What went so wrong with the DCEU? Can it be fixed?

>>93481345
The idea that a Superman movie should have the same tone as a Batman movie.

>>93481345

I love how they had to oversaturate the Wonder Woman image to prove their point. Like, I don't disagree with you, but don't be a faggot, OP.

>>93481362
I think not even Batman is that miserable. He never doubts his mission. He WANTS to save people. In spite his tragedy there's still a sense of wish-fulfillment and adolescent fantasy in Batman. It's like James Bond. Snyder's Batman is completely miserable.

>>93481345
Zack THIS AIN'T YOUR GRANDDADDY'S SUPERMAN Snyder

>>93481345
It tried to deconstruct superheroes with the first and most popular. However it did so with the assumption that the viewer already knows who Superman is and what he's about instead of creating its own universe. It misses the point of things like Red Son ,or even Injustice, of how a Superman without his morals is a scary thing. Not to mention all of the useless and lazy biblical references.

It's already better than the D*sneyverse, so it can't have gone that far wrong.

>>93481345
Because it started like half a decade later than the Marvel movie universe and now we're most of the way through the 2010s and it hasn't even had its Justice League yet- people are getting burnt out on Superhero movies, they've defined the decade the way shit like grunge and rap defined the 90s but it's almost over and people are losing interest.

And they made a lot of questionable decisions along the way.

>>93481345
I haven't watched a capeshit film in a decade but your image makes Superman sound interesting and Wonder Woman cringey.

>>93481345
>What went so wrong with the DCEU?
All MCU fans were expecting these movies to flop and so far they are doing amazingly well, so they got angry and clickbait websites saw the chance of free clicks by running a smear campaign against it

>>93481844
Well it's not Superman, maybe you should read Miracleman if that's your jam.

Besides it's a terrible movie not even considering the deconstruction aspect. It's not even a good deconstruction.

>>93481689
>>93481973
>>93481362
>>93481345
>>93481382
>>93481401
where does Superman ever doubt his mission to save people? You mean when he questions just exactly HOW to do the most possible good? when is he ever tortured? How do you think he is a god when there was a whole movie dedicated to saying he isnt a god? When does he ever question if he should save people? You mean that one scene where he wonders if his presence is creating more harm than good? Did you guys just not watch the movie?

>>93481345

Eh, it made Superman more interesting. A rehash of the Reeve era wouldn't have done as well IMO.

>>93482206
Objectively untrue.

WW has already beaten MoS' BO total and cost $70 million less to make.

>>93482185
>Superman ever doubt his mission to save people?
>when is he ever tortured?
Because Pa Kent didn't want to. It made him feel guilty to save people because he didn't want his dad's memory to be tarnished. It actually comes from both his parents basically saying "You don't owe the world shit." He has the capacity for altruism but it conflicts with his upbringing
>How do you think he is a god when there was a whole movie dedicated to saying he isnt a god?
Are you just going to ignore the Jesus poses, the scene in the church where Clark is right in front of a glass pane of Christ, and the actual Lance of Longinous in BvS? He may not want to be seen as one but he sure as hell isn't helping that. Neither is the cinematography.
>When does he ever question if he should save people? You mean that one scene where he wonders if his presence is creating more harm than good?
Because whenever he's saving people he always look like he's working a shit job. You could argue "He just looks like that because he doesn't want to be worshiped. He's just uncomfortable". But he even keeps that look when pulling the boat. Or even when congress blew up, he doesn't even motion to the bomb and look sad because he got there too late. He just stands there like 'Welp.' The only time he seems to care about saving people is when it's Lois or someone he personally cares about. He let a man die but when Lois was in danger he was there in a heart beat. All it takes for him to quit being good is Lois dying. He's even willing to go kill Batman instead of trying to save his mom himself.

>>93482380
>already beat MOS

they need to fire Snyder right now.

>>93481345
There is no fixing perfection

>>93482461
My bad, it's only beaten MoS domestically, it's still $10 million off MoS.

Man of Steel
Budget
$225 million
Box office
$668 million

Wonder Woman
Budget
$149million
Box office
$653.9million

Domestic
MoS $291,045,518
BvS $330,360,194
WW $318,111,468

It'll probably beat BvS' domestic total too.

it was so bad it made Mark Millar re-evaluate his entire outlook on comic books

>>93482667
>It'll probably beat BvS' domestic total too.
That's a lock. It has like 6 weeks of summer ahead before it's run ends. Look at this

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=wonderwoman.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=dc2016.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=superman2015.htm

Wonder Woman has been outgrossing both movies since the second weekend, but even with those shit legs, both BvS and SS ended up making $30-40M more after day 24 (where WW is). And WW is making notably more day by day, like more than double. If it keeps this pace the question is not if it will outgross domestically BvS or SS, that will happen this week. The real question if it will outgross domestically GotG2, Deadpool or even Civil War

>>93482667
Doesn't change the fact that he needs to be fired immediately.

>>93482403
are you fucking retarded? None of what you said actually answered any of the questions, the religious imagery was used to show was what OTHER people project onto Superman.

>Because whenever he's saving people he always look like he's working a shit job.

Uh, no? He doesnt look bothered at all when he saves the people from the oil rig, he saves Lois from the terrorists super casually, he smiles while saving the little girl, he treats his fight with Zod seriously as he should. He only looks pained when people praise him like a god, as Superman should.


>He let a man die

Wow, so you are one of those casuals who thinks Superman would actually intervene in a military situation? Lois being captured violated the geneva convention you dummy, but the CIA agent being there is just a normal act of war.
> All it takes for him to quit being good is Lois dying.

And Darkseid mind control. DCAU Superman didnt even have a dead Lois and he got mind controlled super easy.


> He's even willing to go kill Batman instead of trying to save his mom himself.

What? He literally goes there to try and convince Batman to save him. Its like you didnt even watch the movie.


I'm done talking to you, you are just an obvious troll or actually too stupid to be worth talking to.

>>93481401
> He never doubts his mission.

What? He doubts his mission all the time. There are tons of stories of him retiring because he doubts his mission. BvS Batman doubted his mission. The Nolan trilogy has him abandoning his mission at one point. There is a whole arc about him doing drugs BECAUSE of how he struggles with his mission.
You a stupid casual

>>93482403
You arent even answering any of the questions dude, you are rambling nonsense and jumping from one point to the other like a frothing, ranting hobo

>>93482792
nigga he doesn't say shit to batman which is why when he goes "murthuh" batman's like "oh my mom's name is martini too" and then they go fight zombie zod.

