What does /co/ think about Batgirl?

>>93559988
She has the potential to be great but most writers handle her terribly every chance they get. Also Bruce Timm is a faggot.

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>>93560052

Nice bait.

>>93560052
Why the hate for Cassandra?

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>>93559988
Babs is better as Oracle

>>93560052
That third one isn't even Cass. That's Helena.

>>93560087

I know that's what make's the troll's stupidity even better.

>>93560050
>Also Bruce Timm is a faggot

He's not too bad,beside his BatmanXBatgirl fetish.

>>93560117
But that's the best fetish to unite the people.

>>93559988

She has potential. Sadly, her role currently in DCU is:

A.) Wander with no real direction (seriously what was her direction in New 52? Her job? Her life beyond being Batgirl?).
B.) Be haunted by the Killing Joke.
C.) Have multiple love interests that always fail which always sends her crawling back to Dick CAUSE the casual loves them some Dick/Barb.

Some writer needs to break this cycle and give Barbara an actual freaking life. Not to mention a place in this world.

Kate is now running circles around her again.

>>93560052
>t. Can't be pope.

>>93560117
He has art that he says won't be released until after he dies. We can wait and see how bad it really is.

>>93560237
>Babs/Dick/Bruce cuck porn

>>93560237
My fetish can't wait that long.

The other problem is, well DC fucked the legacy role. Now it's all Barbara. Thing is, there was four prior Batgirls. Oh sure one was only Batgirl for six months (Helena), and the other was Bat-Girl. But the later was still a Batgirl. Like the Alan Scott/Jay Garrick of Batgirls.

If she can't be Kate's side-kick, then maybe put Bette in the mentor role as an older woman. Nudge Barbara and guide her to something at least. Then bring back the League of Batgirls concept which makes Cassandra and Stephanie Batgirls again. Because goddamn did both get the shaft in the New 52. While with Rebirth only Cassandra has gotten a better deal with a "average" to piss-poor arc. Which somehow is still better than anything recently of Barbara and Stephanie's (okay I digress Stephanie had a few good stories by Valentine).

>>93560237
It's just a whole shitload of pictures of Batman fucking Babs in the ass.

>>93560279
Bette is the one true Batgirl.

>>93560074
Naah...

>>93560318

There are a lot of one true Batgirls, but DC will always say it will be Barbara because they love using her for everything and haven't even given one of the other's a shot.

>>93560074
>>93560379
Yeah.

As Oracle, Babs was literally the brains of the entire superhero community. As Batgirl, she's just beating up low-level crooks.

>>93560117
His lois and clark dynamic is absolute trash

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Superior in every way.

>>93560069
Faggots hate her. That is why. Nothing more than that really.

Cass is a bit overrated desu.

She has good stories, but it seems like half the reason people like her is contrarians and her hitting a bunch of fetishes.

>>93560570
She was more like Google, just a tool for Superheroes to get infor to move the plot along.

>>93559988
I continue to read her Rebirth run in the hopes the artstyle and writing improves or I get some DickBabs action

>>93559988
Cocksleeve for Lucius Fox Jr

Cass fans are pretty bad. They freak out whenever she is not shown being the absolute best at fighting in every situation ever.

>>93560069
The way I understand it, only the first 30 issues of her ongoing is actually any good, and the rest is all either mediocre schlock or OOC shit. But to hear fans talk about her, she always had a perfect relationship with Batman and her book was just always inherently better, rather than it being good at first, but the longer she ran around illiterate, the more ludicrous it felt. So there could be hype backlash because of the reality vs. the meme.

>>93559988
This image is the only good thing related to modern Babs

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>>93567063
Variant Cover versions are good

>>93560052
>Stephanie Brown
>people with taste
Yeah, shit taste.

>>93561272
>it seems like half the reason people like her is contrarians and her hitting a bunch of fetishes
Exactly this

>>93566862
Some of the later arcs by Anderson Gaybrach are pretty good.
>>93561272
This is kind of true but I know for me personally and I'm sure plenty of others her reason for being Batgirl and her relationship with her parents make her feel more legitmate as a superhero then Barabara being some librarian who decides to fight crime wearing a mask. That's why I felt like the Oracle role worked out more for her considering her background.

>>93561272
>>93567474

Both of you are retards. She's the only Batgirl that really makes sense.

>>93567496
rude

>Love Barbara Gordon Batgirl as a serious hero
>Fans will always prefer her as a cripple
>DC will prefer as a lol randumb selfie taking teen
>Movies will change her race because red heads always get black washed
Hurts. I'm expecting Whedon's movie of her will star a sassy quipping black woman.

>>93568313
Red Heads are hot as fuck Whedon would be a massive faggot if he did that

>>93561256

No, faggot, it's because she has the most disgruntled fanbase of all the Batgirls. All Cassfags do is bitch about Barbara Gordon, and how DC hates their waifu.

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>93568313
>>Movies will change her race because red heads always get black washed

Yeah, i'm actually scared about this happening.

