Why is he the villain?

>>93639850
God forced him to be to stroke his own ego.

>>93639850
Cause the bible says so, duh. And you should always believe everything you read.
Incidentally, I'm a girl on the internet.

>>93639862
This. There where literally no reason for god to not just make him be okay with letting the Jews go. But instead he choose to draw it out to show his destructive powers to the Jews and Egyptians.

>>93639850
Oy vey, da jewish people were bein taken advantage of, goyim.0

>>93639862
God doesnt force you to commit sin. He gives you up when you choose the path of sin and its in your hands.
The early isrealis had a moment were the wrre degenerate as fuck and this was mentioned, i can probably find it but its not a /co/ related discussion to have.

>>93639862
Not in the Jewish version of the story. In the original, Yahweh and the Egyptian Gods were having a pissing contest and the Egyptian Gods hardened his heart after every plague so he wouldn't yield and they only backed off when they realized that Yahweh could literally kill every last Egyptian to get what he wanted.

It's only the modern Chaotic/Christian stories that don't want to imply that this story was a war between Gods so they just make him a dick

>>93639934
How shitty would it be to be an Egyptian God, and this newcomer Yahweh starts stealing your fame and glory?

>>93639850

God opressed him and shit, cause he and the jews were mad that the egyptians wuz kangs.

>>93639994
>power devided among a bunch of gods who may or may not like each other
Vs
>power into one superior being absolutely
It isnt hard to imagine why monotheism caught on

>>93639994
The whole point was that the Egyptian Gods didn't realize how out of their league they were. They'd always assumed they'd "beaten" Yahweh which is why the Jews were enslaved, so that's why they didn't take him seriously when he said "Alright, funs over furries let my people go"

This naturally miffed Yahweh, so the 12 Plagues were more to humiliate the powerlessness of the Egyptian gods in his way, since if you can't stop another God from preforming miracles, what good are you?

Old testament god was a fucking dick
New testament god is a cool dude

>>93639928
>early Israelis
You realize this is a myth, right? This didn't actually happen.

>>93639850
Because he's black and the other guy is jewish.
Think about it.

>>93639850
Because he was standing by the bad decisions of his father instead of confronting them and changing.

Moses learned about the murder of the hebrew babies and decided to distance himself from that. Ramses could've done the same. He could've been a better man than his father was, but chose not to be.

>>93640072
Pretty much this. Also, Jesus was the broest of bros.

>"Fuck the commandments, just treat others the way you want to be treated."

>>93639850
Ancient biblical history implies he's a fucking oppressor.

>>93640233
Ancient biblical history implies there exists a mountain on Earth from which you can see the entire surface of the Earth at once.

>>93640329
...No it doesn't.

I mean I get your general thrust, but I'm pretty sure there is no ultimate mountain in the Bible.

>>93639928
except for the part where it explicitly says that God "hardened the Pharaoh's heart"

>>93640103
What? The tribe of juda who went on to create isreal never existed? Is that what youre implying?

>>93640578
The EGYPTIAN GODS hardened his heart, not Yaweh.

>>93640192
He NEVER said to disregard the old word he CONSTANTLY belittled his opponents on how LITTLE they knew about their own fucking religion.

>>93640192
>>"Fuck the commandments
Jesus never said that, he never even implied it. He constantly said the old word was still the word of God and should be adhered to.

>>93639850
Slave owning dictator.

>>93639886
God doesn't fuck with people's free will.

>>93640665
Ra, Obelisk or Slifer?

>>93640990
I'm not sure if it mentions a specific one, go read the original story.

>>93640665
Bruh. God hardened his heart to prove his power to the captured Hebrews.

And then he wound up destroying the Hebrews anyway.

>>93640780
The whole point of Jesus is that he makes a new covenant with humanity (a 'testament', if you will) that supersedes the old one.

>>93641018
Depends which version you're citing. The oldest version its the egytian gods who do this.

>>93641033
But doesn't invalidate it.
Just means we no longer need to sacrifice blood of our livestock or of our own for him anymore.

Moses is torn up about what he's doing throughout the movie and even at the very end he still feels bad about what happened to Ramses. He just was full of himself at first because he was pharaoh, and was driven to madness and rage when his land was destroyed and his child died, which is understandable. In fact they play up the fact that his magicians were constantly stroking his ego in several scenes, they're arguably more villains than he is. Furthermore, he desperately wished to live up to his father's expectations, as was readily established at the beginning of the movie, and felt like letting Hebrews go would be an admission of failure, which his father was very hard on him about. He's a sympathetic villain throughout the movie, forced into the situation by outside influence, and is never portrayed as being outright evil. It's honestly one of my favorite things about Prince of Egypt.

So are there Egyptian Gods or not? Which version of the Bible is canon?

>>93640990
Go home yami

>>93639850
In the context of the movie, his ego and personal issues lead him to keep the Jews in bondage to the detriment of everyone.

>>93641282
Egyptian gods predate christian god. Humans went from poly to mono theis. Because its much easier to adhere to the ideal god then a set of gods and the god of gods.

>>93640192
Jesus never said that, but he was a fucking rebel vs the Jewish tradition of purity.

Most of his miracles where done on people outside of the community that was allowed in the temple.

>>93641257

Indeed, they put a lot of effort into making him an interesting figure which is why they don't kill him at the end (as happens in the Bible). Ralph Fiennes puts in a great performance.

>>93641018
>>93641045
Not even in the bible. Not exactly. God's hardening of you heart is a mercy. You are BORN sinned, remember.
Its not that God MADE the pharaohs heart harden, and more that he ALLOWED it to be harden on the pharaohs own will by tipping over the first domino by sending Moses to him with his message.

The passage people all get confused about, I will provide the hebrew for it as well.
ז:א וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְ-הֹוָה֙ אֶל מֹשֶׁ֔ה רְאֵ֛ה נְתַתִּ֥יךָ אֱלֹהִ֖ים לְפַרְעֹ֑ה וְאַהֲרֹ֥ן אָחִ֖יךָ יִהְיֶ֥ה נְבִיאֶֽךָ: ז:ב אַתָּ֣ה תְדַבֵּ֔ר אֵ֖ת כָּל אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֲצַוֶּ֑ךָּ וְאַהֲרֹ֤ן אָחִ֙יךָ֙ יְדַבֵּ֣ר אֶל פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְשִׁלַּ֥ח אֶת בְּנֵֽי־ יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מֵאַרְצֽוֹ: ז:ג וַאֲנִ֥י אַקְשֶׁ֖ה אֶת לֵ֣ב פַּרְעֹ֑ה וְהִרְבֵּיתִ֧י אֶת אֹתֹתַ֛י וְאֶת מוֹפְתַ֖י בְּאֶ֥רֶץ מִצְרָֽיִם: ז:ד וְלֹֽא יִשְׁמַ֤ע אֲלֵכֶם֙ פַּרְעֹ֔ה וְנָתַתִּ֥י אֶת יָדִ֖י בְּמִצְרָ֑יִם וְהוֹצֵאתִ֨י אֶת צִבְאֹתַ֜י אֶת עַמִּ֤י בְנֵֽי יִשְׂרָאֵל֙ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ מִצְרַ֔יִם בִּשְׁפָטִ֖ים גְּדֹלִֽים: ז:ה וְיָדְע֤וּ מִצְרַ֙יִם֙ כִּֽי אֲנִ֣י יְ-הֹוָ֔ה בִּנְטֹתִ֥י אֶת יָדִ֖י עַל מִצְרָ֑יִם וְהוֹצֵאתִ֥י אֶת בְּנֵֽי יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מִתּוֹכָֽם
(cont)

>>93642321
7:1 Yhwh said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. 7:2 You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his land. 7:3 And I will stiffen Pharaoh’s heart,[5] and I will multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt. 7:4 And Pharaoh will not listen to you, and I will lay my hand upon Egypt and bring my people the Israelites, company by company, out of the land of Egypt by great acts of judgment. 7:5 The Egyptians shall know that I am Yhwh, when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”

He also said
3:19 Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand. 3:20 So I will stretch out My hand and smite Egypt with various wonders which I will work upon them and after that he shall let you go.
>Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand
There are many other indication he didn't harden his heart or strip away his free will completely, (Exod. 7:13, 22; 8:19 8:32)

Samuel 6:6, also proves otherwise that the pharaoh was under God's control, it was his own free will that lead him there.
God sent Moses to the pharaoh, so inevitably such an action meant the pharaoh would have to make a decision. And of course God knew what the pharaohs choices would be. God sets the stage, we are actors of free will within that stage. 10:5-11 state he will use the sinners for his causes.

