JSA: Starman

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>>93519204
(this is a bit of a placeholder because I have a bunch of shit to do before I can sit down here, but I wanted a thread up so people could talk about today's comics)

>>93519220
Completely, completely off-topic but here's a fascinating video on the Tengen NES games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLA_d9q6ySs

>>93519220
ELMER FUDD and they should literally ban King from writing any story more than two issues on Batman.

>>93519204
Does this lead to Robinson's Starman

>>93519304
I would actually love if King's Batman became mostly just a series of one-offs or two-issue arcs at most with an an overarching plot. But of course since Batman is the biggest title in the line it has to be BIG IMPORDENT stories that lead to big impordent crossovers.

To be fair King actually kind of writes his issues this way, or at least tries to, in that each issue is kind of its own scene, but the issues are much more interconnected than what I'm talking about.

>>93519368
No but Robinson does bring back a lot of things from it.

>>93519220
Bases Loaded best NES baseball series.

If anyone bought + read Panel x Panel ITT I'm interested in what you thought/think of it.

>>93519204
Hello, Storyteller.

>DC comics aren't just for kids!
Uh oh. The "not just for kids" thing never bodes well.

>>93519220
In that case, I have something to get off my chest.

You did this to yourselves. Rucka's second run on Wonder Woman was fine. It wasn't great or anything, but it was a perfectly serviceable story that wrapped itself up nicely. But, tons of people give it undue hate because it wasn't the greatest thing ever. And frankly, it's your own damn fault for giving into the hype. You let your expectations soar to unreasonable heights, and now you're inevitably disappointed when the run was merely decent.

Stop doing that. Maybe you'll be happier in life.

>>93519220
I think I'm gonna finally drop Hal n Pals, I'm so sick of how fucking dull and horribly paced that book is

Batman/Fudd was pretty fun, and I'm glad they announced another KFC comic

i haven't read any comics today

shrug emjoi.jpeg

>>93519368
This series was basically the only time David got to wear the red and green, and he was some asshole who tried to kill the new guy because the Mist played them both. This was back when he and Jack thought their dad was dead fighting in Ragnarok.

>>93519304
>more than two issues on Batma
That's one of the things I love about 80's and early 90's Batman, a lot of one or two issue stories.
Same goes for the Punisher

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>>93519433
actually, the NOT FOR KIDS era is one of my favorites--that got us Squad, Manhunter, Captain Atom, etc.

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>>93519448
>another KFC comic
yessssssssss

>>93519457
>Squad
speaking of, this is definitely DC's version of what happened to Marvel's GotG now

>>93519380
I feel like Snyder was talking about wanting to take over Detective Comics at one point so he could write Batman stories that didn't involve the fate of Gotham

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>>93519480
I haven't been reading it, but it's not like it was a good book from the New 52 launch onwards either

>>93519475
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E05XOkyaq-w

>>93519480
>>93519505

Rebirth run has been good but yeah the movie hit it hard

>>93519505
True, but shit like Waller choosing Harley as the right candidate to lead the skwad is 2much4me. It's me, I am the characterfag.

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>>93519512
God bless Tony Bedard

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>>93519558
fuck yes vintage ads

So Batman/Fudd is good?

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>>93519512
Bless their weird marketing

This is a very vague but interesting set of tweets. I'm honestly excited with one recent DC announcement that Doyle is going to take over YA and Vertigo, I really think it would lead to good creative voices in DC writer catalogue.
https://twitter.com/Ssnyder1835/status/879901602567639040?s=09

>>93519448
I think the last one I read was early on when Guy crushed a can to his forehead. Just couldn't keep up with it.

>>93519574
Yeah. Not as good as Hex though.

>>93519574
It was pure comic kino.

>>93519475
>Justice League International lets Russian into their group
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
... Dude. Did you think they were bullshitting with their name? Yeah, I can totally see why you'd think the Justice League INTERNATIONAL would be an all-American affair.

How come nobody ever bitches about hilariously unsubtle political commentary in older books? Oh right, those types are idiots who think "agendas" in fiction are a new thing.

>>93519585
>new talent on new titles
Hopefully this is true and not hype bullshit

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>>93519585
Huh, yeah, that is good stuff

Also, going by when I was told by the unnamed artist about doing the mini that hasn't been announced yet, this artist-centric thing has been in the works for some time. Which makes sense, if you want a writer/artist full mini, you have to give serious lead.

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>>93519433
I'm positive it'll be looked back on very fondly when people are mostly reading it in trade and without the shade of the le ebin keka maymay and assblasted Azzarello fans.

Though even I kind of was bored with it at first I think it became fantastic.

I think the first issues of it being slow may have also colored peoples' perceptions, first impressions are everything, but as I've said all the time, it reads so much better all at once than monthly.

