I enjoyed this movie, however... Enjoying it comes at the cost

I just want to know what sex with Wonder Woman is like.

>>93467257
>predictable
I don't understand how this is considered a valid criticism. Do you want stories that don't follow any kind of structure, and are just a series of random events?

>>93467277
I want to lick those thighs.

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>>93467257
My biggest problem with this movie is the fact that she slaughters a fuckton of nazis without even once realizing she is helping the war claim more lives and then she fucking comes up with the preachy realization that humans are people of war and she, the pure daughter of Zeus, must show them the way of love.
Even Dr. Strange, a movie about the fucker that sendt Hulk to the moon for prevention, had a great moment after his first kill explaining that he is a life saver, not a murderer.

Only if you think dark and 2deep4u symbolism is the only artistic value in film.

>>93467257
Why do they have to be more than that? The vast majority of comic books have been intended for kids or at least young adults, so it stands to reason that their film adaptations would go for the same demographics.
That doesn't mean we might get a Watchmen tier Capeflick eventually.

>>93467257
Wow is just like their main audicence have been kids and teenagers for the last MOTHERFUCKING 80 YEARS.

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>>93467371
>Nazis

>>93467371
>My biggest problem with this movie is the fact that she slaughters a fuckton of nazis without even once realizing she is helping the war claim more lives
Welcome to Wonder Woman, the superheroine that fights for peace. Her nature and pursuits are paradoxical. Get used to it.

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>Enjoying it comes at the cost of accepting the fact that superhero movies will always be generic, formulaic, predictable and with little to no artistic value as a film on its own, just popcorn action flicks with "morals" injected on them.

How many big budget action movies that you know of aren't like this?

>>93467303
No, I want a movie that subverts those structures and make something that has a little bit if originality, not a film made step by step following every fucking origin story structure.

>>93467413
Watch something else.

>>93467371
Diana is not a doctor. She's a warrior but also believes in peace. She knew that in order to stop Ares, she would need to fight her way to him, and she did. Stopping Ares was the only way to end the war and achieve peace.

>>93467374
No, but at least that's better than little to no meaning at all.

>>93467403
By your logic cops only make cities more dangerous and we should let thugs alone

>>93467371
>Nazis
>WW1
Ameritard education

>>93467436
hi /pol/

>>93467453
>changing the subject
You don't even know what /pol/ means kid.

>>93467379
Yes, but I don't want either one or the other. Why do those movies have to be absolute different things?

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>>93467411

>>93467447
I'm not american, fag

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>>93467511
>action movie
>big budget

>>93467436
Not at all. Don't get me wrong, I love Wonder Woman. I don't mind her fighting, because the concept of utilitarianism makes sense to me within moderation. She was raised in a culture that excels at creating work for casket-makers. She doesn't have a no kill rule either. People who need to be stopped by a superhero aren't going to because you ask them to. At the bare minimum, they might need to take a few fists. At the worst they might need to be put in the ground. Within the grand global concept of a corrupting force that plays on humanity's worst inclinations, I see nothing wrong with Diana epitomizing that force's antithesis. If she technically empowers Ares while fighting against his forces there is a difference between taking down every single one of them before getting to him as opposed to cutting the most direct line to him. I simply acknowledge the paradoxical nature of fighting for peace. That doesn't mean I object to or dislike Diana. Quite the opposite in fact.

>>93467403
Yes, but she acknowledges it. I know George Perez isn't the only WW writer, but people still ignore her pacifist roots that identified her during his run.

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>>93467411

>>93467257
You can't lean too hard on World War 1 without getting terribly sad. It may have provided some context to establish that all the British general that Diana had yelled at had all lost a son, nephew or brother. High ranking officers died all the time as well, because sniping was a thing and their Uniforms made them easy to spot. Even Ludendorff had lost his wife's son in the War and his desire for Total VIctory could be seen as an effort to make sure that life was not lost in vain.

>"HAVE you news of my boy Jack? "
>Not this tide.
>"When d'you think that he'll come back?"
>Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.
>"Has any one else had word of him?"
>Not this tide.
>For what is sunk will hardly swim,
>Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

>"Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?"
.>None this tide,
>Nor any tide,
>Except he did not shame his kind---
>Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.

>Then hold your head up all the more,
>This tide,
>And every tide;
>Because he was the son you bore,
>And gave to that wind blowing and that tide.

