HAKAI

File: 1496253254155.gif (598KB, 400x217px) Image search: [Google]

598KB, 400x217px

i dont think it would work man. its over. let the meme die my friend

>>93499038
Hakai works. It's nice to finally have definitive closure though.

>>93498968
I don't like Goku using Hakai. It seems really out of character for him to use it. I don't mind him knowing how to use it, but a character like Goku would probably hate being able to erase everything.

File: IMG_1824.jpg (224KB, 838x669px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 838x669px

An ability posessed a god that can erase people from existance? It's not like Superman has survived something like that before... Pic very much related

But putting that argument aside. Goku using Hakai wasn't in the anime so him using it isn't even technically canon.

>>93499466
The manga writer's pretty bad.

>>93499504
Hakai can erase anything. It's not a shitty beam it's a pulse that comes from inside the target. Also that issue you posted comes from before one of the nine million reboots that happened so it's not canon.

>>93499553
The Omega Beams function the same way as Hakai. Just because they look different doesn't mean that they are different. Furthermore, the Superman from this comic is the modern Superman so this feat is still considered canon.

>>93498968
So he brought Superman back to life?

File: you're not fooling anyone.jpg (28KB, 510x510px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 510x510px

>>93499553
a) the Hakai is literally identical in function to the omega effect, except the OE has more uses

b) that supes is the current one

>co idiots get trolled again by troll idiots on co

i should not be surprised

>>93500090
>>93500116
They are different. Hakai can destroy anything. Omega Beam can't therefore they aren't the same. Quod erat demonstrandum.

File: 753.jpg (186KB, 674x1024px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 674x1024px

>Out of the way, short stuff, real power coming through

Does Goku have a soul made of rubber and gum? Does Superman? Yeah, that's what I thought.

>>93500190
>Gets killed by Hakai

>>93500181
>Hakai can destroy anything.

>db fags cry about no limits
>except when they "think" they have it

Hypocrisy I name thee

Supes could tank it.

>>93500222
>Supes can tank it
Lmao nope. Maybe in your imagination

>>93500222
"Hakai" is literally God just saying you don't exist anymore

>>93500256
>literally God

>implying that means literally anything

Gods are weak

>Implying Goku would ever use Hakai in a fight

Zamasu is a special situation since the entire universe is on the line but Goku would never one shot an openent he wants to fight like that. He even refused to use a Senzu Bean against Cell.

>>93500266
Gods in Super are stronger than gods in DC since they have Hakai and all.

File: 1498498030845.jpg (39KB, 330x495px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 330x495px

As much as I love both characters, I gotta admit that Superman is Superior in both strength and power

File: cb16af3f3c8117463db858ddf5e3382fea609dc1_hq.jpg (24KB, 463x350px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 463x350px

>>93500342
>Gods in Super are stronger than gods in DC

Okay, I'm out. You're just being silly.

File: 1497691483660.jpg (22KB, 317x267px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 317x267px

>>93500342
Anon, please. At least TRY and make your bullshit slightly believable.

>>93500388
Whatever helps you save face. Going
>Ugh your argument is ridiculous ugh just ugh
Without substantiation is more of reddit thing. You'd probably be more at home there.

File: superman_and_goku_by_feniiku-d64narm.jpg (757KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

757KB, 1000x1000px

Why would Goku use Hakai? Let them be allies.

>>93500415
Anon at least TRY to debate. People aren't just going to agree with you out of hand. You have to actually prove things you realize.

File: 46e.jpg (35KB, 580x435px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 580x435px

>>93500445
>debate
>with the pleb whose done nothing but repeat a single word over and over

Sure m9.

>>93500469
>Nothing
Explain how anything the gods in DC can do rival the power of hakai. You can't which is why your next post will be more deflection
>Ugh just agree with me why do I actually have to prove things. You're just a pleb if you don't blindly circle jerk with me
Pathetic.

File: aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg (108KB, 300x391px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 300x391px

>this thread

aside from autism why do we have these threads?

also unless goku was dealing with dictator superman (red son, mastermen, injustice, justice lords) he would have no reason to use it at all

File: D8CRtMS.jpg (39KB, 374x374px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 374x374px

>>93500342
Nigga how u gonna hakai a concept?

Some DC 'gods' are on an entirely different level to anything DB has shown yet.

Kinda like how superman is on a higher on than goku.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfy-FAK9lPQ

Why do people care about Goku vs Superman so much? Do you really want your favorite to be the most overpowered and thus have less interesting obstacles? This hakai wrinkle is going to be really dumb unless they write a limitation on Goku using it.

>>93500689
even then Goku's Fighting Autism would make him save it until he had his fill of fighting

>>93500872
But they can't Hakai. All those concepts have physical embodiements which can be defeated.
>>93500920
>Superman has never let his guard down.

>>93500190
That moment when Superman is a better dad than Goku.

File: better than beerus.jpg (80KB, 476x364px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 476x364px

>>93500957
>But they can't Hakai

But anon, they can.

>>93500984
And has Superman beaten him? Nope. This is about Goku vs Superman not Goku vs Whatever Comic Book Character You Can Scrounge Up In A Desperate Attempt To Win A Debate That We're Not Even Having. Also he can't instantly destroy anything in existence with a hand motion. There are some things he can't destroy.

File: 4bb3cf38f5e045b903ba5df8076dee1e.jpg (117KB, 511x641px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 511x641px

>>93500190
>Goku is 5'9

Will manlets ever learn?

File: manhattan-murders.jpg (215KB, 863x460px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 863x460px

>But they can't Hakai

But anon, The current Main God of the man dc Universe can.

>>93501161
And has Superman ever fought him? No? Then why bring it up
Also
>Only the most powerful god in the entire continuity can do what weaker gods in Dragonball can do
Woah really made me think

>>93501084
How tall is Krillin then?

