What is your opinion about Civil War 2? Who was right? And how

>>93460160
Carol was right. Iron Man was just throwing a tantrum.

it's civil war, why did they do it again? Who reads this trash? Why do they think we enjoy hero fighting hero rewashed dribble?

>>93460160
Iron Man was right. Carol was just throwing a tantrum.

>>93460183
>>93460219
Hydra cap was right. Iron Man and Captain Marvel were throwing tantrums.

>>93460189
So you guys don't like the first Civil War?
Is one of the most recognisable stories out there.

>>93460160
Carol was right and Tony deserved to die.

It was shit. Nobody was right. The first one should be the only one that exists.

>>93460160
Had the stupidest kind of ending

>>93460238
And it was fucking awful.

>caring about marvel after secret wars

nope

>>93460236
Readers were right. Bendis was throwing a tantrum.

>>93460160
Any SJW cast going to die?

I'm so shocked not really at how retarded people are with this event, saying how right Iron Man was, when he was literally fighting with no real goal.

I mean, how fucking retarded is Bendis that he never has the event escalate to the point that Iron Man is about to kill Ulysses to stop Carol? That should be the obvious climax! So what was Iron Man's goal? "Hey everyone! Ignore Ulysses! If he has a vision? Just ignore it!" Was that seriously his goal? No, he brought an army and trashed a government building, so he was fighting purely for the sake of fighting!

And what's worse? This whole event just read like editorial changes instead of a story! "We'll have War Machine and Hulk die here and here, She-Hulk will turn monstrous, Hawkeye goes wandering so Kate can take over, Tony will go in a coma...BOOM! Solid storytelling" I cringe just writing the phrase solid storytelling after that GOTG issue Bendis wrote where he told things out of order and then acted like it was really clever when he got back to one point and literally wrote "BOOM, solid story telling right there!"

>>93460160
Carol was right but a huge asshole about it.

>>93460160
Carol was right, but her being oblivious to the fact there were already loads of time-travellers and how Ulysses had already failed once showed how much of an idiot she really was when using TRUE POWER.

Tony wasn't even in the slightest bit of right, his motives were both biased, stupid and childish.

But as Rick Jones said in... I don't remember which issue of Captain Hydra: "Really? No one saw Minority Report?", this was a lazy copycat of the plot.

And it gets worse, since they acknowledge the movie exists in the 616 universe, that means either Carol, Tony AND EVERY FUCKING WRITER are too dumb to realize the obvious shit of a plot they were in.

>>93460160
I didn't read it. Was it literally just boys vs girls like your picture implies?

>>93460238
It was a DC Kingdom Come rip-off

>>93460570
...War Machine. Like, they opened with killing the Black Guy.

It's amazing that Marvel boasted that they took 4 months to come up with this event, and it's probably the hole that's sinking the entire company.

>>93460238
It's terrible, what's probably worst of it was the characterization.

>>93460497
The Ultimates2 is pretty cool.

>>93460238
It doesn't hold up. People act in ways they don't act in other stories.

>>93460628
Will there be more?

>>93460183
Carol would have been right, except Bendis wrote her as an insane person who couldn't even be asked to use the laws WE HAVE RIGHT NOW to keep her from doing anything obviously crazy. The whole event was stupid, even worse than Civil War 1, and boring on top of it. It was full of "tie-ins" which were just there to try to push failing books (Patsy Walker and Mockingbird were two glaring examples). It was a true shitfest.

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Its been said before, and I'll say it again: This wasnt a war, but a spat between two drunks who dragged everyone else into their shitshow. Its quite an achievement to make an even dumber event than the original Civil War, and this event was a trainwreck from day one. Bendis watched Minority Report, and once again cast continuity and reason to the wind creating what is perhaps the embodiment of whats wrong with modern Marvel Comics. Everyone went full retard, no one remembered precognition was already a thing, and the entire thing ended on a wet fart after months of readers wanting it to finally end.

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>>93460833
It's even stupider how Bendis wrote it. Because it was obvious that Tony's "motivation" was that he didn't trust the system not to be easily abused... but he praise Carol all day about how he trusts HER and how she's the best. It was some very blatant Carol pushing, which is also crazy because Bendis wrote her as such a horrible cunt. And why did Tony trust her? In her own book she has a team of lawyers that make sure she's keeping within the law, but in the main book she arrests people without anything besides a vague vision? It sure would be nice if Ike Perlmutter hadn't fired all the editors, maybe Marvel wouldn't be trash now.