God already KNOWS what the pharaohs decision is, he didn't harden his heart on his own he was stating his heart hardening was inevitable because this is necessary for his plan. The pharaoh was a sinner long before Moses arrived.

>>93642341
*wasn't under Gods control

Cause he's black. Black people are always the villain

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>>93640945
> God doesn't fuck with people's free will.

Exodus 7:3
> But I will harden Pharaoh's heart

>>93642402
The pharaohs heart was already hardened, God was stating the obvious.
>Yet I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except by a mighty hand
The original hebrew doesn't exactly translate as that anyways.

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>>93642447
> The original hebrew doesn't exactly translate as that anyways.

oh shit we've got an Ancient Hebrew expert in this thread. Just pick any translation you like from the link provided. God literally made Pharaoh to refuse to let the Jews just so he could show off.

>>93642447
>The pharaohs heart was already hardened,

No, god hardened it as the text says. God cares not for freewill,

>>93640945
>Slave owning dictator.

Wait....the Jews had slaves. God never condemned slavery.

>>93642616
Exod. 7:13, 22; 8:19, 8:32, 3:19
Samuel 6:6
God may use you, but he doesn't force you to sin.
The hardening of the pharaoh was inevitable, God knew this. He was stating it. He used the pharaoh's ego to his advantage to make a display out of Egypt.

>>93642659
>It's ok when we're the ones doing it
t. everyone

Keeping jewish slaves was looked down upon, since jews always bought their citizen back. Jews believed to be chosen people and so keeping their image clean, freed jews that had been taken slave under non-jewish families. One would only keep jew as a slave to bargain them to Israel, or if the master was jew themself.

>>93642577
Well he's not wrong. It isn't an exact translation. Of the dozens of languages that have conventions that don't translate into english you're surprised Ancient Hebrew is one of them?

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>>93642693
> God doesn't fuck with free will excepts when he does but it's okay because it's the same in the end

it's like saying murder isn't murder because the victim would've eventually died anyway

>>93642783
>> God doesn't fuck with free will excepts when he does but it's okay because it's the same in the end
I never stated the first half of that sentence, that is a misconception christians make all the time though.
God is ALL FUCKING powerful, of course he can strip away your free will. He tends not to fuck with it because he wants an organic experience of your character in order to judge it.
He will use a sinner to his advantage, this is clearly stated

>>93642577
He's not wrong. Hebrew is a sketchy language to translate into English.

>>93642772
of course it's not an exact translation, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is right. By that logic, you can just pick anything you don't like in the Bible and call it a bad translation. You'll just have to find a source you trust the most and use it. In this case, all the translations say the same, and just English ones, I also checked 2 others.

>>93642928
> and just English ones
*not

>>93642928
It means we don't know if that is what was really stated in the original text because Hebrew is hard to translate into English. All the example of translation you gave are English one.

The word hebrew word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה

to harden, to make difficult ; (scholarly) to question

So which is it?

>>93642986
I am going to trust people who spent their entire lives studying, and they seem to go with the first

Иcхoд 7:3
Ho Я oжecтoчy cepдцe фapaoнoвo, и явлю мнoжecтвo знaмeний Moих и чyдec Moих в зeмлe Eгипeтcкoй;

Ելք 7
3 Սակայն ես թույլ կտամ, որ փարավոնի սիրտը համառ դառնա, և կշատացնեմ իմ նշաններն ու հրաշքները Եգիպտոսում։

just post the songs.

>>93639850
cos' slaves

>>93639850
Great. It's this shit again. Fuck off to /pol/ or /his/.

>>93643048
Again, you trust it but it doesn't even make sense because its contradicted. Its not like """Experts"" haven't been wrong before. See "Though shall not kill" shit fiasco

To question the pharaoh or the make it difficult on him is the more obvious use of the word here.

>>93643103
yes, every single translator we found made the same mistake just because you don't want to accept that by today's standards God is a douche.

Just like the second option is more obvious to you, a random shitposter or /co/, the first one was obvious to the scholars of the past.

>>93640103

PROTIP: Nothing in the Bible happened, it was history's earliest school shooter notebook. Literally no historical record ever describes Egypt suffering the sort of losses the three plagues would have instilled but many do describe the Israelites being kicked out of Egypt for fucking with early currency systems.

>>93640192
Nice try reprobate. GO READ THE FUCKING BOOK

>>93643172
Dude, it pretty fucking blatant that the hebrew word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה has different meanings and its POSSIBLE people have been fucking it up because its an easy mistake to make. Again,. use your head, its a direct contradiction to other passages in the same fucking chapter, it isn't even used the same way in the other chapters.

>>93642698
Slavery was ok, considering the time period. Even more so during Christianity, as the church saw it's citizen slaves/servants of God. Holyfying matrimony meant you had to marry the slave you slept with. The murder of slave was no different from the murder of freeman. Slavery was mostly a punishment, which made it in the eyes of god ok. Better option to dungeon, mutilation, death or exile. And some free-spirits used it as adoption.

>>93643206
How could they manipulate currency if they were slaves?

>>93643064
https://youtu.be/-tVTEyuCKn4

>>93643243

Because they weren't exclusively slaves, savannah darkies were.

Religion is wack

>>93643206
Why do isrealis have ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics in their temples if they were never in Egypt? Why are there pharaohs chariots with dating that would be accurate to the time period in the story in the red sea? Come on man. At least learn a little bit about history before spouting nonsense.

You can say that the magical elements of it arent real, whatever, but these stories have a fucking origin man and they are true to historic findings.

>>93640192

>Everyone shits on the bible and christianity
>It's actually the most progressive religion and the only one that says to treat your enemies like your neighbors first before resorting to conflict.

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>>93643293
forgot my pic
I realized you acknowledge the jews being in Egypt in your spoiler anyways so whatever.

>>93643293
>Why do isrealis have ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics in their temples if they were never in Egypt?

They were in Egypt, but they didn't convince a powerful sky wizard to destroy Egypt with his magic powers. Most Israelites weren't even slaves.

>>93643206
What? No.
There actually was a wave of natural disasters and subsequent refugee/pirate crisis that fucked pretty much every bronze age civilization around the Mediterranean to death that coincides with the probable time period of Exodus.

And the Hiboru/Heboru, who became the Israelites, had nothing to do with currency, they were a Canaanite caste or ethnic sub-group of mercenaries working in Egypt who fucked off and set up their own state north of the Sinai desert when civilization in general started falling apart, ~1200 BC give or take.

>>93639928
Read the story again. God literally makes him change his mind multiple times, as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.

God is the only villain in the story.

>>93643323
The flood stretches across more than iblical culture, Jesus stretches across cultures and even has documentation proving he was real. Again, i don't care if you believe in the magical side of it, but to say the bible never happened is objectively false.