File: fred fuckstone.png (676KB, 765x574px) Image search: [Google]

676KB, 765x574px

We ALL know in light of this. DC will have to write some bullshit that will make Supes "immune to destruction" or something stupid.

File: doomsday-clock-header.jpg (20KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 640x360px

>>93501191
what is doomsday clock and the entire point of dc rebirth

>>93501237
>Using something that hasn't happened yet for his argument
Lmao.

>>93501275
> Being this Retarded
Lmao

>>93501294
>Pointing out you're wrong makes me retarded
Woah

>>93501201
151cm, so 5 feet tall. He's drawn like a midget half the time though, especially in Super. In case you want to know, Vegeta is 5'5, as tall as Bulma (despite being drawn taller for some reason).

File: 1498341335038.jpg (94KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1280x720px

>>93500388
>>93500415
>>93500872
You ningens don't get it. There is no arguing with powerlevelfags. Even if there was some cosmic entity so far beyond the realm of understanding that you couldn't even interact with it, Gokufags will immediately claim that /theirguy/ can beat them the moment that he achieves Super Saiyan 8.5 Gorillian and Three Quarters.

>>93501424
>Strawmanning because he has no argument
You realize that Hakai changes everything right?

>>93501454
You're right that I have no argument. I didn't make an argument. The point is that there's no sense to arguing because you'll believe what you want to, even if there's evidence to the contrary.

Alright, I'll take the bait. Mxyzptlk erased Superdad from existence, replacing him with N52 Superman and Lois. But with the power of love, not only did Superdad come back, but he also brought back his wife AND rewrote reality so that he and N52 Supes had always been one and the same.

So yeah, Superman can tank Hakai.

>>93501424
>>93501454
Also we're arguing Goku vs Superman not Goku vs Whatever DC Character You Think Can Beat Him

Pleas stop trying to shift the argument okay?

>>93501485
How convenient for you. Nice "evidence to the contrary" by the way. Keep riding that high horse.

>>93501490
>Mxyzptlk can be reversed
>Hakai can't be reversed
Woah damn you really got me there. I'm sure Superman can tank it

>>93501454
not him but as i said earlier it would depends on the context of the fight if he used it or not.

this is like arguing batman vs superman, sure supes could just throw batman into the sun without so much as a second thought but unless one of them went rogue it wouldn't happen batgod not withstanding.

>>93501538
Zamasu literally reversed the effects of Hakai the moment that he waggled Mai in front of Goku's face.

>>93501689
He makes a new half of his body. He doesn't bring the old one back.

>>93501718
You mean he regenerated. Which literally undid the damage Hakai does. If it were irreversible then he would only be all right regardless of his deity status, as his entire left side was "erased from existence".

>>93501777
It was erased but he made a new one. He didn't remake the old one. The old one is gone forever.

>>93501795

Good lord you're a dumbass. Hakai erased his entire left side. Not old left side, not current left side, not future left side. his left side, full stop. The mere fact that he just grew himself a new half means that Hakai can be undone.

>>93501909
Regeneration is not the same thing as reversing hakai. I don't understand why you struggle with this concept. The old left side got erased. If it wasn't for the hostage situation Zamasu would have been erased completely. He used Mai so he was able to make a new left half.

Don't respond to me until you pass high school.

If Frieza can survive hakai, then Superman can survive it.

>>93501965
Who the fuck said reversing hakai? I said the effects of Hakai can be reversed. If the fucking effects of Hakai were irreversible, then Zamasu would never be able to grow himself a new left side, and would have to resort to fucking cybernetics like Frieza did, because existence deemed that he can no longer have his biological left side, as Hakai erases something from existence. But him being alright didn't even last a whole chapter.

>>93501995
Frieza survived a portable version from a non-GoD try again. Also
>Anime
>Canon

>>93502049
He didn't reverse hakai because his old left side is gone forever. He made a new one. The old one didn't come back.

>>93502067
Except that he shouldn't have been able to grow a new one at all because Hakai erased his left side.

>Zeno vs Supes

>>93502089
That's not how that works. If I deleted a lizards tail with Hakai, it could still grow a new tail in it's place.

>>93502109
Then Hakai is a shit skill that doesn't erase things from existence any more than a stupid energy blast.

>>93502131
But it does because it works on anything no matter how powerful they are, which is why Goku can now beat Superman.

>>93502145
That's like saying Krillin can beat Frieza because he sliced his tail with a move.

And as stated above, Superman tanks that sort of shit before he takes his morning dump.

>>93502179
>Tanks that sort of shit
No he doesn't. Omega Beams are not the same thing as Hakai because they can't delete everything in existence like Hakai can. Krillin could have beaten Frieza if he didn't dodge at the last second by the way.

>>93501084
I wanna see more of this crew too bad dbz ruin it for better or for worse

>>93501219

DC doesn't give a fuck about internet fights

>>93502201
You already said that Hakai doesn't really delete shit at all, it's just another shit move that happens to affect any target like Krillins dumbass disc.

>>93502231
But it does delete things. Like all of Zamasu before he blocked with Mai forcing Goku to stop at the last second.

>>93498968
>ITT: Toyocucks that think the manga is canon
Sure thing, pal

>>93502262

I just don't get why Superman triggers Goku fans so much. Popeye would fuck them both up

>>93501538
Anon that's not how it works at all. New 52 Superman and Superdad are different entities entirely. Superdad was erased from existence. When Jon power of loved the shit out of them Superdad overwrote New 52 Superman and merged their histories, creating an entirely new past for himself. To use your excuses for hakai: he grew himself a new past.

>>93499518
Toeifag retards are the worst.

>>93502262
>The one with less involvement from Toriyama is canon
Okay
>>93502309
It was also a one time thing brought on by a unique power boost that wouldn't normally happen. He wasn't entirely erased from existence unlike with Hakai. Nice try though

>>93502344
It isn't a one time thing though.

