What happens if Generations and Legacy don't save Marvel?

I'm hoping they clean house when it comes to editorial.

Or beat DC in the race to become a reprint farm.

Comic Shops NEED Marvel and DC, both of them, to stay afloat. If Marvel goes down they take DC and indie comics with them. Since the comics are just a story farm for films they may be crashing the plane with no survivors on purpose.

We'll be treated to another couple years of flailing before they finally have to get off their asses and fix things.

>>93626957
Are you shit posting? You do realize DC, nor Marvel, are in any need of 'saving' when it comes to finances right? Please do not be this fucking dense and ignorant.

>>93626957
>Occupy Avengers is still around
Holy fuck. How?

>>93626957
They're owned by the Mouse. They'll be fine.

>>93626957
They aren't suppose to.

Marvel has admitted the REAL relaunch/shake-up is happening in 2018. (Just in time for Infinity War).

Legacy and Generations is just a last minute thing they pulled out of their arse to try and tide things over.

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>>93627110
As long as my kids don't suffer this dark age

>>93626957

>I get all my financial news from twitter!

Mmm, your president must be very proud of you.

>>93627422
I love how even Marvel gave up on Legacy

>>93627542

It's anecdotal, but it's an actual comic store giving you the numbers they're seeing.

What's wrong with that?

>>93627024
They need to clean house by removing Alonso and every editor that makes Bendis comfortable.

But no major change will happen until Ike kicks it or is forcibly removed from his CEO position.

>>93626957
Okay so I understand that Marvel's sales are sinking, I get that they are in trouble, but why is this shop the one everyone screenshots for proof? Is this like a big franchise shop sort of like Midtown? I'm just curious cause it seems like what is popular in one shop will not be popular at another. I'm not saying the sale numbers for Nick Fury don't back up the shops claims, but I can tell you the sales in my local shop for books like Fury are actually pretty high

>>93629096
They're one of the biggest European retailers I believe

>>93627164
I think he's referring to Marvel continually drawing the ire of comic book stores and how they're blatantly ignoring the warnings that they've given them. Basically, OP probably means that "Oh great, they're just going to keep pissing THEM off, too, now, huh?"

>>93626957
They're not worth saving

>>93626957
I know Marvel is shit but this idiot is also everything that's wrong with comics.

Marvel is stupid for putting out the books they put mainly for the way they do it (Tumblr tier writers, no planning whatsoever, absolute shit artists, no editors). BUT, I can't oppose to their ideas of giving a chance to every character they have no matter how obscure. If it was up to idiots like this one, I'm sure the line would look something like 15 Peter Parker books, 20 X-Men books (of course, all members will be from the movies or 90s animated series, main characters only), 10 Avengers books with the big four all, and 5 Logan books. Also, 5 Deadpool ones as a bonus.

>>93629096
>but why is this shop the one everyone screenshots for proof?

They're just one of the shops that people screenshot. And a lot of times, other retailers respond to their tweets and they either have different sales than them, or echo them.

The reason is that if one store says something doesn't sell but the others don't have that problem, then that store is an outlier. But if one store says something doesn't sell and 9 other stores are saying the same thing, then there is a possible problem.

Between Big Bang, Ryan Higgins, there's like at least three or more other retailers who respond to their tweets. None of which I think talk to Rich each week on Bleeding Cool. And on a good day for the Bleeding Cool Bestseller list, there's about 12 different retailers that report back to Rich about their sales; one person has two stores which sell to different customer bases. another person has a chain of 11 stores. So that's like 24 different stores.

Combine the tweets and the BC list and that makes maybe 30+ stores reporting in. If most of those stores are saying Marvel is not doing well, then chances are Marvel isn't.

>>93629196
Well I admit to being a assumptive faggot OP. Apologies.

Nothing is going to change with Marvel. They make money and could care less about what the fans think, same with DC. The only time they give a damn is when their is serious backlash, as there was with mutants and the mist. Hopefully more people will speak out, but I doubt it at this point in time.

