Why can't DC seem to figure out what to do with Hawkman?

>>93453568
Just let him hit people in the face with a mace. That's all he wants. That's all he needs.

>>93453568
Because he's a boring character

>>93453648
It all depends on how a character is written

Because his power is he can fly...
Not only fly but fly with huge fragile flappy wings.
Amazing.

Volume 4 was great and it ran well even past Johns. The Palmiotti/Grey issues maintained the foundation from the early issues, and made use of classic rogues to keep forward momentum. It was a good book the whole way through. The biggest problem was reconciling Kendra/Shayera, which like all Hawkman problems, is a self inflicted wound on editorial's part. Stay true to the core and the property works.

He's coming back at the end of that Batman event.

>>93453972
And The Flash is a guy who can run really fast.

And Aquaman is a guy who talks to fish.

And Batman is just a guy in a halloween costume.

>>93454417
Hawkman's only power is to fly when just about every other character on Earth can also fly and do so in addition to other powers.

>>93454870
He also has the tactical experience of being a warrior across millenia of lifetimes. If he were written properly he should have Cap/Bats level tactical plot armor.

>>93453568
Well to be honest, they don't seem to figure ut what to do with most of their characters, so why would Hawkman be an exception?

That being said, he's having an importat role in DC's current event.

>>93453972
Is "Hawkman is useless" a meme now?

Batman doesn't even have powers and everyone sucks his dick.

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Got Wings
Got Mace
Fight Evil

All we really need

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How do you sell an old character to a new generation that wants to be experts on everything but don't have the patience to learn and will immediately dismiss anything they don't already know as being too hard to understand?

>>93453568

They did figure it out. Johns had ironed out his shit, then Didio decided to reboot everything IMMEDIATELY after.

>>93454382

>Shayera

You mean Shiera?

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>>93454417
Comparing a guy who runs so fast he outruns nuclear explosions, and move through matter and travel time to a guy who can fly at about 30-35 mph and that's about it.

It's not like he is the bestest best flier ever either. He actually kind of sucks at it compared to all the other guys who can fly without wings and has ten more powers on top of that.

>>93455131
Batman is 100% better than Hawkman at absolutely everything Hawkman does.

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Why not just say the Alien Hawkman is a reincarnation of the Golden Age Hawkman?

>>93455638
They did that, twice

>>93455567
>Johns had ironed out his shit


Bullshit. Johns take on him was shit.

Retcon him again so hehas knowledge of all his future lives too

that could something cool, he'd be a tactical genius and weapon master who rivals Vandal Savage except he would do stuff more often

and he'd have a jetpack because future hawkpeople

or give him a second mace

either is fine

Ok so what is his current story.
Is he Thanagarian still?

>>93455720

I'm not talking about any kind of take. I'm saying he figured out how all the continuity hiccups could work together and then we could get down to macing shit.

Normies think he's lame. He only flies, he has big ass wings, he hits stuff. On the surface he can seem very lame, and when it comes to comics that's all people are willing to look at.

>>93455830
Thanagarian and dead.

>>93455830
He's Hawkman.

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So why cant Hawkman/Hawkgirl have bulletproof wings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp6aKCE3jSc

>>93455634
>can't fly
>can't be monogamous
>can't do WE WUZ KANGZ AND ANCIENT AYYYLIUMS AN SHIET
>doesn't hit people in the face with a spiky mace

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>Prophet
>Barbarian in Space

Just hire Brandon Graham to do a hawk man comic. that would be a hit

>>93453568
He has Cyclops' head on the back of his head?

Hawkman to me comes straight from that 30s-50s pulp sci-fi sensibility that Adam Strange does. Does he predate the Hawkmen in classic Flash Gordon? Because those are his obvious contemporaries. That crystal spires and togas vision of the future, all art deco rockets and hip holstered laser pistols. The Egyptian reincarnation stuff is just another layer of pulpy goodness on top of that.

My point is DC should make a Hawkman/Adam Strange buddy space cop book.

>>93454382
>stay true to the core and property works
The biggest problem is creators who want to live in their version of the past and destabilizing an already established lore for that. Hawkman was working well and great with Hawkworld, but editors couldn't decide which version of Hawkman they wanted.

>>93456010
Graham won't work for the big two.

>>93455720
This is just factually incorrect.

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>>93456075
They kind of did several years ago with the Rann-Thanagar War

>>93455720
>>93456238
John's solution was to kill Shayera, claim Katar was just a past life and then invent a thousand different extra convoluted powers to Nth metal so it can do almost anything for any result whatsoever.