>>93481689
>However it did so with the assumption that the viewer already knows who Superman is and what he's about instead of creating its own universe

People do know what the deal with Superman is. The issue is that most people perceive him through rose tinted Silver Age "nobody ever gets hurts because Superman is perfect paragon of virtue and flawlessness and thus can never do no wrong even by accident" POV and get upset when someone like Snyder comes along and wants to focus on the fallibility of man part rather than the superhuman alien America's stepdad part. People like the limited, juvenile, idealized Saturday morning cartoon version of Superman more than a post-modern grounded take on the character.

>>93482790
I know. WW proves that there is no critical conspiracy against the DCEU and that audiences do like the characters.

Also neither BvS or SS are their directors worst films critically. So the bad scores are really a result of bad directors.

>>93482185
>where does Superman ever doubt his mission to save people?
When it took him 33 years and the whole world being at risk to try to step up and start doing something with those powers and abilities he had?

>>93482792
>the religious imagery was used to show was what OTHER people project onto Superman.
Except for the fact that the movie plays it up too. He chose to pose like Jesus in space and the camera lingers on it for the viewer to see. Plus the death and resurrection bit. "But the Death of Superman is a comic!!" that was made for 90s shock and awe this was used to reinforce the religious imagery present in the movie. Oh fuck I almost forgot when he came down to save the people on the roof with the Jesus light behind him
>Uh, no? He doesnt look bothered at all when he saves the people from the oil rig
Yes he did. He's shown to be conflicted about it and even says so when Lois confronts him
>he saves Lois from the terrorists super casually,
Because he personally has an interest in Lois
>he smiles while saving the little girl
What little girl?
>he treats his fight with Zod seriously as he should
He has a vested interest in it. He threatened his mom and his home
>He only looks pained when people praise him like a god, as Superman should.
Except there's really no proof they were praising him. When he saves the people on the roof, he's bored. Were they praising him? No. When he saves the boat he looks bored. Were they praising him? No. When he saves those Mexican people he looks bored. Now you could argue they were praising him but was it as a God or just as a hero? When congress blew up he didn't give a shit. He seems pained to do this except when something he cares about is directly in danger.
>Lois being captured violated the geneva convention you dummy, but the CIA agent being there is just a normal act of war.
Did he know that and even then it doesn't make it any better. I'm not saying Superman should intervene in military conflict but if he's going to take it into his own hands to kill a war lord why not save a life.He only truly cares when something he personally cares about is in danger

>>93482792
>And Darkseid mind control. DCAU Superman didnt even have a dead Lois and he got mind controlled super easy.
No where in the movie was it stated that he was mind controlled. Darkseid was there sure but we don't know that he had any coherence to join him outside of Lois' death. In the DCAU we are informed mind control took place. I don't care if it was in a deleted scene it wasn't in the movie.
>What? He literally goes there to try and convince Batman to save him. Its like you didnt even watch the movie.
No he doesn't. Don't you remember "M-MARTHA"
>I'm done talking to you, you are just an obvious troll or actually too stupid to be worth talking to.
Stop trying to say this movie is 3deep5you. It's just shit

>>93481345
>Superman has derp moral qualms over killing one guy
>Wonder Woman murders people by the dozen. It's just the youth of the German Empire, who cares? Being in an armed conflict means you don't count!

>>93482871
>People do know what the deal with Superman is.
That's not how you make an adaptation. You start by assuming this is going to be someone's first time with the character or franchise. If this was your introduction to Superman and the only thing you saw involving the character you'd get a terrible view of him

>>93482822
Except I did. It's not my fault you can't respond and make a counter point

>>93482947
>Superman has derp moral qualms over killing one guy
>kills another man within the first five minutes of BvS

Bravo Snyder

>>93482947
>Superman has moral qualms about rescuing people, and when he does he looks like he can't wait to get the fuck off out of there.
>WW goes out of her way and sets her mission aside to help people in need, and even shares and celebrates the joy of being saved with them.

See? I can do it too!

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>Put in charge of adaptation of the ultimate superhero deconstruction.
>Makes characters that are supposed to be losers, delusional or downright psychopaths look "cool".

>Put in charge of straight superhero adaptations that are supposed to be the foundation of a shared universe of ongoing superhero stories.
>Goes into full deconstruction mode, turning everybody into pathethic losers, violent whackos or unlikeable assholes.

>>93482790
>Doesn't change the fact that he needs to be fired immediately.
This. It's not even a question of whether people want to see Reeve-era Superman or not, it's that they don't want to see this emo deconstruction bullshit. They want to see a Superman movie and Snyder can't/won't deliver.

>>93483021
I'm more bothered that Germans are seen as disposable cannon fodder in a movie with a message that doesn't gel with murderising people.
It's like they just don't count as people.

>>93481345
>What went so wrong with the DCEU?
marvelfans

>>93483064
You mean Snyder. Everyone loved Nolan's Batman.

>>93483072
i mean people complaining about the dceu not being like marvel movies

>>93483060
The message isn't simply "don't murder" it's "be the change you want to see". And if you're making a movie about any World War it's going to involve Germans getting their shit pushed in. Everyone's canon fodder at some point

>>93483096
People just hated the other movies because they were shit. The X-men movies aren't like the Marvel movies and people love them.

>>93483064
>its bad because of a fandom with no direct involvement
???

>>93483096
What if people just complain that the movies are shit

>>93481345
snyder played too much injustice, this is what happens when you play a game with a shitty edgy story

>>93483096
TDKR wasn't like the MCU and it made over a billion, and it wasn't even a very good movie. It just wasn't complete trash like Snyder's.

>>93481382
are we never going to movies with color again?

>>93483060
I found it kind of questionable that Diana spent most of the film saying that men were just corrupted by Ares and that by killing them she could free them but she still slaughter them regardless. Didn't seem very heroic to me

>>93483395
She avoided to do so until she heard what they were doing in that town.

>>93482961
>If this was your introduction to Superman and the only thing you saw involving the character you'd get a terrible view of him

How? He's literally saving people selfishly throughout the movie like a real hero. Just because he's not quipping every two minutes doesn't make him a miserable human being.

>>93483545
>He's literally saving people selfishly
Yeah, that's not Superman

>>93481345
>she fights for love, justice and freedom
How can this trash be succesful?
Will capeshit ever be good?

>>93483410
They were still what she assumed to be marionettes to Ares and pretty much unable to hurt her.
Sure, the movie justifies her, but they could have made her act more heroically by having her fully exploit her invulnerability to rifle fire and handcuff the entire town on her way to the commander.
There is a distinct value judgement on the lives of people here. Not necessarily so much from WW's side as the movie's. A clear us/them.