>>93630282
Where the hell are you getting your imaginary strawman from? I've never seen them say they actually want any of those the way you claim.

>>93627422
>Marvel has admitted the REAL relaunch/shake-up is happening in 2018. (Just in time for Infinity War).
You got a source for that?

>>93626957
If both fail, then there is the tried true method of copy DC. DC brought Watchmen into continuity with success, then Marvel can go BIGGER with STAR WARS and BIGGER SUCCESS!
Already saw them copy Rebirth with nostalgia appeal and legacy numbering. Only 2 more failures until it becomes highly likely.

>>93630282
>BUT, I can't oppose to their ideas of giving a chance to every character they have no matter how obscure.
He's pointing out what doesn't sell. And the Nick Fury book which he's talking about isn't even about Nick Fury, it features the "diversity agenda legacy synergy replacement". As in, half of what everyone's been complaining about recent Marvel. Even real Nick Fury would have trouble keeping an ongoing afloat.

>>93627064
Marvelfags say that but its ALWAYS Marvel that tries to collapse the industry by self-destructing. Marvel just needs to die.

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How much longer can all this possibly go on for? I realize that with Disney's backing Marvel has no money worries anymore but is it really worth it to Disney to keep things the way they are? Would it not be better for them in the long run to clean house and get some people who know what they're doing to run the non-film divisions of Marvel? The bad publicity for shit like their terrible comics, the mistreatment of the X-Men/F4, the whole MvCI fiasco and the cartoons being bland as hell has to be troubling at the very least for their overall image if not monetarily.

>>93634549
Disney probably knows. And going by what Bleeding Cool says it seems like Marvel Studios might regularly let them know of the negative publicity Marvel Entertainment gets.

>>93630550
Disney won't let them taint Star Wars with marvel. They've got a whole team dedicated to keeping the new continuity tight. The comics division doesn't make enough money to risk ruining the start wars continuity just to help them out.

>>93626957
SECRET EMPIRE: SALES UNDERGROUND

NICK APATHY

why can't they just sell manga instead

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>>93629096
That Nick Fury series is some good stuff. Actual done-in-one stories, the 1960s Bond vibe, the gadgets, the Steranko homage layouts. I wish it starred the original Fury, but oh well, I'll take what I can get. It's the only Marvel title I'm currently buying. Not sure what I'll do once they inevitably cancel it at #6.

>>93627422
>the REAL relaunch/shake-up is happening in 2018

geez another one?

>>93633381
The solution is to use an anthology format to try new strips/characters next to established ones.

I don't mean two in one, I mean separate secondary strips within one comic.

>>93627164
Overall comic sales are worse now than they were during the 90's crash.

Not saying it's the end, but it's definitely a sign that something needs to change or else the comics industry will die.

>>93627422

That's their big plan to save themselves? Another relaunch? Even though sales have decreased with every subsequent launch?

>>93626957
Worst case scenario is Disney shuts down Marvel comics and makes Marvel exclusively a film and merchandise franchise.

>>93634754
And nothing of value would be lost

>>93634736
It's the only thing keeping the comics division afloat. Their trade sales are so horrible Amazon cut the prices on digital trades and marvel has had to liquidate physical trades for the second time this year. Look at their floppy sales, past issue 1 everything tanks.

Marvel will keep going due to their film world

Just like Sony pictures animation will still keep going

>>93634778
Pretty sure their collected editions are the only thing keeping them afloat.

>>93630282
>15 Peter Parker books, 20 X-Men books

One of the points frequently made about how Marvel's sales strategies fail is that when a character is doing well and then all of a sudden they have between 3 and 15 books on the market about that character instead of just one, it actually causes people to lose interest in the character because they're not willing to commit to that much shit at once, and the sales tank.

>>93634823
>15 Peter Parker books.

Where?

>>93627422
Didn't they say there wouldn't be any more of that shit for at least 18 months?

>>93634706
The barely traced poser art ruins it for me. You can add as many colors as you want, but the base image is still kinda shitty.