>>93643222
of course it's possible but extremely unlikely that every single one made the same mistake independently over god knows how many centuries

>>93641282

Technically yes. Pretty much god is the only true lord and other gods are scam artists. He's not saying that other gods aren't real but that they are not as powerful, good or great as he is.

>>93643348
>The flood stretches across more than iblical culture, Jesus stretches across cultures and even has documentation proving he was real.

[citation really fucking needed]

>>93639850
He's Middle Eastern.

>>93643333
No he didn't, the pharaoh was acting on his free will the vast majority of time. After each plague HE hardened his heart more, not God.
The pharaoh was never CLOSE to letting the jews go before God wreaked havoc. Citation fucking needed on your quote here
> God literally makes him change his mind multiple times, as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.
>as he would have otherwise let Moses & co. go.

God used him, but the pharaoh was already a sinner and would have done this anyways, hence why he was used in the first place by God.

>>93641282
>>93643370

Yeah, Egyptian gods are just as real as YHWH. He just establishes that they're OTHER peoples gods, and the people of Israel are only allowed to worship Him.

>>93643391

really? the flood was mentioned in greek mythology

>>93642878
so you know how God thinks and acts?
look I understand having faith as an anchor or touchstone with what you consider truth and virtuos but I hate when religious people claim that their personal spiritual experience makes perfect rational sense for everyone.

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>>93639850
Why is he the villain?

>>93642577

Actually you are wrong. A big problem with the language is that since it is always evolving and there are so many that even slight changes can complete change the meaning. This is why muslims only teach using Quarns that are in Arbic as to avoid confusing in translating.

>>93642904

Hewbrew's are sketchy in general! hey yoo!

>>93643270
Were south africans ever considered slaves, even to egyptians? The mediterranean slave market was mostly operated by ships, which south africans lacked.

>>93643420

Floods are mentioned in everything from Islander mythos to Chinese mythos to native American mythos because few things are scarier to an ancient human than a big ass amount of water being everywhere for no discernible reason. This is like saying because Thor used lightning and God used lightning, all lightning in every mythos everywhere is evidence of the Bible being real.

>>93643460

Most savannah people (who don't live in South Africa, they never have) were abducted because they resemble humans and work as hard as humans, or at least they do when frequently disciplined. Israelites started as a slave caste but quickly left it, and even among their own kind there were middle-class Israelites and slave Israelites.

>>93643095
>Biblical stories
>/his/
Know how I know you're American?

>>93643436

Because he though that because acting like a preteen girl and got angry when god told him to shut the fuck up and stop being such a brown noser.

>>93643446
> Actually you are wrong
Actually, I am not. Mistakes in translations will happen, but the same mistake but dozens of men won't independently make the same mistake over the centuries

>>93643391
Josephus (37-101AD)
Celsus (175AD)
Lucian of Samosata: (115-200 A.D.)
Suetonius (69-140AD)
Pliny the Younger (61-113AD)
Phlegon (80-140AD)
Mara Bar-Serapion (70AD)
Tacitus (56-120AD)
Thallus (52AD)
all mention Jesus and the chirstian, never referring to him as a fictional person.

>>93643532
You are. The same mistakes can be made numerous time. Though shall not kill was the known commandment forever even though it was murder not kill.

It wouldn't be the first time mistranslations have happened and haven't been fixed. The king James bible STILL states thought shall not kill today.

>>93643602
*thou

>>93643573
>gives me names but no actual citations

>>93643629
Yes, names of historians/people who have written a lot of shit. Why don't you go google for once instead of excepting us to spoonfeed you. I gave you a great start and several names to look into and research yourself.

>>93643530
I can't even understand this sentence. No surprise that a Christfag can't master his native tongue.

>life sucks lol
>here, let me kill fucking thousands of people who didn't do anything

>>93643629
>>93643659
You KNOW he's spoiled and wont.

“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?…After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men…The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted.”
(wiseking = Jesus)

“And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place … ” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 33)

“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 59)

>>93643391
>I'm too lazy to even do a simple Google search
>I shall declare myself the winner because it wasn't spoonfed to me

>>93643602
but that's just English where those two particular words may have had a similar meaning which led to confusion. I've given you other translations as well where nothing has changed

>>93643303

>the most progressive religion

That's like being the most gentle executioner, or the most eloquent down-syndrome kid.

>>93643702
>>93643699
>>93643659
>write a paper
>give it to your professor
>the citations page is just names
>"Wow dont be so lazy, just GOOGLE it"

Modern children should be gassed

>>93643742
I agree.

>>93643742
I wasn't asked to write a paper, I was told to give some citations which you cite on papers.

>>93643706
I on;ly care about the original hebrew idiot. I don't care about your Spanish or German or English translations all that matters is the original Hebrew. And the hebrew word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה has different meanings IN HEBREW. So which one of these is it?

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>>93643742
>ask for citations
>receive citations
>NONO I WANTED AN ESSAY. CITATIONS ARENT GOOD ENOUGH BECAUSE THEN ID HAVE TO GOOGLE

>>93643817
>I WANTED AN ESSAY
He didn't say he wanted an essay.

>>93639850
Ignoring the rest of the faith/antifaith wanking going on in the rest of the thread, allow me to posit that he may not be THE villain.

I admit that he is an antagonist, in that he stands as a barrier between what the protagonist wants and the getting of said want, but he is not the greatest nor the most difficult barrier that Moses has to overcome. That would be Moses and the Israelites. Specifically, the lack of faith of Moses and the Israelites. It's the case in the bible and it's the case in the movie(s). This story isn't only about a people migrating away from a host nation. This story is also about a people learning to believe. That is the core theme of the movie. Its so important that they wrote it into the first line of the chorus, just incase someone (hem, OP) was too stupid to get it.

The song doesn't say "There can be miracles when you win a pissing contest with your adult 'brother.'"

>>93643835
Then WHY is he complaining when he received citations?

>>93643851
If you read what he said enough to know he expected citations, why would you pretend he said something he didn't?

>>93643817
>want citations
>receive names

Either way the dumb fuck linked a quote about Athens as proof of Biblical plagues being real because his primordial chimp brain equated Greece to Egypt, despite the Bible's setting taking place long before those two seriously cooperated, and then proceeded to get uppity when someone demanded actual citations. There's no sense arguing with a window licker.

>>93643803
scholars seem to go with the first one

also,
> insults
getting nervous?

>>93642577
The word אַקְשֶׁ֖ה is used ONCE according to your website. So YES,m there is a clear error here. The other word הִקְשָׁה֩ is used for the same word, "harden" but it is a different word used.

>>93643879
Do you not know what a citation is? Those names ARE citations. Go read about them.

>>93643881
see
>>93644084
They are WRONG and its EASILY provable.

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>>93639850
Because Judaism is a giant scam mixed with a giant-ass victim complex.
They believe the entire world owes them everything because of muh oppression.

>>93644176
Judaism was invented 7 years after christ.

>>93639850
Cause he had tons of slaves he refused to give up and went against God's will in promotion of his own false gods?

Why would you think him not the villain?

>>93639850
We

>>93639850
Because jews. Literally.

>>93644104
>Those names ARE citations
>>93644203
>Judaism was invented 7 years after christ

And to think, sometimes I wonder why some people think Americans are stupid.

>>93644261
It was. You're thinking of Yahwehism, which predates Christianity and Judaism. Judaism came AFTER Christianity, that is a fact.

Juda refereed to a specific tribe who worship Yaweh, not a race or religion.

>>93640627
I just thought it was weird you seamlessly segued into talking about history when we are talking about a movie is all.

>>93643881
>he runs away after getting btfo
>>93644084
lel

>>93644393
A movies based on a historical event.

>>93639850

His pride was his downfall.

