Has there ever been a worse editorial decision in comics?

No More Jokes in Spider-Man/Deadpool

>>93679108
Let's scrap everything and start completely over.

>>93679108
Quesada's only mistake was that he didn't just kill her off.

>>93679108
I still do not understand why they had to use a covenant with the devil when Wanda rewrites reality regularly and she's a wild card, even now. I would have fired Joe Quesada immediately if he had brought me something like this

>>93679108

I think what's worse than the fact that they undid the marriage, worse than their excuse for undoing the marriage, and worse than the fact that Peter made a deal with the devil, was the fact that there were literally zero consequences for making the deal with the devil.

Like, literally everything is hunky dory. He makes the deal to save Aunt May's life, and she's fine. Quesada just brazenly ignores continuity and fucks up not just Spidey's character, but also Mephisto. Mephisto doesn't make deals that work out for the people he makes them with. Johnny Blaze made a deal with Mephisto to save his surrogate dad from Cancer? You know what happened? Mephisto removed the cancer and then caused him to die in a motorcycle accident. You know what happens to Aunt May after Mephisto makes the deal with Peter? Fucking. Nothing. She's fine.

No, OP, there has never been a worse editorial decision than the garbage that was One More Day. It destroyed Spider-Man as a character by undermining the core of his character. "With great power comes great responsibility? Better make a deal with the devil to save my aunt who literally told me she was ready to die and be with her dead husband by sacrificing the marriage to the woman of my dreams."

Have you read modern Marvel? They make One More Day look like War and Peace.

>>93679108
No more mutants.

>>93679306
This. Who the fuck thinks an actual deal with the devil will actually be in your damn favour? Honestly, I try not to think about it too much, because it just straight up infuriates me that some retard actually published it.

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>>93679108
>OMD cuts sales drastically because it's shit
>sales manage to come back a bit
>then they decide to do OMIT
>sales plummet again

CEOs of normal companies resign or get fired by the board for fucking up that bad. Spider-man is their most popular character and he's stuck with one of the worst writers and all his spin off comics end up getting cancelled due to shit sales.

Meanwhile Batman prints money just for being associated with any comic.

The reason why Marvel abuses events and relaunches is because they can't promote their best characters properly and let them get ruined by shitty writers and sabotage by editorial mandates.

>>93679306
>>93679407
He lost the child he didn't know MJ was carrying

What about Sins Past?(

>>93679483
>He lost the chance to have children with the women he was sacrificing his relationship with
No shit

>>93679500
Sin's Past, as shitty as it was, could be disregarded as "Oh yeah, that happened." whilst OMD changed the status quo for Spidey big time.

>>93679124
I know you're not saying this, but a reboot isn't as bad as One More Day. A reboot wipes the slate clean. One More Day was like pouring poison into the watering hole. And from that poison the worst editorial decision arrived.

Hiring Dan Slott and putting him on Amazing Spider-Man;

I feel bad for JMS, his run is probably my favourite but it's soured by Sins Past and One More Day, which were both altered by editorial.

>>93679703
Pretty much this desu.

>>93679698
After Hickman, i would have liked a true reboot for the marvel universe.

>>93679703
Yes, you are right. JMS was pretty good with Spider-man, but Sin Past It's really , really bad.

>>93679710
The perfect change to.
But then a world built up by the current Marvel couldn't be anything more than shit in a dirt pit.

>>93679585
No, MJ was pregnant that's why she was puking.

>>93679108
The editorial decision would have been fine if the story wasn't so completely shit. Fuck that story. It was the worst thing. I've had cluster headaches that were less of pain in the ass then that book.

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>>93679108
>Has there ever been a worse editorial decision in comics?

This was objectively worse. People still read Spidey after OMD (no idea why, but they did)

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>>93679306
Spidey didn't make the deal with the devil

Marvel did

>>93679108
Having Bendis writing in the 616 universe?

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>>93679108
/thread

>>93679108
No More Mutants was a huge step back for the X-Men that it's never really recovered from.

Seriously, they have to know how much NOBODY liked it, why didn't they just retcon it out as a fever dream?