I would like to comment that there's a weird belief I keep seeing that Rucka is somehow vindictively retconning Azzarello's run when that's not the case at all. Literally all he did was fix the Amazons. Even though it makes it a bit more confusing how everything else happened, he never at any point touched on any of it or tried to retcon it, by which I mean all the stuff with her being Zeus's daughter, the intrigue with the gods, Zola and Lennox, none of that stuff was ever even mentioned, the entirety of the Lie was limited to the illusory Themyscira.

Even I was expecting #25 today to be a dump of continuity fixes, but it literally didn't touch any of that at all, just gave us a nice little "where are they now" establishing where everybody is afterwards and ending with Diana domming Steve into bed.

>>93519558
He also did the WW/Taz weirdo crossover, I think.

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>>93519651
Okay, wish me luck because I've never screwed around with hair color before

Aiming to be back (and letting it dry) in half an hour

>>93519585
This sounds very promising, but I will refrain from getting my hopes up too much

>>93519593
He writes Guy pretty well but the Guy+Arkillo thing creeps me out, Hal doesn't actually have any story lines going on, too much Kyle wangst, John can only speak in military cliches, every character is really one note and the interaction isn't that great plus the pacing blows and none of the stories have been very interesting (or if they had any promise, then the lackluster endings ruined it)

I can't deal with it anymore

Reminder that OP is a Marvelbro and will subtly shill Secret Empire 5 in this thread.

>>93519687
If you've seriously never dyed your hair before, what brought this on? Is it to show character development?

>>93519747
You're not funny, you're just pathetic, and you've been warned.

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>>93519855
>and you've been warned.

>>93519651
Wait a sec, this is just the plot of Thor

>>93519654
All too often, people see what they want to see, even if it's not actually there. I think the perception came from the Rebirth special, where the God of War helmet gets crushed, implying that subplot never happened. But even then, that and the murderzons are the only things that were undone, and thank fuck for that, because they were pointless and insulting respectively.

What folks seem most upset about is the "loss" of the Nu52 version of the Olympians, because apparently, people just can't get enough of the same tired drama of the same inbred retards they've been force fed for millenia.

>>93519747
Oh so THAT'S why she's dying her hair green

>>93519685
Bedard's been impressing me the past couple of months considering how boring he's been the past few years.

>>93519687
What color are you going for?

>>93519963
What's he been doing the past couple of months?

>>93519637
Cold War distrust dies hard. With good fucking reason, and I say this as someone who loves Rocket Red and his hokey smokey dialogue and earnest enthusiasm.

>>93519995
He wrote the Suicide Squad/Banana Splits and Wonder Woman/Tasmanian Devil crossovers.

>>93519921
I actually found Rucka's portrayal of them as actual religious figures for Diana to be refreshing. At first I thought he was just making them animals to avoid comparisons to Azz's gods, not to undo them, but just to not bother trying to "outdo" them.

But especially in this last issue I saw it more as a representation of them "moving in mysterious ways". It's probably the first time that I've seen the Greek gods depicted in a way that I could see someone like Diana genuinely still worshiping them, not just in comics but anywhere. I mean, in Perez's WW Zeus tried to rape her, in Rucka's Athena kept making her do shit she didn't want to, in Byrne's the gods as a whole decided to just get rid of the Amazons because they felt like it, and in Azz's they were almost literally, as you've said, inbred hillbillies going about with dumb feuds over nothing.

>>93519963
I was so astonished by how much I enjoyed the WW/Taz crossover, really did not expect to get a single lick of enjoyment out of it.

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>>93519824
fun

>>93519989
rockabilly blue

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>>93520105

>>93519997
I feel like the Rocket Reds could easily make a comeback if they pulled a Captain America with them. Have them stand for the ideal of Russia, rather than the reality. Hell, Dmitri was like that more or less, so it wouldn't be hard.

And yes, DC, bring back the Rocket Red Brigade. We need more non-American heroes, and we need more heroes who use power armor. I'm beyond sick of Tony Stark and his bullshit, and frankly, the world is bigger than New York and New York stand-ins.

>>93519654
>being Zeus's daughter
Man, I've seen so many people saying that he retconned her origin to being a clay baby, but never actually showing where he did it. So much of /co/ seems to believe that he got rid of everything Azz related

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>>93520136
so how IS Bendis IM?

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>>93520157
YES VINTAGE ADS

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>>93520211

>>93520073
Was Bedard considered good pre-Flashpoint? I'm only familiar with his Nu52 stuff and his stuff always put me to sleep with how boring it was. I think I remember hearing that his run on R.E.B.E.L.S. was pretty good.

>>93520157
Bendis' Iron Man? Or his REE REE? Or his Doom?