>>93643213
Forgive me the unnecessary profanity

>>93640438
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." Matthew 4:8
There are also multiple references to "the ends of the earth" and "the four corners of the earth" which you can search for yourself.

I must commend this thread for not having a single picture of a fedora in lieu of an argument. Let's keep it that way.

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>>93644855
here 4 (You)

>>93639850
>black
WE

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The same reason Ramses had a Semitic nose structure and Moses had an Afroasiatic nose structure instead of the other way around.

>>93640046
It doesn't make sense why Yahweh caught on so much. It's like some bullied autistic kid's god. YEAH WELL MY GOD IS SINGULAR AND HE MADE EVERYTHING ADN YOUR GOD CAN'T STOP HIM BECAUSE MY GOD IS ALSO EVERYTHING AND IF YOU WANT A GOOD AFTERLIFE YOU HAVE TO SERVE HIM BY BEING A GIANT NERD PUSSY LIKE ME.

Like everyone would have been like, 'Fuck off nerd lmao go cry to your stupid bush while my God makes all the cats do backflips and impregnates horses.'

>>93640192
>Jesus
>disregarding the commandments
This meme needs to end, especially in an age where people can actually read. Jesus openly supported the Old Testament and was a devout Hebrew supremacists just like all the prophets before him.

>Oh boy, a Prince of Egypt thread! I love this film!
>three people shitflinging exclusively about the scriptures instead of the film

For fuck's sake

Anyways, Ramses is the villain because his pride refuses to allow him to accept his mistakes and learn from them.

Did anyone else find it cool that God and Moses have the same VA?

To everyone that believes this story to be true, why hasn't god left any modern scriptures? He's such a fucking pussy hiding from us

>>93643206
The Egyptian records state that they were kicked out for being unruly, not anything specifically to do with currency. Certainly the basis for the Exodus is historical fact, how it actually went down is not so well determined.

And they Egyptians are hardly going to admit that their gods got shat on by a god of slaves, now are they?

>>93645246
God's voice included all the VAs, just Kilmer's was the most prominent.

>>93639850
Jews are the good guys, goy.

>>93645246
That's what every thread about this movie is like

>>93639934
>In the original, Yahweh and the Egyptian Gods were having a pissing contest and the Egyptian Gods hardened his heart after every plague so he wouldn't yield and they only backed off when they realized that Yahweh could literally kill every last Egyptian to get what he wanted.

Source? Sounds super interesting?

>>93640046

Mfw no harmonious ditheism.

>>93642402
that's some vague syntax. Like to me it sounds like, "hey Moses when we do this thing, its just gonna make his heart more hard, unavoidable." rather than "Moses I know we want the jews free, but I'm gonna make Pharoah's heart harder just to draw this out.

>>93639850
He's not. He's just the antagonist.

>>93645199

By introducing the concept of a gentile being allowed to be part of the faith he was already WAY below the level of Jewish superiority than most of his contemporaries.

The Good Samaritan is the best example of his parables indicating foreigners being more virtuaous than Jewish people.

>>93645246
That scene with the burning bush still gives me chills.

>"WHO MADE MAN'S MOUTH?"

>>93645452
>Like to me it sounds like, "hey Moses when we do this thing, its just gonna make his heart more hard, unavoidable."
To me, that sounds like a very far fetched interpretation.

>>93645436
Only well after Christianity was established as the dominant faith in the region was true monotheism (the existence of one god, as opposed to worshipping one god) encouraged as the interpretation.

You can see evidence of this in Christian scripts as well. When the Ark is taken in battle and brought to a Philistine Temple God battles with their own Idol their and wrecks the Temple so much the Philistines hand the Ark right back.

Earlier copies indicate that God's avatar fought another tribal (and inferior) God in its own holy place and won, which was a big deal. Copies made after the East-West split state the Philistine God was a phoney devil that God gave the smack down to instead. Catholic scripture pushes this a lot more while Orthodox scripture tends to at least off-handedly acknowledge the existence of other powers (merely inferior).

>>93643303
Uh, no. Islam says quite a lot about respecting strangers, Zoroastrianism says not to go to war except in defense, and Buddhism is pretty explicit about people doing evil shit being caught effectively forever in a spiral of living suffering (so don't do that and basically be nice to people).

>>93639850
I don't view him as a villain really in Moses heart he is still his brother I see him as more of an antagonist.

He is a victim of his own doubts. He doubts Moses word and he doubts this God that Moses listens to because he was raised to believe in his gods his whole life.

He doesn't set the slaves free because he doesn't believe int this God Moses speaks of and there fore doubts in God's existence until the untimely death of his son from the third plague.

Then out of anger he really doesn't want to follow Moses because he hates him and his God because he was punished for keeping a tradition that while angered God it was a tradition he was raised to believe was normal since he was born into Egyptian society.

Moses Egyptian brother wasn't really a villain but a victim of circumstance. In the same way that people hate people who are raised in a racist cultural tradition that people who are raised in that cultural tradition can't understand.

It's like having a super racist family member that doesn't know any better and was raised in a backwards society. They don't understand the wrongs of their committed beliefs.

Atheists will never understand

>>93644855
Space elevator

>>93645583
I dunno man, its been years since sunday school, and I barely paid attention then. I read the illustrated kids version of the bible from cover to cover, so that in and of itself is pretty heavilly paraphrased.

Just cutting through the temple language, and interpreting it in a way that makes story sense to me.

The Abrahamic religions are shitty.

The polytheistic religions were also shitty.

The lesson is that humans are fucking dumb.

>>93645944
Ancient Egyptian religion wasn't about sitting down, praying and being as smug as possible, it was about the Egyptian people and the betterment of it.
The gods were flawed and bizarre on purpose so people would relate to them.

>>93645749
>Zoroastrianism says not to go to war except in defense
Zoroaster was a fucking pimp.

Shame what happened to his methodology.

Is it the same guy making the thread every time? The angry one who keeps calling OT God a douche?

>>93639850
Because he was spiritually blind and an asshole.

>>93645185
That is EXACTLY why it caught on. Why would you back a God that isn't ALL POWERFUL?

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>>93645749
>Islam.
>Peaceful.
Hahahahaha!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFo_rR90Tr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObIThAi07Tg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbpAXRfbE-A

>>93640067
no, the poin is that there no Egyptian Gods, the jew GOD, is the ONLY GOD.

that is the point of the entire bible.

>>93646417
You're not gonna believe what the Torah/Bible say about violence, women, and faith. (Hint: it's to use the first thing as liberally as possible on groups that include the second thing to prove that you have the third thing, as per God's whim).

I'm agnostic so I believe in God but have no illusions about almost every religion being stained by man's impure hands.

>>93639850
Because when God tells you to do something and gives you physical signs to show you he's there and will slap your shit if you dont you should probably just say ok.

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>>93646620
And yet, only ONE religion, Islam, is a warmongering death cult that is major spreader and user of religious violence. The Bible has plenty of violence, no shit. It also has plenty of tolerance, like the story of Ruth, or to treat foreigners as your brothers.

I'm also agnostic. But I'm not going to live in a delusional "moral relativist" worldview, while claiming that every is the "same", when it clearly isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

One is clearly worse then the others. Hinduism and Buddhism have violence in them, just as Christianity and Judaism do. Islam is only one founded to be a political ideology and is utterly imperialistic and based on terrorism as per Muhammad.

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>>93646620
>agnostic

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Why is he the villain?

>>93639850

Because he would not let my people go.

Thus sayeth the Lord

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A07tDouATcE

because he does not appreciate Jazz

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>>93646738
>And yet, only ONE religion, Islam, is a warmongering death cult that is major spreader and user of religious violence.
Are you off your rocker?

>>93646771
What do you think agnostic means?

>>93647260
then what other religion is promoting the killing of people by offering virgin children to fuck? the mormons? the mennonites?