>>93680104
Because no one's assassinated the quesadilla yet

>>93679963
Disney?

>>93680076
More than anything else, the whole group was totally self-destructive after that event, and yes, they never recover, It only gets worse.

I unironically think One More Day is the greatest comic book ever. Ask me anything

>>93680313
If I shoved my cock in your ass so hard it ruptures your organs, will you like it?

>>93680104
Marvel are more interested in what they want than what their fans want. As far as they're concerned, it's not a matter of people having a different opinion. To them, anyone who doesn't want Peter to go from one meaningless relationship to another is simply wrong.

>>93679224
killing MJ and making Peter a widow would made real progression for the character

Honestly? I'd say pushing the Inhumans over the X-Men by having a death cloud kill the mutants. I think that damaged two franchises at once. Spider-Man meanwhile still sells.

>>93679108
New 52

>>93679483
Again, how did he make a deal with the devil that was in his favor?

>>93679325
THIS

>>93680443
Someone's getting the tapeworm.

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>>93679710
>>Spider-Man back in high school
>>Miles Morales is his classmate

>>93680531
don't want none if you got bugs son

>>93680054
Yeah, I'm going to have to say this. Spider-Man, despite OMD, is still selling. Ultimatum was a sledge hammer to the Ultimate U's head that caused it to stumble around until it died. This was so bad, that nobody remembers the Ultimate Universe anymore. That is worst than OMD.

Marvel should have never let Spidey get married without a backup plan. They chased publicity and quick sales and it worked out too well that they had written themselves into a corner.

Having let it happen, they should have never retconned it once it became clear that their readers, at worst, didn't mind the marriage. It lasted, full strength, for 20 years and JMS was heralded for "fixing" it at the start of his run.

But they retconned it anyway because fuck the fans and have used the last 10 years of their preferred Spidey status quo to let Slott do absolutely jack shit. No story written in the last 10 years will be remembered in the character's run. THAT is why OMD is the worst editorial move. They got what they wanted despite severe negative backlash and then proceeded to do fuck all with it.

>>93680076
>>93680151
What got me so mad about M-Day was that it was just misery that got worst and worst, and then they just focus on other characters. None of the characters who were put through so much pain got good send offs. They just went "Hey look! Here's Quentin Quire! Your new favorite faggot"

>>93679108
any sjw decision that marvel and dc have made the last 4 years

Are the effects of OMD still around or has OMD been retconned?

>>93679108
The unmasking to begin with, getting rid of a lot of secret identities... a LOT of shitty decisions at least on par.

But worse? Identity Crisis.
>>93680076
>was a huge step back for the X-Men that it's never really recovered from
It got rid of a lot of morrison's shit, and prompted good stuff later on.

I haven't touched a single issue of Spide-Man since OMD. The butthurt is still real.

I considered it a few years back, but that was around the time of Peter being put in Doc Oc's body and I gave it a pass. Now he's nottonystark, which makes him even less interesting as a prospective reader.

>>93679108
I dont think its worse than OMD but New 52 was pretty fucking bad, it was a reboot that didnt want to be a reboot and in general editorial didnt know what the fuck to do, it was all over the place for the most part with no real goal or intent that ended up being canned completely. It was a publicity gimmick that was carried for too long and too seriously with nothing of substance to back it up.

There's some good stories in that time but those stories are not really depending on new 52, they could've happened in the 'old' continuity.

>>93679108
Maybe The New 52. Maybe.

>>93679108
>>93679108
Kicking PAD off Incredible Hulk and resetting about 140 issues of character development for no fucking reason was pretty bad. And IMO Hulk still hasn't recovered from that. And he probably never will.

>>93680566
People remember. Liking it is another matter entirely.

>>93680728
Don't forget that it moved a lot of characters and franchises off of the chess table for years in favor of pushing specific characters and stories like Justice League: Origin, or Harley Quinn and her Suicidal Friends. So long, Captain Marvel, Legion of Superheroes, and the Justice Society.