>>93460160
Dyke Carol made it even more shitty and sjw

plus smiles and kamala

>>93460238
>So you guys don't like the first Civil War?
I'll be honest, there's stuff I do like. For example, I like how many characters were involved, including lots of smaller names. You can spot a new cameo every time you read it.

I also like how it felt so different than other stories. Where most events happen in days, this happened over the span of weeks, maybe even a month or two.

There was no flow in this story. There was no "This lead to this which lead to this". Instead, it felt like several mini arcs with no real resolution or buildup.

As Illuminating pointed out there's like twenty characters in the Marvel universe that explicitly have "tell the future" as their power. And another forty that are straight up FROM various futures. And Tony himself did Future Math to cause the previous Civil War.

So the idea that suddenly this random bumblefuck inhuman can predict the future and Carol has GOT to believe him 100%? Nobody bought it. It was just that stupid.

It should be renamed to "Everyone Went Full Retard II"
1 - made to try to cashing on the movie
2 - Written and planned by people who clearly lack knowledge of any type of story outside "2deep4U" pop culture media.
3- heroes are fighting heroes AGAIN. and heroes are acting more like villains because they act like "I'M NOT WRONG MOM! THE WORLD IS!", all the time.
it is pretty much everything that is wrong with modern marvel.
When Dr.Octopus, Hydra Cap and Dr.Doom are better heroes and people like them more. you know that there's something wrong.

Here's the thing. The first Civil War, while kind of a rip off of Kingdom Come, at least asked a legitimate question with regards to the genre conventions and the nature of masked vigilantism before Tony went off the deep end and started putting people in Space Guantanamo for looking at him funny. At the end of the day you could maybe have a conversation about the nature of crime fighting and if stuff like teen superheroes or Punisher basically just being a mad gunman is acceptable.

On the other hand Civil War 2 doesn't even ask anything thought provoking. It's just "do you believe in this one MARVEL'S THE INHUMANS tm" or not.

>>93460238
For me the original Civil War was a good idea, with an interesting moral question, poorly executed (which oddly enough the movie adaptation handled somewhat better, go figure). From the get go the event was off to a bad start considering what triggered the conflict: a bunch of D-Listers who accidentally blew up a school. Now normally this would create public outcry and the demand for accountability from masked vigilantes, but considering the number of conflicts that happened already in the Marvel universe, a good number with considerably higher mortality rates, this seemed like small potatoes by comparison. Then you have Peter Parker outing himself as Spider-Man for the dumbest out of character reasons ever which is only made worse by the flip flopping he did on the issue. Furthermore Tony Stark goes full villain by cloning Thor, recruiting supervillains, and creating a super illegal other dimensional prison where he just dumps these people without due process. Also one could argue that both Steve and Tony's views on registration were completely reversed given their previous character history. Though I will say I enjoyed Steve realizing what collateral damage he was causing at the end and surrendering

>>93460969
I just read AoA, in fact, and that was centered around a character from the future and a precog.

You know what I can't get over?

Ever since this event and Secret Empire, the roster of Marvel characters that appears in books has shrunk so much. Like, previous events at least brought in forgotten faces, but now, it's the same faces we see monthly.

>>93461066
Ewing and Spencer seems to be the only ones who know about older characters and stories.
The rest pretty much only knows about popular faces and their OCs and self inserts

>>93461066
Its because its not about bringing in characters that might be fun to see, its about advertising and reminding readers of their other titles that are available for purchase. Christ Riri Williams was in this for whatever reason doing absolutely nothing for the sole purpose of getting praised and exposing her before her book dropped

>>93460160
So what was Civil War 2 about?

>>93460238
It was a good concept ruined by the fact that everyone made Tony go full fascist. That said,I really like the splat for Marvel Heroic Roleplaying that was based on it.

>>93461150
>Christ Riri Williams was in this for whatever reason doing absolutely nothing for the sole purpose of getting praised and exposing her before her book dropped
It was really horrible of Tony to bring her, if you think about it at all. She's got no experience, a barely functional suit without an AI, against a shitton of other capes. You could play it as "he thought she's surrender" but Carol is clearly an insane person.

>>93461137
Credit where credit is due, I'd include Cullen Bunn in that list. He goes out of his way to bring back forgotten characters.
>>93461150
Or how Moon Girl is in 4 books a month

The winners are those who avoided this garbage completely.

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>>93460189
>why did they do it again?