The first one is boring and meandering, it's pretty obvious he had no bigger plans for Tony and just wanted his movie money, and when he failed to catch that audience, he offed Stark and replaced him with his OC, because at least that way he gets more royalties out of trade sales.
His REE REE is insultingly bad (there's a set of pages around /co/ where she DEMANDS her teacher to demean her just so she can prove her wrong in the future)
His Doom is boring with a few horrible pages here and there, but Doom as a hero is a concept Doomfags love, so naturally they're eating it up

>>93520134
Pretty sure I've seen this X-Files episode before.

>>93520149
Maybe people are confused because he never re-establishes it as a fact? Year One skips all of that and goes straight to her womanhood no pun intended. I think she may reference her clay origin one time but that makes sense since even in Azz's book she doesn't find out about Zeus until later in her life.

>>93520136
Yup and New Super-Man is the best thing DC's putting out right now, we need more of that. I've always been fascinated by the idea of foreign superheroes but usually they just come down to some American or British person writing a bunch of stereotypes and cultural-icon analogues, most notably the Japanese "magical girl, Gundam and Godzilla" archetypes.

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>>93520230
R.E.B.E.L.S. is a lot of fun but it's unavoidably lightweight next to the original.

>>93520073
Having them be a more distant and uninvolved presence is always a good thing, because frankly, there's no good reason for Diana and the other Amazons to worship them. The Olympians are absolute cunts the lot of them, so having them fuck off and be background characters is extremely healthy for one's suspension of disbelief. For now, I can at least pretend the Rebirth Olympians are not the worst. For now.

>WW/Taz
... I hate myself for actually kind of liking that one. This is easily one of the worst ideas ever, and the retarded suit who came up with this shit needs to be punched in the face until they stop breathing. But the story actually worked, and you haven't even a fraction of a clue how painful it is for me to admit this. Fuck.

>>93520211
>Captain Blue Hen
Sounds like the shittiest superhero ever.

>>93520230
REBELS was pretty good and I enjoyed his GLC

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>>93520295
If anyone sees a Chinese/Taiwan/HK review of NSM (that we can read, hobviously) I'd love to see it

>>93520313
>But the story actually worked, and you haven't even a fraction of a clue how painful it is for me to admit this. Fuck.
you've come a long way, we're proud of you

>>93520157
The one with Doom has some interesting ideas but as per usual, Bendis fucks it up. The Riri comic is pretty shit but the panels with her trying to be oppressed when she was younger did crack me up.

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>>93520313
<3 <3 <3

It's okay to like unexpected things that you really ought to hate

>>93520281
I am so over Doom fandom

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>>93520369
Even the outrage machine about SE has started to fade

I'm not really keeping up, I'm waiting for the end

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>>93520444
I am digging these nice quality scans of this unretouched comic even if the colors are a bit weird

>>93520157

i actually like the riri stuff...

>>93520444
It hasn't really done anything worth getting outraged at anymore and Spencer has been behaving himself.

>>93519963
He's mostly good at the meme comics, it seems. Maybe the normal stuff was just boring him?

How is it possible that this Starman looks gayer than Mikaal?

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>>93520465

>>93519204
OP is a faggot.

SO CRANKY HOW ABOUT THEM CROSSOVERS, HMM? PRETTY GOOD, PRETTY *FUN,* RIGHT?

>>93520300
>>93520319
Cool, I'll check it out some time. Off-topic but has anyone hear read Johns' Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E and is it good? It's one of the few things from Johns I haven't read yet plus I'm a sucker for Infinity Inc. characters.

>>93520465
Yeah, something I've realized from reading the EC Comics Archives is that just really, REALLY nice and slightly touched up physical scans are the way to go over digital recoloring.

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>>93520499
that's the surprise magic of the 80s

>>93520497
I think the freedom of the one-shots and their Nerderei really brings out the best in him

>>93520556
it's cute! CUTE!!!!

>>93520295
Foreign superheroes are a criminally untapped well. Exploring non-American notions of justice, social and cultural issues, the way other nations capes interact with each other or how the public responds to them... All good stuff just waiting to be written.

Hell, the potential exists even with some of the big names. Diana and Arthur are both foreign dignitaries. Diana needs more stories outside the States, and Arthur really should keep his superhero activity focused on his own country.

>>93520157
Dunno, haven't read it. I just hate Tony Stark.

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>>93520570
Will is a NEET

we can all empathize with that

>>93520369
Your feelings are my feelings for the Magneto fandom.

>>93520556
Stars and STRIPE is really good and you get to see some character development for Courtney, she starts off as a little brat and eventually blooms into the lovely young heroine you see in JSA

Also good guy Doom vs Ultimate Reed is a nice, fun, idea Bendis hit on

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>>93520598
that has so much movie cancer it needs to just be put down

YOU KNOW, it's not normal to surprise your brother right out of the shower

also, dat ass

>>93520598
I am over movie Magneto fandom.