The New 52 was also a redesign of the universe to be much more "cinematic" and aesthetically appealing to movie-going audiences. It was driven by Warner Bros desiring a universe that would have more synergy with their films from an aesthetic standpoint in addition to a narrative one. This is why Superman, Flash, Batman, ect. all got unnecessary costume redesigns that did away with the spandex and went for armored paneling.

New 52 was pretty much Marvel's Nuhumans or Carol Danvers push but on a line-wide scale.

>>93680804
To be fair, it was also to capture modern youths that grew up with edgier, grounded and grittier aesthetiics to media in general, not guys in bright spandex. The N52 designs fit that idea, but were too much of a change from what was originally there.

I am personally enjoying Rebrth's blend of the two. Apart from Barry's design. It still looks shiit with those yellow lines.

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>>93679224
>>93680408
They did that and it didn't work, they ended up having to bring her back pretty quick. Don't know why the outcry over that worked but 10 years later OMD is still upheld. And you're right, Peter was great as a widower.

>>93679649

Truth. At least you can largely ignore the fact that it happened.

Renew Your Vows, as good as it was, and Amazing is a CONSTANT reminder of what was lost.

Spider-Man is probably the most marketed fictional character in the world. Maybe Santa Claus has him beat. But he's up there. There are children in America right now that only know two words in the English language: Spider and Man. He is huge as a money maker. I work in a school, and let me tell you almost every classroom you'll go in has a half-dozen Spider-Man backpacks, lunchboxes, shirts, or shoes. It's even bigger when a new movie comes out.

Now, you'll notice that in virtually - if not every - other medium besides comics, Spider-Man is unmarried. This is because the character's 'default' is a student working for the Daily Bugle with all sorts of problems - the least of which usually isn't a string of problems tied to a female love interest.

Other characters deal with this too - for almost twenty years Adam West's portrayal of Batman was the default. It took a big-ass movie to change that into the dark, brooding hero we think of today.

Spider-Man being married fundamentally detracts from that marketable 'default' status. It ages him at least ten years, and it is not interesting to younger readers. A kid could go watch, say, the latest Spider-Man movie (TASM2) and read a comic where Spider-Man is married and there would be an element of confusion. Maybe it wouldn't last very long, maybe it would, but it would decrease the chances of that kid reading another Spider-Man comic.

>>93681082
Most superheroes aren't married for that very reason. It takes a certain aspect of their character and grinds it to a halt, along with all the other drawbacks I mentioned. Fuck, they gave Batman a kid and still didn't marry him. The only superhero who it seems to work for is Superman, and that's because Superman and Lois Lane has been a thing for almost eighty years.

And they STILL un-married him when New 52 came around.

The fact is, Spider-Man's marriage was a publicity stunt that, somehow, tied to the cartoon strip of the time. I guess it was popular back then, because that's the only reason why I'd see editorial thinking it would be okay - to match one up with the other. Who knows.

All I do know is that they have been trying to undo it ever since, and even if it took a mediocre ass story, I'm glad Joe Q had the balls to do it.

>>93680670

Nope, and Dan Slott said that Marvel is never ever times infinity ever undoing it, even if Bill Gates buys Marvel from Disney it's still not happening. Even if all 100 of the hottest women in the world lined up to fulfill all of the CEO of Disney's sexual fantasies in exchange for it being retconned it's still not happening.

>>93681082
>>93681094

Okay, who is this, Joe or Dan?

>>93681082
I remember this pasta

>>93681162
>>93681187
Try and refute it.

>>93681209
It's entirely predicated on the dual assumptions that a) a character being married makes him more unattractive to younger readers and b) people are noticeably put off by differences between movies and comics, neither of which I believe to be true.

>>93681137
>Nope, and Dan Slott said that Marvel is never ever times infinity ever undoing it,
Wait, didn't they say that they were never ever times infinity undoing Peter's unmasking in the first place?

I believe the exact words were something like "it won't be undone with a magic wish" which is essentially what happened.

>>93681411
>a character being married makes him more unattractive to younger readers
When the younger, unmarried version of the character is the one in all the cartoons, movies, video games, etc. that's a given.

