to help save the day, maybe something along the lines of >>93721660

After Weirdmageddon, Ford tells her that she's just as capable of heroics as her brother, and apologizes for not seeing it sooner. He tells them that if they still want to, he'd be more than happy to take both of them as apprentices.

Mabel encourages Dipper to say yes, and Dipper says that he's had enough of the supernatural for a while, but that they can take it in a year or two.

>>93721716
No.

>>93718060
Don't make it

New episode list for S2

>13 "FootSoos"
Feeling betrayed by Mabel, Dipper stays over at Soos's house, but discovers strange creatures appearing at night. Meanwhile, Mabel and Stan try to welcome an amnesia suffering Ford back into the world.

>14 "Lumber Aid"
Wendy tries to take Dipper's mind off Mabel by taking him to a secret teen spot while Mable follows.

>15 "The Last Mablecorn"
Mabel and her friends go on a magical quest to get unicorn hair in order to win back Dipper. Meanwhile, Dipper and Stan discover some odd drawings by Ford.

>16 "The Brunch Club"
Dipper and Mabel join Pacifica at an usual country club buffet. Meanwhile, Stan and Soos try to get the perfect meal for Ford.

>17 "Stan by Me"
>18 "Dungeons, Dungeons, and More Dungeons"
>19 "A Dayscare on Gopher Road"
>20 "Society of the Blind Eye Returns"

I got lazy. Anyone want to see S3?

Season 1 was honestly really good but season 2 got fucked by weirdmageddon and the writers pussying out on stans memory.

>remove the action elements of weirdmageddon
>remove all of Bills fucking henchmen
>actually do something about dippers perpetual fuckboy state
>actually make mabels character progress and grow rather than insisting on her childishness as a plot device
>leave stan a vegetable
>honestly fuck weirdmageddon
>extend it by at least one season
>dont beat around the bush about litterally everything

Honestly i wish creators of kids shows with great universes like gravity falls and steven universe etc. would create adult versions of their shows just so they could expand more and further their potential. Maybe they wouldn't work but goddamn it would be better than stunting the potential of such a good thing.

>>93741824
I guess

So what was the problem a lot of people had with Weirdmageddon?

>>93741867
I got even lazier. Pine family goes on vacation together. Hear Ford's adventures. Dipper and Mable grow apart (he takes different jobs, hangs out with different people). Stan actually seriously considers the Mayor thing. Gideon and the Shapeshifter return.

>S3 1 "Fright Nightlight"
>S3 2 "Roadside Attraction"
>S3 3 "Ford's Run"
>S3 4 "Phantom of the Bus Stop"
>S3 5 "Soylent Jeans"
Wendy helps Dipper get a part-time job, but they uncover a dark secret at his workplace. Meanwhile,

>S3 6 "Forever Gleeful"
>S3 7 "Strange Mathematics"
>S3 8 "Dipper Pines Night Off"
>S3 9 "Mable in Pink"
>S3 10 "The Insiders"
>S3 11 "It Came from the Bunker"
>S3 12 "The Stanchurian Candidate"

>>93728018
the first 2 times bill showed up i never really took him as main antagonist material, just some dangerous demon sorta guy which is probably he became shit when they tried to build him up as the final boss guy

>>93723022
Holy shit this - Escape From Reality was the biggest letdown of the series.

>>93718060
More episodes or a third season to build up the plot and develop one-dimensional characters properly.
Sorting out the ending plot would also be good, throwing away the cipher wheel and making it a red herring was a bad move.

Also, sorting out the 2nd season airing orders so the episodes have some semblance of continuity would be good.

Make Season 1 (still Tourist Trapped to Gideon Rises) 13 half hours: less wendip and hits home doesn't get burnt out
Have season 2 be scaryoke to not what he seems and also be 13 half hours (putting two extra episodes between blind eye and nwhs)
The rest is a 13 half hour season 3, using the 4 extra episodes to flesh out ford, and also flesh out ford and Mabel's relationship in general

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>>93741142
The wheel would have been good if it had actual relevance instead of " each of these characters is a symbol lets stand in a circle now"

>>93718060
Get rid of the fat derp character. Literally all of his "jokes" were painful, forced and not "adorable"

Either make the ending explain everything better or just don't hype up an explanation when you don't have one/don't have time to make one, it would have been fine to keep it a mystery.

>>93718060
>Give it a full true third season, have "Not What He Seems" be the season two finale and have the Government agents and Northwest Family (who are actually Bill Cipher Cultist who believe the Portal will release Bill upon to the world) be the main villains, maybe have Preston trick Dipper into believing the portal will release Bill and creates a divide between him and his friends, especially Stan and Mabel.
>Expand of the expanding divide between Dipper and Mabel having them growing apart and being scared of growing up. Maybe have both Dipper and Mabel be in their dream dimension.
>Expand on Mabel's and Ford's character development, make them more likable.
>Tone down on Candy and Grenda screen time, they took up way too much in Season 2.
>Move Roadside Attraction (the worst episode that even the writers seemed to ignore) after Into the Bunker just so the continuity can be smoothed out.

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Can we agree that the worst episode of the series was Roadside Attraction? It was incredibly out of place. You have one of the deadliest villains on the show that killed multiple people and exposed their corpses as an attraction but they didn’t even bother destroying or containing the monster meaning she probably kept doing that. Instead the real “evil” of the episode was Dipper hitting on girls when Mabel isn’t any better (She is worse all things considered).
In other episodes they would contain, destroy or negotiate with the monster but here they ran away and didn’t even bother fighting as much. You could get rid of the episode altogether or pretend it didn’t happen and it won’t affect the plot or the flow of the show in any way. All it was good for was to provide new waifu material but even then it isn’t worth it.

>>93745247
Yes

>>93745247
>No thanks, that BTFO of everyone saying Dipper is beta, Hirsch is SJW, etc. was fucking awesome

>>93744918
You're insane. His lines were probably THE funniest in the show, yes better than Stan's even.

>>93745024
What did they not explain? Every major plot thread was wrapped up, was it not?

>>93745247
I personally think Escape From Reality is worse

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Roadside Attraction was such a mess. Letting Darlene get away scot-free is probably what I have the biggest issue with.

Besides Cipher, she had the biggest body count in the show, but the implication seemed to be that because her victims were all chauvinistic men, it was okay; they brought it on themselves.
She and Pyronica never got enough attention

>>93741524
>its a kids show
Not an argument especially since Hirsch explicitly stated he wanted to target more than just kids with Gravity Falls.

IF you're going to do Weirdmageddon, don't do something stupid like having it be confined to the town for it's entirety.

>>93745247
Yeah the spider-girl was portrayed as "Ha she's just turning objectification around on men!" despite the kill count not being comparable to feelings hurt.
Mabel was at her worst too, trying to pair Candy and Dipper despite learning not to do that in Love God.
No mystery, no satisfying ending, ditched Soos, shit episode.