Even if they do cast a real redhead as Babs, you know there will be some SJW BLM shitbags who will start a controversy that they white-washed Batgirl because she was brown in the Lego movie.

Why did you include that cancer YouTube link in the subject?

Anyway, Babs is my batgirl. I like Orphan too though. :^)

>>93559988

There's some good Babs-as-Batgirl stories, but few and far between. A couple one-shots by Kelley Puckett, some random Animated Series-style issues, and Year One. Other than that, she's way better as Oracle. Don't even get me started on that Burnside trash.

The Stephanie Brown run as Batgirl is great; the Cass Cain run as Batgirl (also by Puckett) is even better. Can't miss.

>>93559988
Steph and Cas are top tier. Babs a shit.

>>93570796
>Don't even get me started on that Burnside trash.
Fuck off /co/, you fags never even read burnside and just regurgitated whatever Batman news told ya.

>>93560074

Batman has a small army of foot soldiers, Batgirl adds precisely nothing to the batverse or DCverse as a whole.

Oracle was the de facto *commander* of the Justice League. Plenty of metahumans to go around but if they don't know where to go or what to do, nothing gets done. Oracle was a thing of uniqueness in the meta community.

Oracle also made Batman better by "outsourcing" some of the stuff that Batgod simply doesn't have enough time in the day to do. He can't be the world's best detective, world's best mechanical engineer for gadgetry, and the world's premiere martial artist all at once, something had to give and letting Oracle be his subcontracted information broker took some of the humanly-impossibility out of the bat character.

I like that babs batgirl existed at one point. But I like that she grew into Oracle much more.

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>>93570796

I actually think BTAS did Barbara's Batgirl origin story better than Year One, by tying it directly to her father and his fight for justice, instead of the idea that becoming Batgirl was basically an accident due to her dressing up as Batman for a masquerade.

I agree that Stephanie's run great, and essentially a better replacement for Barbara than Cassandra, because Stephanie was much closer in character and costume design to Babs than Batgirl, the same way Tim Drake was a great Robin because he was more like Dick Grayson, but a more modernized Robin.

Cassandra Cain always seemed too far off from the basic idea of Batgirl. I think she was the victim of the sort of the mid to late 90's idea to make everything more gritty and more Xtreeeeeme!!

We can argue this back and forth, but i do believe that Barbara Gordon's Batgirl survived over all the others is because of not just the media exposure, but because she has a greater balance between dark and light than Cassandra.

If DC had given Stephanie the time and attention to grow and get more exposure, she would have been more well known and popular eventually, but the whole creation of Stephanie as Batgirl was already directly tied to DC wanting to bring Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl.
Stephanie was a last minute switch, because they were already planning to bring Babs back at that point.
Look at the first three covers of Stephanie's run... You see a figure taking off Cassandra's costume and putting on Barbara's classic suit... Because at that stage they assumed the content of that comic would be Barbara/Batgirl, and that's why it was called "Batgirl Reborn"

>>93570894
>Oracle was the de facto *commander* of the Justice League
No she wasn't? Also being the leader in comic is meaningless, mainly cause no one know how to write leaders.

>>93570894

>Oracle also made Batman better

No. Oracle made the DCU and specifically Batman look like they needed someone to constantly change their diapers.

>>93570812
Steph is shit, they should've left her dead.

>>93570969
Her origin did have something to do with her father in year one.

>>93571771

Yes, but not with his thirst for justice. The idea being that Barbara Gordon grew up in an environment where daddy is a cop and his best friend wears a mask.

>>93571779
Nice.

>>93571779
Those are literal man boobs.

>>93559988
I don't get why she couldn't stay a cripple. It was a cool character, disabled but not a token, had her own thing going. Maybe she couldn't hold a book on her own but was a good addition to team books. Now she's generic and boring. People call for diversity and representation but don't mind rewriting good disabled character into run-of-the-mill shitter for some reason.

>>93565809
Good luck with that. It's a containment book and it will stay that way.

>>93572200
Yeah, I realized that a while ago but I like Babs and it hurts to see her characterized like this. Sometimes I forget she's an adult with the way she's written but I'm already deep into it so I might as well keep going. At the very least they could give her a decent costume

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otp

>>93572177

She couldn't stay a cripple for the same reason Bruce Wayne isn't in a wheelchair post-KnightFall, and why Jason fucking Todd isn't six feet under.

...and yes, Babs was constantly being used as a token cripple. It's the goddamn reason it took her 20 years what Bruce Wayne did in one. Because some venom spewing lady stomped around the DC offices preventing Babs from being healed for 2 decades, whenever anyone dared to suggest that it's a little strange that in a world where people can heal from broken spines and miraculously cured from DEATH, travel through 500 different dimensions and back again, that Barbara Gordon could somehow not make it out of that chair as well... No, because real paraplegic can't be cured, that would be too unrealistic, right?

Fucking cunts with double standards is why she couldn't get out of the chair for 20 years.