>>93482901
>33 years
no way, another jesus reference?

>>93482667
let's be honest, I don't want to go full pol but WW hasn't received one tenth of the critical bashing BvS did. part of it is because WW plays it A LOT safer so it's more accessible to the random movie goer, but we all know that the fact that she has a vagina already gave her some sort of immunity from mainstream criticism. and I don't mean to say that it was bad, I found WW a solid 7/10, while I'd consider BvS a 8.

now that we're at it, BvS has to be the most retardedly overhated movie of the last decade. the only really stupid point is MARTHA, which could have been done in literally any other way and be less idiotic, but it's a fucking 10 seconds scene out of three hours.
The main problem if it is that it really needed one or two movies before it to establish the universe better, but whatever, considering how they had to rush it I think what we got was surprisingly solid.

>>93482901
He was saving people by using his powers during all that time, he simply didn't do it while wearing blue spandex.

>>93483968
>let's be honest, I don't want to go full pol but WW hasn't received one tenth of the critical bashing BvS did. part of it is because WW plays it A LOT safer so it's more accessible to the random movie goer, but we all know that the fact that she has a vagina already gave her some sort of immunity from mainstream criticism. and I don't mean to say that it was bad, I found WW a solid 7/10, while I'd consider BvS a 8.

Snyder just makes bad movies. BvS isn't even his worst movie. If your statements were true then SS (a movie with a 4 female main characters and a black guy as the lead) would have been praised. It wasn't because it's terrible.

>the only really stupid point is MARTHA, which could have been done in literally any other way and be less idiotic, but it's a fucking 10 seconds scene out of three hours.

Off the top of my head-

The CIA giving their agent a big flashing red tracker instead of using the drone in the sky, the army unit nearby or an app on a smartphone.

Lois Lane never being called to give testimony but a random actor was.

Superman being angry at Batman because the people he branded got murdered in prison not because Batman is just murdering people in the streets.

Superman never giving any interviews to try and change public opinion.

>>93481362
>same tone as a Batman movie

I don't get that because the Batman movies are nowhere near as dreary and serious as MoS or BvS. First time we meet adult Bruce in Begins it's him making a joke about some guys trying to kill him and wondering if they can do it before his breakfast of shitty prison food.

>>93484374
>Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.

-Zack Snyder

>>93484383
That sounds like a parody quote.

>>93484581
>My mother saw I was into this comic called Heavy Metal magazine, so she got me a subscription. You could call it ”high-brow” comics, but to me, that comic book was just pretty sexy! I had a buddy who tried getting me into ”normal” comic books, but I was all like, ”No one is having sex or killing each other. This isn’t really doing it for me.” I was a little broken, that way. So when Watchmen came along, I was, ”This is more my scene.”

-Zack Snyder

https://ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/amp/

File: 1496248152132.jpg (259KB, 1280x985px) Image search: [Google]

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>>93481345

Left: Film that actually tries to bring aspects of Superman that are generally only seen in the comics, such as questioning how much he should help humanity.

Right: Typical Marvel movie shit where you know exactly how everything will go from the first fifteen minutes.

>>93482206
>angst is more interesting
Goddamn, I feel old. It's like I'm back in the early 2000s.

I'm getting pretty fucking sick of this whole "Superman is boring" thing. Truth is, he ain't. He's, for lack of a better word, normal. Dude's a good ol' boy from Kansas raised on idealized farmin' folk values. He's an everyman type, which is part of the reason he's remained relevant for so long. You don't need some "deep" exploration of why Clark Kent does what he does. He does it because his ma and pa brought him up proper like.

And, for me at least, that's the entire appeal of the character. He's a more or less normal dude with nigh limitless power, and that's where the story is, not some dreary messiah metaphor.

>>93482206
>it made Superman more interesting
But I didn't find this superman interesting. He really didn't seem like a protagonist of a movie or even someone you would want to be around in real life. He was frustrating and depressing but also 'meh' as a character.

>>93484383
>he actually tried to bring new concepts and ideas to the capeshit genre
Serves you right, you don't see Paul Thomas Anderson or Werner Herzog doing these trash flicks and now you know why

>>93481345
Snyder literally and metaphorically killed Superman with BvS.

Superman isn't going to recover, not for years. He'll be fine in the comics and the hardcore audience, but for casuals, the only exposure to Superman for a long time now has been the Snyder films and Injustice. Despite what Snyders fanboys would say, 99.9% of the people who watched BvS were disappointed and simply dont care enough to autistically comb through it searching for a few crumbs of redemption.

Batman will recover. Enough people remember the Dark Knight series and the Arkham (And injustice) games to keep his image relatively untainted. Superman doesn't have that. It's getting on to the point that its been nearly a generation or so since the last positive exposure of the character to the people.When people think of Superman now, its Snyderman.

I have no idea how they will fix it, thats for someone with better Movie talents than me to discover. But for the love of god, start with Superman. That character needs saving, because its his character thats getting by FAR the most damage from it.

>>93485007
It used to be that Superman had to deal with not being able to save everyone, not being able to create a utopia despite his powers. Snyderman spends two movies debating whether he should even bother trying at all.

>>93484761
>I was a little broken, that way

Wow, maybe I'll never be as deep or cool as Snyder.

>>93484959
Not all change is progress.

>>93482185
>You mean when he questions just exactly HOW to do the most possible good? when is he ever tortured?
>cardboard speech

>>93481345
You already know the answer to your first question

As to the second, trust in Whedon and Cerealman

>>93483040
And all he got out of it was nigh-universal hatred, money lost, reputations ruined and a dead daughter.

>>93485007
>I have no idea how they will fix it, thats for someone with better Movie talents than me to discover. But for the love of god, start with Superman. That character needs saving, because its his character thats getting by FAR the most damage from it.
You're such a melodramatic faggot. After Adam West made everyone think Batman was campy, all it took were some good stories to rebuild his image. After Batnipples all it took was NolanBats to rebuild the character. All it takes is someone who likes the character and isn't out to shit on them.

>>93483021
>>kills another man within the first five minutes of BvS
Zero proof he killed him, he may have had his arm around the guys backside.

>>93483021
Did he kill that warlord guy at the start or did he knock him out and ended up being off'd by KGBeast like the rest of he's men to try and frame Superman?

>>93484346
>Superman never giving any interviews to try and change public opinion.

Exactly in this so called deconstruction the character isn't given a chance to define or defend themselves.