>>93461186
Basically what happened was The Inhumans dropped ANOTHER mist bomb, gave a college kid the ability to have visions of the future via superhuman mathematical deduction, and the entire conflict was between Carol and Tony on whether or not they should act on them Minority Report style. War Machine, Hulk, and Tony died in the most retarded fashions possible, Carol acted like Hitler, Miles was given a splash page that was printed WAY too much across several tie-ins, and it ended with the Inhuman fortuneteller fucking off into space to go hang with Eternity

>>93461270
Plus everyone kept praising her for how she did, which came back to be a plot point in her book when almost every currently active superhero team went out of their way to try to recruit her.

When, as far as I recall, all Riri did was maybe shoot at someone once or twice and manage to not explode. Everyone was impressed that she didn't die in a fight against other heroes, I guess?

>>93460160
It should have ended when they discovered that Ulysses' visions can be wrong, at which point they became utterly worthless. I choose to believe that Hydra Cap manipulated Carol and Tony into this stupid shit.

>>93461316
Plus, all the deaths were directly Carols fault.

>>93461186
>So what was Civil War 2 about?
Why is there always one in these threads.
>>Some fag can see the future (an Inhuman, mind you)
>>Carol Danvers uses him to go Minority Report.
>>Tony was against it because his black friend was killed.
>>Fighting for the sake of fighting

>>93461311
This is amazing
>>93461339
>I choose to believe that Hydra Cap manipulated Carol and Tony into this stupid shit.
He did. It just wasn't covered AT ALL in the main book, only in Cap's book. So, probably the most important and interesting part of the plot is in some tie in. So you're left with boring shit in the main book.

Why was Carol such a cunt

She should have died

Remember the time Tony made a machine to help predict Future threats so he could stop them premptively? Bendis sure didn't

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>>93461369
The parody starts here:
http://illuminatingcomics.tumblr.com/post/158105476535/the-worst-thing-after-a-war-is-a-war-fought

It just got to the first false prediction

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>>93461417

I never read it but I'm going to assume that Iron Man was right because history has proven that Spider-Man always picks the wrong side

>>93461316
>>93461343
>Carol sided with Hitler in CW1
>Carol became Hitler in CW2
It's like pottery.

>>93461344
I was out of the capes loop for a few months and I expected CW2 to be a huge shitshow. Sorry.

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>>93460160
>Who was right?
The one who stopped a Bad End.

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>>93461489
Carol is always right.

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>>93460160
>Carol wants to listen to the mumblings of a magic madman who has provably gotten things wrong in the past and wants to make it illegal to not listen to him

>He fucking disappears at the end anyway

I don't care what side you're on, but Carol was objectively wrong. I don't care if you were on the Champion's side, Inhumans side, Tony, Peter, it doesn't matter. Carol was actually in the wrong and continued to be in the wrong until her plan fell apart.

Thank fuck it was Ulysses that she latched onto and not Marvel's version of Braniac or something (I don't remember his name, guy with the tell-everything helmet). I think it should be a lesson to Marvel's writing staff about dicksucking a character no one likes so much, but they won't learn.

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>>93461538
Carol wants to not ignore somebody who tells you things that are 99% certain to happen in the future.

>>93461580

Yeah that's great for threats like stopping a Celestrial or Thanos (If you actually bothered to take a proper team to face him anyhow) but it gets real stupid real fast when you start arresting people for shit they haven't even done yet.

>>93460238
>So you guys don't like the first Civil War?
First one was a fun telling on an issue people could actually have a discussion about. What is the limits between freedom vs security? Is it considered righteous to force charity workers to identify themselves to the public knowing full-well of the repercussions it would bring? We have the same debates in modern society regarding identifying cops on the job, or soldiers. Yet, the same wasn't awarded to the superheroes of the world in Marvel's universe. Is that right? Is it okay to single them out because of things that are beyond their control?

Civil War 2 was the masturbatory story of dickhead dyke and her plot device. It was also the murdering of any character Carol Danvers ever displayed before she chopped her hair off. Old Carol would have _never_ been the one to ask that question. This idea of her being a hardliner who always plays by the rules was never, ever part of her character no matter how much people want to retcon it. One-piece wearing Carol would have been perfectly fine making all the exceptions in the world for her superhero buddies because she knows that they'll be the ones there that she can count on if anything ever goes tits-up.

It was basically a showcase as to why modern marvel couldn't write another civil war to save their lives. The fact that it ended with "ULYSSES DIED ON THE WAY BACK TO HIS HOME PLANET, TONY'S FINE BTW, READ OUR NEW FIRST EDITIONS (Ps: Half of these books will be cancelled before the end of the year)" was just icing on the cake of Marvel's stupidity.