>>93647413
None? But that's not what you said. You said a warmongering death cult that is [a/the] major spreader and user of religious violence. Islam has more tankfodder but Christianity has bigger bombs.

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>>93647260
>Posts picture of black guy.
>Doesn't know that Islam created and maintained the African slave trade, and still runs it today.
>Thinks that he's made a point against Christians, who turned dismantled their slave trade centuries ago.
A-are you retarded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0wu7IC_ic

>>93647593
Uh, the guy you just replied to wasn't me, moron. Oh, and the religion he's referring to is Islam, which creates Muslim rape gangs because Kuffar girls are inferior and lower than maggots crawling around in dogshit to Islam.

>>93646487
>That's the point of the entire bible

Only after Christianity got popular enough to enforce it you dingus.

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>>93647593
Are you serious?

The overwhelming majority of terrorist acts committed in the past 10 years have been by Islamic extremists.
The point isn't the scripture, all religions have retarded shit in their holy books, but the problem with Islam is that it's spiritual leaders are still going around thinking it's the 1400s. The religion itself is uncivilized in both writ and execution, and its leaders are making no efforts to modernize it.

How many christian nations have public executions for heresy?
How many secular states torture and behead homosexuals and adulterers?
How many non-Islamic countries prevent women from voting, driving, or dressing like human beings?

Islam is just like any other religion on paper, but in practice it is far and away the most barbaric, BECAUSE of its adherence to its primitive, backwards holy book.


tl:dr
Every holy book is insane like the Quran, but Muslims are barbarians because they act on it.

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>>93646996
He didn't have a choice, the pharisees had complete control and would have definitely lynched him if he didn't give the order.

The literally wanted a murderer released before Jesus. The crowd was ridiculous

>>93647647
Niggers had no problem enslaving other niggers anon.

>>93647647
>t Islam created and maintained the African slave trade,
Objectively false. Islam was around 600 AD, slave trading in africa was dominant LONG before that.

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>>93647936
Yes, but there weren't vast armies of slaves being lead through the Sahara on foot to be sex slaves or cannon fodder. Also, those African tribes that did do it, did it for largely economic incentives, much like the Europeans. Islam did it based on its religious doctrine, which created a far more massive and extreme amount of suffering.

>>93647959
And that changes jackshit, moron. Fact is, Islam created the world's largest, longest lasting, and most barbaric slave trade. It doesn't matter that other groups were into slavery, as their practices of it were far less extreme and evil in comparison, you're only interested in deflection, obfuscation, and moral relativistic horseshit.

>>93647135
Based Satchmo

>>93647784
>How many christian nations have public executions for heresy?
There are no "christian" nations. Thank the U.S. for nipping that shit in the bud.

>>93648075
>created
Thats where you're wrong. They didn't create it, they maintained it.

>>93648075
>, you're only interested in deflection,
No, i was interested in pointing out where you were wrong. Islam didn't create the African slave trade.

>>93647260
>What do you think agnostic means?
It's the philosophical standpoint that it is not possible to know whether or not there there is a god. Someone who holds the opposite position, that it is actually possible to know whether or not there is a god is called a gnostic.

>>93642341
Does it really matter if you was being mind-controlled or not God could have literally teleported all his followers out of egypt.

At the very minimum god was throwing a childish temper tantrum that resulted in the deaths of thousands because pharaoh would not stroke his ego

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>>93648152
Uh, they did create it. They also expanded it. It was a few small tribes doing it before Islam came. Islam created it's own slave trade, and butchered and conquered entire tribes, whereas before it was normally just small groups doing it. They didn't come into an existing market, and try their hand at it. They slaughtered everyone and everything in their way and then established their own market, separate from what had been there before. It was also the perpetrator of the European slave trade in the Mediterranean and the Iberian peninsula.

>>93648279
>Uh, they did create it.
Wrong. African slave trade was dominant long before islam even existed. Come on.
> They also expanded it.
Correct.

>>93648298
>Wrong. African slave trade was dominant long before islam even existed. Come on.
It wasn't the same organization, though. Which is kind of important. It can't be the same slave trade, but a different organization. Islam didn't need African tribes to enslave other Africans for them, unlike the Europeans. Jihadis could just ride their camels and horses in massive armies through the Sahara, butcher entire communities of people, and take the women and children back to Islamabad or Damascus as sex slaves and castrated war fodder.

>>93648279
All you're saying is they came in and took over a previously established trade and made up some more rules to go with it.
That doesn't mean they created the African slave trade.

>>93648377
>It wasn't the same organization, though
Does not matter.
Whether is Tod's oranges or Mussads oranges youre selling fucking oranges.

>>93648377
>Islam didn't need African tribes to enslave other Africans for them
Europeans didn't need to do this either it was just already an established business and niggers were cheap. Why work harder evlsaving tribes when someone else is willing to do it for you?

>>93643303
>What is Buddhism

>>93647647
>trying to blame islam for everything when it was invented in 650~ AD
Dont get me wrong,. its awful, but a lot of their practices were actually form their previous religion that was adopted over. Especially trading and slave rights

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>>93644422
>based on a historical event.

The bible historical
top kek

>>93648687
It is?
It is a peice of old documentation that record the stories of times of old. What more do you want? Greeks talked about magic shit happening in their documents too like God/s speaking to them about a refugee in a temple and a decision being based on this super natural event.

>>93648748
One of the cities named Troy fell due to fire. The Illiad is not a historical document.

>>93648772

1.159.1 When they came to Branchidae, Aristodicus, speaking for all, put this question to the oracle: “Lord, Pactyes the Lydian has come to us a suppliant fleeing a violent death at the hands of the Persians; and they demand him of us, telling the men of Cyme to surrender him. 1.159.2 But we, as much as we fear the Persian power, have not dared give up this suppliant of ours until it is clearly made known to us by you whether we are to do this or not.” Thus Aristodicus inquired; and the god again gave the same answer, that Pactyes should be surrendered to the Persians. 1.159.3 With that Aristodicus did as he had already decided; he went around the temple, and took away the sparrows and all the families of nesting birds that were in it. But while he was doing so, a voice (they say) came out of the inner shrine calling to Aristodicus, and saying, “Vilest of men, how dare you do this? Will you rob my temple of those that take refuge with me?” 1.159.4 Then Aristodicus had his answer ready: “Lord,” he said, “will you save your own suppliants, yet tell the men of Cyme to deliver up theirs?” But the god replied, “Yes, I do command them, so that you may perish all the sooner for your impiety, and never again come to inquire of my oracle about giving up those that seek refuge with you.”

Herodotus is not a fan fiction piece, he is an ancient historian.

>>93640067
In the jewble there is only Yahweh and no one else there was never any Egyptiab gods or biblical god either.

>>93648871
Not true. In Genesis Gods walked the earth and bred with man.

God says not to have any Gods before him. By his own admission, other Gods are real. They are just not the Lord of Lords.

>>93639850
Jews

>>93648845
And most of the Bible is much closer to the Illiad than Herodotus (and often takes pains to say how he is merely conveying an interesting story he heard). Something like Paul's latter's would be a closer comparison.

>>93649087
The Iliad is actually real, but exaggerated, history.
The bible tells sptories before and after the great flood, and a great flood undoubtably happened theres too much evidence for it even in Herodotus he mentions sea salt and seashells(not fossils, its obvious when a shell is a fucking fossil) in the mountains.

And conveying an interesting story you heard is LITERALLY what history is.

>>93649087
That isn't the first strange thing he wrote about.
http://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/arion/
Do i believe a man rode a dolphin around? Yes. Yes I do if it was important enough to be written down in the first place.

