I'm glad this happened.

>>93495396
Get flayed alive.

>>93495396
I don't like you.

>>93495396
>Afterword by Stan Lee
The fuck did he even say?

>>93495427
>Now I get even more royalties from this book! Excelsior!

>>93495396
You sir, are the devil
>>93495427
Same thing he always says, random nonsensical praise for shit he stopped caring about

>>93495403
>>93495409
I have a feeling people will call me a troll, so let me elaborate:

While I don't think OMD was the best way to go about un-marrying Peter, I am glad the character was un-married. Anyone who thinks that Marvel hasn't wanted this for decades is simply dead wrong. It was very gratifying to have the 'traditional' Spidey back.

And no, I'm not Joe Quesada.

>>93495438
Kek

>>93495452

Basically no story told since required an unmarried Peter

>>93495452
What exactly is so bad about Peter being married and how does it prevent him from being "classic Spidey"? We all know why they did it, a return to status quo and its easier to write the same shit over

>>93495481
>Except all the stories involving Peter meeting new love interests and dealing with girl trouble, a staple of the character since his debut

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>>93495396
>halved asm's sales
>reverted a character almost back to square one
>ruined a great relationship
>basically a middle finger to toaa
>the devil wins and gets what he wants
>all to undo a marriage because it "made peter old" and doing a divorce wouldn't fix that
>pretty much took a dump on spider-girl by making obvious that it can never happen

It was editorially mandated suicide. The fact they allowed this comic that rivaled Batman in sales to sink this low and be so mediocre is beyond me.

>>93495544
So basically you want Spider-Man to be a harem anime in order for you to self-insert. Gotcha.

>>93495544
Ah yes, the same rehashed "can't let my partner find out I'm spidey #500". I was referring to the arcs as spidey

>>93495602
The fuck are you on about? I didn't say that means having multiple girls AT ONCE.

>Being married makes him too oooooold
>Being a Dr and a CEO is okay though.

>>93495534
It has nothing to do with 'writing the same shit over and over' and everything to do with Spider-Man as a marketable character.

Spider-Man is probably the most marketed fictional character in the world. Maybe Santa Claus has him beat. But he's up there. There are children in America right now that only know two words in the English language: Spider and Man. He is huge as a money maker. I work in a school, and let me tell you almost every classroom you'll go in has a half-dozen Spider-Man backpacks, lunchboxes, shirts, or shoes. It's even bigger when a new movie comes out.

Now, you'll notice that in virtually - if not every - other medium besides comics, Spider-Man is unmarried. This is because the character's 'default' is a student working for the Daily Bugle with all sorts of problems - the least of which usually isn't a string of problems tied to a female love interest.

Other characters deal with this too - for almost twenty years Adam West's portrayal of Batman was the default. It took a big-ass movie to change that into the dark, brooding hero we think of today.

>>93495673

The girl trouble was a crutch they could reuse for cheap drama. It got old, fast. It didn't help that they kept teasing MJ which added salt in the wound

>>93495770
Spider-Man being married fundamentally detracts from that marketable 'default' status. It ages him at least ten years, and it is not interesting to younger readers. A kid could go watch, say, the latest Spider-Man movie (TASM2) and read a comic where Spider-Man is married and there would be an element of confusion. Maybe it wouldn't last very long, maybe it would, but it would decrease the chances of that kid reading another Spider-Man comic.

Most superheroes aren't married for that very reason. It takes a certain aspect of their character and grinds it to a halt, along with all the other drawbacks I mentioned. Fuck, they gave Batman a kid and still didn't marry him. The only superhero who it seems to work for is Superman, and that's because Superman and Lois Lane has been a thing for almost eighty years.

And they STILL un-married him when New 52 came around.

The fact is, Spider-Man's marriage was a publicity stunt that, somehow, tied to the cartoon strip of the time. I guess it was popular back then, because that's the only reason why I'd see editorial thinking it would be okay - to match one up with the other. Who knows.

All I do know is that they have been trying to undo it ever since, and even if it took a mediocre ass story, I'm glad Joe Q had the balls to do it.

I thought the marriage was a bad idea, but the way they ended it is amongst the most laugahable things ever.
They should have just killed her. It was good enough for Gwen. Leaving him married would have been preferable, however.

Anyway, what ASM runs do you all like?
Lee/Conway era is my favorite although I like Micheliene (especially with Larsen) and Stern as well.

>>93495780
Well that 'cheap drama' has been a part of superhero comics since Action Comics #1.

There is no 'wound'. Not every comic story with MJ in it is there to mock the fact that you don't like OMD. It's insane to think that way.

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>>93495814

>>93495786
Why the fuck would you care about any of that? You aren't seeing any of the returns.

>>93495810
Damn, "The Death of Mary Jane" would've been fucking phenomenal in an age where status quo reigns supreme.

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>>93495786
Marriage worked great for Reed and Sue as well.

>>93495896
Do you really think OMIT was released just to mock the vast minority that wants the marriage back?

>>93495905
Because Spider-Man is my favorite fictional character of all time, and I want to see him continue be popular amongst a new generation.

>>93495917
Yeah, team books tend to handle it better because there's an assumption that the characters are going to share a book anyway. Hence all the X-related marriages.

>>93495941

If you remember the marketing, it was. People where PISSED

>>93495973
Remind me. I remember teases, but nothing that openly mocked the marriage or OMD or whatever.

Really, OMIT is a story that needed to be told.

Peter being married during 2001 to 2006 did not prevent the Raimi films from being successes. In fact, Spidey saw his biggest growth in popularity during the time he was married. And then there's Batman who has a goddamn kid, but that didn't make him less marketable. No one minded he was married, save the old fogeys with muh Spidey. And kids don't buy comics anymore.

>>93495996
>Peter being married during 2001 to 2006 did not prevent the Raimi films from being successes.
No shit, Sherlock, but think about that in reverse.

>And then there's Batman who has a goddamn kid, but that didn't make him less marketable.
And yet, still not married. Huh.

>And kids don't buy comics anymore.
It's cute that you think that. Even if kids don't buy as many comics anymore, they are still the obvious target of things that the comics guys hope will lead to them buying comics at some point in the future.

>>93495969
At age 8, I got into Spidey by playing the ps1 game, and he deliberately called MJ his wife. I've enjoyed the character since. Kids can like Spider-man with the marriage just fine. You're a retard.

>>93496025
>Still not married
Anon....

>>93495992

I don't have any examples, but for the most part it just referenced OMD a lot. There was no hint on the story, so most people who hadn't touched the comic since OMD thought they where undoing it. A lot of current readers thought it too. Instead they doubled down, and after it was over Breevort told everyone that angry readers generated more sales than apathetic ones. So yes, they like kicking the hive.

>>93496025
Ah, so you are retarded. That settles it.

>>93496073
>>93496073
Yeah, and how big of a role did his relationship with MJ play in that action game? My guess is, not much of one.

>>93496113
>You don't think a comic book writer would pull a fake-out on a marriage proposal...do ya?
Anon....

>>93496135
>Shit, I've ran out of things to say...better call this guy retarded. Should I mention one of his points and refute it? Hm...nah.

they should have never let them get married in the first place. but they did. with that being done, they should have thought of a much better way to separate them than making a deal with the Devil. but they didn't.

Even having done all that, in the immediate aftermath, i was OK with it. take Spidey in a new direction. Whatever.

But 10 years later and Peter Parker is one arc away from being in the exact same place in 2017 as he was in 2007. his character has not had any memorable stories that required a single Peter Parker in that time span (hell, he hasn't had any memorable stories period except maybe Spider Island).

basically Marvel said we can tell better stories with him single. 10 years later and we all know that's not true (how much of that is because Slott sucks is another issue though). The experiment failed. Given the venomous reaction, and how to this day 10 years later people still argue with fervor about the story, this has to go down as one of the worst moves a comic book has ever done.