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>>93456075
But what would you call such a book...

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This should've been kept the Canon origin.

>>93456075
That's pretty much the only guy they will pair him with fir the last decade

>>93453568
Pretty sure Snyder will be writing an ongoing for him after Metal.

>>93456075
They just recently did a Hawkman and Adam strange team up book.

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>>93453568
Hawkman's only good villain is Psycho-Pirate, who gets used more than Hawkman himself these days.

Shit rogue gallery. Prove me wrong. You can't!

>>93456263
>Rann-Thanagar
Every fucking time this gets brought up I instantly fall asleep. It's never ever been interesting.

>>93456075
>a Hawkman/Adam Strange buddy space cop book.
That was what The Death of Hawkman was.
Pretty decent too.

>>93456183
Just sell Hawkman to Rob Liefeld, and Rob can pay Brandon to do it.

>>93456631
>I only read zee Batman because he has zee coolest villains!

Gentleman Ghost is where it's at though.

>>93455634
Superman is also better than Batman at absolutely everything Batman does. What's your point?

>>93457034
>posts Superman villains
>YOU ONLY READ BATMAN HUR
You're dumb.

>>93456631
>Byth
>Shadow-Thief
>Gentleman Ghost
>Attila (the psychic war machine, not the hun)
>Fel Andar
>Thanagar itself

Just to name a few of his good antogonists off the top of my head.

>>93457076
You forgot to list The Monocle. He's the very best and it must be embarrassing for you to forget him. No REAL Hawkman fan would leave him out.

How to make Hawkman work?

Keep Thanagar as far the fuck away from him as possible.

Focus on his various past lives as well as his current, and possibly future (ala Aaron's God Butcher Arc in Thor).

A big part of what you push is nostalgia, particularly Hawkman's nostalgia, and his inability to properly adapt at any time, but him attempting to find the familiar in little things in life which are universal.

Also, lots of Hawkmen hitting people in the face with a mace!

>>93457187
Sounds good. But can he carry an ongoing in current year?

>>93457187
I thing they just need to not make every reboot just another way to explain his origin over again.

Have him show up and after six to nine issues, that's when someone outright asks him where he came from and it's just a brief flashback.

>>93456631
Johns tried to do a Rogues thing with some of the really obscure guys like Fadeaway Man, Lion Mane, Hummingbird, and Lasso.

Fadeaway Man was okay, the rest were mostly pointless. Lasso and Hummingbird did not even have a reason to be around other than they call themselves villains.

>>93457187
His design is bitchin so get him a good artist

Give him special privilege of acknowledging the crazy multiverse by virtue of his messed up origin

Use all types of medieval weapons

>>93457048
Superman's parents are even more deader than Batman's. Sometimes he lost a whole second set of parents after the first.

>>93457124
And Purple Pilgrim! He was the greatest enemy Hawkman ever faced. He had a gun. A GUN!!!

>>93457076
>>93457124
Matter Master is actually a pretty scary villain for a guy who swings a mace into things.

He accidentally turned someone else into Hawkman just becasue he wanted someone to try and stop him.

>>93455830
That's complicated because Dark Days are important here and they just started. I think we will get the golden age one now (and alien one will stay dead for some time).

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>>93457316
Why am I laughing?

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I just want more Gentleman Ghost, is that so much to ask?

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>>93456458
You mean Shiera, right? Because Johns wasn't the one who killed Shayera.

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>>93457246
Depends. How well does Snyder sell on anything that isn't Batman?

>>93453568

Others have sort of pointed it out. He's way under-powered for a DC superhero.

>>93457846
Snyder is actually bringing Hawkman back during the summer event, so i guess we'll find out.

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>>93453568
DC seems to have a plan.

DC killed off the nu52 version in Death of Hawkman, to reintroduce the pre-FP version in Dark Days/Metal event.
Johns Hawkman is re-released in a trade format, just before the event begins.
The main characters are Batman, Hawkman, and the Justice League, which show up in the end of the Captain Atom mini just before the event starts.
Have loads of Bat Wank, so casuals will read the Dark Days/Metal.
Have Snyder write the event because he's the only star writer besides Johns. Also, because Snyder wants to write Hawkman.

>>93453568
He's just as old and dull as Captain America is. Unfortunately not even a movie could help this guy.

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>>93454925
So make Hawkman like Karate Kid? I actually wouldn't mind it.