He broke through the reality shifts brought on by Emperor Joker, Eluded the changes of Flashpoint (admittedly by being collected by Telos), tanked Omega beams (of which known effects are either killing the shit out of you or tosses you around time), and overwrote his own history.

>>93502499
Okay. None of those killed him permanently across all timelines like Hakai does though. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

File: IMG_1802.jpg (2MB, 761x5706px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 761x5706px

>>93502298
You're damn right he can.

And this is coming from a Supermanfag

>>93502517
Hakai didn't kill Zamasu either, and that's with him literally being half the man he is.

>>93502517
That's what the Omega Effect does and Superman tanks that shit every time he fights Darkseid.

Did he make a copy of Superman or something?

File: hulkignored.gif (53KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 768x1024px

either way, Hulk is still a scrub that deserves to be ignored by the heros who can actually string words together

>>93502571
He wasn't completely Hakai'd. That's why he had to use Mai, because it would have worked if it had completed
>>93502574
>Lying
Lmao

>>93502633
Doesn't matter. Without proper medical attention you die from being vivisected like that.

>>93502665
Not instantly and not if you are a super powerful super durable immortal god. Maybe a weakling like Superman would.

File: 1497927309213.jpg (86KB, 506x270px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 506x270px

how can superman even compete with pic related?
he'll just comeback stronger after death every time

Superman Thought Robot

>>93502692
Superman does not have access to the robot except in only one circumstance ever, Superman didn't spend a billion years in the Sun except for only one circumstance ever as well. Whenever you argue power levels with Superman fans though, they always cobble together a version of Superman that absolutely doesn't exist, based on very situational power ups. They just take the feats of a hundred different Superman versions and pretend it all molds together and that he can do all of this innately.

>>93502681
He isn't super durable though, because he can't tank dumb shit like a sword.

File: Supes_finally_learns.....jpg (44KB, 540x533px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 540x533px

>>93498968

Let's be honest, Superman clearly outclasses Goku.

HOWEVER...

>>93502709
>Blatantly ignoring what actually happened just so you can "win" a dumb internet argument
Lmao

>>93502692
not Superman. its Superman+Ultraman+Plot Device

>>93502740
What actually happened was Trunks came and performed his "conjoined twin separation procedure" with a sword, and Dumbassu got cleft in twain by it because in the Dragonball universe durability only applies when you face forward.

>>93502633
>Lying

It's true though.

>>93502792
No.
>>93502787
Yes that has been established before. Superman still gets killed by Hakai though so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

>>93502817
Superman's far more durable than Dumbassu and like stated above, tanks all sorts of "I destroy you lelel" blasts before he takes his morning shits.

>>93502332
Hardly a Toeifag. Super was unwatchable up until this arc. Even so, it seems Toyotaro is only good for deviantart-tier fanservicable moments

File: file.png (821KB, 525x800px) Image search: [Google]

821KB, 525x800px

>>93502848
None of them are on par with hakai though. Also please stop pretending Superman also hasn't been weaker because of plot before.

File: IMG_1825.jpg (143KB, 750x765px) Image search: [Google]

143KB, 750x765px

>>93502817
Yes.

>>93502902
>Wipes you from all timelines and dimensions forever
No

Goku can demonstrably be oneshot by laser beams, even in SSBlue, as in RoF. Superman has laser vision.

End of discussion.

>>93502922
Only when off guard and now that he has hakai he can end the fight before it even starts.

>>93502875
Superman's been weakened due to plot, but never
"haha I kill you with laser pointer because you weren't looking" weak. Besides, thanks to him being the hero of his story, it doesn't matter how weak he gets, he still fucking tanks whats thrown at him.

Death via Doomsday? Fuck that shit it's just a nap time now.
The entire universe rewritten by Joker? Fuck that I'm Superman.
An evil Superman from another universe? So what if we're both Superman I'm still the hero so I still beat you.

>>93502941
Except Goku is a retard fight nut so the fight will always start. Pretty moronic of you to whine when Superman fans make use of one-off instances like the Superman Thought Robot or Superman Prime yet here you are trying to pull shit that will NEVER happen like Goku ending a fight before it starts.

File: file.png (1MB, 619x960px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 619x960px

>>93502987
I know. I'm just saying Goku is officially stronger than Superman now. I don't care that in a friendly fight Superman would win. In a fight to the death Goku would win. Besides Superman struggles to carry a single gunship. Almost as weak as getting gimped by a laser pointer while he isn't looking :^)

>>93503019
>I'm just saying Goku is officially stronger than Superman now

Come back when Goku stops dying to laser pointers.

>>93503019
>gimped by a laser pointer while he isn't looking
You mean like Goku?

>>93503036
>>93503053
Come back when Superman can survive a Hakai. You ever heard of a glass cannon? Probably not. It won't stop you from making a retarded response though.

File: f63.jpg (41KB, 396x382px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 396x382px

>>93503019
>I'm just saying Goku is officially stronger than Superman now.
>officially

Didn't know that a retards head headcanon was what counted for "official" when it comes to Dragon Ball and DC.

Plus, superman is stronger by feats. And faster. And smarter.

>>93503072

He literally does that shit all the damn time. Omega beams, Imperiex' blasts, Myxzptlk rewriting reality, flashpoint, Brainiac's blasts, etc. etc.

>>93503094
>Stronger by feats
>And faster
I wasn't aware DC headcannon was official now
>>93503095
None of those are on par with Hakai. Sorry Superkiddie

File: 1498244785016.png (1MB, 599x1364px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 599x1364px

>>93503072
>Come back when Superman can survive a Hakai
Ok im back

>>93503114
Epic

>>93503108
You're right. Hakai is the equivalent of a light breeze to the hurricanes that those attacks are.