>>93635171
It's hyperbole but over-saturation of the more popular characters is undeniable. I mean shit look at what they did with Kamala as soon she started getting popular. She's in enough events and team books now that it's actually getting to be unreasonable for her to logically be doing all these things at once. As soon as Marvel catches a whiff of success they push the character with full force until everyone is sick of them.

>>93635171
It's hyperbole, but when Marvel released World of Wakanda and later The Crew based off of Black Panther's initially strong, and currently okay, sales, it didn't translate into picking up new readers or current readers buying an additional book. Instead the existing audience simply split between the books. Very popular characters can support multiple books, especially if there are different hooks between the books, but unless your initial title is stable on the 50k+ side of sales it's probably not going to work.

Print in general is dying. Newsweek killed its print edition for a while. Playboy tried to gin up sales overseas by abandoning nude spreads. Everything is in trouble and everything is on the table.

Marvel does have the advantage of being backed by the mouse, but will only survive as long as the movies make money. If those start to tank, Marvel will be liquidated. DC is in a worse spot, Warner Brothers is run by morons. Realistically, comics sales will continue to fall, and store owners should get out while they're still ahead.

>>93633674
>Marvelfags say that but its ALWAYS Marvel that tries to collapse the industry by self-destructing. Marvel just needs to die.
Marvel dies, rest of the industry dies. It's that simple. No shop will survive losing a third of it's sales outright. Same goes for DC. Either of the big 2 die, and they're done

>>93627514

Maybe your imaginary kids should just read manga or anything that isn't capeshit, maybe they should try picking up a Hemingway book

>>93627164
Not really anon, DC holds the hardcover market, that is profitable for DC we Warner. Disney isn't as forgiving as Warner is.

>>93626957
Save it from what, having the consistent #1 spot for $ sales and unit sales in the direct market?

Is this the part where you absolutely promise scout's honor that DC are making $80 billion/year from sales of Brightest Day trades through bookstores and Amazon?

>>93627024
>I'm hoping they clean house when it comes to editorial
That should be easy to do, since there's barely anything there right now.

>>93637798
They use tricks to stay on top to solely benefit themselves, but not retailers, who are feeling the squeeze and being vocal about it.

>>93627201
Tilda.

DC has the trade market for themselves and thats free money, besides being the kings of merchandise, the videogames being all hits, etc. They could survive without the WB movie franchises. But Marvel is fucked the minute the movies stop being popular though, they have literally nothing else going on

>>93627024
I actually do hope that the mouse steps in and cleans up. I understand that they mostly bought Marvel for movie and toy rights, but no company wants ANY part of its business to underperform. I'm sure they'd much rather have a successful comic wing than a slumping one.

>>93626957
Marvel is the obnoxious special needs child of Disney. When you're a parent of such a kid, you don't have any expectations or hopes, you just put up with them because they're yours.

>>93636118
>Marvel dies, rest of the industry dies.
I don't see problem with that. The comics can't reborn, if they are slowly dying.

>>93634754
Imagine, if various comics would be licensed to different companies? Imagine X-Men being published by Image? If Donald Duck, Scrooge can be published by IDW...

>>93636102
this.

or... they can adapt and catch-up to the XXI century

>>93637798
>Is this the part where you absolutely promise scout's honor that DC are making $80 billion/year from sales of Brightest Day trades through bookstores and Amazon?
DC switched to a 'fluid' business plan in 07'-08'. A deal for their back catalogue and investment in digital. Is it an $80 billion profit? Who the fuck knows. Diamond got cut out (for the most part) and part of the deal is not releasing any hard numbers. No one not on the inside at DC actually knows how well it's working out which is part of the problem with guessing the future of the industry.
Maybe it's all propaganda, maybe DC starting to give diamond a little shit is just chest thumping, but DC looks and acts like they can capitalise on Marvel shitting the bed. Maybe even renegotiate direct to retail.
which will never happen. dc and marvel are just two whores fighting over the same cock and three years from now the LCS' and us consumers will be eating the same creampie from a different snatch. feels bad mang

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>>93638609
I just don't get why they haven't done something already. I realize comic books aren't really a priority in terms of money making but just letting them continue on as they are is just bad for everyone in the long run. Marvel is basically an IP farm to them but in recent years the new stuff they've put out are not worth making in to movies or shows. A few like Kamala could work but nobody is gonna watch a Mosaic or America Chavez movie.