>>93495770
>>93495786
...Fuck I can't prove you wrong. I actually kind of agree with you. Still, Spider-Man has been undeniably shit since OMD I believe. It has had consequences large enough that I'd prefer it if he were married.

But other than that, I agree with you somewhat.

>>93496141
>not much

It was basically the thrust for the secondary storyline involving Venom and the longest individual section.

>>93496214
I googled the dialogue for this game. The word 'wife' is said twice in one cutscene It's never said again.

>>93496193
Remember Kraven's Last Hunt? When are we going to have a Spidey story like that again?

>>93496187
There's no point in arguing further with an obvious bait

>>93496234
If he said it 5000 times, you'd just complain the marriage gets in the way. There's no winning with you. Either the marriage detracts from Spider-man or it's not necessary.

>>93495786
The New 52 unmarried literally everyone, that's why we had that shitshow over Batwoman that caused the creators to leave in a huff.

Amazing Spider-Man only selling 51k right now is all I need to know about how good of an idea OMD was.

>>93496293
My point is that the game writers obviously didn't worry too much about making Spider-Man's marriage a big element in their PS1 action game.

Anon seemed to imply that he was cool with Spider-Man being married, but that was an incredibly small portion of the game's plot. It's not comparable to your typical Spider-Man issue whose plot structure is radically different to a PS1 action game.

What marketability? Normies don't give a fuck about Spider-Man's marriage status.

>>93496395
They will when they decide their Spider-Man cartoon/movie/bedspread/birthday cake is pretty neat and they want to check out the comics that explore Peter's personal life in detail.

>>93496426
They won't care. They are not like you and I.

Why would they care?

>>93496477
>Why would someone care about the story of a book they bought?
Come on dude, think about what you're saying before you hit 'Post'.

>>93496539
No, why would they care if he was married? You're not looking at this from the right POV. They will not say "Spider-Man is married? He's ruined!" and stop buying Spider-Man related paraphernalia.

>We wanted to take Spidey back to his roots as an everyman hero.
>That's why we had him sell his daughter's soul to the devil in exchange for a secret identity.

>>93496615
No, it'll be more like 'This isn't like my Spider-Man movie/cartoon/light-up tennis shoes/coloring book!'

Couple that with the fact that most younger people aren't interested in stories about married couples. It makes the hero look older and, therefore, less relatable to the younger reader.

>>93496637
That's not even remotely what happened, Anon.

>>93496672
He sold his unborn daughter's future which is pretty much the same thing.

>>93496539
If what you say is true then they'd care more about how bad OMD was to Spider-Man's character than Spider-Man's marital status

>>93496704
OMD was like a month's worth of comics. Your typical comics newbie won't even know it exists. A marriage status quo stays with the book forever unless you tear off the band-aid (which they did).

>>93496652
They don't care about his personal problems at all. They care about him being Spider-Man.

>>93496748
I'm trying to wrap my mind around how absurd that is. Spider-Man, and all Marvel characters, are directly tied to their secret identity.

If you think all new readers 'don't care about his personal problems' then no one would stick with the book because Spider-Man's personal problems are what the book is about in the first place.

Believe it or not, kids like reading comics with good stories too - not just colorful superhero action.

>>93496804

So if they care about his personal problems then that means they want to see him sort through his problems. They want to see him learn from his problems. That means they want to see him grow.

Doesn't sound like they're gonna care that he's married.

>>93496939
You are making logical leaps.

A newer, younger reader wants to see Spider-Man solve problems. Superhero problems and secret identity problems. That's a given. Growing/learning from your problems is good, but that has nothing to do with getting married.

Marriage is not a problem, it's a status quo. You could write about Spidey's marriage problems, but does that sound like something a 12 year old wants to read?

Notice that Hulk, Batman, Iron Man, etc. have all 'learned from their problems' and still aren't married. You are desperately grasping for straws.

>>93497019
I forgot Hulk was married for a bit, but his wife died and then came back as a Red She-Hulk, and I think after that she died again, so I guess they didn't care for that marriage either. Whoops!

>>93497019
That's funny and would be cool if the marriage had flopped in 1987. too bad it didn't. So...

>>93497241
No one's talking about it's impact in 1987. OMD happened because the impact of the marriage was not good in the long run for all the reasons I've laid out in this thread.

>>93496804
>>93497019
Your argument would mean something if kids were complaining about Spider-Man being married.

>>93497336
The long run? The marriage lasted 20 years. that's an eternity in comics.

>>93495770
This is Joe Quesada, no doubt about it....Or at least one of the other fags who voted for it, possibly Slott.

>>93497401
Yeah, why weren't there more kids on /co/ from 1987 to 2007 complaining about a few comics they read?

>>93497401
>if kids were complaining about Spider-Man being married.

I'm 19, and I know some younger readers who think undoing the marriage was a shit decision.

>>93497108
Betty died because PAD was going through a divorce and killed Betty off because she was his ex-wife's favorite character. I don't remember how well Hulk comics did in sales after that, though.

>>93497426
Yes, and editorial has been trying to undo the marriage for the majority of that length of time.

>>93497474
I guess >>93497472 will deny it.

>>93497497
Marvel Editorial is fucking retarded. Don't use them as a good reason to do something.

>>93497536
My point was that though the marriage did last that long, it wasn't due to Marvel editorial wanting it to be there. It lasted that long because no one could think of a neat way to undo it. Joe Q tried, and he still fucked it up, though as I said before I am glad he finally bit the bullet.

>>93497571
Yes, look at where the Spider-man comics are now. In the drain both quality and sales wise.

Doesn't look like any of those kids who couldn't relate to a married Peter started reading the comics, my man.

>>93497571
They wanted to undo it for bullshit status quo reasons, which is retarded when most the fucking adaptations show him getting with MJ. At this point MJ endgame /is/ the status quo that is recognizable to normies no matter how much they deny it.

And yes, I know this is a shill from Marvel trying to stir up controversy for when they reveal it's undone in Marvel Legacy, but still.

>>93496652
>It makes the hero look older and, therefore, less relatable to the younger reader.

I heavily disagree on marriage making characters less relatable. What marriage changes is how the various readers relates to a character.

A 27 year old Peter Parker married to a 26/27 year old Mary Jane with a 6 year daughter named May is not someone who is unrealatatble. 27 year old super scientist Peter Parker with a multi-billion dollar company is unrealatable to most of the audience.

>>93497019
At the same time being single is a status quo. 27 year old single Peter Parker is not a 12 year old's power fantasy or someone they can really relate to. 15 year old student Peter or 21 year old college student Peter? Relatable as he is a student just like them.

If they really wanted Peter Parker to be relatable they would have done this:

Peter Parker (27) is married to MJ (27) with 6 year old May as their daughter. Peter has 2 jobs (Lab Assistant and Spider-Man) and MJ works as an Office Lady. Both would prefer to be able to pay the bills with Freelance Photography and Modeling which would allow them to spend more time with May.

Miles (15, Spectacular Spider-Man) and Gwen (17, Spider-Girl) are Peter's two proteges.

Readers would have 3 different ways to relate to Peter. Peter as them if they are old enough, Peter as hard working parent who wants to spend more time with them but can't due to responsibilities through May, and Peter as Mentor through Miles and Gwen.

>>93497571
And you being glad does not make it a good thing.

>>93495481
Superior Spider-Man. That's about it though.

>>93497629
Oh, please. ASM has been a top 20 comic every month so far this year, and I suspect it will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I agree, the book's slipping in terms of story but that has nothing to do with the marriage.