When a so the congressional hearing in the trailer I was intrigued Superman taking the stands to try and assuage people's fears but nope it's BOOM before he gets to say one word.

This isn't deconstruction it's demolition.

>>93485268
And an oscar winning franchise that has grossed a billion more than the competition by the same point

>>93481345
>Can it be fixed?
I thought they did that already.

>>93485384
Moron. West's Batman was in line with the comics of the time, which were just as absurd and silly, if not more so. Batnipples was minor compared to Snyderman.

>All it takes is someone who likes the character and isn't out to shit on them.

Is exactly what I'm saying. Get him the fuck away from Snyder, and start the "rebirth" of the DCEU with him.

>>93481345
>What went so wrong with the DCEU? Can it be fixed?
Even under a heavy smear campaign it didn't have flops, villains with cheesy names like Doctor Poison and 5 lines of dialogue became more iconic that all MCU villains and made Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman cultural icons. This prompted MCU fanboys to react autistically, as in making this kind of threads or posting pics of empty theaters for movies that outgross Winter Soldier

>>93485074
Yeah, because Snyder hasn't figured out that Supes makes no sense as a Randian protagonist.
Because that would be Lex, under any sane director.
But as it is, Clark gets a heap of "fuck you, got mine" morality from daddy and debates the usefulness of saving people, making BvS, Dark Knight Returns with two Batmen.

>>93485007

Nah, just have DC give up the rights to Superman. The character should have gone into the Public Domain, along with all the other super heroes from the 1950s, years ago.

>>93485074
>Snyderman spends two movies debating whether he should even bother trying at all.

So you haven't even seen the movies. MoS and BvS deal with two things: Clark's journey into learning to be a hero (MoS is his first day, BvS is him learning to accept and handle the pressures of the job) and how humanity would react to Superman's existence, both of which are usually handled in the comics by a very rushed "Superman saves something publicly, Clark writes an info dump story about himself and then everybody in the public except Lex automatically loves Superman" formula in one fast paced origin arc because people would rather just have him already be a hero and punch bad guys in supervillain fights than do a long form story of Superman slowly winning the public's trust. Even Morrison's Action Comics run is like this.

>>93485706
>Randian

Thats a good way of putting it, I wonder how much direct influence it had on Synder.

But I dont think its two Batmen - Synderbat doesn't hesitate, despite what he's doing. He doesn't doubt himself until the heel face turn at the end. Superman is the one that is frozen with inaction.

>>93485007
The worst part is that I'm pretty sure there's gonna be like 2 or 3 more Batman cartoons than there ever will be a Superman one

>>93485384
>After Adam West made everyone think Batman was campy
At the time, West's Batman was accurate to the way the comics were. Batman being "campy" was retroactive once things like The Dark Knight Returns/Knightfall/Burton movies/BTAS became the mainstream

>>93485811
>Clark's journey into learning to be a hero (MoS is his first day, BvS is him learning to accept and handle the pressures of the job)
Not the fucking point anon.

In MoS, his first day is only his first day because he'd spent his whole life avoiding stepping into the limelight. BvS is him full of self doubt an wondering if "Superman" was a bad idea. He literally gives up on the cause after the bombing. He's not motivated by a need to save random people, only by those he cares about.

>>93485839
Snyder is on record as being a huge fan of The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. There's often a lot of talk of his interpretation of Superman being something of an objectivist's interpretation.

>>93485839
Sorry I was unclear. It's a bit like two of the DKR Batman is what I mean. There the conflict is one of heroism for yourself or for the people. Superman being on the side of selflessness. This ideological conflict is completely missing from BvS. And that undermines the motivation of their clash. Which makes it look as though Snyder doesn't really get the ideas of the book he adapted or didn't actually care about it beyond the cool visuals.

>>93483968
>the only really stupid point is MARTHA
>only
> I think what we got was surprisingly solid.
I thought you said we were gonna be honest.

>>93485915
How else would you interpret the story about the flooding where his father saved their own farm by dooming someone else's property?

>>93481844
This. I blame modern nerd culture. It places a ton of emphasis on being tongue-in-cheek and meme-ready over actually being interesting. People don't actually care about the media they consume, they just want it to be compatible with simplistic social media posting limitations so that way they can easily wear all of their favorite franchises as a badge so their friends and family can know just how much of a quirky geek they are for liking the same shit as everyone else. People are way less-likely to support something different or controversial, because that then requires them to formulate and support their own opinions, and who the fuck has time for that? Like, share and subscribe! Someone else will justify my opinions for me!

>>93485937
Of corse he doesn't get the book, he said Batman's a killer in it

>>93484923
>I'm getting pretty fucking sick of this whole "Superman is boring" thing. Truth is, he ain't. He's, for lack of a better word, normal. Dude's a good ol' boy from Kansas raised on idealized farmin' folk values. He's an everyman type, which is part of the reason he's remained relevant for so long.
Then he's not Superman.
>Brandon Routh played Everyman in The Batman

Thinking a hero to be aspirational rather than a slog of suffering and human misery is a formulaic meme according to 4chan.

Why the fuck would anyone want to be this Superman? His life sucks!

>>93481345
One was an interesting, controversial examination of the core values and inherent conflicts of not the character as we know it, but the very concept of the character as applied to the modern world, and it still sparks somewhat-meaningful discussion even 4 years later. The other was a shallow, cookie-cutter capeshit movie that came out a month ago and people are already forgetting about.

>>93486044
I like how the DCEU fanbase was divided into people that think WW (and maybe SS) were shallow trash and others that think WW especially secretly rides on the same philosophies of MoS and BvS but critics are dumb for not realizing it

>>93481345
IMO all Supes needs is more scenes that build his character that don't move the plot forward. A lot of the character interactions in WW were getting to know the characters

>>93485915
wew.

Well that explains a lot actually. Thing is, I'm fine with new and different takes on characters, but you have to be a fool, or very, very brave, to do so in one of the main continuities, movie or otherwise. Doing such a radical deviation is a bad idea if its not an elseworld.


>>93485937
Ah. yeah, I can see where you're coming from.


>>93485996
IDK, I'd love to see a in depth movie with a complex Superman that explores the ideology and motivations behind the character. But Snyder goes about it in the wrong way. Rather than explore Superman's character and motivations, Snyder's Superman is completely different from the character. Snyder takes his own ideology and worldview and imposes it on Superman. Snyder didn't create a movie about Superman, he twisted the character to meet his own views, despite the fact that the character's basic premise is at odds with those views.