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>>93520653

>>93520653
Just like in my Japanese comic books

This is boring me to tears so far, was there really nothing else we could have read?

>>93520570
Cool, thanks for the recommendations anon!!

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>>93520721
If it keeps sucking we can jump ship, but it's in -theme for us

Ooh, just found people mad about Mockingbird in SE #5

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>>93520751

>>93520751
Yeah didn't mean to sound like a whiny asshole hah, it's just that you usually run much better stuff, and coming from X-Statix and Squadron Supreme to this is kind of... rough.

This is giving me really strong Star Brand vibes.

>>93520721
At least it's getting all of the early "becoming a hero" stuff out of the way in the first issue instead of dragging it out for 4-5. So if it's willing not to waste my time, I'm willing to give it a few issues.

>>93520551
The WW/Taz one, to my utter chagrin, was actually pretty good. And it's good in a way that doesn't even warrant discussion, since it's a pretty logical interaction between two characters, which the writer clearly did their research on. There's some tension, they team up, and it's all fairly bog standard crossover format and it's perfectly serviceable.

There. Now will you fuck off with this shit? My ears are starting to bleed.

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>>93520767
is this actually /d/

>>93520779
we have been known to read mediocre comics out of curiosity!

>>93520614
Has me even more excited, Courtney was one of my favorite characters in the JSA, makes me miss them even more :(

>>93520793
New-ish here, what's the worst, longest thing that you guys have endured?

>>93520653
>>93520655
I'm not even talking about the movie fandom, I can't stand the comic Magneto fandom.

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>>93520795
Oh yeah, S&S is the groundwork for Courtney and she changes a ton even over its course. And it's fascinating to think about it as, I think the timing is on this--S&S comes out of Robinson's Starman at some point, and Robinson also set up the JSA revival book but was horribly burned out by the end of Starman and handed it all off to Johns. And the results were very good for the characters and his career.

>>93520817
4chan

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>>93520832
Where is the Geo-Force fan????

>>93520817
Oh gosh, worst *and* longest...that's a good question. Maybe that fucking Magog solo, although that wasn't that long, that was the one that defeated us and we skipped issues.

>>93520846
wait we have a winner

>>93520751
What happens in SE #5?

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>>93520861
https://twitter.com/Baronesa1980/status/880120932395884545

>>93520817
>>93520853
>Oh gosh, worst *and* longest...that's a good question. Maybe that fucking Magog solo, although that wasn't that long, that was the one that defeated us and we skipped issues.
THE CROSSING was the most boring dogshit I think we've read

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>>93520861
Mockingbird is the Hydra mole

>>93520313
>... I hate myself for actually kind of liking that one.
I liked that one too. It's kind of a basic "Diana befirends a weirdo monster" but with Taz, but it works. It's tied with King's Elmer Fudd/Batman one. I think you'd like that one more than the rest. Someone posted a story time earlier.

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>>93520886
I was so drunk for most of it

>>93520853
>Just like Geo-Force and Booster Gold
Those are... really random heroes to name, I mean what, not even Superman? Really?

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>>93520920
c-c-c-c-continuity

(Robinson would hit every single thing here)

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>>93520940

>>93520885
Her profile looks like a parody.

>>93520817
Oof. There's competition on that list.

Threeboot Legion was pretty fucking bad as far as I'm concerned, but that's garnered divided opinions. Willingham JSA maybe?

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>>93520970
I'm most intrigued by the combo of bad and long, because there's plenty of short SoP material, but stuff that actively sucks and keeps on doing so is rarer

I have never run Chuck Austen X-Men, tho. And having read some of it, you know, at least it's memorably bad.

>>93520885
Secret Empire was all an elaborate conspiracy so that Spencer could drag Chelsea Cain's favorite character through the mud, because she wore a feminist shirt on a cover and Spencer is also secretly a Nazi skinhead anti-feminist

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>>93521013
It's also like everyone missed just how morally grey/questionable Cain ended up writing Bobbi as

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>>93521036

>>93521013
Wasn't Mockingbird on the Helicarrier when Faustus was brainwashing everyone?

>>93521036
Cause they didn't read the fucking comic as per usual.

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>>93521069
why read a comic critically when you can just bask in how feminist it is

>>93521013
>TFW believe Spencer is a Nazi meme unironically
That nigga was some right winger autist during his earlier political days. It's like he's almost making up for his prior beliefs now.

>>93520465
>Jayne get real

People always get on the 90's, but at least in the 90's characters weren't so quick to scoff at the bizarre milieu they've lived in since they were kids.

>>93520921
she has good taste in husbandos

>>93521036
They don't need to READ the book to know that a woman writer wrote the female protagonist as 100% morally right and correct in every action!