While there's certainly a large amount of old comics to mine stories from eventually that well will dry up and they'll need new stuff to adapt assuming they don't want to end up doing endless reboots. Not to mention their current output is just losing them all but the most blind fanboys. I mean do they honestly think their making worthwhile comics and complaints are all from "racist/sexist/homophobic" virgin neckbeards? Are they really that deluded?

>>93638927
The only comic books I'm buying are Usagi Yojimbo and Dylan Dog, and Thorgal

>>93638708
Just kill them off, they don't need to be brought back. It's obvious Time Warner/Disney bought the publishers as IP farms, no one gives a fuck about the print medium

>>93639020
Let them all burn

>>93627542
>thinks he'll be able to get sales figures of large comic shops anywhere else
Get with the times grandpa

>>93628979
He's the 3rd biggest shareholder at Disney, nobody is going to tell him to fuck off.

>>93639085
But he can be given a nice pension and cheque every month, if he agrees to fuck off from ruining the company

>>93634721
>implying this hasn't been tried
Lmao fuck off casual who thinks he has all the answers

>>93634778
I'm amazed that the #1 gimmick still sells.

>>93627064
Owner of my LCS admitted years ago that comics are actually a really small part of his sales and Magic & other games are the main source of his revenue & have been for years

>>93634721
>the solution is to make people drop all their books because they don't want to pay for shit they don't care about

?

>>93639182
My LCS owner told me "abloo bloo bloo, GTFO from my store, you faggot with your hipster tastes"
I even made a photo, give me a sec

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>>93639234
here it is

>>93639085
just need someone to pony up for a discrete assassin

>>93639112
He won't. He's rich enough already anyway, he just stays to fuck with us.
Nothing will change until he dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lee sold him some of that true believer immortality serum in one of their contract negociations.

>>93626957
That is just sad.

Nick Fury has been great. Hopefully people are just trade waiting it.

>>93639297
In other words, Ike could just retire, or move elsewhere, but he won't, because he hates us?

>>93639182
Yeah that's been a common trend for years now.

>>93634706
It was a stealth mini, I think we all saw that coming.

But I'm enjoying the ride.

>>93639301

I seriously think people don't care about Fury Jr.

>>93639312
That or he does it out of artistic passion.

>>93639411
Well, he certainly rustles my inner anti-semite

>>93639277
He's a former Israeli special agent, which is how he went like 30 years without a picture taken of him and he only got caught on cameras in this last year because of his close friendship with Trump.

You'll probably wake up with the assassins head in your bed and a bill for the delivery fee.

>>93639454
>and he only got caught on cameras in this last year because of his close friendship with ....
based you-know-who

>>93639454
See, maybe I'm just secretly a supervillain, but if someone killed my favorite horse and put it in my bed so their shitty cousin or whatever could be in my movie, I would turn so hardcore on those motherfuckers that even if I died, they'd regret fucking with me.

>>93638609
The mouse made this mess in first place

>>93639524
Disney is kind of an unambiguously Lawful Evil company, but no one cares because they have our childhood by the balls. It's not a coincidence that every time Mickey Mouse almost goes public domain, copyright law changes.

>>93639524
>>93638609
>>93638932
The mouse hasn't done anything to Marvel except remove the movies from the company.
This is all the result of Marvel's business strategies and the way Perlmutter, Alonso and marketing run things
Heaps of people on this board don't seem to understand just how hands-off Disney is. Even child companies that are operating at a loss will be kept around most of the time, until it becomes substantial or consistent enough to warrant action.

Unless there is something specific that Disney execs want Marvel to do, or if Marvels profits sink into massive deficits, Disney will not interfere keep in mind Marvel Entertainment does merchandise, not Marvel Studios. So they still make good money without the comics

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>>93639625
>Heaps of people on this board don't seem to understand just how hands-off Disney is.
Tell that to the Gravity Falls fandom.