>>93456631
It's ironic to use Superman's rogue gallery as an example, which is just as lame except for a few like Luthor and Mxyzptlk.

>>93457187
Reeee
Hawkman's best comic was set on Thanagar and his best run focused on him as a Thanagarian cop. Keep in mind that they're also the only good Hawkman comics to exist.
These meta takes are shit, unless Morrison is writing them.

>>93453568
Just make him space Dredd.

>>93456458
Which was great, imo.

Someone please explain to me what the appeal of Hawkman is exactly. Like why would people read Hawkman over literally anything else.

>>93458842
Thanagar/Rann shit killed non-lantern cosmic DC, both planets need to banned from being referenced for a couple of decades

>>93457057
It's a quote

>>93455141
Also, argue with Ollie.

>>93455634
I prefer Batman, but this is just not true.

>>93460783
He likes to hit liberals with his mace.

New 52 Hawkman was one of shittiest things i've read. He's a boring character and no one gives a fuck about the nth metal.

>>93456498
Snyder will be writing challengers of the unknown.

>>93453568
What Hawkman comics are worth reading?

>>93461071
It was a pretty good move to just kill him off so we can start fresh, Leifeld absolutely wrecked what promise that book actually had.

Taking him back to his roots and adding in some heavy metal elements sounds like a great direction to take the Hawks in.

>>93461114
Pretty much all the original Carter Hall stuff is a really fun read, they swap around what weapons they use often so they come up with all manner of different ways to save the day.

And for Katar Hol then the Hawkworld mini-series and the series that followed are fantastic, Hawkworld is what made me really like this character.

>>93456458

Huh? Katar wasn't a past life, Johns made a specific point to mention that Carter saw Katar's soul before he came back to life. They were different people.

>>93461114
Volume 4. Starts by Robinson/Johns/Morales

You know, I've had the idea for 3 comics for the longest time; one of them features Adam Strange deciding to travel around the universe encountering differeny civilizations, lifeforms and planets with a small crew of 3 people besides him, one of them Hawkman. Kinda like a Star Trek: TOS kind of thing.

>>93453568
Someone post the screencap explain his continuity.

>>93461114
These ones:

>>93461114
JSA and Hawkmen by Geoff Johns.

>>93461114
Hawkworld mini as well as the ongoing.

Because he's one of those characters that survives through having an iconic image, but not an iconic character. Ask anybody who Hawkman is, and even people who've barely glanced at a comic can probably tell you 'dude with wings and a mace'. Having a look, not a character, means writers don't have a baseline to work with. You can't write Superman as an alien policeman, or scholar of the ancient Egyptians, or conservationist with funky metal, because that's not who Superman is.

Likewise, you can't develop a decent rogues gallery without a baseline, because good villains stand in opposition to the hero's inherent qualities. Superman stands for helping and guiding people, Darkseid is a despot. Superman gives of himself freely and doesn't care what others think, Lex Luthor wants power, control, and prestige. Superman is the ideal immigrant, contributing to society and adapting to the culture - Brainiac invades, steals the parts he wants for himself, and destroys the rest. Hawkman... has Shadow Thief, who exists mainly for the same reason Hawkman does - a living shadow is a powerful visual.

>>93461556
>Darkseid
>is a rogue of Superman
>>>/reddit/
Also that post is what's wrong with capeshit.

>>93461556
Yeah, because your post was so fucking constructive.

Maybe Darkseid wasn't designed to be a Superman rogue originally, but he's sure as hell part of his villains list now. (Though he shared connections to Superman from the start through his debut in the Jimmy Olsen comics, which dealt with a lot of Kirby's Fourth World work.) Most people today know him as an antagonist of Superman or the Justice League.

>>93461556
>>93462032
>Namefag
>Cant even link/quote right
>Still pushing "Darkseid is a Superman Rogue" even though thats fucking wrong and tries to use causal consensus to back claim
>Reddit spacing
>"The Hero is only good as his villain" meme
Fucking christ, do everyone a favor and fuck off

>>93461556
>I don't know anything about this character
>Therefor no one knows anything about this character

If you had actually read the thread you would have seen some of his actual rogues gallery, most of whom fit into you neat little box of being in opposition to the hero's qualities.

Hell, look no further than Byth. Byth was essentially the embodiment of Thanagar's predatory and decadent qualities that Katar had rebelled against.

>>93453568
Why are you saying that like they're doing something wrong with Hawkman?
Do you read Hawkman? Or just talking out ya ass.