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>>93521088

>>93520940
No mention of Bowie? What the hell is this?

>As Starman, he had a short career as a super-hero
>45 issues
>short career
Wew lad, I wish I had the chance to write such a "short" career for my favorite C-lister.

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>>93521115

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>>93521134
It was the era you got long runs on things :(

>>93521134
It's fucking nuts to consider that c or d listers could have 40+ issue long runs until not that long ago.

>>93521157
also the era where a book losing 1k sales every month was considered a massive flop instead of the usual attrition

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>>93521157
okay what's up with the incest vibes here, seriously

>>93521164
Moon Girl is half way to 40 issues and confirmed to go to like 24 or 25

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>>93521174
>>93521171
Infinity Inc. got axed because of sales

>>93520886
>THE CROSSING
Oh fuck, I had actually managed to block that disjointed mess from memory. Yeah, as far as sustained suckage goes, that may be the winner. Though even then, post-Robinson Earth 2 is down there for sheer stupidity.

>>93520988
Stuff that just straight up sucks will usually get canned pretty quick, but it's kinda rare for garbage to last for a long time, since the comics industry is more reliant on actual quality than others. Video games have preorders and micro transactions to sucker people in to dripfeeding cash, Hollywood has mass market appeal and sheer quantity, but comics don't really have gimmicks to pedal shite at a profit.

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>>93521209
>>93521220
I still hope that email got a bunch of "NO ZUBBOLTS" responses

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>>93521241

>>93521088
>It's such a great book!!!!!!
>Did you read the last issue?
>Yes, it's a great thing they got rid of the rape, it gives her agency!!!!

>>93521164
It was also an era when quality and word of mouth kind of dictated the longevity. I think I read somewhere that Moore's Swamp Thing gained readers as it went on.

>>93521220
>Though even then, post-Robinson Earth 2 is down there for sheer stupidity.
jesus, reading that tire fire issue by issue was bad enough, binging that much concentrated suck would make me want to blow my brains out

what ARE some recently long running shitfests? How long was Finch WW? New 52 Firestorm somehow made it to 20 issues being entirely forgettable, and Venditti GL comes to mind I am biased on that one

>>93521269
DnA GOTG launched at 36k or so and finished on 27k. Today anything that launches on that number is dead on arrival.

>>93521271
Finches were 36-52

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>>93521269
>tfw nowadays we're lucky if the trade does well after a critically acclaimed run gets cancelled early

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LOL
O
L

>>93521261
>it's a great thing she chose to get raped instead of fucking that guy's shit up in the spot, this really is so empowering
I'm sort of feminist but I'll never understand this line of thought, it's like intentionally asking people to question the validities of your philosophies.

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>>93521319
Shade, the Changing Girl at least isn't cancelled at #12, which means that the first trade will at least come out before it inevitably wraps up.

>>93521164
>c or d listers could have 40+ issue long runs
Coates is weeping his side book only got 3 issues.

>>93520921
Real reason: gotta advertise the new Booster Gold and Outsiders books that started at the same time

In-universe reason: both have ass-accentuating costumes with that exposed hair mask thing she finds irresistible.

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>>93521254
>Is this the fate that awaits all who fail to move the needle on floppies? Even if they clean up in trade?

Still got the idea that MB is a great trade seller despite [citation needed] because an Amazon bump is worthless

>>93521305
>b-but you see, comics aren't dying
>they're as strong as they've been since post bubble burst

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>>93521333
that's salting the earth to make a point

>>93521351
marvel's really gotta cut down on the whole "giving side books to characters who can support one title ok" thing

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>>93521373
IMO the key is that there are so many options, now. so very many comics competing for your $$$

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>>93521417

>>93521417
It doesn't help that comics have gotten a lot more expensive while also being incredibly decompressed.

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>>93521438

>>93521164
Weird to think that that's still only like four or so years.

Today it feels like you get maybe like four full stories per year.

Ya know, the double shipping thing kind of helps with this a little. Rucka was only on Wondie a year and he still got 25 issues, though admittedly his style makes it feel like not all that much happened.

I honestly hope double shipping becomes the norm and people start to write with a longer run in mind like a lot of these great books from the 80's did.

>>93521403
I just don't get why they're so intent on publishing 3000 books at once. It's not even like their mini series or titles that turn into series become balls to walls experimental since they're not worried about someone being turned off. They start boring and end boring.

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>>93521441
There are fewer crammed talking heads pages but there are more overly spread out talking heads pages

>>93521417
yeah that's definitely true, just looking at Marvel and DC alone there's what, 200+ unique titles including mainline and imprints? Add in the dozens of other publishers and it's no wonder that sales are so low when they're divided up among a thousand titles

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>>93521496
>for you

>>93521474
There is also the bad optics of constantly canceling series, rather than minis ending at their natural point or getting extended to twelve issues.