>Doesn't look like any of those kids who couldn't relate to a married Peter started reading the comics, my man.
You dumbass, the effects of OMD were not meant to be immediate. It was meant to sustain the character for another 20 or 30 years. Are you really going to tell me that younger readers have not been buying ASM because of OMD or some shit? That the entire audience of that comic - 100% of it - is made up of old farts like me? Give me a break.

>>93497641
See my two posts above for why that is not the end-all be-all reasoning behind OMD: >>93495770 >>93495786

>>93497759
>Superior Spider-Man. That's about it though.

Superior could have been done even with the marriage.

>>93497779
You lack a very fundamental reason why Spider-Man is as popular as he is now. He's popular because we've seen him grow from an edgy loner kid to a responsible adult who tries to make time for his wife. Kids don't give a shit about what you describe, when they see Spider-Man they see a funny super hero who makes jokes and don't think much past that. You're deluding yourself if you think kids get confused over that shit.

>>93497722
I was going to respond to this, but it devolved into fan-fiction.

>>93497019
I read Spider-Man comics when I was nine, and I thought it was cool that Spider-Man was married.

>>93497779
51k is great for any other comic. For the flagship ASM? That's abysmal. It literally just placed #27 last month.

>>93497902
This. My only exposure to Spider-Man as a kid was Spider-Man TAS, which features a married Spider-Man and nightmare fuel. Saying kids can't find Spider-Man relatable is literally the same thing as saying he's not relatable if he works because kids don't have jobs.

>>93497629
This would be the best answer about the topic right now.
You could argue the industry as a whole is in an all-time low, but Spiserman sales while strong compared to Marvel's lineup are getting lower.
As another anon said, Spiderman was in a direct competition with Batman for the top sales, and now what?
Batman has a kid, Superman has a kid and married (being his marriage much more iconic). Neither of them are in a slump, kids won't stop buying them just because they got kids or grow up and settle (for fuck's sake, being Starklite makes Peter much older than a fucking marriage); I guess just like 1987's kids didn't stop buying Spiderman

>>93495396
Nothing interesting came of it. Hell it ruined a lot of Peter's relationships: MJ, Norman, Harry, etc.

>>93497944
Also, not to mention, married Peter /sells/. Name the last time a non canon Marvel book sold as well as Renew Your Vows?

>B-B-But it only sold because of Spider-Man.

Bullshit, Spectacular flopped.

>>93497019
You're so right dude. I totally remember throwing away all my Superman comics as a kid because he was married to Lois when he wasn't in every other piece of media.
Oh wait, I didn't, because only autists like you with divorced parents would think this way

>>93497019
I read married Spider-man as a 12 year old and I loved that he was married. It set him apart from other heroes and he always had someone to support him. It only made me want to grow up to be more like him.

>>93497478
Comics writers are unbelievably petty, but PAD takes it to a new level.

>>93497998
erm, i thought ryv was tanking?

>>93497866
Jesus, you are either very stupid or trolling.

Spider-Man was popular before the marriage, during the marriage, and after the marriage. Him being married contributed literally nothing to that. I have never heard someone say they liked Spider-Man because he was 'the married super-hero' (I'm sure plenty of people will say that now, though). You attributing his popularity to that is both hilarious and wrong.

>Kids don't give a shit about what you describe, when they see Spider-Man they see a funny super hero who makes jokes and don't think much past that.
Again, you're claiming a kid doesn't care about half the story he's reading, which is ridiculous.

>>93497915
How is that OMD's fault?

>>93497944
They were married for one season, and I'm pretty sure they copped out at the end too with a 'she was a robot all along' retcon.

>>93498045
It's not doing well.

>>93498045
Nope, shit's selling better than Spider-Girl. It doesn't /extremely/ well for a non canon book.

>>93497998
>Bullshit, Spectacular flopped.

Too early to tell. At one store it didn't do well. And of course when the June charts are out, it'll defintely look like it sold well (because it was in Funko's Marvel box recently) but you'll have to wait for the second through fifth issues to see what the drops are like.

>>93495534
manchildren can't relate to him

>>93498070
does*

>>93497497
doesn't that mean anything to you?

the reason they couldn't do it was because it was popular and they couldn't get a story to stick.

it lasted because it was accepted for 20 years until Joe Q. put his foot down, not because fan reaction turned against it.

you can argue whether or not that was the right decision at the time (the story is and always will be one of the worst stories of all time, there is no argument there) but 10 years after the fact, there is no defending the move because they have not done anything new and interesting with ASM.

>>93495786
>kids get confused when they see the actual comics are different than movies/cartoons.

Underestimating and treating kids like they're retarded and can't handle anything is what made those powerful executives be completely out of touch with reality.

>Kids like EDM right so let's make Spidey turn into a DJ! No way can this fail

>>93498098
Something popular at the time does not mean it's healthy for the character's future. There is a reason most comic characters are not married.

I agree with you that ASM needs a new direction.

>>93498061
>Again, you're claiming a kid doesn't care about half the story he's reading, which is ridiculous.
No kid goes, "oh man this guy's married! I don't like that!!!!" Only kissless virgins do

>>93498070
that's not exactly a high bar though.

i like the story, i do. but it reeks of Marvel trying to have their cake and eat it too. heads they win, tails you lose -- if the book does well, they point to that as the fix to get a married Peter. if it flops, they point to that to show married Peter doesn't sell.

>>93497872
Fan-fiction is what most of Spider-Man's comics have already dissolved into pure because of the writers and editors.

>>93498061
>It's not doing well
Just like the rest of the Marvel lineup?
We are talking about an out of 616 Universe book that focus about an alternative to one of the biggest fuck ups in comics history.
And it's doing well for being non canon, for being the version of Spiderman they tried to eliminate and for being published by 2017 Marvel with a much more smaller push than other books that sink like rocks.

>>93498061
>Jesus, you are either very stupid or trolling.
I can say the same about you.

>Spider-Man was popular before the marriage, during the marriage, and after the marriage. Him being married contributed literally nothing to that. I have never heard someone say they liked Spider-Man because he was 'the married super-hero' (I'm sure plenty of people will say that now, though). You attributing his popularity to that is both hilarious and wrong.
You miss my point in the most autistic way possible. Going back on a turning point is his life is the most anti-Spider-Man thing you can do. He's the hero that grows up and deals with real shit normal people go through. Like terrible jobs, struggling to make payments, and yes, getting married.

>Again, you're claiming a kid doesn't care about half the story he's reading, which is ridiculous.
Kids don't read, they watch, and when they do watch they're more focused on action scenes than anything else.

>>93496200
Why? He's completely wrong. Peter struggling with everyday problems is what makes him compelling, not whether he's married or dating some literally who slut. JMS Spidey was married and consistently outsold everything else. Slott Spidey isn't and aside from Superior, has been down in the 60ks. And kids don't fucking read comic books nowadays anyways, an older audience does, an audience that has grown up and gotten married and has a whole new set of everyday problems. If "relatability" is the focus why the billionare CEO doctor bullshit? Why the clone shit? Why the Multiversal team up? Superior was unrelatable as fuck, but it was GOOD in a dumb blockbuster way.

>>93498142
but it wasn't just popular "at the time," it was popular for 20 years until it ended.

the fact that it lasted that long (and was only killed by mandate, not naturally) because it was well received (or just not cared about) means something to your argument that kids cannot accept married Spider-Man. 20 years is a few generations of readers, Anon.

>>93498142
>at the time

It was popular for 20 fucking years.

>>93498142
>Something popular at the time does not mean it's healthy for the character's future. There is a reason most comic characters are not married.