>people are noticeably put off by differences between movies and comics
Maybe not 'put off', but they'll no doubt recognize the changes and, if they liked the movie/show/video game/tennis shoes or whatever the case may be better than the comic they're flipping through, they may put that comic back on the shelves.

>>93681209
We can't because it's textbook begging the question.

>>93681604
>Shit, he's got me...what was that one thing I learned in philosophy class before I dropped out of community college? Ah, begging the question. I'll accuse this faggot of doing that and then I'll look smart!

>>93681209
It's already been done. Just like in the last thread you eventually had no defense other than "no one refuted my argument".

>>93681619
Your entire argument is based on one point that is in dispute and you cannot prove.

It is literally the definition of begging the question.

>>93679108
No that would be America Chavez

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The one character Bendis wrote halfway decent and he killed him off for Miles.

>>93681632
Yeah, an argument that no one can refute is a solid argument - it's almost like Marvel's reasoning behind the OMD retcon was sound!

>>93681715
>When I decide who wins, it's impossible for me to lose!

>>93681766
You are more than welcome to refute my post above. Or, you can stubbornly refuse and come across looking like a pathetic idiot. The choice is yours.

>>93681805
You're the only one looking like an idiot by refusing any and all arguments that refute your bullshit

Hal becoming evil and deciding to fuck the entire time continuum was pretty shitty, even if it's all been swept under the rug.

>>93681082
You're entire argument is based around sales and marketability, not the qualities of the actual story.

>>93680530
This is a given if there is a full reboot, unfortunately. They're even forcing him into the new game where Peter has only been Spider-Man for a few years and I believe he's going to be in the new animated series as well.

>>93681805
You argue in maybes, could haves, and it's possibles. There's no facts and you put the burden of proof on us.

I'm amazed you made it out of a Jr High English class.

>>93681893
I've already said the story itself is bad. Do you really think the suits at Marvel were thinking about that when they decided to do OMD?

The screwjob that was the Death and Return of Superman

>>93681972
I got my hopes up for nothing. Stupid fucking healing comas.

>>93681137

He said that so that people would leave him alone.

It didn't work but it was probably worth a try considering how many people hate OMD.

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>>93681903
And the worst part? Due to synergy, we'll be seeing Miles stay around in the comics.

I'd much prefer to see Scarlet Spider, but I guess Marvel won't let up on this push for diversity.

>>93681972
The Death itself was stupid but World Without and The Return of Superman were great.

>>93681082
And picking up a comic to find Peter a rich buisnessman wouldn't be confusing?

>>93682180
That is too, no one's defending that decision, but it's more easy to reverse/retcon that Peter being married for 25 years.

>>93681588
Let's just, say, hypothetically you're correct from a marketing stabdpoint. Why do you personally like OMD? Do you think all capes should be bound to a status quo, never to evolve?

>>93682244
Marvel's problem was letting it last longer than 20 months, let alone 20 years. they should have never let it happen in the first place and then when they couldn't get the early retcons to stick because it was too popular, should have just gone in on an OMD then, in the early 90s.

The Spider marriage was mismanaged from the start. It should have never have happened and then once it did, it should have been eliminated much quicker, and when it wasn't, it should have been left to stand or end naturally.

>>93681082
>Other characters deal with this too - for almost twenty years Adam West's portrayal of Batman was the default. It took a big-ass movie to change that into the dark, brooding hero we think of today.

Then let's make a movie with adult Spidey with a wife instead of the nth shitty high school film/cartoon series
If it worked for Batman, why should it not work for Peter?

Frankly, I don't think it's the getting rid of Spidey's marriage that pisses people off. Retconning it so it never happened is the only way to not age the character up. It's the fact that he made a literal deal with the devil to do that's maddening.

>>93679108
Byrne retconning away Og Superboy was a giant clusterfuck that should never have happened.

>>93679108
There are few stories that are as badly written and no stories as widely hated in cape comics. The fact that Marvel likes to antagonize their fans by reminding everyone they published this toxic waste does not help.