>>93649314
>Do i believe a man rode a dolphin around?
That's not exactly sound. We have stories, verifiable stories, of men being rescued by dolphins in the current age. The notion that it may have also happened in the back-when doesn't necessarily give credence to EVERY story published in those times.

Would you still believe the tale if nothing like it had ever happened since then?

>>93649360
Are you going to deny everything from Histories, now?

>>93649360
Also people being able to predict shit like an eclipse without having and tools to predict it.

Afterwards, on the refusal of Alyattes to give up his suppliants when Cyaxares sent to demand them of him, war broke out between the Lydians and the Medes, and continued for five years, with various success. In the course of it the Medes gained many victories over the Lydians, and the Lydians also gained many victories over the Medes. Among their other battles there was one night engagement. As, however, the balance had not inclined in favour of either nation, another combat took place in the sixth year, in the course of which, just as the battle was growing warm, day was on a sudden changed into night. This event had been foretold by Thales, the Milesian, who forewarned the Ionians of it, fixing for it the very year in which it actually took place. The Medes and Lydians, when they observed the change, ceased fighting, and were alike anxious to have terms of peace agreed on.

>>93639850
>>93639862
>>93639886
The whole story is a metaphor to teach people a lesson. The lesson in this story is that people are responsible for the decisions of their leaders.

Moses publicly demanded that the Pharaoh do the right thing and let his people go, the Pharaoh publicly said no. Then the plagues happened one after another in a very public way that affected all of egypt. The egyptian people did NOTHING and stood behind their leader because they didn't care about the choices he made and didn't care that their way of life was enslaving a race of people to build their cities.

They kept ignoring very obvious signs of escalation that was impacting their lives and not just the Pharaoh's... then the final plague happened and killed all their first born because God doesn't care about the "Just following orders" line and doesn't care if you thought following someone else's orders absolved you of guilt.

>>93639850
Well according to the Bible, God has a problem with foreskin. It goes downhill from there.

>>93639850
Enforcing slavery and particularly cruel slavery at that
It was justifiable in that he literally didn't know better but once he was made to understand the situation he should have started thinking and making steps towards fixing things. But even when it became clear that a very real supernatural entity was pissed at him he stuck to his pride and actually got worse.
He's not the villain until his verse of The Plagues

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>>93649464
>it's aaaaall a metaphor bro
>hit this weed

>>93648918
Angels not gods retard.

>>93649491
Just because it may or may not happen doesn't mean that it can't be used as a metaphor.

OP and others aren't talking about whether or not it all actually happened, just asking why the Pharaoh was a villain when it says "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart".

God did it to teach people that they are responsible for the decisions of who they choose to follow.

>>93647784

You can't get a response with a thorough post like that, brah.

But you're dead on. Apologists and the ignorant harp on about the violence and misogyny present in the religious texts of other books. Okay, so what? Who gives a shit about theological nuance and "but other religion says" when the issue is the contemporary barbarism rampant in every majority or significant minority Muslim states?

The western republics and democracies are NOT Christian nations on a governmental level, and that is the entite fucking point. Secular Western states, the most stable and prosperous nations in human history, evolved out of a Christian continent over centuries and centuries of internecine strife and bloodshed and reform. The key word being REFORM, something the Islamic world has not been able to do, admittedly in part due to Western meddling over the last century that continuously collapses secular/sectarian states (Libya, Iraq, Syria.)

The Middle East NEEDS its feudalistic strong men to provide the stability necessary to evolve freer, more efficient government that combats the theology. Just like feudal kings and dukes and emperors vied with popes and archbishops. I feel like its the nature of Abrahamoc monotheism.

But, I don't want to bring the barbarians living in these ass backwards hellholes into my secular western republic, no more than I would want to open a portal to 11th century Europe and bring in fanatic crusaders. Because that's where the average theocrat indoctrinated Islamic dirt farmer is in their philisophical development. Maybe Islam will reform, but the onus is not on ME or my loved ones to suffer for some future five hundred years distant.

>>93649549
>Pharaoh was a villain when it says "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart".
A hardened heart isn't puppeteered. He rejected God; God rejected him. That's how it works. He is always in control of his actions, so his heart was hardened by God. It's simple, and fags go through the same thing. They reject God. So God makes them into animals who seem like they're not in control.

Reprobate

>>93649549
It was actually discussed the translation is likely flawed as pointed out in
>>93644084

>>93648918
The fuck translation are you reading? You're talking about angels falling because they've found human women attractive right?

But yes, I think it was don't put other gods before me. Which if you're working with retarded asshole followers who will make an idol at the drop of a hat, may just mean that he's wording it softly. Or it could mean that he's the boss. I don't know and I'm worshiping Jesus and that God. I won't say others don't exist. I know fuckall about the afterlife it exists.

>>93640072
There were some ancient Christian churches that believed YHWH was a false god and rejected the whole OT. Proto-Orthodox Christianity b& the shit out of them.

>>93648470

>See Cambodia

>>93642878
>He tends not to fuck with it because he wants an organic experience of your character in order to judge it.

Why? He already knows everything. He's known the quality of every character to ever exist since the start of creation.

>>93649683
My bad, i mistook Giants for Gods.

I've always read that line as Gods breeding with women, but it's actually Sons of God which created Nephilim

>There we saw the Nephilim (the Anakites come from the Nephilim); and to ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.”

>>93649806
Its not for him, its for YOU.

>>93649826
Then he is malevolent.

>>93649870
Why?
Its perfect justice. You deserve to suffer.

>>93649826
>Created to die in sin and suffer unending torment

Thanks, God.

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>>93649964
see
>>93649902
Perfect. Justice.

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>>93649964
Shouldn't have ate that apple bruh

>>93649464
>god doesn't care about the just following orders line
>god expects you to directly endanger yourself and your family when faced with a tyrant
What a load of bull honkey that'd be.

That's like people who try to argue that anyone that served in the wermacht should be held directly accountable for the holocaust like the alternative of displacing your family, going AWOL, and letting go of basically everything you own during wartime is such an easy thing to do. Inaction may be an action all its own, but it's also a very understandable action for the everyman when there's no guarantee that it'll pay off for you or that anyone will care if you fail.

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>>93650049
>Most humans (at least in the west) agree that torture is an inhumane punishment at this point
>The entire concept of the Christian afterlife is that you better be a good dude or you'll be tortured for a time literally beyond human comprehension, and god doesn't put a stop to this

A few of the religious people I know just choose to believe that there's no hell, I guess.

>>93642321
>sin is a choice
>everyone is born into sin

nice religion, christfags

>>93650222
Humans have imperfect morals friend.

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>>93650240
>be born into sin
>keep sinning
To hell you go.

>>93649181
>shells on mountains
Plate tectonics. And we would be able to see evidence for a global flood from sedimentology. Such a huge event would be impossible to miss.
>And conveying an interesting story you heard is LITERALLY what history is.
No, that's storytelling (which is not to disparage Herodotus, he was exploring new ground.) In history, "interesting" is less important than "accurate."

>>93649314
Something more along the lines of the giant golden ants. When we read that, we assume that he was retelling a story he heard, or was metaphor poorly understood, not that there were literal giant golden ants. For example, some believe he may have been hearing of a type of yellow gopher, who do move earth the way ants do. Without corroborating evidence (in this case biological evidence ) we do not take the fantastical at face value.

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>>93650333
>Humans have decided on their own that torturing someone no matter how evil or flawed they are is abhorrent and excessive when it's not that complicated to humanely imprison (or when if it comes down to it, quickly and painlessly kill) them

>God is chill with literally eternal, endless, unimaginable torture with no way out for anyone deemed unworthy of heaven

>This is okay because God has objectively better morals because he's god

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>>93643206

>>93650450
>God is chill with literally eternal, endless, unimaginable torture with no way out
Read the bible instead of taking notes from the renaissance era?