Not the one you are thinking of. The reason most comic characters are not married is because creative teams change so often that very few relationships can develop to the point were marriage is reasonable.

>>93498142
>Something popular at the time does not mean it's healthy for the character's future.

When it's been ten years later and people are still upset, to the point where mother fucking Horward Stern is making fun of you for it, then it's something that should've stick.

>>93497019
My first Spidey comic was them being married. I thought it was great. I hoped they'd have a kid. MJ is Peter's Lois at this point, kids would be put off if he WASN'T dating/married to her.

>>93495396

Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad. Marvel raped Spider-Man with OMD

>>93498116
You're misinterpreting my post. The fact of the matter is that someone who enjoys, say, Spider-Man 2 and wants to read a similar comic, will not find one in the Spider-Man comics being published at the time. They will internally say to themselves 'This is radically different in at least one aspect'. What's important is what happens next. Maybe they'll be cool with it and keep reading, but maybe they won't like that the comic is different from the movie so Marvel will lose a customer.

Joe Quesada was either very lucky or very wise to guess the superhero movie boom because what I'm talking about would only be increased tenfold with this new Spider-Man movie.

And yes, I know the current status quo has the same problem - the difference is that they can reverse that whenever they want. It's harder to do with a marriage.

>>93498271
>The fact of the matter is that someone who enjoys, say, Spider-Man 2 and wants to read a similar comic, will not find one in the Spider-Man comics being published at the time.

You know how we can tell you work for Marvel and are out of touch with the fan base?

I can't understand how people think a good and healthy marriage is bad thing.

Picked ASM 500 the other day and there's this brief scene of MJ making some tea and bringing it to Pete while he's in bed.

If that's not the comfiest thing I don't know what is. Much better than wacky dates and one night stands.

>>93498271
>The fact of the matter is that someone who enjoys, say, Spider-Man 2 and wants to read a similar comic, will not find one in the Spider-Man comics being published at the time. They will internally say to themselves 'This is radically different in at least one aspect'. What's important is what happens next. Maybe they'll be cool with it and keep reading, but maybe they won't like that the comic is different from the movie so Marvel will lose a customer.

You literally have no proof of this unless you actually work for Marvel.

>>93498316
And even then his premise is flawed.

> Going back on a turning point is his life is the most anti-Spider-Man thing you can do. He's the hero that grows up and deals with real shit normal people go through. Like terrible jobs, struggling to make payments, and yes, getting married.
Having a job and paying bills doesn't age a character ten years. Hell, Peter did all those things while he was in high school.

>Kids don't read, they watch, and when they do watch they're more focused on action scenes than anything else.
This is so fucking dumb I feel bad justifying it with a response. How dumb do you think kids are that they don't read comics? Or did you know there are these things called books, like prose novels, that are made for kids - that they read? Guess you learned something today - kids read, and often enjoy it!

>>93498293
Yeah, I disagree with you. So I must be a Marvel employee! Be right back, I'm going to call Joe Q himself to point at the screen and laugh at you.

>>93498316
Having common sense doesn't make you a Marvel employee. In fact, their present predicament seems to indicate otherwise.

>>93498271

Joe Quesada was either very lucky or very wise to guess the superhero movie boom because what I'm talking about would only be increased tenfold with this new Spider-Man movie

>tfw Quesada invented movie sinergy
Damn you Quesada, you ruined everything.

Also, in my opinion, Raimi movies are much more relatable to pre OMD Spider-Man comics than Homecoming is to current Spider-Man.
And let's not talk about how relatable ASM was to Superior.

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>>93498177
>He's completely wrong. Peter struggling with everyday problems is what makes him compelling, not whether he's married or dating some literally who slut.
This guy fucking gets it.

Spider-Man is about the human condition.
Peter is constantly sandwiched between keeping his personal life and identity in check with doing the right thing. Often they conflict between those and the villain(s) of the week.

"...with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!" Holds true in every sense for the better Spidey stories. Just look at the Marvel Adventures run. Peter is flawed, but he grows as a person. You see this massive shift from a cocky kid who's fumbling through his school days as a costumed dork to a young man who's much more seasoned and ready to face whatever shit's coming his way the day after.

Slott and Quesada never got it. They just assume that shitting on Peter was the entire premise of the series, where he gets fucked out of just about everything and learns nothing from it.

One More Day isn't bad because Peter traded his marriage for that old hag's life, or because it retconned so many events, but because Peter didn't grow or learn anything from the whole experience. He didn't become a better person, his character took a few hundred steps back and has been stuck their since.

>>93498271
>Joe Quesada was either very lucky or very wise to guess the superhero movie boom because what I'm talking about would only be increased tenfold with this new Spider-Man movie.
How about the fact Peter isn't a fucking highschooler? Or that he doesn't have some fat asian best friend? Or that MJ isn't black? Or the fact he isn't mentored by Tony Stark? Jesus fucking christ you retard. There's a million things different between the movies and the comics that could alienate new "readers", but the marriage is the real sticking point, huh?
And Spider-Man 2 had him start a relationship with MJ anyways you autist.

>>93498372
>Having a job and paying bills doesn't age a character ten years. Hell, Peter did all those things while he was in high school.

No, you're dancing around my point. You said the marriage was bad because kids can't relate to it. Kids can't relate to that either, so I guess we should get rid of that too by your logic. Well, we can't even go back to highschool, because kids can't relate to that either. Who's ready for Pre-School Spidey?

>This is so fucking dumb I feel bad justifying it with a response. How dumb do you think kids are that they don't read comics? Or did you know there are these things called books, like prose novels, that are made for kids - that they read? Guess you learned something today - kids read, and often enjoy it!

>He said in the year 2017

>>93497862
It probably would've ended earlier considering a married MJ would've noticed how weird "Peter" was acting.

>>93498416
No, you're a Marvel employee because you just used the same excuse they churn out every single goddamn time they make a decision people hate.

>>93498486
>One More Day isn't bad because Peter traded his marriage for that old hag's life, or because it retconned so many events, but because Peter didn't grow or learn anything from the whole experience. He didn't become a better person, his character took a few hundred steps back and has been stuck their since.
I've always thought this way about OMD and I'm happy to see more people who think the same way that it's not just about the marriage. Peter running away from all of his problems and wishing them away is not the Spider-Man anyone knows.

>>93498061
>How is that OMD's fault?
It decimated Spider-Man's sales line wide.

>>93497478
http://ew.com/article/2013/01/10/peter-david-the-incredible-hulk/

>I actually didn’t know I was going to be leaving The Incredible Hulk when I did go. What happened was that my editor at the time, Bobbie Chase (also now at DC, go figure) had suggested — when we were kicking around future plot directions — that I kill off the Hulk’s wife, Betty Banner. Betty had always been my wife’s favorite character and because of that I’d always sworn nothing bad would happen to her. But then my wife left me so that she could go off and do other things like, I dunno, not be married to me. On that basis, Betty’s safety measure was gone. When Bobbie suggested we plug her, I said, “Sure, why not?” So I killed her off.

> If I’d known that I’d be leaving the book the issue afterward, I’d never have killed off Betty

>>93498521
It could have lead into a more believable break up, maybe?
And by believable, I mean remembwred by both parties.

>>93498503
>He said in the year 2017

Kids and Young Adult fiction actually does really well because they often have decent access to it through school libraries.

>>93498574
>Punished Peter David

>>93498486
FUCKING THIS! Marvel is flat out /lying/ about them not knowing what else to do with the marriage because we never got to see Peter progress into another stage of life.

We never saw Peter and MJ wanting to try having another baby.

We never saw Peter struggling with the concept since his first child died.

We never saw Peter actually have a child that survives in canon.