>>93682710
Wasn't that something that editorial wanted? I think the robotic Krypton was worse than a lack of Superboy.

>>93679941
Doesn't Captain America has now sales in the same range Black Panther and Crew did when it got cancelled? It's in the 30s, you know it's only not getting cancelled as long as SE lasts.

>>93682599
>pym slap
>OG Secret Wars and the start if the event cylce
>OG Secret Wars 2- the suckage
> Parker gets Married
>drive away the top talent

It's just one of the many creative clusterfucks that have Jim Shooter at its core.

>>93682670
I think that's the core of it. The story itself is so anti Spider-Man and is one of the worst stories ever written in modern comics.

You can argue all day about the marriage being healthy for the long term future of the character. Seeing as it lasted 20 years (which is more than 1 generation of new readers) and was in a good place with fans just before OMD, and Spidey was still by far the most marketed cape in existence, I would say it had no negative impacts. But I don't have access to Marvel's bottom lines (and I don't the shill anon here does either) so can't say for sure.

But the manner in which they were broken up is what still infuriates the fanbase a decade later. also given that they've done exactly nothing with their precious retcon in those 10 years does make the OMD decision one of the worst in hindsight.

>>93682729
I can't remember if it was editorial or Byrne, but it fucked up lOSH hard and forever and stole part of their draw.

Spider-Man core moral: great power is a great responsibility
OMD: all you gotta do to have power is to ask, and fuck responsibility! LOL

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>>93682670
>Frankly, I don't think it's the getting rid of Spidey's marriage that pisses people off. Retconning it so it never happened is the only way to not age the character up.
He'd been married since the goddamn 90's. It undid a lot of continuity.

They didn't need to de age him. That's what Ultimate was for.

On another note, this was fucking stupid, Have they undone making her the Iron Fist yet?

>>93682779
Marvel Super Hero Contest of Champions is technically considered the start of the event cycle. Still Jim Shooter behind it though.

>>93680699
>It got rid of a lot of morrison's shit, and prompted good stuff later on
The good shit was the "mutants as a growing population with actual cultural impact" angle Morrison moved the franchise into. The only good thing to come from No More Mutants is Rightclops. Since HoM we had years upon years of "we're all gonna go extinct soon" stories followed by a few years of them fighting each other, then the garbage direction Aaron and Bendis took the franchise in leading into the current "we don't even care anymore" books that are a complete afterthought.

In the last five years alone we've gotten some of the shittiest X-Men stories of all time: AvX, Aaron's entire run, Bendis' entire run (but specifically The Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier), Battle of the Atom and IvX. I can't really think of much produced during the Morrison era that comes close to any of that. The current stuff lacks any sort of direction and is such an afterthought creatively that it's about in the hole the Avengers were in during the mid and late '90s.

>>93682891
Danm, anon, I'm older than shit and I have no memory of that, but I was a DCFag at the time.

>>93680601
The 10's are the 80's all over again for Peter.

Tons of stories that nobody remembers.

>>93683031
Stern had some good 80's stories. I like Roxon Will o the Wisp/Tarantula storyline.

>>93680949
Quesada is a very stubborn man. That's really all it came down to. Someone to not only do it but to then be stubborn enough to not back down. Remember that Quesada's the guy who was so gung-ho about being pro Marvel that he effectively killed the possibility of DC and Marvel working together again. Specifically it's long speculated that it's thanks to this line from Quesada from an interview around the time the first Spider-Man film came out.

>What the fuck is DC anyway? They'd be better off calling it AOL Comics. At least people know what AOL is. I mean, they have Batman and Superman, and they don't know what to do with them. That's like being a porn star with the biggest dick and you can't get it up. What the fuck?

That was 2002. JLA/Avengers started in 2003 but was too far along to just call off presumably but after that DC has never worked with Marvel with Bob Wayne stating it'll never happen as long as Queada's employed by Marvel. This also killed the Daredevil/Batman story Bendis was supposed to have been doing in the mid-2000s as well.

>>93682897
Morrison's run was on par with bendis, fight me.