>>93467397
Am I the only one that didn't realise this was WW1, not WW2?

>>93467618
oh, the movie where the Jesus stand-in comes back to life at the last minute and then uses his god power to beat the cartoonish bad guys after ripping off Hong Kong movies and Dark City for 90 minutes?

I don't even dislike it, I'm just saying if you think it's some kind of grand innovator then you kinda crazy

>>93467644
The movie failed in showing that. Ludendorff was just Evil Von Badguy. Also source?

>>93467709
I'm not saying it was a masterpiece, I'm saying it had the balls to try something other than being a formulaic sci-fi action movie.

>>93467733
Not being JUST* a formulaic action movie. I'm not saying it isn't one, I'm saying it at least tries to go beyond that.

>>93467684
Retard.

>>93467718
My Boy Jack by Rudyard Kipling
Sad ass story under spoiler
>Jack Kipling was nearsighted and rejected by the Army
>Father Kipling pulls strings to get him in anyway, all his friends are going after all
>Jack Kipling dies in trench
>Father Kipling falls into depression and writes sad poem about his feelings

>>93467764
Thanks for sharing, anon.

>>93467644
No more bruder wars. ;_;

>>93467428
But the important thing is if she is mainly a pacifist or mainly a warrior. In this movie it tried to be both and failed miserably on her message of peace. Doctor Strange and even fucking Logan had a better message than this.

>>93467944
>Dr strange has a message
No it was just a mindless action mcu movie

>>93467709
Are you that fucking dense?You can't be that dense.

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>>93467257
I didn't like the long Themyscira beginning. It felt like a straight-to-dvd B fantasy film.
I didn't like the climax, the villain just kept on repeating their same uninteresting point while they threw cgi effects at each other.
I didn't like the characters and themes, I was never grabbed by the emotions of the characters or worrying wether or not they were going to make it.
The one thing I did really like about this movie was the music.

>>93467430
No it isn't.

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>>93467257
A Vote for Sir Patrick is a Vote for Eternal War

>>93468653
I still can't believe they brought back character themes. It's been so long...

>>93467750
>Not being JUST* a formulaic action movie. I'm not saying it isn't one, I'm saying it at least tries to go beyond that.
Personally I no longer give a damn about innovation. I just want the film to succeed as a story telling medium. Eventually you realise that everything had already been done and what matters is if it is done well. No point trying to support failures.

>>93467413
I prefer movies with a three act structure
indeed, I love movies that stick to the heroes journey instead of subverting it, it often feels more sincere and timeless when you follow it, subversions just don't resonate with me
so it really is a matter of taste here

heck, I can be on the edge of my seat even when I know what happens next, even movies I watched a dozen times can keep me gripped


furthermore, I would take a well made movie with a standard plot over a more messy and rough bit more ambtious film any day

>>93467447
Germanfag here, to be fair to that anon the original script probably read nazis and was only changed later to include child soldiers at the end and to be able to do the whole "we're all guilty" thing better than a ww2 movie could
If Zack Snyder had done this movie she would've killed Hilter no doubt

>>93467257
>Enjoying it comes at the cost of accepting the fact that superhero movies will always be generic, formulaic, predictable and with little to no artistic value as a film on its own, just popcorn action flicks with "morals" injected on them. If I set my expectations low I will never be disappointed.
>Please prove me wrong, I want to believe.

Because there aren't any directors capable of telling compelling stories who at the same time want to do superhero films.

>>93467684
The movie didn't do a good enough of a job of explaining that for people unfamiliar with history. of course they dropped hints like 'the war to end all wars' and used the 08/15 instead of the mg42, but i doubt the mainstream audience even realized who von Ludendorff actually was, thinking he's just a generic ss guy

>>93467413
So you want deconstructions.
That's still a formula

>>93467733
What, specifically, did it try that was outside of formula?

Bitching about cape stuff being genre is like bitching at a dog for not meowing.
Watchmen ruined you people. It really did.

>>93469912
Then please, go write that formula

>>93469987
"Look at what the other guy is doing and do the opposite. Is he a boy scout? I'll make my guy a dick!".
That's the formula. Subversions of tropes can, and in the case of superhero media have, become ubiquitous enough to qualify as, if not a subgenre, than a new genre of themselves.
If the "formulaic" capeshit is clowns, then subverting them is sad/scary clowns; something so overdone they've become a genre unto themselves.
Liking Byronic Heroes and Anti-heroes over the Classical archetype is perfectly okay, but it doesn't make them innovative. They haven't been for a good 30 - 40 years.