We never saw her grow up and deal with some of the shit he did in canon.

We never saw a bad mistake she made that shakes up the lives of everyone in the family, (like maybe she gets addicted to crack or some shit and it sends her life on a downward spiral that Peter has to save his daughter from as Peter Parker).

Shit would have been awesome.

>>93498490
A relationship with MJ is not a marriage.

You are right in that all those things will be different, but it will also not be permanent. A character like Ned exists in the MU, right? He could show up. Iron Man could show up. These are just what-ifs, but my point being that a radical shift that is permanent (a marriage) is much different than Spider-Man missing a friend, or Iron Man not being in the comic or what have you.

By the way, Marvel editors have said they wished Peter was back in high school and Brevoort has said he wishes Peter had never graduated. I'm not sure about that, but it goes to show there's a lot Marvel wishes they could 'OMD' back. The marriage was the big one, though.

>>93498503
I said the marriage was bad because it interferes with the brand of the character. Kids 'relating' to a character isn't 100% of the sell. That should be obvious. But aging a character and marrying him creates a lot more distance in that regard than making him a billionaire or whatever. Re-read my posts above.

>>93498591
Yeah maybe something of a "I can't keep letting your superhero life get in the way"? But that's literally what made Mary Jane so good. Even when she left and came back during JMS's run she supported Peter 100% of the way. I can't see a break-up but I can see them taking some time off from each other just like they did during the JMS era.

>>93495770
Your point falls apart when you brought up Santa Claus, who is traditionally portrayed as a married man.

>>93498615
And are mandated to read because of curriculum. Guess what happens when they're out of school.

>>93498645
>spidey's daughter addicted to crack
And I am suddenly in favor of OMD.

>>93498622
To be fair he thought they were going to let it actually mean something and not as the first step back to the previous status quo.

>>93498645
>But aging a character and marrying him creates a lot more distance in that regard than making him a billionaire

Bullshit

>>93498645
>I said the marriage was bad because it interferes with the brand of the character.
It does the exact opposite. Case and point how well RYV sells despite being non-canon.

> But aging a character and marrying him creates a lot more distance in that regard

It doesn't though. How many kids loved Raimi Spider-Man 2? Probably all of them who watched it. How many kids felt distanced by it? Fucking none.

> regard than making him a billionaire or whatever.
Okay, now I know you're trolling.

>>93498647
I meant a break up during Superior, so a break up with Otto as Peter.
Just the mere thought of a scene in which MJ recognizes Peter is back again would have been a great ending to Superior
>>93498574
This is a fuck up, but he at least thinks that it was a mistake.
If I remember well Quesada was in a similar situation, but he thinks he did something great till this day.

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>>93498486
>One More Day isn't bad because Peter traded his marriage for that old hag's life, or because it retconned so many events, but because Peter didn't grow or learn anything from the whole experience. He didn't become a better person, his character took a few hundred steps back and has been stuck their since.

well said anon. here's hoping marvel gets their heads out of their asses

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>>93498645
>>But aging a character and marrying him creates a lot more distance in that regard than making him a billionaire

>>93498645
>You are right in that all those things will be different, but it will also not be permanent. A character like Ned exists in the MU, right? He could show up. Iron Man could show up. These are just what-ifs, but my point being that a radical shift that is permanent (a marriage) is much different than Spider-Man missing a friend, or Iron Man not being in the comic or what have you.
So, basically you're telling me you're a retarded /tv/fag who thinks the comics should match the movies? You'd rather Peter get a fat asian friend, get involved with Tony Stark, and go back to high-school? You don't even read Spider-Man, do you? I can't imagine anyone who does would have such a retarded opinion.
>Marvel editors have said they wished Peter was back in high school and Brevoort has said he wishes Peter had never graduated.
Peter fucking graduated high-school in his first year of publication.
>I said the marriage was bad because it interferes with the brand of the character. Kids 'relating' to a character isn't 100% of the sell. That should be obvious. But aging a character and marrying him creates a lot more distance in that regard than making him a billionaire or whatever. Re-read my posts above.
You're also underage, to boot. It might come as a shock to you, but most people are in relationships, and also have parents who are married!

>>93498668
Santa Claus isn't in a fifty-year old story serial either, so don't go there.

>>93498688
>>93498755
So here's the thing. No superhero comics are relatable in their entirety because superheroes are fantastic. This is why their secret identities usually rely on something 'cool' that kids can maybe look up to, if not relate to. The last surviving member of an alien race, a brilliant scientist, a super soldier, etc. Or, make him more like the reader - a Robin, a Peter Parker, etc.

Superheroes are not Mom and Dad. Superman is not an accountant or a factory worker. The Hulk isn't an insurance salesman. There comes a point where that fantastic element is more inspiring and 'relatable' (which is a weird word in this context) and the mundane becomes unrelatable because it's too distant from young readership.

A billionaire is cool, exciting, and interesting if written well. A married man, to a kid, is Dad, it's teacher, it's all the boring stuff that comes with adulthood. It's shit to think about when you're 30.

Changing from billionaire to normal poorfag again will require a bigger cosmic retcon than OMD.

It's literally impossible to make billionaire completely broke.

>>93498844
>So here's the thing. No superhero comics are relatable in their entirety because superheroes are fantastic. This is why their secret identities usually rely on something 'cool' that kids can maybe look up to, if not relate to. The last surviving member of an alien race, a brilliant scientist, a super soldier, etc. Or, make him more like the reader - a Robin, a Peter Parker, etc.

Are you implying getting married isn't something you should aspire to do?

>>93498831
>So, basically you're telling me you're a retarded /tv/fag who thinks the comics should match the movies? You'd rather Peter get a fat asian friend, get involved with Tony Stark, and go back to high-school? You don't even read Spider-Man, do you? I can't imagine anyone who does would have such a retarded opinion.
Settle down, Einstein. You missed that part where I said these are all 'what-if's'. I don't want those things to happen, I just said they could happen and they wouldn't have the permanence of a marriage.

>Peter fucking graduated high-school in his first year of publication.
That doesn't change what I said.

>You're also underage, to boot. It might come as a shock to you, but most people are in relationships, and also have parents who are married!
I don't even know what this has to do with what you quoted except that you wanted to say I was underage even though earlier I said I'd been reading the comic for decades.

>>93498844
Peter Parker dealt with being a broke college student in a shitty Queens apartment! But that's relatable to kids, while being married isn't? What a fucking joke

>>93498844
>superheroes are not Mom and Dad

Bullshit

>>93498879
When you're 10-12 years old, you probably aren't aspiring to get married.

>>93498874
You see that shit cloud over Peter?
It's gonna rain on him enough to fill 50 olympic pools.
Never underestimate the tools writers have to continuously shit on Peter.

Even if I like him go back to being part of the middle class

>>93498888
No one said that was relatable to kids. It's not, really, and it doesn't really approach the 'roots' of the character like OMD suggested, but it's also easily undoable - how many times did Peter end up back at Aunt May's working at the Bugle after that happened?

>>93498902
When you're 12 you like to see bare titties. Married Peter gets many scenes with half naked MJ. Better than showing Peter fucking a different girl every monthwhich by tne way, is less relatable to the average comic nerd than marrying your teenage neighbor friend.

>>93498844
>No superhero comics are relatable in their entirety because superheroes are fantastic.
So you've never read a Spider-Man comic before?

>This is why their secret identities usually rely on something 'cool' that kids can maybe look up to, if not relate to. The last surviving member of an alien race, a brilliant scientist, a super soldier, etc.

Being a member of an alien race and a super soldier isn't a secret identity dumbass.

>Or, make him more like the reader - a Robin, a Peter Parker, etc.
Kids don't read comics anymore.