>>93503108
>DC headcannon
nigga it's literally things from printed comics that make him stronger.

also, there's only two n's in headcanon. But what else would you expect from a ret/a/rd.

>>93503132
Whatever helps anon.

File: 765.jpg (65KB, 431x450px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 431x450px

>hakai
>unbeatable and can destroy ANYTHING

Frieza says hi.

>>93503133
>It's literally things from printed comics
I'm sure it's not just you extrapolating. Also when you begin new sentences, you use a capital letter. I shouldn't expect a in/co/mpetent to understand that though.

>>93503162
>A portable much much much much weaker version of hakai used by a non god of destruction that looks and works completely different from a normal hakai from the non canon anime
Okay kid

File: 1494352441716.png (214KB, 448x450px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 448x450px

>>93503163
>I'm sure it's not just you extrapolating.

>moved an infinite amount of weight more than once
>broke through infinite dimensions
>flew trillions of times light speed
>tanked universes ending

Whatever helps you sleep at night, weeb.

>non god of destruction

But he is a god of destruction. What the literal fuck are you on about?

>>93503149
It really is though.

>caster has to be point blank from the target
>can be interrupted
>can be cancelled
>can be reversed
>slow enough that Dumbassu has enough time to change facial expressions and make a wormhole to grab a hostage.

File: 1429889376239.jpg (55KB, 392x412px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 392x412px

>>93503163
>I'm sure it's not just you extrapolating

>dbfag crying about people extrapolating

Oh I am laffin. That other guy was right when he called you a hypocrite.

>>93503196
See
>>93502708

>>93503225
those feats weren't the thought robot.

You really showed me.

>>93503205
>Can be reversed
No
All the others apply to other attacks that have hurt Superman as well even though they aren't as strong as the hakai
>>93503215
>I have no arguments so I'll just greentext and call you a hypocrite
I accept your concession
>>93503236
Most were one time things cobbled together from many different versions of Superman though. Nice try you disingenous retard.

>>93503242
>Most were one time things cobbled together from many different versions of Superman though. Nice try you disingenous retard.

Nope. Every single one was post crisis. Nice going, keep showing us JUST how much of a pleb you truly are, geekdom.

>>93503242
>No

Oh I'm sorry, lemme retract that and replace with "can be fucking rendered moot because you can just regrow whatever the fuck you lost", because somehow that doesn't count as reversing its effects.

>>93503271
Okay. They were still one time things that wouldn't normally happen brought about by power ups and cobbled together from more than one Superman. Much better
>>93503277
>Superman can regenerate instantly
Cringe

>>93503295
Doesn't need to when he tanks stronger stuff.

>>93503295
a) I already told you it wasn't the thought robot, dumbass. How awful is your memory?

b) No powerups either.

Keep spouting bullshit. I have truth on my side, every post you make just reaffirms wrong you are and how hard Gayku would lose.

File: goku fans BTFO beyond hope.png (213KB, 1101x1316px) Image search: [Google]

213KB, 1101x1316px

>>93503295
>They were still one time things that wouldn't normally happen brought about by power ups and cobbled together from more than one Superman.

How can one person be THIS wrong?

>>93503316
No attack that Superman has "tanked" has the capability to erase him across all timelines.
>>93503329
>Gayku
Are you 12? Of course you are you're a Superman "The most strongest guy evar!!!" fan. Anyway Superman is not normally capable of doing those things. That might work on someone who doesn't read comics on /a/ but you won't trick anyone who actually does so why bother?

File: 38d.jpg (50KB, 600x604px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 600x604px

>this thread
>OP makes a statement
>people bring out evidence to counter said statement
>an anon (maybe OP) gets butthurt and basically goes "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" as a counter argument

i know this is a bait thread but seriously gokufags are the cancer that killed dragonball.

at least when i had this conversation with my brother over this he put more effort in making the case for goku beating superman and he's a vegetafag.

>>93503365
>Anyway Superman is not normally capable of doing those things.

Sure he is. He's done them more than a few times and across multiple writers and stories.

Yeah, but who has the better wife?

>>93503373
OP here. I don't even read comics. I don't watch Super either. I just read the /a/ threads. I would like to hear your brothers' arguments though.
>>93503387
Honest question. How can you read this? Doesn't it get boring after awhile?

File: Why superman is a better character than goku.png (351KB, 906x476px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 906x476px

>>93503418
>Honest question. How can you read this? Doesn't it get boring after awhile?

No, because Superman isn't about punching things really hard, that's just what he can do, it's not who he is and there are better places to draw tension and conflict from than "however will I achieve a new form this time".

You'd know this if you're only exposure to the character wasn't from versus matches and those awful Snyder films.

File: 1496256405748.jpg (26KB, 400x462px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 400x462px

>>93503418
>Honest question. How can you read this? Doesn't it get boring after awhile?

Son, that's one of the stupidest thing's I've ever read. People like you who debate things without knowing both sides are the worst kind of people.

>>93498968
Maybe if he actually knew that and even then do you really think Goku is the type to pull that shit ever? Dude loves fighting too much to pull the "INSTANT WIN" button

maybe if he trains with Grand Priest

>>93503418
>Keeps arguing about how Goku can beat Superman
>Yet somehow when Superman is strong enough to win it means Superman is boring

Why isn't Goku boring if he's as strong as Gokufans like to claim he is, then?

>>93503418
>How can you read this? Doesn't it get boring?

Because Superman stories have never been about the fights anon. They have always been about a single man's goal of changing the world by inspiring others to do good.