This ignores the basic structural problems with Snyders movies. The odd pretty picture aside, Snyder is a frankly terrible director.

>>93486026
>Then he's not Superman.
He is. The problem is you've bought into the Snyder rhetoric that thinks that humanity is defined primarily by its flaws and moral failings rather than anything nobler.
There's plenty you can to do humanize Superman that doesn't involve giving him doubts or having him sad about stuff. It's all the stuff Snyderfags say is "unnecessary comfy childish boy scout fluff for babies". And with the exception of getting into a bathtub with Lois, Snyder didn't do any of it. But you're okay with that because you don't understand its necessity.
For example, the reason Superman visits sick kids in the hospital or plays with orphans or feeds the homeless in a soup kitchen is multifold; part of it ingratiates him with humanity both in and out of story (preventing the exact perception issues he has with the public in this movie) but also it's because those are actions that any normal human, including you or I, can do out of the goodness of our hearts. We see our altruistic actions mirrored, or are inspired to do so because those are feats of human kindness that we can emulate. That's why so many Superman stories have a scene where he basically says "I can fly, but anyone can be a Superman".
It is for this reason that we see Clark help with reconstruction or deal with "real life superheroes". It's why we see him place himself on the same level of responsibility as an overweight night watchman, or have coffee with first responders. Again, he's not putting on airs and that's stuff we can do too.
It's why there's a necessity of the Clark Kent persona is also a tool that helps place Clark within the folsd of humanity. He has a regular nine to five job where his boss is breathing down his neck and he pines for the girl in the cuble over. It is in these ways that he is, indeed, an Everyman.
Now's the part where you go >not muh and yell at me for being an autistic comfyfag that doesn't understand that wasn't Snyder's intention.

>>93485902
>In MoS, his first day is only his first day because he'd spent his whole life avoiding stepping into the limelight.

And? Clark always has to go on a journey to figure out what he wanted to do with his powers. In MoS it's tied directly to his quest to first discover his reason for being on Earth before making a life defining decision about what he wants to do with the rest of his mortal life.

>BvS is him full of self doubt an wondering if "Superman" was a bad idea

Because Lex has spent two years building a smear campaign that makes everything Clark does look like he's only making things worse. Self-doubt storyline is something comics have done numerous times in the past over lesser things.

>He's not motivated by a need to save random people

Then why did he keep saving people all those years before he ever found the ship and became Superman? Believes in helping people, period. He protects Earth as Superman because it's his planet now, and his loved ones are what makes him connected to the world, it's not mutually exclusive.

>>93481345
make it more like Wonder Woman and less like Mos and BvS. There ya go, problem solved.

>>93486125
>In MoS it's tied directly to his quest to first discover his reason for being on Earth before making a life defining decision about what he wants to do with the rest of his mortal life.
>Then why did he keep saving people all those years before he ever found the ship and became Superman?
>it's his planet now
>now

I think the problem Syder fags get confused with when confronting critics is this: my criticism isn't that Superman isn't heroic enough, its that he's not heroic enough for the right reasons. Both in MoS and BvS, the only instances Sups ever saves someone is so it makes him look godly and superior to man, hence man needing some type of savior. Whether it be the Smallville battle, the Metropolis battle, the flood in BvS where he is very majestically hovering over the house surrounded by water, as if he's the survivor's savior. He always comes off as that, some savior sent to Earth by tragedy, rather than an average person who just happens to have powers and is also a really good hearted person. That's what made Reeves' Superman so likable. He always came off as human before kyrptonian. Every interaction he had with other characters felt human, and whenever he saved someone it felt like a genuine hero, helping other people for the sake of helping them. In Mos and BvS, it always feels like Sups is trying to prove some point like, "hey dad, you looking down from heaven? look at me, I'm a hero despite you telling me not to use my powers! this is about me, not the people I'm saving!". The tone of every scene with Superman in Snyder's films feels like its trying to FORCE the audience to like his version of Superman, rather than the audience going in and already loving Superman and being adjusted to whenever he saves someone. With Reeves it felt natural, with Cavill it just feels.... forced. Like an alien, searching for his humanity is barely struggling to be accepted by mankind. Fuck that happy horseshit. The movie shouldn't be about Superman struggling to be accepted. That's not what a hero makes. A hero makes sacrifices without caring if humanity likes them or not. And if someone says, "what about when he killed Doomsday!?", congrats, you're gullible as fuck. Snyder wrote that in specifically to combat this criticism.

>>93484959
PTA did Punch Drunk Love.

>>93486311
>Both in MoS and BvS, the only instances Sups ever saves someone is so it makes him look godly and superior to man
Stopped reading there. You're a fucking retard. I like how one of the biggest criticisms of Snyderfans is that they're trying too hard to see depth that isn't there, but it's pretty much the same as what you're doing to justify your hatred of the movie.

>>93486354
>floating down from the heavens in a ray of light isn't to make him look godly and superior to man
>B-but that's the point that's how humans see him!
Can't have it both ways. If you want us to see Superman as human you can't have him constantly being this austere figure. I mean, you can, but then your only defense is to meme harder and accuse people of not watching the movie.

>>93486354
if you stopped reading there then your assessment of my criticisms is worthless. I go on into detail why I think this. the fact you got triggered and stopped reading after the third sentence is pretty pathetic desu. Its a movie, anon, I'm not attacking your faith or political views here.

>>93486383
exactly. Reeves Sups managed to look heroic without always hovering over people and majestically walking around like Jesus abd Brad Pitt had a baby and it came out with super powers.

>>93485760
This

>>93486125
>Self-doubt storyline is something comics have done numerous times

But they usually come after the character has been built up as a hero. The hero doubts, but the reader knows his fight is worth it.

You don't have that with cinematic superman. All the major disasters were caused by having a kryptonian on earth. Superman is burdened, depressed and lonely, cults and hate mobs are popping up. Hell, Superman watched his father die in order to keep his powers secret. The only counter point you have is him saving a hand-full of people.