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>>93467257
The movie was "meh" but the villain was the real mood kill for me. An unabashed scrawny loser plays as the villian. The god of war looks like you could punch him in the face and he'd do your taxes. See: >>93468718
Maybe my expectations are too high. The critiques gave this movie high praise but all DC did was avoid making another joke of a movie. The movie is just "meh". A lot of people watched this movie waiting for this amazing moment where the film takes off. It didn't. 2017's Wonderman just manages not be a total dumpster fire and that's the victory. A pyrrhic victory.

Wonder Woman was mostly trash. It's Thor meets Captain America: First Avenger with worse acting and an ending about as generic as any capeshit out there. If it was about another white male Superhero then it would have a 56% on Rotten Tomatoes right now

>>93467750
The Matrix adheres to the Campbellian monomyth, Wonder Woman inverts it. Diana goes from the fantastical to the mundane and does not return.

>>93467257
The More I think about this movie the more impressed I am with it. And it's partially due to some interviews with Patty Jenkins. This movie had a foundation of pure dog shit when she came into it. Like nothing was good and she had little to no control over any of it. But she takes all this and crafts something by in large enjoyable. I have some problems with this movie, problems I feel like people have to be delusional or just argumentative to disagree with, but the crafting of this movie, the things that were done with what was given is incredible.

>>93470390
the truest thing no woman would ever admit to.

>>93467944
>the important thing is if she is mainly a pacifist or mainly a warrior.
No, a balance of both is possible and the film pulls it off well. She fights and kills for the sake of peace.
>In this movie it tried to be both and failed miserably on her message of peace.
How did she fail, if the film ends with the war coming to a close? She literally succeeded.

>>93471300
The main factor in the film's success, as far as I can tell, appears to be Diana herself. Patty Jenkins' insistence on staying true to the character, and depicting a superhero who just wants to help people because it's the right thing to do has been cited as a huge refresher from all the dreary, angsty bullshit of previous films.

Odd how people enjoy a product more if the main character is actually written in character. You got that, writers, editors? Diana is a nice girl.

>>93471480
The "Oooh a Baby!" and Ice cream scenes went a long way in establishing Diana's likeability for me.

>>93471606
The ice cream scene was a let down to me, personally. Maybe because I have some preconceived notions about it. But for me that scene and a more than a few scenes like it throughout the movie had that problem of Gal Gabot "acting" And she is one of the things that in my earlier post I was alluding to Patty doing an amazing job working around or doing a better job than I expected with. The "Oooh a Baby!" part was a huge shock to me because it was one of the few sincere moments I got her. The rest of the movie in my opinion was her being propped up by a pretty terrific supporting cast. I'm honestly at a loss to the chemistry I keep hearing about between Gal and Chris because what I mainly saw her making "that" face, and Chris/Steve slowly growing to appreciate and fall in love with Diana.

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>>93467733
Anon, The Matrix is a bog-standard Hero's Journey movie. It is A New Hope with a punk rock aesthetic. That's precisely why it's so appealing, it takes a time-honored, excellent story arc and does it in a cool way.

The sequels DID try something else, and that's one of the reasons the sequels are trash.

>>93467257
>Enjoying it comes at the cost of accepting the fact that superhero movies will always be generic, formulaic, predictable and with little to no artistic value as a film on its own

Why?

I mean, I thought WW was a 6/10 movie at best, but that doesn't mean other films can't be better. There are many much better superhero films.

Also, The Incredibles has a ton of artistic merit, your argument is invalid. And if you want strong themes, then, no matter how up and down they've been, those are definitely present in many of the X-Men films, which are desu probably some the most 'human' and thematically strong action films around in this time period.

>>93467684
I got it when there was no mentioning or hint at the existence of hitler

>>93467709
>I'm just saying if you think it's some kind of grand innovator then you kinda crazy

It literally changed action cinema forever. It was innovative in the most literal sense possible.

>>93470390
Ghost busters proved that Audience is not influenced by sjw bullshit, nice try though

>>93470342
>Maybe my expectations are too high
I mean the villain critique is totally valid, for a villain who was supposed to be the god of war Ares, I think its completely in the right to expect someone to look more of the part.