>>93503470
If that's the case then why does it matter whether or not he beats Goku? That's not what his character is about right? That's not why people like him right? And yet the majority of Superman fans only care about how strong he is in comparison to other characters and will argue for 140 posts about why their character can beat another character.
>>93503491
It's funny
>>93503496
The Goku show aka Dragonball GT is boring and everyone hates it. In Dragonball and Z Goku is usually outclassed by his opponent.

>>93503508
>If that's the case then why does it matter whether or not he beats Goku? That's not what his character is about right?

because idiots like to bring it up and also just because they might not be the focal point of his character, that doesn't mean his powers don't fucking exist, you mongoloid. What kind of pants on head kind of retard are you?

Anyone beats anyone else if you want them to.

These are popularity contests because the characters aren't real.

File: 098.png (225KB, 511x296px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 511x296px

>wah wah supermans overpowered. He's so boring.

>but goku could totally beat him and he's the bestest character ever

>>93503418
for starters he's not a superman fan and aside from the snippets of super's stupidy i told him about all his knowledge of dragonball ends at cell and extends a little into buu.

his main arguement was how fights in DBZ were usually depicted vs how DC depicts superman's fights.

in DBZ fights were faster than the human eye and powerful enough to destroy city/island/planet or alter a landscape completely while superman's fights are slower & while strong they're not as strong as a how a fight with frieza or cell is depicted.

also he was under the notion that ki was magic or at least should be magic.

>>93503530
But why do you care so much? And why do people get so heated and angry about it if ultimately it's not important? If you really valued his character beyond being the strongest why would you even come into this thread if power level isn't why you read it?

>>93503572
Superman's story and Dragonball's story are representative of different messages and I think that people should understand what each one means

>>93503600
>But why do you care so much?

Because I'm also a Goku fan. It's not always 'us' vs 'them'.

>And why do people get so heated and angry about it if ultimately it's not important?

Because people are wrong on the internet. How bloody new are you?

>>93503600
Because some faggot brings up animu stuff on /co/ instead of on /a/ where it belongs or in the containment thread that is the toonami general.

>>93503585
>superman's fights are slower & while strong they're not as strong
Oh anon you don't know shit about some of DC's fights.

>>93503633
He's talking about his normalfag brother anon.

>>93503572
Nobody thinks Goku is the best character ever.

>>93503674
You've obviously not seen comments on DB youtube videos.

Or during episode streams.

>>93502720
>narudo

Please do us a favor and promptly off yourself.

>>93503689
Okay fine. Nobody except 12 year olds think Goku is the best character ever. And to be fair, plenty of 12 year olds like Superman just because he's "da strongest eva" so that's not really a good metric to judge by.

>>93502720
The only chance Sasuke has against Superman if he manages to get a genjutsu off against him

>>93503633
>Goku
Gets killed by measly laser shot.
Get's taken by surprise DURING fights all the time.
Strongest kii blasts, at best, destroy a planet yet are shot into the sun all the time with little to no effect.
His strongest and closest rival, in terms of strength, literally had to power up and struggle to lift, and fail, a thousand ton robot.
No feats or substantial evidence, other than hearsay, to back up claims he's at "universal level".

>Superman
Has tanked two supernovas that only singed his clothes and succeeded in mildly pissing him off.
Lifted the weight of the earth for 5 days only with mild sweat.
Was able to keep track of 2 speedsters running 14x+ faster than the speed of light at the same time.
Turned into a god and created his own universes.
Hundreds of pages of evidence and scientific backing.

Yea anon, the evidence totally supports that Goku is in Supes' league... /sarcasm

>>93500181
Frieza and Goku tanked the Hakai energy in a recent ep.

>>93503633
that was basically his argument though.

like i said he's not really a fan of the character to begin with and most of what he knows about the character is from the DCAU which were shown to be a slower pace compared to something like goku vs cell which was basically them blinking all over the place

>>93503732
But then Supes has been able to take mental attacks from the strongest beings in the universe. He'd probably shake it off and even if he managed to buy enough time to break free of it what can Sauce possibly do to hurt him whilehe's out of it?

>>93503744
A small amount of it.

>>93503742
>True
>True
>To be fair, We know Goku is at least past solar system level at this point
>He wasn't at full power also doesn't have access to Kaioken meaning he will always be weaker
>True

>>93503742
>Was able to keep track of 2 speedsters running 14x+ faster than the speed of light at the same time.

Where's this 14x light speed meme come from? Stop posting it.

Fucks sake, Green Lanterns and Wonder Woman are capable of going thousands of times that.

Let alone Superman or the Flashes.

>>93503780
It was when Flash was outrunning death with Wally. I don't have the crop I think someone posted a few days ago.

File: 1458182469225.jpg (54KB, 612x574px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 612x574px

>>93498968
>it's another 'people care way too much about how powerful two people from two completely different universes and media are' episode
You can't truthfully compare the two, so getting invested is asinine

>>93503772
>>He wasn't at full power also doesn't have access to Kaioken meaning he will always be weaker

K sure. 1000 x 10 for kaioken. Fuck, lets go Kaioken 100. Still doesn't approach one percent of one percent of a percent of what Superman has lifted.

That's the part that makes me laugh the most at goku fags. Sure lifting strength doesn't equal punching power at a 1 to 1 ratio, but it's still applicable to a degree.

Goku has never been hit by anything that physically strong. An all out punch from Superman would likely take his head clean off.

>>93503770
Didn't look like a small amount.

>>93500941
only reason he tried it was as a last-ditch effort to kill an immortal villain, and it didn't even work

current theory is Goku gonna instead find a way to absorb hakai energy to unlock a new form, similar to how he absorbed the spirit bomb in the Super 13 movie

>>93503826
Universe whatever's god lent a small amount of it. But yes, that's what a small amount is.

>>93503772
>To be fair, We know Goku is at least past solar system level at this point
There's absolutely no evidence to support that. He can destroy a planet, probably, but can he survive in space? Doubtful. Have we seen him having an attack that can wipe out a solar system in one go? Nope. Like I say, hearsay and exaggerations to hype up a fight.