>The good shit was the "mutants as a growing population with actual cultural impact" angle Morrison moved the franchise into. The only good thing to come from No More Mutants is Rightclops.
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Stuff like Messiah CompleX/Second Coming/Necrosha felt like classic Claremont events, it's a matter of having decent writers in charge.
The whole mutants as a growing population could have been done better, and not of a sudden, simply focusing in the Genosha population instead of killing them off for no reason.
And Rightclops was always based. For all its faults, Eve of Destruction already had him back from the dead and reminding everyone who's boss.

>>93682874
They also used BND as a blanket to do a lot of stupid shit, like retconning harry's death

>>93681082
All the young adults right now are confused about why Peter doesn't have a wife when Spider-Man 3 had him married and MJ was in tons of shit in the 90's and early lights. This will likely skip down to their kids as well, causing a sudden bubble of confusion about a decade from now among the kids who adore Peter.

>>93682897
Actually I think I meant to say Death of X instead of IvX but both of them are complete garbage, Death of X moreso, so it stays.

>>93683131
But that was kinda cool, there were some nice stories with Harry.
DESPITE OMD, mind you, not defending it.

>>93683092
>This also killed the Daredevil/Batman story Bendis was supposed to have been doing in the mid-2000s as well.
Well, something good had to come from that.

I never cared for the marriage, but I just read Micheline/Larsen and it doesn't really fuck things up.
What a great run, btw.

>>93683185
I dunno, i did hate when they brought back norman as well but in a flanderized state, specially when they had the hobgoblin as a succesor entity wich was interesting on it's own, bringing harry back was just for the hell of it and ruined one of my favourite comic book deaths ever, it was as bad as ultimate peter coming back from the dead

>>93683285
Comic book writers and fans refuse to let go.
Bruce has been around for nearly a century, but God forbid we let Dick keep the cowl.

>>93683199
How micheline did peter's social life was top comfy, and the marriage is written even better during JMS run, don't bother reading why they separated prior to that, it was an awful run full of everything wrong with the 90s

>>93683122
I don't care for Morrison's actual run because his hatred of the X-Men permeates throughout it but the status quo he helped establish was great.

Messiah CompleX was a mediocre story that worked (along with Swierczynski's Cable series) in completely ruining Bishop, a popular character who had been part of the X-Men for 15 fucking years at that point, to the point of making him completely unusable. I'm half-interested to see what they'll do to try to fix him in Astonishing because they already tried once and it didn't work.

Second Coming and Necrosha were both garbage. Not among the worst X-Men stories ever (if anything from that time period qualifies it's Deadly Genesis which is one of the most flagrantly disrespectful stories I've ever seen; up there with OMD) but neither were they very good either. Necrosha especially is bad because it's a bunch of issues of nothing until someone gets to see Selene fulfill their giantess fetish and then get stabbed by Warpath. That's to say nothing of the fact Yost & Kyle wrote Wither horribly and how much I hate their New X-Men for doing to that generation of characters what Messia CompleX did to Bishop.

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>>93683285
>it was as bad as ultimate peter coming back from the dead
See, I didn't mind that. It could have been done better, but I didn't mind it.

>>93683285
Ultimate us just an endless cascade of bad editorial from everybody's an asshole to mass drowning to taste like chicken to killing ultimate Pete.

>>93682106
The death was the only reasonable part, World Without was almost okay and then Return fucked it up. They did it way too soon.

>>93679108

Remove the bit where no super scientist or magical being could heal bullet wounds and its not so bad

>>93683285
The problem with bringing back Harry is that he's done nothing. Harry is Peter's best friend and him being alive should be huge. He should be a large and constant presence in the books. Instead Harry Osborn has been alive again for 10 years and has basically been a bit character playing less of a role than Silver Sable, Carlie Cooper, Liz Allan or fucking Mockingbird.

>>93683397
Max Modell, the midget, Sajani, most of the terrible characters from Horizon. All of them have had more importance in ASM than Harry. Utterly ridiculous.

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You know....she has a point.