I wouldnt have minded the scrawny look if it was just a ruse, he was playing both sides of the war and of course he had to take a form nobody would expect, but then in the fucking flashback when he was shot down by Zues he looks exactly the same, and same when he's in the armor, it just felt lazy and killed the mood.

>>93467644
>You can't lean too hard on World War 1 without getting terribly sad.
No argument here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jll9_EiyA

>>93472035
My Great Grandfather ended up in the nuthouse for a stretch after WW1, and her was an American.

>>93467257
Have you not seen Logan?
What about Unbreakable?

>>93467447
>Enlightened consumer of American garbage
You are no better, in fact, you're worse.

>>93471975
Scrawny old men are the gods of war, though.

>>93467944
But that's whh the allies went to war. To stop the bad guys. Diana killed Ares, and then there was peace afterword.

>>93467257
>Every movie must always be an artistic masterpiece regardless
It's not Michael bay level absolute normies garbage, but these movies tend to be based on present characters or stories
They're the superhero story
It's entertainment
It's like asking for artistic porn, getting it, and realizing you never wanted it because it's the same shit anyways just more pretentious

>>93467413
You do know every story regardless of what it is or how it's told, in the end, has a plot structure right
Did you even do high school English
>>93467684
>>93467371
>Constant references to no man's land, the Eastern front
>Barely any u.s soldiers because the u.s came in last minute
>No Nazi armbands
>Kaiser era German helmets
Just, just fuck off
It's your fault for being stupid

>>93469900
I was just generally pist off the entire time, since my immersion collapsed under the weight of Ludendorff not properly imaged under the weight of psychological collapse he underwent, with his Son dying late war he was fucked up. There was also immersion breakers such as all the Central powers using only Stalhelms when production had already collapsed by this time in the war. Only thing I could note positively was the usage of plastic surgery to reflect on the era where it grew. Overall Wonder Woman a shit

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>>93467764
>>93467800
This story was also used in Mike Carey's The Unwritten.
Kipling rejected working for the Unwritten Cabal

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>>93474699

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>>93474720

>>93472902
>Logan aka : The Last of Us: the movie

>>93467277
She'll destroy your crotch

>>93471300
OP. Thanks, I'm gonna check those out, I hope it changes my mind.

>>93471411
By murdering almost everyone that standed between her and Ares. Your point is?

>>93472902
Never seen unbreakable, thanks for the recommendation.

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>>93467411
This
come on people this isnt even that good of bait

Is there an explanation for why she doesn't get involved in WWII, Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, Iraq War, etc?

>>93474427
>You do know every story regardless of what it is or how it's told, in the end, has a plot structure right
Yes, but the popularity and over usage of a certain structure is a fact, and that's why people don't give a fuck about horror movies anymore.
>It's your fault for being stupid
Can't argue with that.

>>93467257
>Please prove me wrong, I want to believe.
I don't think that's possible, or true. It sounds like you're just like every other contrarian wannabe critic who turns there nose up at anything that isn't an art film.

As such, I must redirect you to >>>/tv/

>>93467718
>The movie failed in showing that.
Well, Ludendorff was a red herring for Ares, so showing too much humanity would've undermined that "is he, or isn't he?" thing he had going on until the final confrontation with Diana.
Dr. Poison had her moment of humanity in the brief chat with Steve, which I liked quite a bit because even though her motivations were hardly original, they avoided the typical expository dialogue and we learned what she was about from her look when Steve was sweet talking her, and how it changed when Diana arrived. To me, little details like that show that Jenkins is a more apt filmmaker than Snyder because she could both service the genre she was doing, and managed to keep it somewhat fresh with those little touches.

>>93467618
>"the chosen one"
>not predictable
I love Matrix, but come on.

>Enjoying it comes at the cost of accepting the fact that superhero movies will always be generic, formulaic, predictable and with little to no artistic value as a film on its own, just popcorn action flicks with "morals" injected on them.

But this was always true. Why do you care only now?

>>93467944
>doctor strange has a message

CLOUDORMAMMU
I HAVE COME TO TRADE

>>93474632
Don't forget there were British tanks on a German airfield (guess it's because if the would have been German ones most people would have no idea what those weird metal boxes were, still though)

>>93468081
i'm pretty sure the message was "don't text and drive"

>>93467356
Yeah, me too