>He wasn't at full power also doesn't have access to Kaioken meaning he will always be weaker

Okay so he can lift 14k tons last I checked earth weighs 13,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 give or take a few hundred million tons. Oh yea Supes also lifted. Fucking. Infinity.

>>93503839
He said he was granting some hakai energy. He didn't specify the quantity of the energy.

Freiza's survival shocked and scared that god of Destruction. So...

>>93503825
Keep in mind I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, I just want to discuss Dragonball. Vegeta was in SSJ1 which has a multiplier of x50 to base strength. He couldn't lift a one thousand ton robot but just barely. SSJ2 is twice as strong as SSJ1 and SSJ3 is 4x as strong as SSJ1 meaning it's a 400x multiplier to base power. SSGB is an even more powerful form than SSJ3 and Goku has Kaiyoken x10 on top of that. I just think he might be a little stronger than some people give him credit for
>>93503850
Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha at the end of the story arc was stated to be powerful enough to wipe out the Solar System. Goku is way way way stronger than Super Perfect Cell at this point. Therefore Goku is at least Solar System Buster Level.

File: boss-rabbit-dragon-ball-making-mochi-cakes-on-the-moon.png (59KB, 500x232px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 500x232px

>>93503850
>He can destroy a planet, probably, but can he survive in space?
Put a Rabbit on the Moon. And before you call "FILLER!" because that's every superfag's favorite rebuttal, it was in the Manga.

>>93503772
Oh yea Superman also has perfect recall, superspeed learning and knows hundreds martial arts so anything Goku throws at him he'd instantly learn, compensate for and counter. Teleportation is useless if he doesn't have the power, reflexes and speed to land anything worthwhile. Superman also has self imposed limiters that instinctively release as a fight drags on, every time Goku gets stronger Superman matches that strength just enough to overcome it.

>>93503906
*200x
Shit I'm tired

>>93503906

>Keep in mind I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong, I just want to discuss Dragonball. Vegeta was in SSJ1 which has a multiplier of x50 to base strength. He couldn't lift a one thousand ton robot but just barely. SSJ2 is twice as strong as SSJ1 and SSJ3 is 4x as strong as SSJ1 meaning it's a 400x multiplier to base power. SSGB is an even more powerful form than SSJ3 and Goku has Kaiyoken x10 on top of that. I just think he might be a little stronger than some people give him credit for

Post proof of those numbers, please because I call headcannon bullshit. Give me a chapter number, anything.

>Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha at the end of the story arc was stated to be powerful enough to wipe out the Solar System. Goku is way way way stronger than Super Perfect Cell at this point.
>Cell's Kamehameha at the end of the story arc was stated to be powerful enough to wipe out the Solar System.
>stated to be powerful enough to wipe out the Solar System.
>stated
Oh great, more hearsay.

>>93503910
A human can survive in space for a few minutes if they hold their breath and close their eyes, ever see GotG?

File: file.png (376KB, 474x768px) Image search: [Google]

376KB, 474x768px

>>93503986

>>93503899
Well, yeah, it should shock anybody here because normally hakai energy, even a little, destroys anything.

It's kinda silly imho that frieza was able to escape it but we knew the time was coming when goku and his nemesis would be reaching those levels.

>>93503768
He'd probably figure a way out of Sasuke's genjutsu but it would take a long damn time for Superman to figure that out

>>93503986
>Give me a chapter number, anything.
I've read the daihai books and every manga chapter, no such numbers exist anon for all we know ssj give 5x, 2 gives 10x etc; etc;

>>93503906
>Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha could destroy a solar system

That was just Perfect Cell exaggerating his power to show off to everyone. Perfect Cell had no solar system destroying capabilities.

>>93499466
Toyble is a competent artist but he has absolutely no idea how to write a story.

>>93503986
>A human can survive in space for a few minutes if they hold their breath and close their eyes
There's been one known accidental exposure of a person to a full vacuum and surviving and it was perhaps 30 seconds. He passed out almost immediately. Most scientists agree that his survival was equal parts dumb luck and miracle. The last sensation Jim Leblanc recalls is the saliva on his tongue boiling.

https://www.spaceanswers.com/space-exploration/incredible-footage-of-a-nasa-test-subject-being-exposed-to-a-space-like-vacuum/

>>93503992
Hearsay, anon. Gohan matched his power and when they collided and he won literally nothing happened.

>>93504001
>long damn time
The strongest mental attacks that Clark has taken have taken him minutes to overcome and some of them were stated to be the most powerful in the universe.

File: file.png (128KB, 510x266px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 510x266px

>>93504019
Why would Cell lie? Vegeta in the Saiyan sage could destroy a planet and Cell was so far above that it's not even funny. Do you have a source he was lying?
>>93504006
>>93503986
Pic related

>>93503906
>I just think he might be a little stronger than some people give him credit for

Well considering that standard super saiyan vegeta was able to not only catch beerus off guard but also knock him back, I'd say I do agree with you, but it really can't be THAT much higher.

So ballpark range, 200,000 tons in SSJ3. Lets go 10-15x that for blue (which I highly doubt. But I'm highballing it).

2-3 million tons of lifting strength in blue.

>>93504019
this. He could probably take out one of the bigger planets, Saturn of Jupiter, but there's no way he was at solar system. Exaggerating for sure.

>>93503993
It was also kinda silly for frieza to be able to even fight blue goku, because "muh only gods something something god ki".

>>93503992
And I can destroy a bridge by punching it!

Doesn't mean I actually can.

>>93504054
>Why would Cell lie? Vegeta in the Saiyan sage could destroy a planet and Cell was so far above that it's not even funny. Do you have a source he was lying?