>>93650240
>not knowing that Christ's entire sacrifice was to absolve original sin so that people could live and decide their fates with their actions and not the karmic tax left over from their grandfather

I prefer the Hebrew idea of original sin more than the Christian version, for what it's worth. Original Sin is just the idea that humans are more inclined towards the physical pleasures than spiritual enlightenment (I'd go to church but I'm too busy eating/shopping/too important/etc). So while it wasn't a curse it was still a temptation that needed discipline and experience to overcome.

>>93648470
Curious question but what do muslims have against Buddhists

>>93650523
Christian here. Physical pleasure is awesome and I hope it's part of the rewards of heaven. Just saying.

>>93650513
Revelation is quite clear about eternal torture for Satan and The Beast, and with extreme apologetics you can argue that after being tortured in life the sinful are "merely" destroyed forever. Jesus preached about it fairly often. Dante did not invent hell.

>>93650523
Mark 16:16
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.

>>93650591
Same thing they have against everyone who isn't Muslim, preferably interbreeding with their own clan. They're literally stuck around the campfire. Everything outside is scary, bad, and evil; or should be taxed.

>>93650361
I had no choice to be born, tho. It's automatically thrust upon me without my knowledge at birth.

>>93650523
That's all fine and dandy, except in christianity the consequence is eternal torment and the vast majority of people who have ever lived will go to hell.

>>93650637
But you do get to choose anon. You are able to choose now and here on out.

>>93650513
I'll admit that I don't really know everything about most religions because I don't have much interest, but from what I know the concept of hell is that you cannot escape and you will be tortured for all eternity. I'm not sure but I don't think I'm off here considering I can find plenty of debate about the problem with an omnipotent god allowing hell to exist.

Of course there's also the whole 'god allows evil' thing, but that's a completely different metaphysical can of worms.

>>93650601
Wait wait wait, I thought only 4 human names were to be erased from the book of life? I could be wrong.

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>>93650595
>physical pleasure
You mean masturbaiting right. I've been trying to stop doing thatthe mlp anthro and furry anthro ones are fucking messing with me too much. I need help. I'm also concerned about talking to a priest or minister about this.

>>93650674
Its not a can of worms at all. Can you make a beautiful painting without tainting the pure white page with ink?

>>93650684
>Father, why did the Lord make Fluttershy the most lewd one when she's shy, and vice versa with Applejack?

>>93650700
A painting doesn't have feelings. A painting can't suffer.

>>93650729
>ruining your greentext like that

>>93650663
Do I really? An all powerful, all knowing creator would already know my decision before I make it. He would already know where I end up before I was even born.

What about the billions of people who died before christ was born or before christianity was widespread. Why didn't they get a choice?

>>93650679
I have never heard of this 4 number. To get removed from the eternal reward, all you need do is remove something from the Bible, according to Revelation. But the idea that Dante and Milton invented Hell/eternal torture is as much a meme as the opposite.

>>93650780
Well, he hates people like you. So maybe you don't have free will. :^)

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>>93650729
Why make humanized Luna and Fluttershy have big tits and nice asses. Should I really tell a priest about my problems if they're like this

>>93650780
>What about the billions of people who died before christ was born or before christianity was widespread. Why didn't they get a choice?
You know they didn't?

>>93650773
If it was meant to be green God would've made it green.

>>93650814
Jesus outright states in the bible that he is the only way to salvation. Kind of a bad break for all those people huh?

>>93650854
Before jesus, only the tribe of juda was getting in. Everyone else went to hell anon.

>>93640578
I've always interpreted that as God realizing his keikaku would inevitably alienate the Pharaoh into doubling down on his pride like a retard, but he just didn't care and went ahead with it anyways since he still figured it was still his best option to free his chosen people without compromising his dramatic flare.

>>93650870
The judeans. not only the tribe of juda.

>>93650870
Boy, that sure is an evil thing to do to a bunch of people who literally don't know what they're doing wrong.

God's like, an anime villain.

>>93650911
man ate fruit from the tree of knowledge and knew Good from Evil. No mother would give a child poison if he asks for milk. Everyone knows God. They deny Him willingly.

>>93650873
Except Pharaoh is explicitly on the verge of letting them go multiple times, until God hardens his heart, and the New Testament's justification for the event is that of course God is allowed to control people because he made them.

The "God does not interfere with free will" thing is an invention of very late theology, and when bolted onto actual ancient texts of course it doesn't fit.

>>93650870
>everyone else went to hell
Exactly my point. Christfags like to claim sin is a choice but nobody chose to be born into sin and none of those people got a chance at salvation, so they burn for eternity through no fault of their own.

>>93650929
Maybe it would have been better for Adam to castrate himself instead of damning billions to eternal suffering. Too late now, I guess.

>>93640665
But that's not what the Bible says. Why are you denying God's word son?

>>93650940
The reason God did it is because he wanted to show off his cool powers and become famous and well-known

>>93650940
They ALWAYS reject God first. NEVER the other way around.

You are a liar and a deceiver.

>>93650929
Every isolated, scattered group of humans on the planet knew the christian god somehow, but they denied him willingly, so they deserve eternal torture!

Come on.

I thought people were talking about Zeus or whatever whenever god was discussed because I was a little kid and didn't give a shit no matter how many services I went to until I was like 8.

>>93650975
>God is literally operating on the same level of logic is that guy that shot John Lennon

>>93651001
Yes, they all had a polytheism instead of a monotheism. They knew damn well what gods were, they rejected an almighty one in their hearts.

And again, if you know good and evil, you know God by default.

>>93650975
Of course, and the text supports that. Because in terms of the morality of the intended audience, it makes perfect sense. But thousands of years later, you need very elaborate apologetics to make it work.

>>93651030
>Being a good person is synonymous with being religious

I'm triggered.

>>93650947
>through no fault of their own
They reject God.

>>93651042
Do you also have pink hair and diabetes?

>>93651030
This is true, even stones and trees know that there is only one God and Muhammad (PBUH) is His prophet. You really are without excuse.

>>93643303
>What is sikhism

>>93651075
Actually I'm a white male of proud german ancestry, but close.

>>93651042
When you follow your morality, especially people of old, you come to the conclusion it comes from God.

>>93651084
Except Muslims reject Jesus as the son of God and thus have fucked themselves over by default.

>>93651113
But God has no son, how could God have a son? That's polytheism.

>>93646487
Actually gets interesting when you study ancient Semitic religions and can watch him devour/marry the gods/goddesses. The Hebrew accounts are actually less interesting.

>>93651130
Its not, God and Jesus are one.

>>93651113
>When you follow your morality, especially people of old, you come to the conclusion that it comes from god

I actually have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>93651048
Citation? Does God make himself known to every single person on the planet? How can they reject someone they don't even know exists? Even if that were true, if not rejecting god was all you needed to not go to hell, then why did Jesus feel the need to sacrifice himself?

>>93651145
This will never stop being funny.

>>/his/

>>93648110
>What is Armenia

>>93651153
He means to say that if God didn't exist we'd all be raping babies because deep down that's all we want, or so he thinks because belief in God's judgement is the only thing preventing him from doing so.

>>93651159
>Does God make himself known to every single person on the planet?
obviously. Nothing is more obvious. That's why you use the word.

Eternity exists, infinite exists, omnipresence exists.
The isrealis lived in a circular tent for 300 year(tabernacle) because the circle represents eternity.

>>93651105
Sikhs are strange critters. I respect their overall theology. Still a Christian though.

>>93651163
>mythology thread

>>93639850
Because he's not Jewish.

>>93651201
Obvious respect for whatever religion you choose, but sikhism (going off of purely theology and the guru granth sahib) is probably one of the most progressive faiths.