>Superheroes are not Mom and Dad.
Some of them are.

>Superman is not an accountant or a factory worker.
No, he's a reporter. So thrilling.

>The Hulk isn't an insurance salesman.
No, he's a homeless junkie who rooms with his friends half the time because they no bully. How 'cool' and 'something kids can look up to'.

>There comes a point where that fantastic element is more inspiring and 'relatable' (which is a weird word in this context)
Because what you're saying is bullshit.

>and the mundane becomes unrelatable because it's too distant from young readership.
Again, kids don't read comics.

>A billionaire is cool, exciting, and interesting if written well
Goddammit, Slott, don't you have work to do?

>A married man, to a kid, is Dad, it's teacher, it's all the boring stuff that comes with adulthood.
....So a Spider-Man comic.

>>93498902
Nor are you aspiring to get a job, become a CEO.

>>93498902
Kids that age don't read comics. Also, that's bullshit and I can't believe you actually believe it unless you were a home schooled sheltered shit who believed cliches you saw in cartoons.

>>93498943
So you're implying the best direction to take Spider-Man is to make him a pre-schooler?

Which Marvel employee are you, OP?

>>93499019
This. At that age i considered Spider-Man the coolest hero ever but wouldn't read the comica because they were boring to me. One year later I picked a random Spidey annual on a whim and got hooked.

>>93498943
You're implying that being married is too unrelatable for kids to enjoy a reading Spider-Man. Nothing Peter goes through is fucking relatable to kids! Kids don't deal with paying rent, or going to college, or having trouble with dating, or working with a shitty boss. Neither can they relate to being an adult fuckup who has to live with his aunt!
The root of the matter is that you think OMD was good because it brought Peter back to being "traditional" spidey. Tell me, what is traditional Spider-Man to you? Because to me so far in this thread, you don't actually care about Spider-Man being traditional, the only thing you care about some kids not being alienated when they read Spider-Man for the first time.

>>93499074
It's Slott, it's pretty obvious by the way he's writing and how he described becoming a CEO was "cool, exciting, and well written".

>>93498965
>>93498965
Liking bare tits does not relate to wanting to get married. Do you honestly think most kids are sitting around thinking 'Boy, I can't wait to get married!'

Come on.

>>93498975
>So you've never read a Spider-Man comic before?
I have several hundred Spider-Man comics, all of which contain fantastic things. Like, you know, a guy who can swing on webs and climb on walls?

>Being a member of an alien race and a super soldier isn't a secret identity dumbass.
No, but it is the role their secret identities fulfill outside of the heroics.

>Kids don't read comics anymore.
Sure they do. And they did even moreso when the characters I mentioned were created.

>Some of them are.
Very, very few. And none that I can think of from their inception.

>No, he's a reporter. So thrilling.
A reporter who is also the last surviving member of a super secret alien race. Slightly more thrilling.

>No, he's a homeless junkie who rooms with his friends half the time because they no bully. How 'cool' and 'something kids can look up to'.
He's also a brilliant scientist - he fulfills that role far more than the one you described.

>Because what you're saying is bullshit.
So kids being inspired by the fantastic element in comics is bullshit?

>Again, kids don't read comics.
Again, many do.

>Goddammit, Slott, don't you have work to do?
Derp.

>....So a Spider-Man comic.
Spider-Man hasn't been a married man, teacher, or dad in many, many years hence why OMD happened in the first place.

>>93498998
>What is the difference between a married dude and a billionaire with tons of cool gadgets?

>>93499019
Lots of kids read comics. Also, I can't believe you spent your youth dreaming about getting married. Do you still have your hope chest, Anon?

>>93499101
Uh, no. I do not think current ASM is 'well written'. I've said multiple times in this thread that I think ASM is in need of a new direction and probably a new creative team. So yeah, totally Slott. Help me get fired from my mediocre comic, Anon!

>>93498844
>Superheroes are not Mom and Dad.

Bullshit.

Superman and/or Batman are who every kid believes their father to be and want to grow up to be.

>>93499161
>I now speak for how every kid in America perceives adult figured in their life!
Yeah, sure thing buddy.

>>93499108
>Lots of kids read comics.
No they don't. The only comics kids have available to them would be at a library, a place where less kids go every day, and the only comics stocked at a library are DC trades and manga volumes. Kids don't clamor for their parents to buy the newest issues. People who buy and follow modern comics are 18 or over.
And your point about kids caring about the personal life of the character is a load of shit. When kids read about superheroes, they read for the action. That's how its always been.

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>>93499108
>I have several hundred Spider-Man comics, all of which contain fantastic things. Like, you know, a guy who can swing on webs and climb on walls?
Notice how he said the most generic thing about it? It's because he actually has no shit about any of the stories. Aka, he's never read a damn comic in his life.

>No, but it is the role their secret identities fulfill outside of the heroics.
No, it's not, it's their origin story.

>Sure they do. And they did even moreso when the characters I mentioned were created.

They really don't. They just watch cartoons, this has been proven several times over.

>Very, very few. And none that I can think of from their inception.
Nigger, who gives a fuck about inception? Spider-Man is a character who grows.

>A reporter who is also the last surviving member of a super secret alien race. Slightly more thrilling.
Just like how Peter Parker is a husband who doubles as a super hero that preforms amazing feats.

>He's also a brilliant scientist - he fulfills that role far more than the one you described.
So does Peter Parker.

>So kids being inspired by the fantastic element in comics is bullshit?
Yeah, because they don't read comics.

>Again, many do.
Again, many don't. You also don't.

>Spider-Man hasn't been a married man, teacher, or dad in many, many years hence why OMD happened in the first place.
And fans are still pissed. Spider-Man isn't about what you're describing. Spider-Man is a hero for the everyman. He goes through the same shit normal people do, he grows up and enters stages of life, he matures and shouldn't be tied down by a status quo.

>>93499188
Well, you sure are speaking for what every kid is able to relate to.

>>93499108
>Also, I can't believe you spent your youth dreaming about getting married. Do you still have your hope chest, Anon?

No, but not all kids were autistic like you and knew they were going to grow up.

>>93499188
>Seriously implying kids don't look up to Superman and Batman.

>>93499212
> The only comics kids have available to them would be at a library, a place where less kids go every day, and the only comics stocked at a library are DC trades and manga volumes.
Well, I'm excited to tell you about these places called comics stores! They're these places where you can buy and/or order almost any new comic you want! They even - yep - sell these comics to kids!

>And your point about kids caring about the personal life of the character is a load of shit. When kids read about superheroes, they read for the action. That's how its always been.
Oh, fuck off. Me and my friends were just as interested in what Bruce, Peter, and Kyle were up to as we were what villains they were fighting that month. We payed for those comics with our own allowance money, so we cared about every page - action or not.

>>93499272
>Well, I'm excited to tell you about these places called comics stores! They're these places where you can buy and/or order almost any new comic you want! They even - yep - sell these comics to kids!

You've never been inside a comic shop in your life, but I can guarantee to you that kids don't go to them.

>Oh, fuck off. Me and my friends were just as interested in what Bruce, Peter, and Kyle were up to as we were what villains they were fighting that month.

You'd actually have to read a comic to be interested in that stuff.

>We payed for those comics with our own allowance money, so we cared about every page - action or not.
Sure you did.

>>93499188
>>I now speak for how every kid in America

That's exactly what you've been doing in this thread.