Because power scaling is nowhere near the degree all the DB youtubers like to say it is.

>>93504054
Again, >>93504053

>>93504055
>>93504066
Why does everyone think Cell is lying? Why would he even lie? Why does it matter to you so much if they can destory a solar system?
>>93504078
Because he focused it on killing Cell and not on the Solar System. They do that in Dragon Ball all the time. Cell said he had enough to destory the solar system not that he was trying to at that specific moment.

>>93504054
Let's assume for a minute that the power scaling is true, it's also been stated that 2nd stage and 3rd burn through their power rapidly so they can't hold it for long, Superman has been in fights that lasted hours to days without breaking a sweat. Does Goku have the same stamina? Doubtful.

>>93504111
Yeah especially Kaioken x10. He would only be able to use that for like a minute. SSJ2 doesn't burn through power though. It's basically a straight upgrade of SSJ1 in every way

>>93504102
He also said multiple times he was the strongest in the universe, that he was above everyone in terms of strength etc; again. No proof or evidence = exaggeration to hype the fight.

>>93504102
>Why would Cell lie

Because Perfect Cell has an over-inflated ego and it would be 100% in character for him to exaggerate his power.

>>93504132
In the instance of being the strongest, he was just wrong and it cost him. He underestimated his opponent. Very common trope brand soap.

>>93504132
He was at the time to his knowledge. That's not lying
>>93504138
>Be me
>Have an official manga page of Cell saying he could blow up the solar system
>Anon disagrees with me because...... and his evidence is...........
Name one time where Cell exaggerated his power.

>>93504148
And exaggerating their strength and power to hype a fight to hype a fight? Another common trope.

>>93504054
how powerful ki blasts are is really inconsistent
first it takes Frieza """5 minutes""" to blow up Namek in his final form
then he can destroy planet Vegeta with only the power from 1 finger in his first form in the Bardock movie

File: file.png (910KB, 561x854px) Image search: [Google]

910KB, 561x854px

>>93504169
Translation:
“Everything’s super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!”

“Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One’s personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell’s energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!”


Now go away.
>>93504183
It's said that Frieza subconsciously held back because he wanted to fight Goku

>>93504111
>Superman has been in fights that lasted hours to days without breaking a sweat. Does Goku have the same stamina? Doubtful.

You want stamina? Superman fought magical enemies in Valhalla for one thousand years. Constantly.

Also "Burter is the fastest being in the universe".

>>93504162
Remember when Cell said he was the strongest in the universe and then he was killed by someone stronger than him?

>>93504162
Okay. Again, it's hear-fucking-say. Manga constantly overhype fights by artificially raising stakes with hollow words, yet in the next fights the artificially stakes don't matter because the power scaling changes.

>>93504204
Ok.

>>93504169
While I have no stake in this fight, I don't think that was cell. He believed he was the best because up until goku and gohan and goku ass-pulled their way to victory with the hyperbolic time chamber, he WAS. He very much was the strongest there was on earth and it took a year of constant training at increased gravity for gohan and goku to catch up and goku still couldn't beat him.

Of course, cell was unaware of this asspull, because, to be honest, so was everyone else. The hyperbolic time chamber didn't exist in DBZ until the cell saga and was never mentioned.

Cell probably wasn't exaggerating.

>>93504195
>the pic
Post proof, show me Cell destroying a solar system with his blast. All we saw was hearsay, both "solar system destroying blasts" colliding and all that happened was minor damage to the environment.

>It's said that Frieza subconsciously held back because he wanted to fight Goku
Proof?

>>93504204
>yet in the next fights the artificially stakes don't matter because the power scaling changes.
This happens in every cartoon and comic and manga ever. Superman gets knocked out by a sewer lid. Or was it a gas explosion.

The thing is what you're watching isn't real, it's being written by many people who are very flawed and forget things. Lots of things. Try to enjoy it for what it is. If you expect flawless real world consistency you will find threads to pick at every turn and will find arguments all over. But that's just my smelly diarrhea opinion.

File: Why injustice Superman doesn't deserve the name.jpg (231KB, 950x1498px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 950x1498px

>>93504196
>You want stamina? Superman fought magical enemies in Valhalla for one thousand years. Constantly.

Don't forget the time that he fought every single one of his enemies gauntlet style without breaks and won. Then had Lois "killed" immediately afterward.

He still didn't break, physically or emotionally.

>>93504195
>It's said that Frieza subconsciously held back because he wanted to fight Goku
That's not it at all. Frieza held back to give himself time to escape.

>>93498968
.. but we clearly see that supes is cut in half and then regenerates?

How is that loosing? This is Cell all over again

>>93504288
>>93504195
kek lookit all that headcannon.

>>93500980
>That moment when Superman is a better dad than Goku.

That's every moment.
Krillin is a better dad than Goku.
Gohan is a better dad than Goku.
Piccolo is a better dad than Goku.
Even fucking VEGETA is a better dad than Goku.

>>93504260
>Superman gets knocked out by a sewer lid.

well to be fair the cartoon superman was crazy nerfed on purpose. The writers didn't want to have him be as strong as he should be, mostly because they're hacks with little imagination...and it would take away from the team aspect of the shows.

File: file.png (675KB, 795x1193px) Image search: [Google]

675KB, 795x1193px

>>93504254
I've already posted proof. The author says he can destroy the solar system, therefore, he can. People in DBZ focus their energy all the time. They were trying to destroy each other, not the planet. Or at least Gohan wasn't.
>>93504304
Kill yourself shitposter.

>>93504317
See I hate to say it but I usually prefer animated superman. the superman adventures were, well, great in my opinion. They were on par with the batman animated series. The sound direction, the music, the voice and the animation were so nice and gave a very nice air of subtlety to them that you just don't see anymore.