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>>93453568
I don't know, making him DC's version of Wolverine was fun for a little while.

>>93457528
He's in Suicide Squad

>>93457846
He probably gonna be part of Snyder's Challenger's of the Unknown book with Kubert.

>>93462125
Oh, no, I misclicked and used spacing, how terrifying.
And Darkseid IS a Superman rogue. Whine and bitch about it all you like, doesn't make it less true. Or you could try and provide some reason he isn't, but that'd actually require effort instead of just shitposting.

>>93462138
I read the thread, but that list of rogues is NOT impressive. Gentleman Ghost gets a decent runner-up status IF you stick to his link to Hawkman/Hawkgirl's past lives - something that hasn't really been true for at least a decade.

Byth? There might be some usable visuals there from the Silver Age incarnation, but his personality's been all over the map. Attila was a throwaway robot villain that probably wouldn't even be worth recycling the name. Fel Andar was a continuity patch, and contributed more to Hawkman's continuity hell than anything else.

Psycho-Pirate was more of a JSA villain than Hawkman specifically, but he might actually be a good fit if a skilled writer wanted to use him as a parallel to Hawkman's ridiculously convoluted past. I doubt DC would want to delve back into that willingly, though.

I haven't seen anyone mention Onimar Synn yet - he had a decently interesting background, linked to Thanagar and Nth Metal, along with a mystical origin that works well with Hawkman's semi-mystic status.

>>93454925
Seriously he should be a better fighter than Batman or Wonder Woman

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Wait so is new Hawkman a dumb savage that solves all his problems by bashing them to death with his mace?

Because I'd read that

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>MFW they can't make Hawkman black because then he'd be a negative stereotype
>MFW if they made him Asian then he'd be Mongolian as fuck

They should just focus more on wing stuff. Let him shoot razor sharp feathers and let him make wind.

>>93464223
They made Zauriel black from bleach white. Though, yeah it be too much on the nose.

Going on the very little i know about Hawkman, I think they should get him and hawkgirl to go around space fighting space pirates, make it brutal and throw in some love and deeper elements due to them reincarnating. They could even do stories based off of previous incarnations

>>93453568
I read that Morrison wanted to call his Angel, Zauriel, Hawkman, but DC didn't let him because it would make Hawkman even more convoluted.
I wish it happened. I want them to just spitroast Hawkman's story. Just absolutely throttle it.

>>93458769
Nah his Rogue's Gallery is leagues better. Doesn't come close to Batman's but the only one anywhere who's even near Batman's is Spider-Man.

>>93460783
>Doesn't cry over mommy and daddy like Bruce
>Doesn't angst over being an alien like Clark
>Isn't a hypocrite like Diana
He's just trying to do his job.

>>93461073
Maybe he'll do both, if they're both monthly.

>>93456631
>supermanbadguygroupshot.jpg
>Darkseid

DARKSEID IS NOT A SUPERMAN VILLAIN YOU CASUAL NORMIE SCUM!!!!! HAVEN'T YOU EVER READ A FUCKING COMIC IN YOUR GODDAMN LIFE. YOU MAKE ME FUCKING SICK. I HOPE JACK KIRBY COMES BACK AND KILLS YOUR WHOLE FAMILY!!!!! GO SUCK BATCOCKANDGETTHEFLYINGFUCKOFFMYFUCKINGBOARDRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>93464950
Oh right that was Thanos sorry

>>93456631
Shadow Thief
Byth
Gentleman Ghost
are some decent bad guys who could easily be used. Didn't even realize Psycho Pirate was a Hawk Man baddie

>>93456183
Okay D.C. gives hawk man to Benjamin Mara and it's a hyper violent revenge satire

>>93457294
Fadeaway Man is just a cool ass name and the Cloak of Cagliostro is a neat power/accessory

>>93456075
They constantly team them up because of Rann and Thanagar antics.

>>93463524
Saying Darkseid is Superman rogue is just as stupid and wrong as saying Solomon Grundy and Deadshot are Batman rogues. Sorry to say that the DCAU isnt gospel

>>93464846
He was basically invented to be the Hawk for the JLA since at the time all Hawkmen were retconned into insanity and DC just threw their hands in the air and gave up.

Zauriel at least addressed the whole Hawkman not being on the same level as Superman, Wonderwoman etc. He was basically magic Superman with a fire sword and a Blackbolt scream.

Even then Zauriel was dropped pretty easily on and has been ignored by DC ever since.