>>93499272
>Well, I'm excited to tell you about these places called comics stores! They're these places where you can buy and/or order almost any new comic you want! They even - yep - sell these comics to kids!
I work in one, dipshit. I rarely see any kids coming in to buy issues. This isn't the fucking 90s anymore.
>Oh, fuck off. Me and my friends were just as interested in what Bruce, Peter, and Kyle were up to as we were what villains they were fighting that month. We payed for those comics with our own allowance money, so we cared about every page - action or not.
There's a difference between teenagers, who actually can relate to characters, and kids, who you keep talking about.

He thinks kids these days act like how he did when he was a kid. That's how you know he's one of Marvel's out of touch employees.

>>93499092
>The root of the matter is that you think OMD was good because it brought Peter back to being "traditional" spidey. Tell me, what is traditional Spider-Man to you? Because to me so far in this thread, you don't actually care about Spider-Man being traditional, the only thing you care about some kids not being alienated when they read Spider-Man for the first time.
You dodged the question, autisto. What's traditional spidey to you? Apparently to you Spider-Man is some static character who can't change because it'd mean some little kid who picks up a comic wouldn't like them.

>>93499224
>Notice how he said the most generic thing about it? It's because he actually has no shit about any of the stories. Aka, he's never read a damn comic in his life.
Faggot, you claimed Spider-Man had no fantastic elements. The whole core of his character is fantastic.

>No, it's not, it's their origin story.
Yeah, Superman being the last survivor of Krypton and Cap being a super soldier NEVER come up outside of their origin. There has NEVER been a non-origin story about that element of their lives before.

>They really don't. They just watch cartoons, this has been proven several times over.
Oh yeah? Post three sources that 'prove' that.

>Nigger, who gives a fuck about inception? Spider-Man is a character who grows.
Most people on editorial give a fuck because it's usually the default outside media goes to.

>Just like how Peter Parker is a husband who doubles as a super hero that preforms amazing feats.
Not anymore he's not.

>And fans are still pissed. Spider-Man isn't about what you're describing. Spider-Man is a hero for the everyman. He goes through the same shit normal people do, he grows up and enters stages of life, he matures and shouldn't be tied down by a status quo.
Unless that status quo is marriage, right?

If you're going to regurgitate bullshit like 'You don't read comics' and 'Kids don't read comics - I have proof!' don't expect a response next time.

>>93499263
Looking up to them and interpreting them as your Dad are two wildly different things.


>>93499307
>You've never been inside a comic shop in your life, but I can guarantee to you that kids don't go to them.
Is this the default for this shit now? I disagree with you about a comic character, therefore I must *never* read comics? Come the fuck on. Try harder.

>>93499413
>'Kids don't read comics - I have proof!'
I do have proof, called working in a fucking comics shop you moist-bellied retard

>>93499328
>I work in one, dipshit. I rarely see any kids coming in to buy issues. This isn't the fucking 90s anymore.
I worked in one for about a year in 2015, and there were about sixty or so kids under 18 who had regular pull lists and many more who'd come in on their bikes or with their parents to buy issues. Maybe not huge stacks like an adult reader, and not as varied in their choices, but they were there and yes, Spider-Man was one of the most popular amongst kids.

>There's a difference between teenagers, who actually can relate to characters, and kids, who you keep talking about.
I was talking about me and my friends being, oh, maybe ten or so. We'd buy a copy of Batman, GL, and Spider-Man each and trade amongst each other.

>>93499413
>Faggot, you claimed Spider-Man had no fantastic elements. The whole core of his character is fantastic.
No I fucking didn't. And the very fact that you bring it up disproves your entire argument.

>Yeah, Superman being the last survivor of Krypton and Cap being a super soldier NEVER come up outside of their origin. There has NEVER been a non-origin story about that element of their lives before.

Yeah, Peter Parker being a radiated human with the potential to obliterate someone's face just by punching them NEVER comes up outside of his origin. There has NEVER been a non-origin story about that element of his life before.

>Oh yeah? Post three sources that 'prove' that.
Nigger, how about about the fact that all the kid oriented cape comics flop? How about the fact that cartoons get viewed more by children then the comics? How about the fact that most kids these days have I-pad apps to play with?

>Most people on editorial give a fuck because it's usually the default outside media goes to.
So the story should suffer because of muh status quo?

>Not anymore he's not.
What does that have to do with anything?

>Unless that status quo is marriage, right?
Marriage is a natural stage in life, IE, something Spider-Man is all about. I know growth is something that's hard to understand to a kiss less virgin who never left his mom's house.

>>93499272
>Well, I'm excited to tell you about these places called comics stores! They're these places where you can buy and/or order almost any new comic you want! They even - yep - sell these comics to kids!

Well, I'm sorry to tell you that most comic book stores cater to and have been catering to an aging clientele made up of mostly adult collectors for the past 30 years.

>>93499413
>Looking up to them and interpreting them as your Dad are two wildly different things.

Not really. To most children who interact regularly with them, their fathers are these super strong invincible beings who can solve pretty much every problem.

The cliche "My dad can beat up your dad" argument? That comes from that childhood belief.

>>93499413
>Is this the default for this shit now? I disagree with you about a comic character, therefore I must *never* read comics? Come the fuck on. Try harder.

No you've never read comics because of the fact that you have not once mentioned something that happened in OMD or anything outside of Spider-Man having super powers and apparently being married at one point.

>>93498486
Top tier post. Exactly what I think about Spider-Man and how Marvel treats him.
Whoever thinks Slott is a good writer, doesn't truly understand the character.

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>>93499453
>I worked in one for about a year in 2015, and there were about sixty or so kids under 18 who had regular pull lists and many more who'd come in on their bikes or with their parents to buy issues.

>about sixty or so kids

>about sixty

>sixty people going into a comic shop.

>>93499381
Still no answer to what traditional spidey is, probably because this guy doesn't read comics

>>93499453
So you were ten and you weren't bothered by the fact that Peter Parker was married?

>>93499612
Not sure why that's funny. I won't lie, we were in a smaller town, and most of our customers were adults, but 60 or so kids on the pull lists is not so bad relative to the size of our store.

Unless you think I meant sixty people in there at once.

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>>93499642
>probably because this guy doesn't read comics
You don't say.

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>>93499666
>I won't lie
Why not? You've been lying this entire thread.

>>93499664
I was bored by the scenes with Peter and his wife, honestly, but it wasn't such a big thing back then like in the JMS run and more modern takes on it. The 90's were very sensationalist for Spidey, and often times the comics were downright bad. The superheroics and soap opera bits were more divided than they are now, but I was not a fan of the marriage then, if only because it wasn't especially well written.

I don't mind the marriage, honestly, but I understand exactly where Marvel is coming from. MJ is best girl, but a marriage is taking Spidey one step too far from where he needs to be.

>>93499765
>I was bored by the scenes with Peter and his wife, honestly, but it wasn't such a big thing back then like in the JMS run and more modern takes on it. The 90's were very sensationalist for Spidey, and often times the comics were downright bad. The superheroics and soap opera bits were more divided than they are now, but I was not a fan of the marriage then, if only because it wasn't especially well written.

So what you're saying is that you were more focused on the action scenes?

>I don't mind the marriage, honestly, but I understand exactly where Marvel is coming from. MJ is best girl, but a marriage is taking Spidey one step too far from where he needs to be.
Answer the other anons question faggot. Where does he need to be in your eyes?

>>93499765
>>93495452
What is traditional Spidey? This is what started this argument but you can't give a single answer.

>>93499809
>So what you're saying is that you were more focused on the action scenes?
No. I enjoyed moments with Peter at work or with Aunt May or with his friends or what have you just as much. I just wasn't a big fan of the MJ/Peter dynamic at the time.

>Answer the other anons question faggot. Where does he need to be in your eyes?
What question? I have been (You)'d so much in this thread by angry Anons that I have not had time to respond.