File: file.png (700KB, 795x1193px) Image search: [Google]

700KB, 795x1193px

>>93504304
>>93504334
Also before you post more retardation it's a combination of both reasons

>>93504352
I wasn't really complaining about any of that, the shows were genuinely great. Soun, music, acting talent and some wonderful stories.

They hang around in memory for a reason.

It doesn't take away from it in any way, but the writers themselves said that they couldn't write someone that strong well enough.

File: 1487169252070.jpg (138KB, 929x1280px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 929x1280px

>>93504409

>>93504334
>I've already posted proof. The author says he can destroy the solar system, therefore, he can. People in DBZ focus their energy all the time. They were trying to destroy each other, not the planet. Or at least Gohan wasn't.

Though I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the Frieza holding back thing.

Power scaling in manga is wonky at best, I personally need actual proof on the cell thing.

>>93504430
The author said so. Twice
>>93503992
>>93504195

>>93504409
>but the writers themselves said that they couldn't write someone that strong well enough.
Absolutely agree.
That's what I mean by subtlety. Not only is it easier to write, but by its own nature of being flawed does it present a much clearer image of the character and their abilities and danger feels more 'real' and gets the viewer more invested.

Kinda why a lot of people really prefer earlier DBZ arcs and Dragonball to what we have now. I mean, I don't HATE super. But it's pretty plainly missing something.

>>93504456
>something a boastful villain says and the author puts in a database are fact

Look, buddy, maybe Cell can toast the solar system. Use in-universe feats, not out-of-universe justification. Authors have a platform to establish canon, it's in the fucking story.

>>93504514
So on my side I have an official page from the manga and a page from the database overseen and confirmed canon by the author. On your side you have "my feelings say the author is wrong :(". Okay this is your last (you). Come back with something substantial instead of just feelings please. Before you respond with more retardation, think about this. Can the Flash think faster than an attosecond? Think carefully now.

>>93504305
>Vegeta
Willing to sacrifice himself for his son

>Goku
Calls Gohan's reluctance to fight "disappointing"

This is why Vegeta is better than Goku.

>>93500190
Wow, this picture literally illustrates how Superman is simply a better father than Goku would or could ever be.

>>93504844
That's like saying water is wet. EVERYONE in the Dragonball universe is a better father than Goku. Even Picollo, who is the reincarnation of the evil half of Kami, is a better father to Gohan than Goku ever was.

>>93504954
>Even Picollo, who is the reincarnation of the evil half of Kami, is a better father to Gohan than Goku ever was.
Not really no.
He was just a harsh master and after the initial saiyan saga training he didn't do much else with Gohan until Super.

>>93505045
He also volunteered to be the first to die again by asking to be the one revived and brought to Namek for the Frieza arc. It's not a hard stretch to believe that it was because of Gohan being there that he volunteered rather than an altruistic desire to save a people he had no knowledge of nor expressed any interest in bonding with, specially after they all got brought to Earth.

>>93498968
Frieza tanked hakai. Superman sure can too

File: 1456506-19571729.jpg (163KB, 507x800px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 507x800px

Yes, yes, well done Goku, well done Goku...
HOWEVER

>>93499466
HE WAS FIGHTING AN IMMORTAL AND LITERALLY HAD NO CHOICE YOU FUCKING RETARDS
>>93499518
>>93504021
Idiots.

>So this is the power of a Super Saiyan God. Heh....Impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djE_tkBACl4

>>93505630
>Frieza tanked hakai.
No he didn't. Hakai and the Sphere are two different techniques.

>>93503744
No they didn't.

The energy inherent to the station of being a God of Destruction is different from the Hakai attack. The Hakai attack is just straight up a deletion power. There is no protection from an Hakai attack, at least as far as we know for non-God of Destructions. Since we know it works fine on mortals and non-God of Destruction gods.

>>93505794
>calling anyone else idiots while defending something that comes out of nowhere
See, if Goku used it in the anime now it would be a little easier to justify because Goku was there to witness Zamasu get Hakai'd. In the manga though there's no lead up at all for it beyond the page where Goku said he had seen it which happens literally the page before he actually uses the technique.
He wasn't there to see Zamasu get Hakai'd, there was no flashback, the moment he talks about doesn't even have a panel during any of the three arcs the manga has currently gone through.

He just knows how to do it.

How can you defend that?

>>93506700
He saw it offscreen, not that hard to get you dumbass. He's been training with Beerus ever since BoG. Beerus expects him to become a GoD one day. Not hard to think he saw it while training with him, especially since BoG shows Beerus using Hakai on menial stuff, like destroying food.

>>93506664
>The energy inherent to the station of being a God of Destruction is different from the Hakai attack.

That's some juicy headcanon you've got there, friendo.

>>93506874
Hakai turns you slowly into particles that fly away in the wind.

Frieza and Goku tanked a big purple energy ball that is completely identical to the kind of energies that Beerus threw around when he was fighting Goku, when Goku and Vegeta were training on Beerus' planet and the energies that Beerus and Champa used when they fought each other.

>>93506925
see >>93506874

>>93506957
You can literally see it in the mango and the animu.

It's not headcanon.

>>93506850
>He saw it offscreen, not that hard to get you dumbass.
Are you being stupid on purpose?
"Happening offscreen" doesn't fix Toyble's shit writing. I mean this is a major technique reserved for the Gods and Goku can just pick it up like that.
Don't you think that would warrant some kind of foreshadowing or actually showing the reader when it happened?

>>93506986
>RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>93506850
>He's been training with Beerus ever since BoG
Beerus doesn't get involved in the training and after Whis taught them how to use God Ki he pretty much left it to Goku and Vegeta to spar with each other.
Have you actually read our watched Super?

>>93507198
>toybletards
>knowing shit about the series
Their entire argument is that it isn't bad writing because they can insert their headcanon in.