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>>93521507
Download a scan of Previews some time and marvel at the shit we don't even get on our radar

>>93521345
I do consider myself a feminist so it makes no goddamn sense why that comic didn't get more feminists assblasted over that last issue. But, I guess the rise of "pop feminism" and Cain's "harassment" caused both comic writers and critics to conveniently forget that last issue.

>>93521534
I know I was pretty stunned once when I popped into an Image solicit thread and there was like 80 books, maybe half of which I'd ever even heard of

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>>93521543
There were some fans really upset by what it meant, on feminist grounds, and she blocked most of them and then the harassment made it so you had to support her and the book unquestioningly

>>93521555
Lion Forge trying to launch seven connected books into this market is an interesting WTF

>>93521522
I completely understand that mini's are not advertised as mini's at Marvel because people would rather wait to pick up a trade for the miniseries, but at this point I just assume that every non-A-List title that Marvel puts out is a 5-6 issue miniseries.

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>>93521603
me too

live a poem

>>93521348
Y'know, I get that they wanetd to wait until they could release the first trade of the line Doom patrol despite the delays, but Shade debuted second yet got it's trade released last. Classic case of DC's trade department being retarded and trying to sabotage something.

>>93521373
I really do think it's the lack of overall genre variety that's killing this industry. Sure, there are some non-cape titles out there, but nobody's heard of them.

And here it comes, the age old excuse of "only superhero books sell". Where is the hard proof of this? There simply isn't enough actual data to support this claim, since there hasn't been a high profile non-cape book since... well Trouble, I suppose. And Trouble failed, not because it was a romance story, but because it fucking sucked. Holy SHIT did Trouble suck.

It's the same shit that happens with other mediums. Execs are utterly terrified of doing anything even slightly different and will only branch out for the sake of copying the rare unique gem that by some miracle got published. Comics have this problem to an even more severe degree due to being smaller and more insular.

>>93521603
Which I think is part of why Marvel's are in the shitter.

>>93521543
Yeah there should've been some articles or blogpost somewhere from women's perspective that called her shit out, instead that inconvenient timed controversy made it so people just could not question her at all.

>>93521438
Starman's the original transracial!!

>>93521555
Not the company's fault you're an uninformed pleb.

>>93521603
Shit, that reminds me, I need to check out that final issue of the "not formally cancelled" Elektra "ongoing" series that came out today.

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>>93521646
that Frank story the other week, wew

>>93521441
I really liked to do a study on when exactly decompression started to become the norm.

>>93521615

the Marvel NOW Foolkiller trade hit today

Oh yeah, events.
Did anyone read Edge of the Venomverse? The store I go to was given a bunch of overshipped copies, so I imagine it is going to hit high on the sales lists at the end of the month.

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>>93521687
Send it to someone come /co/hristmas

>>93521627
Desu I honestly believe I'd DC and Marvel's objective is to publish 75 monthlies and you know that market doesn't actually support it, why not publish books of other genre. Maybe you end up finding new audience or maybe it fails but how is it any different from what you are currently doing.
I seriously would love to see some very abstract books like Sol or comedy or romance using some one off IP you've possessed for 60 years.

>>93521683
Bendis, Millar and Ellis made it popular but it didn't start to get really bad until around 2010.

>>93521588
With the backlash and Marvel not telling her about the Eisners, I doubt she'll come back to comics.

>>93521683
I blame Bendis.

>>93521648
>Image defense force assemble

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>>93521744
oh shit it's THIS asshole!

>>93521779
Not an argument, try again, this time without the strawmanning.

>>93521746
I mean... DC tries but their imprints are largely ignored by the general reader and in the past few years when they tried it in the main line they were hated and now people love Blandbirth.

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>>93521800

>>93521757
Hopefully.

>>93521754
I don't know why Ellis is always brought up in these conversations. Sure his Authority was substance less splash pages galore but even those stories ended within 4 issues and his Planetary was 9ne shots with overarching narrative. It's shit like Ultimates or Benis's Ultimate universe work that popularized it.

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>>93521829
thanks for reading

Let's keep going with this for now, back, umm...Saturday! If I'm sober because Gezeichneten webcast is in the afternoon and I can't listen to Schreker sober

>>93521754
I recall that Johns said that he left Marvel because they were forcing him to decompress his writing and that was back in 03-04.

>>93521800

>this guy

i am so fucking mad. and i dont remember him in robinsons

mostly just out of how was capt atom so good

>>93521757
YA shitters should never have been shown an entry door in the industry, we already have too many hacks of our own.

>>93521779
A bit off-topic but I've always been fascinated where Stephenson's hateboner for the Big 2 came from.