>>93651207
>/his/ isn't a place for mythology

/co/ and /his/ are the only boards I use these days. We argue all the time but it's comfy in a way.

>>93643436
Because God hates knowledge and snakes.

>>93651187
>obviously
More like goalpost-moving assumptions from a mad christcuck who cant justify his religion's backwards logic

>>93651265
>knows the word God
Its over for you.

>>93651265
>>93651265
The goal posts werent moved you just ran straight past them. Touchdown.

>>93639850
Why didn't gods like amon or ra help them?

>>93641033
no, the whole point of jesus is that god KNEW it was impossible to match the lofty goals he set for humanity because he HATES SIN

Jesus made a pact with god that his death would make up for any imperfections in humanity.

Another question. How do you justify god tormenting people who don't accept him because he made humans? Is it some broad exception to our usual ideas of morality? We don't allow parents to abuse children, but god's god so he gets a free pass?

That doesn't sound healthy to me at all.

>>93651187
Then what's the point of missionaries and evangelicalism?

>>93651287
Isn't that exactly what you're doing? You're making assumptions on God's behalf that he gives everyone a fair shot regardless if they've heard of Christ or not, regardless of what the bible says. Why do you get to put words in God's mouth and I don't?

>>93651364
A child who rejects his father should be stoned to death. That's a part of our society we have lost to deception.

>>93651364
cognitive dissonance

>>93651365
They are helping lost sheep anon.

>>93651364
>We don't allow parents to abuse children
He who spares the rod hates his child. Abusing your children is God's will and not beating them is evil, what the fuck is wrong with you you Satanic wimp?

>>93651394
There is none. They deserve death.

>>93651424
Are you aroused?

>>93651511
Are you scared?

>>93651411
Exactly. God is punishing his children, you are expected to punish yours as well.

>>93651253
And /lit/ was so useless last time I was there. It was /fa/ with books.

Sikhism is purposeful, but in several ways outdated. The core values are beautiful.

>>93651569
I have nothing to fear, my land is protected by traditional charms and a house elf.

>>93651588
I reiterate, god is an anime villain.

>>93651595
No, you're just a pussy.

>>93651595
Does that mean to defeat God we need
A) The Power of Friendship
B) Talk no Jutsu
or
C) Iron chariots as a power-up

>>93651364
God sorta makes the passes, so yeah he gets all the free passes.
In fact he's the pass as well.

>>93651614
Giant robot.

>>93651614
"Iron Chariots" is the real code-name of the Eva Initiative.

>>93651649
That would be C) then.
>>93651657
Mind = blown.

>>93651618
So if god just now took back all happiness from the world, cloned himself into millions of spiky-dicked maniacs and started butt-devastating everyone on the planet, it'd be morally okay because he made it in the first place?

>>93651696
Yes. And it would be our moral obligation to call Him daddy while He fucked us.

>>93651696
Look at your ridiculous post and reevaluate your life son.

>>93651696
Yeah kinda

>>93651740
Man that's the logical conclusion for the justification that morality doesn't apply to god because he's god and he made everything.

>>93651589
>but in several ways outdated

How so? The teetotaler aspects or the vegetarian aspects?

>>93650684
Go home Tim, the dildos aren't going to polish themselves.

>>93651943
?

You guys ever notice the JIDF say disgusting shit just to be shocking?

>>93651811
anon how do you feel about programmers and artist who allow or inflict pain and suffering to their creations?

>>93652167
are we all fictional characters?
we're approaching jaden smith territory

>>93652167
Its the only way we have anything interesting made. Could you imagine anime or stories without tragedy?

>>93652167
A drawing can't feel, a fictional character can't feel

AI isn't at the point where it can actually be considered intelligent

>>93652167
A good story will have suffering in it to contrast the happiness.

>>93652250
Slice of life/Iyashikei/Comedy is shit and you know it.

>>93652253
To an almighty god that can create and destroy us on a whim we might as well be the same as the NPC's in a Simcity game.

>>93650222
Well, Judaism for one doesn't believe in Hell. They believe unclean souls go to this giant washing machine called Gehenna before going to heaven (kind of like the Catholic concept of Purgatory). Irredeemable souls are simply destroyed and cease to exist.

The place of eternal fire and torture is something xtians pulled out of their asses, or ripped off from other religions.

>>93652339
Because they don't have tragedy they have melodrama

TTGL is more of the scope I'm talking about. You know, the good stuff.

>>93640990
Exodia

>>93652339
No it'd be wrong to slaughter anything intelligent enough to seek higher meaning in its existence

sims can't do that, just going "well in comparison to something as powerful and all-knowing as god it's a similar power gap" doesn't mean anything

>>93652395
>No it'd be wrong to slaughter anything intelligent
wrong. If it blasphemes it must be killed.

>>93652395
>it'd be wrong to slaughter anything intelligent enough to seek higher meaning in its existence
Why?
Says who?

>>93652443
Nobody has to be the authority and say it, it's more like an agreement.

We're all in the same shoes. We all know that nobody wants to die. We know what there is to lose. It's just wrong by all human moral standards.

If it's not evil to god, then at the very least- it's evil to us, and leaves us no room to revere him save for fear and servitude.

>>93652479
Well I don't agree bitch.

>>93645386
>Certainly the basis for the Exodus is historical fact

outside of the Bible’s stories, there is no record anywhere in history of this enslavement. No archaeological evidence was ever found.

Thousands of people wandering through the desert for 40 years? You’re gonna leave something behind. They didn't because it never happened.

The Egyptians left no record of it and the fact
that not a single artifact has been found that could be definitely linked to the biblical Exodus. If the parting sea, the burning bush, the plagues, etc. did happen, they appear to have left no traces.

There is NO way to confirm even, that the Israelites WERE slaves in Egypt. There is only one source for the story of enslavement or the Exodus: The Bible.
For many scholars, the silence of the Egyptians sources is telling. I personally would want two or three separate sources before I will believe what any ONE source says. And frankly, there is NO Egyptian written texts saying anything about the Exodus.

Some argue that the Egyptians simply would not record such an epic embarrassment. The Egyptians were meticulous bureaucrats and DID keep unflattering paperwork (papyrus scrolls).

There are Egyptian documents of many bad things happening in Egypt at the time, civil war, unrest, of foreign incursion, of people coming in and taking over Egypt. And yet you have NO evidence for this massive upheaval of the Pharaoh and the destruction of his entire army. You WOULD expect to find it! Looking at the Exodus through the lens of science, we know only a few hard facts.

The archaeological and historical records remain resolutely silent about these epic events. the only plausible reasons to not finding any evidence to the Exodus is that:

1. it did not happen the way the Bible says it did
OR,
2. it did not happen at all.

Unfortunately, The power of the Exodus story relies more of faith than on any scientific or historical evidence.

>>93652479
>an agreement
Really now, because there is an awful lot of people killing and dying out there.

>We all know that nobody wants to die
Debatable

>It's just wrong by all human moral standards
That's just straight up dumb.
What constitutes "evil" fluctuates heavily between cultures, you are trying to force the entirety of humanity to adhere to what you think is evil. And you aren't even explaining why it is evil in the first place.

>>93652495
Then that's your choice, all we can do is make choices.

>>93652524
>Thousands of people wandering through the desert for 40 years? You’re gonna leave something behind.
Your deception has already had the curtain pulled from it here

>>93643319

>>93652585
your choice ends in death by stone

>>93639850
>Thread poorly veiled bait
>Still up

>>93642402
That's the wrong context you retard
he doesn't harden his heart by force, but moses' presence along with this different god he's not used to will make pharoah harden his heart

>>93652618
All choices eventually end in death, sometimes we just get to make more before it.

>>93645997
so Egyptian pantheon is spider-man/batman?