She's cool. I'm not sure which Batgirl I like the best, I love originals but Cassandra appeals to my weeb sensitivities and Stephanie Brown's pretty entertaining.

>>93572215
>I'm already deep into it so I might as well keep going.
You sound like a Marvel reader. Which makes sense since Batgirl is written like a typical Marvel book. I'm not sure what DC Is thinking there.

>>93570969
>Cassandra Cain always seemed too far off from the basic idea of Batgirl.
What is the basic idea of Batgirl?

Babs devalues the core premise if the Bat Family by being ultra-successful despite a comparative and extreme lack of training.
You could argue the same of Steph and Jason but they at least died because of those deficiencies.

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>>93571779

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>>93573021
Synergy. The Adam West show created her so the comics had to include her too.

This is also your daily reminder that Cass had the first and longest Batgirl run.

>>93560170
Eh, Burnside (and maybe Birds of Prey? I don't read it so I don't know) has done that. She has a supporting cast and does her own thing. We'll see what happens with Dick and the upcoming issues that address their romance but I expect that will put it on ice for a while.

>>93573162
Cass always seems to me like she's the Batgirl in Michael Keaton movies. Someone you never want to meet in a dark alley.

>>93561272
Wrong, Cass is best Batgirl because she is by far the best fighter and she believes in the things the bat symbol represents. Babs is annoying and Steph is annoying, dangerously incompetent, and should have stayed dead and Jason too.

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>>93573434
She seems to have the strongest moral compass in the bat-family. Which reminds me of what Gail Simone wanted to do with her before the "I'm evil now/Deathstroke injected me with her evil juice" debacle: If I remember correctly, Cass would have been inspired/converted by a priest who gets killed by the mob. Cass would then use her status as a near mythical figure in the league of assasssins to start her own movement, basically a Jesuits-kicking-ass order where she would slowly become the first superhero saint.

>>93573602
I thought that was kinda lame to be honest. I was raised Christian and I think there's enough overt religious iconography in super hero comics already.

>>93573602

>basically a Jesuits-kicking-ass order where she would slowly become the first superhero saint

Yeah, because Jesus really promoted kicking and punching people in the face...

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>>93573871
Only when the circumstances demanded it.

>>93572660
Batman is a main character in whole DC universe and best selling one at that. Babs is a valuable sidekick level character and doesn't deserve the same treatment as Batman or Superman.

Just cause healing any disease or coming back from the grave is in the realm of possibility in certain universe, doesn't mean that everyone that matters should be healthy and alive.

Jason Todd not being dead is retarded just like Damian not being dead, Babs not being paralyzed, you and your post.

>>93573912
WORLDSTAR

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>>93573602
>Deathstroke injected me with her evil juice

SLADED

>>93559988
You know you can't really jump and run around a city in that sort of panties. They'd rub ass a lot.

>>93573912
>"Hey, dude, see my talking hand. Her name is Mary. She's my girlfriend. I generally use sock, but man, did I ran out of socks. Mary, say hi to this fine dude. *Hi!*"

>>93573953
>we can only use the sci-fi and magical elements for main characters.
That's an autistic rule, like something a legitimate autitst would believe.

>>93574234
I agree, it sounds pretty autistic. You were the one that made it up though.

>>93574268
No I'm not

>>93560069
People who didn't bother reading her solo book and only experienced her through Beachen's shitty Robin/Batgirl work.

>>93561117
Why DC nuked her? With the Chinese movie market they could do a Cass movie with a Chinese actress.

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>>93575060

>>93575060
Because they wanted to bring back Babs for some reason.

>>93573602
Yup, Angel of the Bat - there's a current fanfic that's exploring the concept.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10195309/1/Angel-of-the-Bat

>>93561324
That ignores 1) Birds of Prey, and 2) her relationships with those superheros.

>>93572692
>You sound like a Marvel reader
I'm not delusional like them though

>>93561324
She ran the Birds of Prey.

>>93575060
Because they've only pushed Barbara. That's all they know. They think she's the popular one because that's the only one they've pushed. Maybe it's fear too because Cass isn't the typical female character.

She's not Oracle anymore, and this has no good reason to exist.

Let me know when she goes back to being a semi-shady information and arms broker for superheroes, instead of another generic cape who could be replaced with any other generic cape.

The problem with Cass is that she's too lofty a concept to be Batgirl, yet outside of the Batverse she'd shrivel and die. Batgirl, while a character that can have a solo title, still needs to be restrained by playing second fiddle to batman. Cass very well didn't need to, her skills made her equal in ways to Batman, and her handicaps were interesting enough to let her stand on her own. Her interactions with the Batfamily did help grow her character, but ultimately, besides Batman, they could've been different characters.

Ultimately, though, she just didn't feel like a proper Legacy character. Generally if you're replacing another, big name character, there has to be some similarity to the namesake. And Cass really didn't. That's why she was never pushed as batgirl outside comics. She's too circumstantial to the era and story she emerged from.

>>93577369
What does Jaime Reyes really have in common with Ted Kord?