>>93639625
Dis'ney a good boy, he dindu nuffin'

>>93639672
Disney =/= Disney tv channels
Think of the channel/group as a company like Marvel.

Although the sub-company itself might have fucked with GF, the larger company wouldn't have. It will let the sub-company make it's own choices. It does the same with Marvel E.

Think of Disney as a deadbeat parent who doesn't give a shit about what it's kids do, unless the police come knocking.

>>93639699
Disney a good corporate juggernaut, dindu nuffin

>>93630550
>DC brought Watchmen into continuity with success
It was just a temporary success, though. The sells have been falling worse than n52 which is why DC have been doing a bunch of crossovers (Reborn, Button, Lazarus...etc) to boost sells.

>>93636102
Pretty much what this dude said. I have a feeling that comic industry will not be around in 10-15 years if they didn't find a solution.

>>93627064
Its not like the MCU even follows the story of the comics. Besides, cant you just see "The FIRST film exclusive hero / villian" being a marketing gimmick down the road?

>>93639625
Marvel Studios did cancel James Gunn's pitch for Power Pack MAX so it's not quite cut and dry.

>>93640110
Marvel Studios did, or Disney did?
I'll have to admit I don't know anything about this particular circumstance

>>93640073
Yeah, they really don't need comics to keep the movies going.

Just kill the floppies already and go full digital and trades.

>>93626957
Why doesn't Big Bang Comics just drop their stock of Marvel comic books?

>>93635598
That was when they thought Legacy would sell

>>93634706
God Im so fucking tired of Hydra

>>93636102
Only a Marvelfag would think Marvel is not doing worse than DC

>>93636118
Nah. If Marvel dies there will be a bad period and then everybody will pick up the pieces again, same as they did the last time Marvel tanked the industry.

People will still want comics even if your precious Marvel is gone.

>>93636102
>Marvel does have the advantage of being backed by the mouse, but will only survive as long as the movies make money.
... except Marvel isn't a singular company any more

Marvel Entertainment is the comics, tv shows, merch etc
Marvel Studios is the movies

They are totally and 100% separate from one another. If the comics crash, the movies are unaffected. If the movies stop, the comics don't.

>>93640169
>>93640193
Because if you kill Marvel floppy books, you kill ALL floppy books, and you consequently kill all comic book shops and put all those guys out of business.

>>93640333
Well I wouldn't say the movies are unaffected. The news stories and public opinion will certainly be unfavorable for the movies. It wouldn't be the end of them, but it would take a lot of media blitzing and damage control to make up for it.

>>93634778
God they are so stubborn.
They need to hire better writers and stop with this SJW bullshit. But their like "Nope! Heres another minority teen replacing a legacy character written by some dick we found on twitter"

>>93640364
That's a valid point, but it's not what I mean.
If Marvel movies die that isn't the end of the comics (assuming they survive that long). Nor will Disney keep the comics alive past their expiry date "for the sake of the movies". They'd just claim that media has moved onto a new form and go with it.

>>93640339
Why don't we test it?
I'll believe it when I'll see it

Also, death to floppies would be a good thing

>>93640339
>you kill ALL floppy books
Why this a bad thing? Even comic stores aren't even benefiting from them.

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>>93639672
Funny, I thought we were talking about Marvel Comics, not fucking Gravity Falls.

>>93639171
It's mostly dumb speculators and big stores that over order for a 1 in 1000 variant that they sell to rich collectors.

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>>93640444
We were talking about whether or not Disney is a hands on company asshole

>>93628979
>>93638609
>>93638932
if legacy bombs i see disney stepping in and/or guys like ike getting forced out as an inevitability.

>>93639085
3rd biggest shareholder or not it's gonna be pretty hard to explain marvel entertainment's recent blunders to his mouse overlords.

if they can't force him out either he'll be given someone to hold his leash or they'll shove him into a corner of marvel away from the big decisions and just forget about him.