>>93521889
We can dump on Cain for a shitty retcon but she's from thrillers, not YA

>>93519368
he ends quite bad in robinson´ starman if you take into consideration that the new starman (jack) bangs his sister and he is replace/erased by the previous starman (gavyn)

>>93521403
If they had waited till AFTER the BP movie trailer to launch it they'd probably have sold way better. That's when it makes sense to create a new book, when there's an increased demand, not while demand is in the middle of diminishing.

I can understand the idea behind stealth minis, but you need to at least communicate to the person writing the damn thing that that's what it is.

>>93521417
And as Didio smartly said, appealing to non-comics readers is more of an uphill battle than ever before because there are so many forms of instant entertainment. A TV show has a big budget, takes two hours to watch, and then you get another episode next week; a comic book is made by a handful of people, takes ten minutes to read and then you have to wait a whole month to get the next part? If you want to compete with this stuff, you have to really offer up high quality, just having a character from a movie on the cover doesn't cut it anymore.

>>93521822
Vertigo got replaced by Image and all the other publishers so not much they can do there

>>93521911
I don't know the guy's background but people like McFarlane and Kirkman really hate big 2 so maybe from there.
I find it hypocritical that just a while ago Stephenson was on every website and was quoted for shitting on big 2's gimmicky practice and what do you know, Image does them too, his argument would probably be "It's ok when we do it."

>>93521746
There's seriously no harm in trying something different, not in this industry. We've come to the point where comics have been reduced to IP farms for other mediums, so I can pretty confidently state that publishers have absolutely nothing to lose by trying out different genres.

Especially, as you said, with IPs they already own. A bunch of C or D listers are stuck in limbo, without anything to do. Why not retool some of those properties into other genres, to give a fresh spin on them? Booster Gold, for example, could easily be refitted to more of an adventure format. Bring back the Haunted Tank for military drama. Plastic Man could be more of a straightforward comedy character. Forget trying to fit Black Widow into the Avengers, and let Natasha revel in being a goddamn spy.

You don't even have to make up anything new, bur for fucks sake, you gotta provide at least SOME variety.

>>93521975
Vertigo and Image are entirely different animals, this meme needs to stop.
Problem with Vertigo is that it became too mainstream for the hipsters but remained too obscure for the average comic book buyer. Add tot he fact that they've changed the group editor 4 times in the last 5 years and the fact that they want immediate results instead of planning ahead and you get shit like right now where they cancel;ed titles without having replacements planned and are stuck now with, what, 2 comics in the entire line?

>>93521463
Wow, fucking SJW DC replacing cherished character Starman with a minority in only the second issue

>>93522029
>Plastic Man could be more of a straightforward comedy character.
I'd rather they bring him back to his pulpy and noir sensibilities. Like seriously launch a plastic man mini with noir setting and see where you can go. If you really want to keep his comedy shit make it a parody of noir narratives. There's so much actual experimentation that could be done.

>>93521853
Thanks for posting as always, Storyteller.

This book is just okay. It's always odd to come across this kind of stuff that evokes no strong feeling one way or the other, because there's simply nothing to say. It's just okay.

>>93522060
I think they have two miniseries going either now, or in a month or so: Savage Things (8 issues), and an American Way sequel

>>93522029
>Booster Gold, for example
The industry doesn't have enough writers that are smart enough to do time travel well. Also, Jurgens is considered super important at the company so Booster is a very protected character and you probably need approval from him to do anything with him.
>Bring back the Haunted Tank for military drama.
They tried that a few years back. Nobody cared.
>Plastic Man could be more of a straightforward comedy character.
Agreed but DC is obsessed with "MUHH POWERLEVELS" and making Plastic Man into a generic shapeshifting quipster that is "so strong, bro!"
>Forget trying to fit Black Widow into the Avengers, and let Natasha revel in being a goddamn spy.
Didn't they JUST do this?

>>93522149
Oh. Then it's three because there's also Astro City.

>>93521911
I think it's just self promotion, as far as I know he has zero history with any company outside of Image. Got his start after telling Liefled to his face that Youngblood was a mess at a con or something, so Liefled hired him to be his personal scripter, ended up as the editor of Extreme and writing most of the line, Liefeld left the company ( before they could fire him) and Stephenson stayed on at Image working under Jim Valentino who was publisher. After Valentino stepped down Erik Larsen took the job, and when he stepped down Stephenson got the job

>>93522172
Snyder's going to write more American Vampire.

>>93522234
Eventually, but nothing's been announced and it's been a while since his last American Vampire stuff.

>>93520653
improper af

>>93521966
Well see, the continued prevalence of decompression makes the idea of making comics more of an instant entertainment impossible. If this industry wants to compete with more accessible media, it needs to return to done-in-ones as the standard.