>>93485760
Is it true MoS was mostly produced for the sake of keeping the rights away from the creators' family? How would that have worked

>>93481345
this >>93481362
Batman Affleck looks like shit also

>>93486807
Yeah, pretty much. Think of trilogies like Raimi's or Nolan's, the part where the hero questions his journey always came in the second movie, after the characters affirmed their intentions/MO in the original movies. Fuck, even thev arguably not as good Avengers AoU and TWS did it, it's a basic play, as if the multiple movies follow a 3-acts story structure, were thus the second has to be the low point from which the characters have to climb their way up again

Shit, how could i forget, Superman 2 did that too

With Snyder's movies you could argue that it is there, because in BvS he fucking dies, can't get lower than that, and characters like Lex and Bats supposedly questioned his heroics, but the thing is that MoS was the same. In MoS Superman has to choose he wants to protect earth after Zod questions the benefits of that... and in BvS he has to choose to protect earth after Lex questions the benefits of that. In MoS daddy argues "who gives a fuck if your life/identity is at risk"... and in BvS ghost daddy argues "who gives a fuck if something in general is at risk" with mommy tagging along too

>>93486859
>Is it true MoS was mostly produced for the sake of keeping the rights away from the creators' family? How would that have worked
The belief was that Warner wasn't making a movie, thus not paying royalties from the profits, thus they can demand the rights back.

Now understand that some time during MoS production Warner won the court case and own Superman wholesale now. So the court arguments have ended officially.

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>>93481345
>Can it be fixed?
The process is already underway.

>>93486807
>But they usually come after the character has been built up as a hero.

And? Why does every heroic journey have to be a walk in the park in the beginning and only get worse later on? Just because it's a familiar formula doesn't mean it's the one and only correct way to do things.

Being a highly controversial public figure is something you start out with, and you either give up when it gets too tough or you get used to it and move past it.

We know Superman's fight is worth it because he proves our fears wrong and inspires us with his inherent goodness. Batman is saved by Superman. He single handedly inspires the Justice League into being formed.

>>93486976
>In MoS daddy argues "who gives a fuck if your life/identity is at risk"...

And the context is he's talking to a seven year old kid who doesn't understand the danger and the greater ramifications of his actions could have.

>>93486125
>Clark has to go on a journey
No, a farmboy with godly powers raised to be a good kind and help others shouldn't and doesn't need a journey to decide to be a superhero.
He considers it self-evident.
Because it is.

>>93487113

Thank you based Joss. Thank you Zack's daughter for your sacrifice.

>>93486087
Yeah they could've cut down on the fights with Faora and Nam-Ek in the middle to make room for it. Would've made the Zod fight at the end a little more special as well

>>93487113
Just because Snyder is a hack doesn't mean another hack will make it any better.

>>93487202
>it self-evident.

It's self-evident in the radio show where he already is an adult and wearing the costume when he lands on Earth and continuity where he's Superboy. Most other versions have him travelling the world figuring shit out.

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>>93487137
>he proves our fears wrong
Except no one ever acts afraid of "the alien" in the movie. Even the gov't agents who take Lois in for kidnapping seem more bothered by the fact that their priceless alien tech was stolen/they've got aliens in orbit making threats.

Absolutely no one is bothered in any significant way by the fact of aliens among us.

Superman is only shown as being "controversial" to world governments, the people seem thrilled to be saved wherever he saves them. The world governments are powerless to do a single thing about him, and would have the problem of harassing "that guy who saved all those people".

The unfolding movies show that Jonathan's paranoia and Clark's decade + of wandering hobo activity were pointless.

Snyder Superman isn't "inherently good", he's just reasonably willing to help when people are in danger. Is he ever shown doing any positive work for the community? Or really risking himself in any serious way? He steps in to save lives in situations that pose him little to no personal risk (which anyone would do), and he goes all out to save Earth from an alien calamity he's personally responsible for in the first place.

>Batman is saved by Superman.
Saved from having his characterization butchered by Goyer maybe. At least as soon as people move on and forget about his ass-clownishness in BvS.

>>93487250
>Just because Snyder is a hack doesn't mean another hack will make it any better.
The goal isn't to please autists like yourself, WB knows that isn't likely to happen. The goal is to restore these misfits to their beloved A-list status. Whedon is the man for the job.

>>93487113
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>93487158
>And the context is he's talking to a seven year old kid who doesn't understand the danger and the greater ramifications of his actions could have.
Cooper Timberline plays the young Clark Kent from the school (who's supposedly nine).

The Clark that gets the lecture on bus-saving from Pa Kent is Dylan Sprayberry. Clark is supposed to be 13 at that point.

>>93487268
>Saved from having his characterization butchered by Goyer maybe. At least as soon as people move on and forget about his ass-clownishness in BvS.

Once again you miss the entire point and resort to going not muh.

>>93487137

>And? Why does every heroic journey have to be a walk in the park in the beginning and only get worse later on?

That's a bullshit false equivalency and you know it.

Batman Begins had plenty of self-doubt in its story, but we also got to understand Bruce's journey from Joe Chill to his fractured relationship with Rachel to destroying himself in the criminal underground to eventually finding a twisted form of salvation with the league, rejecting that salvation and coming back to Gotham.

We know nothing about Clark in MoS of any real worth.

>but the flashbacks

The flashbacks are chopped to pieces, randomly inserted into the film with no rhyme or reason and adding nothing to the scenes sandwiched in. And instead of actually following an arc, we see him as a kid and sort of as a teen before disappearing for years and giving us no sense of what he was as an adult.

There's no worthwhile heroic journey to follow from Clark for the audience to care about. There was some bad shit as a kid, then nothing and then a blank slate with daddy issues that barely gets resolved.

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>Clark is seven.

>>93487137
>We know Superman's fight is worth it because he proves our fears wrong and inspires us with his inherent goodness.
The extent to which he did these things is debatable and the problem is you assume that anyone that disagrees with that either didn't watch the movie or is intentionally misreading it.

You're praising the movie's ambiguity yet refuse to actually address what ambiguity necessitates by definition.

>>93487255
Nah, he should have learned that from the kents

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>>93487353
Turning Batman into Billionaire Rorschach so that Snyder is more comfortable with the character is completely missing the point of Batman.

>>93487379
To be fair he's supposed to be 19 in the tornado scene but they have Cavill play him there. Which means that Clark didn't age at all visibly from the ages of 19 to 33.

Which, okay sure, he's Superman so that kinda makes sense, but not really a good decision when you're supposed to be making us think he's still a naive kid that needs life lessons in that moment. (But then again, 19 should still be old enough to decide if you want to let your dad die or not)

>>93487424
Clark's decision-making in MoS only really makes sense if he's severely autistic/borderline retarded.

>>93486094
Precisely. To examine Superman one must first establish Superman as what he is supposed to be, then go about challenging him with a notion that questions his values and conclude with him being strengthened or changed in his approach. You don't go and make him a miserable egocentrist to begin with, then throw incoherent ideas at him which barely even apply and kill him because you actually have no idea what to do with him.

>>93487469
Remember, this is the same writer who gave us the "Cops rush the sewers" scene in TDKR.