>>93627064
Nah most of my comic shops end up hgetting more customer hype from Image titles. Most oldfags are burned out of image and only talk about new stuff from Image or Dark Horse

>>93640339

Comic shops and Diamond Distribution need to die, they are what has been holding the industry back. 25 page floppies need to die too. Comics need to move full on into book stores and online distribution of graphic novels and trade paperbacks, an area in which DC and Image already completely destroy Marvel at.

>>93640607
Marvel is only an IP factory for tv and movies now. It's why they downplayed mutant and are shilling Inhumans. It's also why they are launching so many books. They don't care if 99% of them fail. If one works they can make another billion dollar movie franchise. Comics are a drop in the bucket

>>93639625
Was amanat hired before they bought Marvel?

>>93640809
>25 page floppies need to die too.
Lol sure. One of the complaints about Marvel is the price of their floppies, but people still give those a shot. Imagine how amazingly the market will do if floppies "die" and people have to buy TPBs blindy.

>>93641064
who cares? it's a drop in the bucket anyway

>>93640973
Just before. She started working for Marvel in late 2009, the buy-out was finalized in December of that year.

>>93641118
Spoken like a faggot that needs to have his faggot head bashed in with a crowbar.

You kill the floppie and print version and comics will be a DEAD industry.

The floppie keeps the industry alive but a cocksucking abomination in the eyes of God like you would not know that. Too busy getting AIDS via unprotected butt fucking.

Floppies produce a steady stream of income that gives companies the god-damn money to MAKE TPBs and shit i the wind producing digital versions of their books. And comic shops, like floppies, not only give them a steady stream of customers who will buy their shit on a regular basis, but also the trades too. Not to mention give them a way to find out what sells and doesn't sell, especially since digital means jack shit in terms of having garbage sales due to piracy being a far superior format for people to get their comics digitally.

So go spread your AIDS and perversions elsewhere you chomo monster. You have no fucking clue what the real world is like and need to be hung from a tree like the pedophile scum you are

>>93641173
Hm wonder if that could have been a demand? That Marvel tried to become more "Disney-friendly" first, and then everything went wrong when the editors were fired?

>>93641335
ahh... your tears are sweet.

Death to comic book industry - you cannot stop this

>>93641335

Take your ritalin and go outside, you have clearly spent too much time on the internet today.

Also, DC made more money last year selling Watchmen, Sandman, and The Dark Knight Returns in book stores like Barnes and Noble than they made from all the floppies they put out.

>>93641335
Fuck off cause with that analysis you can't explain all the direct to trades that are sold in mainstream book stores. That is the future of comics.

Floppies rip off customers and only benefit LCS. If that was your arguement fine but it wasn't

>>93627422
Remember when people made fun of DC for having too many relaunches?

>>93641396
All that is known about demands Disney made to Marvel prior to the buy-out:

1. They had to "fix" One More Day; the end result being One Moment In Time which revealed that the "sell the marriage out to save Aunt May" deal was really meant for Mary Jane (Peter was just a means to an end for Mephisto to make the offer to MJ) and MJ, once she knew Peter was on board with the plan, forcing Mephisto to erase the deal from existence once May was saved.

2. Bring Scott Lang back to life so they could green light the Ant Man movie, due to Edgar Wright demanding Scott be the Ant Man in the film.

3. Greenlight Children's Crusade and all that entailed regarding bringing Scott back to life/retconning Avengers Disassembled

4. An immediate end to "Dark Reign" (which was going to on indefinitely if not for Disney buying Marvel) as far as the storyline being wrapped up so they could have the purchase coincide with the restoration of the Avengers and the Heroic Age.

>>93641647
These REALLY made the buy sound like a good thing, huh?

>>93639363
I will not pay for Poser art. I'm really disappointed in Patrick Zircher on Action.

>>93638708
>>93639020
>>93639044

This is so pathetic, every sales has morons like you.

>durr comics are dying, i hope they go away forever

fucking trash plz go

>>93641729

He just literally made some bullshit up and you believed it.

How baka is /co/? How guillble can you be?