>>93522098
Exactly. There's tons of shit you could do with these characters outside the superhero format. Let's face it, a lot of these characters don't need to be superheroes in the traditional sense, and for many, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Like why the fuck is Martian Manhunter a superhero? J'onn is a cop, he ought to be more of a detective type character. Give that fucker a trench coat, dammit!

>>93522172
>>93522234
King also has the Sheriff sequel coming eventually

I know they delayed that for Mister Miracle but I'm wondering since Doyle moved over to Vertigo if they didn't also hold it back to include it as part of another Vertigo relaunch later along with American Vampire

>>93522335
>I know they delayed that for Mister Miracle but I'm wondering since Doyle moved over to Vertigo if they didn't also hold it back to include it as part of another Vertigo relaunch later along with American Vampire
Quite possible.

>>93521746
It's one of those old "damned if you do" scenarios. The industry is stuck in the superhero ghetto. And I love superheroes of course, but I think comics as a medium have potential to be gigantic and yet they're still this niche little hobby for superhero fans and a handful of indiefags.

So the only way to get out of the ghetto is to publish non-capes, but then nobody buys the non-capes, so you have to choose between catering to the niche audience or catering to people who aren't going to give you the time of day because of how heavily associated with that niche market you are.

I mean, indies have come a long way and even DC has done lots to very, very slowly diversify, trying to make books that can appeal both to their traditional fans and people who might otherwise not care about superheroes, but it's a slow process.

I really, truly think comics can be huge as a medium, I mean to an extent they're just illustrated books, but most people just view them as superhero things for nerds.

>>93522335
>eventually
It'll start in 2019 at the earliest.

>>93522060
>Problem with Vertigo is that it became too mainstream for the hipsters but remained too obscure for the average comic book buyer

Also it lost all of the talent. I mean you even have Scot Snyder going over to Image to make books and not at DC's own creator owned imprint, that's not a good look from the outside.

>>93522153
>They tried that a few years back. Nobody cared.
Well, I never said the industry was the only entity at fault. Audiences could stand to broaden their horizons a bit.

>>93522390
> still this niche little hobby for superhero fans

The first step is finding good ways to sell to people outside of comic book shops. First Second and other publishers that focus on younger audiences have it right going for schools and libraries.

>>93522427
Vertigo was always more about scouting talent though. I'd say they did well enough the past few years. Got Gilbert Hernandez to write something for them, found Tom King, that dude that wrote red Thorn was pretty promising too. Writers nowadays just aren't what they used to be.

>>93519204
Got distracted playing Shadowrun.

Is thread dead?
I read nothing today.

>>93519448
>I'm glad they announced another KFC comic

By Bedard again?

>>93522602
Most likely although I don't know if it's 100% confirmed

>>93519475
>Hating based Dmitri

Whoever this is, I welcome their death.

>>93519574
Old ads are sorely missed when digital reissues instead of scans.

>>93520136
You are basically describing Gavril from Generation Lost there, and he was pretty great, too bad he got Flashpointed.

>>93520230
His run on Exiles wasn't great, but seems like it compared to Claremont's, and recycled existing Marvel realities in a pretty fun way.

His Teen Titans was pretty bad, but when isn't Titans bad.

>>93520751
>Ooh, just found people mad about Mockingbird in SE #5

Meaning what? I haven't read jack. She a Nazi, in keeping with her new sociopathic murderess characterization?

>>93520921
Booster Gold would have been starting right about this time, and he was, as a character, DEEP into marketing himself.

You probably couldn't turn on a TV in universe without him shilling some thing or another.

>>93521036
How, how could anyone believe a woman who would cuckold her husband and murder her lover to cover it up (falsely claiming rape as excuse) could possibly ever side with a totalitarian police state?

>>93521174
My Stern-fu is kinda weak. Did he pack other things with subtle pseudo incest?

So this made me think, we know there are superheroes that work for the government, we know there are even superheroes who work for the military, but what superheroes actually work specifically for law enforcement?

I think that's Savage Dragon's shtick, isn't it?

>>93524153
Savage Dragon, Worst Flash and that's about all I can think of.

>>93524248
Not counting Barry because he's still a vigilante and only does stuff in secret to help the cops behind the scene.

I mean superheroes who have public identities and are officially policemen.

I feel like there must be more but all I can think of is Savage Dragon.

>>93524309
closest thing would be something like the science police I guess

>>93523403

don't think so.

stern's underappreciated

>>93524309
Top 10 is good if you want a fix of this.

>>93524309
I wonder if this would count. I have never read it though, or tracked it down. It is by Milligan:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/extremist/4050-6845/
>This series tells the story of 'The Extremist'; the strong-arm law enforcement for a secret society of high society sexual deviants

>>93525216
OK, this sounds amazing. Police for sexual deviants? Finally someone is looking out for MY interests.