>>93683393
That's the most infuriating thing, reed is remodeling the universe but can't remove a bullet

>>93679422
>The reason why Marvel abuses events and relaunches is because they can't promote their best characters properly and let them get ruined by shitty writers and sabotage by editorial mandates.

But why? I just don't get it.

>>93683397
It's emblematic of why OMD is the worst editorial decision of the modern era.

Marvel got what they wanted and did so by dividing a fanbase along fault lines that will never heal. OK, maybe the ends justifies the means. But it hasn't because they haven't told anyone memorable stories in the past 10 years that required a single Peter Parker. He's one arc away (which is being put into motion with the Fall of Parker solicits) from being the exact same penniless, loveless, no respect having loser Marvel wants him to stay as. All of this with the added knowledge of him also being indebted to an evil embodiment, the literal Devil of the Marvel universe.

Technically they needed OMD to fix the secret identity issue. but any kind or comics voodoo would have fixed that.

>>93683349
>ruining Bishop, a popular character who had been part of the X-Men for 15 fucking years at that point, to the point of making him completely unusable
I'll definitely give you that, though I had no clue about Bishop being popular.

>if anything from that time period qualifies it's Deadly Genesis which is one of the most flagrantly disrespectful stories I've ever seen
Also agreed, it was shit. Somehow brubaker made me care about the new characters in their backup introduction stories, but the whole thing was a fucking trainwreck where brubaker did the same fucking thing he does in every fucking book, retcon skeletons in someone's closet an killing off characters. What's worse, he extended it into a whole run about his villain sue... as usual.

>Necrosha especially is bad because it's a bunch of issues of nothing until someone gets to see Selene fulfill their giantess fetish and then get stabbed by Warpath.
That's one point I have to disagree big time. Besides stuff like bringing back the demon bear, the finale had great moments like Wolverine making up for one of his greatest fuck ups ever, and Warpath fighting his brother and getting to say goodbye. I'm not sure the giant Selene thing was much about a giantess fetish, so much as a final boss fight thing.

>>93683569
And the real culript is civil war, a shitty overrated story that gave scars that will never heal to most of the universe

>>93683625
>overrated
I thought most actual readers considered it shit? Even Marvel could only promote it as "controversial".

>>93683625
What happened with Peter was gonna happen, Civil War or not. That was the reason JMS did that Loki story. Loki was supposed to be the one to erase the marriage. JMS wanted to do drastic reprecussions (Peter gets Harry help for his drug problem, so in causes a chain of events that means Sins Past and the deaths of Gwen and Norman and Harry never happened) but obviously everyone else didn't want that.

I would believe the claim back in 2008 that they needed to do OMD to get Spider-Man back to his roots or some other empty talking point. But 9 years later all I've seen is a lot of vastly sub-mediocre (or worse) Spider-Man comics even by Spider-Man comics' own standards. OMD definitely wasn't worth it at all.

>>93683667
Civil War is still a popular story in spite of that. The trade is one of Marvel's top sellers outside of comic shops every year. As terrible as it is, the Millar story is still self-contained and only mostly works if you don't know a thing about the characters.

>>93683778
The loki story seemed more like a countermeasure for bullshit like that , since loki owes him a favor

>>93683874
The problem at the time OMD was to be written was that Loki was dead along with all the Asgardians during Disassembled. That's why they used Mephisto.

And they'll probably deny this, but the whole setup with OMD seems suspiciously like they were looking at the unused Superman 2000 proposal where Braniac and Luthor discover and reveal Superman's identity to the world, then Lois is affected by Braniac and will die, so Superman turns to Mxyzptlk for help. Mxy says he can help but only by doing it in a mischievous way, basically altering time so that Superman never revealed his identity to Lois and in turn never got married. The four writers of the proposal (Morrison, Waid, Millar, Peyer) allegedly discarded this idea because they didn't feel like it would work with Superman.

>>93684379
Source?

>>93680054
I can't even remember what happened in Ultimatum anymore. All that comes tk Ind is that The Blob ate the Wasp and The Thing crushed Doom's skull.