>>93461580
That's great except she was shown first-hand that his predictions were NOT 99% accurate. She wasn't even sure they were 50-50 accurate. She was basing her experience off what could have been statistical errors at that point.

She was shown by the other side that he was calculating what *should* happen and not actually what was going to happen, and then promptly ignored those warnings. She's a shitcake. The fact she wanted him to essentially rule the world without really understanding his power or if he's even a good guy is irresponsibility that's basically unforgivable.

What if Ulysses had pulled a Brainiac at the last moment and just revealed that, while his predictions were accurate, he was actually evil and was totally planning something with Thanos. 616 would be fucked. It would be actually illegal to go against his word. Carol couldn't even figure out HydraCap, so what possible chance could she have of figuring out HydraUlysses or ThanosUlysses?

At least Minority Report had three precogs to error check one another. She just had one.

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>>93461417
Only a few pages in, and I think I'd legitimately prefer Carol is she was written like this.

Remember the Ms. Marvel tie-in? That was some shit. Book never really recovered from that shitshow.

>>93461020
>when Dr. Doom is a better hero
You shut your FUCKING mouth! Doom has ALWAYS been a better hero! Latveria #1! Hail Doom!

>>93460160
In the words of wise Skwisgaar Skwigelf "Everyone [was] dildoes

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>>93460160
>>93460183
>>93460219
No one was right. Marvel just wanted MCU synergy money and Bendis just phoned it in.

>>93461730
That's only slightly exaggerated from the original though. B&F Carol is best Carol.

>>93460628
>kill black character who could easily take over as Iron Man
>replace him with a literally who black girl
I'll never understand what is going through the minds of these fuckers.

>>93461580
the 99% certain argument isn't very good because it was shown in accompanying comics that the prediction was just that an event would take place, not how or when.
Ms. Marvel had vigilantes lose their shit over a Ulysses reading and nearly get a guy killed
Luke Cage and Power Fist had Songbird and her lesbian lover accidentally cause a jailbreak that one of them was sent to stop
Iron Man's issue is why he was against it in the first place
Champions actively burned their Avengers card because even they understood that the methods were prescriptive, not actually predicative.

in short, either Marvel was trying to tell us that Ulysses' rate at stopping crimes was not actually 99% or they have writers who were just as vindictive about CW2 as the readers were.

I was right in not spending my money on stupid shit

>>93461020
At least "Everyone Went Full Retard I" had some actual motivation behind it grounded in real-life events.
I'm yet to see those precogs the US Government want to implement or read a story about precogs that's better than Minority Report.

>>93460183
>told a holocaust survivor that it's totally not the same thing when she does it

Kek

There's no way she was in the right.

>>93460160
It was garbage. Tony was right. Civil War 1 was terrible, and 2 was somehow worse.

>>93461489
In the end... Death will always go for Deadpool.

>>93462061
>implying she wasn't right to call out Mag-gas the flatscans gene war now-neto

>>93461890
>black girl they replaced tony with wasn't lila rhodes an established character with a connection to tony and his legacy

>>93462061
>co constantly mocks Bendis for bringing up the holocaust every chance he gets
>Carol quips on a character who is nothing but muh holocaust
>Get mad at Carol
Hypocrites the lot of you.

>>93460238

Because it started this Marvel crossover event nonsense and killed Cap, sure

It's fucking garbage

>>93460183
>>93460219
>>93460244
>>93460605
Nobody was right in this. Even its internal logic doesn't make sense. And when that happens, what's even the point of even pretending that there's a debate to be had?

Millar's Civil War was dumb and out-of-character for characters, but at least I could see why people would like it or get into comics because of it. Ignoring the tie-ins and focusing on just Millar's book, there was still something resembling a logical structure: The war is sparked by the Stanford incident and Captain America rebelling against the Registration Act and then ends when he discovers that his actions may have endangered civilians. Tony "wins" the war and moves forth with his plans.

With Civil War II the internal consistency isn't there if you ignore the tie-ins. The conflict between Tony and Carol is sparked when Rhodey dies... And Tony is upset because Carol didn't heed his warning, a warning he didn't even make. I mean this isn't even Bendis ignoring a comic that someone else wrote. It wasn't even Bendis ignoring another issue that he wrote. It was Bendis ignoring what happened A FEW PAGES AGO.

And the resolution is that Carol ends up putting Tony in a coma... but then Eternity comes in to recruit Ulysses. It's basically like >>93461620 pointed out, it was like a Poochie ending. It was like Carol's side fought for nothing because even if Tony had agreed with her, Poochie Plot Device would've been taken off the board by the end of the story.