It's delightful that this F.S.A defends his writing in almost every thread tho.

>>93487403
The point is that Batman, after years of phyrric victories and semi-retirement has gone off the deep end and his paranoia and fears as a whole represent humanity's combined fears and doubts that everyone has projected into Superman. He is meant to be the villain of the story to certain extent specifically because he fails to see past his own confirmation bias. It's all part of his character arc as well as part of the larger introspective of how humans would perceive an alien being operating on Earth.

Despite all the good Superman does, we as a species are far too suspicious to take his actions for granted and will eagerly raher suspect ulterior motives. Only through Superman's example we are able to be better than that.

>>93487546

>He is meant to be the villain of the story to certain extent specifically because he fails to see past his own confirmation bias

Except this dichotomy only works if we got a real understanding of who this Superman was, but Snyder is so obsessed with characterising him through iconography instead of actual character that it doesn't work as a conflict.

>inb4 but not characterising him is the point

That's not a bulletproof shield, it's a meaningless point that doesn't add to the story or the themes and makes Clark a narrative non-starter impossible to care about.

Intent is irreverent, " it's the point" is not an argument.

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Man, considering Clark's uprising, I have no idea WHY he helps people or wants to be a hero.

The movie never shows where this come from, all that his parents said to him was to never do anything, it's the direct opposite of what he became.

Seriously Nigga, he had the predisposition as a kid, you can tell that he COULD HAVE become comic's Superman and had a reception more akin to him if Clark's parents weren't so shit.

>>93487402
The Kents teach him that his gifts are meant for greater things, so he needs to be in control and discover his purpose in life. It's up to Clark to figure out what that means. Parents who dictate to their kid from the birth onward that you're going to be a spandex wearing superhero are shitty parents who try to mold their kids into being what they themselves want him to to be rather than letting the kid figure out what he himself deep down wants from life.

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>>93487546
I'm sure that sounded DEEP and eloquent when it rattled around in your brain.
Police deal with these sorts of "phyrric victories" every single goddamn day. They also don't have manservants, hot socialite girls, or billions in savings to soothe their nerves.

Goyer makes Batman look like a weak, violent cunt who cannot into logical thinking, let alone detective work.

Sometimes a hatchet-job is just a hatchet-job, and there is no kino to it. Your NEED for this to be a "graet movie" has left you staring at the blot test too long, now you see the Pretty Flowers for real.

>>93487631
>Except this dichotomy only works if we got a real understanding of who this Superman was

Only the blind cannot see it. MoS lays out a pretty clear picture of what kind of a man Clark is and his deeds in BvS only reaffirms those foundations.

>>93487686
>his gifts are meant for greater things, so he needs to be in control and discover his purpose in life. It's up to Clark to figure out what that means.
This is just mental horseshit and ambiguity. Good parents instill in their children a sense of responsibility for their own actions, a sense of community and work-ethic/pride in what they do. Add in some patriotism and Faith, especially in Kansas.
No one "trains their kid to be a volunteer fireman" from birth. But they DO try to offer an example that might inspire them to volunteer or enlist themselves.

Stop spouting ambiguous shit that only sounds high-minded to yourself.

>>93481407
b-but I liked my grandaddy's superman!

>>93487717
>MoS lays out a pretty clear picture of what kind of a man Clark is

He REALLY looks like someone with autism. Not even in the "4chan" sense, he looks like he has actual autism.

>>93487743
>But they DO try to offer an example that might inspire them to volunteer or enlist themselves.

Like when Pa Kent does during the tornado? Being a selfless hero?

>>93487717

>MoS lays out a pretty clear picture of what kind of a man Clark is

No it didn't. We got some flashbacks as a kid and some daddy issues, and even if you want to argue it somehow glued together into something meaningful his character turned a complete 180 in BvS due to events we never see.

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>>93487773
That's silly. (derps internally)

>>93487690
Batman is meant to be flawed individual in BvS. His paranoia and fear blind him from the truth. Hence why he's on the wrong side. It is not a hatched job when the whole point is that he's slipped and lost his way and his character arc is to get back on track to the more traditional idea of Batman.

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>>93487777
>Like when Pa Kent does during the tornado? Being a selfless hero?
WHAT?

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>>93487806
They made Batman weaker than the Average Man.
He'd already been stripped of his brilliant powers of deduction, inventive genius (thanks Lucius), Speed and Dexterity (thanks overwrought costuming), and Tireless Commitment to the war on crime (thanks Nolan).

Now Goyer and Snyder strip him of his Iron Willpower and reduce him to the same sort of confused manchild that they've already turned Clark into in MoS.

Thanks a fucking lot. They made a Batman that only appeals to genuine autists like yourself.

>>93487634
>Seriously Nigga, he had the predisposition as a kid, you can tell that he COULD HAVE become comic's Superman and had a reception more akin to him if Clark's parents weren't so shit.
This is where Jesus comes in. Because Snyder need Clark to be Jesus, he needed Superman's morality to NOT come from his Earth parents, but from the sky father. The Kents failed because they are not suppose to teach a god morality, only another god can do that. This is also why Clark ended up being useless until he is 33, to once again copy Jesus. All to make sure his human parents have no positive influence whatsoever. To make sure Clark is never a true Human, but a god.

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>>93482913
>he looks bored.
Is this trolling?
Is DCEU hate a meme I just don't get?

>>93487777
>Like when Pa Kent does during the tornado? Being a selfless hero?

No, that was stupid. What he did was burden his child with basically being responsible for his death and doing nothing to stop it. He also left his wife without a provider just to save the family pet.


Clark had plenty of time to run to the car and back at human-ish speed. It was all for nothing.

>>93488658
>Clark had plenty of time to run to the car and back at human-ish speed. It was all for nothing.
He could even rush towards Pa, push him down and held him down while covering him with his own body, as the tornado pass over them. There will absolutely be no problem of them surviving because tornadoes randomly spare people all the time. It was just a crappy scene that made no sense in the way it was presented. I know the idea behind it, but it was just not executed properly.

>>93488658
>Invincible Son, I can't be bothered to help these people when I can just sit back and be safe over in the distance, so why don't you do the hero thing for me since it's more convenient?

And you people have the audacity to say the movie Jonathan is supposedly a sociopath.

>>93489580
>>Invincible Son, I can't be bothered to help these people when I can just sit back and be safe over in the distance, so why don't you do the hero thing for me since it's more convenient?
>And you people have the audacity to say the movie Jonathan is supposedly a sociopath.
The first thing you learn in a First Aid course is that you don't put yourself in harms way. You would end up becoming another casualty needing rescuing. There is no reward for adding another body to the pile.