If it were up to me, Peter would be not married, struggling to make ends meet, and working at the Daily Bugle. He'd have a strong supporting cast, maybe an on-again, off-again relationship with MJ, and live with or in close proximity to Aunt May. Insert whatever status quo changes you want to shake things up, but that's the default I think he should be at. I also didn't mind the teaching career Peter had, but I don't think that'd work long-term.

>>93499882
>No. I enjoyed moments with Peter at work or with Aunt May or with his friends or what have you just as much. I just wasn't a big fan of the MJ/Peter dynamic at the time.

Name your top five favorite moments.

>If it were up to me, Peter would be not married, struggling to make ends meet, and working at the Daily Bugle. He'd have a strong supporting cast, maybe an on-again, off-again relationship with MJ, and live with or in close proximity to Aunt May.

Never fear we have stories and stories for years!

>>93495396
Go fuck yourself.

Spider-Man 2's very existence proves this faggot wrong.

>>93499927
>Name your top five moments
My top five Spidey issues:
1.) Spectacular Spider-Man #14
2.) ASM #39
3.) ASM #239 (one of the early Hobgoblin issues)
4.) Not one 'moment' but I thought Maximum Carnage was cool as shit when it came out
5.) Spectacular Spider-Man #107

>>93499882
>If it were up to me, Peter would be not married, struggling to make ends meet, and working at the Daily Bugle. He'd have a strong supporting cast, maybe an on-again, off-again relationship with MJ, and live with or in close proximity to Aunt May. Insert whatever status quo changes you want to shake things up, but that's the default I think he should be at. I also didn't mind the teaching career Peter had, but I don't think that'd work long-term.
So, you're saying Peter should be stuck in a status quo hell? Your idea of "traditional" spidey is never growing up and facing the struggle of adult-hood, aka the entire fucking point of Spider-Man? Fuck you. You're everything wrong with modern comics and their stagnant adherence to the status quo, knowing they can make any big changes because they'll be retconned back to normal, and any changes they do make are awful ones to reset characters even further back in their history.

>>93500041
No no no, don't just start copy pasting shit you read off a list online. I want specific moments you remember that you enjoyed of Peter outside of the Spider-Man persona.

>>93500058
I hate to break it to you, buddy, but all comic characters are stuck in status quo hell with the exceptions of maybe the trinity of DC, but they reset so much it usually ends with them getting 'reset' too.

>>93500089
Let me build you a time machine so I can re-read those comics I bought when I was ten. That was twenty years ago, man. You want a picture of all my long boxes or some shit? Or will you claim I just bought all those comics and never read them?

>>93500108
Except, the entire fucking point of Spider-Man is that he can't be tied down to a status quo. In fact, he wasn't tied down to one till the OMD shit. How is this so hard for you to comprehend?

>>93500132
>You want a picture of all my long boxes or some shit?

I'm calling your bluff.

>>93500163
That was never the point of Spider-Man. The fuck are you on about? You could say the same about Thor, Captain America, Namor.

>>93500199
>That was never the point of Spider-Man.

That was /always/ the point of Spider-Man, it was the entire concept behind creating him.

The marriage was great but the baby was a mistake. Save daughters for alternate timelines.

It's harder to manage the sliding timeline when you have infants.

>>93500317
The baby never happened though. Mary Jane gives birth but it was a stillborn, then when it was revealed the baby was kidnapped, the baby ended up turning out to be dead anyways.

>>93500108
Doesn't change the fact your opinion is awful if you really think staying to a norm and never making any permanent changes is good.
>>93500199
>You could say the same about Thor, Captain America, Namor.
Thor was a grown man. Cap is a grown man. Namor is a grown fish man. Peter, however, went from high-school, to college, to trying to make ends meet, to getting married, to struggling through marriage. Until OMD, Peter was all about growing up

>>93500563
It was pretty vague what happened to it.

>>93500720
Well, the lady who stole the baby hinted it was still alive, but when Peter went to where it was supposed to be hidden, it turned out to be Aunt May instead. Which was another awful arc in its own. So basically Green Goblin also killed Peter's baby, a fact people forget.

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You're an idiot OP.

I grew up with the 90's cartoon, and I loved seeing him getting married. I went to the library and started reading all the Spider-Man comics they had, most of them being JMS stuff.
I was like, 12 or 13 when my brother and I started buying ASM, it was during Back in Black. I was too naive to really understand what was happening with one more day, but I wasn't happy about it

The fact of the matter is that Marvel can't rely on the new fans, as much as they want to. The old fans were the ones who stick around for the long haul, especially at the prices they have comics at nowadays. Can you seriously expect some young teenager to buy a comic for $3.99? Over and over?

The sales have been on a steady decline ever since. ASM should be a book that's almost always in the top 10, not top 20, it's Marvel's flagship title.
Bringing back the marriage would absolutely increase sales and bring back customers, not cost them. You're an idiot if you think otherwise.

>>93500874
There's even proof with Superman Rebirth, which has been performing much stronger than New 52 Superman so far.

>>93501227
And (as stated earlier) Renew Your Vows selling incredibly well in terms of non-canon shit. (much like married Superman before Rebirth. Hmmmmmmmm....)

>>93498271
So you're saying that every Spider-Man story has to be the same as or similar to Spider-Man 2 in order to avoid alienating anyone?

What's the point in me reading the comics, then, if watching one movie can tell me everything I need to know about the character? Where's the appeal in a character who's not allowed to grow?

>>93498177
>but it was GOOD
I wish I could hate you to death. No, it wasn't good even in a way you're describing. It's one of the biggest piles of garbage ever dumped on the character.

>>93501482
I never understood why so much of /co/ liked Superior

Yeah, it was a fun concept, but like everything Slott does, it was horribly executed. All the supporting cast members should have seen something was wrong immediately.
He shoots someone in the face point blank and all the avengers just sorta shrug and say "that's weird" but then he beats up 2 guys really badly and THAT'S what sets them off. And then after he fights when they try to discover if he really who he says he is, the only punishment they give him is kicking him off the avengers.

The story only works because it relies on everyone around him being completely retarded.

>be 11 at the time
>be a part of a dysfunctional family that is always at each other's throats
>get a JMS' Spider-Man issue
>the Peter/MJ interaction is more memorable and enjoyable than the fantastic elements
OP is a faggot.
>inb4 hurr anecdotical evidence
As if "kids can't relate to marriage because I said so" isn't.

>>93501581
It was late Dexter levels of "the protagonist acts like a complete idiot and would logically be exposed by now, but because he's the protagonist the universe bends to him and everyone drops 50 IQ points" and ridiculous plot conveniences like Stunner appearing exactly when the hard light technology is needed to avoid a moral dilemma.
I hate it especially because there's a potential for a good story in there, but it's wasted on Slott's atrocious writing.

>>93501581
It's not just much of /co/. It was also various people outside of it too.

>>93502671
I find a lot of normies like it because they hadn't read Spider-Man before, so of course they thought it was fun. Because they had no reference for how the characters were supposed to act.

>>93495396
Fuck off Quesadilla.

>>93495544
Yeah like the new exciting stories with Carlie Cooper and midget lady.

Or how about that new sidecut grrrrl with pink hair in Zdarsky's comic, oh wow.

>>93496200
Are you sure you're not the same person as

>>93495770
>>93495786

Trying to defend your own posts?

>>93495780
It also didn't help that none of the new love interests in ASM were anything interesting at all. When readers are more interested in Carol Danvers as a love interest for Peter Parker than the new characters intended to be Peter's love interests, there's a problem.

>>93495396
Last I checked, the newspapers and RYV are around and still have them married. OMD did'nt acheive a thing. Happy thirtieth anniversary Peter and MJ