I guess what you say makes sense if he just wanted to kill himself.

>>93490001
>The first thing you learn in a First Aid course is that you don't put yourself in harms way

And that's why when people go into danger to save people at the risk of their own life, we call them heroes instead of going "wow, what a selfish asshole that guy is! He actually went and saved that baby despite the danger!"

>>93488775
If every single thing in the vicinity is carried up but Clark, that doesn't work.

>>93490343
It wasn't a baby, it was a fucking dog

What's the deal with fiction and pets? When you see a dog that is going to be killed by a natural disaster you should say "Fuck that shit, I'll buy you a new Rex"

>>93490374
>If every single thing in the vicinity is carried up but Clark, that doesn't work.
Yes it does, people will just say it was a miracle. Tornadoes does weird shit and doesn't act predictably. No one can see what is going on so they can't infer anything about Clark.

>>93490483
>people will just say it was a miracle.
Just like the "miracle" that all those kids on the bus saw?
Clark can't afford miracles.

>>93490504
>Just like the "miracle" that all those kids on the bus saw?
>Clark can't afford miracles.
Then he fails to be Superman.

They aimed for gritty realism. Stupidly forgetting that their source material is spandex clad people with fantastical powers. Making fantasy realistic is an oxymoron, hence why the movies have suffered.

>>93490483
>Clark Kent was tied to yet another "miracle"
>Oh well, that's just the fifth time this year, that's hardly news, Charlie.

>>93490437
Some people actually love their pets and don't treat them as mere disposable commodities that you can replace once the last one expires.

>>93490603
>Making fantasy realistic is an oxymoron

What about magical realism

>>93490589
damn...
Sounds like some serious not muh.

>>93490606
>>Clark Kent was tied to yet another "miracle"
>>Oh well, that's just the fifth time this year, that's hardly news, Charlie.
this

>>93481345
>Can it be fixed?
Maybe. Wonder Woman's a good start.

What would seal the deal--and I know this isn't at all achievable--is if Batman's solo flick also came out before Justice League. Have it be a detective story at heart, and be just personal enough to make a big show of him cementing his renewed faith in the cowl and superheroics again. This would better set the stage for him assembling the Justice League, and help refocus the tone of the setting in general.

>>93490374
That's what that anon was talking about: that sort of thing happens fairly regularly by way of random happenstance and dumb luck.

All the people who survived that scene hid under the overpass, and that's legitimately more dangerous than just being face-down in a ditch. You're more likely to get swept away or hit with high-speed debris because the way it funnels the wind.

>>93490933
Isn't it against Deathstroke?
I would hardly consider him someone that can work for a detective story, if they don't go out of their way to make it more complicated than it need to be

>>93491113
I'm not saying that Deathstroke is involved. I'm saying ideally that is what the substance of the movie would be, and ideally that's the timing of it coming out.
I know it's not actually what's happening or even possible with the timing of these releases.

>>93485502
tf? the amount of money the dceu has pulled in doesn't even touch the amount of money the mcu has pulled in

>MCU: $11.759 billion gross
>DCEU: $2.94 billion gross

>>93489580
>I can't be bothered to help these people

People? He died saving the family dog.


Also, no, it is not the right choice for the older guy to attempt a rescue when an younger superhuman is available.

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>>93483060

Well there's your problem, you're laboring under the misguided belief that Germans count as people.

>>93490606
>Some people actually love their pets and don't treat them as mere disposable commodities

At the cost of your wife and son? You would ruin both their lives for a pet? That is not heroic.

>>93491232
I think he meant that they have made more money than the MCU have with the first 4 movies, without obviously considering that Marvel did it with two nobodies and the Hulk while starting the cape movies train, while DC did it with the Trinity, Will Smith and arguably the second most well known female character from the Big 2, and at the apex of the aforementioned train

>>93491346
To some people pets are like children, asshole.

>>93491418
This but without the cuck excuses, first four movies.

>>93491557
I'm the asshole, but Martha is working is some dive bar and living alone and Clark watched his father die when he had the power to easily save him.

>>93491572
Only because you add "cuck" it doesn't make it any less true
Also could you remind me what that oscar was for? I'm sure it must be one of the important ones, like best movie, screenplay or actor

>>93491643
Clark's secret was more important to Jonathan than his life. He was protecting his family first and foremost. Clark undestood that, Martha as well.

>>93488522
You forgot that the entire point of him saving the schoolbus and getting a lecture is one long homage to Luke chapter 2.

>>93491664
The ones Disney has NEVER won since Mary Poppins? No, it wasn't one of those

>>93491721
And who cares about Disney or Marvel, we are talking about DC here

>>93491721
To be fair they pretty much made Best Animated Feature specifically to avoid having to nominate any Disney animated features for Best Picture.
Not winning one of the big three is a shame but being responsible for the creation of a whole new category (one that now one of their subsidiaries has a monopoly over) is a pretty good consolation prise.

>>93491756
>And who cares about Disney or Marvel
Not anyone who knows anything about cinema I tell you that

>>93491808
You have yet to tell me how many oscars, and of which categories, did the DCEU win to put it in the same category of films like LotR

>>93491681

For a Dog!?

And no, there is no understanding the death of a parent for a completely frivolous reason, especially when you could have saved them. That is not something you "understand".

Whatever the reason, choosing to not save your father would haunt most anyone until their last day on this earth.

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>>93484885

>>93491701
>You forgot that the entire point of him saving the schoolbus and getting a lecture is one long homage to Luke chapter 2.
I am starting to understand why Snyder said he wanted Batman to be raped in prison. He is just using Biblical references, and chances are he actually reads the damn thing for real and actually saw the bits the sermons omit.

>>93481345
DC rebooted their entire comics universe to pander to an audience that never came from movies that never happened.

>>93481814
>people are getting burnt out on Superhero movies

No they aren't. No matter how much it gets repeated here it just isn't true.

File: 1498151996595.jpg (140KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 960x720px

I'm beginning to think that anyone who thinks the DCEU version of Superman is good is fundamentally incapable of understanding a film on any level besides what is explicitly stated in the dialogue. People keep defending it with "but they never actually SAID that" despite all the clear imagery.

>>93491898
All lives matter.

>>93482947
Germans aren't people between 1918 and 1946 as far as the world is concerned.

Russia is still on the fence about it.

>>93485706
In fact, Superman's creators outright said he was their socialist hero.

The polar opposite of Randian.